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Author Topic: 10 dead 20 wounded in school shooting  (Read 21405 times)

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« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2015, 03:56 »
+5
My two cents on that issue,

The numbers are enough self explaining:

All countries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Only developed countries:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2012/12/14/chart-the-u-s-has-far-more-gun-related-killings-than-any-other-developed-country/

Why in the States dies this impressive amount of people by a firearm? Because there are many firearms, and it's too easy to get one and kill some one.

PD: I live in Spain, where it's almost imposible to find someone width a Gun (except police officers and security services or some criminal). Of course you can get killed by some hunter how owns a shotgun, but statistically it's very improbable.

Condolences to those families who are suffering right know.


« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2015, 03:59 »
0
...... This is not just an American thing but considering the US population is ten times bigger there are ten times more guns.

Okay another example. I get that you don't know the facts and that is fine, you don't have to especially if you live in the UK so aren't involved in the debate. But why do you feel the need to comment if you don't know what you are talking about? I guess that's just the internet for you.

There are somewhere around 2 million guns in the UK and around 300 million in the US, that's many times the number per capita. Pretty much more than any other country in the world. You are about 40x more likely to be shot to death in the US than in the UK.

It's fine to not know that and admit it. It's not fine to just keep spouting nonsense for the sake of it. It doesn't reflect well on you and it wastes everyone's time.

Amen to that. ;D ;D ;D

« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2015, 04:38 »
+1
"Read my post properly." Oh the irony :'(

« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2015, 05:28 »
+3
Given the deaths of all thoses babies at Sandy Hook changed absolutely nothing, we can expect to see this continue for decades if not centuries.

Whether you roll out all the statistics and the issues and the rights and the amendments to condone or condemn - the bodies all roll in the same direction. Sad.

fritz

  • I love Tom and Jerry music

« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2015, 08:47 »
+1
Yes and in many European countries, when a burglar comes through the window waving a gun,  you are supposed to use harsh language against his gun. God forbid if you should hit him over the head with something. He can then sue YOU for grevious bodily harm.

No matter how one twist and turn this question in the end nobody wins.
That's not true

« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2015, 09:38 »
+1
No wonder! As long as an ordinary US citizen can go to the shop and legally buy gun we will see gun shooting!
In Europe or in most of the countries you'll have to get permission from police and have to explain WHY for god sake you need weapon. At the end maybe you'll get permission for a limited time to have weapon.

I can walk into a gun store and buy a gun any time I want to. No real limits on the number I can own.

However, up here (Canada) owning a gun is a privilege not a right. So we aren't quite as obsessed about them. I feel vastly safer here than I would anywhere in the US. We generally don't have people breaking into houses up here so sitting on your couch with a gun waiting to splash some crackhead coming through the window seems like a pretty poor use of time.

There is a culture in the states that facilitates these shootings. Any sort of restriction on gun use and ownership (note, I'm not even bringing up bans as the lobbiests would have you think is the only option being proposed) is seen as some sort of massive oppression by the government. But people still wear seatbelts and stop at red lights because they (the smart ones at least) know it makes them safer.

This will continue. It is apparently acceptable to the majority in the US. Sacrifice a few every few weeks/months just to make sure that the rights of some people are nice and shiny and polished.

Have fun with that.

« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2015, 09:42 »
+1
It is apparently acceptable to the majority in the US. Sacrifice a few every few weeks/months just to make sure that the rights of some people are nice and shiny and polished.

Yep. You just nailed the problem squarely on its head. Makes no sense whatsoever, but the gun lobby has so successfully targeted pro-gun control politicians that they've turned the rest into pitiful blobs of jelly. It's sad, but as you say, it will continue.

Shelma1

« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2015, 10:25 »
+6
Actually, it's not acceptable to the majority of Americans. Most Americans do NOT own a gun. Gun owners are in the minority. The reason there are 88 guns per 100 people is that the gun-owning minority owns multiple guns per person, one for each of their many trigger fingers, I guess. The vast majority of Americans would like to see more stringent background checks. And some of us would like to see most guns destroyed.

« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2015, 10:28 »
+4
Actually, it's not acceptable to the majority of Americans. Most Americans do NOT own a gun. Gun owners are in the minority. The reason there are 88 guns per 100 people is that the gun-owning minority owns multiple guns per person, one for each of their many trigger fingers, I guess. The vast majority of Americans would like to see more stringent background checks. And some of us would like to see most guns destroyed.

Shelma is absolutely right, and I should not have agreed earlier that the majority of US citizens are okay with the situation. They're not. But I think they're shell-shocked (forgive the pun) at this point, because it seems nothing can be done about it, given our current political gridlock.

Sooner or later, reason will prevail. It just doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon.

« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2015, 10:35 »
+2
Check out this link to an article in today's Washington Post that exposes the politics of the situation:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/02/why-the-gun-debate-wont-change-after-the-oregon-shooting/

« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2015, 11:20 »
+6
Firearms are a religion. Those that worship them cannot be convinced to change their beliefs no matter how detrimental that worship is to their wellbeing.

« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2015, 09:15 »
+1
Actually, it's not acceptable to the majority of Americans. Most Americans do NOT own a gun. Gun owners are in the minority. The reason there are 88 guns per 100 people is that the gun-owning minority owns multiple guns per person, one for each of their many trigger fingers, I guess. The vast majority of Americans would like to see more stringent background checks. And some of us would like to see most guns destroyed.
Then that vast majority of Americans should be using their democratic right to uphold their apparent values.
Make it happen.

Politicians wouldn't be scared of a lobby that represents a small minority if they knew for certain that a large majority support them.

I think that even if alot of people don't own guns they still bristle at the idea of a government limiting their perceived rights under an amendment to the constitution. So, in a way, they do support this stuff. Just slightly indirectly.

« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2015, 09:59 »
+6
No but your point amalgamates to the same old philosophy " ban all firearms"  that argument have been beaten to death and it will never happen, simple as that.
Its no point getting uptight about, not worth it. Just when the anti-gun squad comes along with the same old argument nobody takes any notice anymore.
Instead they should get all the lunatics off the streets. I mean this is not just somebody waking up one morning and decide to shoot people.

Get lunatics off the streets? Define lunatic. Is a depressed individual lunatic? Is an angry individual lunatic? This has never been an exact science.

And what's next?

Being crazy has always been the excuse used by dictators to "take off the streets", lock away and silence their oponents.

Owning guns is only a hobby, despite all the old arguments revolving around an obsolete constitutional ammendment.
Defending private property and human life are among the few duties to be delegated to a government.
If I have to trade off civil liberties in order to defend the unalienable right to human life, I would rather give away a hobby, instead of the freedom to "walk the streets" or the freedoms of the first ammendment. Owning guns is only a right, not an unalienable right, like human life.

The unalianable right to human life trumps the right to enjoy a hobby.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 10:34 by Zero Talent »

Shelma1

« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2015, 10:05 »
+3
Actually, it's not acceptable to the majority of Americans. Most Americans do NOT own a gun. Gun owners are in the minority. The reason there are 88 guns per 100 people is that the gun-owning minority owns multiple guns per person, one for each of their many trigger fingers, I guess. The vast majority of Americans would like to see more stringent background checks. And some of us would like to see most guns destroyed.
Then that vast majority of Americans should be using their democratic right to uphold their apparent values.
Make it happen.

Politicians wouldn't be scared of a lobby that represents a small minority if they knew for certain that a large majority support them.

I think that even if alot of people don't own guns they still bristle at the idea of a government limiting their perceived rights under an amendment to the constitution. So, in a way, they do support this stuff. Just slightly indirectly.

No, I don't think people are bristling at putting more restrictions on gun ownership. Why not use the same restrictions as we put on cars? License, insurance, registration. Points and impounding for breaking laws, fines, mandatory inspections.

And when was the last time the folks in Congress actually represented the people who voted for them, rather than special interests, lobbies, and corporations? Plus, the NRA absolutely will spend millions pillorying anyone running for office who speaks out against them, quashing their chances at being elected.

« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2015, 10:46 »
0
Funny this conversation as it carries on. Here is a nutter shooting people and the main issue seems to be his gun??  right now in Europe there are tens of thousands of refugees, innocent women and children and around, 70 people a day are dying and that without any guns, knifes, crossbows, canons, bombs. They are just dying because countries don't wish to help, politics, political murder without a gun.------------------------------------------not a single word about that....some contrast isn't it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 10:49 by weymouth »

ShadySue

« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2015, 10:57 »
+6
You could have started your own thread on that issue.

Funny this conversation as it carries on. Here is a nutter shooting people and the main issue seems to be his gun??  right now in Europe there are tens of thousands of refugees, innocent women and children and around, 70 people a day are dying and that without any guns, knifes, crossbows, canons, bombs. They are just dying because countries don't wish to help, politics, political murder without a gun.------------------------------------------not a single word about that....some contrast isn't it.

Shelma1

« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2015, 11:05 »
+4
Funny this conversation as it carries on. Here is a nutter shooting people and the main issue seems to be his gun??  right now in Europe there are tens of thousands of refugees, innocent women and children and around, 70 people a day are dying and that without any guns, knifes, crossbows, canons, bombs. They are just dying because countries don't wish to help, politics, political murder without a gun.------------------------------------------not a single word about that....some contrast isn't it.

The refugee crisis is awful. But more than 80 people are killed per day in the U.S. every year, year after year, by guns. More than 30,000 people per year...more than a quarter million over the last decade. It's a daily crisis here and has been for a long time.

« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2015, 11:05 »
0
No, no point. I live in London but I still find it strange that as soon as something drastic happens in America everyone starts pointing the finger at them,  as if we Europeans should know any better, which we certainly do NOT.

Now had this lunatic walked around with a giant Bowie-knife slashing people we wouldn't have heard two words about it. The gun is the issue here, not 10 corpses, not their families but the gun. Sad!

« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2015, 11:13 »
0
Funny this conversation as it carries on. Here is a nutter shooting people and the main issue seems to be his gun??  right now in Europe there are tens of thousands of refugees, innocent women and children and around, 70 people a day are dying and that without any guns, knifes, crossbows, canons, bombs. They are just dying because countries don't wish to help, politics, political murder without a gun.------------------------------------------not a single word about that....some contrast isn't it.

The refugee crisis is awful. But more than 80 people are killed per day in the U.S. every year, year after year, by guns. More than 30,000 people per year...more than a quarter million over the last decade. It's a daily crisis here and has been for a long time.

yeah but we are talking between 70-100 people PER/DAY here!  children starving, decease, infections, viruses, stress. My brother is down there right now as a physician, he calls it murder by torture.

« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2015, 11:15 »
+4


Now had this lunatic walked around with a giant Bowie-knife slashing people we wouldn't have heard two words about it. The gun is the issue here, not 10 corpses, not their families but the gun. Sad!

Do you really believe that? You seem to have very selective vision of what is reported on the news......and when was the last time someone managed to kill TEN people with a knife in a single incident.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 11:23 by Pauws99 »

« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2015, 11:47 »
0


Now had this lunatic walked around with a giant Bowie-knife slashing people we wouldn't have heard two words about it. The gun is the issue here, not 10 corpses, not their families but the gun. Sad!

Do you really believe that? You seem to have very selective vision of what is reported on the news......and when was the last time someone managed to kill TEN people with a knife in a single incident.


Oh boy! How old are you? just turned 18?   I was sort of speaking metaphorically you see. Now use Google and find out what that means.... Sigh!

Shelma1

« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2015, 12:14 »
+4
No, no point. I live in London but I still find it strange that as soon as something drastic happens in America everyone starts pointing the finger at them,  as if we Europeans should know any better, which we certainly do NOT.

Now had this lunatic walked around with a giant Bowie-knife slashing people we wouldn't have heard two words about it. The gun is the issue here, not 10 corpses, not their families but the gun. Sad!

But you DO know better. There are far fewer gun deaths in every other developed country in the world than in the U.S. Far, far fewer. Because the rest of the developed world takes guns seriously and has much more strict regulations about them.

The gun is the issue because, as I said, more than 30,000 people die every year here from guns. If we enacted laws similar to Australia's, for example, we could probably cut that by 90%. That's tens of thousands of lives saved every year.

We're accepting 10,000 Syrian refugees, BTW.


« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2015, 12:26 »
+1
Oh dear there is nothing metaphorical about what you said. It is totally irrelevant whether I am 18 or 80.

In the UK there is a huge amount of concern about knife crime but I guess you haven't noticed it in your bubble (metaphor)

« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2015, 12:30 »
0
Oh dear there is nothing metaphorical about what you said. It is totally irrelevant whether I am 18 or 80.

In the UK there is a huge amount of concern about knife crime but I guess you haven't noticed it in your bubble (metaphor)

yes, yes, now move on.

« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2015, 12:31 »
+1
No, no point. I live in London but I still find it strange that as soon as something drastic happens in America everyone starts pointing the finger at them,  as if we Europeans should know any better, which we certainly do NOT.

Now had this lunatic walked around with a giant Bowie-knife slashing people we wouldn't have heard two words about it. The gun is the issue here, not 10 corpses, not their families but the gun. Sad!

But you DO know better. There are far fewer gun deaths in every other developed country in the world than in the U.S. Far, far fewer. Because the rest of the developed world takes guns seriously and has much more strict regulations about them.

The gun is the issue because, as I said, more than 30,000 people die every year here from guns. If we enacted laws similar to Australia's, for example, we could probably cut that by 90%. That's tens of thousands of lives saved every year.

We're accepting 10,000 Syrian refugees, BTW.

yes you are quite correct.


 

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