Quote from: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 13:20

I read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html
According to the New York Times, since Musk's arrival on Twitter, the number of images of African-Americans on the network has increased by 3,876 times per day, homosexuals - by 3,964 times per day, and the number of anti-Semitic posts has increased by 61% in two weeks.

The accounts of ISIS and QAnon (an ultra-right community of conspiracy theorists in the United States) have been leaked again on Twitter.

Imran Ahmed, executive director of the Center to Counter Digital Hate, wrote: "Musk is sending a signal to all racists, misogynists and homophobes that they can go back to Twitter and go about their business in peace."

Twitter is a company that does not block Russian propaganda accounts, profiles of politicians, war criminals and their aggressive content.

Personally, I have a huge problem with Elon Musk anyway.

But where is your problem with African Americans and homosexuals? And why do you equate these groups of people with anti-Semites or ISIS or QAnon?

The article is talking about an increase of slurs, not images, against black Americans, Jews and gay men.

Quote from: Wilm on May 01, 2023, 15:01

But where is your problem with African Americans and homosexuals? And why do you equate these groups of people with anti-Semites or ISIS or QAnon?

I have nothing to do with it. I briefly quoted what they write in the article, the link to which I gave. All these questions should be asked to Musk.

Okay, sorry, Zero Talent cleared up my thoughts.

I read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html
According to the New York Times, since Musk's arrival on Twitter, the increase of slurs of African-Americans on the network by 3,876 times per day, homosexuals - by 3,964 times per day, and the number of anti-Semitic posts has increased by 61% in two weeks.

The accounts of ISIS and QAnon (an ultra-right community of conspiracy theorists in the United States) have been leaked again on Twitter.

Imran Ahmed, executive director of the Center to Counter Digital Hate, wrote: "Musk is sending a signal to all racists, misogynists and homophobes that they can go back to Twitter and go about their business in peace."

Twitter is a company that does not block Russian propaganda accounts, profiles of politicians, war criminals and their aggressive content.

I think the argument for/against free speech is an interesting one. When Musk first started with his free speech stance on Twitter, he was fiercely attacked on Twitter (probably still is), and one of those commentors said to him "you don't understand the 1st Amendment".

So I looked up the USA first amendment and some scholars said: the Government cannot interfere with your right to free speech, religion, free press, etc.** But if there's no government involved the first amendment does not apply.



Within the American legal system, free speech does not apply if it is harmful to others. As per the recent Alex Jones trial.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-reaches-verdict-alex-jones-pay-sandy-hook/story?id=91399930



Then there's the existential argument, which Musk is trying to uphold. However, there are still major problems with this as you have outlined.



I like the way Leaf runs this forum, we are all given the right to say whatever we like, but if you cause harm or attack others, you are banned, or your posts are deleted.


......


** This seems to apply to the current case of Disney vs DeSantis. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

Quote from: Annie on May 01, 2023, 19:52

So I looked up the USA first amendment and some scholars said: the Government cannot interfere with your right to free speech, religion, free press, etc. But if there's no government involved the first amendment does not apply.**

Of course, many don't understand that the 1st amendment only applies to the government, not private entities.

Old Twitter had all the right to deny whomever they wanted the "right"
to express themselves on their private platform, including an acting US president (let me see that in russia, please), the same way Musk has the right to host whomever he likes or thinks is good for his business.

The 1st Amendment only comes into the picture if the conspiracy (also promoted by Musk) claiming that the government was behind those suspensions is proven true.

I'm sure that the old Twitter worked with the FBI, like many other communication companies do (e.g. Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, FB, Google, etc). But from this to coercion by the government and a breach of the 1st Amendment, is a (very) long way.

Old Twitter thought they had a business interest to limit hate speech because that would scare away advertisers, while Musk thinks this is not an issue, betting that a controversial Twitter will draw a bigger audience and the advertisers will follow.

Thank you! Some very important points there.

And of course, the big advertisers will always shy away from harmful or negative commentary or behaviour. As was seen on Fox with Bill O'Reilly and Tucker Carlson.

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 14:59

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 29, 2023, 06:50

Yes, but what about....

Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 16:06

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 

Maybe I have become numb. I sure have gotten more egocentric. In the sense that I tend to care what happens to my family and less about the rest of humanity. I don't see that much difference in wrong doing between Russia and USA. I don't understand that suffering on one place on earth should be more grave than another place. I see countries playing dangerous war games. I don't wan't to repeat myself here but sovereign countries have been invaded by both super powers. If that is your red line then you should at least agree with me that in the last decades both have been completely wrong. I don't think that the US government really cares about Ukraine. I do think they care about Russia and what it is costing them.
And Ukraine is not one people. You have multiple ethnicities. Why would there have been a civil war for ten years if it wasn't? All because of Russia's intimidation? It doesn't really make sense to hold up that argument.
Why were the Minsk accords broken by Ukraine? Why not split the country in two and each side chooses their destination and end this war? We did it in Yuogoslavia, right? It's not that the borders of Ukraine are real, they were drawn up. Split the country up along the Dnjepr and everybody lives their lives happy on each side they want. By slowly dropping weapons in this fight you will only increase suffering longer.
There will never be peace or you have to oust all ethnic russians and so called traitors, but then you have robbed people of their land as well.

Edit: Maybe we should let Stoker decide (he can't read this anyway ) but I am sure he will just nuke Russia and doesn't think about the consequences. But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 30, 2023, 17:52

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 14:59

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 29, 2023, 06:50

Yes, but what about....

Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 16:06

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 

Why were the Minsk accords broken by Ukraine?

Where does the information come from that Ukraine has violated the Minsk Agreement?

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 30, 2023, 17:52

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 14:59

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 29, 2023, 06:50

Yes, but what about....

Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 16:06

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 

But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.

On September 11, 2001, terrorists started a war against the democratic world and killed many people in the US.
Axis of evil: Iraq - Iran - North Korea - Russia - China. These are all countries with a fascist regime.
The US and allies brought down the regime in Iraq. Now Ukraine is fighting for the entire civilized world against Russia.

Most likely a false flag operation.

Quote from: SVH on May 02, 2023, 12:36

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 30, 2023, 17:52

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 14:59

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 29, 2023, 06:50

Yes, but what about....

Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 16:06

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 

Why were the Minsk accords broken by Ukraine?

Where does the information come from that Ukraine has violated the Minsk Agreement?

Zelensky admitted himself it in a 'Der Spiegel' interview. But it is general knowledge the Minsk agreements were never implemented by Ukraine. https://archive.is/Q5Eol

This is impossible because:
2022
8:33 p.m.: Russian President Vladimir Putin called Ukraine a "historic Russian territory" in a televised address to the nation Monday night. The country is "an integral part of its own history," the head of state said. Ukraine has no tradition of statehood, he added. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he said, put Russia in a difficult position. In its aftermath, he said, it was a mistake to allow Ukraine and other Soviet republics to become independent. "We gave these republics the right to leave the union without conditions," Putin said. "This is simply madness."

It is not about eastern Ukraine at all, but about all of Ukraine - and many other now independent states of the former Soviet Union.

In this respect, what you write cannot be a solution.

+100
Russian propagandists have not yet had time to change the manuals. Russia is occupying and annexing foreign territories, but Russian trolls continue to tell that there is a civil war in Ukraine.
I will say this, the Russian empire must be destroyed and all occupied peoples should be given freedom. Russians should live only within the borders of the Muscovite state of the 16th century.
It is a pity that the forum does not ban trolls who write Russian propaganda here.

Of course it's not a fact.

What is weird is that explosion was documented by a couple of leaked russian CCTV footages (is it that easy?), the russians immediately jumped to conclusions and blamed the Ukrainians, calling it a Putin assasination attempt (because he is still working at 2:30 am?), that explosion was more like fireworks rather than something meant to destroy and kill... and what makes it even weirder is that (also on your video) we can see two people climbing the Kremlin roof, just before the explosion.

This can very well be either an amateur attempt to damage the Kremlin's roof (by Ukrainians or by some russian opposition), an air defense penetration attempt meant to humiliate the russians (with what purpose? For the memes, just to troll them?), or a false flag operation by the russians, designed to produce no damage but to justify future actions.
We will see.

Quote from: SVH on May 03, 2023, 16:06

Quote from: Wilm on May 02, 2023, 16:56

Quote from: SVH on May 02, 2023, 12:36

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 30, 2023, 17:52

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 14:59

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 29, 2023, 06:50

Yes, but what about....

Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

Quote from: SVH on April 30, 2023, 16:06

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 

But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.

Exactly. Yugoslavia did not work, neither will Ukraine as a whole. That was my point. Split it up like we did with Yugoslavia. I am not saying the eastern part should be part of Russia but give it, it's own country, which then can relate to which ever country it likes, as well as the western part. That will be the end solution to this war and stop the unnecessary loss of lives.

This is impossible because:

2022
8:33 p.m.: Russian President Vladimir Putin called Ukraine a "historic Russian territory" in a televised address to the nation Monday night. The country is "an integral part of its own history," the head of state said. Ukraine has no tradition of statehood, he added. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he said, put Russia in a difficult position. In its aftermath, he said, it was a mistake to allow Ukraine and other Soviet republics to become independent. "We gave these republics the right to leave the union without conditions," Putin said. "This is simply madness."

It is not about eastern Ukraine at all, but about all of Ukraine - and many other now independent states of the former Soviet Union.

In this respect, what you write cannot be a solution.

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.