Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 132551 times)

stoker2014 · « **Reply #775 on:** July 13, 2023, 16:28 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 13, 2023, 16:24

What matters is what the international community and even russia recognized as official borders, before a mad man with with imperial ambitions decided to kill his way through.

Russian rashists do not want to understand this. And then the same zastavkin shouts here on the forum that US sanctions are applied to him, that he is not given money and that he is not to blame for anything.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #776 on:** July 13, 2023, 16:30 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on July 13, 2023, 06:34

for example that Ukraine would be better off if Republicans were in charge in the US.

Depends on which Republicans. I'm not campaigning for the Republicans here on the forum. I just wrote that many Republicans support Ukraine, and this is true.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #777 on:** July 13, 2023, 16:34 »

So, the NATO summit was unsuccessful for Ukraine. Ukraine was not taken into NATO. Everyone is afraid of putin.

NATO countries! Do not be afraid of russia and Russians! Ukraine will protect you all!

stoker2014 · « **Reply #778 on:** July 14, 2023, 05:53 »

There is good news. Ukraine received cluster munition. The number of liquidated Russian terrorists should greatly increase.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-07-13/joe-biden-is-right-to-send-cluster-bombs-to-ukraine

stoker2014 · « **Reply #779 on:** July 14, 2023, 06:36 »

Top 5 Russian Fakes about NATO Summit in Vilnius

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-factcheck/3735520-top-5-russian-fakes-about-nato-summit-in-vilnius.html

stoker2014 · « **Reply #780 on:** July 14, 2023, 07:56 »

The Armed Forces of Ukraine eliminate the Russian infantry fighting vehicle to the sounds of the Russian musical instrument balalaika.
https://t.me/your_country_news/1540
In the statistics of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Russian losses will be counted as eliminated. Or injured?

Zero Talent · « **Reply #781 on:** July 14, 2023, 09:11 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 13, 2023, 16:30

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on July 13, 2023, 06:34
for example that Ukraine would be better off if Republicans were in charge in the US.
Depends on which Republicans. I'm not campaigning for the Republicans here on the forum. I just wrote that many Republicans support Ukraine, and this is true.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s (R-Ga.) amendment to strip $300 million in Ukraine aid from the bill failed in a huge fashion, 341-89.

Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) amendment to prohibit security assistance for Ukraine also failed spectacularly 358-70.

Rep. Andy Ogles’ (R-Tenn.) amendment to strike language extending Lend-Lease authority for Ukraine failed 360-71.

Only thing troubling here is that 70+ Republicans voted for these shameful bills.

So, you have 100% support from the Democrats, the Republicans are pushing anti-Ukraine bills, but you like the Republicans more.

Please stop with the self-harming... $:-\$

stoker2014 · « **Reply #782 on:** July 14, 2023, 09:55 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 14, 2023, 09:11

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 13, 2023, 16:30
Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on July 13, 2023, 06:34
for example that Ukraine would be better off if Republicans were in charge in the US.
Depends on which Republicans. I'm not campaigning for the Republicans here on the forum. I just wrote that many Republicans support Ukraine, and this is true.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s (R-Ga.) amendment to strip $300 million in Ukraine aid from the bill failed in a huge fashion, 341-89.

Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) amendment to prohibit security assistance for Ukraine also failed spectacularly 358-70.

Rep. Andy Ogles’ (R-Tenn.) amendment to strike language extending Lend-Lease authority for Ukraine failed 360-71.

Only thing troubling here is that 70+ Republicans voted for these shameful bills.

So, you have 100% support from the Democrats, the Republicans are pushing anti-Ukraine bills, but you like the Republicans more.

Please stop with the self-harming... $:-\$

All this can be discussed.
For some reason, you and other authors consider all Republicans to be enemies of democracy. At the same time, only a small percentage of Republicans (Trump's wing) vote against Ukraine.
What is 100% Democratic support and how does it manifest itself? This needs to be figured out. I have already written about Democrats like Clinton, Obama, Biden. I am not satisfied with their policy and support for Ukraine. It was under these presidents that catastrophic mistakes were made for Ukraine.
I wrote many times that Ukraine has long needed aviation and long-range missiles. They were not given. So what is the support of the Democrats, in money? And I already wrote about money, money is useless on the battlefield. Democrats do not allow Ukraine to shoot at Russian military facilities in Crimea, and military infrastructure on Russian territory. Democrats tie Ukraine's hands!
Democrats give Ukraine weapons, but only when the Russians are well prepared to repulse these weapons, as a result, the war is constantly dragged out and Ukrainians die every day.
Perhaps the Republicans would have pursued the same policy as the Democrats. It all depends on their leader, who is now Trump (and few people like this leader, and there are reasons for that).
Therefore, it is more correct to say that I am not satisfied with the policy of the Democrats, and I am not campaigning for the Republicans.
From the information that I see, it is the Republicans who are not happy that Biden is providing insufficient military assistance to Ukraine.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #783 on:** July 14, 2023, 10:26 »

Ukraine is conducting military operations according to tactics and strategy as during the First World War. This is the result of the policy of the Democrats. Ukraine is fighting Russians who have aircraft and long-range missiles, and Ukraine does not have this. Yes, at the cost of the lives of Ukrainians, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are slowly moving forward, 100 meters, 500 meters a day. These are all tactics of the First World War. For such tactics, I cannot thank the Democrats.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #784 on:** July 14, 2023, 11:24 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 10:26

Ukraine is conducting military operations according to tactics and strategy as during the First World War. This is the result of the policy of the Democrats. Ukraine is fighting Russians who have aircraft and long-range missiles, and Ukraine does not have this. Yes, at the cost of the lives of Ukrainians, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are slowly moving forward, 100 meters, 500 meters a day. These are all tactics of the First World War. For such tactics, I cannot thank the Democrats.

I understand your nostalgia for the "good ol' days" of the old-school Republicans, like McCain, and I understand your anger with Obama's appeasement attempt when he closed his eyes to putin's annexation of Crimea, etc.

What you fail to understand is that these days are gone.

It has been explained to you that while insufficient, the best deal Ukraine can get today and in the near future comes from Biden's administration and the Democrat party whose elected representatives are 100% behind Ukraine.

It has been explained to you that the post-MAGA GoP is not a conservative party anymore. They are a national-populist party with a strong isolationist doctrine.

It has been explained to you that 44% of the Republican voters are tired of the Ukraine war, and a significantly large cluster of 70+ GoP representatives are listening to their constituents and doubling down on this sentiment, pushing for ALL aid for Ukraine to be stopped.

It has been also explained to you that once Trump will win the nomination, nearly the entirety of Republicans, including those who are currently voting in favor of Ukraine, will fall in line and follow their leader, who proved himself a putin apologist, an isolationist, a liar, an ignoramus ... a moron.

It has been explained to you that when this will happen, the "Ukrainian fatigue" among the GoP electorate will grow stronger, and God forbids, if trump wins the presidency again, Ukraine is doomed.

I advise you to stop dreaming and wake up to the new reality.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #785 on:** July 14, 2023, 12:53 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 14, 2023, 11:24

I advise you to stop dreaming and wake up to the new reality.

The reality under the Democrats is very bad, comparable to death and genocide, which is what is happening in Ukraine.
Why are you writing all this to me, I criticized the Democrats, but I did not promote Trump to the presidency. I will always criticize the Democrats, because there is very, very little sense from them.
If the Republicans ever win, I'll compare. I do not vote for the President of the United States, I am not a US citizen. I can only judge the results of US policy, which I do.

You can talk about something from the outside, you are not a party to the conflict. You can afford forecasts, philosophizing, choosing a political party in the USA.
You do not understand one thing, if the Russians kill you, it will not matter to you whether the Democrats rule in the USA or the Republicans. But you will not be indifferent to the politics of those in power in the United States. Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #786 on:** July 14, 2023, 14:28 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 12:53

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 14, 2023, 11:24
I advise you to stop dreaming and wake up to the new reality.
The reality under the Democrats is very bad, comparable to death and genocide, which is what is happening in Ukraine.
Why are you writing all this to me, I criticized the Democrats, but I did not promote Trump to the presidency. I will always criticize the Democrats, because there is very, very little sense from them.
If the Republicans ever win, I'll compare. I do not vote for the President of the United States, I am not a US citizen. I can only judge the results of US policy, which I do.

You can talk about something from the outside, you are not a party to the conflict. You can afford forecasts, philosophizing, choosing a political party in the USA.
You do not understand one thing, if the Russians kill you, it will not matter to you whether the Democrats rule in the USA or the Republicans. But you will not be indifferent to the politics of those in power in the United States. Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.

You have some serious issues my friend. I would consider getting some help if I were you. You are quite disturbed.
And for everyone here that agrees with all the nonsense and hate Stoker2014 is screaming out please scratch your head once or twice.

Annie2022 · « **Reply #787 on:** July 14, 2023, 20:02 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 12:53

Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.

Hi Stoker. Not ganging up on you, just want to set the record straight. USA Democrats were not in power for the past 30 years. Here is the timeline:

President Clinton (Democrat).
2000. Putin becomes president of Russia. Clinton immediately senses that putin is not to be trusted but his presidency is coming to an end.

President George W Bush (Republican) 2001-2008
- Bush likes Putin and says he can be trusted. His famous line: "I looked into his eyes and could see his soul".
- The first long-range nuclear bombers by Russia
- Russia's devasting cyberattack on Estonia
- Putin attacks Georgia
- Bush does nothing.

President Obama (Democrat)2009-2016
- Obama puts Vice President Joe Biden in charge of foreign affairs in Russia.
- Joe Biden can see through putin and says to him, "I'm looking into your eyes and I don't think you have a soul".
- There is a political uprising of hundreds of thousands of people in Russia against Putin's recent actions. Putin squashes rebellion. Opposition leaders, journalists and anti-corruption campaigners are arrested, disappear, or die mysteriously.
- Putin seizes Crimea.
- Vice President Biden is furious and insists that putin must be stopped. But Biden loses and Obama does nothing.

President Trump (Republican)2017-2020
- Trump sides with putin, says that USA should pull out of Nato, and takes putin's side on Ukrainian issues.

President Joe Biden (Democrat)2021-
- Putin's war on Ukraine.
- Biden sends 76+ billion dollars of financial, humanitarian, military, and weapons aid to Ukraine - despite also having to deal with a post-pandemic economy in USA.

More info here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/

This one is interesting:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/

Looks like Biden has been all along Ukraine's best defense against Putin.

LDV81 · « **Reply #788 on:** July 14, 2023, 21:07 »

Quote from: SVH on July 13, 2023, 14:01

Maybe, if West Ukraine pays for the damages they have inflicted on the East of Ukraine during the 10 year civil war after their coup they staged in 2014.

This illustrates what was going on in eastern Ukraine:

Even Priggy's trolls confirm it:

https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/07/14/victims-of-donbas-genocide-were-paid-actors-prigozhins-fired-trolls-reveal/

Annie2022 · « **Reply #789 on:** July 14, 2023, 22:47 »

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 12:53
Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.

Hi Stoker. Not ganging up on you, just want to set the record straight. USA Democrats were not in power for the past 30 years. Here is the timeline:

President Clinton (Democrat).
2000. Putin becomes president of Russia. Clinton immediately senses that putin is not to be trusted but his presidency is coming to an end.

President George W Bush (Republican) 2001-2008
- Bush likes Putin and says he can be trusted. His famous line: "I looked into his eyes and could see his soul".
- The first long-range nuclear bombers by Russia
- Russia's devasting cyberattack on Estonia
- Putin attacks Georgia
- Bush does nothing.

President Obama (Democrat)2009-2016
- Obama puts Vice President Joe Biden in charge of foreign affairs in Russia.
- Joe Biden can see through putin and says to him, "I'm looking into your eyes and I don't think you have a soul".
- There is a political uprising of hundreds of thousands of people in Russia against Putin's recent actions. Putin squashes rebellion. Opposition leaders, journalists and anti-corruption campaigners are arrested, disappear, or die mysteriously.
- Putin seizes Crimea.
- Vice President Biden is furious and insists that putin must be stopped. But Biden loses and Obama does nothing.

President Trump (Republican)2017-2020
- Trump sides with putin, says that USA should pull out of Nato, and takes putin's side on Ukrainian issues.

President Joe Biden (Democrat)2021-
- Putin's war on Ukraine.
- Biden sends 76+ billion dollars of financial, humanitarian, military, and weapons aid to Ukraine - despite also having to deal with a post-pandemic economy in USA.

More info here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/

This one is interesting:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/

Looks like Biden has been all along Ukraine's best defense against Putin.

Forgot to add:

2000 Clinton (Democrat) but with a Republican Majority Congress

George W Bush - Republican Congress

Barack Obama - First 2 years Democrat congress, then Republican majority in the House

Trump - First 2 years Republican congress, then Democrats in the House

Biden - Republican majority in the House second two years. (Current)

Roscoe · « **Reply #790 on:** July 15, 2023, 04:20 »

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 22:47

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02
Quote from: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 12:53
Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.

Hi Stoker. Not ganging up on you, just want to set the record straight. USA Democrats were not in power for the past 30 years. Here is the timeline:

President Clinton (Democrat).
2000. Putin becomes president of Russia. Clinton immediately senses that putin is not to be trusted but his presidency is coming to an end.

President George W Bush (Republican) 2001-2008
- Bush likes Putin and says he can be trusted. His famous line: "I looked into his eyes and could see his soul".
- The first long-range nuclear bombers by Russia
- Russia's devasting cyberattack on Estonia
- Putin attacks Georgia
- Bush does nothing.

President Obama (Democrat)2009-2016
- Obama puts Vice President Joe Biden in charge of foreign affairs in Russia.
- Joe Biden can see through putin and says to him, "I'm looking into your eyes and I don't think you have a soul".
- There is a political uprising of hundreds of thousands of people in Russia against Putin's recent actions. Putin squashes rebellion. Opposition leaders, journalists and anti-corruption campaigners are arrested, disappear, or die mysteriously.
- Putin seizes Crimea.
- Vice President Biden is furious and insists that putin must be stopped. But Biden loses and Obama does nothing.

President Trump (Republican)2017-2020
- Trump sides with putin, says that USA should pull out of Nato, and takes putin's side on Ukrainian issues.

President Joe Biden (Democrat)2021-
- Putin's war on Ukraine.
- Biden sends 76+ billion dollars of financial, humanitarian, military, and weapons aid to Ukraine - despite also having to deal with a post-pandemic economy in USA.

More info here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/

This one is interesting:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/

Looks like Biden has been all along Ukraine's best defense against Putin.

Forgot to add:

2000 Clinton (Democrat) but with a Republican Majority Congress

George W Bush - Republican Congress

Barack Obama - First 2 years Democrat congress, then Republican majority in the House

Trump - First 2 years Republican congress, then Democrats in the House

Biden - Republican majority in the House second two years. (Current)

Very nice post Annie. Using facts to settle different opinions.
And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
They give Ukrainians the weapons, some controversial ones included, teach them how to use them, and tell them where to aim them at by providing intelligence.

Whether that would have been the same with someone like Trump in charge is only speculation.
My 2 cents: Trump had a "different" relationship with Putin and was less convinced that a strong collaboration and partnership with the EU would be beneficial for the US.
His claims that there would be no war in Ukraine with him in charge could actually be true. He might as well choose to not intervene at all, and allow Putin to take Ukraine, or let the EU deal with it on their own, which would severely weaken them as well.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #791 on:** July 15, 2023, 05:19 »

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

Hi Stoker. Not ganging up on you, just want to set the record straight. USA Democrats were not in power for the past 30 years. Here is the timeline:

Ок. The Democrats have been in power for 18 years.

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

President Clinton (Democrat).
2000. Putin becomes president of Russia. Clinton immediately senses that putin is not to be trusted but his presidency is coming to an end.

You know, when I read the biography of this KGB agent Putin only once, I immediately said that this agent cannot be trusted and he is 100% evil. He did not win the elections in Russia, Yeltsin appointed him tsar, and the Russians accepted him as their tsar.
So, Clinton took weapons from Ukraine, as a result, the Russians took a lot of missiles for themselves, and they all these missiles they fired at Ukraine. Great!

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

President George W Bush (Republican) 2001-2008
- Bush likes Putin and says he can be trusted. His famous line: "I looked into his eyes and could see his soul".
- The first long-range nuclear bombers by Russia
- Russia's devasting cyberattack on Estonia
- Putin attacks Georgia
- Bush does nothing.

Yesterday I did not quite fully describe my thoughts. I look not only at the personality of the presidents and what they personally say, what nonsense, but also the results of the rule of their political parties. For example, the same Trump, everyone understands that President Trump does not govern the United States alone, he appoints people from the Republican Party to key positions. There is a phrase, the retinue makes the king. Therefore, it is necessary to look not so much at what the US president says, but what consequences his rule has for the world.
When the Russians attacked Georgia, the US sent warships into the Black Sea, after which the Russian terrorists stopped the offensive. Russians are only afraid of Republicans.

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

President Obama (Democrat)2009-2016
- Obama puts Vice President Joe Biden in charge of foreign affairs in Russia.
- Joe Biden can see through putin and says to him, "I'm looking into your eyes and I don't think you have a soul".
- There is a political uprising of hundreds of thousands of people in Russia against Putin's recent actions. Putin squashes rebellion. Opposition leaders, journalists and anti-corruption campaigners are arrested, disappear, or die mysteriously.
- Putin seizes Crimea.
- Vice President Biden is furious and insists that putin must be stopped. But Biden loses and Obama does nothing.

I have underlined and bolded the results of Obama's administration. Under Obama, the Russians also occupied eastern Ukraine and the war broke out. In 2014, the war began. Not in 2022, but in 2014.

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

President Trump (Republican)2017-2020
- Trump sides with putin, says that USA should pull out of Nato, and takes putin's side on Ukrainian issues.

?? $:-\$

Trump told the EU countries that they need to pay for participation in NATO much more than they pay. Why should the US finance 70% of NATO's spending? Why are the EU countries friendly, supporting and trading with Russia? Why is there so much anti-American sentiment in the EU, and why is there so much of it even now? I understand that the EU countries do not want to pay anything for their security.
Further, under Trump, Russia did not even try to build the gas Nord Stream 2 and Trump kept the Kremlin agent Merkel under control. But Biden came along and Nord Stream 2 was completed. It was this northern stream 2 that was the permission for the Russians to launch a new attack on Ukraine. The Russians didn't attack Ukraine in 2022, they attacked Ukraine in 2014. But the Russians launched a new offensive in 2022.

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

President Joe Biden (Democrat)2021-
- Putin's war on Ukraine.
- Biden sends 76+ billion dollars of financial, humanitarian, military, and weapons aid to Ukraine - despite also having to deal with a post-pandemic economy in USA.

I highlighted in bold the result of Biden's rule. As for helping with money, did Biden decide to pay off his failed policies and support for the Russians? Biden was supposed to disconnect Russia from Swift back in 2021, introduce an oil and gas embargo, etc. and so on.
I have already written here many times about military assistance, there are no planes, no long-range missiles, and the Democrats also do not allow shooting where you need to shoot. Democrats or cowards or share with Putin.

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

More info here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/

This one is interesting:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/

There are many words for those who are not in the subject. Mostly support for Democrats and criticism of Republicans. One-sided approach. But who is not in the subject, you can certainly read. I would add a lot to what was said there.

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 20:02

Looks like Biden has been all along Ukraine's best defense against Putin.

-100

Come to Ukraine and you will see this "best" protection for yourself.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #792 on:** July 15, 2023, 05:26 »

Quote from: Annie on July 14, 2023, 22:47

Forgot to add:
2000 Clinton (Democrat) but with a Republican Majority Congress
George W Bush - Republican Congress
Barack Obama - First 2 years Democrat congress, then Republican majority in the House
Trump - First 2 years Republican congress, then Democrats in the House
Biden - Republican majority in the House second two years. (Current)

Here I can't write anything. The president appoints his people to key positions, I think Congress has nothing to do with these appointments.

p.s.
I will already be silent about the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan ... and how it all happened ..

stoker2014 · « **Reply #793 on:** July 15, 2023, 05:30 »

Quote from: Roscoe on July 15, 2023, 04:20

And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.

Oh, well written. And I will write what will happen to half of the EU when the Russians occupy Ukraine. Within a few years, the Russians will mobilize 5 million Ukrainians and attack all the EU countries that used to be part of the Soviet camp, and this is half of Germany too. And I can give you a 100% guarantee that half of the EU countries will be occupied by Russian hands of Ukrainians very quickly.
Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #794 on:** July 15, 2023, 06:15 »

Unfortunately, I cannot support only what is beneficial only to Ukraine. I understand that even if Trump was the best choice for Ukraine, this man organized the storming of the Capitol, and this is all very bad. I also understand that the policy of the Democrats can lead both to the defeat of Ukraine and to the occupation of half of the EU.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #795 on:** July 15, 2023, 07:47 »

The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, like me, is very dissatisfied with the policy of the Democrats.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/14/ukraine-military-valery-zaluzhny-russia/?fbclid=IwAR2FavxFD8IvdzzFdGJTG9sEpotZyGNEtxgtjen9nZIcGVjcy5I_fkD4t_M

stoker2014 · « **Reply #796 on:** July 15, 2023, 08:00 »

Ukraine’s top general, Valery Zaluzhny, wants shells, planes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/06/30/valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-general-interview/

stoker2014 · « **Reply #797 on:** July 15, 2023, 08:07 »

BORIS JOHNSON criticized the policy of the Democrats.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12299647/BORIS-JOHNSON-West-Ukraine-Nato-fast-can.html

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #798 on:** July 15, 2023, 08:54 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 05:30

Quote from: Roscoe on July 15, 2023, 04:20
And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
Oh, well written. And I will write what will happen to half of the EU when the Russians occupy Ukraine. Within a few years, the Russians will mobilize 5 million Ukrainians and attack all the EU countries that used to be part of the Soviet camp, and this is half of Germany too. And I can give you a 100% guarantee that half of the EU countries will be occupied by Russian hands of Ukrainians very quickly.
Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

I can't understand where your 100% guarantee comes from. Russia today is a people hostile to Ukrainians.

There is a great book Niccolo Machiavelli called "the prince" who explains that since the times of the Romans, History proves that when one people invades another, the most certain thing is to emerge and fight resistance from the invaded people. So if Russia succeeds in occupying Ukraine, which is not likely as it failed to do so in 500 days, it is most likely NOT managing to mobilize 5 million people in an already punished country to invade the countries that helped them a few years earlier.

If you give weapons to these 5 million Ukrainians, they will most likely revolt against Russia again.

And the proof that Russia is weak is for everyone to see: So far all objectives have failed and there are already internal rebellions where the Russian Wagner group rebelled against Russia and managed to reach very close to Moscow in less than 24 Hours.

After invading Russia will have to fight directly against 31+1(sweden) states of Nato but also indirectly (political and economical) with Commonwealth, Palop and other state communities. This probably means almost 2/3 of the world.
Let's also not forget that at the level of war technology, Russia is far behind.

I'm not a seer and I hate war but the evidence and the facts are showing that Russia will not win this war and most certainly not invade other countries.

Perhaps Putin's departure is the most likely path - i pray and hope this happens soon!

Big Toe · « **Reply #799 on:** July 15, 2023, 09:28 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 06:15

Unfortunately, I cannot support only what is beneficial only to Ukraine. I understand that even if Trump was the best choice for Ukraine, this man organized the storming of the Capitol, and this is all very bad. I also understand that the policy of the Democrats can lead both to the defeat of Ukraine and to the occupation of half of the EU.

Trump is only the best choice for the Ukraine in some sort of parallel universe.

Probably the same universe where Merkel is a KGB agent, the Democrats have been in power in the US for 30 years and where Russia is going to invade Germany with the help of 5 million Ukrainians.

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 05:30

Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

No, the Ukraine is not a beggar, but neither are they in a position where the US and the EU have to do everything the Ukraine tells them to.

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Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 132551 times)

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