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Author Topic: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous  (Read 14544 times)

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wut

« on: May 04, 2012, 04:14 »
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I'm listening to ppl traveling to 3rd world countries how stiff that has become. You easily spend 3-3,5k € on Cuba or in Brazil in a couple of weeks. That's 3 times more you'd typically spend there 5 or 10 years ago. The same goes for Asia, Thailand for example, prices got doubled in the last 5 years, at least alcoholic drinks cost the same as in Europe (because Asians can't handle liquor). So you actually pay 500-1500€ for a plane ticket to enjoy yourself and throw your money at everything because it's so cheap, just to realize everything costs the same or even more as in most EU countries. And there's no real problem with crime in Europe, you can't say it's dangerous whereas if you travel to any Latin American country (except for Cuba) you really have to watch where and when you're going somewhere, especially by yourself or as a couple or even a small group. I'd really like to go to Latin America for instance (probably Mexico due to cheap flights). But all that puts me off. I'm not interested in Asia (perhaps in India), just to let you know to focus on other continents when you write your posts ;)

I'd like to hear some first hand experiences, I know there's lots of ppl traveling a lot, like holgs etc.


Noodles

« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2012, 05:00 »
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I'm listening to ppl traveling to 3rd world countries how stiff that has become. You easily spend 3-3,5k € on Cuba or in Brazil in a couple of weeks. That's 3 times more you'd typically spend there 5 or 10 years ago. The same goes for Asia, Thailand for example, prices got doubled in the last 5 years, at least alcoholic drinks cost the same as in Europe (because Asians can't handle liquor). So you actually pay 500-1500€ for a plane ticket to enjoy yourself and throw your money at everything because it's so cheap, just to realize everything costs the same or even more as in most EU countries. And there's no real problem with crime in Europe, you can't say it's dangerous whereas if you travel to any Latin American country (except for Cuba) you really have to watch where and when you're going somewhere, especially by yourself or as a couple or even a small group. I'd really like to go to Latin America for instance (probably Mexico due to cheap flights). But all that puts me off. I'm not interested in Asia (perhaps in India), just to let you know to focus on other continents when you write your posts ;)

I'd like to hear some first hand experiences, I know there's lots of ppl traveling a lot, like holgs etc.

Been to Mexico a few times. I think they have a love/hate relationship with the Yanks but being from England all they ever wanted to talk about were the Beatles! Mexico was ok and the people were very friendly. Been to many countries. India is hard to beat. Thailand is too commercial now, check out the countries next door like Vietnam or Burma. But closer to home (for you), when I was 18 I strapped a tent, sleeping bag and a few saucepans to the back of my GS1000 Suzuki and spend 6 glorious weeks travelling around Europe with some friends. Got arrested twice in France, a police road block in Germany and other unmentionable acts and crimes - but it was a great experience and very cheap, living mainly on caught fish/corn on the cob, bread and cheap red wine! Shame they didn't have digital cameras in those days.

wut

« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 05:23 »
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I'm listening to ppl traveling to 3rd world countries how stiff that has become. You easily spend 3-3,5k € on Cuba or in Brazil in a couple of weeks. That's 3 times more you'd typically spend there 5 or 10 years ago. The same goes for Asia, Thailand for example, prices got doubled in the last 5 years, at least alcoholic drinks cost the same as in Europe (because Asians can't handle liquor). So you actually pay 500-1500€ for a plane ticket to enjoy yourself and throw your money at everything because it's so cheap, just to realize everything costs the same or even more as in most EU countries. And there's no real problem with crime in Europe, you can't say it's dangerous whereas if you travel to any Latin American country (except for Cuba) you really have to watch where and when you're going somewhere, especially by yourself or as a couple or even a small group. I'd really like to go to Latin America for instance (probably Mexico due to cheap flights). But all that puts me off. I'm not interested in Asia (perhaps in India), just to let you know to focus on other continents when you write your posts ;)

I'd like to hear some first hand experiences, I know there's lots of ppl traveling a lot, like holgs etc.

Sounds like a neverending adventure. But, have you been in an of those countries lately, that is in the last couple of years?. Things seem to be changing rapidly, costs go up all the time, while our standard of living in Europe is going down. And then there are drug wars in Mexico etc. I read an article a few months ago about murder rates. It was 18 per 100.000 citizens in Mexico, but it was as high as 50 for Guatemala :o. USA is at 6 and Europe is at 2 (or 1, not sure).
Been to Mexico a few times. I think they have a love/hate relationship with the Yanks but being from England all they ever wanted to talk about were the Beatles! Mexico was ok and the people were very friendly. Been to many countries. India is hard to beat. Thailand is too commercial now, check out the countries next door like Vietnam or Burma. But closer to home (for you), when I was 18 I strapped a tent, sleeping bag and a few saucepans to the back of my GS1000 Suzuki and spend 6 glorious weeks travelling around Europe with some friends. Got arrested twice in France, a police road block in Germany and other unmentionable acts and crimes - but it was a great experience and very cheap, living mainly on caught fish/corn on the cob, bread and cheap red wine! Shame they didn't have digital cameras in those days.

« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 05:31 »
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I think your not comparing apples with apples when you say that Thailand etc is as expensive as travelling in Europe. Sure if your sitting by the pool sipping cocktails it can be expensive but public transport, local food, entry to tourist sites etc much more affordable.


Just got back from Vietnam and Laos this morning, it was unreal.

Also how much are you taking into account the depreciation of the US dollar and Euro ?

wut

« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 05:46 »
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I think your not comparing apples with apples when you say that Thailand etc is as expensive as travelling in Europe. Sure if your sitting by the pool sipping cocktails it can be expensive but public transport, local food, entry to tourist sites etc much more affordable.


Just got back from Vietnam and Laos this morning, it was unreal.

Also how much are you taking into account the depreciation of the US dollar and Euro ?


I would say I am. I spent 1k for 2 weeks in Spain (because I am from Europe and plain tickets cost me 70€ or so). And I was constantly eating out, I was eating good, I was drunk almost every day and we (2 of us), rented a car and drove around the whole country. And Spain is not considered an inexpensive country to travel to. But if you look around and ask hotel employees (well if they speak English, most of them don't, or at least don't want to) you can drink sangrias/beer for 1€, eat delicius tostadas (toasts) or montaditos (small sandwiches) for 1€, while daily menus are 8€ in many cities. The only cities that are really expensive are Madrid and coastline cities (Malaga is really super expensive, even more than Madrid and Barca). And even in those cities that particular chain of restaurants has their joints where almost everything costs 1€.

Here's the proof, a photo taken in Sevilla (I felt like being in a 3rd world country because of the ridiculously low prices)


And these mouthwatering delicious gourmet sandwiches (pintxos) cost 1,8€ a piece. Not cheap, but worth every cent, so incredibly delicious

« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 05:49 »
0
The Depths of the Amazon jungle! Can you imagine the wildlife :)

« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2012, 06:12 »
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I think your not comparing apples with apples when you say that Thailand etc is as expensive as travelling in Europe. Sure if your sitting by the pool sipping cocktails it can be expensive but public transport, local food, entry to tourist sites etc much more affordable.


Just got back from Vietnam and Laos this morning, it was unreal.

Also how much are you taking into account the depreciation of the US dollar and Euro ?


I would say I am. I spent 1k for 2 weeks in Spain (because I am from Europe and plain tickets cost me 70€ or so). And I was constantly eating out, I was eating good, I was drunk almost every day and we (2 of us), rented a car and drove around the whole country. And Spain is not considered an inexpensive country to travel to. But if you look around and ask hotel employees (well if they speak English, most of them don't, or at least don't want to) you can drink sangrias/beer for 1€, eat delicius tostadas (toasts) or montaditos (small sandwiches) for 1€, while daily menus are 8€ in many cities. The only cities that are really expensive are Madrid and coastline cities (Malaga is really super expensive, even more than Madrid and Barca). And even in those cities that particular chain of restaurants has their joints where almost everything costs 1€.

Here's the proof, a photo taken in Sevilla (I felt like being in a 3rd world country because of the ridiculously low prices)


And these mouthwatering delicious gourmet sandwiches (pintxos) cost 1,8€ a piece. Not cheap, but worth every cent, so incredibly delicious



I travelled in Spain and Portugal, great part of the world, definitely more affordable parts of Europe.

If you use the same "local" knowledge type spending habits your talking about I think you'll find that South East Asia would run at much cheaper than what your talking about in Europe excluding things such as air flights.

Can you tell me where to buy beer from a bar for 1 euro in Norway ?

For example Vietnam.
glass of local tap beer 4000D  = 20 cents   
Bowl of Pho (noodles and beef) = 15000D = 75 cents
Air conditioned car with private driver for site seeing for 6 hours = 20-30USD

Europe and Asia are both so big and diverse that we could go on forever saying which ones cheaper or more expensive.
eg Spain versus Japan    Sweden versus Vietnam. India versus Switzerland

I think we should both agree that there are great things to see all over the world and they can be done affordably if you go to the effort to find out how and have enough time and self will to do it cheaper. Obviously being able to speak the local language gives you a great step ahead.

Anyway you said you weren't interested in Asia and I haven't been to Central or South America or Africa so I can't contribute any more.

wut

« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2012, 06:49 »
0
I travelled in Spain and Portugal, great part of the world, definitely more affordable parts of Europe.

If you use the same "local" knowledge type spending habits your talking about I think you'll find that South East Asia would run at much cheaper than what your talking about in Europe excluding things such as air flights.

Can you tell me where to buy beer from a bar for 1 euro in Norway ?

For example Vietnam.
glass of local tap beer 4000D  = 20 cents   
Bowl of Pho (noodles and beef) = 15000D = 75 cents
Air conditioned car with private driver for site seeing for 6 hours = 20-30USD

Europe and Asia are both so big and diverse that we could go on forever saying which ones cheaper or more expensive.
eg Spain versus Japan    Sweden versus Vietnam. India versus Switzerland

I think we should both agree that there are great things to see all over the world and they can be done affordably if you go to the effort to find out how and have enough time and self will to do it cheaper. Obviously being able to speak the local language gives you a great step ahead.

Anyway you said you weren't interested in Asia and I haven't been to Central or South America or Africa so I can't contribute any more.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do :) .

Looks like Vietnam is still cheap, but then again if you account in an extra 600-700€ (if you get such a good price) for plane tickets, then you're going to spend approx. the same amount of money as in Europe. But you'll see many new things, which is the main point. Well, visiting exotic places, on the other side of the world for 2k for 2-3 weeks is. I really can't spend 3,5k.

Tnx for your posts, they were very informative and helpful.

« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2012, 11:02 »
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This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

And regarding crime... there are dangerous areas in every country (yours included).

« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 11:30 »
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Thailand is still very cheap if you know where to go or more particularly where to avoid. Basically the north is cheap and south of Bangkok it gets progressively more expensive until you reach Phuket where prices, relatively speaking, are extortionate. Yes, prices have gone up in the last few years but no more than other countries. Have you been to France recently? Ouch!

« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 11:41 »
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Just wait! 
Likley, even yours country may become 3rd world...!

« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 11:53 »
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Just wait! 
Likley, even yours country may become 3rd world...!

So what would be the politically correct term to use for those countries? I understand that apparently people that live in those countries take offense to the term, but as far as I know, when I say a third world country, I mean one where the majority of the population are lower class or poor. Where the people that run the country are filthy stinking rich. Where the internet is still dial up. Where some villages don't have running water or sewers. Not any kind of negative statement against the people, but rather their living conditions and economic state.

Lighten up. Different terms mean different things to different people, sometimes they are said without malice or intended as a derogatory insult.

And Borg you are so right. I totally see the US becoming a third world nation. That being used in the sense that the majority of the population won't be able to find a job and make a living and will reach poverty level, and the major corporations and executives will continue to squeeze every last dime from the minions so they can continue to live in their luxurious lifestyle. Unlike some, I don't take offense that you say that.

« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 12:03 »
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This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

What is the politically correct term in 2012 then? It's pointless using an expression like 'developing countries' as, last time I checked, all countries are 'developing' and have been since humans wandered out of Africa.

wut

« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 13:21 »
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Just wait! 
Likley, even yours country may become 3rd world...!

So what would be the politically correct term to use for those countries? I understand that apparently people that live in those countries take offense to the term, but as far as I know, when I say a third world country, I mean one where the majority of the population are lower class or poor. Where the people that run the country are filthy stinking rich. Where the internet is still dial up. Where some villages don't have running water or sewers. Not any kind of negative statement against the people, but rather their living conditions and economic state.

Lighten up. Different terms mean different things to different people, sometimes they are said without malice or intended as a derogatory insult.

And Borg you are so right. I totally see the US becoming a third world nation. That being used in the sense that the majority of the population won't be able to find a job and make a living and will reach poverty level, and the major corporations and executives will continue to squeeze every last dime from the minions so they can continue to live in their luxurious lifestyle. Unlike some, I don't take offense that you say that.

You beat me to it in your last paragraph (I've bolded the text that relates). Same goes for Europe as well, or better said it's soon going to be like that, the huge social differences etc (vanishing middle class and growing lower class). Well it already is like that in Greece, where every 10th citizen of Athens comes to the centers that are distributing free food.

When it comes to my country, a disaster, complete economic meltdown is predicted within a couple of years. In times like that, I'm so happy to be making money off of global, not local industry, taking advantage of global markets. And it's the right place to mention America again. Thanks to its economic recuperation things are not looking that grim, there's still a big market for MS in the USA

wut

« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 13:26 »
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Thailand is still very cheap if you know where to go or more particularly where to avoid. Basically the north is cheap and south of Bangkok it gets progressively more expensive until you reach Phuket where prices, relatively speaking, are extortionate. Yes, prices have gone up in the last few years but no more than other countries. Have you been to France recently? Ouch!

Any other part of the world you've traveled to lately. As I said, I'm not really interested in Asia. Perhaps I'd go to India and I'd definitely go to Iran, if it weren't under constant threat of attack by a couple of countries.

I'd really like to travel outside of Europe more and not limit myself to one continent and North Africa...

« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 14:42 »
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Hey guys...
I'm not serious with my the statement ...
I forgot to put smilies at the end ... :P
I just wanted to draw a line on a sarcastic way between today's crisis around the World and that economic category such as "3rd world" ...

Of course, there is no other official  or appropriate name for a such big and negative difference in economic standard for those countries...
Regards!  ;)

« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 17:29 »
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This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

What is the politically correct term in 2012 then? It's pointless using an expression like 'developing countries' as, last time I checked, all countries are 'developing' and have been since humans wandered out of Africa.

3rd world still retains whiffs of colonialism and condescension  and since the 2nd world has collapsed, it also doesn't make much sense anymore.
 countries like India which might have been called 3rd world now have over 200 million in the middle class and along with china will continue to grow

the G8 countries are now the G20. globalization is real and expanding

so, yes, it is time to retire the phrase; 'emerging nations', 'developing nations' are much more neutral and less patronizing

« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2012, 17:44 »
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The Depths of the Amazon jungle! Can you imagine the wildlife :)

Been there and it was nice if you can handle the bugs, and, if you are on a crappy little screen covered live aboard and can handle bilge rats and sweat you are good to go.  Honestly I heard a lot of animals in the trees but couldn't see a lot.  But we did hunt Caiman at night...like small crocs.  Went to photograph pink river dolphins.

Galapagos
Honduras
India
Egypt
Indonesia
Micronesia
Baja
Malaysia

These are a few places I've been but the cost is what you make it and so is the safety.  Good third world trips require planning and knowledge, so it's hard to answer your question.

« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2012, 18:39 »
0
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

And regarding crime... there are dangerous areas in every country (yours included).

He did say it without malice, I think. I'm still suprised when I see the term these days, as the term has been frowned upon for years now. Maybe it's still widely used and accepted in some countries, and although I still occasionally see it written, I haven't heard anyone say it probably for well over a decade, maybe even two.

« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2012, 18:45 »
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3rd world still retains whiffs of colonialism and condescension  and since the 2nd world has collapsed, it also doesn't make much sense anymore.
 countries like India which might have been called 3rd world now have over 200 million in the middle class and along with china will continue to grow

the G8 countries are now the G20. globalization is real and expanding

so, yes, it is time to retire the phrase; 'emerging nations', 'developing nations' are much more neutral and less patronizing

Isn't 'developing nations' equally condescending and patronizing? It suggests that 'proper countries' have already fully developed and they're sort of marking time in a kindly way whilst waiting for their less capable counterparts to be helped along.

I know of no country that is 'fully developed'. All countries are developing, it's just that some are ahead of others. It is all just snaphots in time. Thailand today, for example, is vastly more developed than any Western country was even 70 years ago. In some ways it is actually more developed than Western nations in the social cohesion, lack of unemployment and low crime rate. As a Westerner who spends much time there I feel we could learn much from them. They may be following us to some degree, but boy are they learning from our mistakes. I'm sure the same could be said of many other 'developing nations', so to speak.

wut

« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2012, 18:52 »
0
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term.  

And regarding crime... there are dangerous areas in every country (yours included).

He did say it without malice, I think. I'm still suprised when I see the term these days, as the term has been frowned upon for years now. Maybe it's still widely used and accepted in some countries, and although I still occasionally see it written, I haven't heard anyone say it probably for well over a decade, maybe even two.

Of course I meant it without malice. Why would I want to go there otherwise? I dunno, it's used widely in Europe in I don't really know any other term then developing countries, which is not used that often and at least to me, it sounds like it could offend more ppl. Not that I care about political correctness - it's ironically usually used by ppl and nations that have done most harm to certain types of ppl/part of population, nations where slavery was legal in the 20th century and segregation only 50 years ago (this really sounds unbelievable to me:o). You don't have to be politically correct if you don't have a guilty conscience ;)

ETA: gostwyck already beat me to it regarding 3rd world/developing countries. As usually, his explanation paints a better picture ;)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 18:55 by wut »

« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2012, 19:01 »
0
@Wut Well I guess u won't be using it in another thread then.

« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2012, 19:10 »
0
3rd world still retains whiffs of colonialism and condescension  and since the 2nd world has collapsed, it also doesn't make much sense anymore.
 countries like India which might have been called 3rd world now have over 200 million in the middle class and along with china will continue to grow

the G8 countries are now the G20. globalization is real and expanding

so, yes, it is time to retire the phrase; 'emerging nations', 'developing nations' are much more neutral and less patronizing

Isn't 'developing nations' equally condescending and patronizing? It suggests that 'proper countries' have already fully developed and they're sort of marking time in a kindly way whilst waiting for their less capable counterparts to be helped along.

I know of no country that is 'fully developed'. All countries are developing, it's just that some are ahead of others. It is all just snaphots in time. Thailand today, for example, is vastly more developed than any Western country was even 70 years ago. In some ways it is actually more developed than Western nations in the social cohesion, lack of unemployment and low crime rate. As a Westerner who spends much time there I feel we could learn much from them. They may be following us to some degree, but boy are they learning from our mistakes. I'm sure the same could be said of many other 'developing nations', so to speak.

Call it what you want, the experience of a less developed country, for me, has been a joy.  I find that, as a whole, the places I've been have had very friendly natives, warm residents and I've made some lasting friends.  Many years ago in Cairo Egypt I was introduced to * raw oysters by an Egyptian physician.  We sat on the sidewalk of a small diner during the evening, warm but relaxing. I was flying back to the states the next day.  I got such bad food poisoning during my flight I thought I was a dead man.  But Omar the doc and I now laugh about it years later, like 30 years later.  Traveling to countries with varying levels of condition, economically and culturally, is the reward. It can never be replaced and is, to me, worth every dime I spend.

« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2012, 19:14 »
0
3rd world still retains whiffs of colonialism and condescension  and since the 2nd world has collapsed, it also doesn't make much sense anymore.
 countries like India which might have been called 3rd world now have over 200 million in the middle class and along with china will continue to grow

the G8 countries are now the G20. globalization is real and expanding

so, yes, it is time to retire the phrase; 'emerging nations', 'developing nations' are much more neutral and less patronizing

Isn't 'developing nations' equally condescending and patronizing? It suggests that 'proper countries' have already fully developed and they're sort of marking time in a kindly way whilst waiting for their less capable counterparts to be helped along.

I know of no country that is 'fully developed'. All countries are developing, it's just that some are ahead of others. It is all just snaphots in time. Thailand today, for example, is vastly more developed than any Western country was even 70 years ago. In some ways it is actually more developed than Western nations in the social cohesion, lack of unemployment and low crime rate. As a Westerner who spends much time there I feel we could learn much from them. They may be following us to some degree, but boy are they learning from our mistakes. I'm sure the same could be said of many other 'developing nations', so to speak.

In regards to social cohesion.
You must have missed the weekly bombings and shootings in the southern provinces. Or red shirt protests in Bangkok.

wut

« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2012, 19:18 »
0
Traveling to countries with varying levels of condition, economically and culturally, is the reward. It can never be replaced and is, to me, worth every dime I spend.

Touche!


 

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