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Author Topic: Why are we losing so many members?  (Read 9258 times)

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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2014, 00:00 »
+5
I've always seen it as an honest representation of a diverse group of people. Characters come and go and opinions are some times wild and occasionally offensive. I try to take it all in stride, have an open mind, but still express my opinions. At the end of the day, I consider this forum just a way to have a little fun, get some info, and break up part of the day.


« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2014, 01:12 »
+7
Maybe there will be more comments if the title was not so random?

What can you offer?

Btw. Where is Lisa...?
Who is next?

Lisa is taking extended time out because she didn't like that her post got hidden after ten negative votes on the DPC issue. (That policy has been changed now.)

Then 'Leaf' should contact her and personally apologise for having had such a stupid system in place to start with, tell her it's gone and invite her back.

What's the point in a 'so-called' independent and essentially 'frank point-of-view-forum' if someone can be voted off (or made invisible) just because they have a different view point from the mob.

That policy just supported angry villagers with pitchforks.........



Yes, we exchanged emails a day or two after she closed her account and after the hidden posts 'feature' was scrapped.  She knows she is welcomed back.

Gino

« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2014, 01:30 »
+19
I hardly post anything and if I post I first check if everything is save. But mostly I like to read so I don't miss the latest news. I think microstock is doing great and there are so many gaps to be filled and coming/existing trends to use. But this gets down votes. I make a full income from stock. Just 1,5 years ago I earned about $200 from stock per month. From that point I put my shoulders into it. Researched what sold and what did not. Got my conclusions from my online images and at this point I make $4200 per month and my income is growing every month. I only add about 50 images a month. So yes I am positive about stock. Sharing this info? Better not... so please keep this to yourself. I might get voted down. There are many microstockers that do great but they don't share there information here. Trend here is to be negative and if you are positive you get voted down or people think you are lying.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 16:55 by Gino »

« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2014, 02:43 »
+17
Congrats on the success Gino.  I also agree that there is a lot of room for growth and new images if you know where to look.  I also agree that the popular opinion on here is a negative one.  It is certainly not uncommon in any social arena to have silence when things are going well and lots of noise when things aren't as successful - but still, I hope we can change the tone on here to be a bit more positive.

... I'll do my best to help that happen
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 03:08 by leaf »

ethan

« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2014, 05:59 »
+3
And when there is a fight that spills onto these forums pages it is usually, in the final analysis, about the fundamentals of what is best for us all as stock photographers. A big 'pinch of salt' should be added before we condemn our professional colleagues that are essentially trying to make a point for all our benefits. We're not all eloquent, and English may not be our mother tongue, but what unites us as one, is that we are photographers, and we should be one voice.

I agree with many things you said but I don't think we are all going to be in agreement all the time about what is the best action to take or even what is the right opinion to have.  Very rarely that we can expect to speak with one voice.  It seems like the big problem is that those smaller disagreeing voices are the ones that are getting silenced or are leaving.

You're right. It was a bit of a romantic notion hoping we would all agree on anything.

In my defence, I posted that message after my family and I had eaten our evening meal together and having partaken in two rather large glasses of red I was probably feeling a little too relaxed - and maybe a little romantic :)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 06:43 by ethan »

« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2014, 07:08 »
+14
Congrats on the success Gino.  I also agree that there is a lot of room for growth and new images if you know where to look.  I also agree that the popular opinion on here is a negative one.  It is certainly not uncommon in any social arena to have silence when things are going well and lots of noise when things aren't as successful - but still, I hope we can change the tone on here to be a bit more positive.

... I'll do my best to help that happen

As much as I would like less negativity here, I also have watched iStocks forums. They tried to curtail the negativity (justified?) and today the forums are almost a useless ghost town. iStock's forums in he early days were part of the schtick that formed the group of contributors that made iStock great. Now - not so much - on many fronts. I think limiting/removing the personal attacks are good. I think limiting the overheated exchanges are good. Just don't cut to deep and curtail opposition views. Unlike iStock, we need the opposing views and we need somehow to  keep them as lively debate of many sides of the issues.

« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2014, 07:08 »
+7
You won't be losing me as a member.
However, my participation will be "moderate" in the near future until the atmosphere of the forum improves..
When I suggested  recently that there was a vein of negativity running through this forum, I was quickly  shot down .
Now, as we can see from other posts in this thread, there are others who also believe my take on it.

For me it's just too much of an arena where confrontations abound, point scoring is high on the list, and putting down people to try and show that they are better than others.
I recently put up a thread which was challenged as if to show my stupidity.

Maybe those who write in such a dominating way would be better spent in creative mode, making images to sell rather than coming in here and trying to boss people around.

I have written this in defence of the many decent long standing members who partake here and who sadly have been subjected to some of the above.

The situation can only get better!






« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2014, 07:18 »
+3
Congrats on the success Gino.  I also agree that there is a lot of room for growth and new images if you know where to look.  I also agree that the popular opinion on here is a negative one.  It is certainly not uncommon in any social arena to have silence when things are going well and lots of noise when things aren't as successful - but still, I hope we can change the tone on here to be a bit more positive.

... I'll do my best to help that happen

As much as I would like less negativity here, I also have watched iStocks forums. They tried to curtail the negativity (justified?) and today the forums are almost a useless ghost town. iStock's forums in he early days were part of the schtick that formed the group of contributors that made iStock great. Now - not so much - on many fronts. I think limiting/removing the personal attacks are good. I think limiting the overheated exchanges are good. Just don't cut to deep and curtail opposition views. Unlike iStock, we need the opposing views and we need somehow to  keep them as lively debate of many sides of the issues.

I think that heated debate and apposing views can still take place without attacks or negativity.  It's just easier to start insulting and being negative than anything else.. perhaps the vice people turn to when they run out of arguments. Either way, i agree.  Things need to be improved here, but that doesn't mean silencing any opinions.

« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2014, 07:42 »
+4
If you asked me give the names of a group of members that attack people for their opinions I couldn't come up with even two people that consistently act as a "gang" and victimize others.

For the most part the people that have been on here a while are very independently minded and argue with each other as much as with anyone else.

I struggle to understand what people mean when they talk about everyone here collectively as negative or bullying. We are all individuals with our own opinions, if everyone that walked off had stayed they'd easily out number the one or two people that tend to speak more "directly".

People just don't like it when they express an opinion and some others strongly disagree with it. The solution is to stop seeing everyone else as an amalgam and feeling victimized when a few people don't agree. It's very easy to only see the negative views when they are directed against you.

(of course I am not talking about the the people that occasionally pop up to rudely attack other members or agencies then disappear again. There's not a lot you can do about that except banning them till they sneak back in, I am talking about the regular members here)

« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2014, 07:55 »
+1
I think that heated debate and apposing views can still take place without attacks or negativity.  It's just easier to start insulting and being negative than anything else.. perhaps the vice people turn to when they run out of arguments. Either way, i agree.  Things need to be improved here, but that doesn't mean silencing any opinions.

Why not get rid of the voting ? At least as an experiment. Negative voting makes it possible for people to silently express their negativity towards what someone has said but without presenting any coherent counter argument. Positive voting on an essentially negative post is the equal opposite. I am as guilty of this as everyone else.

If we disagree with someone, or do not understand, then the response should be to politely represent a counter opinion or to ask for a point to be further explained. Too often here the response is snarky and / or aggressive.

IMO there is far too much pointless emotion and far too little logical analysis of how many of the current models are inevitably evolving. It all becomes rather pointlessly them-vs-us.

Lev

« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2014, 08:54 »
+2
this voting system is ridiculous.

for example, someone recently asked "what do you see in 3 years from now"

well, i personally see 10x multiplied revenue in 3 years. but i didn't even bother to post it, coz i know in advance this positively-realistic expectation will gather negative votes.

and then i will not be able to fool myself with "i gave my answer because most of people here ARE NOT #%$#s".

of course, i still remember the way people treated Yuri here when he said he went exclusive, if i would need any reminder THEY REALLY ARE. but voting system works as a constant reminder anyway.

very, very unpleasant community.

most likely it's my last posting here.

« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2014, 09:15 »
+6
Honestly this is the sort of thing I mean. Someone has a personality clash with really only one other member and all of a sudden the whole forum is "unprofessional" and a bunch of "#%$#s" (whatever that means).

U11


« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2014, 09:15 »
+6
Why not get rid of the voting ?
I think the voting system is a great feature of this site.
It is very simple and powerful feedback mechanism.
I miss it very much on sites like FB. Where _anything_ can accumulate _positive_ likes with a time.

Goofy

« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2014, 09:21 »
+1
I feel the current is good as well. The negative points don't count against you but kind of tell you that you are barking up the wrong tree. On some sites the negatives get taken out of your total score - ie Photosig.com where you can get a negative score on your submitted image. FB really doesn't improve or show you that your image is a good one.

« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2014, 10:09 »
+5
I must confess to being somewhat confused as to what is meant by "negativity".  I upset someone the other day - and he was more upset that I got a pile of "up" votes for what he regarded as a libel. I have a bad habit of saying what I think and the "up" votes imply that quite a lot of other people thought the same (his "up" votes for his response show that a number of others didn't perceive what he was saying the same way I did). The fact that I upset him actually gave him a reason for explaining his position more fully. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Leaf posted a mild rebuke to me, so I must assume that according to current thinking I was guilty of being insulting and negative.  Which creates the odd situation that it is positive to argue that resistance is useless and negative to argue that through action we might achieve change.  Or perhaps I'm just too blunt in what I say and I should resort to dissembling or circumlocution in order to achieve a degree of obfuscation that will leave people perplexed and bemused as they attempt to construe the import of the intelligence I seek to impart.

Oh, look! I CAN be obscure if I try!

« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2014, 10:56 »
+4
I am also confused about what is meant by "negativity". There is hostility and fighting amongst contributors, and then there is the complaining about sales or the latest move by this or that distributor.   

The personal attacks should be controlled.  We can treat each other with courtesy.  But posting negative criticisms of distributors or complaints about sales is the kind of "negativity" that can also be useful to know and make positive actions.

« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2014, 11:24 »
+3
this voting system is ridiculous.

for example, someone recently asked "what do you see in 3 years from now"

well, i personally see 10x multiplied revenue in 3 years. but i didn't even bother to post it, coz i know in advance this positively-realistic expectation will gather negative votes.

and then i will not be able to fool myself with "i gave my answer because most of people here ARE NOT #%$#s".

of course, i still remember the way people treated Yuri here when he said he went exclusive, if i would need any reminder THEY REALLY ARE. but voting system works as a constant reminder anyway.

very, very unpleasant community.

most likely it's my last posting here.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being positive when everyone else is negative or being negative when everyone else is positive. I know I've been on the wrong side of the fence in some of these conversations, but I think it is important to get the opinions or your own story out there anyway.

There can be a certain presentation or tact to saying those things though. It never helps your argument when you look like your rubbing your success in other people's faces. I think Yuri came off that way in his exclusive deal. I'm not sure if that is what he meant to do, but that's what ended up happening. I usually don't take those things personally because inappropriateness is usually hilarious.  ;D

« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2014, 11:40 »
+4
Everyone must be frustrated with one or more of their agents, our personal circles of friends and family have no clue what this business is about so it's difficult to have a proper "vent", we come here already riled up and fearful only to read about more discouraging news - by then respect sensors have been turned off and everyone is kicking the proverbial dog - or in this case - their peers.

But, I have been to much more hostile forums.

« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2014, 13:20 »
+6
For me:

1) not enough active contributors - fresh meat is needed
2) the same old faces saying the same old things over and OVER again ad nauseum in the belief we are all stupid or blind
3) too few solutions offered up for far too many problems
4) visibility of any hard data to back up bold statements about the way the business is going
5) animosity towards anyone not compelled to wallow in the collective misery or who actually believes there is still work to do and money to be made
6) The stupid voting system

PS. Really don't understand all the kerfuffle around Yuri. Like him or not, If he succeeds in giving Getty and Istock a well deserved kick up the arse....more power to his right foot as far as I'm concerned.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 13:26 by Red Dove »

« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2014, 13:37 »
+3
A big pile of posts were removed from this thread.

One reason was the cat fight taking place and the other for discussing other members is a negative tone.

« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2014, 13:47 »
-1
A big pile of posts were removed from this thread.

One reason was the cat fight taking place and the other for discussing other members is a negative tone.
Sorry Leaf, but one of the most annoying things in any forum is a moderator removing posts.  Censorship is a quick way to lose members.

« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2014, 15:46 »
+4
I don't post much because of a lack of time. I dip in when I can, offer an opinion when I feel the need, then get back to work.

Lot's of great people on here and a lot of experience. The personal arguments however are tedious and childish. Many a time I've thought of posting something of interest on here, only to decide against it.

Yes, currently it's an open forum and one which is moderated to the best of an individuals ability. Unless extreme personal criticisms and hugely off topic and inappropriate remarks are really carefully policed, this group is in danger of losing credibility going forward.

That would be a shame; if the forum conducted itself more professionally it could be a more active and unified force for change in Microstock.




« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2014, 15:59 »
+10
A big pile of posts were removed from this thread.

One reason was the cat fight taking place and the other for discussing other members is a negative tone.

This is Leaf's site, he can do what he feels is necessary. And he's been very hands off - no complaints from me, and I don't feel his stepping in has ever damaged this forum or participation.

« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2014, 17:27 »
0
A big pile of posts were removed from this thread.

One reason was the cat fight taking place and the other for discussing other members is a negative tone.

That's a pity. I was out playing golf so missed them. Makes me wonder what the big fuss was all about!

« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2014, 17:56 »
+9
You have 5500 comments and 3500 hearts, I had 4000 comments and 5500 hearts, so I had more constructive things to say people agreed with

Here is the reality of the voting system and how it actually plays out. A point scoring contest.


 

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