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Author Topic: Don't trust in Paypal - your account can be limited without any evident reason  (Read 40022 times)

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« on: May 06, 2016, 00:12 »
+8
Hi,

I saw several posts on forum about Paypal' limited accounts. My account also has been limited and I learned a lot since that day.
So I'm writing this to warn other my colleagues and with a little help from what I learned.

First of all, I wish everyone happy earnings and peaceful business with Paypal.
I do not want to scare you, just friendly warn that one day can change everything, so be prepared.


Don't trust in Paypal (PP) 100%. It is good when everything is good, but one morning you can wake up and find out your account has been limited and all your financial life has been paralyzed, regardless the fact how good you was with PP. Without any reason. Just because. Because they are Paypal and they can do that. This is the main reason.

A month ago, after 8 years of using, I got email from Paypal that my account has been limited. At first I didn't realize how big my problem is, but just in hours after some research I understood that it's more than enough. After few days I find out, that PP ruined all my online business ~80%. I had only about $150 in my account, but the worst part was, that my main earnings were built on PP Merchant tools. I was shocked several days and can't do anything. Then I somehow came back to life and started to look for solutions. I also found many websites about PP unpredictable behavior, red hundreds horrible stories and testimonies and understood how terrible PP can be, if you fully trust it, because PP don't love you, PP don't care about you and only one thing that PP cares is money. Nothing personal, just business.

So I started recover my mind after this nightmare and began organize my payments on my all agencies and websites where I'm doing business. I redirected all possible payments to Skrill or Payoneer, but some agencies have no such possibilities (Zazzle, FAA, some other), so I had to hold my money for unlimited time. I restored about 30% of my earnings with alternative payment systems, but my main earning resources ended, regardless of fact that I installed alternative systems. So today I'm living on ~40-50% of my previous earnings. I'm a full time stocker, I have no other job, I'm just freelance photog and designer. And I'm trying to find other ways to survive in the world without PP.

Of course I knew about how not to put all your eggs in one basket and I predicted a nightmare like this. I didn't have another way how to resolve some payments without PP, but all other income I organized with other payment systems, so today I have at least 40-50% of my previous money. But it's not enough. We must live without fear and with full amount of money we earned. And PP can ruin your finances any day without any visible reason. That's why I hate PP now with all my heart.

I find out (I believe, I did that) what was the reason. It seems PP didn't like one photo on one of my websites, where PP buttons have been installed. I removed buttons and emailed them with explanations. Of course, they didn't reply. They very rarely reply. I have a little faith that after 180 days my account will be active again and I will be able to withdraw my money.

Beside this, the next day they limited my other account also. PP allows you to have two accounts, one Personal and one Business, so I had both and now both have been limited.

ADDITION 1

What happens when your account is limited:

What you can I do while your account is limited?
  • update your account information
  • add a card
  • add a bank account
  • use PayPal logos in your auction listings or on your website
What you can't I do while your account is limited?
  • send money
  • withdraw money from your account
  • receive or request money
  • close your account
  • add money to your account
  • remove a card
  • remove a bank account
  • send refunds

Avoiding Suspicion

To prevent your account from being limited in the first place, keep your account in order by following these guidelines:

• Treat your PayPal account as you would your bank account: use secret passwords and keep them to yourself!
• Make sure your true name is on your PayPal account and that it matches the name on your bank and credit card accounts. If you are a business, make sure the bank account and credit card on your account are also in your business name.
• Use accurate addresses and phone numbers that match those on your credit card and bank account, and keep them current. False contact information can raise suspicion on your account and make it more difficult to regain access.
• Delete old or obsolete bank accounts and credit cards from your account. If you do not keep your account up-to-date, you might find yourself in a bind when your account is limited and PayPal asks you to prove ownership of a bank account with an old address.
• If you are a seller, always use electronically trackable shipping methods so that if the shipment or receipt of a physical good is in doubt, you can easily prove your case. Also make sure to keep proof of inventory or merchandise, such as receipts, invoices, or 12 proof of authenticity for older, collectible items. Maintain good relationships with your suppliers so that you can easily access this information when you need it.
• If you have any old or abandoned PayPal accounts, make sure to resolve your issues with those accounts and then close them. If your account has been limited and PayPal sees linked accounts with issues, such as a negative balance or outstanding buyer complaints, PayPal will probably ask you to resolve those issues as well before they'll be willing to lift the limitation on your active account.

END OF ADDITION 1

Prepare in advance.

  • Don't keep big amount of money on PP.
  • Open all other possible payment processors accounts: Skrill, Payoneer, other.
  • Look for alternative ways how to transfer money. Of course, we have limited choice as stock agencies don't use many
  • Do everything that you could live without PP.
  • And be quiet, don't play suspicious games with your account, be careful with your info etc. - please find a list below

Now I opened several alternative accounts with Payza, Neteller, Paxum, some other - for my online business next to stock agencies. Even renewed my interest in Bitcoin. Everything works, if you're ready for various unexpectedness.

And even doing everything right you have no guarantees that your account will not be limited. That is Paypal.

Understanding how PayPal acts, can help you anticipate what their next likely move will be, regarding Your Account.
What makes PayPal the company they are today?
PayPal's public face is very different from the private PayPal that many of us never see.
While PayPal denies publicly they have a customer service problem, they admit they have a customer service problem in private.
While PayPal denies publicly they don't make any money off of your money, PayPal admits it in legal documents.
PayPal publicly says their buyer protection is there for buyers, but in private
PayPal admits the policy is there to prevent costly chargebacks.

Now, I would like to share a couple of websites where you could find a lot of info what to do and how to act after your PP has been limited (usually for 180 days).
Many advices, alternatives and really some help how to resolve the problem.

http://www.paypalsucks.com/
http://www.screw-paypal.com/index.html


Please pay attention in to their Toolkit Pro e-book, where you'll find some good advice and tips how to avoid problems with Paypal and how to get out of them.



All The Reasons Why PayPal Might Limit Your Account
PayPal Might Limit Your Account and Freeze Your Funds Because:



• You received too much money into your account (this can be any amount that is not in proportion to what you normally received during the average history of your account).
• You transferred too much money out of your account ($2,000 US is the rumored amount that triggers the fraud system).
• You called customer service at PayPal and made somebody angry (there are documented cases of irate customers calling PayPal only to find out their accounts were limited moments after the phone call was made).
• PayPal has reason to believe you have more than the allowed two PayPal accounts (One Personal Account/One Premier Account).
• Somebody filed a complaint with PayPal about you (a buyer or a seller or an interested third party).
• You filed a complaint against somebody (a buyer or a seller).
• You initiated a chargeback with your credit card company.
• You initiated a chageback with your credit card company before you filed a claim through PayPal's Buyer or Seller Protection Program.
• PayPal thinks you are trying to avoid paying PayPal fees by charging excessive shipping & handling charges for your sales.
• PayPal thinks you are using your PayPal account to speculate in the currency market.
• PayPal doesn't agree with some content on your website (example: a man who ran a well known blog had his PayPal account limited because his website contained a link to the Pearl terrorist killing. He accepted PayPal donations on his website for his news blog).
• PayPal believes you are in violation of its User Agreement.
• PayPal believes you are in violation of its Acceptable Use Policy (example: PayPal believes you used your account to purchase a dirty book or dirty magazine).
• PayPal believes you are in violation of its Privacy Policy (example: you gave information to the police about a fraud suspect who is also a PayPal member).
• PayPal believes you are in violation of their User Agreement.
• You used your PayPal Debit Card to purchase material that PayPal finds objectionable (even if it's legal in the real world).
• You charged too much money on your PayPal Debit Card.
• You went on vacation and used your debit card in another state or another country.
• You used your PayPal debit card to make an online transaction that was not through PayPal (or a telephone order).
• You refunded a buyer through your PayPal account -- but did not use the proper refund methods.
• You lost a dispute claim.
• You are late Paying your eBay fees -- or you owe eBay money.
• You received a negative feedback comment on your eBay account.
• You chose to use your PayPal account without verifying it.
• PayPal believes that your account information is not up-to-date -- even if they have no grounds to actually believe it.
• PayPal tried to contact you over the phone and you did not answer.
• You were the victim of fraud (example: you clicked on a link in an email that you thought was from PayPal but it was really a phishing website).
• You reported to PayPal an unauthorized purchase made on your PayPal account or your credit card.
• You moved into a house or new apartment that was occupied by somebody with a limited PayPal account.
• You logged into your PayPal account from a location that was not your usual log in location (example: friend's house or place of employment).
• PayPal has linked your account with another person who has a limited account and/or outstanding issues to resolve with PayPal.
• PayPal froze your account because they linked you as being "associated" with a family member of yours that has an outstanding PayPal problem to deal with.
• After conducting a credit check on you, your credit score was too high, too low or you had too many open lines of credit or debt.
• A third party contacts PayPal saying -- without evidence -- that you are engaging in fraudulent activity.
• PayPal suspects you are engaging in fraudulent activity.
• PayPal believes that your business practices are risky and pose a potential harm to yourself, to PayPal and to other PayPal members.
• The phone number you registered with PayPal happens to be the same phone number of somebody who has/had PayPal problems.
• You new ISP number was associated with somebody who has/had PayPal problems.
• You conducted a transaction with an individual who has PayPal problems (such as a buyer or a seller). PayPal will "link" you with that person.
• You sold something and the buyer was a con artist or scammer. You get "linked" to that person.
• You violated PayPal's user agreement by posting anti-PayPal writings or thoughts in a public place (example: internet)
• Your name, your address, your phone number, or your ISP is SIMILIAR to a person who has/had PayPal problems.
• You were associated with a person who has a frozen PayPal account.
• You refused PayPal's request for very private information about yourself.
• PayPal requested information from you which you supplied -- but you did not supply it fast enough.
• You logged into your PayPal account from a public internet cafe.
• You sold an item on eBay that is popular for scammers to sell (high priced items or popular items like Rolex watches, Play Stations, Computers, etc.)
• You sold a Play Station 3 on eBay.
• You sold an online e-book to a buyer who later filed a complaint against you -- PayPal asked you for a tracking number and you could not provide it.
• You went to PayPal's website and logged in using a proxy service or other anonymous software that you use to protect yourself on the internet.
• While registering, you typed your name wrong into your personal profile (example: Smith, John when it should be John Smith)
• You bought or sold something that was on PayPal's Restricted Items List (academic software, concert tickets, OEM software, surveillance equipment or adult material, etc.)
• You sent money to a country that is on PayPal's unauthorized list.
• You received money from a country that is on PayPal's unauthorized list.
• The bank account you verified with PayPal was a new account.
• You have a high credit card balance that triggered PayPal's fraud detection system -- a high card balance means a higher risk that you will engage in fraud.
• PayPal conducted a third party investigation of you. Based on those findings, they limited your account (you have been sued, arrested, charged with a crime, have too many debts etc.).
• PayPal tried to withdraw money from your bank account or credit card and was declined.
• You PayPal account shares similar details with an account that has already been frozen.
• You PayPal account is in the negative.
• Your PayPal account might become in the negative.
• A chargeback was filed against you.
• You attempted to modify or change your personal details but were not able to.
• You removed your bank account or credit card information from your PayPal account.
• PayPal believes you are not who you say you are.
• You withdrew or transferred $2,500 or more from your PayPal account within 24 hours or over a weekend.
• You did something strange (example: transferred money to a roommate with a PayPal account or a family member).
• Your overall withdrawal and deposit activity is "suspicious."
• Your name on your social security number does not match EXACTLY what is on your PayPal account (example: Social Security Card/Number is Robert Smith but your PayPal account name is Bob Smith).
• The name on your bank account or credit card does not MATCH exactly with the name on your PayPal account (example: William Smith vs. Will Smith or Bob Smith).
• There are an additional 100 plus fraud ques unknown to the general public that will trigger an unpleasant experience with PayPal.

Believe it or not, these are all reasons as to why PayPal can and will limit your account. With a limited or frozen PayPal account, you have NO access to your own money. There are many, many more reasons as to why PayPal will limit your account and deny you access to your money. Any number of things unknown to you or I can trigger such an event.

The reason why this is so disturbing is this: once your account is limited, you have a less than 10% chance of getting your account unlimited. That means less than a 10% chance of getting your account restored to its previous state -- because you made a mistake that you did not know was a mistake or PayPal accused you of something without having or offering any evidence as to your guilt. The simple whim of PayPal can destroy your business and your online reputation. The simple whim of PayPal can freeze access to funds that you need to support your family, pay bills, take that dream vacation or replace the busted tires on your car.

Most disturbing of all: PayPal does not need a reason to freeze your funds and limit your account. Remember, PayPal says in its User Agreement (that you agreed to) that it can limit and freeze your funds for "any reason." Maybe PayPal needs a large infusion of cash for whatever reason -- or a short term loan on your money. PayPal can freeze accounts on a mass level for no reason at all.

ADDITION 2
Restoring Your PayPal Account if It Has Been Limited

In the event that PayPal limits your account as a result of suspected fraud or other problem, you can restore it to its original, unrestricted state. If PayPal determines that you have been engaging in fraudulent or high-risk activity (such as selling fake merchandise or using stolen credit cards) or that you have not been abiding by the terms of the user agreement (e.g., you've been using PayPal to sell pornographic material or weapons), PayPal will impose limits on your account. Your account might also be limited if you initiate a bank transfer that then fails due to insufficient funds or if you accept a payment that is later disputed by its sender.

PayPal often limits the account's access to certain features, such as sending, withdrawing, or even receiving money. This helps protect any other PayPal users with whom you've been dealing and helps reduce subsequent losses that PayPal would otherwise have to incur.

You know that PayPal has limited your account when your Account Overview page has a pink box that says Account Access Limited. As you might expect, click the "Click here for details" link for an explanation. PayPal prides itself on being good at spotting high-risk behavior, but they also recognize that not all high-risk transactions are necessarily fraudulent or bad and not all disputes are the seller's fault. Thus, PayPal has an appeals process for those who have had their accounts limited.

Filing an Appeal

Needless to say, the best thing you can do if your account has been limited is to precisely follow the instructions on the web site and in the notification email you receive. Often, this entails completing a sequence of steps to provide PayPal with evidence of ownership of the PayPal account, ownership of the financials attached to the account, and verification of your own identity and address.

Only after you have completed all the required steps will a PayPal Account Review Representative review your account. For instance, if PayPal asks you to fax several documents, your account will not be reviewed until you submit all requested documents and have completed all the remaining steps.

In addition, make sure to double-check the email you received notifying you of your account's limited access, because the PayPal Account Review Representative might have added extra steps for you to complete that are not listed on the web site. For instance, if you are a seller on eBay, PayPal will likely request tracking information for items you've delivered and proof of inventory for additional items you're currently selling.

If you lose the email, you might not necessarily be able to find all the steps to complete on the PayPal web site; in this case, your best bet is to call PayPal. However, if you no longer have access to your email account, you might have bigger problems to deal with than just your limited account.

A Last Resort

If you're really in a bind and cannot complete the steps requested of you for legitimate reasons, you can always escalate your issue by writing a letter to a PayPal executive, contacting the Better Business Bureau, or working with a legal representative. Escalation in itself is not a guarantee that your issue will be resolved, but if your issue is legitimate, it is likely that a new pair of eyes, perhaps with more experience and background, will look at your issue and help reach a fair resolution.

END OF ADDITION 2

Is There Life After PayPal?

Are there any alternatives out there today that are as "good" as PayPal?
When PayPal first launched back in 1999, it was obviously just about the only online payment transfer system set up that was actually backed by some serious venture capitalist and talented developers. In fact, in the beginning, PayPal was offering as much as $20 for people to sign up with them. Today, PayPal acts like they don't need your business at all.

Luckily, there are several viable alternatives to PayPal. Most of these viable PayPal alternatives came into existence because it was realized that there was a large pool of people who were dissatisfied with PayPal or there were people who simply could not use PayPal anymore due to the fact that their accounts will limited by PayPal. All of these people needed a place to go; all of these people still have money that they needed to send and money that they needed to receive. Inventive (and in some case opportunistic) entrepreneurs saw the need and attempted to fill the void with their own startups and services.

Over the years we've see several come and several go. Today, there are still several PayPal alternatives that started some time ago that are still with us today. They have grown, improved, and have gained a reputation for solid performance and customer service. There is "life after PayPal."

First, PayPal is where it is today as THE number one e-commerce solution because it was one of the first companies out there to offer the service that they do.
Second, PayPal ended up being a perfect fit for users of such popular and widely used services like eBay. This fact alone propelled PayPal to the number one spot. PayPal remains number one -- in spite of all their problems -- because they are being protected by eBay and because they are going through a phenomenal growth period where new users from around the world keep signing up on a daily basis. These new signups make up for the business lost by their horrible business practices.

PayPal -- the company -- is broken. The company shows no willingness to change its criminal and fraudulent behavior. In fact, any thing that has happened in the past five years to make PayPal a better company, have resulted only because of litigation (a court compelled PayPal to make changes). That is not the kind of company you can trust with your money. The NoPayPal Network is packed with good reasons as to why you should not use PayPal. PayPal is a company that you cannot rely on. We would be making a grave error in not offering alternatives to our members. Why? Because life goes on -- you go on. You still have to sell stuff or buy stuff on eBay, you still have to make a living and be able to send and receive money easily without a lot of hassles.
You have to do all of these things -- without PayPal.



I wish you all the best with Paypal, if you're their customer.
And wish you to solve all the problems as soon as possible, if you already have them.
Good luck.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 08:11 by 4seasons »


« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2016, 06:58 »
0
criminal and fraudulent behavior, lol. i guess thats why everyone uses paypal, even the most respectable retailers

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2016, 07:20 »
+3
criminal and fraudulent behavior, lol. i guess thats why everyone uses paypal, even the most respectable retailers


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/B0Ss1cbvMdmsHpn1LkgJZz/paypal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32810280

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33009774 (they backtracked on this one)

Most famously, a couple of years back, they froze the account of a person dealing in supplying portaloos for festivals, as his transactions were 'irregular'. Interestingly, although on camera (Watchdog I think, but it might have been another consumer programme) PP were confronted with, and acknowleged, the fact that the business was clearly seasonally dependent, they refused to lift the freeze until all their procedures had been gone through. Usually when confronted with the facts on consumer programmes, companies immediately concede and make very rapid amends.

All that said, I have to say I've had fast and helpful responses any time I've had to contact them.

Chichikov

« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2016, 07:35 »
+1
"• You logged into your PayPal account from a location that was not your usual log in location"

It happened me some months ago.
I have changed computer and I have connected to the Paypal site when I was abroad.
I got a message telling that my account will be blocked unless I type a code that they will send me to the mobile phone number that I have indicated on the site.
Problem: few time before I have changed my phone number and forgotten to update the info on my Paypal profile…
So I called to the customers service to explain the situation.
I have spoken with different gentle persons and we solved the problem enough easily and fast.

But they clearly advice me to not connect to their system from another computer and from a location different from the usual one.

Tror

« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2016, 07:52 »
+3
Sorry to hear that and I hope you can work it somehow out.

It is very well known that paypal is on the edge of fraud sometimes. They are not trustworthy! They had lawsuits in various countries and only get out by settling before the thing goes to court or by hiding behind shady legal constructions in Luxembourg.

Now you will have an army of fanboys replying that they never had a problem and therefore it must be safe. No matter how many reports of honest people with problems are out there. How many lawsuits had been filed, documentaries had been filmed and articles published. For them it is safe. Period. And it always just happens to the others. And it is always the others fault lol. Like beginning alcoholics. You are not like that, right? Addicted get just the others, but it could never happen to you :-)

The problem is that so many people who blindy use it block the way to serious and professional alternatives. We need a company that does not block your account without or with ridiculous reasons. Freezes your money, violates regional laws, charges you with ridiculous high exchange rates, excludes you because you live in the wrong country, blocks your account because you work with unwanted subjects or people, etc. etc.

Stop using Paypal. Demand alternatives from the agencies and your business partners.

« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2016, 09:03 »
+7
Paypal is always great and everyone loves it (me included) until there's a problem.  And then it's deservedly hated.  You just have to hope for the best.

SquirrelPower

« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2016, 09:36 »
+2
Thanks for posting this, I didn't realize it was this bad and risky and will look at changing to another service after this months pay.  How are the others? Skrill? Moneybookers? are they just as bad or risky?

Chichikov

« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2016, 09:51 »
+5
Sorry to hear that and I hope you can work it somehow out.

It is very well known that paypal is on the edge of fraud sometimes. They are not trustworthy! They had lawsuits in various countries and only get out by settling before the thing goes to court or by hiding behind shady legal constructions in Luxembourg.

Now you will have an army of fanboys replying that they never had a problem and therefore it must be safe. No matter how many reports of honest people with problems are out there. How many lawsuits had been filed, documentaries had been filmed and articles published. For them it is safe. Period. And it always just happens to the others. And it is always the others fault lol. Like beginning alcoholics. You are not like that, right? Addicted get just the others, but it could never happen to you :-)

The problem is that so many people who blindy use it block the way to serious and professional alternatives. We need a company that does not block your account without or with ridiculous reasons. Freezes your money, violates regional laws, charges you with ridiculous high exchange rates, excludes you because you live in the wrong country, blocks your account because you work with unwanted subjects or people, etc. etc.

Stop using Paypal. Demand alternatives from the agencies and your business partners.

The fact is that the minority of people having problems (they exist) always comes to lament on forums… (can you tell me what is the % of people having had problems with Paypal? what is the % of people having unsolved problems with Paypal?)
And the majority of people not having problems never comes to lament on forums…

So, like always and like everywhere, the minority make a lot of more noise than the majority.

« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2016, 09:53 »
+9
so there are a few stories where things go wrong, of course, they have about a billion transactions per day and around 184 million active accounts, suggesting paypal is a fraud and evil and illegal, what not, is just bullsh!t

« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2016, 09:55 »
+4
SquirrelPower - skril and moneybookers are the same company, and are more expensive and less reliable than paypal, dont believe the scaremongers, paypal works great

« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2016, 13:28 »
+1
I dont have problems with Paypal myself yet (touch wood), and let's hope that i will never do (knock wood, again). But i can tell that the number of people who have problems with them is not negligible.
I happened to hire some people for voice work (this year)for my videos and pay them with Paypal. At least 2 out of 5 have their funds on hold for 30 days - those who told me about it (one is from the US, the other from Portugal).
And, i was having Paypal as the only option of payment on my website for a while, until a couple of months ago when i realized that the number of abandoned carts at the point the clients see Paypal as the payment processor is high; and some people emailed me to ask if i offer any other payment option than Paypal. So i added Stripe as another option, and to my surprise, more than 50% clients have chosen Stripe to pay since then.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 13:42 by asmai »

« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2016, 13:39 »
0
why were there funds held by paypal? i heard stories too, and always turns out the account holder hadnt submitted all documents, or had to explain suspect activity, like logging from another country, to get their account released. if you dont know the full story, its hard to say whos at fault.

« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2016, 13:44 »
0
PayPal has been great for me. I've been with them for years since they started elance way back around 1999.

I had one  small issue a couple of years ago, called them on the phone and they were courteous and helped me resolve it immediately - it was actually my mistake, but they waived a fee anyway, and could not have been more helpful.

I logged in when I was in Chicago, Illinois and then in West Lafayette, Indiana while traveling last year (I live in NY) to invoice two different web clients, and had no issues at all.

I had a dispute on elance with a client who stiffed me many years ago, after making some payments. I was disappointed in their seller protection procedures and complained, and this had no negative effect on my account.

Bank and credit card companies will occasionally freeze an account when you make a large purchase while traveling - it's fraud protection on their part - and a simple phone call will generally resolve the issue. It's not restricted to PayPal. That list doesn't sound like anything out of the ordinary.

I'm sorry you had a problem, and I hope it is resolved, but you shouldn't scare people away from using a reliable company that lets people sell to buyers around the world. In the US, if someone sends you a check in Euros or Pounds or some other foreign currency, you can't cash it, but for a small fee (less than a bank's wire transfer fee which another way to received foreign currency directly), PayPal lets you receive currency from around the world.

I'm not a fangirl but I'm just sharing some examples from nearly 20 years of experience with them.

« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2016, 13:53 »
+2
Of course i can not tell for sure, but during that time i also received an email (mass email) from Paypal itself saying they are settling law suits about the same problem, they have to pay for holding funds for no reason. So they do admit their fault, and yet, it's still happening.
The one i hired from Portugal said Paypal holds her fund because she is new "seller", and Paypal says if i write to them to verify that i did receive the service from her, the funds will be released. So i did, and Paypal released the funds for her that time, but then they hold again the next time, i wrote again and said all transactions from me to her will be made only after i receive the service. I received an email from Paypal saying that they will release for her as one time courtesy, but no more, stating no reason. So what is that? She is not at fault, apparently, because they wouldn't do courtesy if she is.

« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2016, 14:03 »
+1
Looks like people outside the US have more problems with Paypal. If you are selling from your website and have clients from other countries, it may be best to offer other payment options on top of Paypal, because many of your clients may not like Paypal, that's what i have discovered with my website recently.

« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2016, 14:15 »
0
I've had no problems with foreign clients this past year - from Ireland, the UK, and Germany, but that's just my limited experience. Most of my clients are US-based.

« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2016, 14:45 »
0
It's always hard because you only get one side on a forum. It's not like paypal can give their side as that would involve giving up the customer's details. Who knows how many of the people are legitimately shady or at least breach clearly stated terms. Not saying the OP has or is, but he could be the 1% of the 1% that has actually been wronged.

« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2016, 14:56 »
0
I've had no problems with foreign clients this past year - from Ireland, the UK, and Germany, but that's just my limited experience. Most of my clients are US-based.

I wouldn't know i had problems if not for a couple of clients who wrote to ask, i could have missed lot of sales before without knowing. Most of my customers are from the US too. Since i added Stripe, more than half of the US clients also chose Stripe, and on the payment page layout, Paypal is the first option, Stripe is the second, so those who chose Stripe should have seen Paypal.

« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2016, 14:58 »
+1
And I remember many years ago,  a client used her dad credit card to pay for illustration service, which I didn't know obviously because we can't see how they pay....and after a her dad did not recognize the charge and called the credit card company who blocked my account, and basically I had to swallow a charge back and reimburse the money to her dad....and wait for her to pay me back.

Another time,  someone tried to do a chargeback after six months of the sale but it did not blocked my account because six months is passed the limit, however I called paypal, and the operator and I thought that maybe someone's paypal got hacked and maybe someone was trying to get chargebacks  on past sales, or maybe someone did not recognize a charge, in any case, six months was passed the time they could request chargebacks, and it did not affect me.

The last problem I had was with this account I have now.  I was adding an extra credit card and the verification and didn't go through, you know those couple of cents they charge to your card to confirm is yours... That mishap alone blocked my account because I could not verify the cents.

I went in dispair mode, because I got that email where you need to send copies of your ID to verify your account....but then, I decided to phone Paypal directly and explain that the credit card didn't compute the verification, I couldn't find it. And the operator found out what the problem was and unblocked my account imediately....

So, things happen, but I think is worse when you receive paypal from freelance from clients you get on the internet....

If you only deal with marketplaces, stock image companies and PODS, usually there is no charge backs or disputes, as far as I know...




« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 15:01 by sweetgirll »

« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2016, 16:02 »
+1
PayPal is an expemsive service. They catch more than 2% of every payment. They take money for nothing.
Hopefully the most sellers will make paypal more expensive than other payment options. That would be the deaf of PayPal.
Iam considering to use Bitcoins without greedy bank monopols and hidden fees.

« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2016, 16:14 »
0
every financial organization.. be it banks, credit union, etc.. and of course, paypal ...
will freeze your funds, if something is out of profile. it has nothing to do with you being a crook
or the organization trying to squeeze money from you.
why would they??? they live on your / our money and transaction.

when i was starting out in business, i had lots of banks doing the same thing to me,
or calling me if i suddenly try to charge a very large purchase, or suddenly came into a big contract and got a very large cheque to deposit.

it is to protect themselves??? yes! it is to protect me??? definitely too.
wouldn't you be thankful if the security agent stop the cashier to ask to speak you you first
before approving the account??? i was.

the only time i had a fraud committed on my account was when i was on vacation
and one of the stores went to use my credit card illegally. the next day, it was charged
in a very large sale in australia, and another sale in sweden.
obviously, the "nice people" in australia and sweden did not question the sales.
 
when you think over this, you need to remember, not every is out to get you;
not the bank, nor paypal...

all in all, the fraud transaction were overturned by my credit card company
and my credit history was not affected. my bank and the credit card both informed me
to double-check to make sure those transaction were cleared from my credit history.

just the crooks.

« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 01:42 »
+3
r2d2,  2% for nothing? how about those 10000 employees they need to pay? do people even realize that every service cost money?  and that normal banks charge fees too? hidden fees? literally all fees paypal charges are disclosed in their terms. terms everyone accepted when they opened an account. bitcoins is the most volatile currency in the world . good luck with that. let me know which agency pays in bitcoins

Chichikov

« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2016, 02:10 »
+1
PayPal is an expemsive service. They catch more than 2% of every payment. They take money for nothing.
Hopefully the most sellers will make paypal more expensive than other payment options. That would be the deaf of PayPal.
Iam considering to use Bitcoins without greedy bank monopols and hidden fees.

Of course the services offered by your bank are free…
When you take money from the ATM with your credit card it is free…

All is free but Paypal……

« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2016, 02:13 »
+3
I had my account frozen 2 weeks ago and initially it was rather confusing as to why.

I phoned Paypal and customer support was just brilliant.  They asked me to simply provide proof of ID and a bank statement to show my Paypal withdrawals.

Yes I too have been a customer for 8 years but the World has changed in that time.  I welcome any financial establishment to check and double check those customers.  I've had my bank account attacked twice (luckily without serious issues) so let's keep these thieves on their toes.

BTW I also contacted Paypal last year when I had paid for a $20K camera and it turned out to be fraudulent.  I got every penny back!

« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2016, 06:45 »
+1
The title of this thread says "without any evident reason", but i think there is typically a reason why something has happened to one's account...something is missing, something has changed, or something looks suspicious. I can imagine how frustrating it is and what a pain in the a$$ it is when it happens, but i can also imagine how many scams get pulled on paypal globally on a daily basis.


I understand how they must have to be diligent to protect everyone's money, and when something goes wrong with the account of an honest person who is just trying to get paid, it stinks. I sympathize with those who have been through the hassle and hope i never have to deal with it with paypal.




Tror

« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2016, 08:05 »
+2
The title of this thread says "without any evident reason", but i think there is typically a reason why something has happened to one's account...

No. Most of the times there is no reason. Paypal is like a overly jealous Boy/Girlfriend who sees evidence for cheating in everything. As a user you cannot see what will make them freeze your account. You do not ahve to do anything wrong. And no, this has nothing to do with security: part of their business model is to freeze funds and earn money with that cash, then they release it again. It is a typical banking game.

« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2016, 08:14 »
+3
The title of this thread says "without any evident reason", but i think there is typically a reason why something has happened to one's account...something is missing, something has changed, or something looks suspicious. I can imagine how frustrating it is and what a pain in the a$$ it is when it happens, but i can also imagine how many scams get pulled on paypal globally on a daily basis.


I understand how they must have to be diligent to protect everyone's money, and when something goes wrong with the account of an honest person who is just trying to get paid, it stinks. I sympathize with those who have been through the hassle and hope i never have to deal with it with paypal.

life is such, we have to expect some trouble, but some people will insist travel by plane is dangerous just because 10 planes crashed, yet will drive a car cluelessly how many cars crashes occur.
as for bank teller machine and credit card being free, i met a man once who told me how he thought
department stores credit card was the best thing since sliced bread as all "i have these furniture in my apartment and all  i  pay is  xxx dollars every month, clueless of what the double-digit interest payment is all about.

 ;D

Tror

« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2016, 11:32 »
+1
The title of this thread says "without any evident reason", but i think there is typically a reason why something has happened to one's account...something is missing, something has changed, or something looks suspicious. I can imagine how frustrating it is and what a pain in the a$$ it is when it happens, but i can also imagine how many scams get pulled on paypal globally on a daily basis.


I understand how they must have to be diligent to protect everyone's money, and when something goes wrong with the account of an honest person who is just trying to get paid, it stinks. I sympathize with those who have been through the hassle and hope i never have to deal with it with paypal.

life is such, we have to expect some trouble, but some people will insist travel by plane is dangerous just because 10 planes crashed, yet will drive a car cluelessly how many cars crashes occur.
as for bank teller machine and credit card being free, i met a man once who told me how he thought
department stores credit card was the best thing since sliced bread as all "i have these furniture in my apartment and all  i  pay is  xxx dollars every month, clueless of what the double-digit interest payment is all about.

 ;D

There are far more paypal accounts limited and frozen than planes crashed. What is your personal risk limit? Why risk it at all?

If I open a bank account I do not go to the one who is expensive, might steal your money and "might" screw up. I go to the most efficient, cost efficient and safe one.


« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2016, 16:35 »
0
PayPal is an expemsive service. They catch more than 2% of every payment. They take money for nothing.
Hopefully the most sellers will make paypal more expensive than other payment options. That would be the deaf of PayPal.
Iam considering to use Bitcoins without greedy bank monopols and hidden fees.

Of course the services offered by your bank are free…
When you take money from the ATM with your credit card it is free…

All is free but Paypal……

of course my atm service is free world wide.
With my DKB credit card.
Also my Bank account is totaly free with Sparda Bank West.  ;D
There is no need for PayPal...
Paypal work together with the US agencies they make a monoply by giving no othrer payment option thats it.
Its the same scam like Mastercard, Visa, American Express etc. do since years.

But there are always some idiots who pay 2% and more for these great service ;D

« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 17:15 by r2d2 »

« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2016, 16:36 »
+4
The title of this thread says "without any evident reason", but i think there is typically a reason why something has happened to one's account...

No. Most of the times there is no reason. Paypal is like a overly jealous Boy/Girlfriend who sees evidence for cheating in everything. As a user you cannot see what will make them freeze your account. You do not ahve to do anything wrong. And no, this has nothing to do with security: part of their business model is to freeze funds and earn money with that cash, then they release it again. It is a typical banking game.


No. In their eyes, there IS a reason. Maybe just not in yours.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 16:39 by cathyslife »

« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2016, 16:45 »
0
r2d2,  2% for nothing? how about those 10000 employees they need to pay? do people even realize that every service cost money?  and that normal banks charge fees too? hidden fees? literally all fees paypal charges are disclosed in their terms. terms everyone accepted when they opened an account. bitcoins is the most volatile currency in the world . good luck with that. let me know which agency pays in bitcoins
yes. But its a service that i never wanted.
No agencie pay in Bitcoins because with Bitcoins they can not make 2% like they do withe there PayPal cooperation.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 16:48 by r2d2 »

« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2016, 17:04 »
0
SquirrelPower - skril and moneybookers are the same company, and are more expensive and less reliable than paypal, dont believe the scaremongers, paypal works great
yeah it works so fantastic. And you think its free but as a seller i calculate the 3% percent in my prices. And you as a buyer pay these 3% by higher prices.
Its so amazing.

You dont have any clue how this payment-mafia works and that you are the one that pay for there profits. Do you really think they profits go to there employes?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 17:16 by r2d2 »

« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2016, 09:05 »
+1
The title of this thread says "without any evident reason", but i think there is typically a reason why something has happened to one's account...something is missing, something has changed, or something looks suspicious. I can imagine how frustrating it is and what a pain in the a$$ it is when it happens, but i can also imagine how many scams get pulled on paypal globally on a daily basis.


I understand how they must have to be diligent to protect everyone's money, and when something goes wrong with the account of an honest person who is just trying to get paid, it stinks. I sympathize with those who have been through the hassle and hope i never have to deal with it with paypal.

I think the OP said it was because they deemed one of his images to be pornographic, which he disagrees with. They don't allow paypal links on a site with pornographic material, it's in their terms.

« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2016, 16:23 »
0
The title of this thread says "without any evident reason", but i think there is typically a reason why something has happened to one's account...something is missing, something has changed, or something looks suspicious. I can imagine how frustrating it is and what a pain in the a$$ it is when it happens, but i can also imagine how many scams get pulled on paypal globally on a daily basis.


I understand how they must have to be diligent to protect everyone's money, and when something goes wrong with the account of an honest person who is just trying to get paid, it stinks. I sympathize with those who have been through the hassle and hope i never have to deal with it with paypal.

I think the OP said it was because they deemed one of his images to be pornographic, which he disagrees with. They don't allow paypal links on a site with pornographic material, it's in their terms.

That makes sense.

« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2016, 18:57 »
+2
I had my account limited because of an European Law about "money laundering" that happens whenever you reach an yearly given amount for the first time. So that was great for me :) But of course ... it was bad ;)

I can't blame Paypal for this. Just tell everyone my account was limited.

But pay attention: limit is not something that blocks your work: you can RECEIVE money. Sometimes limit needs some actions to be unlocked: in my case they asked me some documents to prove that I'm me. And I don't feel bad about this. Someone else could have done some identity theft ... and now my money could be gone.

Limit has been removed in 3 workdays after my answer.

What I could blame paypal about is their abolutely wasteful customer care: I've followed word for word their instructions to contact them: I waited on the phone for the customer service 30 minutes. And it was enough. They never answered. This sucks.


« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2016, 08:19 »
0
I updated my main post with two additions - a bit more helpful (I hope) info.
Just a little reminder: my intention was not a one more lamentation about 'bad Paypal', but to warn other users of PP to be prepared for unpleasant surprises and a little help from what I learned with my own skin.

« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2016, 08:36 »
0
Thanks for posting this, I didn't realize it was this bad and risky and will look at changing to another service after this months pay.  How are the others? Skrill? Moneybookers? are they just as bad or risky?

You're welcome. Skrill, Payoneer and other online payment gates are all risky, more or less. The same as any bank. So you should always use a classic rule: never put all your eggs in one basket". We all heard a lot of stories about fail of big banks and companies through history. I himself use another rule: "hope for the best, prepare for the worst". And it was my mistake to build ~80% of my online payments on Paypal.

« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2016, 09:00 »
0
I think the OP said it was because they deemed one of his images to be pornographic, which he disagrees with. They don't allow paypal links on a site with pornographic material, it's in their terms.

Of course it was not a porn. If it was because of porn I would not posting here crying about bad PP. Maybe someone would, but not me.
I studied Paypal TOS and Agreement carefully before, and learned all their 'updates'. I was careful with usage of PP buttons.

More clarification: some third party claimed copyright issue because of one photo I found on a Public domain site and put in on one of my photography gallery, just for free browsing, among hundreds of other "beautiful photographs we can learn from". Third party contacted Godaddy and Paypal, because I had PP buttons installed on a subdomain where I was selling my graphics. I had a kind conversation with Godaddy, they asked, what's a problem, maybe I would like to fill a counter-claim etc. After we talked with GD and I explained situation, they gave my 2 weeks to decide. I decided better to remove this photo, because I have no time and nerves to fight. The same I explained to Paypal. No reply from them and my account has been frozen.

« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2016, 10:08 »
+2
I think the OP said it was because they deemed one of his images to be pornographic, which he disagrees with. They don't allow paypal links on a site with pornographic material, it's in their terms.

Of course it was not a porn. If it was because of porn I would not posting here crying about bad PP. Maybe someone would, but not me.
I studied Paypal TOS and Agreement carefully before, and learned all their 'updates'. I was careful with usage of PP buttons.

More clarification: some third party claimed copyright issue because of one photo I found on a Public domain site and put in on one of my photography gallery, just for free browsing, among hundreds of other "beautiful photographs we can learn from". Third party contacted Godaddy and Paypal, because I had PP buttons installed on a subdomain where I was selling my graphics. I had a kind conversation with Godaddy, they asked, what's a problem, maybe I would like to fill a counter-claim etc. After we talked with GD and I explained situation, they gave my 2 weeks to decide. I decided better to remove this photo, because I have no time and nerves to fight. The same I explained to Paypal. No reply from them and my account has been frozen.
Sorry I misunderstood what you said:

"I find out (I believe, I did that) what was the reason. It seems PP didn't like one photo on one of my websites, where PP buttons have been installed."

Didn't realise it was because of copyright violation. I am biting my tongue now, but anyone who's been in this business for a while knows what those "public domain sites" are. Can't say I am too sympathetic about Paypal taking a stand for the copyright holder.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 10:11 by Justanotherphotographer »

« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2016, 11:29 »
0
so there are a few stories where things go wrong, of course, they have about a billion transactions per day and around 184 million active accounts, suggesting paypal is a fraud and evil and illegal, what not, is just bullsh!t

When you personally will get an email about account being limited it will also be bullsh!t?
Your Paypal advocating is childish, arrogant and stupid bullsh!t.

« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2016, 11:46 »
0
Now you will have an army of fanboys replying that they never had a problem and therefore it must be safe. No matter how many reports of honest people with problems are out there. How many lawsuits had been filed, documentaries had been filmed and articles published. For them it is safe. Period. And it always just happens to the others. And it is always the others fault lol.

Yep! And it's a one of places, where stupidity and arrogance can be revealed. Or wisdom, intelligence, unselfish.
I would say, be quiet, if everything goes well, rejoice and hope it'll go in the future.
Be understanding, if someone has problems and try to help.
You never know what can happen with you tomorrow.

« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2016, 12:24 »
+5
if my account gets limited, there is probably a problem i need to resolve, it still isnt fraud and evil and illegal and what not bullsh!t

i have seen it too many time people blame paypal and turns out it was something they didnt act on. one person blamed paypal for everything wrong, turns out he refused to send in his passport, but that he didnt mention until people kept asking him what the full story was

« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2016, 05:51 »
0
if my account gets limited, there is probably a problem i need to resolve, it still isnt fraud and evil and illegal and what not bullsh!t

i have seen it too many time people blame paypal and turns out it was something they didnt act on. one person blamed paypal for everything wrong, turns out he refused to send in his passport, but that he didnt mention until people kept asking him what the full story was

Now your words sound a bit different and I'm kind to agree.
I also saw a lot of blames and lamentations because of various services. And I always thought that the biggest part of it is just a vain cry, because weeper himself did something wrong and always must be a reason why the service is canceled or account is blocked. Until I himself got limited and felt it's consequences.

Even then, in the beginning of April, I didn't cry and didn't blame PP on forums. I just tried to understand, tried to find my mistakes, tried to resolve my problems alone. And only when I saw a one more post about limited account, I decided to create this thread to warn and to help. It's different from the self-pity whimper, accusing something or somebody because of your own mistake.

We can not generalize all situations and can't shake all cases in to one lump. So we can not make generalized conclusions. Every case can be different.

« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2016, 06:14 »
+6
if my account gets limited, there is probably a problem i need to resolve, it still isnt fraud and evil and illegal and what not bullsh!t

i have seen it too many time people blame paypal and turns out it was something they didnt act on. one person blamed paypal for everything wrong, turns out he refused to send in his passport, but that he didnt mention until people kept asking him what the full story was

Now your words sound a bit different and I'm kind to agree.
I also saw a lot of blames and lamentations because of various services. And I always thought that the biggest part of it is just a vain cry, because weeper himself did something wrong and always must be a reason why the service is canceled or account is blocked. Until I himself got limited and felt it's consequences.

Even then, in the beginning of April, I didn't cry and didn't blame PP on forums. I just tried to understand, tried to find my mistakes, tried to resolve my problems alone. And only when I saw a one more post about limited account, I decided to create this thread to warn and to help. It's different from the self-pity whimper, accusing something or somebody because of your own mistake.

We can not generalize all situations and can't shake all cases in to one lump. So we can not make generalized conclusions. Every case can be different.

But you were using photos on your site that you lifted from the internet without tracking down the copyright holder to verify if they were in fact public domain. So isn't this "because weeper himself did something wrong and always must be a reason why the service is cancelled or account is blocked."?


We always complain that it is wrong to expect photographers to have to chase infringements all over the internet and DMCA. Surely what Paypal did is ideal, I mean you are bit less likely to go lifting people's work from random "public domain" sites to draw traffic now right? Or I guess maybe not if you are blaming Paypal rather than yourself?

« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2016, 21:20 »
0
if my account gets limited, there is probably a problem i need to resolve, it still isnt fraud and evil and illegal and what not bullsh!t

i have seen it too many time people blame paypal and turns out it was something they didnt act on. one person blamed paypal for everything wrong, turns out he refused to send in his passport, but that he didnt mention until people kept asking him what the full story was

Now your words sound a bit different and I'm kind to agree.
I also saw a lot of blames and lamentations because of various services. And I always thought that the biggest part of it is just a vain cry, because weeper himself did something wrong and always must be a reason why the service is canceled or account is blocked. Until I himself got limited and felt it's consequences.

Even then, in the beginning of April, I didn't cry and didn't blame PP on forums. I just tried to understand, tried to find my mistakes, tried to resolve my problems alone. And only when I saw a one more post about limited account, I decided to create this thread to warn and to help. It's different from the self-pity whimper, accusing something or somebody because of your own mistake.

We can not generalize all situations and can't shake all cases in to one lump. So we can not make generalized conclusions. Every case can be different.

But you were using photos on your site that you lifted from the internet without tracking down the copyright holder to verify if they were in fact public domain. So isn't this "because weeper himself did something wrong and always must be a reason why the service is cancelled or account is blocked."?


We always complain that it is wrong to expect photographers to have to chase infringements all over the internet and DMCA. Surely what Paypal did is ideal, I mean you are bit less likely to go lifting people's work from random "public domain" sites to draw traffic now right? Or I guess maybe not if you are blaming Paypal rather than yourself?

From all info I find out it had to be public domain site, not "public domain". I was deceived. And I'm blaming myself that I trusted them.

What Paypal did is not ideal. Ideal would be if they'd analyzed the situation after I contacted and explained, and either unblocked my account, either limited for a month. But not for 6 months, ruining all other business, without any reply. Of course, they have thousands accounts being limited and thousands emails from their owners, so they simply allow himself to not reply to some poor guy in Europe.

Am I angry? Of course!
Am I blaming Paypal because I think they acted inadequately, their punishment is unfair and they misused because they're Paypal? Yes!
Am I blaming Paypal without a reason? No.

Am I blaming himself for my mistakes (or "mistakes") and am I learning from them? How do you think?
If you think "no", you don't understand my situation, my feelings, my intention and meaning of this original post (in fact, you do not need that). But then any discussion will be only technical, lifeless and vain dispute between PP lovers and PP haters, where both sides will not change their mind and attitude in no way.
If you think "yes", you should not ask questions like this one.
If you don't know, then you should read one more time original post and my answers to other comments. If you want, of course. But if would be you or someone else, it must be read with open heart, pure insight, without preconception and pharisaic skepticism.
   
>>> a few words to all

You know, when I posted this original thread, I knew there is an army of Paypal fans and lovers. I knew that this topic will not be sugary and popular, and will be a lot of comments from opponents. That's fine, everyone of us have a right to free expression and opinion. But for me it was (and is) very interesting to look on human behavior. It's the most interesting part: to analyze reactions from different people. No, I'm not very important, I'm just a poor guy with big problems. But let me give a little advice: all of you, who're opponents today, try not to become a pharisee. You can comment anything, blame me, curse me or rejoice my misfortune. I don't care.

But if one day you'll meet similar problems (I do not wish that), you will remember this post and maybe will come here to read some helpful info, - that's I care about.
And maybe you'll remember my situation and will think twice before doing something unusual with Paypal, or you will come here to check a list of reasons of limited account - that's I care about.

It may sound very pompous, but all great things start from small.
So don't be a pharisee. For the sake of your own well-being.
Karma is a b!tch.

Good luck.

« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2016, 03:23 »
0
I agree with what you are saying. We all have all suffered problems with this business. As this a photography forum a lot of us suffer the problem of sites stealing our work and giving it away. Although different and unrelated to the terrible injustice you have suffered it does help me sympathise with how b*tt hurt and all up in your feelings you are over the whole thing. Also well said regarding karma being a b!tch.

Tror

« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2016, 05:55 »
0
Most people seem to use the argument "If you account gets limited there must be a reason" to justify their trust in paypal. Until it affects themselves. Maybe there is a reason. Maybe you gave them reasons. But believe me, in many cases there is non. I think meanwhile there should be enough testimonies around to make people careful.

I say the same as the OP. Be warned and do not trust. Not that I have any personal advantage of that.

« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2016, 06:27 »
+2
if there is non, call paypal and if they agree they will release your account, they have no reason to limit your account for fun, nor to steal your money, nor to get interest, nor to buy weapons of mass destruction. 184 million users tells me they are quite legit and trusted

« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2016, 20:19 »
0
I agree with what you are saying. We all have all suffered problems with this business. As this a photography forum a lot of us suffer the problem of sites stealing our work and giving it away. Although different and unrelated to the terrible injustice you have suffered it does help me sympathise with how b*tt hurt and all up in your feelings you are over the whole thing. Also well said regarding karma being a b!tch.

Thank you.
And yes, we all have some kind of problems with thieves, copycats, low earnings etc and etc. And the last one thing to destroy us is to close payment gates. Fine.
But, from the deep desperation we rise up again and go forward with a new hope.

« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2016, 20:25 »
0
Most people seem to use the argument "If you account gets limited there must be a reason" to justify their trust in paypal. Until it affects themselves. Maybe there is a reason. Maybe you gave them reasons. But believe me, in many cases there is non. I think meanwhile there should be enough testimonies around to make people careful.

I say the same as the OP. Be warned and do not trust. Not that I have any personal advantage of that.

Sometimes we make mistakes, sometimes someone else do harm to us. That's life.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. And keep your faith in what you're doing.

« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2016, 20:30 »
+1
if there is non, call paypal and if they agree they will release your account, they have no reason to limit your account for fun, nor to steal your money, nor to get interest, nor to buy weapons of mass destruction. 184 million users tells me they are quite legit and trusted

I'm preparing a very detailed explanation one more time. I have a little hope they will change something. Will see.
And maybe, if they'll not reply, I'll call them.
Thank you.

« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2016, 20:16 »
0
Just to chime in on this. PayPal hit me hard last week. Not only did they limit my account, but they notified all my buyers to open up disputes saying my account was compromised. Now I have to go through all 100+ odd transactions and respond to them individually. I was like, what in the flying F!

Not to mention that I have future payments using PayPal, but my account is down. Total BS in a handbasket.

I came across the idea of stealth and been going over this guide: newbielink:http://www.slideshare.net/AuctionEssistance/ebay-incognitostealth [nonactive]

But I am not entirely sure if this is the best way to go? Does anyone have some experience on stealth?

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2016, 03:06 »
+5
So PayPal came to the conclusion that somebody had accessed your account, and as a security measure, they limited your account to protect you and your clients? God, they're so evil aren't they?!

« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2016, 18:17 »
0
Just to chime in on this. PayPal hit me hard last week. Not only did they limit my account, but they notified all my buyers to open up disputes saying my account was compromised. Now I have to go through all 100+ odd transactions and respond to them individually. I was like, what in the flying F!

Not to mention that I have future payments using PayPal, but my account is down. Total BS in a handbasket.

I came across the idea of stealth and been going over this guide: http://www.slideshare.net/AuctionEssistance/ebay-incognitostealth

But I am not entirely sure if this is the best way to go? Does anyone have some experience on stealth?


Please check two links I provided on my original post in this thread. I red some similar stories on these websites. I'm sure you'll find some help there. Good luck!

« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2016, 18:43 »
+3
So PayPal came to the conclusion that somebody had accessed your account, and as a security measure, they limited your account to protect you and your clients? God, they're so evil aren't they?!

In fact you know nothing about this situation, so your sarcasm is just the way to look smart. Congrats, you got few pluses.
Never be too confident because you never know. Maybe your PP account will be next tomorrow.
I prefer understanding and sympathy instead of arrogance and overconfidence.

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« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2016, 19:15 »
+3
Maybe it will. But if my account gets limited and it's even the tiniest bit my fault... I can guarantee I won't be starting a post saying that my account has been limited for no reason whatsoever.

I appreciate that when bad things happen, people get emotional and look for somebody to blame, but when something like this happens, you want to be finding out exactly what has happened, why it's happened, how it can be fixed and how you can make sure it doesn't happen again. You've not done that if you're saying that there was no evident reason when it turns out there was an evident reason.

As for knowing nothing about this situation.... I respond based on the information provided. If insufficient information has been provided, then that's not my fault. I was replying to nuzzo anyway, do you know more about his situation than the rest of us?




« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2016, 19:45 »
+3
Maybe it will. But if my account gets limited and it's even the tiniest bit my fault... I can guarantee I won't be starting a post saying that my account has been limited for no reason whatsoever.

I appreciate that when bad things happen, people get emotional and look for somebody to blame, but when something like this happens, you want to be finding out exactly what has happened, why it's happened, how it can be fixed and how you can make sure it doesn't happen again. You've not done that if you're saying that there was no evident reason when it turns out there was an evident reason.

As for knowing nothing about this situation.... I respond based on the information provided. If insufficient information has been provided, then that's not my fault. I was replying to nuzzo anyway, do you know more about his situation than the rest of us?

It DID happen that Paypal holds funds for no obvious reason, they DID lost a class action lawsuit for that - I have received an email (mass), from Paypal itself informing they were settling that lawsuit, just a couple of months ago. So yes, Paypal did admit they hold funds for no reason. And yes, by doing so they earn interest on those funds. I can not say anything about the cases presented here, but i would not conclude that Paypal is totally clean and that everyone who got his/her account limited is because of their fault. Paypal is not an angel, far from it.

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  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2016, 23:18 »
+4
I don't know the details of the case, but even if PayPal admitted that they have held funds for no reason in the past, that doesn't automatically mean that they are holding your funds for no reason. Did they lose a class action lawsuit that related to holding your funds for no reason?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying paypal are clean as a whistle or that they've done no wrong. It's just that people often muddy the waters by presenting evidence that somebody is in the wrong, when it's not really evidence that somebody is in the wrong. Not just in this thread, but loads of them in other places. For every one (seemingly) valid case of wrongdoing, there's usually ten to a hundred ones like this....

"I'm minding my own business selling heroin online and then PayPal put a hold on my account for no reason whatsoever. I hate PayPal,  PayPal are terrible."

An extreme and absurd example which I just made up, but you get the point. However abstract and tenuous the reason, there will always be a reason. Even in the lawsuit, there will have been reasons, it's just the courts felt those reasons weren't good enough. And I'd assume that since they've lost this case, the likelihood of somebody having a hold put on their account for no reason will have decreased considerably.

« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2016, 19:17 »
0
if there is non, call paypal and if they agree they will release your account, they have no reason to limit your account for fun, nor to steal your money, nor to get interest, nor to buy weapons of mass destruction. 184 million users tells me they are quite legit and trusted

I'm preparing a very detailed explanation one more time. I have a little hope they will change something. Will see.
And maybe, if they'll not reply, I'll call them.
Thank you.

Did you get an email telling you that your Paypal account has limited access and if so did you click on the email? If so, those emails are scams to get access to your account.  Once that happens, PayPal will place your account on hold until the situation is cleared up. I got two of those emails today, both formatted slightly differently.  I deleted them, then went into my account and it's clean with a grand sitting in it.


« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2016, 04:05 »
+4
The idea that they are freezing accounts to get interest on the money makes no sense. Have you taken a look at interest rates lately? PP get at least 3-4% every transaction, instantly, thanks to fees and currency spreads. They make more money the more you use your account. Like every bank they don't need to be underhand to fleece you, they have 1000s of ways all above board.

Tror

« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2016, 06:44 »
+2
Paypal has a long and proven track record of misbehaving in various countries (various law suits and court orders) and certainly cares more about its own profits than any "account security". If my bank would "limit" my bank account for whatever BS reason I would close my relationship with them in a second.

<rant>
I do not know why there are still people out there attacking those who have problems with Paypals questionable practices. Even if you have a good relationship with them for the moment and they are convenient: your own benefit and security should always be the first to have in mind and being fine for the moment does not mean you cannot get into trouble never. They are just a tool. Not more. And in consequence any hint, warning and advice of taking care of others should be welcome. Instead there are some fanboys defending PP (or any other big company they like) without any logic and discrediting those who are in trouble without doing anything wrong. I don`t know who would behave like this or see benefit in it. Maybe some well domesticated consumer cattle? People who do not want to accept the objective arguments which might show that their trust could be misplaced? Who knows... If you are happy with them just continue using them and keep the warnings in mind in case it affects you and thats it.

Any company and legal entity which is not a non-profit, public benefit or co-op type only acts in its own interest and those of the shareholders. The client/consumer/contributor only is useful to nurture the Profits and they only do as much as necessary to keep the flow coming. Its about time that we learn this and start defending our own rights instead of acting on behalf of selfish corporations.

</rant>

« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2016, 07:03 »
+2
I don't particularly want to defend paypal. At the same time I get a bit annoyed when people start a thread saying

"...one morning you can wake up and find out your account has been limited and all your financial life has been paralyzed, regardless the fact how good you was with PP. Without any reason. Just because."

Then it turns out that they had content on their site that violated someone's copyright.

It is just the same as when people come on here complaining that their portfolio has been shut down by a microstock site for no reason, then oops turns out they were stealing other people's work. If you could point to any one of those threads in the hundreds that have been posted here where the OP was innocent I'd love that too. I am sure there are forums set up for those guys too where they club together in an echo chamber and complain how terribly they have been treated.

It's an insult to our intelligence and a waste of our time. That's all.

Tror

« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2016, 07:35 »
+1
I don't particularly want to defend paypal. At the same time I get a bit annoyed when people start a thread saying

"...one morning you can wake up and find out your account has been limited and all your financial life has been paralyzed, regardless the fact how good you was with PP. Without any reason. Just because."

Then it turns out that they had content on their site that violated someone's copyright.

It is just the same as when people come on here complaining that their portfolio has been shut down by a microstock site for no reason, then oops turns out they were stealing other people's work. If you could point to any one of those threads in the hundreds that have been posted here where the OP was innocent I'd love that too. I am sure there are forums set up for those guys too where they club together in an echo chamber and complain how terribly they have been treated.

It's an insult to our intelligence and a waste of our time. That's all.

That is almost never the case. In 90% of the cases the user did nothing wrong or did something which triggered some alert in Paypals system without knowing it (like e.g. logging in from another computer or country or just receiving a bit more money).

The case why threads start like "...one morning you can wake up and find out your account has been limited and all your financial life has been paralyzed, regardless the fact how good you was with PP. Without any reason. Just because." is that it hits you totally by surprise and for no reason and because before you ignored all warnings and thought it could never happen to you.

« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2016, 10:52 »
+2
where did you get 90 percent from? tinfoil hat

Tror

« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2016, 13:09 »
+3
tinfoil hat

Thats now the level of conversation? :P lol Good luck! :D

« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2016, 15:14 »
0
The idea that they are freezing accounts to get interest on the money makes no sense. Have you taken a look at interest rates lately? PP get at least 3-4% every transaction, instantly, thanks to fees and currency spreads. They make more money the more you use your account. Like every bank they don't need to be underhand to fleece you, they have 1000s of ways all above board.

You dont understand. They hold the funds, but still allow transactions. They make money both ways. I have several people working free-lance for me and pay them with Paypal. They can receive the money in their Paypal account but can not withdraw to their bank before 30 days. Paypal earn transaction fees, AND interest for 30 days. Real examples, and many. The problem with Paypal is they are almost a monopoly, unlike the banks. People still have to use them even if they are unhappy about it.

« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2016, 15:19 »
+2
I don't know the details of the case, but even if PayPal admitted that they have held funds for no reason in the past, that doesn't automatically mean that they are holding your funds for no reason.

Exactly the point. With the same logic, people who have problem with Paypal do not deserve to be automatically treated as it is their own fault. You have been acting like a  Paypal fanboy, attacking everyone who had problem with Paypal here. It is just not nice!

« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2016, 17:21 »
+2
tror, where did you get that 90% from ? thumbs? honestly, because it is a made up number.

surely, if your accoutn was accessed by someone else from another country and paypal didnt lock your account down for this activity, you would be here posting about it how incompetent paypal didnt lock your account down

you do realise that paypal has these measures in place to protect YOU?

« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2016, 17:23 »
+5
paypal earns interest of off your money? my word, criminal, no other bank does that.

« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2016, 02:53 »
+1
paypal earns interest of off your money? my word, criminal, no other bank does that.
Seriously, you pretend you dont understand, or am i talking to a 3-years old? Did i say they are criminal because they earn interest? or was i even surprised they earn interest? Read other people posts properly before arguing or talking sarcasm. I am done here, was just very surprised Paypal has so many fanboys who are ready to jump at anyone who are unhappy with paypal. FYI, i am OK with Paypal, i haven't had problem with them (touch wood), but i feel for people who have had. If you can not have any sympathy, try not to be a jerk!

« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2016, 16:17 »
+1
in every comment you mention that paypal is earning interest of off your money, you seem to be wanting to make a point with that, hence my comment. anyway i am not a paypal fanboy, i just dont get onboard the conspiracy train, evil paypal blah blah, they have hundreds of millions of customers, buyers and sellers, if paypal were so evil they werent in business anymore.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2016, 20:22 »
+4
I don't know the details of the case, but even if PayPal admitted that they have held funds for no reason in the past, that doesn't automatically mean that they are holding your funds for no reason.

Exactly the point. With the same logic, people who have problem with Paypal do not deserve to be automatically treated as it is their own fault. You have been acting like a  Paypal fanboy, attacking everyone who had problem with Paypal here. It is just not nice!

I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just pointing out that a lot of the people saying they have had their accounts limited for no reason whatsoever, have in fact, had their accounts limited for a very specific reason. The validity of that reason may be debatable, but it's not like they've just pressed a special button that randomly limits accounts based on star signs, the current price of fish, or whether the account holder likes cats or not.

And it's not so much about 'fault', but more about 'tripping a sensor' that could result in an account hold. If you've been logging into your account from the US for ten years, and then you start logging in from Cambodia and withdrawing to a Cambodian bank account.... then it's your fault if your account gets limited. By that, I don't mean that you're 'at fault', just that your actions have resulted in that hold. Fill out the forms, send in the proof, everything is gravy. Or it should be. As has been pointed out previously... if you checked your PayPal account and somebody had been withdrawing money to a bank account in Cambodia for the last few months without your knowledge, then your first question would be 'why didn't PayPal do anything about this?'

It's not about being a PayPal fan boy. It's about summing up the evidence presented to me and forming an opinion based on that information. And unless im mistaken, I'm yet to come across an instance where it's not understandable, or at least apparent, why paypal may have (rightly or wrongly) put a hold on people's accounts.

And last but not least, for those saying 'wait until it happens to you', sure... I'll be as pissed as the next guy, but anger isn't going to change my opinion of the situation. I feel for the people that this has happened to, don't get me wrong, there's nothing worse than not having access to your own money when you need it, but that doesn't alter the situation. PayPal do what they do, either according to their terms and conditions, or as a means to keep risk to an acceptable level, and thankfully, the great majority of people aren't affected by that.

Tror

« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2016, 04:00 »
+1
What I don`t get is why the PP defenders and fanboys always get so hysterical and emotional.

I mean, what happened happend, what is public is public, what is proven is just there. Soooo....apart from getting emotional: for some, suddenly all the admitted practices, settled lawsuits, testimonials etc. are invalid, disappear overnight, are all soooo justified etc. and everybody coming here posting warnings and problems is bad boy, liar, stole images etc. Paypal obviously is always right lol Denial of truth can be convenient.....

However, as I said in one of my previous posts in this thread: if it works for you just continue happily using it! and just keep the warnings in mind in case it affects you one day! And if not: congrats!

So, just relax guys! If it works for you just go ahead, but please do not discredit and insult those who have trouble with them without causing it or doing wrong....

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2016, 04:11 »
+2
What I don`t get is why the PP defenders and fanboys always get so hysterical and emotional.

I mean, what happened happend, what is public is public, what is proven is just there. Soooo....apart from getting emotional: for some, suddenly all the admitted practices, settled lawsuits, testimonials etc. are invalid, disappear overnight, are all soooo justified etc. and everybody coming here posting warnings and problems is bad boy, liar, stole images etc. Paypal obviously is always right lol Denial of truth can be convenient.....

However, as I said in one of my previous posts in this thread: if it works for you just continue happily using it! and just keep the warnings in mind in case it affects you one day! And if not: congrats!

So, just relax guys! If it works for you just go ahead, but please do not discredit and insult those who have trouble with them without causing it or doing wrong....

Not sure if you're talking about me, but I thought that most of my posts were completely devoid of hysterics, insults, and too a certain extent... emotion. That's how they were coming across to me when I was writing them anyway. Maybe some are interpreting them as some kind of venomous tirade of pure evil... I guess that just highlights the inadequacies of the written language.

« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2016, 05:02 »
+1
What I don`t get is why the PP defenders and fanboys always get so hysterical and emotional.

I mean, what happened happend, what is public is public, what is proven is just there. Soooo....apart from getting emotional: for some, suddenly all the admitted practices, settled lawsuits, testimonials etc. are invalid, disappear overnight, are all soooo justified etc. and everybody coming here posting warnings and problems is bad boy, liar, stole images etc. Paypal obviously is always right lol Denial of truth can be convenient.....

However, as I said in one of my previous posts in this thread: if it works for you just continue happily using it! and just keep the warnings in mind in case it affects you one day! And if not: congrats!

So, just relax guys! If it works for you just go ahead, but please do not discredit and insult those who have trouble with them without causing it or doing wrong....
Some MSG members are maybe hidden workers. For example there was a guy working for Fotolia here at MSG.
I agree. let`s sum up. Keep the warning in your mind, PayPal or FT dont give a **** on single user/ contributor and kick you out at any time they want to.
No for real, that`s true :) Because this i love SS. Never heard similar from SS. Good luck :)

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #75 on: July 12, 2016, 06:16 »
+3
So I'm assuming you now use SS exclusively for invoicing, and the sending and receiving of payments?

« Reply #76 on: July 31, 2016, 19:48 »
0
I got limited a week ago and now I have a couple of payments that I am expecting in the next week. My account is closed completely!

Has anyone heard the term "stealth"?

I read an article on how to go stealth by Auction Essistance, but unsure if it is safe to create a new account, buy a new account or try plead to get PayPal to reopen my account?

Any help would be appreciated.

« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2016, 01:42 »
0
Why did you get limited then shut down? I guess the chances of getting reinstated depend on what you did.

« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2016, 08:14 »
+1
if there is non, call paypal and if they agree they will release your account, they have no reason to limit your account for fun, nor to steal your money, nor to get interest, nor to buy weapons of mass destruction. 184 million users tells me they are quite legit and trusted

I'm preparing a very detailed explanation one more time. I have a little hope they will change something. Will see.
And maybe, if they'll not reply, I'll call them.
Thank you.

I haven't read the whole thread so this may have been said by someone else, but if PP was so critical to your everyday business why wasn't calling them the FIRST thing you did to get an explanation and to see if this issue could be resolved ASAP. Getting on the phone to them would be top of my list... speak to a human being, find out the issue, and then get clear and concise details on what you need to do to resolve the issues. Once you have resolved them get on the phone again and advise the human being that you have done what was requested. It's much easier to fire off an email and wait, and in the meantime research other similar horror stories on the website to back up your belief that Paypal is evil, but I'd take a guess this could have been resolved quicker if you had picked up the phone.

« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2016, 08:29 »
+1
if there is non, call paypal and if they agree they will release your account, they have no reason to limit your account for fun, nor to steal your money, nor to get interest, nor to buy weapons of mass destruction. 184 million users tells me they are quite legit and trusted

I'm preparing a very detailed explanation one more time. I have a little hope they will change something. Will see.
And maybe, if they'll not reply, I'll call them.
Thank you.

I haven't read the whole thread so this may have been said by someone else, but if PP was so critical to your everyday business why wasn't calling them the FIRST thing you did to get an explanation and to see if this issue could be resolved ASAP. Getting on the phone to them would be top of my list... speak to a human being, find out the issue, and then get clear and concise details on what you need to do to resolve the issues. Once you have resolved them get on the phone again and advise the human being that you have done what was requested. It's much easier to fire off an email and wait, and in the meantime research other similar horror stories on the website to back up your belief that Paypal is evil, but I'd take a guess this could have been resolved quicker if you had picked up the phone.


My account had issues where they weren't allowing certain companies put money into my account. I received an email saying that so and so company is trying to send you money and we believe it is fraudulent.  I picked up the phone right away and had a very friendly chat with a rep and problem solved in 5 minutes.  If you have the means to call them, it's the best first step.

« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2016, 08:56 »
+1

The common wisdom in this business has been to never put all of your eggs in one basket, at least when it comes to which agencies you work with and how you distribute your images. I apply the same logic to payments and receiving earnings. I don't want to rely on one company or service for all of my income, so I split it up across a few services: PayPal, Skrill, and bank transfers.

There's also a tax consideration for why I do this (PayPal's 1099-K reporting) but that's a discussion of a different sort and one that you can find plenty of info on with a search of these forums.

But as a general rule of minimizing risk, I don't do anything "exclusively" with one company for any part of my business.

Tror

« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2016, 18:14 »
0

The common wisdom in this business has been to never put all of your eggs in one basket, at least when it comes to which agencies you work with and how you distribute your images. I apply the same logic to payments and receiving earnings. I don't want to rely on one company or service for all of my income, so I split it up across a few services: PayPal, Skrill, and bank transfers.

There's also a tax consideration for why I do this (PayPal's 1099-K reporting) but that's a discussion of a different sort and one that you can find plenty of info on with a search of these forums.

But as a general rule of minimizing risk, I don't do anything "exclusively" with one company for any part of my business.

Fully agree with everything.

« Reply #82 on: May 14, 2017, 18:14 »
0
Has anyone been able to get back on PayPal after they got their appeal denied and got a permanent limitation?

I was looking at this guide: newbielink:https://www.slideshare.net/AuctionEssistance/ebay-incognitostealth [nonactive]

But it seems like a lot of work involved for creating a simple account again.

Wondering if anyone had any success with using PayPal again.

« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2017, 20:21 »
0
I used to use paypal a lot and let my customers pay through paypal with me for creative work i do. I even had PayPal pro in which i paid $30 a month to have the ability to charge credit cards and such.
One customer of mine who has used my vectoring and design services from time to time has issued 2 charge backs for 2 different works i did for him in a span of couple of weeks. At first he played it off like it was an accident and kept on denying anything and it was an accident and kept giving me the run around.
I kept emails and text messages i received from our conversations on him loving my work and saying he sent me money and so forth and showed this as proof when PayPal started investigating the case. Long story short, it doesn't matter, PayPal will issue a charge back and take the amount out of your account if one of your customer issues a charge back AND charge you a FEE of $20 per incident.
This left such a bad taste in my mouth, i no longer do business with PayPal and refuse to give them any percentage of cut they take...

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2017, 21:11 »
0
Chargebacks aren't unique to Paypal.


 

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