Author Topic: Pond 5 Sales Dropped Off (Read 23101 times)

georgep7 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 04, 2019, 00:03 »

It is one thing to shoot futureproof clips and another to price $79 or $149 minimum for everything because it was just shot in 4K.

The real question in Pond5 is if pricing must be equal for lower HD versions or cut half as suggested as long as HD dowlnoad version is double the size of 4K doenload option files.

everest · « **Reply #26 on:** August 04, 2019, 02:50 »

Read the post above you. The footage game is between P5 and Shutter everything else is miles off. So to be exclusive or have exclusive files there it is a clever decision. Now competition in video is becoming as fierce as in the photo still images world.

Lots of people are uploading videos with decent quality now. Just recently we have gotten capable cameras, gimbals, drones,..... without breaking the bank, people have learned Davinci, Premiere,FCP etc and are all entering this new game in masses. So the result with clients not absorbing all this new material is what we all know. On top of that more and more agencies are entering with very aggressive prices the subscription field. It is not P5 that is/will suffer, it is SS it is Getty it is Adobe,Stocksy,....most veterans footage submitters will feel the hit.

Exclusivity is a way to differentiate themselves and try to stop the race to the bottom. P5 Getty Stocksy are developing the right strategy in this regard. And P5 has the fairest deal for contributors of the mentioned ones. Nothing dishonest about that.

Maybe you really should think twice before flaming someone who does not deserve it.

Quote from: cobalt on August 03, 2019, 17:45

Whow!

How do the people that went exclusive feel now?

Some people pulled their ports from other agencies and brought everything to pond5.

But unless they priced everything at the lowest possible price for 4k all their content is excluded from the searches?!

I thought the whole idea of going exclusive was to help stabilize prices??

This is a very dishonest move. They should have warned all artists that their income will drop drastically during that test.

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #27 on:** August 04, 2019, 03:38 »

Quote from: everest on August 04, 2019, 02:50

Lots of people are uploading videos with decent quality now. Just recently we have gotten capable cameras, gimbals, drones,....

Exactly, but what is more interesting to me is that some of the so called "industry pros who have been in this game a long time and deserve to get sales more than anyone else" are uploading tons and tons of mediocre (to bad) stuff at premium prices.

Do yourself a favor and look through some of the newest couple of hundred (or thousand) clips from the "doom-and-gloomers" and you find 10 similar angles of run-of-the-mill drone clips in dull lighting conditions, blown out skies, blown out highlights and terrible dynamic range, tons of snapshot quality stuff, etc. etc.

While they have a number of bestselling clips that are really good (but of course now with tons of competition), either they got lazy and comfortable now, or they got lucky before. That, combined with customers now demanding higher quality and the new talent being able to provide it.

I sometimes find the lack of self-awareness fascinating.

Step up your game.

thirdbornentertainment · « **Reply #28 on:** August 04, 2019, 04:01 »

Quote from: Annapatkay on August 02, 2019, 21:19

I got two video sales for $6/ each on pond5! How can it happen when all my HD videos $78 in all size ? Pond5 was my fav agency... Last month 0 sales. No way. Im disappointed.

Same here. 3 separate clips priced at $79 got me a $14.50 royalty. My sales are up but these "LLP" licenses seem to be them just making up any price to get a sale. The industry standard $23 commission has dropped to $14 across the board. Dissolve is doing it along with P5 and of course, SS has their $1.50 clip sales. Maybe the volume of stock clips being bought will eventually make up for the low prices but let's ask some photographers how that worked out for them.

Visualab · « **Reply #29 on:** August 04, 2019, 06:29 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on August 03, 2019, 16:14

Quote from: Visualab on August 03, 2019, 14:52
contributors at pond5 are complaining a sudden huge drop from april...
if it was all about competition and new contributors like you said the drop would be slow and steady....

Yes, and contributors who aren't experiencing that drop continue on working as usual. They don't go on the forums saying "listen up, sales are normal!".

For me, June is the best month of 2019 so far, followed by April. If 30 contributors experience a drop it does not necessarily mean the end is near. It COULD mean that, sure, but it also could not.

Do you think Pond5 decide to make changes that lower overall revenue on purpose? Of course not. But they get more valuable data in a week than any contributor in their entire career. They can follow customer behavior closely, they see EXACTLY what they click on, when they leave the site, and when they stay, look for more, and purchase.

Any radical changes likely come as a REACTION to downward trends, not the other way around. If customers on average spend 30% more, but 50 contributors make less, that is still called a reasonable business decision.

if those 30 contributors were happy with sales until march then all of the sudden sales went down for all of them likely a big change has happened...of course it doesn't mean everybody has been affected but seeing pond5 trying desperately to catch new buyers at the cost of lying to contributors and go back on their words about exclusive,it means to me that they are in trouble and are not doing well like you said...
i don't think they wanted to lower overall revenue on purpose,they are not that stupid,but in business sometimes you make mistakes even with all the data they have...
Should i mention the websize format that from their test and data would bring in more sales and new buyers?? it lasted 3 months then they've doubled back on their rail..
Should i mention the exclusive program that from their data all buyers were looking for???...wait few months and they'll double back on this too because you can't claim to have exclusive clips when you offer those clips through your partners too...it was only a smoke screen to cover the royalties cut...

Daryl Ray · « **Reply #30 on:** August 04, 2019, 07:45 »

Ah, got it. The ones going on about those taking issue with Pond5 excluding clips above $50 in search results are already bottom feeding sellers. That's why you're not upset, because you're already selling way below industry standards and this test did not affect you.

I find the sense of self-important ego d**k waving in in these rooms nauseating.

jonbull · « **Reply #31 on:** August 04, 2019, 07:51 »

soon industry standard will be 6 dollar per file and those celebrating themselves will soon be in aa sea of s...t....because clearly demand want never increase to make for the lost of ropyfalty..it's only a matter of months not years. soon the royalty on pond5 will decrease till 35 30 per cent...it's only a matter of time. video will follow the same path of photo, is a matter of months. already 12 millions file soon 20 then 50 and demand staggering will make the pricer file collapse. it's only a matter of time.

cobalt · « **Reply #32 on:** August 04, 2019, 10:13 »

When the industry had 12 million stock photos I was earning up to 450 dollars a day on a port of 3000 images...

12 million video files is nothing. When the agencies started to have several hundred million photo files...that is when the actual oversupply started.

I donˋt get the drastic drop in video prices, there is barely enough content for the serious buyer.

Ok, sunsets, clouds and grass in the wind is oversupplied, but well done professional clips?

I mean the planet has more food recipes than the agencies have files.

What pond5 is doing just doesn‘t make sense.

There is A LOT they can do to improve the buyer interface to make it much easier to search and collect files.

But to just exclude content from a search by selecting a price point?

Why would they do that?

And how do the exclusive artists benefit?

Do they have to drop all their prices to 50 dollars to remain visible?

Noone is reporting an increase in sales.

jonbull · « **Reply #33 on:** August 04, 2019, 12:12 »

Quote from: cobalt on August 04, 2019, 10:13

When the industry had 12 million stock photos I was earning up to 450 dollars a day on a port of 3000 images...

12 million video files is nothing. When the agencies started to have several hundred million photo files...that is when the actual oversupply started.

I donˋt get the drastic drop in video prices, there is barely enough content for the serious buyer.

Ok, sunsets, clouds and grass in the wind is oversupplied, but well done professional clips?

I mean the planet has more food recipes than the agencies have files.

What pond5 is doing just doesn‘t make sense.

There is A LOT they can do to improve the buyer interface to make it much easier to search and collect files.

But to just exclude content from a search by selecting a price point?

Why would they do that?

And how do the exclusive artists benefit?

Do they have to drop all their prices to 50 dollars to remain visible?

Noone is reporting an increase in sales.

demand for video is much much much much lower than photo i'd say lower much more than 20 times....12 million are a lot compared to the demand.

wds · « **Reply #34 on:** August 04, 2019, 12:38 »

demand for video is much much much much lower than photo i'd say lower much more than 20 times....12 million are a lot compared to the demand.
[/quote]

It's an interesting analysis:

- video demand much lower than stills: "20:1"
- video payout/dl much higher than stills: 50:1? (requires an analysis)
- effort to produce video vs. effort to produce stills: higher, but how much higher...still need compelling subject matter...that is the toughest part, hard to quantify

cobalt · « **Reply #35 on:** August 04, 2019, 12:43 »

I understand that the buyer base is smaller, but it doesn‘t change the buyers need for diversity in content.

And if you look at the sites with a buyers hat, nearly everything is missing.

Or is the endless sunset and wildlife shot all that they want?

everest · « **Reply #36 on:** August 04, 2019, 14:11 »

Quote from: cobalt on August 04, 2019, 10:13

What pond5 is doing just doesn‘t make sense.

There is A LOT they can do to improve the buyer interface to make it much easier to search and collect files.

But to just exclude content from a search by selecting a price point?

Why would they do that?

And how do the exclusive artists benefit?

Do they have to drop all their prices to 50 dollars to remain visible?

Noone is reporting an increase in sales.

Someone already said here it has having a best month. In my case my sales are also increasing but I am new to the game in footage. I was also doing 500-600$ /day in 2012 but that was because Istock management pushed by Getty and vulture equity Hellman & Friedman went totally crazy pushing up prices well beyond what was tolerable with Vettas and Agencies to the point they lost thousands of customers in moths. We got all a quick money grab and H&F could inflate the numbers to make an apotheosis sale.

There was enough content in 2012 we just have now more repeats of everything diluting libraries.

There is enough footage content in libraries like P5 and Shutterstock beyond sunsets and city timelapses. As has been said it is pointless to compare to still images. Some said the proportion is 20 images sales for every video. I would elevate that at least to 1 to 100.

Pond5 is experimenting with prices all the time so does Getty/Istock so does Shutterstock. They have to to be skin close to the market. They have all the data of searches preferences etc that we don't have by a long shot. We can disagree or vilify them as much as we want. They have to look for the bigger picture that works for them not for any of us. Even if they piss off some contributors with their actions they still will take those actions that benefit their bottom lines.

It is the same game it has always been. You play by their rules and adapt to make a win win scenario with the given situation. Sometimes you cannot make it a win scenario for you and you drop out or do not accept deals. I have with a few agencies already while 95% of the ones in the list of the right I have never given them 1 asset as it was just a waste of time. In footage there are only a few ones we all know that work. I rather have the likes like P5 to succeed lowering prices and not losing customers like others that give unlimited content for a few dollars subscription or sell footage for cents.

cobalt · « **Reply #37 on:** August 04, 2019, 14:33 »

So basically you are saying 12 million video files is similar to 400 million stock photos?

And now the only solution is to go ultra low in price and it is best
if pond5 does that first?

Then why not encourage the exclusive artists to offer content for 50 dollars? Or even less?

Basically it sounds like stock video is already over and producers should try to figure out what other medium is coming up next for higher production value?

Or only do 8k (16k) video?

pond5 has 400 000 files in their membership program, so they are playing that game too.

jonbull · « **Reply #38 on:** August 04, 2019, 15:12 »

Quote from: cobalt on August 04, 2019, 14:33

So basically you are saying 12 million video files is similar to 400 million stock photos?

And now the only solution is to go ultra low in price and it is best
if pond5 does that first?

Then why not encourage the exclusive artists to offer content for 50 dollars? Or even less?

Basically it sounds like stock video is already over and producers should try to figure out what other medium is coming up next for higher production value?

Or only do 8k (16k) video?

pond5 has 400 000 files in their membership program, so they are playing that game too.

400 million where?
ss has 280...in addiction how many video are sold? probably one video every 1000 sale of photos.....so yes 12 millions video considering the demand are a lot of off...so that's why video prices are going down like a rocket...probably in the next year they will be much much lower even for credit or on demand.

everest · « **Reply #39 on:** August 04, 2019, 15:14 »

All of this is speculation and every agency will have different numbers . In my case image sales are every month at least 200x more.

The strategy of every agency is different. Storyblocks and Envato have a smaller customer base and also the content is not as broad as p5 and Shutter so they are betting strong on subscription to take market share. Istock/Getty has high quality footage but not as much variety as P5 or Shutter and they are also applying aggressive pricing to retain customers. So what do you think is the alternative of Shutter and P5......they don't have another choice if they want to retain their customers especially those that are price sensitive that I guess are the most.

Exclusivity is the only way to shield price erosion. P5 as far as I know is not doing it first. Getty/Istock is selling clips por cents for ages (you cannot opt out of those- one of the reasons I am not there with my footage). Envato Elements and now Storyblocks is also giving away unlimited clips for a few dollars. So I don't see the argument that now for showing files that are cheaper than 50$ they are the bad guys and the ones that are the first responsible for the race to the bottom.

You are right that they have also a premium subs content and playing that game. Don't know what share their participant get (for sure better than Getty/Istock or the nobody knows "cash pool" of Storyblocks that is totally opaque).

Video is not over yet but it is much tougher that it was only 2 years ago. And unfortunately it will become as tough as images /vectors /music .

The solution is not 8k video it is to have the content that is right and desirable for customers. 90% of the purchased content is still FHD.

But 5 years ago it was perfectly possible to have a full time income doing stock footage or images. This is becoming harder and harder. And i would definitely not recommend it to anyone to try a shot at it be it footage/images/audio.
Those times are over.

Quote from: cobalt on August 04, 2019, 14:33

So basically you are saying 12 million video files is similar to 400 million stock photos?

And now the only solution is to go ultra low in price and it is best
if pond5 does that first?

Then why not encourage the exclusive artists to offer content for 50 dollars? Or even less?

Basically it sounds like stock video is already over and producers should try to figure out what other medium is coming up next for higher production value?

Or only do 8k (16k) video?

pond5 has 400 000 files in their membership program, so they are playing that game too.

cobalt · « **Reply #40 on:** August 04, 2019, 17:25 »

The problem with the 50 dollar cap is that it was NOT communicated to the artists, especially the people that just went exclusive and pulled their content from other places for pond5.

Suddenly their content became invisible in searches on the only agency they had files left.

Pond5 was probably one of the most trusted and contributor friendly agencies the industry had.

I have had fantastic experiences with pond5, their artist support staff is amazing.

But pulling stunts like these just makes no sense.

It comes across as extremly desperate and abrupt.

If pond5 sees no future above the 50 dollar file, then why should people go exclusive with them?

The reason to promote and support pond5 is that it is a plattform where artists can set their own prices.

If they wanted a fixed price and especially a low value price, they could have kept their content elsewhere.

Going exclusive then having your content removed from the searches...not funny...

I see loads of stuff missing in the video stock market, but if the price is pushed down so drastically and agencies believe the „proper“ price point is a few dollars, then there is no point in producing it, because the high volume sales are not there.

But pond5 should communicate clearly what they want to do, if they prefer the 50 dollar price point, then they should let people now so they can adjust their production.

No point investing in what you do, if pond5 believes the market for higher priced content is now dead.

georgep7 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 05, 2019, 03:39 »

If I may comment on pricing.
Yes an enterprise might pay 10000 or 20000 for a shooting and stock saves the day for peanuts.
ok.

but....

There is another thread in the forum, if stock got people other clients.
Here is a simple estimation of a video shooting with editing,
more than just slight cropping, grading etc.
Guess we have all done this at least once.

Weddings. Let's name a price. 1000 Euros
too little? let's ask 2000 Euros
Let's count the MINIMUM discarded clips of a single main shooter.
No second operator, no third camera, no drone shots.

grooms preparation friends & house 10-20 clips
bride's preparation friends and house 20-30 clips
kids, parents, relatives, decoration 10-20 clips
place of wedding or church, decoration and guests 20-30 clips
ceremony itself 20-30 clips
after wedding party 10-20 clips
EDIT: No nextday or studio shots

People involved in weddings know very well that this clip count is actually faulty and really poor.
Anyway we got 90 to 150 clips.
For a 2000Euros price, this translates to 22.23 down to 13.34 Euros per clip.
Including post processing, licensing music and distribition on physical or digital media.
For a unique event shot for one client once in a lifetime and with the risk to lose critical frames.

Still a newbie but, yup! I love stock. It actually pay less in total but still better that weddings...

gnirtS · « **Reply #42 on:** August 05, 2019, 04:26 »

This may explain my sudden drop.
Generally on average $250 - $300 a month from the 15th to 15th billing period. Fairly consistently for a fair amount of time. Not much but it all helps.

Suddenly this paying period instead of that average ive made a grand total of 1 sale for a massive $2.80. Combined with that my views have dropped significantly literally overnight.

Maybe its a coincidence but quite possibly the cap is hitting me. I had no idea there was a trial cap until i saw this thread (and had no idea P5 had a forum).

Visualab · « **Reply #43 on:** August 05, 2019, 04:34 »

Quote from: georgep7 on August 05, 2019, 03:39

If I may comment on pricing.
Yes an enterprise might pay 10000 or 20000 for a shooting and stock saves the day for peanuts.
ok.

but....

There is another thread in the forum, if stock got people other clients.
Here is a simple estimation of a video shooting with editing,
more than just slight cropping, grading etc.
Guess we have all done this at least once.

Weddings. Let's name a price. 1000 Euros
too little? let's ask 2000 Euros
Let's count the MINIMUM discarded clips of a single main shooter.
No second operator, no third camera, no drone shots.

grooms preparation friends & house 10-20 clips
bride's preparation friends and house 20-30 clips
kids, parents, relatives, decoration 10-20 clips
place of wedding or church, decoration and guests 20-30 clips
ceremony itself 20-30 clips
after wedding party 10-20 clips
EDIT: No nextday or studio shots

People involved in weddings know very well that this clip count is actually faulty and really poor.
Anyway we got 90 to 150 clips.
For a 2000Euros price, this translates to 22.23 down to 13.34 Euros per clip.
Including post processing, licensing music and distribition on physical or digital media.
For a unique event shot for one client once in a lifetime and with the risk to lose critical frames.

Still a newbie but, yup! I love stock. It actually pay less in total but still better that weddings...

So what's the point?? because shooting wedding is badly paid it doesn't mean with have to bring stock at the same level....
your point has no sense to me...

georgep7 · « **Reply #44 on:** August 05, 2019, 05:42 »

@VisualLab, I respect your opinion. I just want to clarify that I didn't said in any way that wedding or event videography in general is bad paying.

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Author Topic: Pond 5 Sales Dropped Off (Read 23101 times)

georgep7

everest

increasingdifficulty

thirdbornentertainment

Visualab

Daryl Ray

jonbull

cobalt

jonbull

wds

cobalt

everest

cobalt

jonbull

everest

cobalt

georgep7

gnirtS

Visualab

georgep7

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