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Author Topic: Minimum prices at Pond5  (Read 18249 times)

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SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2016, 04:44 »
+2
So when Author Driven Pricing is implemented on Video, and I increase my prices from $8 to $50... are you saying that instead of making $2000 a month, I'll be making $12,500 instead? Should I go for $250 per clip and sit back as $62,500 comes rolling into my account every month?

In fact, if the general consensus is that clients will pay whatever, everyone should put their prices up, quality doesn't really matter that much when it comes to pricing, and high prices won't reduce in less sales... maybe I should go for $2500 a clip. $7.5m a year would be pretty sweet. I'll get on it!


« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2016, 05:45 »
0
You just got a bit extreme with your pricing argument.  That's OK but again you missed the point of SENSIBLE pricing.

« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2016, 08:15 »
+3
So when Author Driven Pricing is implemented on Video, and I increase my prices from $8 to $50... are you saying that instead of making $2000 a month, I'll be making $12,500 instead? Should I go for $250 per clip and sit back as $62,500 comes rolling into my account every month?

In fact, if the general consensus is that clients will pay whatever, everyone should put their prices up, quality doesn't really matter that much when it comes to pricing, and high prices won't reduce in less sales... maybe I should go for $2500 a clip. $7.5m a year would be pretty sweet. I'll get on it!

If you increase your prices form $8 to $50 you won't make $12500, but it's very possible to make $2050 or more with less sales! Isn't it good enough reason to do it?

« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2016, 08:42 »
+1
Will the income be reliable income every month? Or will it be 600 in one month, 2500 the next etc...?

For us this is not a hobby, finding the right price level for reliable income is very difficult and every portfolio and artists has their own solution what works for them.

IF you are making a living from stock.

If you dont and stock is just the add on to your day job, you can price whatever you like and just wait and be happy.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2016, 10:44 »
+1
So when Author Driven Pricing is implemented on Video, and I increase my prices from $8 to $50... are you saying that instead of making $2000 a month, I'll be making $12,500 instead? Should I go for $250 per clip and sit back as $62,500 comes rolling into my account every month?

In fact, if the general consensus is that clients will pay whatever, everyone should put their prices up, quality doesn't really matter that much when it comes to pricing, and high prices won't reduce in less sales... maybe I should go for $2500 a clip. $7.5m a year would be pretty sweet. I'll get on it!

If you increase your prices form $8 to $50 you won't make $12500, but it's very possible to make $2050 or more with less sales! Isn't it good enough reason to do it?

Absolutely! It's a good enough reason, but there's nothing to say that's what will happen. My earnings could go up, they could stay the same... or they might go down. I don't know, and you don't know. Not for certain anyway.

It's just the continuous 'put your prices up' advice doesn't seem to take any of this into account.

By their reasoning, it comes across as $100 a clip is always better than $50 a clip, even if your overall income takes a hit. It just seems like people would rather cut of their nose to spite their face.

I mean if you're sat in the bank managers office trying to get a mortgage,  and he asks you how much you make a year... "I earn $199 per clip" just isn't going to cut it. His natural reaction would be... "Erm, yeah... that's lovely. But how much actual money do you make in a year?"

They then reply with "I get 50% of all my sales and I avoid the garbage companies" which is great, but will eventually result in the guy calling security.

Percentage's are nice. Gross sales prices are nice. But at the end of the day, nobody gives a flying puck if you're getting 100% royalties on $1000 clips if you're only selling half a dozen a year. Yes, everyone keeps saying that you'll earn more if you increase the price of your clips, but will they? Is that certain? My clips are $49 at Pond5 and $99 for 4K. Is anybody willing to guarantee my earnings if I double my prices, or put them up by 50%? We split the profit increase? I think I made $375 in September, so you'd get half of whatever I make over that if I earn more, but you have to top me up to $375 if I earn less?

« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2016, 11:31 »
+2
If you never try, you'll never know!

« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2016, 11:40 »
+3
Yes you WILL make more money.  How do I know?

8 years testing the non exclusive market with price and quality.  I'm still doing it now.  In the last year I've increased my prices by about 10% across all my 60,000 video clips.  They now range from $50 to $200.

There are clips in HD from 8 years ago that still sell well.  There are 4K clips that sell well too.

I have animated footage (including space and Earth) that continue to sell well for high prices - usually $79 to $100.  I also have easy peazy shots of landscape and cities etc. that sell equally well for $50-$69

I try to price my footage evenly across all agencies because I know customers are wise to finding the same material.

Yes $10 is a silly price. $25 is acceptable.

« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2016, 11:45 »
+1
Let me also try and influence you by saying that some of my individual clips make at least $10K per year.  I wish that were true for all of them :)  I won't give out my name so you're going to have to trust me here :) Another reason that I'll stay anonymous is because I've also been part of the early Getty business (way back) so my experience is good.... very good!

« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2016, 11:59 »
+7
Let me also try and influence you by saying that some of my individual clips make at least $10K per year.  I wish that were true for all of them :)  I won't give out my name so you're going to have to trust me here :) Another reason that I'll stay anonymous is because I've also been part of the early Getty business (way back) so my experience is good.... very good!

I appreciate you chiming in, UKstock.  Great to hear perspectives from successful artists. As far as pricing clips goes, my biggest support of not pricing low is as I've said in previous posts on MSG about this subject: Look what happened to photos.  Look at the prices customers paid in days past. And today 38 cent subs and lower.  Look at agencies such as Envanto who is driving pricing down on videos. Supporting lowball sites as video demand goes up will condition customers to that pricing.  The rest of the good priced sites will slowly erode into nothingness or join the low pricing bandwagon.  I see video going down the same toilet Coriolis as images if we support $10 clips, even decent $25 clips. Probably a good blend of cross selling prices but clips would have to be curated well to ensure a robust cross selling mix.  Specialty clips like Spacestockfootage should never sell for anything less than $79 until the market adjusts for 4k and so on.  They are too good to be in the bargain bin.  If there's demand customers will pay.  But Envanto (among others like DP) is trying to win on price alone and that is the catalyst for impending price wars should they make a dent in the consumer base that other better priced agencies currently enjoy.  It's a hard argument to win, though, when the mantra for many is why shouldn't one clean up now on high volume, low price? Money is money and I need to feed the family. 

For me, I haven't uploaded any video to Envanto or DP or DT and simply will not support the low pay agencies. But many do for reasons besides what's right for the industry. That's, unfortunately, a cold, hard fact.   

« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2016, 08:41 »
+1
It is remarkable this: "raise your price and not only income but actual number of sales increases"

I've heard one guy raised his prices by over 120% and actually makes more sales - never mind more income.

I'm happy with my income and so don't want to risk rocking the boat - also I'm a cautious soul - so I only raised my prices by 10% and, lo and behold, I make the same number of sales (they haven't increased or decreased)

So I just gave myself a 10% rise. If things remain steady over the next month I'm going to give myself another 10%.

« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2016, 12:16 »
0
Good idea Pablito. Let us know how you get on.  There are plenty of people who would love to see this working for you.  BTW what price did you begin with?  Are we talking $10 or vastly more?

« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2016, 13:51 »
+1
"If you could give me some kind of step by step guide on how selling lots of items at a low price for a decent overall revenue, will result in me no longer selling lots of items at a low price for a decent overall revenue... then that would be much appreciated."

"but there's nothing to say that's what will happen. My earnings could go up, they could stay the same... or they might go down. I don't know, and you don't know. Not for certain anyway....everyone keeps saying that you'll earn more if you increase the price of your clips, but will they? Is that certain?"

"Will the income be reliable income every month?"

Of course there is no perfect formula, or step by step guide, or we'd all be doing it. However, there's personal integrity. There's business ethics. There's doing the right thing for the sake of the very industry you're depending on, at the expense of some risk to yourself in the short term.

When I started in this business, I knew nothing. I was only selling SFX at iStock and was so impressed at making money doing something I considered a hobby for 20 years that I accepted anything they offered. I was even considering exclusivity. If MSG forums was around, I hadn't found it yet. When iStock took their arrogant step of reducing my share of the sales to 16%, I drew the same naive conclusions you guys are. "If I sell enough, and the dollars seem like enough each month, who cares about the details?" Fortunately, I started reading the iStock forums and some posts by sellers much more experienced and knowledgeable than myself inspired me to think a little deeper into it. I made the hard choice to seek out more fair, reputable companies, and started deleting my content from iStock. I lost money, at first, and was conflicted for a bit. But I know I was doing the right thing. And now there is no doubt that my risk payed off financially.

Unfortunately, I'm still naive enough to think we as contributors could act as a united front pushing back against such crap as taking 85% of sales of our product. But there's always too many frightened sellers. Unsure about how to proceed, but a little too confident in their narrow views. So here we are today, iStock still pays its contributors as little as 15%, Envato is selling HD vids for $8. Both with constant defenders in these forums.

We should never accept less than 50% of our sales. We should ensure our product is being priced fairly. How can these minimal standards be too much to ask? Why would any reasonable content creator argue with this?

What's pricing fairly? That's not up to me to decide for you. But take into consideration the consensus of your peers. Take into account what Shutterstock sells for, Videoblocks, the average sales prices on Pond5, Fotolia/Adobe, even iStock/Getty. How can you not conclude that less than $25 for any HD clip is absolutely ridiculous?

alno

« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2016, 05:44 »
+2
How can you not conclude that less than $25 for any HD clip is absolutely ridiculous?

I wonder why some Gucci executive not imposing everyone around that selling jeans for less than $100 is absolutely ridiculous.

« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2016, 10:48 »
0
Good idea Pablito. Let us know how you get on.  There are plenty of people who would love to see this working for you.  BTW what price did you begin with?  Are we talking $10 or vastly more?

Hi UKStock,

$10 "You cannot be serious!" (to be said with a J.McEnroe accent)

Like you I'm full-time at this. I've been a full-time RM stills guy at Getty (and at Ace & Telegraph Colour Library before Getty had heard of Stock Photography & Corbis R.I.P.(from the day they started - as Continium).
Now it's full-time video.
I started @ $120 for HD then because of pricing pressure I reduced to $60 and am now creeping back up. Basically HD sells 'sans problem' up to $79. I've put 4K (actually UHD) at $150 and get enough sales to know that can be a minimum.

What's your pricing strategy?

« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2016, 11:53 »
0
Pablito, Yes same strategy and it works.  I've increased from $69 to $79 HD and yes $149 for 4K

« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2016, 13:09 »
0
Yeah, I need to up my HD price a little quicker. Pointless selling for less than necessary.

« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2016, 13:54 »
0
My prices are double the average pricing and I'm in the top sellers (revenue) every week/month. It's very hard to pinpoint exactly which number to go for but going way above average doesn't seem like something you need to be afraid of.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2016, 23:26 »
+1
Well here's my best selling clip...

https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/51754730/global-network-orange.html

And if you search for global network or networked earth you come up with stuff like this (there's mine on the second row)...

https://www.pond5.com/stock-video-footage/1/global-network.html#1

And although some of them are not that impressive, most of them are of a pretty similar standard. Some are $25, but they're mainly the pretty rubbish ones. Some of them are $60, but most of them are $49 or $50.

Yes, there are differences between mine and the others. I've gone for a more realistic kind of look whereas a lot of the others are more grid/glossy/no clouds kind of stuff. So if somebody is specifically looking for something in that style, then they might pay $79 if I was to increase the other price. Otherwise, they're going to see a bunch of clips with a similar concept, but half a dozen or so of them are $50, and one of them is $79. For some that might not be a big deal, but I think it might influence the decision of a good portion of people. I mean, they're on Pond5 at the end of the day, not Artbeats or something.

It could be said that you should price what you think your work is worth and screw everyone else... but you've got to take your competition into account. Would Pepsi and Coke be as close if Coke was twice the price?   


SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2016, 00:40 »
+2
How can you not conclude that less than $25 for any HD clip is absolutely ridiculous?

I just feel that people make too much of a link between selling stock and creating custom shots for clients. Would I create a custom piece for a client and sell it to them for $8 or $25? Absolutely not! Most of my clips take between half a day and a day, sometimes two days if it's pretty fancy. The last ten second space clip I made for a client I charged $500. I think that was fair for the amount of work involved. I had integrity, valued my work and charged a decent rate for some decent work.

But would I set the price of such a clip to $500 on Pond5? No way. The whole concept of stock is that you get paid out for it several times. If you're not getting paid out for it several times, then you're not making stuff that's of a good enough quality and/or there's just not enough demand for it.

The Force Awakens cost $300m. Was JJ not valuing his work, not thinking of the industry or being unethical by letting the cinemas charge $10 a go? I appreciate we're not working in the motion picture industry, but there are similarities. I just don't think it's right to create ten shots in a day, charge $100 each for them and then you've made $500 for that day if they all just sell once. It would be easier to just hire a videographer for the day for $750 and get exactly what you need, rather than something that's very close.

(I appreciate that a day's shoot can and probably will cost a lot more than $750 if you're factoring in travel, props, talent, rental fees, location fees, crew, audio etc... but if it's a local shoot with no additional stuff required and you can get 10 shots wrapped up in half a day, then $750 is plenty.)

I mean, what does it cost to make one can of Coke from scratch? Let's say $5,000,000. What does it cost to make two cans of coke? Probably $5,000,002 give or take. So if they're making two cans of Coke, they can afford to sell them at just over $2,500,000 each. Add in a bit of profit and everyone's happy. Keep going down that route and you've got a $0.50 can of Coke which still makes them a whole bunch of profit. What if you don't get enough sales to offset the initial cost of your clip... well that serves you right for not making better stuff.

If I make an average of $10 per clip, per month, for a clip that took me one day... then I'm happy enough with that. That means I'll get $600 over five years, or $80 per hour for every hour I put in. So if I get less than $5 a month then I consider the clip a bit of a failure, $10 will do, $20 is good... and thankfully I have a few that get me $50 to $75 or a bit more. Plus my After Effects stuff which can get me over $300 a month per item, but that's a bit different.   

That's the way I see it. It is possible that pricing higher will bring me more profit even if there are slightly reduced sales. However, pricing lower will make my work more attainable for those that can't afford such stuff. I price at $50 or higher on every other site, but I'm happy to have my stuff on Videohive at $8 as it opens up that area of the market for me. There's a mass of people out there creating media that just don't have the money to pay $50+ per clip. Places like VideoHive gives them the ability to create that media, but without the hefty costs.

I think, although I could be wrong, that there's a slightly different clientele on VideoHive than there is on SS and iS and all that jazz. I don't think that ditching all my stuff on VH would mean that people would buy it on other sites instead, I think they just wouldn't buy it.

And last but not least, a lot of people keep mentioning price wars and erosion of the market and a race to the bottom... but VH have been around for ten years and I've not seen any of this yet. Has anyone seen a whole bunch of sites putting their prices down to compete with VH? Sure, there's the subscription offerings, but that's a bit different. It's not like Shutterstock changing from $79 to $69 is going to have all the VH customers jumping ship and heading to SS.

Anyway, that's the way I see it!   

« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2016, 05:46 »
0
I know it's only a short time, but since I upped my prices by 10%, my sales haven't missed a beat. Nice to see the odd 4K at the new price too.
This is on the backdrop of most being in the membership program - so, at least for me, that hasn't affected individual sales at all. P5 is back on top by a very good margin now - even though SS are breaking records as well.......I love video!

« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2016, 05:48 »
0
My prices are double the average pricing and I'm in the top sellers (revenue) every week/month. It's very hard to pinpoint exactly which number to go for but going way above average doesn't seem like something you need to be afraid of.

How do you know you are in the top sellers every week?

« Reply #71 on: October 16, 2016, 07:01 »
0
How do you know you are in the top sellers every week?

Bottom of page: Artist Resources.

« Reply #72 on: October 16, 2016, 07:18 »
+1
I see what you mean.
You mean you have some videos which are in top grossing sellers of the week. That's great.

I thought you meant that YOU were in the top grossing sellers each week! Different thing altogether.

Sorry for my misunderstanding.



« Reply #73 on: October 16, 2016, 08:21 »
0
I see what you mean.
You mean you have some videos which are in top grossing sellers of the week. That's great.

I thought you meant that YOU were in the top grossing sellers each week! Different thing altogether.

Sorry for my misunderstanding.

Yes, no way of knowing the total top sellers as far as I know. But one can make an educated guess that Axiomimages is #1 overall.

« Reply #74 on: October 16, 2016, 08:49 »
+1
Either way, it takes some doing to appear in that list.....respect!

I got in it once - but that was before the invention of the drone  ;)


 

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