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Messages - jonbull
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1176
« on: February 09, 2016, 06:08 »
Another interesting theme it's the spamming and flowing of millions photos in the last year from ukraine and russia. i was in ukraine many times and
-it's cheap production...every girl is beautiful with a good attitude towards camera, you can pay her 20 euro and she's happy with the photos....theme are simple don't cost nothing...you can have assistant and other workers for 200 dollar month...studio run so cheap.
- cost of life is ridiculous,. with 800 dollar you can live a life you can dream in new york with 3000 dollar....
the 2 point make for thousand and thousand of people becoming photographer in a second, pouring zillion of similar concepts saturating everything.
So, what's the problem here? Are you complaining because someone else can do a better job for less money with a lower cost of living? How the heck is that THEIR problem?
The nature of this industry is that cameras are everywhere. People willing to do the work are everywhere. Some places will have competitive advantages over wher you happen to be. Welcome to globalization. Don't like it? Get out of the industry and start up your own niche.
i like it that's why i live mostly in kiev:) maybe you don't understand the point...but the truth is that ukraine photographer are spamming the agency with thousand and thousand of photos....like thai china and some other countries...mostly mediocre or repetitive job. and for me the only wayy to live with micro stock is go where life is cheap...who is earning 5 6k per month with microstck? apart 10 20 big old producer with 15k images at least...nobody..99% earn from 0 to some hundred dollar...microstock is not any more a job, is a hobby. and this is reflected in the quality of the photos uploaded in the agency. ss added 800000 garbage photos every week because: - come from new photographer -help raise th perception in stockholders the industry is working - they try to sell new images of new photog cause they have little portfolio and their payout will , if it will be, very low.
1177
« on: February 04, 2016, 07:53 »
used to low download but everything 1,5 2,3 3,5 dollar, sometimes even more...now only few sales at 0,35 cent....is dying? yes. in my opinion all the micro industry is dying. probably stock shutter and fotolia will stay for the future with very low per capita earning for photographers. time to go other way, macro, rm, stocks...better a sale sometimes who bring real money, than all these 0,35 cent that bring nothing
1178
« on: February 02, 2016, 11:01 »
I won't be opting out of EL's for the simple reason that in the 3 years I've been at SS, I've had 31 EL's @$28 and in the 7 years I've been at FT (with 15% more images), I've had 5 EL's. Even pricing my EL's at 70 credits (instead of my max 100 credits) of which I get 25% doesn't get them sold at FT. I'll take 'em when I can get 'em at SS.
Just curious, at what point do you think will be too low of a payout for you not to opt out? It was easy for me to opt out of this deal as I thought $28 was a bit lower than what i should be getting compensated for someone else to reproduce/print my content for their own financial benefit. It should be at minimum 50% but then thats never gonna happen. I probably average 2 EL a month here and opting out will save me the grief of thinking about SS bigger take.
On another note, this move by shutterstock is making it more easier not to submit to this agency as i see the clear direction it is going forward with this move.
Ill take em when i can get em sounds a lot like thank you may i have another to me.
Either I quit microstock altogether or I take what's on offer. I have no power as an invidual to divert corporations from their corporate interests....and that's always been, more for them and less for me. If, at some point, the revenue stream from ms falls below a level that I consider not worth the effort, then I'll just stop providing them with content...in the full knowledge that there's thousands of other suckers prepared to do what I wasn't.
At present, the ms revenue stream is just one of a few others but I'm content with the present income when balanced with the effort invested. When the balance becomes inverted, I'll just have to find some other way to restore it to positive.
i agree....i repeat complaining about the lost of 7 dollar for a EL, considering the real state of the micro stock market is like the man who watch the finger and forgot the moon. the problem is that EL are completely dead. thy messed with standard royalty, in the run down to the penny to have more customer, killing completely EL. The only thing we can do is stocks way at this moment....i mean...1000 of stockers who are not spammers or third world photographer who upload 40 k at month, leave all agency and create a new one.-
1179
« on: January 31, 2016, 07:48 »
Another thought - sorry, it is very negative-
As the growing economies of countries like China and India continue, they will have a potentially MASSIVE growth in the middle income class. As these people income grows, they will be able to buy products sich as dslr's and join in on microstock too, further contributing to these bast image libraries. And for them, earning $50-75 / month is a nice etra income, whereas that is peanuts to those in first world countries.
what i tried to say from the beginning...if you want do this work full time you can do mostly where cost of living is low...and it can be also a bice choice...spend time in ukraine and asisa and i have much more fun and good living than where i live, but i understand is not possible for everybody. i'm sure 50 percent of files in micro stock now are coming from 5 6 country, ukraine thai russia china
1180
« on: January 30, 2016, 13:30 »
The spammer coming mostly from Thailand and India.
i already wrote in another thread...most come also from ikraine now....there are photog from ukraine with 40000 images, mostly similar, a lot do illustration. and it's pretty easy to understand how this happen... one man artist, pay other 10 for artist 200 300 dollar month, maybe more, to produce all this icon and images.
1181
« on: January 29, 2016, 13:27 »
Just Opt Out Jonbull you know it makes sense 
ahahah no way...i repeat i try to ,milk the cow thill i can...i have more than 10000 photos ready i will upload , i will not even complaint about rejection , is totally useless, i just send all stuff it 's in my hard disk without any interests...my best works photos and energy are aimed at RM, prints, show, assignment and editorial for magazine right now...it looks 4 years but is working...i probably would have earned more with micro in the last 4 years, but for me was mostly boring, and as i said it's a creative nightmare, think and photo like a micro stock only means you are cutting all your creativity to zero. so no i not opt put, anyway it would be useless i have not a el in the last 4 months.
1182
« on: January 29, 2016, 13:23 »
jonbul, i never signed up for 25 cent downloads, i signed up for 20 cent downloads and 20 dollar els, but that is not the point either, we just got a price cut from an agency that hadnt cut royalties before (except referrals), and you are defending it because we accept 25 cent downloads in the first place. noticing you are talking about 33 cent makes me believe you havent been in the game longer than a year.
sorry i take 0,38 cent per photo maybe i am a leve superior.....i never check...just end of month watch how much i did....as i said in my opinion accepting from beginning micro stock it's clear you accepted a cheap situation who in the long run will bring everything down , and in my opinion even no it's a good situation. personally i see the el trendy finished in my portfolio and i have 60-80 el years...in 2015 probably less than 20 i'm not defending anything, simply opt out is useless and in my opinion you only lose money, you, better 36 dollar than 0.
1183
« on: January 29, 2016, 12:26 »
I have opted out for the following reason:
If you think like a programmer and mathematician, which Jon does. (Remember he built the original SS site himself)
You will understand that with the new EL price tiers, shutterstock has the ability to tweak it's search to serve a larger percentage of content from lower tier contributors, to buyers. Think database queries based on port download numbers sorted by a changing contributor join date to make it less obvious to new contributors that the cards are stacked. The search can dynamically pull images out of the database based on many image parameters. Databases are powerful tools.
This new tiered royalty, gives shutterstock the ability maximizing profits further at our expense. This will help keep stock prices up and keep the wallstreet crowd happy, but sucks for us.
i don't understand. what i'm doing is simply not opting out. cause in this kind of market every penny counts. for me real photography is not this. but i understand that fo those who still think they will have a living with micro stock it can be symbolic
1184
« on: January 29, 2016, 11:40 »
jonbull you are talking nonsense, but following your logic, why do we have to accept a paycut of 26 subs per EL? i cant even phantom why you would defend the agency over this. your in the wrong playground for that.
why we started to accept 0,25 for photo is the point....if you don't want accept the lost of 7 dollar and you opt out, they will sell other photos not yours and your payroll will be less and less...if every photographer in micro accept to eliminate their account now , the agency will be forced to change everything, but it's impossibile this. i have any agenda believe me. it's only noisense to opt out because you lose 7 dollar, and probably they discounted the el because they are selling few and few., while you earn 0,33 per sale. if you don't understand this is your problem. i don't rely on micro stock anymore from 4 years, only uploading junk photos, junk for me not for reviewers, and earning some dollars who help buy stuff pay travel and taxes.
1185
« on: January 29, 2016, 10:06 »
You can now stop with this off-topic crap. Where is admin when you need one?
crap? or crack? nitpicking 18 vs 25 dollar when most of sales bring 0,33 cents? we should also be serious? come on. luck that still there is 18 dollar sometimes, who are 54 download at 0,33 cent, to be made.
1186
« on: January 29, 2016, 08:57 »
Anyway back to the original thread
I ALREADY OPTED OUT plus three other contributors who wish to remain anonymous 
how much EL you sold last year?
1187
« on: January 29, 2016, 08:55 »
This is the "Opt Out of Enhanced Licenses at SS" thread, you may find a "how the world works" thread elsewhere if you are not interested.
everything is referred to the thread...if you sell and earn 0,25 scent per foto complaining because el went from 25 to 18....considring that they went this way cause probably the sold low in the last year, i was used to have 4 5 at month and even more, in the last 8 month 2 El only, is nitpicking in my way.
even complaining is nitpicking...we created all this situation and we must accept everything. photography is worth less than any jobs in the world in these days. it's tremendous to accept but it's the truth
So your answer if to give in a die a little. Thanks for your discouragement, but I get enough of that from directly Shutterstock.
any discouragement...when you see an agency accepting 700 thousand images every week, and every other do the same, i think the last problem is the EL at 18...maybe they will sell more EL so instead of earning 0 af 25 they sell 2 at 18 and it's a profit of 36 instead of 0. the problem is where is going the industry. cobs sold to chinese, macro selling for 0,14 even less than micro, 1000000 of amateur selling photos earning 50 dollar year and diluting the profit for every real photographer....in my opinion the only way to change is really go stocks or minimum a 500 pix stock , at least you reran more than 50 dollar per sale...but the problem is always the same...nobpdy is leaving, cause everybody think :" if leave and the other not i will only lose more". that's it. my suggestion put the worst photo in micro and try sale rights managed the best. maybe this will improve the situation
1188
« on: January 29, 2016, 08:37 »
This is the "Opt Out of Enhanced Licenses at SS" thread, you may find a "how the world works" thread elsewhere if you are not interested.
everything is referred to the thread...if you sell and earn 0,25 scent per foto complaining because el went from 25 to 18....considring that they went this way cause probably the sold low in the last year, i was used to have 4 5 at month and even more, in the last 8 month 2 El only, is nitpicking in my way. even complaining is nitpicking...we created all this situation and we must accept everything. photography is worth less than any jobs in the world in these days. it's tremendous to accept but it's the truth
1189
« on: January 29, 2016, 08:33 »
Discounting costs us now that we are on a percentage so increased demand would need to be very high for us to profit. And we are at the mercy of currency fluctuations.
third world country photographer, who live where you can live with 4 500 dollar, are saturating all this agency. that's the real big problem....if you want to live with micro you can't do in western world...maybe moving to thailnd or ukraine could be a good business...earning 1200 dollar and living good....and 1200 dollar are still lot of money to be made nowadays for 99% f micro stock photographer. it's 3000 4000 download month...150 day...
You really think to live well in Ukraine with $1200 a month if you are a foreigner? lol
well if you live in ukraine you are not a foreigner anymore:) i know ukraine pretty well...sure you not live a luxury life but a good live yes....comparision you live like in western country with 4000 euro....i am in ukraine most of year and moving there for summer.....gryvan 28 euro....taxi 1 euro....pizza 3 euro...good restaurant 15 20 euro...rentin is the only thing that cost a bit,...400 600 dollar...but with 1200 dollar good luck renting anything or eating a pizza in western world...leaving aside the cost of shooting...a perfect studio with profoto light? 10 euro or less hour....model? you can stop girl in the street for few photos and some euro and voila you have a model, in ukraine i'd say 50% of people can work as stock model... also if you can't live as foreigner with 1200 how can people live there earning 200 dollar or 300 like many people do? 1200 dollar: 600 rent apartment with everything included 600 dollar : 18000 gryvna.....pizza in center with taxi from house back...270.....yes i think i can live as foreigner... and we are talking about kiev the most expensive...go kharkiv or lviv you can live even better.
1190
« on: January 29, 2016, 07:53 »
Discounting costs us now that we are on a percentage so increased demand would need to be very high for us to profit. And we are at the mercy of currency fluctuations.
third world country photographer, who live where you can live with 4 500 dollar, are saturating all this agency. that's the real big problem....if you want to live with micro you can't do in western world...maybe moving to thailnd or ukraine could be a good business...earning 1200 dollar and living good....and 1200 dollar are still lot of money to be made nowadays for 99% f micro stock photographer. it's 3000 4000 download month...150 day...
1191
« on: January 29, 2016, 07:50 »
complaining because the el passed form 28 to 18 when u sell most of the photos and earn 0,25?
i mean if you wanted to really make something you should ditch micro stock, and try to earn serious money with quality work....but it's very difficult this way.
personally i accept everything they give me for my collection, i upload only garbage photos to every agency, just to make things alive and pull my download, but don't expect nothing, 60 million images...how can you really expect anything from this situation?
1192
« on: January 28, 2016, 16:02 »
Agencies are empowered. Period. They can do anything they want to increase profit.
Until we organize or, for lack of a better word, unionize and setup an agency made by the contributors/for the contributors - AND agree to submit exclusively to that agency, we will all be at the mercy of stock agencies. Period.
i agree...stocksy is a good experiment but i don't have the portfolio for them. and i don't know if stocks sell good
1193
« on: January 28, 2016, 15:59 »
98% of new pictures just CRAPS.
Example:
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-361647683/stock-photo-rice-seedlings-in-the-rice-fields.html?src=Q9qZ0Ey8z6givNnS3-f5FQ-1-10
They are kidding me?
Shutterstock become slowly to landfill.
and you know? all a series of aerial photography like this has been rejected for the most ridiculous thing...these photos are pretty unusual, u find few similar aerial like this, they are made not with go pro like most of the aerial photography u see in micro stock, and clearly shoot at sunset or before you must have a trade off between noise and sharpness...but the reviewer not even realize this. as i said these are only the photo i not like from my aerial beach series, i send to micro stock because i didn't know what to do. other agency have taken it already so we'll see if they sell. but clearly it will be useless to send images to shutter stock.
1194
« on: January 28, 2016, 08:49 »
Here's another one... and one more.
I wonder how many such ports have been added recently and how the numbers would change if these were deleted (or not accepted, in the first place).
as i said the first come from where?= ukraine...again.
1195
« on: January 28, 2016, 08:48 »
Another interesting theme it's the spamming and flowing of millions photos in the last year from ukraine and russia. i was in ukraine many times and
-it's cheap production...every girl is beautiful with a good attitude towards camera, you can pay her 20 euro and she's happy with the photos....theme are simple don't cost nothing...you can have assistant and other workers for 200 dollar month...studio run so cheap.
- cost of life is ridiculous,. with 800 dollar you can live a life you can dream in new york with 3000 dollar....
the 2 point make for thousand and thousand of people becoming photographer in a second, pouring zillion of similar concepts saturating everything.
1196
« on: January 28, 2016, 08:40 »
the end will be easy
- nobody will make a good living...
-. stock will be more amateurish with lower quality and difference...wjo is gonna invest in serious shooting? or travel remote country? yes this amateur will always shoot colosseo in rom, bangkok skyline, new york, but those really different shot only a skilled pro can take bye bye
it's clear this industry is gonna make rich the owner of those agency and nobody more. lucky i am going the quality way...old macro agency, printing, show, woking with agent. i did this choice some years ago and now is paying, in addiction i found microstok really was a limit for creativity to the point you lost your spontaneity to create shot really different.
still uploading some garbage , photos i will put in garbage if rejected, to make some 5 600 dollar month who help finance some travel or equipment.
1197
« on: January 28, 2016, 08:24 »
well if spamming every agency with 13000 photos of mediocre quality earning cheap money, then doing other 10 job to survive...that's the new era? personally you are the kind of " photographer" i hope will go out of market soon...
1198
« on: January 27, 2016, 08:34 »
I was a contributor to Demotix since the firs days....thankst to 3 big photos i earned more there than with all my micro stock in 9 years...i mean x0000 dollar.....
today went to the website, and they redirected me to corbis.
Demotix had a distribution deal with corbis, some images were picked up by corbis staff and sold through corbis.
then corbis acquired demotix. then
those chinese, with million zillion of dollar , who pay 100 dollar month to workers, don't respect nothing, no law , anything....bought corbis, probably in a secret deal with getty and NOW, voila, demotion disappeared,our account disappeared, our photos disappeared but are in corbis most of them, they can sell and we don't know nothing, no mail from demotix or corbis, anybody to contact to know what is the future.
I saw a slow in sales there, probably they not even accounted most of sales in the last year, 20 dollar in 12 months....ok i stopped uploading contents more than a year ago.
Luckily i had only 15 pound to be received.
But this story tells a lot of the situation of micro macro news photography.
Luckily in some years will be back to normal and past situation, many amateur who earn nothing will stop dreaming of living with micro stock, many micro and macro will fail, and sane and good competition will arise to serious professionall, who live with photography,.
so far we can't blame anybody, we created this accepting micro stock. But the Demotix story is f...ing amazing especially the fact that a freedom photojournalistic agency made by normal people is now controlled by communist state called CHINA
1199
« on: June 03, 2013, 10:10 »
The point is coming for microstock...simply put is a kind of photogrpahy who will not take anybody to anywhere.
I use all the best microstock, i earn slow money but i sell only travel and reportage photo. Now contributing to big agency, selling directly, selling less but for better money. Microstock evne for Yuri is not profitable.
In my opinion this is risky for yuri....
- many here consider yuri arcurs wrks superb. yes superb in micro community, pretty standard for macro agency. igf i browse the same theme in other agency, like image source or getty itself, there are images with more creativity or at least same IQ. Yuri strong point was to create high iq images in microstock world, but these images compared to similar images in macro stock are not so amazing, i mean there are more talented photog of yuri in macro work.
- he sold a lot because it was cheap to buy. istock is falling down, maybe some buyers know yuri and want his works, but in my opinion most buyer just search and choose the most downloaded images for theme. yuri having begun selling tons of images in 2006 is high in every ranking. The download ranking explains while all te images from yuri from 2006-2008 have sold in thousand, while all the images from yuri after 2009 have sold less. In practice he's selling mostly old images. New images with new theme struggles.
- Yuri to keep is business is producing how much 50k images per year? now he has a group of 14 young "student" who are simpy producing images for him to keep the business going. In my opinion this is another blow to the industry. Now in PI there 100k more images. hes producing like crazy, but is this profitable or good for market? i doubt.
- ss will keep selling the same, people don't care of yuri works in microstock. they buy here for price, if they have tp buy same image theme from yuri at 20 dollar and from another at 1 dollar, who you think they will choose?
in practice yuri is simply telling that the feast is ended. Microstock wil be good to earn good money while keeping cost at minimum, but for big business company this scheme is unprofitable in the long run,
I dont know if he will sell rm or rf, but now many images of yui who have sold for peanuts in ss , will be sold for dollars, maybe even big dollars, from getty. And this is still confusing , in an industry already highly confused.
1200
« on: December 17, 2012, 07:53 »
im first time here. i just said the untold truth. microstock was nice, and is nice for penny, some 30 60 photog earn nice money, the rest is a bunch of hobbist who earn money to pay for lens. this at the end will destroy the market. every signals point to this. and im a microstock user, i earn some good money, but i don't thinkl microstock is a good option right now.
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