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Messages - Jo Ann Snover

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26
Shutterstock.com / Re: Shuterstock about to get eaten by Getty
« on: January 08, 2025, 08:51 »
Interesting take on the Getty/Shutterstock news from the Millwaukee Independent

https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/explainers/big-photo-getty-images-shutterstock-merge-3-7b-deal-form-new-visual-content-powerhouse/

So customers feel their situation was sidelined by the happy-talk from the two CEOs at yesterday's conference call:

"Representatives of Shutterstock have begun to offer reassurances to its subscribers, specifically telling the Milwaukee Independent that in the near term, nothing would change in how Shutterstock customers license images, videos, and other media. A company spokesperson also explained that there would be no immediate impact on how Shutterstock subscribers sourced, purchased, or managed content.

The merger is expected to offer customers more options to license content, as a benefit from the combined libraries. But despite belated efforts to reassure existing clients, the manner in which Getty Images and Shutterstock unveiled their deal has left some uneasy.

In many creative and editorial circles, the announcement sparked initial concern from businesses that rely on Shutterstock images. The fear is that the more expensive and stricter licensing by Getty Images would dictate massive changes.

Such apprehension was magnified by what critics say was an overly celebratory tone from the merging corporations by highlighting the revenue from their stocks, yet offering minimal public-facing information about the benefits to their customers.

Both companies put all their energy into celebrating the new massive value and stock revenue windfall, while completely omitting any message or information to their extensive customer base, said a consultant for a small nonprofit that relies heavily on stock photography via Reddit. That only escalates the fear that policies and pricing structures could shift with little warning. Its left people feeling anxious about how the transformation might jeopardize budgets or access to content.

More to read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1hvq4np/getty_images_and_shutterstock_to_merge/

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/getty-images-merger-shutterstock-1236103000/

https://www.fastcompany.com/91256130/getty-images-shutterstock-merge-3-7-billion-deal

The above article mentions competition from genAI images; both CEOs dismissed any impact on their licensing from genAI in the Q&A section of yesterday's conference call. Either they were just spouting the party line, or possibly that isn't really a major factor in deciding to merge?

"The merger comes at a time when companies that use still images are facing increased competition from images generated by artificial intelligence. The companies said Tuesday that they have complementary portfolios and that a merger will provide customers with a broader array still imagery, video, music, 3D, and other media."

There's a lot of overlap in the collections.

27
Apparently the stock market is happy about the announcement. In pre-market trading, SSTK and GETY are up. Over 25% for SSTK and over 44% for GETY.

I'll be on the lookout for how the two companies frame this move to their investors and the business community. There'll be better clues for us (suppliers) as to how this might unfold than the warm-and-fuzzy words about expanded opportunities and trust in the contributor e-mail :)

Here's a link to the slides of the investor presentation. Note the descriptions of "synergies" they anticipate:

Content and Product Optimization
Consolidation of IT Systems
Streamlined Operating Model

https://investor.shutterstock.com/static-files/de522e71-d1ac-4861-9427-49719876344b

Not clear (to me) where the "expanded opportunities" to content creators come from (assuming you were already with both agencies).

From the article below: "The combined operations also will present a more considerable competitor for big technology companies that are leveraging generative artificial intelligence to transform the creation of visual content and could disrupt the marketplace."

https://www.investors.com/news/getty-images-shutterstock-merge-gety-adbe-ai-trump-antitrust/

From the Q&A at the end of the conference call this morning, Peters was asked about the overlap between the two companies from a revenue perspective. He emphasized how complementary the two businesses were - different content (Getty is focused on exclusive content), SS's broader reach into small & medium businesses, more geographic reach. Hennessey joined in to emphasize differences in people, distribution channels, asset types, platform types. He said the businesses are different.

I can see why they'd want to say that, but I don't think the differences are as great as they said. I'd guess that a major portion of the heavily licensed content (versus the total collection for both) is overlap. Additionally, when you have theoretically exclusive stock images - of an isolated apple, a potted plant, etc. - they look largely the same, and can easily be substituted with a similar non-exclusive item.

Asked about additional opportunities for the combined companies, Peters said he saw investment accelerating delivery of improvements (search, customer service, genAI) versus finding new ones.

Peters also said that they did not see any reduction of licensing content as a result of genAI. Hennessey said they had not seen any negative impact, just growth opportunities "1+1=3". Don't ask me to explain the quote!


29
I know no more than was posted this afternoon. Not clear to me how a combined company would be better off from the investor point of view - both are struggling to grow at the rate investors want to see.

From the contributor point of view, both agencies have a history of forcing down royalty rates, so there's probably not much good news for suppliers.

Happy New Year!

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/getty-images-explores-merger-with-shutterstock-bloomberg-news-reports-2025-01-03/

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/getty-images-exploring-merger-shutterstock-212322433.html

https://seekingalpha.com/news/4392448-getty-images-soars-on-report-that-shutterstock-is-interested-in-a-merger

Seeking Alpha incorrectly says that Getty went public in 2008 - they were bought by Hellman & Friedman in 2008 and taken private.

Probably unrelated: Adobe's stock dropped to $430.57 this afternoon after UBS issued a report describing "headwinds" in trying to monetize AI

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/c900c577-54a7-3e19-8e4a-db5d77ad79e8/adobe-stock-falls-as-ubs.html

From Barrons: "Adobe has increasingly embraced AI, rolling out its Firefly suite and incorporating generative AI tools into its flagship photo-editing software. However, UBS said early leaders like OpenAI, Runway, and Midjourney may outpace Adobe in the battle for a market the bank described as fiercely competitive."

30
https://petapixel.com/2024/12/23/us-senate-passes-bill-that-makes-it-easier-for-photographers-to-film-in-national-parks/

"...the EXPLORE Act will no longer require photographers or videographers to get filming permits because they may be paid for the footage or images." The group has to be six or fewer people and has to be in an area where people are allowed in the parks.

There are other elements in the act as well:

https://www.rei.com/action/network/campaign/americas-outdoor-recreation
https://www.tpl.org/media-room/passage-of-the-explore-act-reflects-a-transformative-milestone-for-outdoor-access-in-america

31
This morning the total collection on Adobe Stock was 604,562,465. Four years ago (Nov 30 2020) it was 238,609,759. Today, the genAI portion of the collection was 205,613,425 - very close to the total collection size 4 years earlier.

Adobe Stock's math is strange - if you exclude AI images it says the total is 399,025,915. Add that to the genAI total and an extra 76,875 images appear. I'm assuming the numbers are mostly right and don't worry about 100k here or there :)

Yesterday I looked at the entire collection sorted by downloads and noted that the first few pages were almost all free items (they're marked). On the first page, 91/100 were freebies; on page 2 it was 78/100. I'm sure Adobe would argue that the freebies bring in overall business to the site, but it's sad that all time best sellers are so drowned out by freebies.

When I looked at the genAI collection sorted by downloads, what stood out was how most of them could very well have been traditional stock images/illustrations/3D renders.

The top selling genAI image is an isolated red arrow - and that's on page 4 of the entire collection bestseller list. A fine simple curved arrow.

There are over 750k images for a search on red arrow (about 114k genAI).

Looking in the Discord group where new contributors ask about why their AI images were rejected it became clear that there were some truly terrible images being submitted. I'd previously focused on my (growing) collection of truly terrible genAI images accepted The Apple logos have gone, but the quality of what's getting accepted doesn't help buyers. There's also repetitive items - I made a screenshot this morning of 53 near-identical Christmas arrangements on a wood table - candles, cinnamon sticks, pine cones, etc. from one contributor. All of us who've been around a while have received rejections for "similars". Not sure what value there is for customers in 53 horizontal versions of the same scene.

Then there was the white "bumblebee" with 8 legs, my fire hazard collection (candles setting the house on fire); staircases that'll kill you, crabs & lobsters not found on planet earth; a Happy Thanksgiving word sign with the T and the g cut off; "MCRRY CHRISTMAS"; "AGEESIM"..... All recent acceptances. All useless except to illustrate that genAI produces pretty slop a lot of the time. And which should not have been accepted into a top tier collection of stock.

And ADBE is down again this morning.

32
Shutterstock.com / Re: Shuttrstock Q3 2024 results
« on: December 17, 2024, 00:54 »

.when were they ever not "cutting royalties from contributors"!?

Believe it or not, back in the beginning they did steadily increase royalties - from 20 cents to 23 (for those of us around during the buggy start of FTP uploads) to 25 cents and then the tiered system that paid 38 cents.

All the agencies were much more reasonable when they didnt have content and were afraid to lose us

33
Adobe Stock / Re: Top sales on Adobe Stock
« on: December 16, 2024, 13:24 »
All together of my 3 adobe accounts i got $18 one day, ...

I don't think you've been doing this long enough to have much perspective. $18 for the day is a slow day - for even one account.

You have the enthusiasm part well covered. Now you need to understand the market, your buyers and try to provide useful content, not just any-old-content

34
Shutterstock.com / Re: Shuttrstock Q3 2024 results
« on: December 16, 2024, 13:16 »
Thought it worth adding an article from early November that talked about the problems with Shutterstock's acquisition spree and suggesting it was an interesting short opportunity for investors:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shutterstock-inc-sstk-bear-case-162730125.html

"SSTKs top-line growth has largely been driven by acquisitions, a trend that may not continue . . . This reliance on acquisitions, combined with a gradual decline in subscriber numbers and revenue per subscriber metrics, signals a troubling trend that management has not adequately addressed."

"Furthermore, data from ALTD shows a notable decline in e-commerce sales that contradicts management's assertions, further validating the bearish thesis. Concerns regarding management integrity are heightened by prior misrepresentations about the performance of their e-commerce segment, which raises questions about the reliability of their segment reporting and overall transparency. "

That second quote is intriguing. It would be a big deal if the reports weren't accurate

35
Adobe Stock / Re: Top sales on Adobe Stock
« on: December 16, 2024, 07:59 »
For images, extended licenses, at full price, produce a royalty of $26.40. They're much less common than they used to be (custom licenses that cover more uses is my guess as to the reason). I had 2 in October and a sprinkling earlier in the year.

I had posted about some very high royalties (again for images) back in 2018 -  $94.05 each. Other than "custom", I have no idea what those license details were.

36
Adobe Stock / Re: AS Contributor Survey
« on: December 16, 2024, 07:49 »
Thanks for the link - I didn't see email (and I did check my spam/junk folder). I completed the survey.

Can you elaborate on why Adobe is surveying contributors?


37
Apparently announced on Friday:

https://venturebeat.com/ai/shutterstock-pioneers-research-license-model-with-lightricks-lowering-barriers-to-ai-training-data/

"The new licensing model addresses a critical challenge in AI development: the high cost of accessing quality training data. It enables companies to start with a smaller research license for testing and experimentation before committing to more expensive commercial licenses."

Later on the article says contributors get 20% of the data licensing revenue.

https://www.gurufocus.com/news/2632851/shutterstock-inc-sstk-partners-with-lightricks-for-ai-video-model-training

https://www.stocktitan.net/news/SSTK/lightricks-partners-with-shutterstock-for-video-training-data-to-55famkrcfdtz.html

In the last article above it refers to SS's "billion-plus" asset library. Not sure where that comes from - the web site says over 530 million assets

38
Adobe Stock / Adobe's quarterly results
« on: December 12, 2024, 16:29 »
Adobe (ADBE) announced their quarterly results Dec 11 after the market closed. The stock dropped in after hours trading and continued to fall today - closed today at $474.63 a share, down $75.30 (13.69%) from yesterday.

The revenue and earnings for the quarter were good but the lower than expected growth for the coming fiscal year disappointed investors. They're worried that Adobe isn't able to "monetize" AI tools.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/analysts-revisit-adobe-stock-price-123216031.html

https://www.investors.com/news/technology/adobe-stock-ai-monetization-in-focus/?src=A00220

From a Barron's article that's behind a paywall:

"Investors are concerned the company isnt yet seeing major gains from its AI offerings, which it has been monetizing for about a year now. One of those offerings is Firefly, which gives Adobe users the ability to use gen-AI to create images and videos from text, edit images using AI, and more. " . . . We dont see GenAI helping to bend the growth curve in the foreseeable future. And [with] guide suggesting growth is teetering on single digits, we think this will weigh on valuations,

From our perspective as contributors, I think the major concern for 2025 would be that our content will be used as needed to support their "AI tools and features are driving revenue/profit growth" message which may end up with lower royalty revenues for us. As we have been promised 33% of either customer payment or a computed payment for unlimited plans, that can still be true but meaningless. 33% of eff-all is eff-all.

The other day Adobe and Box announced a collaboration via Adobe Express. There was no specific mention of stock images (versus the customer's own product images) but if these are very low cost/high usage plans, we could see our "custom" royalties drop.

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/12/10/adobe-express-for-box-bringing-together-creativity-collaboration-in-the-cloud

One analyst noted that Adobe had pointed to slower subscriber growth:

https://www.gurufocus.com/news/2631524/adobe-shares-slide-as-revenue-forecast-misses-expectations-ai-competition-looms

Adobe's slides and press release are on their Investor Relations page:

https://www.adobe.com/investor-relations.html

Adobe's CEO noted in his statement at the beginning of the earnings call that Firefly-powered generations had surpassed 16 billion. At first that struck me as a very big number for a not-very-good genAI tool. Uncharitably I first thought it meant that you had to generate so many times to get anything usable, thus driving up their counts!

I think the odd phrasing means that they're counting the Remove tool (Phtoshop and Lightroom) and the various generative expand options - those are OK for very low res images or very small sections, but are otherwise not up to scratch. I don't know how they're tracking every use of the Remove tool with Generative AI turned on, but assume they must be to calculate credits usage.

So the big number may be accurate, but not really comparable to Midjourney or any other genAI tool


Edited Dec 13 to add an article link:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lack-roi-ai-investments-rattles-190529459.html

"The earnings report is missing one key metric: Return on AI investments. In fact, it would be more accurate to say that the company does not even have a metric to measure those returns with. Investors can be very short-sighted, and they want to see visible improvements. AI offerings were supposed to improve the companys subscriber base. They didnt. The investments were supposed to aid the growth of a company that was otherwise reaching a stage of maturity. They didnt. So what can the company do better during the next year so that 2026 is different?

Thats the million-dollar question that shareholders want answered. The companys strategy will become clear with time. But with modest growth prospects, and reliance on share buybacks to reward investors, many shareholders are likely looking for a better investment."

ADBE was down again today; dropped as low as $456, but closed at $465.69.

Edited Dec 16: ADBE down today, closing at $461.53

The total collection size is now 603,641,179. In the last 6 days (Dec 10 - 16) it has grown by over 5 million (5,159,959). Over 4.2 million of that 5 million were genAI.

Edited Dec 17: ADBE down, closing at $455.23. That's down almost $100 a share since results were announced last week (closed at $549.93 Dec 11).

39
https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/12/24318924/openai-sora-ai-video-generator-hands-on

I don't do video but thought this overview of his experiences might be interesting for those who do.

"Nothing that Sora generated from scratch was actually usable, though. Its definitely not ready for entertainment or commercial work that needs narrative coherence, and youd really have to reach to even use this as a replacement for a quick flash of stock footage."

"Its early days and there are some obvious issues to iron out, but nothing Ive seen so far makes me think that Sora is going to revolutionize video production overnight." The "pro" subscription is $200/month and was not tested

40
Adobe Stock / Re: What's your weekly ranking and how many images?
« on: December 09, 2024, 16:46 »
...If I add grain in Photoshop 80% of you would assume it's a real photo.
https://i.ibb.co/mBmJr5p/Universal-Upscaler-dc3663a9-364e-434a-978f-356af59f4967-grain.jpg

This just screams fake.

Arguably not too different from the over-airbrushed, liquify-filter, skin smoothed fashion covers that have been around for years, but now those are churned out in industrial quantities, not handsful.

The masses of getAI people images on Adobe Stock look like a clone army of slick and polished humanoids.

The main issue is the size of the market for stock images. It's not growing anything like as fast (at an educated guess) as the supply of content. And there's only a portion of the buyer population who want the shiny-happy-fakey humanoids. If what was being produced with genAI substantially increased the size of the customer group or the volume of content they're licensing this might be a game changer.

As it is, the more of the look-alike content being generated just increases competition for the buyers who do want that look.

41
Adobe Stock / Re: What's your weekly ranking and how many images?
« on: December 09, 2024, 10:35 »
The hype around AI tools far outstrips useful, reliable business cases at this point. C-suite is talking stuff up for investors to keep their stock price up, and even "experts" get caught out when relying on ChatGPT & similar (not forgetting the lawyer who got fined for misleading the court with invented case citations)

https://stanforddaily.com/2024/12/04/hancock-admitted-to-ai-use/

I review the recent genAI acceptances into Adobe Stock's collection and there is so much mangled, unreal junk. Beyond a personal aesthetic loathing for the plastic-fantastic people - even if they have all their fingers and in the right place - the attempts to represent objects, places, animals, people, tools, equipment, etc. are still deeply substandard. Posting examples seems a waste of time as Adobe clearly doesn't care.

I think we should have a similar terminology for the image creations gone awry:

https://undark.org/2023/04/06/chatgpt-isnt-hallucinating-its-bullshitting/

If you can't rely on AI tools, they don't save time when you have to edit/proofread everything to be sure you don't trash your career.  Unclear yet if Small Language Models will improve things?

https://www.itpro.com/technology/artificial-intelligence/small-language-models-set-for-take-off-next-year

No clue where this will all end up, but looking with a clear eye at the current realities versus getting rapturous over potential seems the only safe/sane approach.

42
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobestock Review Time
« on: December 06, 2024, 18:42 »
There was a thread about lowest custom rate on Adobe, but I can't find it right now, so I'll post here.   
Today I had lowest yet - 30 cents.  Until today lowest was 0.31

Over the last few weeks I've seen several $0.30 custom royalties - on Nov 27 & 28 as well as yesterday.

I believe we were told explicitly that there is no floor to the custom rates - it's 33% of what the buyer pays. That might be a constructed price based on total downloads the previous day for unlimited plans

https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/adobe-stock-announcing-pro-edition-for-creative-cloud-for-teams-and-enterprises/msg563164/#msg563164

https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/announcing-adobe-creative-cloud-express/

43
General Stock Discussion / Re: Adobe editorial photo requirements?
« on: December 06, 2024, 18:32 »
There's a lot of good contributor information on Adobe's web site in the contributor guide

https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/illustrative-editorial-content.html

They don't accept much - things that Shutterstock or iStock might be happy with. I found a number of items accepted elsewhere didn't meet their illustrative editorial guidelines.

44
General Stock Discussion / Re: I win the lowest payment contest.
« on: December 04, 2024, 11:32 »
Look at your Getty/iStock Connect statement - you'll see lots of royalties less than one cent. Not that it's a contest I'd want to win :)

Looking at my November statement (for October royalties) I think 0.42 cents (i.e. $0.0042) was the lowest royalty for a license (i.e. not Cost per View).


45
Adobe Stock / Question about ancient history (2018)
« on: December 01, 2024, 15:59 »
I was looking at November's totals and comparing to prior years. For Adobe Stock I noticed a surprising $$ total for Nov 2018 and dug a little to see why.

The number of downloads was only slightly higher than Nov 2024 and the much higher $$ was a result of 3 custom royalties of $94.05 each. That sort of number was often seen in SS SOD's but I don't think that happened at AS where extended licenses have netted us about $26 and the low volume subscriptions $3.30 royalties.

These were images, not video.

I looked at the old forum posts here to see if I'd asked about these nice bonuses, but apparently not. I'd love them to come back, but I'm not holding my breath

Anyone else who was with Adobe Stock in 2018 see large royalties in November?

46
The default order when you do a search on Adobe Stock (at least in the US) is "Relevence". Many days and with many searches, the top half of the first page is almost all AI images. IMO the massive volume of new (and generally low quality) genAI acceptances means that leaving it to Adobe's software to sort it out is wishful thinking. That sort of thing used to work when collections were smaller, inspections actually meant something and new work was a smaller proportion of the total collection size.

In five days - from Nov 21 to yesterday afternoon (Nov 25) Adobe Stock's total collection grew by just over 6 million items (6,075,697).

Nearly 5.5 million (5,499,162) were genAI.

Let those numbers sink in. And think about the possibility that the genAI content will slowly drive away everything else, and then buyers will drift away when they're bored with the sameness of everything left. Forget what's in my best interests as an individual contributor; Adobe Stock is taking a huge gamble that (a) genAI nearly-like-real-life content is OK with buyers and (b) that if it is, in time buyers will be able to find cheaper places to get it (Freepik's genAI collection is now 168.18 million) or make it themselves.

I've been licensing stock for just over 20 years. I remember a big celebration at iStock when they reached 1 million images...

47
There is something wrong with the bestseller lists, I think it is being manipulated.

That portfolio is chock full of things that should never have been approved. But regarding the recent top seller list, it's by design a strange beast, so doesn't really tell us much of interest.

Here's the explanation text on how it's calculated:

"For each asset type we generate a list of 200 contributors who made the most sales in the previous week, only considering their uploads from the past six months. Then, we order the list based on each contributors uploads/sales ratio, and the top 10 contributors on this list are featured as Recent top sellers.

Contributors are eligible to be featured at most once every five weeks. This selection process is subject to change in the future."


So lots of images could be selling much, much better than the ones featured. If the huge sellers were uploaded 7 months or more ago then they aren't shown; and the total volume of sales from the 6 months or less group could potentially be very small.

When you consider the tsunami of genAI content being added of late, one would expect genAI-heavy portfolios to be well represented in that list.

And given the very erratic inspection speeds - some taking many months and some only a few days - the recent sellers list could become very skewed.

48
...
Over all, the collection grew 32% between the end of April 2024 and today, but the genAI portion of the collection grew 82% versus the human-made portion grew 6.1%.
...
do we have actual numbers in each case? 6% of a very large number can be much greater than 82% of a much smaller number

Adobe Stock growth Apr 30 - Nov 21 2024; roughly 7 months

total collection: 139,801,939 (576,474,125 up from 436,672,186) - up 32%

genAI: 117,178,564 (181,469,399 up from 64,290,835) - up 82%

human made: 22,623,375 (395,004,726 up from 372,381,351) - up 6.1%

human made asset types

photos growth 9,936,406 (228,291,001 up from 218,354,595) - up 4.5%

videos shrunk 3,202,090 (15,884,530 down from 19,086,620) - down 16.8%

illos growth 1,990,088 (33,691,112 up from 31,701,024) - up 6.3%

genAI asset types

photos 49,408,590 (71,313,378 up from 21,904,788) - up 126%

illos 65,134,599 (106,056,450 up from 40,921,851) - up 59%

videos 846,305 (1,237,747 up from 391,442) - up 116%

49
iStockPhoto.com / Re: October Stats
« on: November 21, 2024, 15:42 »
My October payment arrived earlier today - it matched exactly the amount shown on my PDF statement. I'm in the US FWIW.

50
Contributors to Adobe Stock won't be surprised to hear that the genAI content in the collection has been increasing faster than the human-made content.

Over all, the collection grew 32% between the end of April 2024 and today, but the genAI portion of the collection grew 82% versus the human-made portion grew 6.1%.

The human-made video collection shrank over that period - by over 3 million images; 16.8%. I assume that means some content left - does anyone know about that? It's not the Pond5 content which was much larger and left in July 2022.

I have no sales data, obviously, but I would guess that the genAI collection size is growing faster than genAI sales - too many kinds of content genAI isn't very good at and massive piles of similars for the things it is.

Possibly the ability to modify Adobe Stock items with genAI and then download will motivate buyers? It's a shame that we will only see "custom" in the royalties list so can't know - unless we find an image in use - if it's part of that program. I'll definitely be interested to see what impact that new feature has on our earnings.

As I don't upload genAI content, my sales would have evaporated if buyers have given up on traditional images. October 2024 was slightly ahead of October 2023 (my portfolio is small, just under 2500 images, and has grown very modestly this year. Nowhere near the 32+% growth in the collection).

Adobe Stock's total collection earlier today was 576,474,125 . For comparison, Shutterstock (as reported on the bottom of their landing page) went from 485+ million at the end of 2023 to 520+ million at the end of September 2024 - about 9.3% growth.

Anyone else have thoughts about Adobe Stock marketplace?

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