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Messages - trevarthan

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26
This last one is genuinely grainy. I'm not going to fault the reviewers here. I think I might be able to solve the focus problems by tilting the lens and using f8 instead of f16. My only other option is to focus stack. Then, to remove the grain, I think I'd have to do an exposure bracket and blend in post. This would be challenging, as the light is constantly changing at that time of night, but I'm going to try it and see what I can accomplish.

27
F16 at 36 mp is hard to pull off even with the best lenses. If it's not pin sharp at 100 percent, just downsize to 24 mp. That way you still sell the file as XXL on other sites that will pay you for that size.

Sigh. Apparently that isn't a magic bullet either. I just had this one rejected even after downsizing to 25mp:
July 30 2014_21.jpg by Trevarthan, on Flickr

Reasons:
Focus--Subject is blurry, too soft, or out of focus when viewed at full resolution.
Noise--Image contains excessive noise, grain, artifacts and/or is poorly rasterized.

28
Comment to the picture above:
So my advice to you, if you want to become good in stock:
Shoot icons. If you can even make your own new icon, you get en the several ciffers dls pr image.
Shoot keywords, and not artsy pictures.
Think customers, and forget about fancy lenses and techniques.

What do you mean by icons?

29
I avoid f16 cuz of diffraction issues and resort to focus stacking (at f8-11) for the DOF, if needed, and if possible.

I see you used a 24 PC-E lens for this shot.....did you try using some tilt and a larger f-stop?....back to my LF days.

I did not. I often tell myself I'm going to use tilt, but unless I'm doing tabletop, I rarely do. Even with live view, I have a hard time figuring out the focus when tilted. I guess I need to practice with that more.

I need to research and practice some focus stacking too. I think that would have worked well for the waterfall image. I only had that thought when I was home editing.

One of the things I dislike about the 24mm PC-e is that the DOF scale goes from f16 to f8. There's no f11. I've got a 24mm f1.4g too, and it has f11, but no f8. So I've just been standardizing on f16. It looks like I need to figure something else out though.

30
Downsize everything.

It's looking like that's what I'm going to have to do. I'm starting to think f16 is just too soft for stock. I'm currently downsampling from 35mp to 25mp. We'll see if that works.

Alternative might be some sort of focus stacking. I'm just not sure how that would work.

31
I tweaked the sharpness settings in Lightroom CC. Maybe f16 was adding more diffraction than I thought. Maybe I just don't know how far I need to push Lightroom yet. This might have been my first legitimate rejection in a while.

32
Submitted a contact us about it and they're sticking to their guns this time:


Quote
Dear Jesse,

Your e-mail is appreciated.

I have checked your image in question, and I feel the review was correct.

Unfortunately, this image is not perfectly sharp at 100%. You may check & correct your RAW conversion settings, or try to upload in a smaller size (instead of 34 Mpixel size, you may upload it in 20-25 Mpixel).

Please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.

Best regards,

Mate Toth
Contributor Success
Shutterstock

I don't get it.

33
On a side note how do you like the D810?  I'm currently using the D800 but am thinking of 'upgrading' for the improved Live View display (I do a lot of macro and would like to be able to focus using a 4X loop on the LCD with Live View....not a good enough display on the D800 to be reliable).

I absolutely love it. It's very similar to my old D3S, three times as capable, and half the price. Live view is a real pleasure. Resolution is great, and high ISO noise is in the same class as the d3s. I'm not sure I'd buy one if I already had a d800, but it was an easy decision for me and exceeds my expectations. Can't wait to upgrade again in another four years to 70mp. I mean, Moore's Law, right? I'm just wondering if my glass will still be able to handle 70mp. We might all be buying new glass by then.

34
istock decided they rejected my cutting board photo in error. This is their response:

Quote
Hello

Apologies for the delay in responding to your ticket.

You did state that you made it yourself so I will approve the file. Apologies for the error.

Your file has been approved.  Please allow 24 to 48 hours for the file to appear within your portfolio.

Regards
Scout

But wait, the saga of erroneous rejections continues! Just today, Shutterstock decided to reject my photo of the local Benton Falls:
Benton Falls by Trevarthan, on Flickr

This is a 15 second exposure, taken at f16 and the hyperfocal length, on a sturdy tripod, using a D810 and a 24mm pc-e. Everything is in focus. Their reason? "Focus--Subject is blurry, too soft, or out of focus when viewed at full resolution."

You've got to be kidding me.

35
As far as I understand it, even if I sold the cuttingboard, I would still own the copyright to it, unless I sold that explicitly. So yeah, I'll just submit a property release. No big deal. Thanks for clearing that up. Too bad the rejection reason wasn't clearer.

36
You think that's what that rejection means? I mean, I'd be happy to submit a property release, but reading that rejection reason, it just didn't seem like that was what they wanted to me. I interpreted that as istock wanting a more detailed description.

37
Received another nonsensical rejection today. This time, surprisingly, it was istockphoto who rejected a piece that shutterstock had already accepted. Here's the shutterstock photo:

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=204443335

And here's the istockphoto rejection:

https://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/43709924/2/stock-photo-43709924-3d-cutting-board.jpg

"Please provide a focused description for the work of art featured in this image. Aim to describe the artwork as well as possible (the artist, date of creation, location, etc). Works of art created by someone other than yourself must be free of copyright protection to be considered royalty-free.

In your description, please include any valuable information regarding the artist/ownership of the original artwork that will assist us in determining that the work of art is not subject to copyright protection. Make sure that your description is clear, helpful and targeted to the client who may be interested in your image (and not to the inspector).

If this work of art is indeed under copyright protection, a property release signed by the copyright holder will need to be provided. Thank you."

I'm quite sure I made it clear that *I* was the original artist, and that I created this cuttingboard in my basement in December 2013. I'm not sure what else they could possibly want. However, it's impossible to prove that, because every microstock site has a habit of deleting everything about the photo AFTER rejecting it. I don't see a way to see the tags and/or description I submitted, but I know it was at least as descriptive as the shutterstock description. I'm starting to think they do this precisely so that you won't be able to call them on their crap. Sigh. Infuriating.

38
This is the response I received:

Quote
Dear Jesse,

Your e-mail is appreciated.

I have checked your image from your e-mails, and I feel the review was incorrect.

Please consider a resubmission, and add the following Note To Review:

 ATTN REVIEWER: See an Admin about this batch (re:case #01055857)

Please remember: This note does not guarantee approval.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions.

Best regards,

Mate Toth
Contributor Success
Shutterstock

While I appreciate the affirmation that this rejection was incorrect, it leaves me with a lot of questions, such as: Why was it rejected if it was incorrect? If I really didn't select "Editorial: Yes" from the drop down (and I don't think I did), why was the reviewer even given the option to select this rejection reason? How many other photos have been rejected erroneously? What is the rate of human error in this process?

As a not-yet-successful contributor, I appreciate correct and helpful feedback. Incorrect or confusing feedback hurts everyone involved because revenue generating images might not ever be seen by the customer.

If I had 300+ images in my portfolio, I might not care. But what if the one rejected erroneously is the one that would have sold well? I think the current microstock review process has a lot of room for improvement. Success should be gauged purely by revenue, not the ability to appease a reviewer's feelings or moods.

I once shot a stock photo on assignment for a local graphics artist. I shot a ton of photos and put them on dvd. I was positive she would pick a certain photo because *I* thought it was the best. She didn't. She picked a photo I *hated*. And she picked it because it was perfect for the vision in her mind and what she wanted to do with it.

I think this is a lesson the microstock websites need to learn. Just because YOU think a photo is good or bad doesn't mean OTHERS are or are not willing to pay for it.

39
You wouldn't get that rejection unless you submitted it as editorial. If you didn't submit it was editorial, you would have gotten the "Needs model release"  or "needs property release" rejection. You wouldn't need a property release on the bridge. It's a public bridge, and it's not the main subject of the photo anyway. There's also no graffiti there, even under the bridge cause I've been there and photographed it.

Did you accidentally click the editorial pull down?

No. I did not.

Also, it's probably not a good idea to submit images so similar so close to each other. They compete for attention. The goal with Shutterstock is to get good quick sales so your image rises in popularity. You can't do that if you're splitting those sales between two images.

That's no excuse for choosing an incorrect rejection reason. It's not helpful.

40
There isn't a court in the land that would uphold the copyright of graffiti illegally scrawled on a public surface, is there? Come on.

41
I see nothing on my little model at 100%. Her shoes have no markings, her diaper has no visible tags, and her dress is white and tagless. The buildings are blurred. This was shot at f2 with the focus on my daughter. Wouldn't that be enough to avoid any potential issues?

42
Ok, here's a classic rejection scenario that I don't understand:

Shutterstock approved this photo on 7/12/2014: https://www.flickr.com/photos/trevarthan/14629342151/
Heartened by the approval, I submitted another from the same shoot, on the same tripod, in the exact same location, with my model in only a slightly different spot on the bridge: https://www.flickr.com/photos/trevarthan/14445933148/in/photostream/

I thought, surely that will be accepted too, right? Why wouldn't it? Nope. Rejected on 07/13/2014 for "Editorial Caption--Image requires proper caption and must be tagged as editorial."

I can't work like this. You can't take one photo and then reject practically the exact same photo for something ridiculous like Editorial Caption, when it wasn't even submitted as an Editorial photo in the first place. I supplied a model release for both photos.

43
Shutterstock accepted this the same day I submitted it: http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-204443335/stock-photo--d-cutting-board-this-is-a-d-cutting-board-i-made-in-the-dark-wood-is-walnut-the-red-wood.html?src=B747ZsNdZi2ZosrW3vDLpQ-1-0

So, yeah, all I have to do is spend 10,000 hours woodworking and take a couple of photos. No problem! :p Seriously though, it just goes to show I haven't been thinking about stock in years. I've had this photo sitting around since December 2013 and just now thought to submit it.

44
Ha. Yeah, if you want to see some really bad stuff, you have to look at my stock portfolio on istock. I haven't touched it since 2011. It's really embarrassing. Most of the stuff that made it past the filters was 2008-2010 spray and pray Nikon D80. Way before I bought my current equipment and had a clue pounded into me by time and a few kind souls.

I lost interest for about 3 years because nearly everything I shot with the new equipment was rejected, including a lot of the stuff I did in that experimental code + macro period (I'm a software engineer for a living, so that sort of thing really fascinates me). I just gave up and put it down for a while.

I tend to be extremely tenacious, however. I have a history of putting things down for years, only to strike a home run later, so I think it's fine. I probably just needed a break.

disorderly, worldplanet, and anyone else who suggested it: I just switched my camera to RAW+JPEG for the first time. It was done grudgingly, because I really prefer to do everything in camera, but it sounds like I can't do that with stock and get the results I want, so I'll just have to deal with it. Thank you for the suggestion.

Also, whoever suggested it, thank you for the book recommendation. I've been reading "Taking Stock: Make Money in Microstock Creating Photos That Sell" all morning on my iPad. I'm only 13% in, but if nothing else, I've really enjoyed reading about the history of istockphoto and seeing example images and why the photographers think they work and sell well. I think this book is really going to help.

45
Checked for sensor spots on the d3s today. They're everywhere. Ordered a new sensor swab kit. Wish the D800 worked better with my 24mm 1.4g and 85mm 1.4g. I'd order one so I wouldn't have to swap lenses so often.

istock accepted the bridge photo too: http://www.istockphoto.com/photo/chattanooga-market-street-bridge-at-dusk-43084254

Go figure. I mean, I'm glad. I just wish there was more consistency in this game.

46
I wonder if the shake you're seeing is because the images are slightly out of focus? Thinking back, I used autofocus on the Delta Queen and the Dusk photo.

I switched to manual focus and live preview for the fireworks image. I was surprised to find auto focus was almost always off that night.

I ran some tests a few days later and had trouble getting perfect focus from the 24mm in low light at f1.4. I thought it was the lens or camera at first, but testing seemed to indicate it was the light. I had a moment of panic because google says the D800 has chronic focus issues with this lens, but further research indicated the d3s was solid.

47
Couple of things. I note that you don't watermark your flickr photos, which is fine, but it's trivial to download your images at the 2048 size (I just did. In Chrome, Inspect element and then use the URL to open the JPEG). I'd stick to smaller sizes or put a small watermark for anything you're selling.

I'm aware of that. If I ever found someone stealing my work I'd be concerned. I never have, yet.

I think that some technical weaknesses could be addressed that would increase your acceptances (I just looked at the first four as you said those had been rejected). On your fireworks shot, I can see multiple sensor spots in the sky, it looks washed out (insufficient contrast) and I prefer shots like this if the perspective distortion is corrected. So somehting like this (I only uploaded a small version as it's unwatermarked)

This is great news. I can fix technical problems.

I do like the perspective correction. I don't know how to do that in software. I've only used my tilt shift to do it in the past. I guess I should learn.

I think your version looks over saturated. Is it possible this aspect is personal preference?

Regarding the sensor spots.... I'm aware I have a few. I bought a cleaning kit years ago, but I've been hesitant to use it. Seems risky. I'll have to suck it up and just do it. Sensor spots are the one thing I really hate about digital. I change lenses all the time and it seems like I have spots hours after cleaning. Sigh.

The shots are very grainy (the other three as well) and have a slightly over sharpened look. Are you shooting RAW or JPEG, and if RAW, how are you processing images? Given the D3S reputation for great low light performance I'm a bit surprised (but I use Canon so I don't really have any experience with Nikon performance).

I shoot jpeg. I try not to process the images, but these looked a bit better after a pass in lightroom. I tweaked the exposure and tried to minimize the noise.

The Delta Queen shot looks shaky - you said it was hand held and it probably should have been on a tripod. The same for the blue railing shot.

Can you explain to me why you think it looks shaky? I don't see it, and if I can't see it, I won't ever be able to avoid it. I took this shot at 1/125. I thought that would be more than enough to eliminate any shake. I was on a ladder, so a tripod wasn't really an option. I shot the blue railing at 1/125 also. What shutter speed would eliminate shake hand held?

For stock, I think the blue railing shot would work better if a little more of the bridge and rail in the foreground were in focus - a background blurred is great, but one part of the girder sharp just isn't enough.

That's good feedback. Bridge mostly in focus, background out. I can try that. I thought it worked, personally. I stared at that image, and I loved it as-is. But I've received similar feedback from others on this image. It works for art, but not stock, I guess.

I also think you need to do a little more post processing on your shots to clean up minor flaws (like sensor spots, and it's surprising iStock didn't catch that - they used to be so good) and get your contrast and color optimal (I don't mean super saturated although I know there's a lot of that about).

I don't see the contrast or color issues, personally. I agree with the sensor spots and I'm surprised nobody mentioned it either if you saw it. I never saw them when I examined the image, so I thought the background hid any defects fairly well, but I admittedly didn't look very hard.

I don't think you need to shoot different stuff if you don't want to, but I think you're missing the technical bar a bit on the shots you like to do, at least as far as stock is concerned.

Fair enough. Again, I can fix technical. I appreciate you taking the time to look.

48
Your daughter is adorable and I think your people shots in general are strong.

[...]

So in addition to thinking about what buyers need and photographing people which I think you are quite good at, don't stop shooting landscapes and bridges. Wait for the light, think about your composition and go with a small aperture to overcome the inspector's bias.

Thank you. I think that is excellent advice.

One thing I noticed in your still life and interior shots is that you are not careful to remove extraneous objects and unwanted reflections either by using a gobo or in post, and you're not prop-styling the rooms or even the still life set ups. You need to pare down those kinds of shots to the essentials and style them with stock in mind, not just do a quick grab shot and hope it will sell.

You know, those weren't shot with stock in mind at all, and I never even tried to upload them as such. Missed opportunity, I suppose. You're right.

49
You've picked a particularly difficult subject here.

Agreed.

  Using your Flickr shot as an example, I would suggest a smaller aperture (get more in sharp focus), a higher ISO to compensate, and then careful use of noise reduction software when needed.

I'm pretty sure the 24mm f1.4G is as sharp as it is going to get at f8. Going to f11 might have gotten more in focus, but it wouldn't have improved sharpness of the subject. By f16, this lens starts getting less sharp due to diffraction.

Or just shoot under easier conditions until you build up your portfolio.

I think you're right. What frustrates me is that I'm not shooting under easier conditions to make better photos, or even to improve customer satisfaction. I'm doing it to appease a reviewer.

50
As an anecdote for why I think the rejection reasons are often an excuse rather than a legitimate reason, I once shot high key macro photos of individual coffee beans, then wrote a software program to arrange them as alphabetical letters as part of a huge high definition image. istock rejected this one: http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/15314796/2/stock-photo-15314796-capital-letter-k-in-coffee-beans.jpg

Saying: "We found the overall composition of this file's lighting could be improved. Some of the technical aspects that can all limit the usefulness of a file are:

-Flat/dull colors
-Direct on-camera flash and/or flash fall-off (bright subject, dark background)
-Harsh lighting with blown-out highlights that lack details and/or distracting shadows
- Distracting lens flares
-Incorrect white balance"

The individual beans were perfect high key shots with a macro lens. I spent hours, if not days, getting the lighting perfect and shot every bean in a highly controlled environment.

In later letter combination rejections, they complained about the image composition.

I mean, just say you think it won't sell. Don't make stuff up.

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