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Messages - Lowls
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301
« on: June 10, 2023, 06:08 »
Lowls, was the military able to find or detain a living or dead alien or humanoid?
Historically yes there have always been rumours and statements by witnesses. Their credibility is another matter. Some good some bad. The Roswell incident being the most spoken about. There have been 4 ish autopsy videos leaked online. 1 is certainly fake. The second is possibly fake. I posted the third which is the most convincing earlier on in this thtrad but for me it has several issues. The traditional Y cut for autopsy isn't used. The skin flaps behave incorrectly using human tissue as a basis. But it does behave like dolphin and whale flesh. The tissue isn't connected to the bones of what look like ribs. It should be. It would be in earthly mammals. He uses pliers to deal with the ribs. This isn't the case usually. It's usually heavy duty loppers or cutting tools. Nitrol gloves. These exist but I'm not sure they did in the date claimed for the video. I'd say for certain they didn't but I need to do more checking. The scalpel used os extremely unusual. I cant find it as an antique or modern type. But Google can be tenuous. When he explores the abdominal cavity he brushes a small worm like structure out of the way. He brushed it back to the small intestine area (using human biology). But that would be one long piece there shouldn't be stringy bits. In a human it couldn't get to where he brushed it from because the abdominal and diaphragm muscle is in the way. These are small things really. He does operate the tools correctly and he does one interesting quirky thing. He uses a probe to lever things out of the way to remove an organ. Looks like an human gall bladder but some have said in.the comments it's a heart. Well if it follows oceanic biology it could be one of several. no idea. But the way henused that probe was correct. Its a subtle action but unless you'd seen it before you wouldn't miss it if he didn't do it. It's an unnecessary action for a fake film so unless you do it professionally and he did it without thinking. I only caught it because I thought he was using a digital thermometer ro gauge temperature of a liver like organ which is how we assess time of death. But then I realised they didn't have them then if the film age uis correct which I doubt. The forth was on a small skeleton in a private collection. There is a whole documentary on that. There is the alien that was killed by some Mexicans. Set on fire and tortured. That's online with I believe photos. It's been a while. Famously we have: https://youtu.be/xpRleGX2Gxg I think fake but pffff lol who knows these days. Years ago there was a survivor of Roswell that was leaked. They held it at some secret base and gave it a nick name. It's been years so I can't remember what they called it. It was an acronym like ALF or CHAD. Anyway they allegedly had that alive for years. Then there is the undertakers son from Roswell. His testimony is the most compelling and is still online. Not sure of this was Stanon Freidmans interview with him. Anyway this isntthe only witnesses testimony out there. It's the only one regarding the Roswell bodies left I think. There used to be one from the USAF who accounpanied the bodies to Right Patternson. He couldn't resist looking in the crate. Favid Grusch is gonna be much more specific and he alludes to Roswell but in the clips he oddly doesn't name it directly. anyway - undertakers son. Enjoy. https://youtu.be/_DA-g94Ro1Ialso I forgot James Fox has just done a film regarding an Alien downnin Brazil. You can hear him speak about it on Spotify on the Joe Rogan podcast series. He had heard about it previously but passed it off as fake. That was until Stepehen Speilberg suggested he look into that seriously. And Speilberg was friends with Blue Book scientific advisor Allen Hynek. So when SS suggested he look into that he did. Quite interesting.
302
« on: June 10, 2023, 04:54 »
I don't think there are any UFOs on earth. All this media hype is done to distract people from earthly problems and crises.
This time it's quite a bit more than hype. Several things have been happening and this isn't being pushed by the media.
So, we can say one thing for sure, a UFO appeared on the territory of the United States. And this is good news, because. secret technologies fell into the hands of the Pentagon. It would be much worse if a UFO was found on the territory of Russia or China.
I'm also interested in weapons. What do humanoids have there - blasters, laser guns or something else abruptly. Aliens will strengthen the US army! 
Well having just read an updated timeline, mine above is rough in places and wrong in others but the conclusion appears correct. It seems that sources are falling over them selves to get the story out. It seems very orchestrated to force hands. This is allegedly what sources have leaked and David is going to be more specific about. In bold is direct cut and paste from Michael Shellenbergers birdie noise feed where he has collated the various statements as well as information from various sources. There are other places to get this from but he's put it together in fair chunks. "The Pentagon says there's no credible evidence of alien spacecraft, but several military and intelligence contractors with inside information say there is. What's more, these insiders say, U.S. military and intelligence agencies are refusing to provide the evidence to Congress.
Military and intelligence agencies are withholding evidence from Congress, sources say
In April, the director of the Pentagons new program for studying UFOs said he had seen no evidence of alien Show more
But while Grusch has not shared written evidence in an unclassified way, he did provide classified intelligence reports, emails, and other documents to Thomas A. Monheim, the Intelligence Community Inspector General, as the law allows.
As for photographs, the Defense Department prohibited Grusch from sharing any, as the letter from the DoD below shows.
And now, multiple sources close to the matter have come forward to tell Public that Gruschs core claims are accurate. The individuals are all either high-ranking intelligence officials, former intelligence officials, or individuals who we could verify were involved in U.S. government UAP efforts for three or more decades each. Two of them have testified, including as recently as last year, to both AARO and Congress.
The individuals said they had seen or been presented with credible and verifiable evidence that the U.S. government, and U.S. military contractors, possess at least 12 or more alien space crafts, some of which they shared with AARO, which AARO has refused to provide to Congress. The reason AARO has not discovered any verifiable information, they said, is because it does have the authority to verify it and may not want to verify it.
The sources all expressed anger and frustration at the Pentagons denial of the existence of nonhuman craft and materials. The denials coming out of Susan Gough and the Pentagon are specifically chosen to use AARO as the source of information when Grusch has already addressed that AARO didnt have access. And so, of course, they didnt discover anything.
Said another individual, The AARO response is typical because they are not doing any investigation of the testimony theyve been given. Kirkpatrick has not been reporting properly to the congressional committees.
Indeed, Grusch took a whistleblower complaint to the ICIG precisely because, he says, the military and intelligence community was withholding information from AARO and from Congress. It was only after becoming a whistleblower that Congress invited Grusch to give closed-door testimony in a secure information facility.
Karl Nell, a retired Army Colonel who worked with Grusch on the UAP Task Force, which preceded the creation of AARO, told The Debrief, as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence.
Some of the same sources who shared information with Grusch, as well as others, spoke to Public about retrieved spacecraft that they say is in the possession of the U.S. government. I know of at least 12-15 craft, said one person, who said they shared the information with AARO and Congress. Every five years, we get one or two recovered for one reason or another, from either a landing or that we catch, or they just crash.
A different contractor said, There were at least four morphologies, different structures. Six were in good shape; six were not in good shape. There were cases where the craft landed, and the occupants left the craft unoccupied. There have been high-level people, including generals, who have placed their hand on the craft, and I would have no reason to disbelieve them.
One source described having seen three kinds of craft, including one shaped like a triangle and another that looked like a chopped up helicopter, with the front bubble of a Huey helicopter, with the plastic windows, or more like a deep sea submarine, with a thick piece of glass bubble shaped, and where the tail rudder should have been, it was a black, egg-shaped pancake, and instead of landing gear it had upside-down rams horns that went from the top to the bottom and rested on the ends of the horns.
The sources said they felt compelled to speak out publicly to validate Gruschs claims but did not want their names used. We have non-disclosure agreements or secrecy agreements that we are supposed to take to the grave, said one person. Two of the three sources declined to answer certain questions, even off the record, out of concern for their safety and continued access to information.
I briefed the Senate intelligence committee, the Senate Armed Services Committee, and ARRO, and so that information is out there, the person said. What Grusch did was the first giant step to get the information out.
The sources said that the Pentagon and military contractors keep the nonhuman spacecraft in different locations, including Area 51 in Nevada, and that they move the craft around to different facilities, both military bases and contractor facilities, for research.
The sources differed on whether the U.S. was able to operate them. As far as I know, we are not able to operate them, said one person, who said they were last briefed on the crashed craft five years ago. There are people who say we have reverse-engineered them and are flying them. I never found any support for that. And found a lot of support for saying we cant figure it out. If we do, it would be in some program at a higher security level.
Others said that the U.S. has been able to fly at least one of the retrieved craft. Some of the tech is very cutting-edge, said a source, and they have to travel to places like Italy, Belgium, and Indonesia to do flight testing. Its worldwide. Some of our allies know about the programs. The clandestine places that they work out of have grown larger.
The sources said they suspected that the Chinese and Russians had also retrieved craft, but they did not know for certain.
303
« on: June 10, 2023, 03:44 »
I don't think there are any UFOs on earth. All this media hype is done to distract people from earthly problems and crises.
This time it's quite a bit more than hype. Several things have been happening and this isn't being pushed by the media. Grusch has wrong footed the media quite badly. He's also bypassed AARO which was odd considering he worked within its predecessor ATTIP. This week a few things have come to light. When he stepped foreward this was the culmination of events that began in April/May. Kean Couktard and one other were thrown into the story and had to run around assessing his credentials. Many of their long standing sources within the DOD stepped forward to reassure them and vouch for Grusch in the strongest terms. After a few feelers were put out the New York Post were supportive but wanted much more time to do much more research into Grusch. Keane was put under pressure to move things along faster than the NYP were happy with so they fell by the wayside. Newsnation stepped foreward and did their own research with their sources and concluded he was legitimate. Due to the nature of the information they laid on security for David and filmed the interview in a hanger. 7 hours of it over 2 sessions. It appears that although ARRO were informed and given the documents and footage, reports and testimony, they refused to pass it to congress. They have given the reason that because the above are clearly so top-secret and shocking they are refusing because they are sure that if they do there will be significant breaches of top secret and above clearances. They don't want to risk it so they've told congress they can't have it. This appears to be being pushed by senior elements in the DOD. Grusch used congresses whistle blower amnesty on UAP reporting to bypass ARRO and subsequent legal issues but before he did he completed the security proformas which required him to state what he planned to make public. They allowed him to speak about what he has done because had they refused a refusal triggers congressional involvement as overseer. Technically he's a spook. So he's used the system to win. But he's been backed up by the Inspector General of Inteligence who categorised his proof and testimony as credible and urgent after he spent 11 hours giving testimony to various intelligence panels. Then yesturday NASA hurriedly came foreward to say that they have assessed that so far that they need access to as much data as possible that can be supplied ro them and that they will need specialised equipment and access to sensor equipment to be able to monitor UAP going foreward to be able to reach any future conclusions. Various senators are coming foreward to state they want this investigated and there are also Senate hearings being scheduled to do this. It looks like Gruschs claims and subsequent credibility support from within the inteligence top tier and from elsewhere have caused a bun fight for leadership of any organisation that arises from this going foreward. It seems obvious that AARO are being sidelined by the senate for some reason.
304
« on: June 10, 2023, 02:08 »
There are 3 potential answers.
They are all A.I. They are all.not A.I. or there is a mixture.
It would be pointless to ask of they were all a.i.
Dropping to 2 answers. Instinctively I guess they all are but in the interest of actually leaving my mind to see if it suspects any images of being fake beyond being photoshopped to death with various filters which are probably a.i. as well
1- AI shadows aren't realistic.
2- AI foreground light is false
3- AI man's weight distribution looks wrong. Bag looks wrong.
4- Reality / AI both She looks right but the Bokeh looks jelly like.
5- AI looks like a computer game
6- Reality
7- Reality
8- AI
9- AI
10- Reality
11- AI hahahaha his eyes are wrong and so are his fingers LOL. Badly wrong.
12- AI light on ball looks wrong
13- AI face looks fake. Looks squeezed. Her expression isn't correct.
14- AI
15- Reality
16- Reality
17- AI
18- AI
19- AI
20- Reality
21- Reality
Fascinating. Some just felt fake or flat. LOL well this will be interesting. Thanks for doing this.
305
« on: June 10, 2023, 00:05 »
Even cats are extremely curious of their surroundings and always want "to boldly go where no cat has gone before".
Mainly to find other life, hunt it and kill it! Let's hope any possible aliens don't have the same instincts as cats. I guess there have been a few movies made about something like that ...
Stephen Hawking stated the same thing. And recently Michio Kaku has said that while he believes life is unquestionably "out there", he doesn't think we should announce our presence so readily. Until we know what their purpose or intention is. Assuming 'they' even register us in the same way we observe other life it doesn't make much sense to attack. If they exist, and if their technological abilities are as others have observed and suggest, conflict would be a counterproductive action. The example of us being ants to another species and nothing but a curiosity is often given. But the recent experiences that many military and civilians have had is more reminiscent of them being like bees. Travelling from here to there and ocassionaly interacting for a few minutes before carrying on about their business. Much like a honey bee flies round us for a few seconds and then flies off. Only attacking if we become a perceived threat. Any crashed craft or occupants that we might recover aren't rescued like we might. Just left like a weak bee. Grusch has alluded to this when he sates that the alleged craft they have are a result of mechanical failure, being shot down or apparently abandoned. That is much more in keeping with the behaviour of a hive. Or that it is a resource which means little financially. We shall perhaps find out. One thing is conspicuous by its absence and that is Robert Bigelows opinion. There hasn't been one and that has its own implications.
306
« on: June 09, 2023, 08:22 »
David Grusch speaks exclusively on Newsnation
Time : 9pm Eastern Time Sunday 11th June
GMT : 2 am 12th June
Hour long interview followed by an hour long analysis.
www.joinnn.com
Claims and theories without proof.
Proof given to Inteligence Inspector General who categorised it as credible and urgent. You left that one out 
307
« on: June 09, 2023, 01:10 »
David Grusch speaks exclusively on Newsnation Time : 9pm Eastern Time Sunday 11th June
GMT : 2 am 12th JuneHour long interview followed by an hour long analysis. www.joinnn.com
308
« on: June 08, 2023, 02:54 »
Contributors from EU countries are pissed off because they get their payment in US Dollar. They loose about 10 Percent of their income. Holy crap.
Whilst forcing payment for Adobe products in local currency.
That's the part that really irritates.
That isn't just Adobe. Camera equipment too. They just change the currency icon and leave the numbers.
309
« on: June 08, 2023, 02:32 »
The Mandela Effect is an observed phenomenon in which a large segment of the population misremembers a significant event or shares a memory of an event that did not actually occur
Nelson Mandela, who this theory is named after, died in 2013. However, countless people distinctly remember him dying in prison in the 1980s. I do not personally but he was a passing event I barely remember. Maybe those closer to the event have a stronger or more solid memory which resist the ripple.
for example ...
"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, ... apparently incorrect. I can see her say it.
Sex in the City was factually Sex and the City.
Febreeze spray is actually and has always been febreze.
The monopoly man never had a monocle 🧐
Sketchers shoes didn't have a t. Skechers is has always been.
Kellogs Fruit Loops never existed and has always been Froot Loops.
Pikachu's tail ... is all yellow and doesn't have a black tip.
Cheese itz crackers was actually Cheese it. Makes sense?
Double Stuff Oreos .... nope ... double stuf. one f.
C3PO of star wars isn't gold. Most of him is but not his right leg from the knee down. Which is silver.
Cinderellas Castle in Disneyland. Afraid not. That's Disney world. The castle in Disneyland is sleeping beauties.
"Play it again Sam" in Casablanca ... is never uttered. The words are "Play it once, Sam. For old times' sake.". I personally can see Humphrey Bogart saying it. I can see him saying it angrily whilst holding a cigarette like a pencil. It wasn't even him saying it 😳. I'm not the only one.
Have a think where New Zealand is in relation to Australia. North East? North West. In fact South East. Its true.
Loads more out there.
Maybe they make a slight change over time. Like tye one between my mother and I last week.
People in the UK will remember Dime Bar ... as an insult by Harry Enfield. After the chocolate bar. In fact it's Daim Bar. They aren't called Dime Bars. Never have been.
Relax they were lol. They did change their name ro Daim Bar though. in ... 2005 😳😳😳 wtaf.
310
« on: June 08, 2023, 01:53 »
I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.
I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?
That is always the question Seth Showstak throws out there. All the universe and they choose here. I think you could look at it from several angles. Survival. We may be less developed in every way but we may have unique physiology which has promising benefits for other races who's bodies suffer with various medical issues. Like we use slugs in make up or beetles in frosting. We could be a resource. Cattle. We could be a conservation project. 'They' could actually be us. Travelling foreward in time is easy and happens. Travelling back is the issue. In time travel the old understanding was this: Go back kill Hitler and save 13 million Jews. That figure was always a standard. However did he interact with certain organisations and people and create certain things that need to happen in order that as the changes take place and ripple foreward ... we don't make matters worse and more die. The current thinking is we go back, kill Hitler and now we create two time lines. One without and the original continues on its path. But what if the first theory was actually correct. Because 13 million Jews didn't die. 6 million did. Now this is passed off as history being examined very carefully and records being examined and and an extreme amount of work done to find the exact figure. But that was 8 million out. It is historically correct now allegedly. But what if it isn't. What if it was 13 million. What if we have managed to unlock time travel. And because Hitler managed to interact so much and have so much influence on our world today he couldn't safely be killed. But a soldier who passed on orders could. And whilst history has almost happened in the same way, that soldiers death prevented a chemical order arriving in time and it saved 8 million. How much would you need to actually change to save 8 million. Go back, break a machine that makes chemicals. Kill a soldier who sent the orders. Kill a scientist that found a chemical compound that created the gas. If this is true and we have then it would need to be tested extensively. So go back to the middle of nowhere and chop down a tree and watch that action ripple foreqard. Eventually you'll have to upscale your experiments. What better than to alter something subtle. Something already made up. A movie script. A story book. A poster or painting. Once you do that you can write an article and give it a proper medical psychological name in psychology books. Call it the Mandela effect. And then monitor everyone's comments to observe how these changes are experienced. Most won't have seen the film and won't remember the past script. Those that have swear he said a certain thing but the facts say otherwise. Even if you rememeber it for a fact going a certain way and you took a photo of a poster years ago and it's in your loft. You'll retrieve it and it too will change as the changes ripple foreward. Our memories however are chemically stored and perhaps those chemicals are slow to react to the change in reality. So the memory is strong and then becomes faded, ethereal, and finally you just let it go and forget about it. Maybe some people's physiology can't change. It's locked in and nothing can change it. They suffer a mental sheer or episode or maybe develope dementia because their brains can't chemically change that memory. So they become scared and shout and fight .... Maybe the aliens aren't here because we have anything they want. Maybe they are here because of what we've discovered. Whatever the recent data would suggest they concentrate their attention around the military areas which makes sense but I believe is a false data set. The military are looking more with more gear so they see them more. Like a person who buys a make of car suddenly sees how many there are on the road. Nothing changed other than awareness. We shall apparently fins out more on Sunday. Not sure of the time. They've created a wen address to view it which says it isn't watchable in Europe due to gdpr. But it'll be on utube hopefully. For non Europe watch it here www.joinnn.com
311
« on: June 07, 2023, 14:23 »
https://youtu.be/1gCYSsvYQPYQuick news bite of Ryan Graves a few hours ago. He has also given testimony under oath and was the first serving pilot to do so.
312
« on: June 07, 2023, 12:05 »
Debrief article here. At Gruschs request he wanted it desceminated in written articles first and then release the Ross Coultard interview in a few days ... https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/
former US intelligence official David Grasch, who left the Defense Department in April after a 14-year career, said the US government has complete and partially damaged vehicles of extraterrestrial origin in stock. According to him, this information is being hidden from the US Congress, but he passed this secret data to the US Parliament. After that, he came under pressure from US government officials.
Yeah. So in the latter part of career he was tasked to work within or maybe in charge of the UAP investigative task force. If it was AATIP they were given 22 million dollars over 5 years to go through any and all UAP reports. They were underfunded and understaffed. Yet they allegedly revealed "stuff that would blow your mind" but (as NASA have) they discovered that much of the data was gathered by classified processes and equipment. Which in turn classified the reports and any and all footage. Now to put that I to context NASA - we are gonna science the cr@p out of this ... their budget for investigating UFOs is up to ... $100,000.00 ... no I didn't miss a zero. That's their budget for this. Unless they get given more. That's it Chris Mellon at some point leaked the Go Fast, gimble and Tic Tac videos to force a conversation. This almost failed. The tipping point I've discovered was the Chinese spy balloons. People were filming them from their back gardens but the DOD said they had no evidence they existed. So an investigation revealed that the DOD had lowered the sensitivity of their advanced radar systems. The Whitehouse intervened and the sensitivity was suddenly raised. The balloons appeared and several were shot down. That said only one was identified as a balloon. It had the equivalent of 3 buses in payload dangling beneath it. Another "balloon" was shot down over Alaska. Local trappers are being interviewed because they know all the tracks and all the locations and what's frozen and not. And none of them apparently saw any military coming to get a balloon. But when they turned tye sensitivity of their radar up - suddenly these UAP began registering. On the Nimitz they had the same experience. They could detect them. So they recalibrate all their gear ro get rid of the anomalous readings. It had the opposite effect. They showed up more. In April David left the government and filed a whistleblower report because as Chris Mellon discovered ... these reports are examined and classified as known or unknown. Mellon approached the AARO team and members of Congress and they hadn't even been given Tic Tack etc because when the file is created it gets passes around various departments that need to see it. Deliberately one department was failing to pass the files on. In some cases files that were created were still sat in this department from 10 years previously. Grusch filed his whistleblower report but refused to give his findings to AARO and insisted that he meet with Congress personally because he alluded to the fact that he lacked confidence in AARO and their honesty. And he states that there has been a deliberate misinformation campaign to prevent any information of significance reaching Congress. His report was examined and investigated for its validity by the Senate Inteligence Committee and House Committee and he gave testimony under oath in classified hearings lasting for over 11 hours to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Committee. After which they categorised his evidence as "Urgent and Credible"Further more he isn't the only one. Because David Grusch has never witnessed a UFO or touched a UFO. So he went and found the reports. The photos. The footage. And he also found the programmes names of the alleged programmes that reverse engineer craft and the other programmes. And after him there are people within these programmes waiting to come foreward to give evidence themselves. And that isn't information coming from him. That's them speaking to someone else waiting to see if DG gets anywhere. Whatever happens now it will only get bigger. From what I've heard from those reporting on it ... there is a mad rush to slow this down or stop it. But there are too many high ranking ex officials who know all the details and this is why he felt confident in coming right out. We'll see.
314
« on: June 05, 2023, 13:17 »
... And I have deferred to their knowledge. Because they are extremely credible witnesses, they were there.
as the Innocence project & many other studies have shown, eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable
Totally agree. However we increase its accuracy if there are certain criteria. 1. Daylight. 2. Instrument co-oberation. 3. Multiple witnesses. 4. Repeated sightings. 5. Trained observers. This has a specific definition. 6. Witness has a lot to lose. David Fravor was sent to investigate that craft by his superiors based on repeated radar and other sensor data over a prolonged time. He wasn't the only witness. He wasn't the only witness on that day. He wasn't the only witness in that group and he wasn't the only witness over a prolonged period of time. It was on radar. On film. Visually sighted repeatedly my numerous trained observers with a lit to lose in credibility. This is enough evidence to prove a craft of unknown origin was flying repeatedly with other craft over a prolonged period of time. It isnt a delusion to trust that data. It is incredibly disgusting to toss it aside. And no one here is qualified to call those officers out. no one. Unless they were there and use that gear. Like the 17 million dollar jet they gave a delusional man.
315
« on: June 04, 2023, 14:01 »
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. 
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.
At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.
This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.
But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.
What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you. 
My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.
A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.
In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.
And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.
Not me but I agree with some of the things you state. The repeatable crap is .. but I'll deal with that later.
So what's important here is your claim about radar readings.
Please explain more and also can you please give your qualifications in radar operation specifically of that used on the Nimitz so that the explanation is in context and your skepticism has a solid foundation. Thanks in advance.
What are your qualifications as an air force pilot, the cameras used on navy jets or space travel. Just so I know you have the experience in context and education to know more about aliens and ufos and the secret government. Do you work for the CIA or FBI?
1. Pilot - none 2.Cameras specified- none 3. CIA or FBI credentials- none More than happy to answer. Now ... appreciate the question ... but I'm wondering why. I'm not making the claims if that is why. I am repeating the information stated by the various military personnel involved and their superiors and those who's role it was to deal with the incidents mentioned regarding the military and equipment. I believe I have kept to within what a non involved/trained person could other than what is public record. And I have deferred to their knowledge. Because they are extremely credible witnesses, they were there.
316
« on: June 03, 2023, 15:37 »
...
The double-slit experiment is probably the most famous experiment in quantum physics. And maybe the most puzzling one in the history of mankind so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ
In a nutshell, the act of observation/measurement of the experiment changes the result. Whatever can happen, does happen - the particle is in multiple places at the same time. Until you try to observe it. Before observation, particles have no defined properties. They are kind of "rendered" only when observed or measured. In other words, the reality is super-weird and super-crazy, until you try to observe what exactly is going on - then it immediately changes and behaves as our intuition would tell us.
...
And for what it's worth, idealism has no issues with the double-slit experiment or quantum entanglement. It is only problematic within the materialist paradigm.
thanks for the detailed explanation. while the double-slit phenomenon was shown more than 50 years ago (as part of my quantum mechanics course, eg) , the questioning of reality is a fascinating discussion that's unfolding as we learn more about consciousness, free will, etc (or on a different level, invoking the 2nd law of thermodynamics to 'prove' the need for a creator)
unfortunately, well documented effects on the quantum level are often erroneously extrapolated to the macro level - eg , to the claim that ANY scientific experiment must be distorted by the scientist observing it & therefore invalid.
but and while Schrodinger's quantum entanglement is often used to propose instantaneous travel over long distances, quantum entanglement has yielded results in the Newtonian world -- a layman's discussion appeared in Scientific American after the 2022 Nobel prize was awarded based on QE research .
but "The compulsion to interpret quantum physics concepts as prescriptions for physical reality derives from the unfortunate way we traditionally teach physics."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-entanglement-isnt-all-that-spooky-after-all1/
and then there's the question of bird migration:
"When you next see a small songbird, pause for a moment to consider that it might recently have flown thousands of kilometers, navigating with great skill using a brain weighing no more than a gram. The fact that quantum spin dynamics may have played a crucial part in its journey only compounds the awe and wonder with which we should regard these extraordinary creatures."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-birds-use-quantum-effects-to-navigate/
and
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/birds-quantum-entanglement/
Do you genuinely believe in a creator 🤔
317
« on: June 03, 2023, 04:35 »
Anyway just for fun here is what appears to be a crashed UFO surrounded by Russian soldiers on the edge of a woodland.  The story regarding this photo is fascinating but it has been debunked of course. Movie, prank, CGI the stories are extensive I'll save you the time. This has been around for quite a long time. Officially it has been stated that this was an exercise. Training soldiers in what needs to be done if a UFO crashes. Simple as that. It's also plausable. But the question that isn't asked is why. Why if they don't exist, does a military need to be trained. That is the single most important question. Exercises are designed for real events that may occur based on past events. Literally the only reason you practice. So this is interesting for that reason. If only there were more photos. Or footage ... https://youtu.be/iKMwAsoMlZMNow to muddy the waters further. This photo and footage are from 1969. Later in the 80s this footage and an acoumpaniying video were aired. The other footage was of an alien autopsy allegedly recovered from this woodland craft. Here is that footage. It isnt the usual one that was a hoax. This is extremely good and the detail is incredible. There is however a serious issue. When the cut is made on the abdomen take note of how the skin flap is moved. Anyone who has butchered meat will call BS on this. Connective tissue must be attached to bone and tagged to skin. It's essential for ribs and bone to function. So it's your choice. Do you call BS on the body or do you explain that away as how tissue and bone interact in alien physiology when it spends extended periods in a weightless environment. Like cuttlefish. Up to you 😊 https://youtu.be/vQ0E8-f6rBUThere are also a few other things wrong with the claim the videos are connected. I'll leave those for now.
318
« on: June 03, 2023, 03:55 »
author=Uncle Pete link=topic=37704.msg587567#msg587567 date=1685745069]
Slim picking and generalizations? How many UFOs are real and how many are explained and errors in observation. That's a tough question, I have the answer from history, bluebook and even the people who are supporting the aliens stories. How many are explained and how many are possible and how many are firmly = unexplained.
Unfortunately you don't have the answer from history Peter that is a falsehood yet again. At this point it is just wilful and deliberate on your part. I can debate with a skeptic but you cannot debate lies. You hold up bluebook (created by the military) which discarded almost all UFO reports as rubbish and yet refuse ro accept military acknowledgment and testimony. Bluebook was itself a deliberate work of fiction. The scientific head of bluebook himself has historically rubbished it. Don't take it from me. Take it from him - https://youtu.be/6YYkjYAxT44Dr J Allen Hynek. Scientific advisor to the government across various projects from 1947 to 1969. Astronomer and Astrophysicist. Hynek acted as scientific advisor to UFO studies undertaken by the U.S. Air Force under three projects: Project Sign (19471949) Project Grudge (19491951) Project Blue Book (19521969) For any one else the description of that video contains a tonne of links digging far deeper into the phenomena and its implications. Currently the US government are again, under project AARO, invetigating UAP. The preponderance of data and professional observers have caused a shift to try and identify what is going on. But already there is a serious problem. Sean Kirpatrick who is heading up this investigation (don't worry he is high, high up) has delivered his first assembly. Using two teams of experts not named he has for a year been investigating. But already it has a whiff of the blue book farce cause severe backlash against Congress from all those military personnel involved. And this time, duty and orders aren't going to stop these witnesses from speaking out. The deal from Congress "You come foreward and tell us via the reporting system of any and all experiences. Who was involved. What happened. Where it was. When. Doesn't matter if you are the president now your report will be held in complete confidence. Any non disclosure agreement you were forced to sign is rendered invalid and unlawful. It is now your lawful duty to report what you saw. No matter who tells you otherwise. Anyone who is standing in the way of this investigation will be dealt with. Very strong words. And as such Sean Kirpatricks AARO have had a deluge of reports. Around 600 are active and ongoing. In a year. They've processed and rubbished I think around 300. How they do this. Two teams. One is concentrating on any national security implications. If the details of the experience could be deemed a danger to national security. The other team looks at it another way more broadly. After a report is submitted both teams get a copy. Independently they assess the footage /account of witness/instrument data. Then each team submits its report. The reports are examined. If they agree it gets moved on for further study. If they disagree it gets re-examined to resolve the disagreement. On the face of it a fair stab at it. But there is a serious failing. If they can't resolve the issue ... Kirkpatrick decides. One man. Further their role isn't just recent UAP. It is past UAP. They are going to catalogue all the reports and curate them. This should be a good thing. But the danger is that when a small group have access to all data they could categorise unilaterally large swathes of data as not worthy. When that happens it gets filed in the dustbin. Never to be seen again. This has historically happened with any and all files from Rosswell. Allegedly. The files were removed and destroyed after it was deemed a weather balloon. After one year Kirkpatrick delivered his report. It was actually tragic and laughable and missing significant data that is in the public domain and acknowledged as fact by the military. He declared that there were " No maritime UAP reports" So how did he not have tic tac, gimble, go fast and others because we can get that stuff in seconds. That's all the footage there is allegedly. Hours of radar and cockpit instrument data also. 🤷 And people are pissed. Not the public. People in Congress are calling BS. Military personnel are calling BS. Kirkpatrick it is rumoured may be replaced. And now for whatever reason NASA have waded in and created their own team. And Kirkpatrick has allowed one of their team to sit on his panel. Which is a what moment. Further to this the military data have two tears. Stuff Congress can discuss with Kirkpatrick in the open hearings. And stuff they can't. So far 4 cases have been discussed openly for us ... out of 300 and Kirkpatricks teams have debunked 2 of those. The latest they explained away as sensor wobble and planes in flight at night. I urge you to look at that video as he explains it 🤣. Jesus I don't know how anyone could claim that is planes. 3 dots on a screen moving in unison. what ... its just dots and clearly it looks fake. But planes apparently. But then I don't have the rest of the data his team had. Never the less he is apparently on very shakey ground. Hopefully this won't be another Blue Book. Even those involved in it shun it. But it suits the septics. Lazy ... don't bother looking at the evidence surrounding it's creation. Willfully ignore the people involved and in charge of it rubbishing it. The only explanation is that they are religious zealots or suffer some other delusion.
319
« on: June 03, 2023, 02:02 »
Faeries, ghosts, elves, and the like. Imaginary monsters, exobiology, mostly rubbish.
I'm afraid that your, and for that matter, our (mainstream) understanding of the wider reality is much closer to "mostly rubbish" than to the truth. Just try to understand, for example, the implications of the double-slit experiment and it should destroy your assumptions about the reality and what is really going on.
I'll have to find that experiment I haven't read or seen anything. Sounds interesting and I can't comment until I have more than a name of some experiment? I don't know what it's supposed to show or how it was run or who was behind it.
Do you mean the quantum eraser? I'll try to see what it's all about.
I'll save you the effort of trusting ... its a well known proven observable experiment that has no explanation. You can trust that it does it. No one has managed to explain why it does it. The basics are as explained - merely witnessing the experiment changes the outcome. Even if you try and trick it. If it is witnessed by even a detector- the outcome goes one way. When it isnt witnessed/observed/recorded it goes another. What it means is that particles when witnessed/observed/recorded behave in a certain way and only in that way. Which means observation influences the world around us to behave differently. 🤔
320
« on: June 02, 2023, 15:02 »
Oh and Peter ... "Mercury is no longer used for dentistry, or quack cures. "It wasnt until the mid-20th century that mercury compounds finally fell out of favour, thanks to a solid understanding that heavy metal toxicity was actually, you know, bad." " from the FDA website .... Dental amalgam is a dental filling material used to fill cavities caused by tooth decay. Dental amalgam is a mixture of metals, consisting of liquid (elemental) mercury and a powdered alloy composed of silver, tin, and copper. Approximately half (50%) of dental amalgam is elemental mercury by weight. The chemical properties of elemental mercury allow it to react with and bind together the silver/copper/tin alloy particles to form an amalgam." https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/dental-devices/dental-amalgam-fillings
321
« on: June 02, 2023, 14:33 »
Yes it's difficult to be skeptical of extreme claims and as everyone reading this thread can see, it's futile to try to give reasonable solutions when the replies will be emotional and one sided. I understand that my being a skeptic is like attacking someones religion, it's their personal beliefs. Same with politics now. There's no way to argue logical and reasonable points, because the other people only see that they are being personally attack, and don't see that what I'm trying to point out is the facts are flawed. That is not personal, it's just about facts, data information, history and that nasty word... REALITY.
Just one:
Elemental and methylmercury are toxic to the central and peripheral nervous systems. The inhalation of mercury vapour can produce harmful effects on the nervous, digestive and immune systems, lungs and kidneys, and may be fatal. The inorganic salts of mercury are corrosive to the skin, eyes and gastrointestinal tract, and may induce kidney toxicity if ingested.
Neurological and behavioural disorders may be observed after inhalation, ingestion or dermal exposure of different mercury compounds. Symptoms include tremors, insomnia, memory loss, neuromuscular effects, headaches and cognitive and motor dysfunction. Mild, subclinical signs of central nervous system toxicity can be seen in workers exposed to an elemental mercury level in the air of 20 μg/m3 or more for several years. Kidney effects have been reported, ranging from increased protein in the urine to kidney failure.
https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/10/22/mercury-was-considered-a-cure-until-it-killed-you.html
Mercury is no longer used for dentistry, or quack cures. "It wasnt until the mid-20th century that mercury compounds finally fell out of favour, thanks to a solid understanding that heavy metal toxicity was actually, you know, bad."
Ancient wisdom is more often wrong, than the few cases where someone verified and tested, scientifically and found that some tribal or folk belief that is actually quite useful and works.
Most home remedies or natural therapies, though, havent been put through the same rigorous clinical testing you expect from pharmaceutical medications. Some pharmaceutical medicines are synthetic versions of ancient herbs or plants that have been found to be effective. This is done by rigorous testing, not a friend of a friend who knows someone who says, some herbal remedy is good for your.
The best people to investigate unexplained phenomena, just like the best people to research medicine, are people who do research and keep records and used scientific method. Not people who spread rumors, myths and folk beliefs, because it's their personal belief. UFO and aliens believers have a personal agenda and inner motivation for their conclusions. Real science derives answers from investigation and research, not folk beliefs.
So that's a no then we can't expect anything valid from you regarding your claim that its all fake. I'm not sure who you are referring to when you state beinga skeptic is like attacking someone's religion. Skeptics aren't professional lol. They just are. They may have a profession. But disbelief in UFOs, whilst moronic, isn't offensive. What is offensive is typing a wall of conjecture without providing any proof. I posted a wall of video taken by the military, analysed by their experts (who are more qualified than you on every level) to assess validity and this in turn led to your governmment creating ... ANOTHER task force. AARO ... The fourth iteration the first being Blue Book which was a hoax. I'm not sure what other evidence you need that UAP exist but I did ask you. You didn't answer that one either. In fact the only closed minded people here are the skeptics who deny the validity of any authoritative source over their own opinion. Which doesn't effect me in any way. This thread was for uploading any footage that any may have taken. It became your punching bag and you played tag with ya chum. It didn't matter to me. Discussion about the possible causes or origins of UAP is campfire off topic worthy particularly as ex high ranking members of the government and military have now taken the reigns. So yeah have at it. What I would say is don't put emotions and opinions in my mouth. You don't know me, my motivation or my opinions at all. You do however know that I'm able to hold up examples. Unlike you who relies solely on slim pickings and generalisations.
322
« on: June 02, 2023, 09:46 »
...and they have for some reason left 0.01 cent in there 🤔 wierd. ....
I think this is a result of royalty amounts including fractions of a cent.
As an example, if your balance shows as $52.31 you may actually have a balance of $52.3144. You request payment, and as they can't pay you the fractions of a cent, you receive $52.31 and the remaining balance is shown as $0.01.
If there's any fraction of a cent left, your balance shows as one cent (I know rounding rules would operate differently). I've seen that in the past too.
If you want to know the real story you could write to contributor support
Thank you for that explanation Jo makes perfect sense. Thanks also Matt for confirming.
323
« on: June 01, 2023, 12:56 »
Try this, science with Peer Review. Oh wait, you already have your mind made up that real science is all bought and paid for or biased. While unsubstantiated rumors, conjecture and no review, everything gets in, is the real basis for UAP research.
Since submitting the papers for peer review, the Galileo Projects international and cross-institutional team has been busy testing and calibrating the many sensors and tools developed for this unique astronomical effort. Having field-tested the equipment even through the extreme weather of a New England winter, the project is now looking to leverage what it learned in phase 1 and bring additional locations online across the United States. Galileo Project researchers are simultaneously preparing for an upcoming expedition to collect remnants of the first documented interstellar meteor, and developing software to analyze data recorded both by field instruments as well as by Earth-observing satellites.
All Galileo Project papers are freely available to the public with Open Access at the Journal of Astronomical Instrumentations website, https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscinet/jai. A list of all published papers is available in the Publications section of the Galileo Project website, at https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/publications.
https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/news/galileo-project-publishes-first-peer-reviewed-scientific-papers-jai
Unfortunately Peter this is where we are. Left with what people have decided is the only credible evidence which is that given by as credible witnesses as you. an get. Scientist aren't credible unfortunately because like any for hire group you don't see the BS you only see bought and paid for data. When it gets peer reviewed again the BS falls by the wayside but does so because of money or agendas.
Yeah leeches and potatoes. Except you ignore the other 98% that pure trash science or fraud and gets exposed. How about perpetual motion machines? Powering your car by adding a water inserted to your carburetor. Or aliens flying from outer space, just to look up our butts?
The reason that leeches are used now for some procedures, is they have been tested and proven to work. I can't say about burns and potatoes. Many old word medical advice is actually dangerous, people used to think that drinking mercury would cure them of diseases.
Claims have to be studied and proven. It's the responsibility of the person making the claim to prove it's true, not the backwards denial that says "Prove it's not true"
Faeries, ghosts, elves, and the like. Imaginary monsters, exobiology, mostly rubbish.
In fact there's more hard evidence that Santa Claus is real, based on belief and personal observations.
Right. But as we were talking in the context of UAP that's where my comments were aimed. Not science generally. Scientists investigating UAP. This shower has already proved my point because theybalways turn to astronomy scientists to explain away something the size of a tanker 50 fee above a witness. For example Peter. Mercury... totally works. Attacks the nervous system too and is cumulative . Totally works and still does Peter ... For more than 3,000 years, mercury and its derivatives have been used as anti-parasitic drugs, anti-syphilis, antipruritic, antiseptics, anti-inflammatory drugs, diuretics, dental amalgams, and substitutes. Chemo doesn't target Cancer cells it just targets cells. Hopefully by the time all the cells that are cancerous are dead you have enough to crawl off. What's your point. You keep typing this: Claims have to be studied and proven. It's the responsibility of the person making the claim to prove it's true, not the backwards denial that says "Prove it's not true" and yet the muppets keep running from under the sink cupboard to scream and rant that it's all BS and endlessly throw out utterly unfounded authoritative statements that it's all fake. Well OK Peter your claim is that its fake. Can we now finally have some proof 🤷. I'm not sure what scientific community you've experienced but because I said so isn't usually how it works is it lol. p.s. Peter if you use anything from Mick Wests site I will be handing you your buttocks to hard, your grandkids will feel it
324
« on: June 01, 2023, 10:28 »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12141359/NASAs-UFO-task-force-livestream-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-meeting-TOMORROW-Watch-here.html
NASA to hold historic public meeting about UFOs TOMORROW: Space agency to give first update of its study into unidentified craft in our skies AND oceans - and you can watch it live
That's 4 hours of stuff there thank you. I started watching because it was steamed a few hours ago. Is it selling what it's pushing. No. No it is already confused itself and although slick they've already made morons of themselves. It's a panel of experts in their individual fields of science. Cool. This is what they state they'll be doing... Right off the bat a few minutes in we have this gem "The existing data from eye witness reports are often muddled and cannot provide conclusive evidence that supports UAP recognition and analysis (Short version - the past is the past and we won't be looking at anything previously reported no matter who it cane from)." and ... "Additionally an objects background can complicate the data further and render it unusable due to conventional objects that can mimic or overshadow the phenomena completely such as commercial air craft, military equipment, the weather and ionospheric phenomena like auroras. (Not leaving a lot left ro look at there folks because they don't come in a box) *This lack of high quality data make it !!!!impossible!!!! to draw scientifc conclusions about UAP. (LOL so what are you doing. What is the point of this) So basically this team are gathering to create a method for scientifically analysing and identifying only future UAP data as long as it doesn't involve any of the criteria that would make the data unusable. Has a background. Has a plane in it. Has military equipment in it or could be weather or rainbows and comes from the public because they're muddled. So basically a huge waste of time. There also said this team will not be pouring over grainy film images. Ok so no footage or photos, no eye witness reports no military or classified data because of restrictions only unclassified data that you collect which will become classified and never see the light of day lol. Well 3 hours 45 minutes to go ...
325
« on: June 01, 2023, 03:46 »
Very poor. Reached payout which has been allocated and they have for some reason left 0.01 cent in there 🤔 wierd. And looking through port pic positions there is the same old photo sitting at page 1 ... position 19 I assume due to new content but it will spend ages in the No.1 spot page 1. It has done for over a year. Never sold lol. I wonder how it stays there never selling. And yet similar photos of mine have sold and aren't on page 1. Very very strange. So I'll sit and watch my 0.01 and wonder ....
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