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Messages - Jo Ann Snover

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3051
I don't understand the graphs, but I have been keeping track of the major stock site's alexa rankings (global and US) roughly monthly since March. There's no big falloff in ranking numbers for iStock - it was 462 global on Sept 9th and 471 on October 18th. Its US ranking dropped from 265 to 323. Shutterstock was 197/192 in September and 198/223 in October

Here's the file:

March 4 2014

Site  Global/USA

IS  424 / 252
SS  216 / 194
Thinkstock  5,824 / 1,519
Getty 3,003 / 1,107
Fotolia 528 / (DE) 64
dreamstime 656 / 607
123rf  472 / 551
DepositPhotos 1,317 / 1,060
PhotoDune 2,886 / 2,018
Canstock 3,636 / 2,027
Alamy 16,001 / 12,010

May 28 2014

IS  447 / 270
SS  193 / 199
Thinkstock  4,413 / 1,240
Getty  2,091 / 854
Fotolia  511 / (DE) 67 (FR) 148 (US) 1,188
dreamstime 664 / 629
123rf 659 / 620
DepositPhotos 1,191 / 927
PhotoDune  2,662 / 1,662
Canstock  3,443 / 2,416
Alamy  14,293 / (GB) 1,517 (US) 15,090
DollarPhotoClub  5,086 / 1,700

June 30 2014

IS 450 / 272
SS  195 / 178
Thinkstock 4,408  / 1,284
Getty 2,374  / 1,090
Fotolia  511 / (DE) 68 (FR) 151 (US) 992
dreamstime 679 / 642
123rf 666 / 610
DepositPhotos 1,153 / 840
PhotoDune  2,572 / 1,504
Canstock  3,754 / 2,788
Alamy  14,168 / (GB) 1,577 (US) 15,159
DollarPhotoClub  3,516 / 1,472

July 28 2014

IS 454 / 299
SS  188 / 191
Thinkstock 4,493  / 1,499
Getty 2,418  / 975
Fotolia  515 / (DE) 63 (FR) 165 (US) 1,195
dreamstime 681 / 646
123rf 635 / 591
DepositPhotos 1,110 / 902
PhotoDune  2,524 / 1,663
Canstock  3,832 / 2,500
Alamy  13,166 / (GB) 1,590 (US) 11,383
DollarPhotoClub  2,766 / 1,395
Canva  3,436  /  1,138


Sept 9 2014

IS 462 / 265
SS  197 / 192
Thinkstock 5,220  / 1,493
Getty 2,490  / 929
Fotolia  524 / (DE) 69 (FR) 197 (US) 1,306
dreamstime 678 / 684
123rf 614 / 614
DepositPhotos 1,097 / 932
PhotoDune  2,472 / 1,655
Canstock  3,903 / 2,674
Alamy  12,448 / (GB) 1,351 (US) 12,991
DollarPhotoClub  2,368 / 1,258
Canva  2,378  /  964

Oct 18 2014

IS 471 / 323
SS  198 / 223
Thinkstock 5,275  / 1,545
Getty 2,447  / 850
Fotolia  567 / (DE) 74 (FR) 175 (US) 1,617
dreamstime 722 / 726
123rf 657 / 694
DepositPhotos 1,113 / 910
PhotoDune  2,684 / 2,227
Canstock  3,923 / 2,935
Alamy  11,845 / (GB) 1,996 (US) 11,726
DollarPhotoClub  2,215 / 1,186
Canva  2,196  /  1,059


3052
I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Top right of those screenshots which Sue posted is the glaring clue:

"This site's metrics are estimated"

Estimated is a euphemism for meaningless :)

From alexa.com regarding what estimated means:

"Not all websites implement our on-site analytics and publish the results. For these sites, we show estimated metrics based on traffic patterns across the web as a whole. We identify these patterns by looking at the activity of millions of web users throughout the world, and using data normalization to correct for any biases.

The more traffic a site gets, the more data we have to calculate estimated metrics. Estimates are more reliable the closer a site is to being ranked #1. Global traffic ranks of 100,000+ are subject to large fluctuations and should be considered rough estimates.

If a site has Certified Metrics instead of estimated, that means its owner has installed code allowing us to directly measure their traffic. These metrics have a greater level of accuracy, no matter what the ranking."

3053
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Retroactive raise in Royalty?
« on: October 16, 2014, 19:28 »
Quote
If you're licensing content with iStock Credits, you can purchase an Extended License when initially licensing content or anytime afterward by calling Support.


http://www.istockphoto.com/help/licenses

Terms of original sale. Seems to me that contributors implicitly accept those terms (and the responsibility to the client) irrespective of deleting their content or later leaving.


The artist supply agreement clause on termination (section 12) states:

"(ii) notwithstanding termination, iStockphoto and its distribution partners shall have the right to continue licensing Accepted Content until it is removed from the Site or other sites where Accepted Content is distributed; "

That says to me that once the content is removed (and above that it talks about having 30 days to remove content) they no longer have that right.

The help text isn't part of the Content License Agreement which says "d) No terms or conditions may be added or deleted unless made in writing and either accepted in writing by an authorized representative of both parties or issued electronically by iStock and accepted in writing by your authorized representative." so you can't amend the agreement by what's written in the forums or the help or anywhere else.

3054
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Retroactive raise in Royalty?
« on: October 16, 2014, 14:07 »
Contributor relations replied this morning. They said the original licenses were purchased prior to deactivation and that the adjustments were "... specifically extended license adjustments."

Here is what I replied:

"(name),

Thanks for the reply. I understand that the original licensing occurred prior to deactivation, but you are not authorized to make any further licenses - adjustments, on or off the web site, after the time I deactivated the image.

You perhaps need to escalate this to a Getty legal team, but you have to direct clients who wish to purchase more/additional/adjusted rights elsewhere for images you no longer have the authorization to license.

The original licenses stand, but you must not make any adjustments for these customers.

I want written assurance that you will not continue to sell license "adjustments" on these (or any other deactivated files). It is a violation of my copyright to sell licenses when you're not authorized to do so.

regards,

Jo Ann"

It isn't that I want more money, I just want iStock's customers to be inconvenienced by iStock's shabby behavior, without which I would probably still be an iStock exclusive. I know iStock/Getty don't care about their suppliers, but I want their customers to be aware of the consequences of how badly Getty treats suppliers. I'd like those customers to have to go to a competitor to purchase the licenses they need (or they can buy them from me - anyone but iStock).

3055
123RF / Re: How does the credit system work if you sell?
« on: October 16, 2014, 13:55 »
The percentage is in the chart I linked to - 30% to start. So for a 5 credit sale, you get .30 x buyer's price per credit x 5

We have been told in the past that the minimum price per credit for the purposes of calculating royalties is 40 cents. So for you, that means the smallest amount you could get for a 5 credit sale would be 60 cents.

What is included in subscriptions is listed here:

http://www.123rf.com/islogin_globalv10.2.php

So TIFF can only be had via credit sales, but they can get XXL JPEG with a subscription.

3056
123RF / Re: How does the credit system work if you sell?
« on: October 16, 2014, 13:21 »
http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php

What you earn is shown in this chart - a fixed amount for each subscription sale and a percentage of what the buyer pays for credit sale. In the latter case, the percentage is fixed but the royalty amounts vary quite a bit. Buyers pay varying amounts based on how many credits they buy.

The 21.6 cents is for a subscription download, as the top row of the chart indicates.

3057
I just completed a survey for Adobe's Customer Advisor Team about what types of stock subscriptions or single image purchases I'd consider buying from Adobe.

They may never get there (they've tried the stock route in the past, twice I think, and it's never worked, but that was pre-CC, so perhaps things have changed) but one interesting aspect was that they were considering subscriptions with monthly limits that had a rollover option and wanted to know if that would make me more likely to buy from them versus a competitor.

As a contributor, subscriptions with rollovers become massively cheap images (which I don't like); as a vendor, it's not clear how they can handle royalties if there's no cushion from the buyer not using their full allotment.

There was no discussion of the size of the library or content, just questions about price and options (monthly vs. daily limits); perhaps no one considers the content matters any more as the libraries are so large? I assume they'd partner with someone and use their library, but I wonder which of the existing agencies would let them have content with a rollover option (Deposit Photos comes to mind as they have no apparent ethical concerns over any business terms).

I can't see why there'd be any appeal from the buyer's side in doing business with Adobe vs. one of the agencies. As a supplier, the partner programs just mean more people other than me taking a cut of the buyer's money, so I can't see it as a good thing unless it expands the market in some way (which I can't see it doing; I'd assume anyone considering this would already be a customer of one or more other agencies).

3058
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Retroactive raise in Royalty?
« on: October 15, 2014, 18:46 »
I'll post whatever contributor support supplies as an explanation, whenever that happens :)

3059
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Retroactive raise in Royalty?
« on: October 15, 2014, 18:31 »
The one file that isn't deactivated is one that only ever sold an extended license (in April 2010) - a multi-seat license (unlimited) where I netted $30.60. Friday's adjustment added $20.84 to that. If it's an unlimited number of seats, what's to add?

The other three files all sold unlimited multi-seat licenses - Jan 12, 2011, Jun 13, 2011 and Sep 21, 2011.

It's unclear why one of the four was 39 cents versus the other three $20.84...

3060
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Retroactive raise in Royalty?
« on: October 15, 2014, 18:14 »
Wonder why a proportion of these extra-website transactions came to $0.

I received three 3-mails on Friday. One for $62.52 which is 3 x 20.84 from the list of four licenses I received today. One e-mail was for 39 cents (the 4th license from today's e-mail) and one of Friday's was for $0 - no file number or other information in today's e-mail accounts for that. Weren't there some of the scammy deals that had licenses that rounded from fractional cents to 0?

3061
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Retroactive raise in Royalty?
« on: October 15, 2014, 18:04 »
If what they told you is accurate, I don't know why the e-mail said "The following file(s) were recently licensed to an iStock customer in a transaction that did not occur through the website"

I also don't know if they're in a position to grant more permissions or anything else when a file has been deactivated just because the buyer licensed it originally while it was active.

I'm not going to hire a lawyer over 60-something dollars, but I find their high-handed approach pretty outrageous, particularly because it was over their high-handed approach that I had to deactivate the files in the first place.

3062
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Retroactive raise in Royalty?
« on: October 15, 2014, 17:46 »
I just contacted iStock support because three of the four files "recently" licensed to an iStock customer were ones I deactivated in February 2013 (over the refusing contributor opt outs for the Getty-Google deal and similar).

They had no right to license these images to anyone, through the website or any other way.

I'll post whatever reply I get.

Tossers!

3063
Image Sleuth / Re: Fiverr
« on: October 15, 2014, 10:38 »
I thought this had to be a joke (I know you said you couldn't make this stuff up, but...)

It's real, and it's not new, although it's apparently (alexa ranking) very much an also-ran in the micro jobs sweepstakes.

The owner (Thomas De Vos) has a blog post on the site from April 2012, so it's been around at least that long.

fiverr has a global alexa rank of 134 versus 37,072 for fourerr.

I reported this offer to Shutterstock - perhaps they can get it shut down

http://fourerr.com/Graphics/22104/give-you-4-Shutterstock-images-of-your-choice

3064
My experience is that there is a market for images of a home, home office, home's garden in various seasons, home remodeling, repair, fix-up etc. The home in question is my home so I don't have to schedule time and I try to use any repairs or remodeling as it's proven to be a saleable subject.

I don't know if that really counts as architectural or real estate though.

3065
Canva / Re: Canva
« on: October 13, 2014, 16:37 »
...
Or have I got it all wrong.....

Not all, but some :)

The only reason you'd offer a PNG to Canva is for a file with a transparent background - JPEG cannot have transparency. Not sure what subset of your portfolio would fall into that category, but it's a big win for the user to have objects with a transparent background ready to overlay on their design.

3066
Shutterstock had a good month - up 18% over August and up 10% on last September (and I haven't uploaded much this year)

Canva is still tiny overall, but as Sean mentioned, they beat GL Stock (and I have only about 250 of my portfolio on Canva)!

Dreamstime was disappointing - 20% down on August and 25% down on last September

123rf fell off a cliff - sales were half what they were last September. They had been doing well prior to some time in August - I wonder if the Dollar Photo Club is having an impact on them (123rf is one of the cheaper agencies).

CanStock would have been a wreck but for one distribution sale that ended them flat with August

PhotoDune was down too - sales were half of August's (but they don't seem to have the clear seasonal rhythms I see at other sites).

Alamy's virtually dead (but I did get paid as some prior sales *finally* cleared). Stockfresh and GL Stock get occasional sales, but the volume is so low that comparisons are meaningless. I get sales every month from my 109 images left on iStock, but again, it's not significant.

FAA isn't regular enough, but two sales in Sept beat my entire month at 123rf (given how low the latter fell) so I'm happy to take another little chunk.

3067
iStockPhoto.com / Re: iStock has got so bad I now owe THEM money
« on: September 30, 2014, 10:13 »
If i calculated an all-time RPD it would start in 2004 with subs at 20 cents each, which wouldn't really help anyone uploading today figure out what to expect.

This month (the day's not over yet, but...) my RPD is $1.00077; last month it was 96 cents.

YMMV

3068
iStockPhoto.com / Re: iStock has got so bad I now owe THEM money
« on: September 30, 2014, 09:48 »
Your Shutterstock RPD estimate is way off. Mine (and I'm just average but paid at the highest level) is in the .90 to $1 range

3069
iStockPhoto.com / Re: iStock has got so bad I now owe THEM money
« on: September 29, 2014, 18:31 »
I'm going climbing in the Himalayas for a month next week so I'll try to ignore the coming calamity until I get back.

Lobo's promised to drop by later to join in the conversation.

Have a great time - I'm sure the calamity will be waiting for you upon your return :)

FWIW, $7 or $0 are statistically equal when comparing to your prior income to today, so I assume it's some attempt to mute the impact of a major, long-term contributor talking about woes.

3070
If they were to distribute the image with a press release, would an extended license cover such a use? If that's the case, then perhaps getting in touch with them to find out where they licensed it and whether they purchased an extended license might be a start (cheaper than getting a lawyer involved).

This seems like a parallel to something that happens a lot - someone purchases a license for an online article and then lots of other places pick the content up (with the photo) and "reprint" the article all over the place. It'd be nice if this type of "syndication rights" license was something all the agencies explicitly offered in the extended license uses

3071
iStockPhoto.com / Re: iStock has got so bad I now owe THEM money
« on: September 29, 2014, 16:26 »
So what are you planning to do?

I spent 3 years as an exclusive and decided that the Sept. 2010 changes were not sustainable for me, as an exclusive, and reverted to independence. Since then a number of exclusives have "talked" with me about the issues of leaving exclusivity and many had such large golden handcuffs that they felt they couldn't walk away.

Of late, even some who were still hanging on in the hope that something would turn around are beginning finally to take steps to leave. It's a truly wretched situation, but I honestly don't know why anyone would still believe that things will turn around in the short run.

Which leaves exclusives with two unpleasant alternatives - stay and accept whatever comes or do the work to get established on other sites as an independent. I guess a third would be to leave microstock completely.

You have a large proven portfolio that will sell wherever you choose to make it available. Perhaps we need a half way house for recovering exclusives? :)

I don't mean to make light of the decision to drop the crown, but what's holding you back?

3072
New Sites - General / Re: new site stocktal
« on: September 27, 2014, 17:57 »
Why are we even giving this bunch the benefit of the doubt?

Because they are offering 78% return on each sale. If this site actually starts selling stuff, all this vitriol will quickly be forgotten and photographers will flock in droves to be a part of it. It's what we've been asking for all these years. A fair return on our work.

78% isn't a problem, but it isn't a complete list of what defines an ideal (or even good) agency.

Think of all the problems we've had over the last decade with a variety of agencies, the biggest of which is no sales or very low sales, others of which are horrible upload processes, terrible reviews (slow, arbitrary, inconsistent...) and not getting paid (at all, the right amount or on time). And lousy royalty rates.

I never joined Deposit Photos because of the various issues I saw with their business practices. I wouldn't give them my images even if they offered 85% royalties because I think their track record suggests bad things would happen, sooner or later.

Anyone who forgets about all other things beyond a percentage royalty is exercising poor judgment, IMO.

3073
New Sites - General / Re: new site stocktal
« on: September 27, 2014, 13:32 »
I have no intention of submitting to a site that appears so random and changeable. If no one submits, perhaps they'll calm down enough to make the process decipherable

What possible reason is there to indulge such madness?  Reviewers could, if they wanted to, check out portfolios elsewhere, see that they've been in place for years, at multiple agencies, and avoid putting egg all over their own faces by all but accusing an established photographer of theft

The shoot first ask questions afterwards approach isn't being innovative and shouldn't be confused with such

3074
123RF / Re: How to disable/ remove an image from 123RF?
« on: September 26, 2014, 19:40 »
There are no holds on 123rf. If you go to the contributor interface (logged in) and use the history function to find your files, you can delete them yourself

3075
Image Sleuth / Re: Fiverr
« on: September 26, 2014, 18:03 »
I contacted Shutterstock March 24 2014 and got the standard "We take copyright infringement ... very seriously..." reply

I think Fiverr is just a very disreputable place, but the agencies don't seem to be all that aggressive in going after this stuff.

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