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Messages - panicAttack

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451
I think you will find that the Law in Europe only sees equality for all before the law, which will make your models thoughts subjective, you really will not have a case with this.

Of course it is possible and most probably will end like that, but I would like to talk with someone who is a lawyer so I asked if anyone here know any lawyer from Germany, or that have similar experiences.

His images are popular, used in hundreds of site with many kind of contest but never in sexual orientation.

452
Doesnt work that way I think. Its contractual, not about his feelings.

A photo of a Democrat used in a Republican campaign could be upsetting, but there is no violation.
Depends on the agency. That's a forbidden use on some.
Is it? How do you determine if I am a republican or just out for a money grab?

It doesn't matter if you are republican or democrat, this matters (SS terms of use):

Portray any person depicted in Visual Content (a "Model") in a way that a reasonable person would find offensive, including but not limited to depicting a Model: a) in connection with pornography, "adult videos", adult entertainment venues, escort services, dating services, or the like; b) in connection with the advertisement or promotion of tobacco products; c) as endorsing a political party, candidate, elected official, or opinion; d) as suffering from, or medicating for, a physical or mental ailment; or e) engaging in immoral or criminal activities.

But nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Like I said above, even if the image was bought from iS, which forbids such use, a lawyer for the defence of the buyer could reasonably argue that you made the image available to SS and FT, which allow the use (unless you see something different there), so presumably you and the model agreed to that use.

I was just replying to his comment, and also send email to SS, and will send to other agencies regarding sexual orientation topic.


453
Ok, fair point.

So do you know where the image was bought?

And is someone a reasonable person if he gets offended by sexual orientation? Seems quite unreasonable to me, but thats personal.

I'm trying to find that out.

In my opinion, reasonable person who like Adidas and find himself in ad for Nike would't care. It would be unreasonable. But sexual orientation is sensitive topic, as well as racially, religion or political.

I wouldn't care if my baby son images are used in gay adoption ad, but that's me and I agree with you that is personal.

454
Doesnt work that way I think. Its contractual, not about his feelings.

A photo of a Democrat used in a Republican campaign could be upsetting, but there is no violation.
Depends on the agency. That's a forbidden use on some.
Is it? How do you determine if I am a republican or just out for a money grab?

It doesn't matter if you are republican or democrat, this matters (SS terms of use):

Portray any person depicted in Visual Content (a "Model") in a way that a reasonable person would find offensive, including but not limited to depicting a Model: a) in connection with pornography, "adult videos", adult entertainment venues, escort services, dating services, or the like; b) in connection with the advertisement or promotion of tobacco products; c) as endorsing a political party, candidate, elected official, or opinion; d) as suffering from, or medicating for, a physical or mental ailment; or e) engaging in immoral or criminal activities.

455

What if his head was put onto some fashion he deemed offensive, e.g. totally contrary to the image he puts out? What if he was advertising some product/campaign he disapproves of, particularly if he actively campaigns against it in real life? (He could of course officially decry the advert saying how much he disapproves of it, but again, his worth as a stock model would sink.)

Political, religion and sexual orientation, at least for me and him, is not comparable with fashion taste. He, as reasonable person, haven't find any of those offensive.

456
I have no idea what legally constitutes a "reasonable person".

If his images are used all over the web for many sites (fashion, fitness, webshop... etc) he didn't find any of that offensive. Maybe there is something offensive if his sexual orientation are being falsely presented. It is some kind of personal or intimately thing.

457
Yes, I explained to all my models that it is impossible to control where and who will buy/use images, but also that I will do anything I legally can do if I find out that images are used in sensitive way. And this case is.

I know that gay pride doesn't have anything with that, but design studio does.

Not to mention that I do not have any keywords that can be correlated with that use.

Did you read all the agencies' conditions of use carefully before you uploaded to them? Because I can't find any misuse in some of the T&Cs.
It was nice of you to guarantee you'd spend all your money doing 'anything you legally can' to protect your micro-earning images. Especially when often there won't be anything you can legally do.


If I can't do anything legally I can't spend all or any of my money.

The thing I am talking about is "reasonable person would find offensive" part.

btw. this is not that picture, but would reasonable person can find offensive this?

https://www.facebook.com/events/797229950373460/




458

Grab a lawyer, sure. He will help you get your $0.38 back.

this is not about image theft.

459
Yes, I explained to all my models that it is impossible to control where and who will buy/use images, but also that I will do anything I legally can do if I find out that images are used in sensitive way. And this case is.

I know that gay pride doesn't have anything with that, but design studio does.

Not to mention that I do not have any keywords that can be correlated with that use.

460
You have to ask yourself, would a proud gay model be able to object to his image being used in a ad promoting a straight agenda? I don't think so.

I'm sure he would be.

I am here to ask, so it's okay for all of you to have your own opinion and thank you for that. If religious, political and other orientation are not allowed by terms of use, those things can be even worst experience for the model. Not talking about his opinion about gay people, it doesn't matter, I neither have anything against anyone, but for young person it is possible to have some bad experience regarding other modeling jobs and this is falsely represented person (against SS terms of use).

Not to mention that my job will suffer financial damage if he or his friends I already shoot would not model for me anymore because of that.

461
Doesnt work that way I think. Its contractual, not about his feelings.

A photo of a Democrat used in a Republican campaign could be upsetting, but there is no violation.

And what if he already had some bad experience about that?

As i said before, as young straight male he could have some problems if anything with some anti-gay people because he is planning to live in Germany and his photo were used all over that place.

My username has nothing to do with that.

462
Its not defamatory so I dont think there is case.

Looks like it is for him and that matters.

I will try to contact some lawyers from Germany to see what can be done, if anyone have experience I would like to know about it.

Thank you

463
Greetings and excuse my English

My straight male stock model has been used in one Berlin gay pride event.

I don't have anything against anyone, but for young straight male it is very sensitive case when using on those kind of campaign.

I am selling stock on 5 agencies, SS, IS, dreamstime, fotolia and 123rf.

I don't sell my images as sensitive use.

I am thinking about getting a lawyer from Germany, if anyone know someone who is good and experienced in those kid of thing?

What can be done about all this?

Thank you.

464
I post rarely, just when I can help someone. Go back to my first post, I just wanted to help OP with some reasonable info. And then you jump in like you want to fight (Chinese or not Chinese, what?). Is it complete darkness or not, you can't give so general advice, like 8 or 11, since you don't know the valuo of   light in his studio. Who said a bright studio is for freezing action? You didn't even read my post properly. What's your goal here? To fight? Or you are just bored?

no fight, peace! you should read my first post, then you should read your first about that he need 10k dollars strobes to freeze motion and incorrect flash duration statement. You were not helping him with that info and I was just correcting that. Now read all your and mine post and see who is getting offensive here ;)

I was just saying that to freeze most people action studio shots, you can do it with any IGBT strobes. You were also wrong about flash duration, voltage-controlled flashes have shortest t.1 duration on maximum power level, IGBT strobes and regular hot-shoe flashes have  shortest duration on minimum power. So your advice was very general and incorrect so I tried to correct you, nothing more.

He can close aperture just enough when he take shot to see clear black frame when reviewing image on his camera. It's easier to do so with slightly lit studio and f8 or so closed aperture shooting in sync speed then doing it in complete dark room without any light source with f1.4 or so because it takes longer. Focus, turn all lights of, shoot.

And one more thing(not just for you), it isn't the same freezing motion of water drop flowing from top of your frame to bottom (for that you need shorter then 1/5000), compared to one full body length person jumping with hands and feet only moving in small part of the frame (1/2500 is more then enough).



465
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 15:49 »
..and all somebody has to do is link the median wage instead of the average...

here: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_European_countries_by_median_wage


Those values are GROSS income. In Portugal, after the huge taxes (among the highest in Europe) the NET income drops considerably and those 694 will fall to under 600.

And if you consider we pay some of the highest prices for energy, fuel and everything else there's not much money left for anything.


Here is your net income. There are 10 EU countries behind Portugal and Greece!

Portugal has 8177/12 = 681/month NET


2013 !


isn't that time both country were already in recession?

466
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 15:08 »

And pushing money into someones pockets

You are right about all but this one. Psychologically healthy adult can't be pushed into debt if he don't want/need it, as you haven't been neither have I. We can assume that Greek government were psychologically healthy adults that were chosen by millions psychologically healthy Greeks.




467
You couldn't freeze hair movement because of long flash duration, it has nothing to do do with flash sync. I don't know what flash brand you are using, but the cheaper ones, like Chinese ones, have too long flash duration. Try flash output keeping to its minimum, since the flash duration is shortest at the minimum output.

It doesn't matter if brand is Chinese, USA or european, what matter is t.1 time, and my not very cheap but Chinese IGBT strobes I use have very short t.1 so I can freeze things like jump, flowing hair or other actions shots.

You however need to be in dark studio with no lights leaking when flash is not active. It's good to close lens to f8-f11 with lowest possible ISO (but it's typical for studio shots).

well, I don't know of a Chinese brand that delivers 1/12000s like Profoto pack 7a and 8a do. Anyway, saying OP to close his lens to 8 or 11 means nothing. In complete darkness it could be not necessary, in full bright studio it could be not enough.

Complete darkness and focus? I was talking about dark studio with only some modeling lights to help focusing. Then you dont have to prefocus. Full bright studios are not for freezing actions unless you have continuous lights.

You don't need 1/12000 for people shots, trust me. t.1 below 1/2500 is enough. 12000 is more for balloons filled with water stuff.

468
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 14:01 »
Obviously I'm very young - why else would I choose Greece to retire in? I'd have to be over 20 to retire anywhere else ;)

Seriously, though, this "the Greeks are living off other people's money" meme is nonsense. The Greeks have a loan and have been repaying it. If you buy a car, does that mean you are living off other people's money, because you haven't finished paying for it? If and when they default, then you can say they are living off someone else's cash - but so far the lenders have been living off  the Greeks by taking interest from them. It hasn't cost the rest of Europe anything.

Your A and B are not the questions at all. The real questions are "Do we take 10 or 20 years as poverty and mass unemployment as the price of being in the euro, or do we take two or three or four years of extreme poverty followed by some sort of recovery in order to get out of it? Unfortunately, Syriza is now peddling the line that the Greeks get to keep the euro whatever happens.

Didn't read that part about your retirement.

Car is good example, even better is when you taking others money not to invest it so it can return someday, but to pay wages and pensions.

Greek people are choosing the option not to pay debts when trying to keep their wages, and it's not a problem as it is, they also keep loaning more money to fund their wages.

Why they didn't leave Euro while it was working good to them? They want euro/germany to pay wages (loaning more and more money) but not to pay debts.

Leave Eu and leave those naughty lenders without their interest.

When you said it isn't cost Eu anything, you mean Greece already returned all money it took?


469
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 13:36 »

I am all for referendum, but people of Greece are not going hungry or dying. People in some African countries are, but not in Greece. They have higher pension and wages then people in many others countries in EU, and once they had income even above Germany.  It's sad and unfairly that Croatian, Slovenian, Slovakian, Hungarian, Romanian, Polish or Bulgarian people (tax payers) sending financial help when you check this map:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage


That map serves as a blatant misinformation about the average net income, at least about Portugal, and distorts the truth and the perception of those looking at it.

The average net income for the vast majority of the population is nowhere near 1001, but being really optimistic more along 600, and now even less with all the wages dropping.

What happens is that the top ranks of the Portuguese companies are among the highest paid in Europe, even above Germany, while the normal worker is one of the worst paid in the Western Europe.

If you have a CEO earning 50.000 a month (and there are LOADS of them) and his 100 workers earning 500 you get an average income of 990,10. But the reality is that you may also have a couple directors earning 5.000 raising the average even more.

On a map you may look at those 1001 and think it's not that bad, but the truth is that most of the population is nowhere near that value and closer the the minimum wage of around 500.

If I eat two chickens and you eat none, the average will say we eat a chicken each, despite you're starving to death and I'm getting fatter everyday...

..and all somebody has to do is link the median wage instead of the average...

here: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_European_countries_by_median_wage




great, thanks, that's even better. Now look at the median wages on countries in European union like Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary etc. those are also the ones whose money is being pumped in Greece

Even better if anyone can find median wages in all EU 5 years ago.

470
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 11:59 »

If greeks are smart enough, they will get out of the euro and start walking with their own legs.

They could already do that but they didn't... I wonder why. :) They still can.

Those two guys Tsipras and Varufakis lost six months doing nothing, as dk said from country getting out of recession put it in even more problems and when they need to make one decision and people have chosen them exactly for that decision (in short term explained "f... off creditors" as they said) they don't have competence to do that.

If Greek hate so much those evil european bankers/creditors/germans/IMF... why not just show them middle finger and go out of euro and eurozone?

answer: They don't hate their money :)


471
You couldn't freeze hair movement because of long flash duration, it has nothing to do do with flash sync. I don't know what flash brand you are using, but the cheaper ones, like Chinese ones, have too long flash duration. Try flash output keeping to its minimum, since the flash duration is shortest at the minimum output.

It doesn't matter if brand is Chinese, USA or european, what matter is t.1 time, and my not very cheap but Chinese IGBT strobes I use have very short t.1 so I can freeze things like jump, flowing hair or other actions shots.

You however need to be in dark studio with no lights leaking when flash is not active. It's good to close lens to f8-f11 with lowest possible ISO (but it's typical for studio shots).

472
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 10:56 »
Joining the euro is the worst thing that has happened to Greece for a long time, maybe even since the end of the civil war.

Why did Greece even joined? even better question is... why they don't like euro now, but 8 years ago it was all good about euro?



473
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 10:53 »

Wage levels don't necessarily reflect poverty. The poverty of trying to live in a flat in Athens, with hire-purchase debts owing on your car, furniture and white goods after losing your job is quite different from the poverty of being in a village, having a donkey, a stream with a stone for the washing, and a vegetable plot with onions, eggplants and tomatoes.

situation in Croatia and many more countries isn't any different? People loosing their jobs daily.

I don't know a single person who cash out his flat or car...

Whose fault is if that person got credit to buy a new car?




474
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 10:39 »

...maybe you're not young, but you're awfully naive - victim of poor western  propaganda...

Ok. so, explain me please what is going on there?

...revolution against rich...

wrong.

revolution against paying back your dept. Some of that money surely belong to rich/banks, some to people who got their wages cut long time ago and some of their tax money goes to Greece.

you can also lend me some money to show you how that feels :D

475
Off Topic / Re: GO Greece!
« on: June 27, 2015, 10:32 »

...maybe you're not young, but you're awfully naive - victim of poor western  propaganda...

Ok. so, explain me please what is going on there?





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