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..yes - he is a good poker player - we agree ...
If greeks are smart enough, they will get out of the euro and start walking with their own legs.
Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on June 27, 2015, 07:29Joining the euro is the worst thing that has happened to Greece for a long time, maybe even since the end of the civil war.Why did Greece even joined? even better question is... why they don't like euro now, but 8 years ago it was all good about euro?
Joining the euro is the worst thing that has happened to Greece for a long time, maybe even since the end of the civil war.
WOW - Bailout extension rejected! Tuesday is THE Day!Euro finance ministers have refused to extend Greeces bailout following shock decision to hold a referendumhttp://www.theguardian.com/business/series/eurozone-crisis-liveThe TV channel has also reported this evening that some 400m euro have been withdrawn from ATMs since Tsipras announced the vote. Dozens of MPs have been seen lining up at ATMs in the parliament building today.
I am all for referendum, but people of Greece are not going hungry or dying. People in some African countries are, but not in Greece. They have higher pension and wages then people in many others countries in EU, and once they had income even above Germany. It's sad and unfairly that Croatian, Slovenian, Slovakian, Hungarian, Romanian, Polish or Bulgarian people (tax payers) sending financial help when you check this map:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage
Quote from: panicAttack on June 27, 2015, 07:37I am all for referendum, but people of Greece are not going hungry or dying. People in some African countries are, but not in Greece. They have higher pension and wages then people in many others countries in EU, and once they had income even above Germany. It's sad and unfairly that Croatian, Slovenian, Slovakian, Hungarian, Romanian, Polish or Bulgarian people (tax payers) sending financial help when you check this map:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wageThat map serves as a blatant misinformation about the average net income, at least about Portugal, and distorts the truth and the perception of those looking at it.The average net income for the vast majority of the population is nowhere near 1001, but being really optimistic more along 600, and now even less with all the wages dropping.What happens is that the top ranks of the Portuguese companies are among the highest paid in Europe, even above Germany, while the normal worker is one of the worst paid in the Western Europe. If you have a CEO earning 50.000 a month (and there are LOADS of them) and his 100 workers earning 500 you get an average income of 990,10. But the reality is that you may also have a couple directors earning 5.000 raising the average even more.On a map you may look at those 1001 and think it's not that bad, but the truth is that most of the population is nowhere near that value and closer the the minimum wage of around 500.If I eat two chickens and you eat none, the average will say we eat a chicken each, despite you're starving to death and I'm getting fatter everyday...
If you are very young I am sorry but this is funniest (read:stupidest) thing I read here.Are Cambodia and Vietnam taking their tax money to help Greece or does it goes for Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia and others?Germans spend their money, Greece is spending others money. No more. Referendum can be simplified to something like this:a) we still want to live like drunk millionaire spending poorer people money we haven't earned.b) We need to settle down, live modestly and spending money we earned.
Quote from: StockPhotosArt on June 27, 2015, 13:16Quote from: panicAttack on June 27, 2015, 07:37I am all for referendum, but people of Greece are not going hungry or dying. People in some African countries are, but not in Greece. They have higher pension and wages then people in many others countries in EU, and once they had income even above Germany. It's sad and unfairly that Croatian, Slovenian, Slovakian, Hungarian, Romanian, Polish or Bulgarian people (tax payers) sending financial help when you check this map:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wageThat map serves as a blatant misinformation about the average net income, at least about Portugal, and distorts the truth and the perception of those looking at it.The average net income for the vast majority of the population is nowhere near 1001, but being really optimistic more along 600, and now even less with all the wages dropping.What happens is that the top ranks of the Portuguese companies are among the highest paid in Europe, even above Germany, while the normal worker is one of the worst paid in the Western Europe. If you have a CEO earning 50.000 a month (and there are LOADS of them) and his 100 workers earning 500 you get an average income of 990,10. But the reality is that you may also have a couple directors earning 5.000 raising the average even more.On a map you may look at those 1001 and think it's not that bad, but the truth is that most of the population is nowhere near that value and closer the the minimum wage of around 500.If I eat two chickens and you eat none, the average will say we eat a chicken each, despite you're starving to death and I'm getting fatter everyday.....and all somebody has to do is link the median wage instead of the average...here: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_European_countries_by_median_wage
Obviously I'm very young - why else would I choose Greece to retire in? I'd have to be over 20 to retire anywhere else Seriously, though, this "the Greeks are living off other people's money" meme is nonsense. The Greeks have a loan and have been repaying it. If you buy a car, does that mean you are living off other people's money, because you haven't finished paying for it? If and when they default, then you can say they are living off someone else's cash - but so far the lenders have been living off the Greeks by taking interest from them. It hasn't cost the rest of Europe anything.Your A and B are not the questions at all. The real questions are "Do we take 10 or 20 years as poverty and mass unemployment as the price of being in the euro, or do we take two or three or four years of extreme poverty followed by some sort of recovery in order to get out of it? Unfortunately, Syriza is now peddling the line that the Greeks get to keep the euro whatever happens.
It isn't just Greece, so many countries have been living beyond their means for years now and I hope it all comes to an end soon.
..and all somebody has to do is link the median wage instead of the average...here: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_European_countries_by_median_wage
And pushing money into someones pockets
Quote from: spike on June 27, 2015, 13:22..and all somebody has to do is link the median wage instead of the average...here: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_European_countries_by_median_wageThose values are GROSS income. In Portugal, after the huge taxes (among the highest in Europe) the NET income drops considerably and those 694 will fall to under 600. And if you consider we pay some of the highest prices for energy, fuel and everything else there's not much money left for anything.
banksters
Quote from: StockPhotosArt on June 27, 2015, 14:35Quote from: spike on June 27, 2015, 13:22..and all somebody has to do is link the median wage instead of the average...here: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_European_countries_by_median_wageThose values are GROSS income. In Portugal, after the huge taxes (among the highest in Europe) the NET income drops considerably and those 694 will fall to under 600. And if you consider we pay some of the highest prices for energy, fuel and everything else there's not much money left for anything.Here is your net income. There are 10 EU countries behind Portugal and Greece!Portugal has 8177/12 = 681/month NET
Quote from: Zero Talent on June 27, 2015, 15:32Quote from: StockPhotosArt on June 27, 2015, 14:35Quote from: spike on June 27, 2015, 13:22..and all somebody has to do is link the median wage instead of the average...here: http://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_European_countries_by_median_wageThose values are GROSS income. In Portugal, after the huge taxes (among the highest in Europe) the NET income drops considerably and those 694 will fall to under 600. And if you consider we pay some of the highest prices for energy, fuel and everything else there's not much money left for anything.Here is your net income. There are 10 EU countries behind Portugal and Greece!Portugal has 8177/12 = 681/month NET2013 !
Quote from: Lizard on June 27, 2015, 14:57bankstersI really hate the use of this term / meme. I don't believe it gets us anywhere. And blaming bankers is, ultimately, the same as simplistically blaming anyone else for what are actually much more complicated issues. Also - it feeds into that whole daft conspiracy mindset.Also - well we've been here before - where people start vilifying international financiers and imaginary elites. And it did not end well. Indeed the formation of the old Common Market was, partly, an optimistic response to all of that.
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Topic: GO Greece! (Read 83900 times)
