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Messages - chromaco

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126
Adobe Stock / Re: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1
« on: April 29, 2014, 12:43 »
Mat thanks for chiming in. I appreciate that you are willing to discuss this with us.
Perhaps I can offer another suggestion.
How about a collection of on-demand images that draw a reasonable price and pay a reasonable commission?
For example if I were given the option of only selling my vectors via a collection that paid 50% off of a $20 sale you would probably start getting all of my images instead of none of them. My images sell well on demand and you would only need to sell about 8% as many of my images to make the same profit. This scenario gives you access to my best product (for a better product offering to your customers) and we both make more money. Why on earth wouldn't you be going after the best products and selling them for a reasonable rate? I just don't get it.

127
This is what I mean.
I like Canstock and 123 because they sell really well for me. Istock isn't all that good for me but mostly because I have chosen not to deal with them. FT is worthless and I really like GL.
Self hosted and a couple of sites that don't even earn a rating are my preferred uploads. But you seem to be genuinely interested so here is my upload priority list.

Self hosted - (5 sites)
Clipartof - (closed to new contributors)
Toonvectors - (70% commission on $20 vectors)
GLStock (52% on $14.00 vectors)
Pond 5 (I don't actually upload here yet but intend to when I start uploading to micros again)

Cutcaster
Stockfresh
Stockami
Featurepics
Yay
(I like the RPD even though the sales are slow- the way I look at it is if they are stealing sales from the sub sites great...I get paid better. These site combine for Christmas money at the end of the year)

Shutterstock
Canstock
123
Dreamstime
(I really, really dislike subs because I see them as killing my future sales. These sites now only get the images I have tracked as not great or non sellers on my preferred sites.It is also much more likely that my images will be stolen/shared on free sites because of the low price.)

Sites I probably won't upload to again
Bigstock (I liked these guys until they introduced the subs)
IS (Hundreds of reasons)
FT (Sales just never justified liking these guys)
DP (RPD is just to low for the volume)
Graphic River (Prices are too low-even though they do have decent volume)
Veer (Just a strange site with weird sales patterns)

Sites that will never get anymore of my images
Crestock (I can live without the four $.25 sales I get a month)
Vectorstock (Price is way to low)
Isignstock (No sales details and an arbitrary commission at the end of the month)

I want to be selling my images 20 years from now and my images take a while to produce. I will never have 10,000 images so I feel like I need to protect the ones I do have. I now look for a RPD of at least $7.00. I won't remove images that I have already uploaded but my new stuff goes to my preferred sites first. This is working for me because my income continues to rise and I don't lose sleep at night hoping that Shutterstock doesn't change their commission structure.
Note: I spend a lot of time doing things that most people would consider insane. It probably takes me around 10 minutes per image to prepare and upload an image to the first site and about 3 minutes for every site after that. I spend a massive amount of time on keywording, image naming, and content descriptions. Finally, I would guess that about 70% of my income comes directly from Google Image searches. I would argue that anyone who says that you can't sell images without a huge marketing budget is simply wrong. I'm tempted to start a co-op of illustrators based on what I've learned and the symbiostock foundation but I'm not sure enough people would be willing to invest the money and more importantly the time it would take to make it work.


128
Illustrators absolutely must upload to Toonvectors! Sales are slowish (but regular and consistent monthly) but at a commission of $14 per sale and 70% you should support this site simply on principle. Upload is a bit unorthodox but once you get it is extremely easy. Toonvectors commissions for me are about 2 times DP and Fotolia and blow the other smaller sites out of the water. This site and Symbio are the two most promising prospects for illustrators in years.

Are there other vector sites you would recommend?
I've learned that my results and recommendations are so far from the norm that most people will violently disagree with me. Ill just say this... SS is only 12% of my earnings and IS is less than 2%. There are other options but you need to test them all, track your results and upload accordingly. May not work for you but I personally am not to worried about 1 single agency doing something to dramatically affect my earnings.

129
Yes, it says that 4-6 years ago anyone who had a high performing portfolio was crazy not to be exclusive. After that it simply became too expensive to leave. If I had started in 2006 versus 2010 there is no doubt in my mind I would have been exclusive as well. The question is when I would have decided when to drop it. I honestly don't know what I would have done and I think about it a lot.

130
Finally, when you add up the total numbers for independents a number of very high performing sites are not represented in the polls because of voting minimums.
This would hurt exclusives numbers many many times more than nonexclusives.  How many contributors here are making more than 2500/month at Shutterstock?  My guess is very few.  If you were to ask that of exclusives I would guess many of them would be well over that.

True, but this just reinforces my contention that the voting groups are nowhere near equal. In all reality the IS number probably should be higher but that is due to the quality of contributors rather than the agency.

131
I think the flaw with the earnings poll is that the collection of the membership voting is disregarded and the agency is given the credit instead. I think you could argue that collective of contributors who are exclusive as a whole are a stronger performing group than the collective of contributors who are independent. If you were to take the same size group of exclusives and relate them to a corresponding group of independents. Same types/sizes and performing portfolios and did this on a one to one basis I would bet that the earning potentials are not all that different. In other words 100 exclusive contributors versus 100 independent contributors with comparable portfolios. The real issue here is that the voting groups are vastly different and that is skewing the results. This is what is causing the huge earnings discrepancy and not necessarily the agencies.

The other problem is where people have decided to spend their time. Exclusives have put all of their effort into Istock and that is where their results are showing. Independents have spread their results over multiple agencies. My guess is that whatever direction you choose to make a change you are likely to take a financial hit until you can rebuild at the new place. Finally, when you add up the total numbers for independents a number of very high performing sites are not represented in the polls because of voting minimums.

132
Illustrators absolutely must upload to Toonvectors! Sales are slowish (but regular and consistent monthly) but at a commission of $14 per sale and 70% you should support this site simply on principle. Upload is a bit unorthodox but once you get it is extremely easy. Toonvectors commissions for me are about 2 times DP and Fotolia and blow the other smaller sites out of the water. This site and Symbio are the two most promising prospects for illustrators in years.

Should I feel guilty that you promote Toon Vectors more than I do?  ;D

Anyway, I'll second it being a good site. What type of images do you sell Kayann?

No... I'm completely unbiased. You said you wish you had about 5 clipartof's. In my mind Toonvectors is about as close as we are going to get right now. Helping this site grow is in my own (and every other illustrator's) best interest. The next step is some sort of collaboration/ co-op on symbio. Looks like that may be on the horizon but not for another year or two. Hopefully Leo's new version of Symbio will allow some of this functionality eventually.

If I can make a suggestion/request/appeal/plea to all other illustrators.
Please delay the uploading of your images to the subscription sites until you have given the better paying sites an opportunity to index and SEO your images first. Sites that offer 50%-70% commissions on $20-40 dollar vectors deserve our support and this is one simple way to help them grow. I realize most contributors can't afford not to upload to SS and IS and the others but you might be able to wait a month or two. In the long run I think this will benefit us all.

133
Illustrators absolutely must upload to Toonvectors! Sales are slowish (but regular and consistent monthly) but at a commission of $14 per sale and 70% you should support this site simply on principle. Upload is a bit unorthodox but once you get it is extremely easy. Toonvectors commissions for me are about 2 times DP and Fotolia and blow the other smaller sites out of the water. This site and Symbio are the two most promising prospects for illustrators in years.

134
Off Topic / Re: Unsustainable!
« on: April 14, 2014, 16:50 »
You dont seem to understand that there are still agencies out there charging a lot more then SS and IS and still do well. You need to get with them. I pointed them out a few comments ago. But you seem to ignore all we say. You fail to grasp the fact that you are free to remove your images from SS and put them where they make you more money.
This is actually dead on right. An example: Clipartof consistently outsells SS with $40 vectors and an average RPD of $7.5. They are winning because their SEO is amazing and the customer service is outstanding. You don't need to sell at sub prices if you are doing it very well. There are other ways to compete. It is up to the contributors to choose who to support and where to send their best product to first. However I will admit that sales at Clipartof would probably be much much higher if my fellow artists would stop supplying the sub sites.

135
General Stock Discussion / Heartbleed bug!
« on: April 11, 2014, 10:49 »
One of my employees just handed me a sheet about this. Looks like I need to change passwords on Gmail, Facebook, Youtube and about a dozen more. Apparently you don't want to change passwords until the patch has been fixed but you do want to change after they have been fixed.

Some other major sites apparently aren't affected. Does anyone know which micros are affected by this and which ones aren't? MSG? Any others?

Thanks
Dennis

136
Leo put out a new version out this morning. I just upgraded and my first impression is that the search is considerably faster.

137
Hi all. PM from Leo.  "I will be putting out an update today or tomorrow. It is going to fix it by stripping out some necessary features and non-essential database use and get back the old performance. Plus a few other things. Also I'm hard at work on a new version of Symbiostock to replace the present one which was in planning since the release of our present one."

138
Does anyone know if the stats showing for sept and oct 13 are the corrected ones or the ones before the clawback? In other words do I need to subtract the clawback numbers from what is showing. Also any idea how to figure out what is clawed back in Sept and what is in Oct?

139
Image Sleuth / Re: Fiverr
« on: March 24, 2014, 15:00 »
I suppose you could just scare the crap out of them and make it so scary that it isn't worth the $4.00. Send them a message like this.

"Hi, I noticed that you are illegally reselling stock images from one of the major stock agencies. This is illegal and against the terms of your agreement with these companies. I have instructed my lawyer to purchase via fiverr.com your gig and request that you download and resell one of the images I own the copyright to. He will do this at his convenience in the near future. Once he has established that you are indeed reselling copyrighted material that you do not own I have given him permission to sue you for as much money as he can extract. Have a nice day!"

140
There is a significantly different workflow for non exclusive illustrators. The successful ones have spent years figuring out where the money is. An exclusive dropping the crown would have to figure it out on their own and that takes time. I seriously doubt that IS exclusivity could even reach 1/3 of what I make as a non exclusive. Based on my RPI per agency Istock would have trouble even matching my self hosting sales income. Exclusivity would have to triple at least my RPI to do that. Then you add Clipartof SS and the rest. For me it's no contest. I do admit that I have opportunities that a newly independent contributor doesn't have. They would have to build those opportunities for themselves and that is a lot of work. So the real answer is... Yes you can replace exclusivity but it won't be fast and it won't be easy.

141
Thank you, So about $160 then. I'll have to find out if generic WP sliders and plugins work with these themes. Also what happens with the support after 12 months is very important to me because I really don't know anything about coding. I'll spend some more time on their site.
I would hate to spend $160 and find out I wasn't savvy enough.

If I feel like I'm not wasting my time I will probably try this out. I am always looking for options other than sub sites. Break even would require around 1 sale a month. I assume you feel like this is possible for you to achieve.

Does anyone else have any feedback about these options?

FWIW- I think the Symbiostock network benefits aren't necessarily working as far as referring sales but I do absolutely think they help with my SEO. Also I really like that there is a community behind me if something goes awry.

142
My information may not be right. That is how I interpreted the info on their website but I am waiting for someone to confirm my conclusions. I think you can get away with around $250 but I'm not sure what you do or don't get in that package. I assumed I would want everything so I opted for the entire package. Also I am really interested to know what happens after 12 months.

143
Ok, I'm always looking into self hosting options. From what I can tell it's $79 a year for one theme and access to support ends after the first 12 months. If I want plugins it goes to $149 and if I want the whole package it is $399 (with this one I get live support). The themes look nice and that is considerably cheaper than what I paid for my custom site.

Cathy which program did you purchase? Also since I know zero coding and just a little bit of wordpress will I be able to do this on my own? What does access to support mean and how is that different from live support? Finally looks like I'm looking at another $99 to use the sell media plugin?

So for a website that I would consider functional for me I am looking at $498 for 1 year plus hosting and domain costs?

I'm all about information and $500 for a site is relatively cheap. I'm tempted to build one just to be able to compare sales between my custom site, Symbio, and this.

How are peoples sales using this program? Illustrators if you use this please let me know what you think.
I'm genuinely interested in answers to these questions.

144
Actually I was thinking about people who later on decide they are unhappy like you did. It would be nice if the poll were dynamic to indicate what is currently happening rather than just what is happening on March 11 2014

145
Leaf is there a way to allow people to change their vote or update their votes? I thought there was but I can't find it.

146
I think this is what people really are interested in but the threads turn into bickering and fighting. I'm guilty of that myself. For this thread however if we could try to keep it focused on the poll results it would be much more productive. There are other threads for the bickering and comments. Please do your best to refrain and keep this one on topic. Thanks

147
Actually I think the negatives outnumber the positives about 10 to 1. Especially if you count the bug threads. That is a bit misleading though because the people who are happy tend to stay quiet. It is the people who need help or that are frustrated that tend to speak up. Nature of the beast I guess.

148
Cathy is right about the negative stories being valuable as well. There are a lot of them and we can all learn from them too. Many people are struggling with sales. There is no denying it. I will say it again. Symbiostock is not a good fit for many people for a variety of reasons. Will it work for you? Maybe, maybe not. At least Cathy gave it a try. It didn't work for her. It does work for me. FWIW I charge 14.75 for a vector and I get multiple sales a week. Other people might get one huge sale a month. Each site is unique. You just need to figure it out on your own.

149
I'm not sure how many images you have right now but you are about due. Your original site might actually be working against you. That one has been around for a while and probably the gravity of that site is scooping up your organic search sales that would otherwise be coming to your Symbiostock site. Not many symbio site owners (probably none) have an existing site with 20K images already indexed. In my case symbio has equaled my custom site in sales. It took about 8 months but they are now about neck and neck. So in essence I have doubled my personal sales by adding a symbio site.

150
Well I was going to leave this one alone but it seems like I have become the voice for Symbiostock. At least I am one of the ones with decent sales willing to speak up. My pms have exploded about this thread but none of these other guys are willing to show up on everyones radar. So here it goes. Illustrators typically do much better than photographers. It seems like it takes around 90-120 days for people to start seeing sales. Also if you just upload the same images as the micros and don't do any SEO or customization of your titles and content it will probably take longer. I put a lot of work into my sites and yes I see regular sales. Others are seeing regular sales too, including one person who just made a $700 custom request sale. There are at least 3 people besides me who average over 20 sales a month and one guy just told me his sales are in the 60-80 per month range. There are 170+ sites but only around 30 site owners communicate in the forums at all. Of these 30 I would guess around 5 have consistent sales.

If you are thinking about joining I would say this. Don't.... unless you actually intend to spend some time on your site and are really interested in a long term alternative to micro sites. Symbiostock is not a get rich quick type of thing. It is work but you are also in control and the payout is pretty good when sales do come.

You get what you put in. If you are looking for another place to dump your photos you are likely to be very disappointed. Cascoly does have a coop program started where he will handle almost all of this brain damage for you. I would recommend everyone should at least explore this program to determine if it is an option you might like.

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