RPI has been steadily going down since 2007, now hovering just above $1.

As a warning to anyone new, by the time you get up to a large portfolio it would have dropped again, so bear that in mind in your calculations. For me it has pretty much halved every 2 years in recent times.

I think that depreciation is pretty much in line with what SS accidentally gave away with some of their figures a while back. It turned out collection growth has been far outstripping payment/ market growth the last several years.

You sure that's not $1 per year per photo? If that's $1 per month that's excellent performance. But a very good point about the halving affect which is why I posted the example of RPIPM decreasing year over year.

This is for micro photos only. Don't include macro, POD/print, video, illustration or non-photo stats.

What is Return Per Image Per Month? It's the calculation of how much you earn for each image you have per month. This can be measured for each micro site or all sites combined. For this poll use all sites combined. This ins't scientific but just a loose figure of where you're at. I realize you may have 1,000 images at SS and 500 at IS and your income may vary from $100 to $500 each month. Loose average of the two combined is fine and using the past year stats should be fine. 

Why is RPIPM helpful? Because if you keep track of it month-to-month or year-over-year it can give you trending of how each site is performing or how you're performing overall. So if in 2015 your RPIPM was .10 cents, 2016 was .15 cents, 2017 is 20 cents, it's likely 2018 will be 25 cents if your efforts have been consistent. If it was instead .15, .10, .05 good chances are it will be around .02/.03 for 2018. So in other words, is the trending showing you growth or that you're wasting your time? To some of you who have been here a while I know RPIPM doesn't matter. For me it has been really helpful it knowing where to focus my time. It can also help newer people answer questions like "is this worth my time" or "can I make a living at this?".

Calculation examples

You earn $1,000 USD on average per month across all micro sites and have an average of 1,000 images with all of them.
$1,000 divided by 1,000 images = $1 RPIPM

You earn $100 USD on average per month across all micro sites and have an average of 1,000 images with all of them.
$100 divided by 1,000 images = $.10 RPIPM

So let's say the poll shows that most people earn $.25 cents RPIPM. If you need to earn $60,000 to quit your day job you could use the $.25 cents RPIPM to calculate that you'd probably need around 20,000 images. 20,000 images x .25 RPIPM = $5,000 Per Month x 12 = $60,000 Per Year. You can then use that to calculate how long it would take you to get there. If you can get 10,000 images accepted per year it would take two years. If you can 1,000 images accepted per year it would take 20 years.

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on October 18, 2017, 06:07

If you're doing fine art I'd stay clear of micro. If you're selling an 8x12 print for say $40 and have that same image on micro, or even similar images that you decided weren't good enough, you'd be competing against yourself and devaluing your work. A buyer will do price shopping, buy your image $1 on micro and print the 8x12 at walmart for a couple dollars. While you may have made 30 cents you lost quite a bit more from them not buying the actual print from you. I have a clear dividing line with my work. Travel/Landscape I sell at consistent higher RM pricing. All other stuff like apples on white and phone shots of my breakfast go to micro.

Photoshelter is a portfolio site to showcase your work. They do zero marketing so you need to bring buyers to your site. I have a Photoshelter site with RM and self fulfilled print pricing. They also take a commission depending on your plan which I think is between 8-12%. You may want to also check into Photodeck.

If you're a good marketer with SEO and sales skills there's opportunity for selling at higher dollar amounts.

ETA: Just saw your link. You have some nice work but it's all over the place. I'd suggest becoming known for a specific subject so that you can attract repeat corporate buyers who have more money and will come back to you every time they need that subject. Are you Kevin the [landscape, animal, wedding, etc] photographer?

Thanks for the great advice Paulie !  That is exactly the way I think I'm going to go, now I just have to whittle down which exact sites I'm going to use.

I realise my work is 'varied' to say the least   Not sure how I can get away from that TBH. My daughter (who is a pro blogger & instagram whatever, in fashion and luxury travel) gave me the same advice you have in that regard.

Unfortunately I realise my days for trekking / mountains may only have a few years remaining (knees are on their way out) so I'm determined to get in as many big hikes as I can and my prime loves, photographically speaking, are 'big scenes'.  However because I'm often travelling in exciting countries, and live in China, there are also so many other subjects I enjoy shooting, and that people seem to enjoy viewing. I shoot less bird/animal photography now (can't haul all that gear, big lenses, around any more) and in future most of my work will be big 'scapes (Tibet and Greenland next year), the enviroments and the people that live in those regions ..... plus long exposure photography (really long, from a few seconds up to minutes).

n.b. Not that Kevin .. I don't shoot weddings

Many thanks !
Cheers
Kevin

I'm not too far behind you age-wise so I get it. I'm in the same situation trying to get in as many shots as I can while my body says I can.

I also enjoy shooting other things than landscapes but I mostly keep those on my computer for my own enjoyment or post them to my personal social media accounts to keep business and personal stuff separate.

Regarding sites:

Micro: I use Shutterstock, Fotolia, and Istock. The rest arent worth the time IMO.
Macro: Can't recommend anything here. Places like Getty and Alamy have had prices and commissions drop to where they're not much different than micro these days.
Personal Site: I use both Photodeck and Photoshelter and prefer Photodeck.
Fine Art: This is a tough call because some people do great on some sites and on others sell nothing, and vice versa. I'd suggest experimenting with RedBubble, Zazzle, CafePress, FineArtAmerica, Etsy, etc. The problem with these is they all have different price structures so you need to find one where you get sales and can also keep consistent pricing to match your prices on your personal site and elsewhere.

If you're doing fine art I'd stay clear of micro. If you're selling an 8x12 print for say $40 and have that same image on micro, or even similar images that you decided weren't good enough, you'd be competing against yourself and devaluing your work. A buyer will do price shopping, buy your image $1 on micro and print the 8x12 at walmart for a couple dollars. While you may have made 30 cents you lost quite a bit more from them not buying the actual print from you. I have a clear dividing line with my work. Travel/Landscape I sell at consistent higher RM pricing. All other stuff like apples on white and phone shots of my breakfast go to micro.

Photoshelter is a portfolio site to showcase your work. They do zero marketing so you need to bring buyers to your site. I have a Photoshelter site with RM and self fulfilled print pricing. They also take a commission depending on your plan which I think is between 8-12%. You may want to also check into Photodeck.

If you're a good marketer with SEO and sales skills there's opportunity for selling at higher dollar amounts.

ETA: Just saw your link. You have some nice work but it's all over the place. I'd suggest becoming known for a specific subject so that you can attract repeat corporate buyers who have more money and will come back to you every time they need that subject. Are you Kevin the [landscape, animal, wedding, etc] photographer?

i do appreciate all the comments on this post, i am not that kind of person who would willingly allow for a false hope or miscalculated judgments. what i am trying to say is that you people, for sure, love photography and maybe some started doing it as a hobby like me and then loved it and enjoyed doing it. also, from what i have read so far in the forum, the vast majority are doing microstock business as a side stream income. based on that, why not just enjoy it and be a bit more tolerant to whatever this strange market brings ?!

So what if you worked your a$$ off and the market covered your mortgage every month. Then you worked twice as hard but the market only covered your car. And you work even harder and the market only covered lunch at a fast food restaurant. Would you enjoy it and be tolerant? Probably not. Like most people you'll either quit and disappear or come here to grumpystockgroup.com where misery loves company and hope things will get better.

So far this is the best September I've had all year and today is my best day in September 2017. Maybe someone should start a daily sales post.

Quote from: Silken Photography on September 01, 2017, 18:59

Twice now (and I had a tiny port on there), once in June 2016 and again today, I've received notification that a photo of mine was sold on 500px. I removed my entire portfolio from there well over a year ago now.

As I've closed my shop on the site, I have zero visibility of the sale nor any way to actually retrieve the money short of another email back'n'forth with them.

After the first sale, I emailed them and was told that this sale was via a Distributor and that they took longer to process which is why there was such a big delay. I'm struggling to imagine that there's this long a delay on this tiny sale (I made $0.90).

I don't believe 500px remove photos even after you've deleted your port. They can continue to make money but make it difficult for you to claim your share (I was eventually offered a payment after I emailed them). You lose control of these images entirely.

I originally uploaded a lot of my more "arty" less microstock photos to 500px back before they joined the microstock market. I removed them precisely because I didn't want these particular images on the microstock market. But be warned, 500px do not honour your wishes or your ownership of your photos.

A breath of fresh air in a declining industry!

Take a deep breath and stock up on plenty of Vaseline

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on August 24, 2017, 07:20

You called out Fox. Do you think CNN isn't biased? They all are.

The difference isn't bias, it's in the truth - CNN doesn't make up complete lies like they do at Fox.  Reporting what is happening, even with a bias, is not the same as making up propaganda, which is what is they do at Fox (and has been verified many times).  To equate the two is ridiculous.

Liberal news type of headline - White man kills black honor student
Conservative news type of headline -  Black man killed while assaulting white man

These both could be the same incident, the truth and based on fact. The bias is what facts are chosen to be reported or ignored. And again you keep pointing out Fox and drawing the division line. Have you not seen any of the CNN antics? Or like the news do you only choose to point out information that supports your side of the division line?

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on August 23, 2017, 20:14

Seems like Civil War #2 has already begun. Congrats on squabbling over your own versions of the truth.

I wonder who's the divisive "leader" who started it... 
And I guess you realise that the same culprit is not far from starting serious international wars, not only civil  , just to prove that he doesn't have "small hands"

I'm no fan of Trump. I was also no fan of Obama. They equally catered to their own sides which based on the almost 50/50 split of the last election this nation is clearly divided. This last election also uncovered the lying cheating mess that is both parties. We are not each other's enemies. We are just being led to believe that by the barrage of biased news, echo chamber social media, and other sources of questionable information. Wikipedia? Snopes? News blogs? Liberal CNN or Conservative Fox News? It's all bull$hit. The more people argue, the better the ratings, and the more money there is to be made at our expense. Division is big business. Carry on.

Good that Shutterstock came up with the solution for images on their site. But people can easily find and steal just about any agency image from a client who has downloaded it and used the unwatermarked version online. Until there's a better solution for tracking and enforcing licensing this is a bandaid on a leaking dam.

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on August 18, 2017, 00:35

I have some prints listed there. Just put a camera there up for bid. Seems like nonstop drama. Winning bidders want to cancel orders constantly. Product is delivered but buyer suddenly decides they need the money for something else and want to do a return. Anybody else finding Ebay a waste of time?

I was selling a $5800 Nikon 300 2.8 on Ebay and nobody wanted to bid, they only wanted to "work with me without Ebay".  When I said no, I got an instant sale.  It didn't look right and since I am a problem solver by career, I was able to determine quickly that it was a scam.  Ebay did not want to reimburse me the money I paid to list it and I had to call them and raise holy SH!T.  They finally gave me my money back and I listed it again.  Got the same thing. A bunch of people wanting to deal direct and not through Ebay or asking for special favors like sending it to a different address than what is on Ebay (FLAG).  I let the auction expire and haven't used Ebay since.

Yeah I've had stuff like that too. Same type of stuff with Craigslist. I don't sell on Ebay often but I'd say about a third of the time there's some problem to deal with.

Winning bidder wants to cancel right after they win. And then you to go through the cancel process and have to relist for another week.

Or they want to do a return because they impulse bid and really needed the money for something else. And even though the listing says no returns you know if you don't do a return they'll leave you a bad review. Oh yeah, and you can no longer leave bad reviews for buyers. Only "Positive, Report Buyer, and Leave Feedback Later".

Or they include a message requiring some unrealistic delivery date like in two days where I'd need to make magic happen, charge them an extra $75, and then rush to UPS five minutes before they close.

Just seems like a lot of Ebay buyers are a PITA to where I need to include a hundred lines of disclaimers and terms "No returns, No cancellations, No address changes, No exchanges, No stupid bidders, etc.

I have some prints listed there. Just put a camera there up for bid. Seems like nonstop drama. Winning bidders want to cancel orders constantly. Product is delivered but buyer suddenly decides they need the money for something else and want to do a return. Anybody else finding Ebay a waste of time?

Today is my best day ever for August 2017 so far