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Author Topic: Approached by a client - need advice  (Read 19458 times)

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« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2017, 08:23 »
+1
Mara, I had a potential customer approach me like this. All of the above discussion points are valid considerations on pricing. However, with a direct deal you can also offer customized image processing (crops, retouching, adjustments, noise reduction for large use) specifically for the customers uses. The customization will help to keep pricing at least near the top of the agency pricing, if not higher. In my case the images were similar to clip art but, with negotiation discussions, they desired all the same special backgrounds. I already had Photoshop separate layers and Actions close to what was needed. So it was fairly easy edits that would have been very hard for them. If you can bring more image value to them then pricing is a bit less limited.

In my case, the images were to be used for resale as wall art. So, extended licences applied via microstock and helped raise the pricing limits. I was quite willing to offer my easy updates in exchange for 100% commissions. If you can't work this angle of money vs time and delivery, then let them buy from microstock (I've played that game as well). When making a direct transaction you will have to be in charge of the billing, receipts, and tax calculations. Assuming the deal is not a scam of some sort, you still have time involved with making the deal and getting it carried through to completion.

One of the signs of a scam is very easy price negotiations that end in a value higher than normal. Then you receive a check for more than the agreed amount and have instructions to send some of the money on to third party (for expenses or something). The customer check eventually bounces after you have forwarded good money from your wallet. You are left with a lighter wallet and maybe loss of images (image copies).


« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2017, 08:31 »
0
Mara, I had a potential customer approach me like this. All of the above discussion points are valid considerations on pricing. However, with a direct deal you can also offer customized image processing (crops, retouching, adjustments, noise reduction for large use) specifically for the customers uses. The customization will help to keep pricing at least near the top of the agency pricing, if not higher. In my case the images were similar to clip art but, with negotiation discussions, they desired all the same special backgrounds. I already had Photoshop separate layers and Actions close to what was needed. So it was fairly easy edits that would have been very hard for them. If you can bring more image value to them then pricing is a bit less limited.

In my case, the images were to be used for resale as wall art. So, extended licences applied via microstock and helped raise the pricing limits. I was quite willing to offer my easy updates in exchange for 100% commissions. If you can't work this angle of money vs time and delivery, then let them buy from microstock (I've played that game as well). When making a direct transaction you will have to be in charge of the billing, receipts, and tax calculations. Assuming the deal is not a scam of some sort, you still have time involved with making the deal and getting it carried through to completion.

One of the signs of a scam is very easy price negotiations that end in a value higher than normal. Then you receive a check for more than the agreed amount and have instructions to send some of the money on to third party (for expenses or something). The customer check eventually bounces after you have forwarded good money from your wallet. You are left with a lighter wallet and maybe loss of images (image copies).

That was my very first thought based on the OP post.  If they already know about these images being available for cheap on SS, they are either trying to get their hands on the images an easier way or are just * cheap...trying to peel a few cents off the total price.  I would offer a price of $10 an image. If they don't take it send then to your "agency".

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2017, 08:32 »
+1
As discussed, unless they've already mentioned some specific reason why they want to license directly, like licensing terms... they're probably just looking to save a bit of money. If it was me, I'd charge them 50% between how much I would get if they bought them through 123RF... and how much it would cost them if they bought them from me at 123RF prices.

So, not sure of the 123RF commission structure, but if they sell an image for $5 and you get $2.50... I'd charge them $3.75

If they still question that price then they're not really in a position to argue... you're both meeting in the middle. You could charge more, and they might pay it... but all things considered, it looks like they're looking for a bargain and if they're looking for a bargain, then they might just keep contacting other contributors, rather than bite the bullet and buy your images through 123RF. 

« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2017, 08:44 »
0
Mara, I had a potential customer approach me like this. All of the above discussion points are valid considerations on pricing. However, with a direct deal you can also offer customized image processing (crops, retouching, adjustments, noise reduction for large use) specifically for the customers uses. The customization will help to keep pricing at least near the top of the agency pricing, if not higher. In my case the images were similar to clip art but, with negotiation discussions, they desired all the same special backgrounds. I already had Photoshop separate layers and Actions close to what was needed. So it was fairly easy edits that would have been very hard for them. If you can bring more image value to them then pricing is a bit less limited.

In my case, the images were to be used for resale as wall art. So, extended licences applied via microstock and helped raise the pricing limits. I was quite willing to offer my easy updates in exchange for 100% commissions. If you can't work this angle of money vs time and delivery, then let them buy from microstock (I've played that game as well). When making a direct transaction you will have to be in charge of the billing, receipts, and tax calculations. Assuming the deal is not a scam of some sort, you still have time involved with making the deal and getting it carried through to completion.

One of the signs of a scam is very easy price negotiations that end in a value higher than normal. Then you receive a check for more than the agreed amount and have instructions to send some of the money on to third party (for expenses or something). The customer check eventually bounces after you have forwarded good money from your wallet. You are left with a lighter wallet and maybe loss of images (image copies).

hi Stan,

I am surely not very comfortable to have such deals. I think I would demand paypal payment before I deliver the images. Although I heard there are paypal frauds as well. I guess there is never 100% certainty.
I think there is no reselling involved here.
Do you have maybe an example of blank licensing contract?

« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2017, 08:46 »
0
I also don't intend to offer single subscription prices.
And team subscriptions are much more expensive and I think there are only yearly deals, so I believe they want to get a deal because of that.

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2017, 08:48 »
0
Quote
I also don't intend to offer single subscription prices.
And team subscriptions are much more expensive and I think there are only yearly deals, so I believe they want to get a deal because of that.

Would you be willing to pull your images from Microstock altogether in the hope of negotiating a more interesting deal with this potential client?

That's the thing about Microstock, once you stick your images on there, there's little negotiating room left. That's why I refuse to put my premium images on there since there's no incentive for clients to negotiate directly and if they do how much more can you offer?!!

« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2017, 09:58 »
0
[snip]
That's the thing about Microstock, once you stick your images on there, there's little negotiating room left. That's why I refuse to put my premium images on there since there's no incentive for clients to negotiate directly and if they do how much more can you offer?!!
That certainly is a dilemma. Microstock has given me exposure where those outside contacts have returned a decent pay. I figure I would have never gotten that outside exposure without being on microstock. Microstock has also given me inquiries where the client was hard topped at the microstock price. Those would disappear at the point I said I can't even amortize my Email and negotiation time across the payment structure at their (microstock) price point.

Part of microstock selling is to let the agent cover all of the transaction time and costs. Doing sales via automated web site reduces human overhead and helps with the price structure (or the race to the bottom - depending on your view).

Asking a client for "roughly what budget do we need to work within" can help separate the out the low payers - if they will answer. This needs to be a back and forth discussion, voice if possible. More than about 2 Emails and the customer will drop off. So have your costs and negotiation points decided well up front.

« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2017, 10:22 »
+1
Quote
I also don't intend to offer single subscription prices.
And team subscriptions are much more expensive and I think there are only yearly deals, so I believe they want to get a deal because of that.

Would you be willing to pull your images from Microstock altogether in the hope of negotiating a more interesting deal with this potential client?

That's the thing about Microstock, once you stick your images on there, there's little negotiating room left. That's why I refuse to put my premium images on there since there's no incentive for clients to negotiate directly and if they do how much more can you offer?!!

Unfortunately I think that ship has sailed since that images on Microstock are already downloaded many times and  I am not sure if there would be a purpose of pulling them out now.
Besides, this client doesn't want an exclusive licnse nor the rights to image. I presume they just want a better deal :)

« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2017, 10:25 »
0
[snip]
That's the thing about Microstock, once you stick your images on there, there's little negotiating room left. That's why I refuse to put my premium images on there since there's no incentive for clients to negotiate directly and if they do how much more can you offer?!!
That certainly is a dilemma. Microstock has given me exposure where those outside contacts have returned a decent pay. I figure I would have never gotten that outside exposure without being on microstock. Microstock has also given me inquiries where the client was hard topped at the microstock price. Those would disappear at the point I said I can't even amortize my Email and negotiation time across the payment structure at their (microstock) price point.

Part of microstock selling is to let the agent cover all of the transaction time and costs. Doing sales via automated web site reduces human overhead and helps with the price structure (or the race to the bottom - depending on your view).

Asking a client for "roughly what budget do we need to work within" can help separate the out the low payers - if they will answer. This needs to be a back and forth discussion, voice if possible. More than about 2 Emails and the customer will drop off. So have your costs and negotiation points decided well up front.

yes, microstock sure has its good sides. Although, lately it has been tougher and tougher and I am just a small fish in a pond. I have been thinking of selling on my own but I am not sure since my portfolio is not very big and I don't have a large audience. This is interesting, to ask them about the budget. But I think they might want to see the prices out of microstock and I am not sure they would be the first to say the price.

Shelma1

« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2017, 10:31 »
+1
If they're asking to get the images from you they don't have a subscription. They have no idea how much your royalty is vs. how much the agency keeps. Ask them how they found you. Offer them a price equal to what that agency would ask for individual sales. If they ask if you could give them a discount ask what they were thinking. Try to get as close as you can to the top price.

FORGET about asking for just over your royalty because that's what you usually get. They don't know that.

Keep in mind that one of the reasons you're licensing through agencies is convenience. You don't have to go through back and forth emailing clients. You don't have to gather all the files up and send them over. The agency does all that. So you need to be compensated for your time.

« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2017, 10:59 »
+2
If they're asking to get the images from you they don't have a subscription. They have no idea how much your royalty is vs. how much the agency keeps. Ask them how they found you. Offer them a price equal to what that agency would ask for individual sales. If they ask if you could give them a discount ask what they were thinking. Try to get as close as you can to the top price.

FORGET about asking for just over your royalty because that's what you usually get. They don't know that.

Keep in mind that one of the reasons you're licensing through agencies is convenience. You don't have to go through back and forth emailing clients. You don't have to gather all the files up and send them over. The agency does all that. So you need to be compensated for your time.

hi Shelma,

yes, i think that also. I have no intention to charge them my royalty amount.
And that is surely more work for me to go through the process without the agency.

« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2017, 11:38 »
+2
A flashdrive of images has quite a lot of value in itself.  It would take forever to download and organize 250 photos, especially if there's daily limits etc.  But then - that puts more work on your side also.

« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2017, 17:13 »
+1
[snip]

hi Stan,

I am surely not very comfortable to have such deals. I think I would demand paypal payment before I deliver the images. Although I heard there are paypal frauds as well. I guess there is never 100% certainty.
I think there is no reselling involved here.
Do you have maybe an example of blank licensing contract?
I am not a lawyer. I have not had this license reviewed by a lawyer. I'm sure there are things that could be picked apart. Adjust the wording to match the terms and conditions of your specific agreement.
======
COPYRIGHT and LICENSE

All photos in this CD/DVD/FOLDER/COLLECTION are Copyright 2017 [PHOTOGRAPHER], All Rights Reserved. Exceptions are noted below.  All rights not specifically granted herein remain with the photographer. This is a Rights Managed Photograph License allowing for specific photo uses.


Permissions granted below shall not exceed a period of _20_ years, beginning at the date indicated with the signature below, and contingent upon the photographer receiving full payments as agreed.


Permission is granted to the _[BUYER COMPANY]_, as represented by _[BUYER NAME]_, for photos to be used for commercial and/or noncommercial use. Uses shall be defined to include: printed flyers, printed brochures, printed advertisements, printed news articles, printed editorial articles, motion video advertisements, motion video news articles, motion video editorial articles, Internet electronic advertisements, Internet electronic news articles, Internet electronic editorial articles, and _[BUYER COMPANY]_ Internet Web Sites. 

Photographs may be adjusted, altered, or modified as derivative works for the aforementioned uses.

Photo credit is requested, but not required, for images displayed, and shall be of a form similar to Photo Copyright [PHOTOGRAPHER], All Rights Reserved.


Permission is granted to companies engaged in the business of printing, copying, or otherwise replicating such images, at the request of the _BUYER COMPANY_ to perform the requested services, with or without an exchange of valuable consideration for their services.  The use of the images by such company, other than required for the direct services requested by the image holder, is strictly prohibited.


Notice: The use of the photos in return for money or any other valuable consideration is strictly prohibited.  The photographer retains the right to license images to third parties.


Notice: No Model Releases are available from the photographer for any people represented in the provided photos.


Notice: No Property Releases, nor Trademark Releases, nor Event Releases, are available from the photographer for any equipment, nor location, nor event, nor company logos, nor any intellectual property rights, represented in the provided photos.


Description of this Collection Image Content:
Image File Names, Descriptions: 
   xxxxxxx.jpg   description
   xxxxxxx.jpg   description
   xxxxxxx.jpg   description

[PHOTOGRAPHER], Photographer
[ADDRESS]
[CITY, STATE, COUNTRY, POSTAL CODE]

[EMAIL]
[TELEPHONE]


Signature: ___________________________      Date: _______________


« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2017, 06:05 »
0
thanks a lot Stan :)

Semmick Photo

« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2017, 09:32 »
+2
The customer can get 350 images for 169 dollar on Shutterstock, so trying to get 3, 4, 5, 10, dollar per image is not going to work. Anything over 169 dollar and the client will just go to Shutterstock, IMO.

« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2017, 10:54 »
0
better ask client what are their estimated budget.

Semmick Photo

« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2017, 06:29 »
+1
better ask client what are their estimated budget.
The answer will be 100 dollar even though they have a 1000 to burn.

« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2017, 20:59 »
+1
better ask client what are their estimated budget.
The answer will be 100 dollar even though they have a 1000 $10,000 to burn.

 ;D


 

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