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Author Topic: Approached by a client - need advice  (Read 19457 times)

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« on: September 27, 2017, 04:01 »
0
hi everyone!

I have been approached by a client directly who asks me to license them 250 images of mine, non  exclusively. They would only use my photos in their company. It is not for reselling.
They found me on RF microstock agency site,  so it is not a RM deal. They obviously know the RF prices.
I think they wouldn't need exclusive licence for that.
Do you have some experience with this and how much would you ask for it?
Also do you know of some licensing contract or something which I could use for this?

thanks :)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 04:14 by mara »


Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 05:06 »
0
Hi and good morning. Let's try to break this down as there's a lot to work with here:

Quote
They found me on RF microstock agency site,  so it is not a RM deal.


Ok, for whatever reason they think it's cheaper to license directly with you than going through the Agency. This obviously works in your favour as you'll keep all commissions.

I don't see the connection between them finding you in RF microstock so it can't be a RM deal. Why not? They seem to be quite clear about what the purpose of those images is, so you may draft a RM license agreement. Plus, you're going direct so there's no conflict (I believe) in licensing it RM directly if it's on microstock as RF - need to check the contributor agreement with the Microstock agency you're signed up to and have those images. If they have such restrictions, consider pulling those images out altogether if you believe you'll make more from this deal than those quarters with subs at such agencies.

RM could be more interesting for you in this case as you can limit the usage for a time period and they would have to go back to you to renew the agreement if they wish to extend. There's also restrictions on usage (if it's for a website OK but if they want to make brochures it may not be possible). The client would most likely want RF though. Perhaps offer both options.   

Quote
Do you have some experience with this and how much would you ask for it?


I don't have such experience licensing directly (which I would love to do), although I can share on the second question.

Getty Images has a handy tool for pricing an RM image:

http://www.gettyimages.ca/purchase/price-calculator/sb10069475ab-001

I went ahead and put together some generic information and it came up with a huge sum of 790 euros which Getty would charge (see attached). If you're at Getty you would receive 30% (I believe), so that's 237. That's pretty steep if they're available on Micros as RF which tends to be an argument which putting some premium images on micros is shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to this sort of situation.

I couldn't find a calculator for pricing RF images but in any case the calculation is much simpler.

For RF (one payment, multiple usages), it's more simple and you can negotiate a bundle package. Something along the lines of 250 images for $1,250 ($5 per image). I'm afraid it may prove difficult to negotiate higher than that. Look forward to what others have to say on this.

Quote
Also do you know of some licensing contract or something which I could use for this?


Here's a good place to get started.

https://www.diyphotography.net/photo-licensing-look-basics/

Good luck!

Alex

« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 07:21 by Brasilnut »

« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 06:15 »
+2
I'm not sure why they just wouldn't use the agency if you already had them on sale RF I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to pay "inflated" RM prices. Seems an odd request to me.

« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 07:02 »
0
I'm not sure why they just wouldn't use the agency if you already had them on sale RF I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to pay "inflated" RM prices. Seems an odd request to me.

yes, i thought that as well.
If I am not cheaper than the site they found me , I think they will but there

niktol

« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 07:02 »
+1

For RF (one payment, multiple usages), it's more simple and you can negotiate a bundle package. Something along the lines of 250 images for $1,250 ($50 per image). I'm afraid it may prove difficult to negotiate higher than that. Look forward to what others have to say on this.



That's $5 per image.

« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 07:06 »
0
thank you very much Alex for your thorough answer.

"For RF (one payment, multiple usages), it's more simple and you can negotiate a bundle package. Something along the lines of 250 images for $1,250 ($50 per image). I'm afraid it may prove difficult to negotiate higher than that. Look forward to what others have to say on this. "

I also thought of something like that. like 5-7$ per one image.
I don't believe they would go with Getty RM prices per one image.
I think they want bulk images prices and they want it cheaper than SS or other sites.
We didn't discuss image resolution but I am not sure if there is a point to do that.



« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 07:09 »
+1
As I read it for example they could licence  350 images from SS for 119 (uk currency) so your "bid" would probably need to be pitched below that I guess.

niktol

« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 07:09 »
0
thank you very much Alex for your thorough answer.

"For RF (one payment, multiple usages), it's more simple and you can negotiate a bundle package. Something along the lines of 250 images for $1,250 ($50 per image). I'm afraid it may prove difficult to negotiate higher than that. Look forward to what others have to say on this. "

I also thought of something like that. like 5-7$ per one image.
I don't believe they would go with Getty RM prices per one image.
I think they want bulk images prices and they want it cheaper than SS or other sites.
We didn't discuss image resolution but I am not sure if there is a point to do that.

Very much depends on the kind of license they want. Before they say what they want from these images, it's practically impossible to give even the ballpark.

« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2017, 07:12 »
0
As I read it for example they could licence  350 images from SS for 119 (uk currency) so your "bid" would probably need to be pitched below that I guess.

i think that maybe counts if they have subscription. on demand the prices are higher

« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 07:14 »
0
As I read it for example they could licence  350 images from SS for 119 (uk currency) so your "bid" would probably need to be pitched below that I guess.

they want to use it in their software. for displaying. so i think it is a regular licence

« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2017, 07:14 »
0

For RF (one payment, multiple usages), it's more simple and you can negotiate a bundle package. Something along the lines of 250 images for $1,250 ($50 per image). I'm afraid it may prove difficult to negotiate higher than that. Look forward to what others have to say on this.



That's $5 per image.
and still three times the going rate of RF images....good luck with that one!

« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2017, 07:15 »
0
As I read it for example they could licence  350 images from SS for 119 (uk currency) so your "bid" would probably need to be pitched below that I guess.

they want to use it in their software. for displaying. so i think it is a regular licence
Yes thats a standard license https://www.shutterstock.com/subscribe?clicksrc=header

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2017, 07:16 »
0
Getty Images has a handy tool for pricing an RM image:
http://www.gettyimages.ca/purchase/price-calculator/sb10069475ab-001

I went ahead and put together some generic information and it came up with a huge sum of 790 euros which Getty would charge (see attached). If you're at Getty you would receive 30% (I believe), so that's 237. That's pretty steep if they're available on Micros as RF which tends to be an argument which putting some premium images on micros is shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to this sort of situation.


Like Alamy, the price on the 'tool' on Getty means little in reality, and someone buying 250 images would get a discount, not to mention all the discount codes which they offer regularly. Many sellers on Getty get 20%, though some still get 30%

I'm imagining the person was thinking of a 'benefit you and me' deal.
So for example, if they would have to spend $250 to get 250 images (number pulled out of thin air) and the tog gets 30% (ditto), you'd get $75. So they're probably hoping you're going to charge them $100. You're still getting more for the same sales, and they're saving money. In this hypothetical scenario, you could try anything less than $250 - unless you see they'd need to buy extended/enhanced licenses for their proposed uses at the cheapest agency you sell your files on. (Added: I see you've estabished that a standard licence would apply.)

They won't pay you more than they'd pay on your cheapest agency, and certainly not more for less usage and you've explained that they don't want any sort of exclusivity, so why would they pay higher RM prices? Arguably non-exclusive RM should be cheaper than RF.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 07:36 by ShadySue »

« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2017, 07:23 »
0
yes but since it is a company, i am not sure a single monthly subscription would work for them.
If they need some sort of custom account than I think the price is not what they can get in such a subscription.

« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2017, 07:24 »
0
As I read it for example they could licence  350 images from SS for 119 (uk currency) so your "bid" would probably need to be pitched below that I guess.

i think that maybe counts if they have subscription. on demand the prices are higher
I think you can take out a subscription for one month. The OD is useful for those who want a small number of images over a long period.

« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2017, 07:29 »
0

[/quote]

i think that maybe counts if they have subscription. on demand the prices are higher
[/quote] I think you can take out a subscription for one month. The OD is useful for those who want a small number of images over a long period.
[/quote]

i don't think a single subscription can work for this.
And other subscriptions are much more expensive

« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2017, 07:30 »
0
yes but since it is a company, i am not sure a single monthly subscription would work for them.
If they need some sort of custom account than I think the price is not what they can get in such a subscription.
Depends how many people are downloading the images....getting complex but I don't think 100-200 is the wrong "Ball Park"

« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2017, 07:31 »
0
yes but since it is a company, i am not sure a single monthly subscription would work for them.
If they need some sort of custom account than I think the price is not what they can get in such a subscription.
Depends how many people are downloading the images....getting complex but I don't think 100-200 is the wrong "Ball Park"

i don't think it is only about downloading but using of images in a project too
thanks :)

niktol

« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2017, 07:32 »
0
I'd ask specifics on budget/use before speculations. In the past I had some very interesting responses, including the one that could make me vulnerable to a serious litigation. It wasn't typical at all, but had me scratching my head.

« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2017, 07:34 »
0
Another way of looking at it is SS pay out about 30% of their income to contributors at 38C for RF subs That means they are getting about $1.20 per RF image

« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2017, 07:36 »
0
.

« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2017, 07:42 »
0
Another way of looking at it is SS pay out about 30% of their income to contributors at 38C for RF subs That means they are getting about $1.20 per RF image

hm, i don't know.  don't think they would contact me if that would be their subscription and price per image.
thank you :)

« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2017, 07:46 »
+2
Let us know how it turns out...hope you get a good result

« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2017, 07:58 »
0
Let us know how it turns out...hope you get a good result

thanks :)

Semmick Photo

« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2017, 08:04 »
0
Another way of looking at it is SS pay out about 30% of their income to contributors at 38C for RF subs That means they are getting about $1.20 per RF image
Subs are not that much, SS makes a loss on subs if every client downloads their allowance. But that doesn't happen so SS makes a profit.

So the OP client might be looking for a cheaper price directly from the artist which in this case looks like something like this

If the client buys directly from SS > 350 Images $169/month = $48 cent per image. Which is more than the $38 cent the OP might get. But 100 images more than the client needs.

So I would offer the images for 250 * $50 cent = $125 dollar. Save the client $44 dollar and the OP gets $30 dollar more. Win win.


 

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