Author Topic: Creating One Agency to Represent us All (Read 18962 times)

cr8tivguy · « **on:** October 18, 2012, 15:28 »

I'd like to see One Agency that could represent us all on our own websites. Is there anyone working on something like this? Listed below is a great idea by: cidepix

Quoted in another Forum here!

"There won't be a wake up call for the agencies unless someone makes a site where all artists can submit "their sites" and integrate it in the search so it functions as a huge stock photo search engine that when you click on a photo, you are redirected to that artist's website..

This site would have to be free to be any different from the agencies.. In fact this site must be built by us, contributors and when popular enough it will destroy the middle man..

Everybody will earn as much as their own potential and there will be no fees... artists will only pay an annual amount so the website can survive.. nothing more.. the more artists there are, the less fee to be paid.. probably only as much as pennies and cents

Instead of a contributors union like we discussed many times in the past, this is the only long term solution I can see.."

Brilliant Idea... I'm all for it!!!

microstockphoto.co.uk · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2012, 15:55 »

Photoshelter is the most similar thing existing.
Not exactly the same, since "sites" are hosted on their server, but still quite customizable.
And it's not free but price is reasonable. There's also a fee, but it's very low.
The look is good, it has a unified search engine.

Everything perfect except... it's not getting sales.
Maybe promotion is what's missing?

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2012, 16:14 »

Yes I agree, about Photoshelter. I've contacted them and they aren't interested in providing such service as of now. I'd love someone to make an agency for Artist by Artist so we can retain all of our hard earned money. There's got to be a way to have all of our individual sites linked together via search engine, under one website.

leaf · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2012, 16:32 »

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 18, 2012, 16:14

Yes I agree, about Photoshelter. I've contacted them and they aren't interested in providing such service as of now. I'd love someone to make an agency for Artist by Artist so we can retain all of our hard earned money. There's got to be a way to have all of our individual sites linked together via search engine, under one website.

what sort of service? They provide a service where you can join X number of photographer portfolios into one collective 'agency' and each artist can still sell privately. Isn't that what you are thinking?

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2012, 16:46 »

Yes something like that!
I'd like to see a REVOLT with all of us standing up against the Agencies that take upwards to 80% of our money!!!
Really it's us that own our images, and it's up to us to take back control. So what I'm hoping for would be a big exit from all the agencies, into one collective, where we all share in the advertising expenses, and of running the site.

It can be done, if we all stand together. I know that's almost impossible, but why can't we?

cidepix · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2012, 17:12 »

Quote from: microstockphoto.co.uk on October 18, 2012, 15:55

Photoshelter is the most similar thing existing.
Not exactly the same, since "sites" are hosted on their server, but still quite customizable.
And it's not free but price is reasonable. There's also a fee, but it's very low.
The look is good, it has a unified search engine.

Everything perfect except... it's not getting sales.
Maybe promotion is what's missing?

First of all; @ cr8tivguy,

glad you liked my idea and started a thread about it.. I didn't start a thread on purpose because I thought if it's really a good idea someone will see it and make a thread about it..

Don't like to brag about it but I honestly think it's the only way to revolutionize the industry

ps: maybe the title should be edited to say: Creating a universal search engine for our personal photo/vector stores

and @ microstockphoto.co.uk

what I had in mind is nothing like photoshelter.. This site will not store anything on it's servers.. It will only act as a search engine.. We only need to integrate our sites into this search engine so that it can see our photos from all of our personal stores/sites..

similar to how the fotolia affiliates integrate fotolia images on their sites..

If this is done properly it will be a big hit among customers because they will now have a search engine that discards the middlemen, hence lowering the prices (in most cases)

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2012, 17:38 »

It wouldn't really be a big deal. Just come up with a standardized XML format for a dump of your database that gets picked up every night by the central engine site.

Hard part is the sort. You're stuck with 'random' and 'newest'. Maybe one based on smart click thrus. You can only base the sort on the data the engine collects for itself.

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 18, 2012, 17:59 »

Well Build it Sean, and I will come! LOL
It may be easy for you, but not all of us are as talented as you on the computer.
I do like PhotoShelters site, and think if there was a way to join them together, in a one search database,
that would be interesting. Again we all have to jump over board together, and launch all at once together for it
to work, and have the most impact on the market as one.

velocicarpo · « **Reply #8 on:** October 18, 2012, 18:08 »

Thank you for your post cr8tivguy! I was about to post something similar...

I hope soon someone comes up with a well thought Idea to provide a reliable solution to that.
It would really be earthshaking!

Services like Photoshelter have proven to not be a solution to that. More interesting would be to code a script like KTools, CMSaccount, a Wordpress mutation, etc. with an standardized API for a Metasite/Search engine/Crawler. IMHO this split would be a perfect balance of a commercial entity and power distribution. You own your files, you host your files, you agree to certain technical standards (API) and probably some legal standards (conformity of service) and the providing company makes money through selling the script, handling the payments for a small percentage of the transaction amount (10%?)....ahhhhh, how nice to play with the Idea

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #9 on:** October 18, 2012, 22:17 »

Check Photoshelter Virtual Agency

https://support.photoshelter.com/entries/21611532-overview-virtual-agency

Christos Georghiou · « **Reply #10 on:** October 19, 2012, 03:31 »

This is just what Leo was working on, I haven't been in touch for a couple of weeks as I've been really busy, but I'll drop him an email and let him know this threads here.
This is the initial discussion about it:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/new-project-need-feedback-or-ideas-please/msg272799/#msg272799

cidepix · « **Reply #11 on:** October 19, 2012, 04:33 »

Quote from: Christos Georghiou on October 19, 2012, 03:31

This is just what Leo was working on, I haven't been in touch for a couple of weeks as I've been really busy, but I'll drop him an email and let him know this threads here.
This is the initial discussion about it:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/new-project-need-feedback-or-ideas-please/msg272799/#msg272799

read that thread as well..

That, also, is a great idea, BUT definitely not what I was thinking about..

I am thinking of something like http://www.everystockphoto.com/ but instead of free photo libraries/sites, only artist sites will be on it..

dirkr · « **Reply #12 on:** October 19, 2012, 04:52 »

Isn't Picturengine (see discussion here) the same idea?

Anyway, with any of those ideas, the main issue will always be how to direct buyers to such a site. If you look at the expenses Shutterstock has for marketing and sales (publicly available since their IPO) you'll see that it will be hard to compete.

ClaridgeJ · « **Reply #13 on:** October 19, 2012, 04:57 »

Will cost a fortune in advertising and promotion, etc.

cidepix · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2012, 05:35 »

Quote from: dirkr on October 19, 2012, 04:52

Isn't Picturengine (see discussion here) the same idea?

Anyway, with any of those ideas, the main issue will always be how to direct buyers to such a site. If you look at the expenses Shutterstock has for marketing and sales (publicly available since their IPO) you'll see that it will be hard to compete.

@ dirkr

No, it is not..

@ ClaridgeJ

No, it won't..

--------------------------

@ ClaridgeJ, dirkr

Yes, you will get nowhere with that attitude

I regularly get sales from my own sites and I spend 0 (zero) for advertising.. The idea of ONE BIG SEARCH ENGINE that cuts out the middle-men will advertise itself..

SA · « **Reply #15 on:** October 19, 2012, 05:42 »

cidepix · « **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2012, 06:01 »

Quote from: Simon Alvinge on October 19, 2012, 05:42

I like the idéa. BUT i dont want to make the sells myself and have a private correspondence with every costomer. The costomers wont put up with waiting on each contributor to answer his request to buy something. In your idé, each of us then have to have a fully operating selling service on our own website. We cant build and maintain that machinery at every endpoint(image), its now going to be reliable for us or the costumers.

Why dont just build an agency that takes out zero profit, because its build by us, so we can have a huge cut of the price? 85 % or something like that? Is that possible?

I handle my transactions and customer service on my own sites and there is nothing difficult with that apart from spending 5 minutes per customer.. If it gets too busy, I can always hire someone to do it for me.. (+ only about %5 of buyers need assistance in my experience)

- My idea is NOT for people who don't already have their own websites..
- My idea is NOT for people who can't even handle a customer correspondence themselves..
- Who else it is NOT for: For people who say "we can't do that", "we can't do this", "that's too expensive", "that won't work"..

We know that agency idea is not going to work.. For sure.. And we know people with the attitude I am talking about will not achieve anything..

We don't need their support.. It's helpful enough if they stay out of the project so all the negative energy stays out with them..

I know many people who have their own photostores on MSG..

to name a few: leaf, cthoman, lisafx, yuri, myself and many others mentioned in this thread and others.. Obviously this idea won't work for anyone without a website..

But if the project become a reality one day, it won't be long before the likes of Ktools and CMS account start working on easy integration with this network.. Then many people without sites will start getting their own sites..

ClaridgeJ · « **Reply #17 on:** October 19, 2012, 06:44 »

Quote from: cidepix on October 19, 2012, 05:35

Quote from: dirkr on October 19, 2012, 04:52
Isn't Picturengine (see discussion here) the same idea?

Anyway, with any of those ideas, the main issue will always be how to direct buyers to such a site. If you look at the expenses Shutterstock has for marketing and sales (publicly available since their IPO) you'll see that it will be hard to compete.

@ dirkr

No, it is not..

@ ClaridgeJ

No, it won't..

--------------------------

@ ClaridgeJ, dirkr

Yes, you will get nowhere with that attitude

I regularly get sales from my own sites and I spend 0 (zero) for advertising.. The idea of ONE BIG SEARCH ENGINE that cuts out the middle-men will advertise itself..

Oh I like the idea. Who will start to administrate it?

bobbigmac · « **Reply #18 on:** October 19, 2012, 06:46 »

Some technical input since I already work in this space... I've toyed with this idea in the past (still loosely am considering something similar for picWorkflow), and everytime I've tried to come up with a way to do it, I run into the following issues:

1) Technically, regularly pulling data from and maintaining changing data, across a wide variety of sites (hundreds at-least to be financially viable) is very VERY difficult. I have a couple of tools which pull complex data from just 13 microstock sites and simple data from 40+, and both are an absolute nightmare to maintain.

2) To perform step 1, costs money, as the OP suggested 'no fees', but then states a small annual fee for upkeep, presumably thinking of server-costs, would leave little-to-no development or marketing budget.

3) Storing images would be essential, as if any source site went down, the image-buyer would still need access to thumbnails, and not-caching those would be a big error because of any inconsistencies in the source data leading to unpresentable search results.

4) The site to be viable would probably work best if it took a cut of every sale (which other similar services have done), but then the participating artists would figure "hey, people are buying my images, why am I paying 20% to this middleman service now I have the customers", thus making the need for it to be an end-to-end, not just a referral service.

5) Maintaining relationships with that many artists and supporting both userbases (artists and buyers), and that many sites, would again be a total nightmare.

6) The issue of who handles payments is tricky, the buyers want a single-point service, but the OP suggests artists handling payments.
From my research 2 things buyers want above all else are:
a) A good search engine, with a useful relevance algorithm so they spend less time searching (hard to do).
b) A fast, simple and transparent payment structure with no hoop-jumping.

My solution:

1) Photoshelter already does a good job of providing a network of sites for selling your work, if you don't like microstock, sell from your own site and spend a few bucks (on Fiverr if you're cheap, on odesk/freelancer if you have a couple of hundred to spare) on content marketing people (pickup some link builders (white-hat only) and content writers/enrichers, and actually add some web-friendly content around your images).

2) Don't like agencies that keep 80% plus of the income? Easy... Don't sell through them. Plenty of people will, but vote with your feet and the agencies will listen if enough people do so.

Not a full-service solution, but just my 2c, gave me an idea for a blog post though too, thanks

Bob

nicku · « **Reply #19 on:** October 19, 2012, 06:51 »

Very good idea to create a site that links all our smaller sites in one huge search engine.

In order this idea/agency to work smooth we must:

- Create a standard personal site or mini agency ( for all contributors ) with the same algorithm ( only the first page to differ ). i am willing to contribute at the development.

- Create a standard price structure ( this can be made by voting at the beginning and all others that join after must use the same price structure) for all personal sites.

- All pictures on the personal sites ( with the exception of the original file size ) must be standard ex: size S ( 1000 px) M (2000 px) and original.

- create a search algorithm that favor all contributors regardless of the portfolio size and nr. of downloads.

- Create some sort of review mechanism because not all contributors are making microstock wordy images , and that can/will affect the agency on long term.

And... the biggest question of the all: How buyers will pay for the photos???....

REMEMBER not all contributors are from EU , USA, Australia ,Canada or other financiary trusted countries .... what trust a buyer have to give the credit card data to a site from a problematic or untrusted country...

This will be possible only by creating a central, trusted credit/ sub purchasing center and the personal agencies will receive the commission after the sale was made using bank account, PayPal or other means or payment.

Those are only a part of the '' problems'' that WILL be encounter.... like i said I am willing to implicate financial in this project.

microstockphoto.co.uk · « **Reply #20 on:** October 19, 2012, 07:43 »

All very good practical point.

About the biggest question: ok, not all buyers are from the EU, USA, Australia, Canada but probably most of them are (partly due to our ports being mostly western-oriented). At the cost of looking a bit selfish, if we can accept PayPal and Moneybookers, who cares about rest of the world? (at least in the beginning)?

Do we really need credits? Buyers can PAYG, and once they reach a certain cost it will automatically turn into a subscription. The way the Oyster card works in London.

But I'll add another question: how do we protect ourselves from possible retaliation from traditional stock agencies which may - legitimately - not want us as their contributors anymore? Once we'll be the largest site in the world this will be a non-issue, but in the meantime...

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #21 on:** October 19, 2012, 08:06 »

I'll tell you what I started roughing out and why I posted what I did above.

A central search engine based on a data set.

The data set is populated by users uploading a standard XML file to the site. The XML includes thumbnail information from the outside site, and grabs a copy of the thumb and sizes it to a standard size and stores it.

The XML file contains information like thumb url, download page, description, license, etc. No information on price, since I hadn't delved into how to display "Available at X sizes at Y price" or "subs" or whatever.

The central site serves up images in various sorts depending on the data it has. Random. Newest. Popular (lightboxes+other data). But nothing based on external data, like sales numbers or anything.

You only need to maintain the central site, as the export of the data from various sites is all into a standard XML file. If kTools or whatever is your choice, you write an exporter to XML. I wrote one for DeepMeta data to XML.

It took me several months, and I got it working, but I always end up spending too much time on the details, and there was still a lot to do, so I dropped it. Also, it would involve paying a fee to join, to cover costs, but no money comes from referrals or sales. And if you wanted to pay, you would have all jumped all over PictureEngine (which, ironically showed up about a month and a half after I started on my idea).

So there you go.

velocicarpo · « **Reply #22 on:** October 19, 2012, 08:45 »

Quote from: dirkr on October 19, 2012, 04:52

Isn't Picturengine (see discussion here) the same idea?

Anyway, with any of those ideas, the main issue will always be how to direct buyers to such a site. If you look at the expenses Shutterstock has for marketing and sales (publicly available since their IPO) you'll see that it will be hard to compete.

Yes, picture engine is about what I am looking for, but it seems to develop too slow, but I may be wrong since I do not follow them closely enough.

velocicarpo · « **Reply #23 on:** October 19, 2012, 08:49 »

Quote from: microstockphoto.co.uk on October 19, 2012, 07:43

All very good practical point.

About the biggest question: ok, not all buyers are from the EU, USA, Australia, Canada but probably most of them are (partly due to our ports being mostly western-oriented). At the cost of looking a bit selfish, if we can accept PayPal and Moneybookers, who cares about rest of the world? (at least in the beginning)?

I do. Paypal and MB is not the world. It costs like 30 min to get a good merchant account nowadays. Why be so lazy and ignorant to the rest of the world?

cthoman · « **Reply #24 on:** October 19, 2012, 09:12 »

Quote from: sjlocke on October 19, 2012, 08:06

And if you wanted to pay, you would have all jumped all over PictureEngine (which, ironically showed up about a month and a half after I started on my idea).

I was interested in PictureEngine, but (like most of these things) they weren't currently working with illustrators.

sharpshot · « **Reply #25 on:** October 19, 2012, 09:24 »

Quote from: sjlocke on October 19, 2012, 08:06

....And if you wanted to pay, you would have all jumped all over PictureEngine....

I think some of Justin's comments put me off that. Some of us had legitimate concerns about how we were going to get our money back when the PictureEngine was indexing any site that had over a million images for free. Something didn't feel right, I was concerned that I would never get more money than I was being asked to pay out. Did you think is was that great an idea and that it was presented to us well?

I would be willing to pay for a well thought out site that had a realistic chance of making me some money.

lisafx · « **Reply #26 on:** October 19, 2012, 10:27 »

The technical details are completely beyond me, but I have always been willing to join up and also pay a membership fee if a serious site is created that will link all our existing sites together.

gostwyck · « **Reply #27 on:** October 19, 2012, 12:16 »

Quote from: bobbigmac on October 19, 2012, 06:46

Some technical input since I already work in this space... I've toyed with this idea in the past (still loosely am considering something similar for picWorkflow), and everytime I've tried to come up with a way to do it, I run into the following issues:

1) Technically, regularly pulling data from and maintaining changing data, across a wide variety of sites (hundreds at-least to be financially viable) is very VERY difficult. I have a couple of tools which pull complex data from just 13 microstock sites and simple data from 40+, and both are an absolute nightmare to maintain.

2) To perform step 1, costs money, as the OP suggested 'no fees', but then states a small annual fee for upkeep, presumably thinking of server-costs, would leave little-to-no development or marketing budget.

3) Storing images would be essential, as if any source site went down, the image-buyer would still need access to thumbnails, and not-caching those would be a big error because of any inconsistencies in the source data leading to unpresentable search results.

4) The site to be viable would probably work best if it took a cut of every sale (which other similar services have done), but then the participating artists would figure "hey, people are buying my images, why am I paying 20% to this middleman service now I have the customers", thus making the need for it to be an end-to-end, not just a referral service.

5) Maintaining relationships with that many artists and supporting both userbases (artists and buyers), and that many sites, would again be a total nightmare.

6) The issue of who handles payments is tricky, the buyers want a single-point service, but the OP suggests artists handling payments.
From my research 2 things buyers want above all else are:
a) A good search engine, with a useful relevance algorithm so they spend less time searching (hard to do).
b) A fast, simple and transparent payment structure with no hoop-jumping.

My solution:

1) Photoshelter already does a good job of providing a network of sites for selling your work, if you don't like microstock, sell from your own site and spend a few bucks (on Fiverr if you're cheap, on odesk/freelancer if you have a couple of hundred to spare) on content marketing people (pickup some link builders (white-hat only) and content writers/enrichers, and actually add some web-friendly content around your images).

2) Don't like agencies that keep 80% plus of the income? Easy... Don't sell through them. Plenty of people will, but vote with your feet and the agencies will listen if enough people do so.

Not a full-service solution, but just my 2c, gave me an idea for a blog post though too, thanks
Bob

^^^ Great post Bob. Interesting detail of the technical difficulties.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #28 on:** October 19, 2012, 13:41 »

One of the issues that I don't think has been mentioned so far (and there have certainly been some significant ones) is assuring buyers that they are licensing images that are legally safe to use. If you remember, a few years back Getty sales reps were trying to discourage buyers from purchasing from iStock with this FUD (when Getty already owned iStock, no less!).

If each artist is responsible for their own work, inevitably someone new to the game, or reckless, or just mistaken, will offer something with unreleased images or of protected property. Buyers concerned that they can't trust a purchase from this coop will buy elsewhere.

Once you start down the path of inspecting images, even just for model/property release issues, on top of handling search, payments, refunds and customer support, you've just about created an agency.

I'd love to have an alternative to the agencies, but we need to be realistic about the buyer expectations and experience. They will probably be moving from one of the existing sites to this new site and won't put up with something cobbled together of band aids and bailing wire. And whoever controls the search engine has to be someone we'd trust (so they don't start selling preferential position like supermarkets sell shelf space or Facebook is now trying to have you promote your own posts).

ClaridgeJ · « **Reply #29 on:** October 19, 2012, 13:46 »

All very well but how would this master agency attract buyers? I mean its not exactly as if all the others are closing down, is it and with some 100 million pics already floating around, we could hardly offer anything new?
Its extremely difficult to lure away buyers from already established businesses, thats why newer agencies simply cant make it no matter what they promise.
This idea is great but at the moment it seems an uphill struggle, especially with most of todays buyers who doesnt seem to care about quality at all.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 19, 2012, 14:41 »

Quote from: ClaridgeJ on October 19, 2012, 13:46

All very well but how would this master agency attract buyers? I mean its not exactly as if all the others are closing down, is it and with some 100 million pics already floating around, we could hardly offer anything new?
Its extremely difficult to lure away buyers from already established businesses, thats why newer agencies simply cant make it no matter what they promise.
This idea is great but at the moment it seems an uphill struggle, especially with most of todays buyers who doesnt seem to care about quality at all.

we don´t need to do 10k $ per day like Yuri, not on the 1st

Sean, its time to continue it, perhaps Bob (picNiche etc) can give you some help if necessary, I am all for it!

gostwyck · « **Reply #31 on:** October 19, 2012, 15:38 »

Quote from: ClaridgeJ on October 19, 2012, 13:46

All very well but how would this master agency attract buyers? I mean its not exactly as if all the others are closing down, is it and with some 100 million pics already floating around, we could hardly offer anything new?
Its extremely difficult to lure away buyers from already established businesses, thats why newer agencies simply cant make it no matter what they promise.
This idea is great but at the moment it seems an uphill struggle, especially with most of todays buyers who doesnt seem to care about quality at all.

Exactly. We know SS spend $30M+ per year on 'sales & marketing' and I'm sure that other agencies expenditure will be on the same sort of scale. How indeed would the 'master agency' attract buyers unless they have a similar war-chest of cash?

Jo Ann made a very good point about the credibility of the licenses to the buyers too. There will always be contributors who attempt to game or cheat the system, not to mention others who upload stolen content. Who is going to police all that side of things?

Poncke · « **Reply #32 on:** October 19, 2012, 16:02 »

Paypal is available in 190 countries, and handles 24 currencies. Thats almost the entire world.

cidepix · « **Reply #33 on:** October 19, 2012, 16:14 »

Quote from: gostwyck on October 19, 2012, 15:38

Jo Ann made a very good point about the credibility of the licenses to the buyers too. There will always be contributors who attempt to game or cheat the system, not to mention others who upload stolen content. Who is going to police all that side of things?

- Stolen content -if reported- can be taken down easily..

- This site WILL SAY on it's tagline: "It is a search engine only, to help you find artist sites, use them at your own discretion, Master Search Engine is not responsible for any issues"

Done!

Any contributor "who is cheating" would only hurt his/her own credibility.. not the site's..

Also, who says there has to be a legal assurance? After all, if taken to court, innocent buyer will not be punished anyway.. Only the provider of illegal content is at risk and why would the buyers worry about that?

istock is clever.. they sure know how to fool corporate people who have C.Y.A. (cover your ass) mentality

Poncke · « **Reply #34 on:** October 19, 2012, 16:30 »

Quote from: cidepix on October 19, 2012, 16:14

Quote from: gostwyck on October 19, 2012, 15:38
Jo Ann made a very good point about the credibility of the licenses to the buyers too. There will always be contributors who attempt to game or cheat the system, not to mention others who upload stolen content. Who is going to police all that side of things?

- Stolen content -if reported- can be taken down easily..

- This site WILL SAY on it's tagline: "It is a search engine only, to help you find artist sites, use them at your own discretion, Master Search Engine is not responsible for any issues"

Done!

Any contributor "who is cheating" would only hurt his/her own credibility.. not the site's..

Also, who says there has to be a legal assurance? After all, if taken to court, innocent buyer will not be punished anyway.. Only the provider of illegal content is at risk and why would the buyers worry about that?

istock is clever.. they sure know how to fool corporate people who have C.Y.A. (cover your ass) mentality

Really? Thats naive thinking.

cidepix · « **Reply #35 on:** October 19, 2012, 16:33 »

Quote from: Poncke on October 19, 2012, 16:30

Quote from: cidepix on October 19, 2012, 16:14
Quote from: gostwyck on October 19, 2012, 15:38
Jo Ann made a very good point about the credibility of the licenses to the buyers too. There will always be contributors who attempt to game or cheat the system, not to mention others who upload stolen content. Who is going to police all that side of things?

- Stolen content -if reported- can be taken down easily..

- This site WILL SAY on it's tagline: "It is a search engine only, to help you find artist sites, use them at your own discretion, Master Search Engine is not responsible for any issues"

Done!

Any contributor "who is cheating" would only hurt his/her own credibility.. not the site's..

Also, who says there has to be a legal assurance? After all, if taken to court, innocent buyer will not be punished anyway.. Only the provider of illegal content is at risk and why would the buyers worry about that?

istock is clever.. they sure know how to fool corporate people who have C.Y.A. (cover your ass) mentality

Really? Thats naive thinking.

No! it's not..

You use google, don't you? When you find a shopping site through google, and they cheat you and take too much money from your credit card, will you blame google?

after all, you found the site using google..

The site I am talking about is "the google of personal stock photo sites".. Nothing more..

Maybe I wasn't very good in making it clearer..

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #36 on:** October 19, 2012, 16:44 »

Wow I went away for 24hrs, and lots of great responses.

Lot of great ideas.
We are creatives here, and we're all on Microsites, or we wouldn't be here. The biggest problem we all have is the massive % of $$$ they take, and mostly terrible customer service.

Back to my original idea...
1.Creating a Stock Agency that pays the contributor at least 50% or more. (This is very complex Setting a new website up I know) Thus why I think Photoshelter is the best alternative for individual photographers can set up their own sites the way they like, and price their work they way they like.
2. The OurStockAgency.com idea would be a Google Image search idea. Client searches in the search box for their image. The site grabs images from each and every individual photographer sites keywords and put together pages of images for the client to view. When the client finds the image clicks on the image to buy. Site directs them to the photographers site, and makes the sale there. PHotoshelter delivers the digital image to the client, and photographer pays part of the royalty back to "OurStockAgency.com" website.
3. Money generated from the site would help pay for Advertising, website upkeep. Staff etc.
4. Important to recruit every photographer to join in and make a massive transition from all the agencies combined to have the maximum effect on the market.

I know this isn't an easy task, but there is enough of us out there that can pull our $$$ and talents together to make this a reality! I'm all for it...
Let's hear some more Ideas and let's get this rolling!

Poncke · « **Reply #37 on:** October 19, 2012, 16:51 »

Quote from: cidepix on October 19, 2012, 16:33

Quote from: Poncke on October 19, 2012, 16:30
Quote from: cidepix on October 19, 2012, 16:14
Quote from: gostwyck on October 19, 2012, 15:38
Jo Ann made a very good point about the credibility of the licenses to the buyers too. There will always be contributors who attempt to game or cheat the system, not to mention others who upload stolen content. Who is going to police all that side of things?

- Stolen content -if reported- can be taken down easily..

- This site WILL SAY on it's tagline: "It is a search engine only, to help you find artist sites, use them at your own discretion, Master Search Engine is not responsible for any issues"

Done!

Any contributor "who is cheating" would only hurt his/her own credibility.. not the site's..

Also, who says there has to be a legal assurance? After all, if taken to court, innocent buyer will not be punished anyway.. Only the provider of illegal content is at risk and why would the buyers worry about that?

istock is clever.. they sure know how to fool corporate people who have C.Y.A. (cover your ass) mentality

Really? Thats naive thinking.

No! it's not..

You use google, don't you? When you find a shopping site through google, and they cheat you and take too much money from your credit card, will you blame google?

after all, you found the site using google..

The site I am talking about is "the google of personal stock photo sites".. Nothing more..

Maybe I wasn't very good in making it clearer..

Apples and pears. People go to your engine to find photos, not everything that was ever posted on the internet since its beginning.

If they get burned once or twice they will never use your search engine again. They need to know that whenever they get to a photo on a site its legit. DOnt underestimate bad word of mouth. Things go viral in a second, good or bad. If they click on a photo and need to worry if its a legit site, or investigate first you lose the sale. If it happens too often you lose the customer.

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #38 on:** October 19, 2012, 16:56 »

Quote from: ClaridgeJ on October 19, 2012, 13:46

All very well but how would this master agency attract buyers? I mean its not exactly as if all the others are closing down, is it and with some 100 million pics already floating around, we could hardly offer anything new?
Its extremely difficult to lure away buyers from already established businesses, thats why newer agencies simply cant make it no matter what they promise.
This idea is great but at the moment it seems an uphill struggle, especially with most of todays buyers who doesnt seem to care about quality at all.

The Main Idea is for Each and every Photographer to leave the Agencies! Pull their images and have full control over them again. If we take our images back. The buyers have no choice but to buy from us direct! Yes it's an uphill battle, but were the ones who let them take control and pay us on an average 20-40%. Really we've shot ourselves in the foot more than once.

Yes there are legal issues, yes there are problems with content not meeting quality standards. Yes there are going to be problems. But let's join together used what we've learned from the agencies and do better! There will be enough Advertising $$$ and more left over to pay for such things. The best thing we can do is get the word out, to our fellow photographers, that something great is coming for them, and explain were in this together, and that we control our images and destiny, not the big bully Stock Agencies.

Stand up and fight for your Rights!!! (Bob Marley)

ClaridgeJ · « **Reply #39 on:** October 20, 2012, 03:43 »

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 19, 2012, 16:56

Quote from: ClaridgeJ on October 19, 2012, 13:46
All very well but how would this master agency attract buyers? I mean its not exactly as if all the others are closing down, is it and with some 100 million pics already floating around, we could hardly offer anything new?
Its extremely difficult to lure away buyers from already established businesses, thats why newer agencies simply cant make it no matter what they promise.
This idea is great but at the moment it seems an uphill struggle, especially with most of todays buyers who doesnt seem to care about quality at all.

The Main Idea is for Each and every Photographer to leave the Agencies! Pull their images and have full control over them again. If we take our images back. The buyers have no choice but to buy from us direct! Yes it's an uphill battle, but were the ones who let them take control and pay us on an average 20-40%. Really we've shot ourselves in the foot more than once.

Yes there are legal issues, yes there are problems with content not meeting quality standards. Yes there are going to be problems. But let's join together used what we've learned from the agencies and do better! There will be enough Advertising $$$ and more left over to pay for such things. The best thing we can do is get the word out, to our fellow photographers, that something great is coming for them, and explain were in this together, and that we control our images and destiny, not the big bully Stock Agencies.

Stand up and fight for your Rights!!! (Bob Marley)

yeah thats exactly what I figured you meant and you do realize its easier to win the jackpot at Vegas, dont you? there are severall people here depending on agencies for their support of families, etc and most of these are the heavy contributors.

Most of ther serious micro contributors are too deep rooted, too involved and not really in the mood for gambling.

fotografer · « **Reply #40 on:** October 20, 2012, 03:59 »

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 19, 2012, 16:56

Quote from: ClaridgeJ on October 19, 2012, 13:46
All very well but how would this master agency attract buyers? I mean its not exactly as if all the others are closing down, is it and with some 100 million pics already floating around, we could hardly offer anything new?
Its extremely difficult to lure away buyers from already established businesses, thats why newer agencies simply cant make it no matter what they promise.
This idea is great but at the moment it seems an uphill struggle, especially with most of todays buyers who doesnt seem to care about quality at all.

The Main Idea is for Each and every Photographer to leave the Agencies! Pull their images and have full control over them again. If we take our images back. The buyers have no choice but to buy from us direct! Yes it's an uphill battle, but were the ones who let them take control and pay us on an average 20-40%. Really we've shot ourselves in the foot more than once.

Yes there are legal issues, yes there are problems with content not meeting quality standards. Yes there are going to be problems. But let's join together used what we've learned from the agencies and do better! There will be enough Advertising $$$ and more left over to pay for such things. The best thing we can do is get the word out, to our fellow photographers, that something great is coming for them, and explain were in this together, and that we control our images and destiny, not the big bully Stock Agencies.

Stand up and fight for your Rights!!! (Bob Marley)

Unfortunately that is unlikely to ever happen and the agencies know it that is why they can do what they like with us. If I pull out of all agencies I need to be 100% sure that I can earn enough elsewhere immediately. My bills have to be paid,my family have to be fed. Anybody that takes stock seriously is in the same position so all you will get is hobbiest which will make no difference to anything anywhere.
I agree that it is a wonderful idea if it could happen but it won't anytime soon.

Poncke · « **Reply #41 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:01 »

I am sure there are hobbiests that take better photos then many professionals

fotografer · « **Reply #42 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:23 »

Quote from: Poncke on October 20, 2012, 04:01

I am sure there are hobbiests that take better photos then many professionals

I'm 100% sure that there are. I wasn't talking about image quality I was talking about the fact that they won't get enough images to make a difference. Anybody that is making a lot of money on stock can't afford the risk of pulling their images from all stock sites. Even Yuri didn't do that when he started his own site.

Poncke · « **Reply #43 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:34 »

Quote from: fotografer on October 20, 2012, 04:23

Quote from: Poncke on October 20, 2012, 04:01
I am sure there are hobbiests that take better photos then many professionals
I'm 100% sure that there are. I wasn't talking about image quality I was talking about the fact that they won't get enough images to make a difference. Anybody that is making a lot of money on stock can't afford the risk of pulling their images from all stock sites. Even Yuri didn't do that when he started his own site.

I see your point now.

ClaridgeJ · « **Reply #44 on:** October 20, 2012, 07:33 »

Quote from: Poncke on October 20, 2012, 04:01

I am sure there are hobbiests that take better photos then many professionals

I think youre right actually. The exeption might be conceptuals, possibly we have the edge there. The amateur seem to have a fresh approach, etc, perhaps even seeing things we dont.

gostwyck · « **Reply #45 on:** October 20, 2012, 08:10 »

Quote from: Poncke on October 20, 2012, 04:01

I am sure there are hobbiests that take better photos then many professionals

Of course there are. Hobbyists can spend as much time and money as they like without any concern to getting a return.

Within my own portfolio my personal favourites are almost entirely those images I took before 'discovering' stock (usually requiring me to drive for miles and wander around for hours waiting for the right light). They don't earn much though.

The 'pro' stock shooter tends to be much better at using his time/money more profitably and optimising commercial opportuntities when they present themselves.

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 20, 2012, 08:14 »

I think the best analogy here is to Amazon rather than Google - what is needed is an Amazon photostore. One site to search for images in individual stores, that will display prices and product information and accept payments. Take a small commission off of each sale with no upfront costs so sellers only pay when they get a sale. For buyers a central site for searches and payments to a single site. Come up with a good business plan and get investors to pay for startup costs. Allow for reviews so people who sell bad images or ones with legal entanglements get called out. I think it could work but will require someone to devote a ton of time - or see if Amazon would be interested.

modviz · « **Reply #47 on:** October 20, 2012, 09:08 »

100 years ago working stiffs were making pennies - working long hours - and with no benefits. Sound familiar? Unions, like it or not, balanced the playing field. Stock agencies have the ideal conditions. They have thousands - many times tens of thousands of people working for them - they pay them pennies for their efforts and they don't have to worry about the upfront costs of running a business - healthcare, dental, holiday pay, etc.

The agencies are empowered. Period. And it'll stay that way as long as WE, the contributors to their enterprises, work as single individuals.

Strength in numbers in a united front allows for a loud, common voice that will be heard by the agencies. If, for example, 123RF goes ahead with its commission cuts in the new year - and everyone pulled out in unison or at the very least, stopped contributing images, it would send a clear and resounding message to other agencies who are considering the same action.

cidepix · « **Reply #48 on:** October 20, 2012, 12:31 »

Actually this thread is a great "hint" for ktools developers..

Imagine how many more sites (and possibly hosting) they will sell if they develop a common search engine that will search "the entire ktools sites network" for free..

who ever does this will be selling thousands of scripts.. That's for sure..

and the project will automatically "fund" itself by selling a lot more scripts..

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #49 on:** October 20, 2012, 13:02 »

ktools is a really low quality option - I have dealt with it only via Warm Picture (i.e. not as a developer of my own site). Just about every aspect of their site is wanting and their search is terrible (worse in the newer version, I believe). I can't see any credible-to-buyers solution coming from them if they can't even get the single site stuff complete and high quality

Microbius · « **Reply #50 on:** October 21, 2012, 04:40 »

I have only ever really heard bad things about Ktools too, it seems people use it as a compromise because there's just not anything really great out there, rather than because it is actually a decent solution.

lisafx · « **Reply #51 on:** October 21, 2012, 18:21 »

I'm very happy with my Ktools site, but I did spend a bit of money hiring a programmer to give me a better search, simpler and better batch processing capabilities, and other minor customizations.

velocicarpo · « **Reply #52 on:** October 21, 2012, 19:05 »

I spent lots of time with CMSaccount and lately a bit with KTools. I think both work ok and are usable, but with todays fast paced changes I think my future projects and solutions will be based on generic scripts like Wordpress and plugins. I could not find any really good script out there. Basic needs would be:
a) Cloud support (like e.g. Amazon Cloudfront, S3,...). With my Portfolio size I would need to spend a fortune if I woul host all data on a local server.
b) Variety in Payment gateways! Do not come up with the usual paypal stuff please. If you do not have manymanymany payment gateways available any future solution will have to offer custom coding of a gateway for extra cost. The merchant world out there is a mess and constantly changing.
c) Clean code!!!!

jenniferhoward06 · « **Reply #53 on:** October 22, 2012, 04:50 »

I also spend a lots of time on CMS account But KTools help me a lot in it!!!

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #54 on:** October 22, 2012, 12:33 »

After doing a little research on Picture Engine, my first impression is...This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for in regards for ALL of us to leave our Agencies and list our own images, and take back control of our images.

Now migrating all your images to Picture Engine is easy. You set up your own Web site, which is great, because you know all of us our picky and want total control of everything...LOL
So you can be creative and make your own, or like I chose to use PhotoShelter from me. You can use KTools or whom ever you'd like. Price your images your own way, and make 100% of the money owed to you!!!

NOW is the time to JOIN, and LEAVE your AGENCY!!!

OK I know most of you need money, and are scared! I am too, but WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER if we want to have maximum impact on the market.

Here's my idea!
Set up your website... List it with PictureEngine...If your exclusive with anyone, make sure you change your Agreement with them. Get everything ready to leave your Agency...When Picture Engine has all of the bugs worked out and is ready to launch... Everyone at the same time puts in their 30 day notice to the Agencies all at once...A MASSIVE exit all at the same time.... Now the Agencies have to remove your images from their Library or be liable to be sued! Picture Engine will now be the ONE source for Art Buyers world wide to find images...OUR images that we have 100% control over..

Look we've got to do something... Stock Agencies are treating us worse and worse every year! Their taking more and more of our share of our sales. Enough is enough!!! Let's show them who the BOSS is and fight back and tell them where to stick it!!!

I encourage you to look at your industry, and ask yourself has it gotten better or worse? Are you making more money or less? Are you happy with your Stock Agency?

I think you know the answers, and our only option is to STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK...TAKE CONTROL YOUR IMAGES AND WIN THIS FIGHT!!!

ClaridgeJ · « **Reply #55 on:** October 22, 2012, 12:51 »

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 22, 2012, 12:33

After doing a little research on Picture Engine, my first impression is...This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for in regards for ALL of us to leave our Agencies and list our own images, and take back control of our images.

Now migrating all your images to Picture Engine is easy. You set up your own Web site, which is great, because you know all of us our picky and want total control of everything...LOL
So you can be creative and make your own, or like I chose to use PhotoShelter from me. You can use KTools or whom ever you'd like. Price your images your own way, and make 100% of the money owed to you!!!

NOW is the time to JOIN, and LEAVE your AGENCY!!!

OK I know most of you need money, and are scared! I am too, but WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER if we want to have maximum impact on the market.

Here's my idea!
Set up your website... List it with PictureEngine...If your exclusive with anyone, make sure you change your Agreement with them. Get everything ready to leave your Agency...When Picture Engine has all of the bugs worked out and is ready to launch... Everyone at the same time puts in their 30 day notice to the Agencies all at once...A MASSIVE exit all at the same time.... Now the Agencies have to remove your images from their Library or be liable to be sued! Picture Engine will now be the ONE source for Art Buyers world wide to find images...OUR images that we have 100% control over..

Look we've got to do something... Stock Agencies are treating us worse and worse every year! Their taking more and more of our share of our sales. Enough is enough!!! Let's show them who the BOSS is and fight back and tell them where to stick it!!!

I encourage you to look at your industry, and ask yourself has it gotten better or worse? Are you making more money or less? Are you happy with your Stock Agency?

I think you know the answers, and our only option is to STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK...TAKE CONTROL YOUR IMAGES AND WIN THIS FIGHT!!!

Sigh!! yep its all easily done I suppose, storm in a teacup.

mattdixon · « **Reply #56 on:** October 22, 2012, 13:00 »

For it to work properly you need an API to get sales data so commercially viable images rise to the top of the search. Otherwise you end up with junk in the search results.
It's a shame the Virtual Agency at Photoshelter is so basic, I wish Ktools would implement something similar with CMS customisation, then a handful contributors could easily build sizeable libraries to rival the main agencies.

Poncke · « **Reply #57 on:** October 22, 2012, 16:53 »

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 22, 2012, 12:33

After doing a little research on Picture Engine, my first impression is...This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for in regards for ALL of us to leave our Agencies and list our own images, and take back control of our images.

Now migrating all your images to Picture Engine is easy. You set up your own Web site, which is great, because you know all of us our picky and want total control of everything...LOL
So you can be creative and make your own, or like I chose to use PhotoShelter from me. You can use KTools or whom ever you'd like. Price your images your own way, and make 100% of the money owed to you!!!

NOW is the time to JOIN, and LEAVE your AGENCY!!!

OK I know most of you need money, and are scared! I am too, but WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER if we want to have maximum impact on the market.

Here's my idea!
Set up your website... List it with PictureEngine...If your exclusive with anyone, make sure you change your Agreement with them. Get everything ready to leave your Agency...When Picture Engine has all of the bugs worked out and is ready to launch... Everyone at the same time puts in their 30 day notice to the Agencies all at once...A MASSIVE exit all at the same time.... Now the Agencies have to remove your images from their Library or be liable to be sued! Picture Engine will now be the ONE source for Art Buyers world wide to find images...OUR images that we have 100% control over..

Look we've got to do something... Stock Agencies are treating us worse and worse every year! Their taking more and more of our share of our sales. Enough is enough!!! Let's show them who the BOSS is and fight back and tell them where to stick it!!!

I encourage you to look at your industry, and ask yourself has it gotten better or worse? Are you making more money or less? Are you happy with your Stock Agency?

I think you know the answers, and our only option is to STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK...TAKE CONTROL YOUR IMAGES AND WIN THIS FIGHT!!!

You are asking people to give up their livelihood and take a gamble with their mortgage and their children's tuition.

stockastic · « **Reply #58 on:** October 22, 2012, 16:58 »

Quote from: Poncke on October 22, 2012, 16:53

You are asking people to give up their livelihood and take a gamble with their mortgage and their children's tuition.

Well, ok then it's not for you.

Me, I have no mortgage and no kids. I could get interested.

lisafx · « **Reply #59 on:** October 22, 2012, 18:18 »

I admire your enthusiasm. Really I do.

I too had high hopes for PictureEngine. Unfortunately, they do not, as we speak, support Ktools. Although there has been some talk that they are working on it, to the best of my knowledge they have not yet integrated it into their site.

Would be lovely if they pull it together and offer a real alternative to the micros, but we don't seem to be there yet.

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 22, 2012, 12:33

After doing a little research on Picture Engine, my first impression is...This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for in regards for ALL of us to leave our Agencies and list our own images, and take back control of our images.

Now migrating all your images to Picture Engine is easy. You set up your own Web site, which is great, because you know all of us our picky and want total control of everything...LOL
So you can be creative and make your own, or like I chose to use PhotoShelter from me. You can use KTools or whom ever you'd like. Price your images your own way, and make 100% of the money owed to you!!!

NOW is the time to JOIN, and LEAVE your AGENCY!!!

OK I know most of you need money, and are scared! I am too, but WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER if we want to have maximum impact on the market.

Here's my idea!
Set up your website... List it with PictureEngine...If your exclusive with anyone, make sure you change your Agreement with them. Get everything ready to leave your Agency...When Picture Engine has all of the bugs worked out and is ready to launch... Everyone at the same time puts in their 30 day notice to the Agencies all at once...A MASSIVE exit all at the same time.... Now the Agencies have to remove your images from their Library or be liable to be sued! Picture Engine will now be the ONE source for Art Buyers world wide to find images...OUR images that we have 100% control over..

Look we've got to do something... Stock Agencies are treating us worse and worse every year! Their taking more and more of our share of our sales. Enough is enough!!! Let's show them who the BOSS is and fight back and tell them where to stick it!!!

I encourage you to look at your industry, and ask yourself has it gotten better or worse? Are you making more money or less? Are you happy with your Stock Agency?

I think you know the answers, and our only option is to STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK...TAKE CONTROL YOUR IMAGES AND WIN THIS FIGHT!!!

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #60 on:** October 22, 2012, 19:42 »

Thanks Lisa,
I agree that Picture Editor isn't there yet. I'm hoping to talk to the creator of Picture Editor this week, and find out where they are, and how much longer it will take. I will bring up KTools for you. I checked out your website and wondering why at this moment the way your set up that Picture Editor wouldn't work right now?
I know it's in Beta testing, so throw it up and find out if it works or not. I'm not saying jump ship right now, I'm saying test it out.

As for everyone here, I'm saying get your ducks in a row.... Not to jump of the Agency bandwagon just yet. I'm saying get yourself ready! Get a website that will host your images and price them the way you want, and will deliver them to your clients and deposit the money directly into your bank account! Photoshelter does that right now!

Wait for someone like Picture Editor or another web person to build a search engine, that will find our images and our images only. Someone that won't use the Agencies, but just all of us banded together!

Will it take time, yes...but what are you supposed to do, continue taking less and being treated each year more poorly? Wake up... get a clue the writing is on the wall for all of us!

Really the writing should be on the wall for all the Agencies, once we stand up and tell them the shove it!

Les · « **Reply #61 on:** October 22, 2012, 23:58 »

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 22, 2012, 19:42

Thanks Lisa,
I agree that Picture Editor isn't there yet. I'm hoping to talk to the creator of Picture Editor this week, and find out where they are, and how much longer it will take. I will bring up KTools for you. I checked out your website and wondering why at this moment the way your set up that Picture Editor wouldn't work right now?
I know it's in Beta testing, so throw it up and find out if it works or not. I'm not saying jump ship right now, I'm saying test it out.

As for everyone here, I'm saying get your ducks in a row.... Not to jump of the Agency bandwagon just yet. I'm saying get yourself ready! Get a website that will host your images and price them the way you want, and will deliver them to your clients and deposit the money directly into your bank account! Photoshelter does that right now!

Wait for someone like Picture Editor or another web person to build a search engine, that will find our images and our images only. Someone that won't use the Agencies, but just all of us banded together!

Will it take time, yes...but what are you supposed to do, continue taking less and being treated each year more poorly? Wake up... get a clue the writing is on the wall for all of us!

Really the writing should be on the wall for all the Agencies, once we stand up and tell them the shove it!

Are you talking about PictureEngine or is Picture Editor yet another option?

What is the principal problem with supporting KTools under PictureEngine?
Are these two companies talking to each other? If those two programs could work together, both companies would surely gain many independents as clients.

ClaridgeJ · « **Reply #62 on:** October 23, 2012, 01:04 »

Yes Im wondering too, whats the problem? have I missed something? I thought Picture-Engine was alive and kicking or at least got off the ground.

leaf · « **Reply #63 on:** October 23, 2012, 01:47 »

Quote from: Les on October 22, 2012, 23:58

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 22, 2012, 19:42
Thanks Lisa,
I agree that Picture Editor isn't there yet. I'm hoping to talk to the creator of Picture Editor this week, and find out where they are, and how much longer it will take. I will bring up KTools for you. I checked out your website and wondering why at this moment the way your set up that Picture Editor wouldn't work right now?
I know it's in Beta testing, so throw it up and find out if it works or not. I'm not saying jump ship right now, I'm saying test it out.

As for everyone here, I'm saying get your ducks in a row.... Not to jump of the Agency bandwagon just yet. I'm saying get yourself ready! Get a website that will host your images and price them the way you want, and will deliver them to your clients and deposit the money directly into your bank account! Photoshelter does that right now!

Wait for someone like Picture Editor or another web person to build a search engine, that will find our images and our images only. Someone that won't use the Agencies, but just all of us banded together!

Will it take time, yes...but what are you supposed to do, continue taking less and being treated each year more poorly? Wake up... get a clue the writing is on the wall for all of us!

Really the writing should be on the wall for all the Agencies, once we stand up and tell them the shove it!

Are you talking about PictureEngine or is Picture Editor yet another option?

What is the principal problem with supporting KTools under PictureEngine?
Are these two companies talking to each other? If those two programs could work together, both companies would surely gain many independents as clients.

Yes, PictureEngine has talked to Ktools about getting something working (that's what they told me) but it would still require ktools to create the output (at least for it to be fully supported by ktools). Ktools seems pretty swamped with it's updates and features (not to mention fixing the search) that I'm not holding my breath on how fast it will be implemented.

sharpshot · « **Reply #64 on:** October 23, 2012, 02:53 »

It was a few months ago that it was first mentioned that Picture Engine doesn't work with Ktools and they're fully aware of it. I think they should of sorted that out before making an announcement about Picture Engine. That's one of the reasons why I'm not enthusiastic about them yet. I also thought they were within weeks of launching Picture Engine several months ago? Didn't they say fees would rise as soon as it launched? I didn't like that, as it seemed like a ploy to get us to sign up straight away. I'd rather see it working first and then have some time to decide if it's worth paying them $40 a month. I believe they're not taking any money until the site launches properly but I think they would get a lot more of us involved if they offered a free 30 day trial when the search is fully functional.

PhotoShelter have a free 14 day trial but they're an established site. I think a new site needs to do a bit more than that.

sharpshot · « **Reply #65 on:** October 23, 2012, 04:39 »

Interesting post on PetaPixel today. I have to agree that this could be the next big thing but will it ever happen?
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/10/22/the-next-big-thing-in-the-photo-world-is-individual-licensing/

Poncke · « **Reply #66 on:** October 23, 2012, 13:43 »

Quote from: stockastic on October 22, 2012, 16:58

Quote from: Poncke on October 22, 2012, 16:53
You are asking people to give up their livelihood and take a gamble with their mortgage and their children's tuition.
Well, ok then it's not for you.

Me, I have no mortgage and no kids. I could get interested.

I am single with no kids and rent an apartment. I have a good paid day job. I am just speaking for tons of others who do depend on stock income. Would you give up your day job for something completely radical with no guarantee of income, because a random stranger asked you to? No.

ClaridgeJ · « **Reply #67 on:** October 23, 2012, 14:43 »

Quote from: Poncke on October 23, 2012, 13:43

Quote from: stockastic on October 22, 2012, 16:58
Quote from: Poncke on October 22, 2012, 16:53
You are asking people to give up their livelihood and take a gamble with their mortgage and their children's tuition.
Well, ok then it's not for you.

Me, I have no mortgage and no kids. I could get interested.
I am single with no kids and rent an apartment. I have a good paid day job. I am just speaking for tons of others who do depend on stock income. Would you give up your day job for something completely radical with no guarantee of income, because a random stranger asked you to? No.

Serious photography, Im not so much talking stock here but serious conceptual photography and commissioned work as well is a passion, not a job as such. Its simply something you feel you are driven into and for better or worse for poor or rich.
Its like taking the oath at the alter when getting married. Followed by trouble and strifes.

Les · « **Reply #68 on:** October 23, 2012, 21:18 »

Quote

Yes, PictureEngine has talked to Ktools about getting something working (that's what they told me) but it would still require ktools to create the output (at least for it to be fully supported by ktools). Ktools seems pretty swamped with it's updates and features (not to mention fixing the search) that I'm not holding my breath on how fast it will be implemented.

This seems to be really poor planning. If Ktools thinks that they can make their program work with PictureENgine, it should be incorporated into their road map plan, and announced so. Of course, competent search is very important, too.

If we knew, that the link between KTools and PictureEngine is coming soon (in the next release), we could start loading our images into KTools, and be ready for that next step. I'm sure that with a concrete time plan, and assurance of both companies that they are committed to mutual cooperation, many contributors would sign for both services, and give that needed boost to them.
On the other hand, with no information forthcoming and only vague promises, nobody is going to waste their time and money.

Ktools and Picture Engine, if you are listening, get together and make it happen.

cascoly · « **Reply #70 on:** October 24, 2012, 13:13 »

Quote from: sgoodwin4813 on October 20, 2012, 08:14

I think the best analogy here is to Amazon rather than Google - what is needed is an Amazon photostore. One site to search for images in individual stores, that will display prices and product information and accept payments. Take a small commission off of each sale with no upfront costs so sellers only pay when they get a sale. For buyers a central site for searches and payments to a single site. Come up with a good business plan and get investors to pay for startup costs. Allow for reviews so people who sell bad images or ones with legal entanglements get called out. I think it could work but will require someone to devote a ton of time - or see if Amazon would be interested.

amazon has repeatedly rejected this idea

ebay used to allow selling digital images, but they have now banned any digital products claiming there was too much fraud

lisafx · « **Reply #71 on:** October 24, 2012, 13:17 »

Justin, your answer in the other thread seems to boil down to "we've only received four e-mails asking for Ktools, so we haven't done anything". Unless I am misreading it.

You have read the multitude of posts and threads on this forum asking for Ktools integration. If you build it, they will come. Until you accept the Ktools platform, you are missing a huge part of your market.

cidepix · « **Reply #72 on:** October 24, 2012, 16:59 »

Quote from: lisafx on October 24, 2012, 13:17

Justin, your answer in the other thread seems to boil down to "we've only received four e-mails asking for Ktools, so we haven't done anything". Unless I am misreading it.

You have read the multitude of posts and threads on this forum asking for Ktools integration. If you build it, they will come. Until you accept the Ktools platform, you are missing a huge part of your market.

aaand CMS Account

which is the script I am currently using on my site..

wordplanet · « **Reply #73 on:** October 24, 2012, 20:45 »

Does anyone here have a Virtual Agency at Photoshelter? I host my site there and would be happy to join a virtual agency as a small step toward independance from the big stock sites.

I'd be happy to put my micro images into a virtual agency on Photoshelter and see where it goes. We could all blog about it and do G+, tweet, etc. to get some viral marketing going. It won't replace the earnings from the agencies, but every sale we'd make would be one less sale they make.

The one thing I'm not sure about is the micro vs macro debate on my site - so I guess the virtual agency would have to be one or the other - or it could have micro and premium galleries. I have many of my images priced and available for immediate download on Photoshelter, but I only have a handful of the photos that I sell on the micros on there since I don't want to have huge pricing discrepancies. Of course, I realize that Alamy oftens licenses my photos for less than the micros actually charge their clients (for ELs or true RF use). How do you handle pricing your images if you have some on the macros and some on the micros? I'd be willing to go with a recommended pricing structure for a Virtual Agency, so any interest send me a PM or reply to this post.

mattdixon · « **Reply #74 on:** October 25, 2012, 06:52 »

The Virtual Agency options at Photoshelter are lacking, no 'Best Match' sort or any way to skin the Shop Front. Shame because it the potential as good platform for collaboration. Ktools seems the best of the bunch with their contributor plug in.

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