MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Shutterstock.com => Topic started by: leaf on September 23, 2009, 07:00
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Yup, you heard right. Shutterstock the king of the free (read non exclusive) world, who currently sits in the top position in the MSG earnings poll, just purchased the microstock agency Bigstockphoto (who currently sits in position 6 in the poll).
That gives us
Shutterstock (position 1) Owns BigStockPhoto (position 6)
While Getty owns iStockPhoto (position 2) and StockXpert (position 5)
What will happen next? This industry is changing very quickly.
From their press release
Shutterstock Announces Acquisition of BigStockPhoto
Move signals Shutterstock’s expansion into the credit-based stock photo market
New York, September 23, 2009 – Shutterstock, the world’s largest subscription-based stock photo agency, announced that it has acquired BigStockPhoto, a leading credit-based stock photo agency, headquartered in Davis, California. Financial terms of the deal were not disclosed.
“BigStockPhoto is a leader in the stock photo industry, and an excellent fit for Shutterstock as we expand into the credit-based market,” said Jon Oringer, founder and CEO of Shutterstock. “This addition will enable Shutterstock to better satisfy the diverse payment preferences of stock photo buyers worldwide.”
According to the deal, BigStockPhoto will remain a separate entity, and Shutterstock plans to grow the company’s global presence by investing heavily in marketing, infrastructure and user experience.
BigStockPhoto was founded in 2004 to provide an alternative to high-priced stock photography, and to create a marketplace for photographers to sell their work. In addition to its diverse library of 3.7 Million royalty-free photos and vectors, the agency has created a vibrant community of image buyers and submitters from around the world.
What does that mean for the photographer? It is hard to say. Shutterstock said in the press release that they plan to keep BigStockPhoto as a seperate entity but that doesn't mean that they won't combine their image galleries. If they did that, besides the potential mess it would create, it would give us one less site to have to upload to while keeping the same number of sales avenues open.
It will be interesting to see how this develops.
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Wow. Never a dull moment.
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Funny thing:
I am 3 years in microstock busines, and dint have account on BigStock. Just 10 days ago I created account there, and uploaded about 30 photos. :D LOL. Should I stop uploading, or upload double files that are allready on SS? :D LOL!
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Very interesting! Thanks for the heads-up.
One good thing, as far as I'm concerned, it does suggest that Jon is not intent on selling out of SS any time soon.
SS has done a brilliant job to build themselves up to the size they are so it will be fascinating to see what happens when they apply their funding and know-how to BigStock.
Hopefully this will make it less likely that StockXpert will be killed off too.
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Did not see this one coming:) I wonder where do SS benefit in buying BigStock only the credit base thing ???
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Funny thing:
I am 3 years in microstock busines, and dint have account on BigStock. Just 10 days ago I created account there, and uploaded about 30 photos. :D LOL. Should I stop uploading, or upload double files that are allready on SS? :D LOL!
By the sounds of it, we probably won't notice any change. It sounds good that BigStockPhoto may get a serious increase in marketing budget though.
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Leaf
Do you think that my 2500 images on BigStock will soon be available from both sites?
I knew that something was happening at BigStock. New higher cash out amount, sudden very slow sales and approval time are standing still.
Thanks for anyones opinion on this!
-Larry
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Just wait and see what's gonna happen.....
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Wow, that was a shock!
If the stock sites keep merging like this we may end up with one big site! ;D :D
I hope they do keep Bigstock alive and trading. It would be a shame to lose them, they are a good little earner for me.
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Copyied info from Big Stoc Photo forum:
BigStockPhoto now part of Shutterstock family
by admin on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:03 pm
Dear BigStockPhoto Contributors,
This morning I have the pleasure of announcing the acquisition of
BigStockPhoto by Shutterstock Images. We are excited to add a
credit-based product to our line up of best-in-industry subscription
options. Though we studied the possibility of building a credit site
from scratch, in the end we decided that acquiring and building upon
the momentum of a solid brand like Bigstockphoto is the best way to
deliver this new product to our customers. As you all know,
Shutterstock has pioneered many products that have been duplicated in
the industry: we offered the first and by far the most successful
crowdsourced subscription stock photo product, we built the first
footage microstock product, and we were the first commercial stock
photo site to crowdsource editorial content. We still feel strongly
that subscription solutions offer the best value, but we also
recognize that some customers prefer to buy content through credits.
We want to work with those customers to better understand and meet
their content needs. Acquiring BigStock is the first step.
More than anything, we're excited to bring the things Shutterstock is
known for - our high quality content, great site design, precision
search tools, and saavy marketing - to the BigStock brand, the
website, and the product line. Be prepared to see a huge marketing
push, a redesigned website, and the type of sales volume that you are
used to seeing at Shutterstock. This won't happen overnight, but we
expect the trajectory will be the same as Shutterstock. What we did
with subscriptions - we plan to do with credits.
I hope all of you are as excited as we are that Bigstockphoto is now
part of the Shutterstock family. Tim and Dawn Donahue and their team
have built a great product, and we plan to make it better than ever
for image buyers and sellers around the world. We hope you will
continue to allow us to represent your great content on both
Shutterstock and BigStockPhoto and we look forward to working with you
in the months and years ahead.
Jon Oringer, Founder/CEO
Shutterstock Images
Re: BigStockPhoto now part of Shutterstock family
by admin on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:04 pm
Dear BigStockPhoto Buyers and Contributors,
Above is a huge announcement regarding the acquisition of BigStockPhoto by Shutterstock.
We have been looking for ways to grow BigStockPhoto far beyond it's current status and we are thrilled to have the expertise of Jon Oringer and the entire Shutterstock team taking us there. BigStockPhoto has grown to the point where it needs infrastructure and guidance to grow significantly, and we feel that Shutterstock is the perfect team to help us get there. I will continue to run the site in the same manner as before, so you probably won't feel any changes right away.
Dawn and I want to thank everyone for your incredible support and participation at BigStockPhoto over the years, and to encourage you to become even more involved as BigStockPhoto grows to the next exciting level.
With gratitude,
Tim and Dawn Donahue
BigStockPhoto
I am glad that Tim and Dawn will still be at BigStock running things as I do like them and trust them to give it their all!
I wish them good luck and a bright future for all BigStock members. (yeah, even me!)
-Larry
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I think this can only be good news that will hopefully see BS lift out of the doldrums and start earning some real money!
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Just sold my first pic on BS Sept 4th. Just hope this won't go like Snapvillage when they did thier thing with Veer. My pics were gone for good on that one.
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Wow, with all these announcements, this is a great time to be an independent microstocker.
Just out of interest (having never signed up to bigstock), do they have a tie-in period for contributors images?
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I think this is great news!!!!
Denis
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Interesting, thanks!
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Question from SS forum: "For those of us who are not on BigStock - would it make sense to start uploading our images there, or will you eventually copy them there?"
No immediate plans - so best to upload to both. We'll make sure to make it worth your while :)
Jon
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I got portfolios on both sites with about the same number of images (20 images more on BigStock). I really hope SS will make some marketing moves that will bring us more buyers.
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Wow, with all these announcements, this is a great time to be an independent microstocker.
Just out of interest (having never signed up to bigstock), do they have a tie-in period for contributors images?
Yes, 90 days.
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I think there are too many small players in the micro business dragging down prices. However most of them are easy enough to ignore. What is not good, and I base this in what has happened in the macro market, is too much amalgamation of the big players. It does not serve the photographer well at all.
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Wow!!! Really VERY EXCITING NEWS!!
Thanks for the headsup Leaf, and for posting both letters Larry. I hadn't seen them yet.
I am really happy to learn that Dawn and Tim will be staying on the run BigStock. They are wonderful people and have always treated contributors very well.
Which is something they have in common with Jon Oringer. Add to that Jon's business savvy and I think it will be a very potent combination, and a strong counterweight to Getty.
This seems like great news to me!
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What is not good, and I base this in what has happened in the macro market, is too much amalgamation of the big players. It does not serve the photographer well at all.
Good point but I don't think we're at danger levels yet. There are still 4 distinct major players in IS, SS, DT and FT and we also have Veer (Corbis) trying to muscle in on micro too. It's probably only a matter of time before Alamy comes to the party too __ either by choice or the lack of.
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This is great news! ;D I wonder if this will affect our OD's at Shutterstock.
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Best news about this is that it would seem to indicate that Shutterstock is not going to get bought out by Getty anytime soon.
As been mentioned by others, fewer major player agencies it is not good for us. Hopefully Dreamstime and Fotolia stay independent from the Getty and Shutterstock conglomerates. That will be best for all contributors.
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I'm optimistic that this will work in our favor. Both agencies have treated me well, with few if any moments of what? decision making. The only problem with BigStock is the revenue it generates; a serious marketing effort could make all the difference. If they see synergy, I'm happy to sit back and watch them, ummmm, synergies.
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Hi all,
If they will invest in marketing and infrastructure, it could be good for BigStock's contributors... I suggest them to invest also in a restyled home page ;-)
Just an Alexa Rank joke:
istock + stockxpert = 342 + 6239 = 6581
shutter + bigstock = 1208 + 5347 = 6555
Cheers,
roberto
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Wow, with all these announcements, this is a great time to be an independent microstocker.
Just out of interest (having never signed up to bigstock), do they have a tie-in period for contributors images?
Yes, 90 days.
Thanks for that, shame they have a tie-in (that was the only reason I left dreamstime).
Regardless, it will still be very interesting to see if people on BigStock report increasing sales over the next few months.
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How can a reduction in competition be good for contributors? This shakeout is part of the commoditization of stock imagery. When everyone is selling the exact same products in shops essentlially next door to each other, there is nothing left to compete on but price, and soon all the margin is gone.
Evenntually every photo is available on every site. For 10 cents.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
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Hi all,
If they will invest in marketing and infrastructure, it could be good for BigStock's contributors... I suggest them to invest also in a restyled home page ;-)
Just an Alexa Rank joke:
istock + stockxpert = 342 + 6239 = 6581
shutter + bigstock = 1208 + 5347 = 6555
Cheers,
roberto
What is wrong with BSPs home page? I always thought it one of the best and most informative of all the sites.
-Larry
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It would be nice to simplify and modernize BigStock's look. Too many clicks to get where you have to go now.
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How can a reduction in competition be good for contributors? This shakeout is part of the of stock imagery. When everyone is selling the exact same products in shops essentially next door to each other, there is nothing left to compete on but price, and soon all the margin is gone.
Eventually every photo is available on every site. For 10 cents.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
Competition results in LOWER prices. The LACK of competition results in higher prices!
Example: One gas station in a one hundred mile stretch of highway. = $6.00 per gallon
add 50 more gas stations to the same highway = $3.50 per gallon.
I wish about 20 RF sites would dry up and fade away now. Start on the list at the right of this page work your way up from the bottom.
-Larry
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What is wrong with BSPs home page? I always thought it one of the best and most informative of all the sites.
-Larry
To me it looks cluttered, ugly and is not particularly intuitive. The sort-order options are simply bizarre too, if a buyer gets that far which I suspect most don't.
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I'm optimistic that this will work in our favor. Both agencies have treated me well, with few if any moments of what? decision making. The only problem with BigStock is the revenue it generates; a serious marketing effort could make all the difference. If they see synergy, I'm happy to sit back and watch them, ummmm, synergies.
I would hold the 'yippee's' for a while, for the existing BigStock contributors the flood of new artists migrating from SS will only dilute the revenue far greater than any new marketing can generate 'new sales', as there are limited new markets this move could be just a way to use the SS brand to try to attract Customers from the other 'Credits' agencies existing markets, costs can be reduced to increase profits by bringing both server farms, inspection and administration to SS, when companies are aquired it is not often that the suppliers benefit from the deal.
This move will consolidate SS in the market but will not really benefit the existing BigStock artists that have helped to build the brand, IS and SS both grew thier models as pioneeers in microstock the growth has now peaked and consolidation by aqusition is the new direction.
David (sorry to pee on the fire)
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What I estimate will have the most impact to photographers will be whether the images from Bigstockphoto will be integrated into Shutterstock's database for subscription sales and whether or not Shuttterstock's images will be offered for credit sales using BigStock's model ....
-Mark
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What is wrong with BSPs home page? I always thought it one of the best and most informative of all the sites.
-Larry
Hi Larry, it's just my opinion of course... too full, too many links and images.
Cheers
-roberto
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With 931 images on SS and 1,030 on BigStock, I'm curious to see how this shakes out. I'd REALLY like to see more credit sales on SS! I guess we'll have to wait and see...
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What is wrong with BSPs home page? I always thought it one of the best and most informative of all the sites.
-Larry
Hi larry,
I blogged recently about Microstock and Image Diversity (http://bit.ly/10XI9j) and the BigStock search engine was the 'worst bar stock expert' for returning relevent images, improvements in this area could generate much better sales, so it is not all bad!
David
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It's at least slightly ironic that the company that started the dreaded subscription-based sales model buys the only "Big 6" site without subs. That might very well mean that BigStock will continue to be the only "Big 6" without subs, as what would be the point for SS to add subs to a second site?
But I agree with those who say, it's much too early to decide what this will really mean for us. Come back in a year, and we'll all know. ;D
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Example: One gas station in a one hundred mile stretch of highway. = $6.00 per gallon
add 50 more gas stations to the same highway = $3.50 per gallon.
I wish about 20 RF sites would dry up and fade away now. Start on the list at the right of this page work your way up from the bottom.
-Larry
Then instead of making $10 per hour working for a gas station, they offer you $2.50 and of course welcome you to go elsewhere if you don't like it.
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I like this move, as long as the don't tinker a whole lot this could be a win win for all parties.
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Oh boy, hope BigStock is hiring some new reviewers to deal with the deluge of migrating SS submitters. :-\
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The news is indeed big but I simply can't understand why SS has done that.
With both sites being non-exclusive I don't expect BigStock to add big (if any) value to SS collection.
Speaking about credit-based sales I can't believe that buying an existing established business and integrating it with the SS is any cheaper than to design a piece of interface at SS.
Customer base? But it must be several times smaller in BSB than what SS has...
So what's the catch?
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So they did not buy Cutcaster, Crestock or FeaturePics which would be much cheaper than one of big 6. I guess it's not about technology cause BigStock got one of the worse sites they should take CS for that. It's probably not about customers cause they already got more than mentioned sites combined. This leaves with eliminating competition option. BigStock become store front for SS. One thing left is, maybe they want to move it up to premium area so they can have a playground for competing with Getty without harming their core business.
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The news is indeed big but I simply can't understand why SS has done that.
With both sites being non-exclusive I don't expect BigStock to add big (if any) value to SS collection.
Speaking about credit-based sales I can't believe that buying an existing established business and integrating it with the SS is any cheaper than to design a piece of interface at SS.
Customer base? But it must be several times smaller in BSB than what SS has...
So what's the catch?
I was going to point out that BigStock already has a decent customer base __ but then, after a quick check of the numbers, I've realised that I actually make 2-3x more per month from OD sales at SS than I do from BigStock. If the OD sales at SS were a seperate agency then they'd already be more than twice the size of BigStock.
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What I think it happening is that sites are consolidating to increase their margins and revenues. Its part of an industry that starts to mature to find an equilibrium thats worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if 4 main big sites compete with each other and try to differentiate their product offerings to be able to charge a higher price. Wait and see I guess, but its not shocking at all that this has happened. It would be interesting to see if DT and FT woudl consider a merge to fight off the SS and IS market eating machine
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And to think that I was just about to cancel my account with BigStock after the 90 day wait because the sales were so marginal. Now instead I'll make a point of uploading there again and see what happens.Just for fun, they could go with a name amalgamation and have something like "Big Shutterstock Photo" just like Istock and Stockxpert could go with "IstockXpert".
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PLEASE-O-PLEASE import Big Stock Photos upload system into Shutterstocks site!!! Shutterstock uploading is so arcane compared to all the other agencies.
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no the latest version of BigStock upload is really horrible.
SS system isn't perfect but is much more time efficient.
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maybe this will solve tax for users from non treaty counties ::)
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Hopefully they redesign that god awful website. ;)
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PLEASE-O-PLEASE import Big Stock Photos upload system into Shutterstocks site!!! Shutterstock uploading is so arcane compared to all the other agencies.
You are joking __ right?
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The only thing I'd like to see changed in Shutterstock's submission system is an easy way to select a bunch of images and apply the same release to them. Other than that, they're about the fastest and easiest to submit to.
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I hope this brings more buyers to BigStock. More investing in marketing should help there.
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How can a reduction in competition be good for contributors? This shakeout is part of the of stock imagery. When everyone is selling the exact same products in shops essentially next door to each other, there is nothing left to compete on but price, and soon all the margin is gone.
Eventually every photo is available on every site. For 10 cents.
Tell me why I'm wrong.
Competition results in LOWER prices. The LACK of competition results in higher prices!
Example: One gas station in a one hundred mile stretch of highway. = $6.00 per gallon
add 50 more gas stations to the same highway = $3.50 per gallon.
I wish about 20 RF sites would dry up and fade away now. Start on the list at the right of this page work your way up from the bottom.
-Larry
Well you're right of course. Somehow while editing my post, I chopped it up so it didn't make sense. What I was trying to say was that the current situation of next-door stores with the same products has commoditized stock imagery and reduced the price (and margin) to almost nothing. I interpret the sales of agencies like BigStock and StockXpert as signs of failure due to commodity pricing. So this shakeout reinforces my feeling that the micostock model is hitting the wall.
If only one or two so-called 'microstocks' are left standing, you are correct that the prices to customers could go up. But since it's been brought so low, that would face huge resistance from buyers. Meanwhile contributors have shown zero resistance to lowered commissions, so they're not likely to go up no matter what.
Just my usual doom and gloom...
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PLEASE-O-PLEASE import Big Stock Photos upload system into Shutterstocks site!!! Shutterstock uploading is so arcane compared to all the other agencies.
You are joking __ right?
No actually, I'm not, I shoot and submit large batches (read: 100's of shots), and I've always gotten all my stuff up on Big Stock Photo WAY faster than Shutterstock. The lack of batch anything at Shutterstock really slows things down. How could it possibly be worse? I suppose if you don't keyword offline or shoot image series type stuff it wouldn't matter.
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Oh no. I hope they won't kill BigStock. I don't like SS's business model. :(
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no the latest version of BigStock upload is really horrible.
SS system isn't perfect but is much more time efficient.
^^ Totally agree. I can appreciate the effort that went into the new BigStock system, but the result has definitely left me cold.
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Oh no. I hope they won't kill BigStock. I don't like SS's business model. :(
They won't kill it, they plan to pump it up actually.... They bought it BECAUSE of its credit based system.
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no the latest version of BigStock upload is really horrible.
SS system isn't perfect but is much more time efficient.
^^ Totally agree. I can appreciate the effort that went into the new BigStock system, but the result has definitely left me cold.
Really? I don't exactly like the new one better necessarily, but it's not too difficult to utilize.
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The new upload system on BigStock is WAY better. Way faster to upload 100 images.
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Really? I don't exactly like the new one better necessarily, but it's not too difficult to utilize.
To me it is a PITA to have to remember every time I select multiple images for categories to remember to check that little box so the keywords of each image are preserved. If I happen to forget then all of a sudden I am spamming because keywords from one image is applied to all selected images.
So far I haven't forgotten but it is probably only a matter of time... :-\
Also wondering if the folks who think it's easy are uploading mostly non-model released images?
Having to break out my uploads into the similars with the same model and then go to the next screen with each group to assign releases, then back to the category/keywording area for the next batch is time consuming and clunky.
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Really? I don't exactly like the new one better necessarily, but it's not too difficult to utilize.
To me it is a PITA to have to remember every time I select multiple images for categories to remember to check that little box so the keywords of each image are preserved. If I happen to forget then all of a sudden I am spamming because keywords from one image is applied to all selected images.
So far I haven't forgotten but it is probably only a matter of time... :-\
Also wondering if the folks who think it's easy are uploading mostly non-model released images?
Having to break out my uploads into the similars with the same model and then go to the next screen with each group to assign releases, then back to the category/keywording area for the next batch is time consuming and clunky.
Oh yeah, that's right. I had forgotten that all the information could be erased by failing to tick off the little check box. That is an annoyance. And I never do deal with model releases. So no opinion for that. :)
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To me it is a PITA to have to remember every time I select multiple images for categories to remember to check that little box so the keywords of each image are preserved. If I happen to forget then all of a sudden I am spamming because keywords from one image is applied to all selected images.
So far I haven't forgotten but it is probably only a matter of time... :-\
I think it would be MUCH better if the little box is checked by default. BigStock, are you listening? :)
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...and unselecting wrongly guessed categories is a huge pain (usually 2 out of 3)
...and too easy to submit images without releases attached
the principle resembles how it is done by Crestock, but BigStock made it much worse
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Ok... iStock and StockXpert, SS and BigStock, Veer and Snap, so do I hear a bid for a DT and Fotolia merger???
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Really? I don't exactly like the new one better necessarily, but it's not too difficult to utilize.
To me it is a PITA to have to remember every time I select multiple images for categories to remember to check that little box so the keywords of each image are preserved. If I happen to forget then all of a sudden I am spamming because keywords from one image is applied to all selected images.
So far I haven't forgotten but it is probably only a matter of time... :-\
Also wondering if the folks who think it's easy are uploading mostly non-model released images?
Having to break out my uploads into the similars with the same model and then go to the next screen with each group to assign releases, then back to the category/keywording area for the next batch is time consuming and clunky.
I'm uploading hundreds of model released shots with speedy ease. I think you might have deeper internal workflow kinks to work out. Most upload systems are slow if you approach them with some kind of erratic or unorganized approach. All my shots and release files are strategically named, and it drastically increases my uploading speed. Going back and forth doesn't feel clunky to me, not nearly as much as having to scroll threw hundreds of drop down menus to complete the *same task* over at SS and some other agencies.
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Ok... iStock and StockXpert, SS and BigStock, Veer and Snap, so do I hear a bid for a DT and Fotolia merger???
It will be possible in next realise... ;D after Vista final vetta betta an even before next wonderful Mitjototoft operajtijonjal cyctem really really final Alpha...
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This is a pretty interesting move. I doubt it will have much impact overall on the contributors uploading to both sites. I imagine that Shutterstock has been declining in profits the past year with the heavy marketing of subscriptions by the competitors. In my opinion they are the most limited in potential of all the micros as they require such a commitment from their buyers that isn't necessary elsewhere unless they truly want it.
Someone made the point earlier in this thread that the content of their database isn't unique either with the majority of photographers dumping their images in every site that will take them. If I had to guess I would imagine they were in a corner that forced them to either make a move or move out of the way.
I wonder how much they paid.
Mat
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Let's look at the possible results from this merger...
- We sell more images through BigStock because SS heavily promotes it. Likely? Possible, but those sales would have otherwise occured at another site. I can't see this deal creating new customers, just convincing customers to buy from BigStock instead of somewhere else. If you're well positioned on BigStock compared to the sites that might lose share, you come out ahead.
- SS/BigStock makes more money, and they pass it along to contributors. Likely? Don't hold your breath. As long as the rise in contributors outpaces the rise in customers, they wouldn't see much incentive to start paying us more.
- SS and BigStock co-exist as separate sites with separate libraries. Likely? Doesn't make much sense. Companies merge when the buyers see the opportunity to capture more revenue while cutting costs out of the equation. [(SS revenue + BigStock revenue) - (SS costs + BigStock costs)] isn't as profitable as [(SS revenue + BigStock revenue) - (SS costs)].
Companies just don't go around buying competitors and allowing them to continue operating as it always did, keeping prices down at both the parent company and the acquired company. Just as most people expect StockXpert to go away soon, with those customers moving into the iStock fold, we will probably see the same thing happen with SS and BigStock, as soon as an SS credit-based model is in place.
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^^^I think SS should be able to run the 2 sites much more cheaply. Lots of us have our entire portfolios on both sites, they now only need to store one. Our images are being reviewed twice, they might be able to do one review for both sites. There must be lots of other costs they can save. We probably wont see any of the extra money but it might help BigStock to grow. The internet is growing all the time and I am sure there are more potential buyers out there.
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People often talk like the market is saturated, but yet absolutely everyone I talk to has NO idea what stock photography is, let alone microstock. I still think there are customers out there that could make use of microstock and don't know about it.
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Does BigStock have office in europe? If it does, now when they merge, does it mean we wont pay SS 30% tax on USA sales? :D
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This is a pretty interesting move. I doubt it will have much impact overall on the contributors uploading to both sites. I imagine that Shutterstock has been declining in profits the past year with the heavy marketing of subscriptions by the competitors. In my opinion they are the most limited in potential of all the micros as they require such a commitment from their buyers that isn't necessary elsewhere unless they truly want it.
Someone made the point earlier in this thread that the content of their database isn't unique either with the majority of photographers dumping their images in every site that will take them. If I had to guess I would imagine they were in a corner that forced them to either make a move or move out of the way.
I wonder how much they paid.
Mat
Mat, you may have hit the nail on the head. Most contributors have more images on SS than last year and their downloads sales have decreased. I think BigStock needed a buyer and SS is interested in expanding . Credit sales at SS is not setting the world on fire and now they can introduce BigStock.
My question is not about site improvements or upload changes. My question is this better or worst for contributer?
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I'm optimistic that this will work in our favor. Both agencies have treated me well, with few if any moments of what? decision making. The only problem with BigStock is the revenue it generates; a serious marketing effort could make all the difference. If they see synergy, I'm happy to sit back and watch them, ummmm, synergies.
I would hold the 'yippee's' for a while, for the existing BigStock contributors the flood of new artists migrating from SS will only dilute the revenue far greater than any new marketing can generate 'new sales', as there are limited new markets this move could be just a way to use the SS brand to try to attract Customers from the other 'Credits' agencies existing markets, costs can be reduced to increase profits by bringing both server farms, inspection and administration to SS, when companies are aquired it is not often that the suppliers benefit from the deal.
This move will consolidate SS in the market but will not really benefit the existing BigStock artists that have helped to build the brand, IS and SS both grew thier models as pioneeers in microstock the growth has now peaked and consolidation by aqusition is the new direction.
David (sorry to pee on the fire)
Agree. Many SS contributers who have looked down on BigStock are now jumping on the bandwagon. While revenue at BigStock, SX, and DT have continued to rise for me. The dilution at SS has caused my revenue there to slowly dwindle to the point that it is no longer a lock for first place each month.
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I never looked at BigStock before. This (http://www.bigstockphoto.com/aboutus.html) is interesting:
Truly Royalty-Free
Additionally, our royalty-free licensing agreements cover usages that other so called "royalty-free" agreements fail to offer - such as use within web design templates. If you are a creator and seller of web design templates most services like Getty and Photodisc, etc. limit your ability to resell your templates with their so called "royalty-free" photos in them - but not at BigStockPhoto!
Is that the same at Shutterstock?
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People often talk like the market is saturated, but yet absolutely everyone I talk to has NO idea what stock photography is, let alone microstock. I still think there are customers out there that could make use of microstock and don't know about it.
I think this is true for both buyers and contributors. There are a lot more people that microstock could bring in. Microstock isn't in its infancy anymore, but it may just be a toddler.
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I never looked at BigStock before. This ([url]http://www.bigstockphoto.com/aboutus.html[/url]) is interesting:
Truly Royalty-Free
Additionally, our royalty-free licensing agreements cover usages that other so called "royalty-free" agreements fail to offer - such as use within web design templates. If you are a creator and seller of web design templates most services like Getty and Photodisc, etc. limit your ability to resell your templates with their so called "royalty-free" photos in them - but not at BigStockPhoto!
Is that the same at Shutterstock?
No, it most certainly is not.
At SS, and most other microsites, such use requires the purchase of an extended license.
That's a very interesting (and disappointing) quote, if it really means that the standard license allows use in a web design template. If so, I hope one change that SS makes immediately is to the terms of BigStock's standard license.
Good catch!
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I have pics on BigStock but not on SS. Could it be possible to upload the first 10 submissions from BigStock to SS? In other words - if they're acceptable on BigStock would they be acceptable on SS?
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if they're acceptable on BigStock would they be acceptable on SS?
It seems that for now the two sites are still running as individual entities, so I would think that they still have different reviewers.
Just a guess...
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I have pics on BigStock but not on SS. Could it be possible to upload the first 10 submissions from BigStock to SS? In other words - if they're acceptable on BigStock would they be acceptable on SS?
NO! Just because one approver liked them, the next may hate them. Every submission to nearly anysite will get a different approver and you never know what they are going to like or dislike.
Just submit your 10 best. (and a small prayer may help)
-Larry
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I never looked at BigStock before. This ([url]http://www.bigstockphoto.com/aboutus.html[/url]) is interesting:
Truly Royalty-Free
Additionally, our royalty-free licensing agreements cover usages that other so called "royalty-free" agreements fail to offer - such as use within web design templates. If you are a creator and seller of web design templates most services like Getty and Photodisc, etc. limit your ability to resell your templates with their so called "royalty-free" photos in them - but not at BigStockPhoto!
Is that the same at Shutterstock?
No, it most certainly is not.
At SS, and most other microsites, such use requires the purchase of an extended license.
That's a very interesting (and disappointing) quote, if it really means that the standard license allows use in a web design template. If so, I hope one change that SS makes immediately is to the terms of BigStock's standard license.
Good catch!
pretty sure they werent referring to the standard license:
http://www.bigstockphoto.com/licensing-buyers.html (http://www.bigstockphoto.com/licensing-buyers.html)
BigStock has over a dozen special licenses that photographers can opt-in for - the costs are more in line with ELs elsewhere
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pretty sure they werent referring to the standard license:
[url]http://www.bigstockphoto.com/licensing-buyers.html[/url] ([url]http://www.bigstockphoto.com/licensing-buyers.html[/url])
That's good to hear. But in that case, I'm not sure the rest of their point is accurate. AFAIK, all other microstock sites also offer extended licenses to cover using the image in a web design template. Perhaps they were referring to macro sites when they wrote that.
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if they're acceptable on BigStock would they be acceptable on SS?
It seems that for now the two sites are still running as individual entities, so I would think that they still have different reviewers.
Just a guess...
Every agency has their own guidelines for reviewing it seems. New reviewers VS. seasoned reviewers makes a difference I believe.
If a picture is good and there are no technical problems and good compositions no matter if a reviewer likes it, it should be passed. There are some things reviewers are not to pass because the agency is too flooded with that subject and again, all agencies are different on what those things are.
I agree with leaf, I do not think that it is saturated and I too think alot of people do not realize what microstock photography is.
Sure there are new contributors all the time but it doesn't mean all their images are accepted. Their images have to live up to the guidelines and alot of the newbies get alot declined till they get the hang of what the agency wants and expects from their images.
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<...
I agree with leaf, I do not think that it is saturated and I too think alot of people do not realize what microstock photography is.
>...
A lot of potential customers will never find microstock as they will never look, but they would become customers if the delivery and payment method was different.
There is lots of software out there where you can add your own image but only point to your hard drive for the images , the agencies need to get thier act together and plug this gap and open the marketplace with pay-per-download from the application or browser.
Shutterstock's will likely keep the two entities seperate but streamline the cost side of the business, this is normal practice with aqusitions, cut and streamline the staff, servers, premises, marketing, development, R&D and other costs, this increases profits, then tweek the software to make the business viable.
David ;)
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Has anyone observed any increase in sales at BigStock after this announcement? Some people in their forum have, but I have'nt sold anything in the past days. :-\
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Just sold my first pic on BS Sept 4th. Just hope this won't go like Snapvillage when they did thier thing with Veer. My pics were gone for good on that one.
I had the same experience but send them an email and got my pics back.....but not that $.5 of the single sale I had:):)
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Has anyone observed any increase in sales at BigStock after this announcement? Some people in their forum have, but I have'nt sold anything in the past days. :-\
No, no sales for me since the announcement - certainly could do with a boost!
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Has anyone observed any increase in sales at BigStock after this announcement? Some people in their forum have, but I have'nt sold anything in the past days. :-\
I did. I sold few images in last 3 days, including one for $2 today.
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I had a very good day on the 23, the day the announcement was made. But yesterday and today are back to being average.
I expect the real sales boost will be in a few months after they get organized and do an advertising blitz.
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Has anyone observed any increase in sales at BigStock after this announcement? Some people in their forum have, but I have'nt sold anything in the past days. :-\
10 downloads in the first 24 hours. Like Lisafx now back to normal.
What will the new normal be next month or so?
-Larry
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Has anyone observed any increase in sales at BigStock after this announcement? Some people in their forum have, but I have'nt sold anything in the past days. :-\
No, no sales for me since the announcement - certainly could do with a boost!
I have a better than average month so far but no sales since the announcement.
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wow...now that is news ::)
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Interesting :) I'll keep an eye on BigStock to see how it goes .
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Sept 4th - my one and only sale on BigStock!
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I don't get excited about SS. My perspective is this - in the last few months I've built up a portfolio of about 100 shots. My acceptance rate is good, and they all sell. But new ones no longer sell enough to make it worthwhile.
As I've gone from 20 shots to 100, my sales haven't increased, in fact they've gone down. In the early months I got occasional OD sales but since the start of August it's been 100% sub sales at 25 cents. On IS and DT, my sales have increased along with the size of the portfolio. On SS, it's a flat line.
So, SS buys another microstock, to me there's no good news in that announcement because the SS 'model' isn't working for me.
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I don't get excited about SS. My perspective is this - in the last few months I've built up a portfolio of about 100 shots. My acceptance rate is good, and they all sell. But new ones no longer sell enough to make it worthwhile.
As I've gone from 20 shots to 100, my sales haven't increased, in fact they've gone down. In the early months I got occasional OD sales but since the start of August it's been 100% sub sales at 25 cents. On IS and DT, my sales have increased along with the size of the portfolio. On SS, it's a flat line.
So, SS buys another microstock, to me there's no good news in that announcement because the SS 'model' isn't working for me.
Yep SS sales have been on the slide for a very long time. They are nothing like as good as they were one or two years ago.
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given the overall state of the world economy, and how that affects the primary USERS of microstock, i think just staying even is a reasonable achievement
steve
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given the overall state of the world economy, and how that affects the primary USERS of microstock, i think just staying even is a reasonable achievement
steve
Some truth to that. But what really discourages me is that I was making more money on SS in March - with 20 images - than I am now, with 100.
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given the overall state of the world economy, and how that affects the primary USERS of microstock, i think just staying even is a reasonable achievement
steve
Some truth to that. But what really discourages me is that I was making more money on SS in March - with 20 images - than I am now, with 100.
I think you need to, in part, put this down to 'new portfolio' honeymoon period.
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I think you need to, in part, put this down to 'new portfolio' honeymoon period.
Well the honeymoon is over, that's for sure.
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But what really discourages me is that I was making more money on SS in March - with 20 images - than I am now, with 100.
Well maybe your first 20 images were the most saleable? Your portfolio is still tiny and therefore sales are bound to be less stable than with a portfolio of a few thousand. I'm on target to sell a few more this month than I did in March but during which time my portfolio has grown from about 3100 - 3500.
I wouldn't disagree that it is getting tougher though __ much tougher. When you have 90K new images coming on-line every week then there's going to be a lot of competition for sales and only the very best images will get noticed. Quality is becoming everything, volume is pointless unless the quality is there.
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only the very best images will get noticed. Quality is becoming everything, volume is pointless unless the quality is there.
I agree 100%
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Don't know if this is a coincidence or not but BigStock has pick up a lot over the last week . . . I hope its the influence from SS. Anyone else seeing changes in sales for the better?
E
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Me too, but maybe it's the placebo effect.
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Don't know if this is a coincidence or not but BigStock has pick up a lot over the last week . . . I hope its the influence from SS. Anyone else seeing changes in sales for the better?
E
YES! Downloads from BigStock are now running double the normal amount for me. 3-10 per day. I expect this is just the beginning and we will see steady growth in the very near future.
-Larry
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I started with BigStock in May and have to say my performance at that site has been absolutely disappointing so far - just 10 downloads from May until October (yes, that is embarrasingly low and places BigStock very low on my list).
But yesterday I sold four licences - not at the same time, not closely related subjects, so it does not look like the same buyer.
Either this was a big coincidence or sales are really picking up...
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Stockastic wrote: Well the honeymoon is over, that's for sure.
[/quote]
There's is really a kind of honeymoon on SS!
After acceptance as a contributor, you get an extra exposure on SS frontpage for about 6 weeks. That's why you'll get a lot of downloads very quickly. After that you're one of the many and your new files - which are looked at much more than older files - are just a few inbetween the thousands uploaded every day. If these new files have a lot of attention and downloads, they stay in the run. If not, they sink to the bottom and will only be found by the buyer who is really searching for that particular image, if someone is.
On SS the new stuff is looked at the most...a lot of subscribers only go quickly threw the tens of thousands new images, to collect the number of images they sucscribed for. Many downloaded are never used at all.
As the upload of new images on SS is developing in enourmous numbers, the piece for each contributor becomes smaller.
You can "feed the beast", because threw your newest uploads you have the change that buyers find more of your images of their interest. You'll find out that after 1 or 2 weeks not uploading, your overall downloads go down to < 50%. Feeding the beast is uploading a few images once or twice a week, to have attention with your portfolio.
In the longer run, your statistics wil slowly grow this way. Don't look to much to the first months!
When your total earnings go over 500 dollars (that will take some months), you'll get a boost because you'll earn 30% more for each download.
0,25 > 0,33! 1,60 > 2,48.
Each agency has it's own strategy. On the long run SS is one of the best earners. The influence of the market and the economical crisis might be there...but what you're looking at is a kind of pattern, each contributor to SS experiences.
regards! ;D ;D
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Stockastic wrote: Well the honeymoon is over, that's for sure.
There's is really a kind of honeymoon on SS!.....
In the longer run, your statistics wil slowly grow this way. Don't look to much to the first months!
[/quote]
I'm wondering if EVERYONE has experienced the honeymoon effect at SS, or if a certain percent has sold steady continuously right from the beginning?
I joined SS about 11 months ago and things have been steady... no honeymoon effect here, unless I'm still in it and not aware of it. My RPI at SS, and across pretty much all the sites, has held steady since the beginning.
To all the SS veterans... has anyone had a honeymoon effect that lasted a year or longer, or if I haven't experienced a fall-off yet should I expect a steady RPI if I maintain my frequency of uploads and keep diversifying my portfolio?
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One of my images was used by digital photographer magazine to announce this!! was so happy :p
http://news.dphotographer.co.uk/news/shutterstock-announces-acquisition-of-bigstockphoto/ (http://news.dphotographer.co.uk/news/shutterstock-announces-acquisition-of-bigstockphoto/)
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very nice, congrats, perfect photo for the announcement!
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I joined SS about 11 months ago and things have been steady... no honeymoon effect here, unless I'm still in it and not aware of it. My RPI at SS, and across pretty much all the sites, has held steady since the beginning.
To all the SS veterans... has anyone had a honeymoon effect that lasted a year or longer, or if I haven't experienced a fall-off yet should I expect a steady RPI if I maintain my frequency of uploads and keep diversifying my portfolio?
I've been with SS from the start and I'm not aware of this 'honeymoon period'. I think it's yet another myth for a newbie to grasp to explain few sales (rather than the more likely reason that their images may not be that saleable in comparison to the competition). Most newbies will probably upload their very best images first, which may have taken them years to take, and then the quality drops as they start to scrape the barrel of their hard drive. In the early days pretty much anything would sell as there were relatively few images but that is not the case nowadays.
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only the very best images will get noticed. Quality is becoming everything, volume is pointless unless the quality is there.
I agree 100%
Agree also and there should be lots of useless images deleted from the collection. More than what is now. It's weird sometimes to see some accounts with 1000 and more images online and less than 500 sales...
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One of my images was used by digital photographer magazine to announce this!! was so happy :p
[url]http://news.dphotographer.co.uk/news/shutterstock-announces-acquisition-of-bigstockphoto/[/url] ([url]http://news.dphotographer.co.uk/news/shutterstock-announces-acquisition-of-bigstockphoto/[/url])
Great photo Anton! Congratulations!
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Don't know if this is a coincidence or not but BigStock has pick up a lot over the last week . . . I hope its the influence from SS. Anyone else seeing changes in sales for the better?
E
YES! Downloads from BigStock are now running double the normal amount for me. 3-10 per day. I expect this is just the beginning and we will see steady growth in the very near future.
-Larry
Must be a search engine change. My sales there have dropped like a rock this month.
Seriously, they are back to sales levels from two years or more ago for me (when my portfolio was half the current size).
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Don't know if this is a coincidence or not but BigStock has pick up a lot over the last week . . . I hope its the influence from SS. Anyone else seeing changes in sales for the better?
E
YES! Downloads from BigStock are now running double the normal amount for me. 3-10 per day. I expect this is just the beginning and we will see steady growth in the very near future.
-Larry
Must be a search engine change. My sales there have dropped like a rock this month.
Seriously, they are back to sales levels from two years or more ago for me (when my portfolio was half the current size).
It may be the subject that is in question. Your port is great Lisafx, but how much of it is "Milwaukee" "Wisconsin" and "Golf" as these subjects are 2/3 of my downloads. I think when one person is having a bad month another is having a great one ...... just depending on subjects being bought.
Plus your on SS and I am not .... could the sales be going to SS customers? (that may never have seen mine)
-Larry
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It may be the subject that is in question. Your port is great Lisafx, but how much of it is "Milwaukee" "Wisconsin" and "Golf" as these subjects are 2/3 of my downloads. I think when one person is having a bad month another is having a great one ...... just depending on subjects being bought.
Plus your on SS and I am not .... could the sales be going to SS customers? (that may never have seen mine)
-Larry
Nope, unfortunately no rise in SS sales either.
Normally my portfolio is fairly well insulated from seasonal ups and downs just by sheer size and scope. With this dramatic drop after years of predictable (if unexciting) sales at BigStock I would be inclined to think either there has been a best match change or an exodus of buyers after the announcement of the buyout. With so many seeing sales spike there it is more likely to be the former than the latter.
Either that or I need to book a flight to Milwaukee and invest in some golf clubs ;)
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No, I think talk of the 'spike' is exaggerated and of course spikes of a few sales do make a big splash in what is normally a very shallow pond (if I'm not mixing my metaphors too much).
I've had a few recent remarkably good days of late .. followed by very little. At the end of the month it tends to be 'same old, same old' at best.
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That's exactly what I have been experiending there lately. I have a few excellent days and think that I am going to have an amazing month and then it is followed by virtually nothing for a few days. But as you say it all evens out.
I've had a few recent remarkably good days of late .. followed by very little. At the end of the month it tends to be 'same old, same old' at best.
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Must be a search engine change. My sales there have dropped like a rock this month.
Seriously, they are back to sales levels from two years or more ago for me (when my portfolio was half the current size).
Me too. Sales have just suddenly fallen off the map at SS for my portfolio, but there have been a few good days in the last week or so. But I agree - something has changed.
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Must be a search engine change. My sales there have dropped like a rock this month.
Seriously, they are back to sales levels from two years or more ago for me (when my portfolio was half the current size).
For me on SS is all the same, but on BigStock everything just stopped. Today is the 15th of the month, and I have zero images sold so far.
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I have never done particularly well at BS but the last few days have been great including an almost 60$ EL. I think it's my first ever EL on that site. It looks like they have done a best match re-shuffle if some of us have improved drastically and some are doing much worse.
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Question from SS forum: "For those of us who are not on BigStock - would it make sense to start uploading our images there, or will you eventually copy them there?"
No immediate plans - so best to upload to both. We'll make sure to make it worth your while :)
Jon
What a big crap! Even if they copy our portfolio's to BS, when SS drops the OD-program and managed to send buyers to BS for OD's we'll lose big time, because OD's at SS are worth 2,85 and on BS only a louzy 1,50.
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I've been on Shutterstock for four years now and I at least reach payout every month, except for a few times. I never experienced a honeymoon, but do believe you must feed the beast on ALL sites to keep your sales rolling. At times I have spikes where I do exceptionally well in sales, but it's been difficult to see any lasting jump.
On BigStock, the sales have never been as good, but again, they have been fairly steady over the four years. Despite constantly uploading to both sites, they sales have not increased proportionately...they have remained fairly steady.
I'm not sure how I will be able to get any kind of large increase in sales, unless I uploaded hundreds over a week or so and substantially increased the size of my portfolio. And I think the best way for me to increase sales would be to upload a lot of people shots.
It will be interesting to see where SS and BigStock end up in the race.
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It will be interesting to see where SS and BigStock end up in the race.
The most interesting thing will be to see how they handle 2 competing products (OD-EL) under one roof. The same problem that Getty has with iStock and StockXpert. Will they cannibalize one site to make the original workhorse stronger? Hardly a good strategy since it would waste the digital assets of BigStock and just build traffic. A hostile buyout seems not likely since BigStock has no subscriptions. In the long run SS and BigStock have to be streamlined to work together with a scale and market advantage, and that will be very interesting to watch.
For now, Getty still seems not have made their mind up about StockXpert, since it's business as usual there, with still photos.com sales.
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What a big crap! Even if they copy our portfolio's to BS, when SS drops the OD-program and managed to send buyers to BS for OD's we'll lose big time, because OD's at SS are worth 2,85 and on BS only a louzy 1,50.
Did BigStock change their commission structure recently?
According to the info I keep, BigStock's commission for a 4-5MP image is $2. For 11MP and bigger, the commission is $3.
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What a big crap! Even if they copy our portfolio's to BS, when SS drops the OD-program and managed to send buyers to BS for OD's we'll lose big time, because OD's at SS are worth 2,85 and on BS only a louzy 1,50.
Did BigStock change their commission structure recently?
According to the info I keep, BigStock's commission for a 4-5MP image is $2. For 11MP and bigger, the commission is $3.
I read that on the SS forums, so I assumed those prices I mentioned were correct, but I can be wrong.
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It will be interesting to see where SS and BigStock end up in the race.
The most interesting thing will be to see how they handle 2 competing products (OD-EL) under one roof. The same problem that Getty has with iStock and StockXpert. Will they cannibalize one site to make the original workhorse stronger? Hardly a good strategy since it would waste the digital assets of BigStock and just build traffic. A hostile buyout seems not likely since BigStock has no subscriptions. In the long run SS and BigStock have to be streamlined to work together with a scale and market advantage, and that will be very interesting to watch.
For now, Getty still seems not have made their mind up about StockXpert, since it's business as usual there, with still photos.com sales.
I've probably pointed this out, in the soft drink market, Coke has 450 different brands of products. Pepsi has less, but both are selling carbonated, colored, flavored, water. There's no reason why Getty can't have all their multiple sites and ways to sell images and no reason why Corbis won't continue with multiple sites selling the same type of product under different names. It's all about branding, not necessarily about having a different or the same products.
Some people estimate that 80% of all the microstock photos are the same across most of the sites. (iStock is the one that's different) So if you go to SS, DT, FT, BigStock, CS, StockXpert Etc. and on and on, you'll get mostly the same photos being offered. In the case of the smaller sites, you'll get photos that the big ones rejected. I don't see that as some advantage that they offer lower quality, less desirable images.
The whole point of selling products and brands where one may compete with their main line, is market share! It's that simple. If Corbis/SS had 40% of the microstock market and BigStock has 5% (made those number up) Now SS has 45% of the market. Getty owns so many brands and agencies, it's difficult to define them for what market they are actually addressing in some cases. But there's no doubt that they compete with themselves in many areas.
Big agencies don't buy smaller agencies to shut them down. They buy them for a bigger piece of the pie. :D
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Big agencies don't buy smaller agencies to shut them down. They buy them for a bigger piece of the pie.
I agree. When I was researching the idea of posting to several sites, I kept reading over and over about how they all have different markets. Seems silly, but it's why somebody can sell an RF photo on one site for $1 and sell the exact same photo on another for $10. I don't care how it works, I'm just happy it does!
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What a big crap! Even if they copy our portfolio's to BS, when SS drops the OD-program and managed to send buyers to BS for OD's we'll lose big time, because OD's at SS are worth 2,85 and on BS only a louzy 1,50.
Did BigStock change their commission structure recently?
According to the info I keep, BigStock's commission for a 4-5MP image is $2. For 11MP and bigger, the commission is $3.
I read that on the SS forums, so I assumed those prices I mentioned were correct, but I can be wrong.
I just went to BigStock and looked up by last 50 sales. It is definitely size-based, and ranges from $0.50 - $3.00.
10 of my last 10 sales were all for $0.50. >:( But at least they are getting a fairly small size for that commission (about 0.6MP), so I have no problem with that.
Here's the complete breakdown for my last 50 BigStock sales:
50% $0.50
26% $1.00
22% $2.00
02% $3.00
By comparison, here's the breakdown of my last 50 SS sales:
92% $0.33
02% $1.07
06% $2.48
So from those figures alone, I'm much better off at BigStock than SS. But there's one thing missing from those results -- time:
My last 50 BigStock sales goes all the way back to July 22; for SS, that's Oct 30 (3 days after my most recent BigStock sale!).
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My last 50 BigStock sales goes all the way back to July 22; for SS, that's Oct 30 (3 days after my most recent BigStock sale!).
Agree with KB - the problem is Volume! My sales at BigStock would have to nearly triple to make up for the loss of SS OD income.
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Here is the Bigstock pricing
Smaller images, 900px = 1 credit
Medium images, 1600px = 2 credits
Large images, 2800px = 4 credits
Extra large images & vector files, 3800px = 6 credits
1 credit costs anywhere from $1.00 - $2.50 depending how many credits are purchased.
We get $.50 for every credit spent.