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Author Topic: Highest price for a photo on Shutterstock.  (Read 12663 times)

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« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2021, 11:54 »
+4
Just so people will know that I am not blowing smoke, this is the file I made $510 this year from SS.

Check out the following image on Shutterstock - A global marketplace for creativity: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/1534144853


SVH

« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2021, 12:03 »
+2
Just so people will know that I am not blowing smoke, this is the file I made $510 this year from SS.

Check out the following image on Shutterstock - A global marketplace for creativity: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/1534144853

That's funny. It states 'never used' :)

« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2021, 12:15 »
0
I don't have a single file on SS. I deactivated immediately and deleted all my portfolio a few months later of their commission cut.
I have 21k images and 4k videos.

Yes you can. I now make over 50.000$ year on photos and videos. It is more tough every year. My peak was at 150.000$ year so yeah feeling the pressure.

I have made over 23k for a photo in the "good old days" and dozens over 2k. Now it is very rare. That's not the game anymore. You should not count on those rare sales

You are right that for retirement and a side income stock is not bad. You probably spent way more on equipment, software, gas, computer, time. But if that's just a hobby it is fine. Usually hobbies don't get any returns at all so. But don't be deluded and take those costs into consideration before saying you made 2000$ in a year if you spent 4000 to get there.

So your stock has shown at National Geographic. Well done. Does it mean something, or will it get to enjoy the national photographer life or revenue. I doubt it. But if that makes you happy go ahead. I understand that people might feel amazing for their 1s of glory.

By the way the market reality is not dependent on SS, as I have not made a single penny on them as they don't carry any of my creative work. So every dollar of the 50k earned has been made somewhere else. Trust me . If your work is good you will get your work purchased . No need to be in the SS cheap marketplace  where you are a small fry among millions of assets and you are being paid 10c a pop

You see . Your reality is different to some that are a little more experienced in this game. Nothing wrong that you go after your reality but take into account that many other ones exist and with a much better return that the loosing Shutterstock proposition.

No one said you can make a living at stock.

But a $1,000 sale for one photo aint bad.

Make your bread somewhere else, but in retirement not a bad gig.

Through stock some of my photos have shown up in National Geographic publications.

So get out if you want to make a living .  As one senior person in Stock told me about people leaving SS because of the cut in commissions good.  Less competition.  By the way, she is not working at SS.

This is simple market reality.

$50.000 still is very impressing! May I ask how many images and videos there are in your Portfolio? And those 50.000 are Not only Fromm shutterstock, I guess?

marthamarks

« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2021, 12:23 »
+2
Make your bread somewhere else, but in retirement not a bad gig.

Through stock some of my photos have shown up in National Geographic publications.


Both of those statements apply to me, too.

Thanks to a successful previous career and my current advanced age, I enjoy the luxury of picking and choosing which commercial stock sites have the privilege of representing my photographic work. If one of them goes off track, I take my business elsewhere.  :)

And when I find my shots published in books like National Geographic Pocket Guide to Birds of North America (2013) and National Geographic Guide to Scenic Highways and Byways (2018), I'm thrilled. It doesn't matter that I didn't get a gazillion dollars for those shots, because I don't need to.

However, as I've written many other times on this forum, I do feel very bad for peopke whose main income comes from stock. So if learning about some contributors' large royalties helps, I'm happy for both those contributors and the others who may be inspired by them.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 12:26 by marthamarks »

Level6

« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2021, 12:33 »
0
     What I find surprising in this post is that some contributors
appear to have no problem allowing the SS to manipulate and
change the original agreement you had with the agency when
you first signed up with them.
     I signed up with the SS in 2009. The signed agreement stated
that I would receive a minimum of $0.35us and I would start as a
Level 1 contributor. If I sold more than 10,000 images I would
move up to Level 2 and earn a minimum $0.38us per image, etc.
HD videos, at the time, started at a minimum $23us per clip and,
like images, increased when you achieved a certain amount of
sales.
     There was nothing in that agreement that stated the SS could
lower commissions or do whatever they * well pleased. It may be
in your agreement if you signed up more recently but in my
original agreement there is nothing stating that the SS would lower
my commission or drop me back to Level 1 whenever they * well
pleased.
     This was a binding agreement. Changing that agreement arbitrarily
is illegal and unethical.
     My hopes that we would launch a Class Action lawsuit against the SS
will not happen based on this post. My apologies if I upset a few
contributors.
     I've learned a lot in this particular post.

The problem is and the agencies know this is no one can afford to sue let alone launch a class action and proceed to trial, the retainer for a law firm alone is more than anyone in this ticket to bankruptcy of a business can afford.

Same like the news media taking anything they can off social media and using it for free, at worst they might be told to take it down but they know the average Twitter user can't afford a lawyer to sue them..

And in the case of these stock agencies, most lawyers will tell you it's a lost cause, move on and spend the time and energy finding a real job.

It's not good.....

marthamarks

« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2021, 12:39 »
+1

If you want to discuss how badly we've been treated by Shutterstock, you'd better open a new topic. But I suspect these topics can already be found on this Microstock forum.

OOOOOHHHHHH, YES!!!

« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2021, 13:15 »
0
The highest sale I've done was when someone bought five of my images for $137.84... each.

Level6

« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2021, 13:16 »
0
Yes you can. I now make over 50.000$ year on photos and videos. It is more tough every year. My peak was at 150.000$ year so yeah feeling the pressure.

I have made over 23k for a photo in the "good old days" and dozens over 2k. Now it is very rare. That's not the game anymore. You should not count on those rare sales

You are right that for retirement and a side income stock is not bad. You probably spent way more on equipment, software, gas, computer, time. But if that's just a hobby it is fine. Usually hobbies don't get any returns at all so. But don't be deluded and take those costs into consideration before saying you made 2000$ in a year if you spent 4000 to get there.

So your stock has shown at National Geographic. Well done. Does it mean something, or will it get to enjoy the national photographer life or revenue. I doubt it. But if that makes you happy go ahead. I understand that people might feel amazing for their 1s of glory.

By the way the market reality is not dependent on SS, as I have not made a single penny on them as they don't carry any of my creative work. So every dollar of the 50k earned has been made somewhere else. Trust me . If your work is good you will get your work purchased . No need to be in the SS cheap marketplace  where you are a small fry among millions of assets and you are being paid 10c a pop

You see . Your reality is different to some that are a little more experienced in this game. Nothing wrong that you go after your reality but take into account that many other ones exist and with a much better return that the loosing Shutterstock proposition.

No one said you can make a living at stock.

But a $1,000 sale for one photo aint bad.

Make your bread somewhere else, but in retirement not a bad gig.

Through stock some of my photos have shown up in National Geographic publications.

So get out if you want to make a living .  As one senior person in Stock told me about people leaving SS because of the cut in commissions good.  Less competition.  By the way, she is not working at SS.

This is simple market reality.

Everest, so you've been there, peaked at $150,000/year, When did you notice a steep drop?, for me and other editorial contributors on Pond5 it was April 1 2019, actually March 15th 2019 but we started to get seriously worried by April 1 and it never recovered.  It was very sudden and very planned.


thijsdegraaf

« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2021, 14:33 »
0
Highest sale this year was a dutch windmill from Kinderdijk for 90 $ and one for 70 $ (flowers). Then still 10 sales between 30 - 40 $ and about 50 sales around 10 $.

During the facebook outage in october one photo on the subject brought me about 160 downloads in one evening only on Shutterstock, which means about 80 $.

And no, I am not a shutterstock agent. ;)

Not bad Ralf, also because there are many photos of Kinderdijk.

thijsdegraaf

« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2021, 14:38 »
0
The highest sale I've done was when someone bought five of my images for $137.84... each.

Wow!! If I sell a few photos at a time to one customer, it's always around ten cents.

« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2021, 15:54 »
0
For me it was 2012 with photos. I started at the end of 2009 with Istock (I was already with Getty) 2010 I made 6000$(only Istock) 2011 60.000 (only Istock) 2012 120.000$ only Istock. 2013 crashed to 70.000 $ (only Istock). Video I started very late in the game. Only 4 years now. Only growth so far around 23k/year. Images have been steadily falling. Nowadays, I make only 2000-2400$ month very far from the hay days in 2012.


[/quote]

Everest, so you've been there, peaked at $150,000/year, When did you notice a steep drop?, for me and other editorial contributors on Pond5 it was April 1 2019, actually March 15th 2019 but we started to get seriously worried by April 1 and it never recovered.  It was very sudden and very planned.
[/quote]

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2021, 17:20 »
+1
$105 for this one and I don't think even think I did a great job to correct the barrel distortion


Level6

« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2021, 20:32 »
0
For me it was 2012 with photos. I started at the end of 2009 with Istock (I was already with Getty) 2010 I made 6000$(only Istock) 2011 60.000 (only Istock) 2012 120.000$ only Istock. 2013 crashed to 70.000 $ (only Istock). Video I started very late in the game. Only 4 years now. Only growth so far around 23k/year. Images have been steadily falling. Nowadays, I make only 2000-2400$ month very far from the hay days in 2012.



Everest, so you've been there, peaked at $150,000/year, When did you notice a steep drop?, for me and other editorial contributors on Pond5 it was April 1 2019, actually March 15th 2019 but we started to get seriously worried by April 1 and it never recovered.  It was very sudden and very planned.
[/quote]
[/quote]


Oh ok, well I guess $2000 - $2400/month is still considered "good" I guess these days in this business, I'd be so happy to get back to that level, for me video sales just went off a cliff around April 1 2019, not just for me but many others are Pond5 as well.




« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2021, 23:07 »
+1
$420 and $350 this year, both editorial, but one of them was far from unique (it was not even unique in my portfolio  ;D)

« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2021, 23:36 »
0
Another new topic. Hopefully that stays alive, because my two topics with Christmas and New Year wishes have been remover (Update: The New Years topic has been moved back  :) ) .
If someone from the management is reading along: I was just on a Dutch nature forum. The management thanked everyone there and wished everyone a nice day. They do that every year.

Well now my question.
I had a sale on December 23 of a close up of the flowers of ragwort (Jacobaea vulgaris) for 9.98 (level 4)https://www.shutterstock.com/nl/image-photo/flowers-seed-heads-ragwort-jacobaea-vulgaris-1799221774  That was the highest amount I've received for a photo from Shutterstock (member for two years). I know from the Shutterstock forum that someone had received over $300, but she mainly photographed American celebrities and I mostly flowers, insects, nature and Dutch buildings, cities.
I'm curious what your highest sales figures are this year at Shutterstock. (Maybe I'm getting all depressed reading the answers  8) )

Thijs, you're really good at getting people to talk about their numbers. How about for the next thread, you can see if people would reveal their RPIs, RPDs, and what subjects they shoot? Then we will all be cooking with gas  :)

Ref: https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/you-have-a-good-photographer-friend-who-says/msg570706/?topicseen#new


RPI = Total Sales / Number of Files
RPD = Total Sales / Number of DLs

Use only one agency (say SS), separate Photos from Videos, and only use Total Sales for 2021 -  to ensure we are comparing apples with apples.

 :)

We have been cooking electrically (induction) Annie for a year now.  ;D  I know Pete's topic (answered one myself)
For me it was all about photos, this year on Shutterstock (I know you sell well too (quite rightly) )
Like many others, I didn't upload anything for three months after the 10 cents introduction and became a member of Alamy and Adobe. I noticed that not uploading didn't work and that I sold less at Adobe and much less at Alamy.
Like many others I started again at Shutterstock (Muratart did the opposite. Murat has added another hundred pages of photos since the last time I checked with him  ::) )
Every now and then I read (in addition to all the complaints) about quite high amounts that were still received for a photo at Shutterstock.
I was curious about that, although I know that the quality and subject of my photos probably contribute to the fact that I won't receive them so soon. I will try a little more, but it must remain a hobby that I enjoy.

Due to the input of level6, this topic is now also about whether you can still earn a good living with Stock. Pete's topic is much more appropriate to answer that question.

Impressive Everest. Thanks.

Thank you Wilm. I suspected something like that because I know your photos of course.

I think you may have misunderstood me, Thijs. I didnt mean the whole of Pete's thread, I meant my first post on top of the page that I linked above - and a few more related ones after that.

If people are to go to all the trouble of talking numbers then those are the numbers, if collected and compared, that would greatly benefit everyone. (ie. the comparison of the average return for different types of subjects. No-one has collected that kind of comprehensive data before, I don't think. And that would be a goldmine of important info.)

But I fully understand your position with microstock and where you are coming from. Sorry to have troubled you. (But definitely an idea if anyone's interested for another thread as I said above.)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 00:23 by Annie »

thijsdegraaf

« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2021, 03:20 »
0
$420 and $350 this year, both editorial, but one of them was far from unique (it was not even unique in my portfolio  ;D)
$105 for this one and I don't think even think I did a great job to correct the barrel distortion

Thank you. It seems that almost everyone has such high sales from time to time. But of course it is only a very small part that reacts.
Not everyone had high expectations of those photos. So there is still hope for me.  ;D

thijsdegraaf

« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2021, 03:58 »
0
Another new topic. Hopefully that stays alive, because my two topics with Christmas and New Year wishes have been remover (Update: The New Years topic has been moved back  :) ) .
If someone from the management is reading along: I was just on a Dutch nature forum. The management thanked everyone there and wished everyone a nice day. They do that every year.

Well now my question.
I had a sale on December 23 of a close up of the flowers of ragwort (Jacobaea vulgaris) for 9.98 (level 4)https://www.shutterstock.com/nl/image-photo/flowers-seed-heads-ragwort-jacobaea-vulgaris-1799221774  That was the highest amount I've received for a photo from Shutterstock (member for two years). I know from the Shutterstock forum that someone had received over $300, but she mainly photographed American celebrities and I mostly flowers, insects, nature and Dutch buildings, cities.
I'm curious what your highest sales figures are this year at Shutterstock. (Maybe I'm getting all depressed reading the answers  8) )

Thijs, you're really good at getting people to talk about their numbers. How about for the next thread, you can see if people would reveal their RPIs, RPDs, and what subjects they shoot? Then we will all be cooking with gas  :)

Ref: https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/you-have-a-good-photographer-friend-who-says/msg570706/?topicseen#new


RPI = Total Sales / Number of Files
RPD = Total Sales / Number of DLs

Use only one agency (say SS), separate Photos from Videos, and only use Total Sales for 2021 -  to ensure we are comparing apples with apples.

 :)

We have been cooking electrically (induction) Annie for a year now.  ;D  I know Pete's topic (answered one myself)
For me it was all about photos, this year on Shutterstock (I know you sell well too (quite rightly) )
Like many others, I didn't upload anything for three months after the 10 cents introduction and became a member of Alamy and Adobe. I noticed that not uploading didn't work and that I sold less at Adobe and much less at Alamy.
Like many others I started again at Shutterstock (Muratart did the opposite. Murat has added another hundred pages of photos since the last time I checked with him  ::) )
Every now and then I read (in addition to all the complaints) about quite high amounts that were still received for a photo at Shutterstock.
I was curious about that, although I know that the quality and subject of my photos probably contribute to the fact that I won't receive them so soon. I will try a little more, but it must remain a hobby that I enjoy.

Due to the input of level6, this topic is now also about whether you can still earn a good living with Stock. Pete's topic is much more appropriate to answer that question.

Impressive Everest. Thanks.

Thank you Wilm. I suspected something like that because I know your photos of course.

I think you may have misunderstood me, Thijs. I didnt mean the whole of Pete's thread, I meant my first post on top of the page that I linked above - and a few more related ones after that.

If people are to go to all the trouble of talking numbers then those are the numbers, if collected and compared, that would greatly benefit everyone. (ie. the comparison of the average return for different types of subjects. No-one has collected that kind of comprehensive data before, I don't think. And that would be a goldmine of important info.)

But I fully understand your position with microstock and where you are coming from. Sorry to have troubled you. (But definitely an idea if anyone's interested for another thread as I said above.)

I see what you mean Annie. Then you should indeed create another topic with a very clear description.


H2O

    This user is banned.
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2021, 09:18 »
+2
Whatever your getting on Shutterstock, just remember, Jon Oringer and his side kick Stan Pavlovsky are getting at least ten times the amount you get paid.

The whole site is run by a bunch of criminals, who have suckered the talent in and are now ripping them off.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2021, 10:50 »
0
Another new topic. Hopefully that stays alive, because my two topics with Christmas and New Year wishes have been remover (Update: The New Years topic has been moved back  :) ) .
If someone from the management is reading along: I was just on a Dutch nature forum. The management thanked everyone there and wished everyone a nice day. They do that every year.

Well now my question.
I had a sale on December 23 of a close up of the flowers of ragwort (Jacobaea vulgaris) for 9.98 (level 4)https://www.shutterstock.com/nl/image-photo/flowers-seed-heads-ragwort-jacobaea-vulgaris-1799221774  That was the highest amount I've received for a photo from Shutterstock (member for two years). I know from the Shutterstock forum that someone had received over $300, but she mainly photographed American celebrities and I mostly flowers, insects, nature and Dutch buildings, cities.
I'm curious what your highest sales figures are this year at Shutterstock. (Maybe I'm getting all depressed reading the answers  8) )

Thijs, you're really good at getting people to talk about their numbers. How about for the next thread, you can see if people would reveal their RPIs, RPDs, and what subjects they shoot? Then we will all be cooking with gas  :)

Ref: https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/you-have-a-good-photographer-friend-who-says/msg570706/?topicseen#new


RPI = Total Sales / Number of Files
RPD = Total Sales / Number of DLs

Use only one agency (say SS), separate Photos from Videos, and only use Total Sales for 2021 -  to ensure we are comparing apples with apples.

 :)

Leaf used to do annual surveys and then worked the data and had some interesting conclusions. And he didn't fudge the numbers or use creative math. What was entered was anonymous which allowed people who wanted to keep their work or name private, could answer.

I know I'm asking Leaf to do much more work than the payback, but maybe the same survey with lees number crunching, could be compared to the older data, before the whole market changed? Like RPD, RPI, gross earnings, and some basic data.

I'm not going to dig back, but people used to report RPIs of $1 or $2 a month.

I think I'm out of stats and numbers. Most are just that, numbers. A way to look back at history and the timeline of how things have changed.

SVH

« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2021, 11:04 »
0
How about for the next thread, you can see if people would reveal their RPIs, RPDs, and what subjects they shoot? Then we will all be cooking with gas  :)

RPI = Total Sales / Number of Files
RPD = Total Sales / Number of DLs

Use only one agency (say SS), separate Photos from Videos, and only use Total Sales for 2021 -  to ensure we are comparing apples with apples.

 :)
 

Hi Annie, why not just start the topic? I'll share. I think lot of people would be interested and willing to share.

« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2021, 12:01 »
+4
     What I find surprising in this post is that some contributors
appear to have no problem allowing the SS to manipulate and
change the original agreement you had with the agency when
you first signed up with them.
     I signed up with the SS in 2009. The signed agreement stated
that I would receive a minimum of $0.35us and I would start as a
Level 1 contributor. If I sold more than 10,000 images I would
move up to Level 2 and earn a minimum $0.38us per image, etc.
HD videos, at the time, started at a minimum $23us per clip and,
like images, increased when you achieved a certain amount of
sales.
     There was nothing in that agreement that stated the SS could
lower commissions or do whatever they * well pleased. It may be
in your agreement if you signed up more recently but in my
original agreement there is nothing stating that the SS would lower
my commission or drop me back to Level 1 whenever they * well
pleased.
     This was a binding agreement. Changing that agreement arbitrarily
is illegal and unethical.
     My hopes that we would launch a Class Action lawsuit against the SS
will not happen based on this post. My apologies if I upset a few
contributors.
     I've learned a lot in this particular post.

You're wrong the contract says, "Please note that Shutterstock reserves the right to modify these terms at any time in its sole discretion, it being understood that no changes shall apply to any pending arbitration proceeding commenced or legal claims asserted prior to such change. Shutterstock will notify you of any such change by an announcement on this page, your login page, and/or by other means to provide you the opportunity to review the modifications before they become effective. Modifications to these TOS will not apply retroactively. By continuing to make Content available through Shutterstock, you agree to be bound by all such changes. If you do not agree with any of the changes, please remove from Shutterstock, pursuant to the terms herein, all or that portion of your Content to which you do not wish the changes to apply."


Nobody started at 35c we all got 25c. There was nothing about selling 10,000 images, your memory is wrong and your facts are wrong. There's no class action suit except in your imagination. No agreement was ever binding forever contract. SS is underhanded and unethical but not illegal.

« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2021, 14:02 »
+2
How about for the next thread, you can see if people would reveal their RPIs, RPDs, and what subjects they shoot? Then we will all be cooking with gas  :)

RPI = Total Sales / Number of Files
RPD = Total Sales / Number of DLs

Use only one agency (say SS), separate Photos from Videos, and only use Total Sales for 2021 -  to ensure we are comparing apples with apples.

 :)
 

Hi Annie, why not just start the topic? I'll share. I think lot of people would be interested and willing to share.

Thanks. The more I think about it, the more I realise it needs a poll. A matrix one with say, SS Categories, down one side, and ranges of RPIs across the top.  (ie. 0 - 0.25c, 25c- 50c, 50c - 1.00, etc)  In that way, it would keep it anonymous. RPIs are very revealing and you can immediately work out how much someone earns if you know how many files they have. So keeping it anonymous is best.

But I dont know how to set that up here. Maybe someone else can help with that?



Pete, I read what you said above, and yes, I now remember Leaf's annual questionnaire and results now.

But if stats are used properly then they can be much, much more than just numbers. All good businesses are run by numbers. Ratio Analysis. And its the comparisons, not the stats themselves, that are important to assist with future decision-making. And after all, we are all in the business of selling photos - whether we like that term or not.  ;D  For example, you wouldn't buy into a business or assess its viability without looking into its ratios compared to industry standards.



But for this exercise, I would suggest basing it just on 2021 total sales figures for SS. To keep it simple and easy to gather data for. And collecting RPIs (total 2021 sales divided by total number of files) for each of the different categories that we shoot for.

The bottom line for all of this, is that we can then decide whether to keep shooting a particular type of subject - or not. Or whether we can try other types of subjects to maximise our income. Then we have choices and thats much more proactive than just looking back and complaining, or feeling downhearted about the whole situation. It may not be the complete solution but it can help.

But just saying I received $100 for my top sale is not enough, in my mind, to make those type of decisions. You could have got next to nothing the rest of the time.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 14:22 by Annie »

« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2021, 14:59 »
0
*

SVH

« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2021, 15:24 »
0
The bottom line for all of this, is that we can then decide whether to keep shooting a particular type of subject - or not. Or whether we can try other types of subjects to maximise our income. Then we have choices and thats much more proactive than just looking back and complaining, or feeling downhearted about the whole situation. It may not be the complete solution but it can help.

But just saying I received $100 for my top sale is not enough, in my mind, to make those type of decisions. You could have got next to nothing the rest of the time.
Totally agree Annie. Good points you are making. I left and then came back with a new account (but even my original account was not that old) so I can't help you out, I don't have the powers to do so, unfortunately.

The funny thing is that I came, to this site, in the first place to find the answers to the questions you are asking, actually. I am sure an old guard here is willing to help you out.

Right folks?

Maybe Brasilnut can help you out. He does it all the time with his own sales, likes the numbers and is a diamond member. What do you say Alexandre?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 15:35 by SVH »

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2021, 06:43 »
0
The bottom line for all of this, is that we can then decide whether to keep shooting a particular type of subject - or not. Or whether we can try other types of subjects to maximise our income. Then we have choices and thats much more proactive than just looking back and complaining, or feeling downhearted about the whole situation. It may not be the complete solution but it can help.

But just saying I received $100 for my top sale is not enough, in my mind, to make those type of decisions. You could have got next to nothing the rest of the time.
Totally agree Annie. Good points you are making. I left and then came back with a new account (but even my original account was not that old) so I can't help you out, I don't have the powers to do so, unfortunately.

The funny thing is that I came, to this site, in the first place to find the answers to the questions you are asking, actually. I am sure an old guard here is willing to help you out.

Right folks?

Maybe Brasilnut can help you out. He does it all the time with his own sales, likes the numbers and is a diamond member. What do you say Alexandre?

Sure, I'll contribute with my own sales...I have little to no hope in this industry anyways so if people want to copy they can go right ahead (good luck traveling these days).


 

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