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Author Topic: I think we need a WELL DESERVED RAISE this year...  (Read 17321 times)

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« on: February 24, 2015, 16:11 »
+54
Since Vincent at Shutterstock locked this thread on their forum. I have decide this discussion needs to be moved to Microstock.


« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2015, 16:37 »
+23
If nothing else, it would be nice to see prices raised at the bottom (subs & small sizes). It's definitely holding back profits (for me).

Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2015, 17:08 »
+3
Agreed.

ruxpriencdiam

    This user is banned.
  • Location. Third stone from the sun
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2015, 17:25 »
-35
Tyler asked and said before to please post a link to threads you are discussing that there is a link to so here it is.

http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145571&start=0

Thing is this is all old news!

SS moved into the ESB easily a year ago and everyone knew all about this and the pizza and game and massage rooms as well!

Thing with all the microstock people that are the ones complining is they never worked a real job in their life!

Some 90%-95% of the micro photogs work for themselves and never had a job where they were on a timeclock or piecerate or salaried!

Google offers this and then some for their employees as do many companies in the real world anymore because they have found out that happy employees are more productive and better overall for the company!

Once all of you micro photogs work as a blue collar worker as an employee for a company that doesn't offer these kind of benefits for 20 or so years and then you see these offers from companies you too would want to work for them.

So stop your crying because someone has what you don't have and do something about it!

All you full time self employed photogs set your own hours and do whatever you want when and how you want with no one to have to report to!

SS offers this as a perk for employees who do their job they get paid to do and they have someone to report to unlike you all do!

Being in the work force my entire life I would love to have had the chance to work for or with a company that treated their employees with a little respect and dignity and offered these type of company perks unlike many do.

The only ones you have to blame for your expenses going up are yourselves.

Micro cost should be dam near nothing for dam near any shoot you do.




ShadySue

« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 17:31 »
+27
Some 90%-95% of the micro photogs work for themselves and never had a job where they were on a timeclock or piecerate or salaried!
98% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Shelma1

« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 17:33 »
+17
Well, I'd like a raise, and I've worked in spaces just as nice as SS's. In fact, the last place I worked had a beer tap built into the kitchen island. Free beer, as much as you like, any time. They also had a stage set up with musical instruments and speakers so you could jam if you wanted to (though it was annoying for the people trying to work). Those were different. The in-house gyms, yoga, free pizza lunches, free bagel or donut Fridays, free neck massages, ping pong tables, basketball courts, I'd all seen before. And of course, the times when you're the client (during shoots or editing) you also got free dinner at four-star restaurants and free spa visits. Yet each year I got a raise!

« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2015, 17:35 »
+1
...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 17:41 by robhainer »

Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2015, 17:49 »
+2
Well, I'd like a raise, and I've worked in spaces just as nice as SS's. In fact, the last place I worked had a beer tap built into the kitchen island. Free beer, as much as you like, any time.

Why did you ever quit?

Shelma1

« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2015, 18:07 »
+6
I didn't quit. I still work in advertising. I'm freelanceI move around. In exchange for all the perks, you're expected to put in 60-hour weeks. The perks are there to discourage you from leaving the office. But I'm really tired of working long hours and having a really long commute. So I'm trying to transition out.

« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2015, 18:17 »
+19
What's the incentive for a dominant company to offer a raise at this point? I mean, sure I'd love one, but it only comes when there's an incentive for the company to offer it. In the regular workforce, people get raises to keep them at their jobs. It's in the company's interest to retain good people, and as the cost of living goes up, companies adjust compensation to keep employees happy or give them larger raises and bonuses to reward them for good work. Or they offer enticing packages to lure in new talent.

But in stock, what's the incentive? Shutterstock doesn't need to attract new talent. They've got piles of it. And even if they wanted to get new talent on board, it's probably more with a focus on Offset, building up that more high-end market. We're highly replaceable, so there's little incentive to do anything to keep us on. Adn for SS especially, they know that we need them. It's pretty hard to make a go at it in microstock without working with SS.

I'm all for a raise but I don't know how we go about selling anyone on it. I don't think anyone in the big offices is going to buy into the idea that they should do it just because it's the nice thing to do.

« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2015, 18:39 »
+7
I agree with what EmberMike said. The only incentive would be if it helped keep people from quitting microstock altogether or sending everything to somewhere like stocksy or Alamy RM or any other place that people think might make them more than .38 or maybe kept people from throwing in the towel on the long run prospects and supporting things like the DPC just because they figure they might as well get every penny out of this lost cause before it is all dried up.

I would love a raise, maybe they could start small say by making the royalties on BS comparable to SS.


As for me controlling my costs, I have minimal control over the cost of gas, internet, computer equipment, photo equipment, food, lodging... Actually  I do have some control, but I have already squeezed them about as much as I can and I will have a hard time going below zero.

« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2015, 18:59 »
+6
I agree I'd like a raise, and I also agree we aren't gonna get one. 

And I have worked real salary jobs most of my life.  The callouses are still there on my hands.  And if you care, I think those were underpaid too.

« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2015, 20:13 »
0
expecting a raise from a company in a crowd-sources industry is something short of futile.

Personally, I think that items like big SODs that show up occasionally count as a raise of sorts.,I just wish they were more predictable.

I have no grudge against a fancy head office. The folks there do important work. If it wasn't for the vast hoards of contributors, shutterstock would have less material to market but they would still likely have a smaller pool of possibly 'higher quality' photographers to work with anyways. Without the big-wigs and head office folks eating pizza in friday afternoons, I'd be on Symbiostock or marketing my tiny port of stock images on my own. Frankly, they do very good work for me.

If you really want more money from your image sales you are free to sell them elsewhere. Be the next Peter Lik if you really want. Just don't expect to have upper management at shutterstock to be concerned with grumblings in the crowd.

P.S. Barry, get over your pompous self already. Your disdain for anyone with a decent job or education is very well known. It really is tiring. Makes you seem bitter. Just because you wasted your life punching a clock doesn't mean that everyone should. Fwiw I've also worked min wage, piece meal (less than min wage), hourly, self employed, for government, for industry, for academia, for companies with fancy head offices and nothing fancy at all. Does that somehow make my opinion more valid? Great. Have a good one.

« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2015, 20:50 »
+15
expecting a raise from a company in a crowd-sources industry is something short of futile...

They used to give us raises.

And while I agree that they will probably not do so now, I also am pretty sure that they could afford to. They believe they have us in a position where they can push us around all they want, and they are right, for now. But life is long, and there may come a day when SS needs our good will, and it will not be there for them.

« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 21:07 »
+2
I actually think they are pretty up front about everything and most announcements are for things that have the potential to benefit contributors.

If you want to be 'pushed around' head over to iStock. See what they've been doing to maximize the benefits realized by their contributors.

« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2015, 21:16 »
+14
Raises, most of the time, don't go to the deserving. The way Shutterstock can help us, and themselves, earn more money from our content is to continue trying to eat Getty's lunch and lure away the higher value sales - corporate clients and such.

When I returned from exclusivity at iStock (summer 2011) my return per download was in the 60 cent to 75 cent range. At the end of last year it was hovering around the $1 mark (high 90s; only once, last April, did it go over $1)

If they can get my return per download up to (let's say) around $1.25, I'll consider that a raise even if the rates haven't changed. More high value sales and fewer basic subscriptions should be easily possible for them and won't give the shareholders or finance geniuses heart failure that their costs of goods is going up.

« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2015, 22:22 »
0

Another thought: I don't want a raise if it has to come at the cost of higher prices for buyers. If there is some way to pay for a raise without raising prices, that's fine. But with stuff like DPC around, and seemingly knocking on Shutterstock's door as they take up ad space in design magazines right next to SS, a poorly-timed rate increase to pay for a raise for us could do far more harm than good.

And I'm not saying no price increases, either. Just not for the sole purpose of paying contributors more. It has to be more strategic than that.


« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2015, 22:56 »
+6
Once all of you micro photogs work as a blue collar worker as an employee for a company that doesn't offer these kind of benefits for 20 or so years and then you see these offers from companies you too would want to work for them.

I don't want any extra benefits. I just want a few to several hundred dollars extra in my pocket every month. Spread over half a dozen companies, it's not unreasonable to get that with a minimal raise.

« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2015, 01:12 »
0
I think Jo Ann Sn over has hit on the perfect strategy. If the agency would work at increasing the high value sales to a higher percent of the total sales, everybody,  would win.

Smiling Jack

« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2015, 01:15 »
+4
Tyler asked and said before to please post a link to threads you are discussing that there is a link to so here it is.

http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145571&start=0

Thing with all the microstock people that are the ones complining is they never worked a real job in their life!

Some 90%-95% of the micro photogs work for themselves and never had a job where they were on a timeclock or piecerate or salaried!

Google offers this and then some for their employees as do many companies in the real world anymore because they have found out that happy employees are more productive and better overall for the company!

Once all of you micro photogs work as a blue collar worker as an employee for a company that doesn't offer these kind of benefits for 20 or so years and then you see these offers from companies you too would want to work for them.

So stop your crying because someone has what you don't have and do something about it!

All you full time self employed photogs set your own hours and do whatever you want when and how you want with no one to have to report to!

SS offers this as a perk for employees who do their job they get paid to do and they have someone to report to unlike you all do!

Being in the work force my entire life I would love to have had the chance to work for or with a company that treated their employees with a little respect and dignity and offered these type of company perks unlike many do.

The only ones you have to blame for your expenses going up are yourselves.

Micro cost should be dam near nothing for dam near any shoot you do.


Wow! I've worked a typical job like most people, saved my money and then risked it all to be self employed only to have to work three times harder morning till midnight 6 days a week to get where I am. I do all the jobs a small business does with several people and I don't get paid vacation leave, I don't get sick leave, I don't get health insurance or any type of retirement. If I just do what I want I don't make any money, all my time is spent working. I also have no security, however the market goes so does my income. I also have to pay more in taxes as I don't have an employer paying half like all other employed people. I also have to file taxes four times a year. As far as having someone to report to I have to report to thousands of buyers instead of one boss. Unlike people who have a typical job I have to constantly guess what I need to do to make money whenI worked as a graphic designer there was not guess work, you did what you were assigned. I f I guess wrong I have wasted time and money.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 01:25 by pixel8 »

« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2015, 04:16 »
+5
I agree that currently there is no economical incentive for Shutterstock to give us a raise. They get all the fresh content they need at the current rate.
They might consider paying more if it were getting more difficult for them to get the fresh content they need to keep their customers happy.

But trying to organize some kind of community action to threaten them by stopping uploads, removing portfolios or such will never work, it did not work in any of the cases before (apart from the fact that them not giving us a raise is not the kind of behavior that would make me taking such drastic action towards a business partner).

So if we want to get more out of our images, we have to think differently.
There are several sites out there that pay a lot more per download (have higher prices or let us set the prices, pay higher percentages).
I'm thinking of Alamy, 500px, CM, Pond5, and such.
Granted, they do not sell much. No way they can replace Shutterstock income - in the short run.

If we upload all our new works to those sites first and wait some time (maybe a few months) before uploading to Shutterstock (and the other usual microstock agencies), that gives those sites the opportunity to show a fresher collection - at least for some time.

If enough of us do it (I started doing it, just to try it) maybe after time sales on those sites will start to rise. Which would mean more money for us.
And maybe (big maybe) after some time the microstock agencies (including Shutterstock) will realize that they have to do something (like a raise) to move up in our uploading priority and not to get the fresh content as the last one.

It's not a big sacrifice like deleting portfolios, the income from Shutterstock keeps coming in, it would just mean to delay income for new images for some time.

I don't know if it will have any impact, but I will try...

« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2015, 05:02 »
+1
I am also doing this. It's up to any individual to decide, but I think it is worth uploading new work to higher paying sites a few months in advance of the sub factories. If not to put pressure on the sites, just to maximise the returns from the images over their lifetime.

If this becomes standard for contributors across the industry we would see some changes.

The first change could be individual opt in per image for subs and the like, or higher prices collections within agencies. That would remove the incentive to give our work to competitors first.

50%

« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2015, 05:20 »
+12
as a long as people sell the same pictures for much lower prices on other sites (DPC comes in mind) there will be no raise!

« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2015, 05:25 »
+6
as a long as people sell the same pictures for much lower prices on other sites (DPC comes in mind) there will be no raise!

Golden point! Nothing more, nothing less to add, it's so obvious...

Semmick Photo

« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2015, 05:55 »
+12

If enough of us do it (I started doing it, just to try it) maybe after time sales on those sites will start to rise. Which would mean more money for us.


Many calls for mobilisation of the troops have failed, there are too many contributors, and they are too scattered and they are not represented by one union.

As for putting your images elsewhere, if they cant find yours, they will pick someone elses. Dont think that your image is the image everyone is waiting for. Where your is not yours, but in general. 


 

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