Author Topic: Opt Out of Enhanced Licenses at SS #OptInWhenTheyPayUp (Read 45375 times)

Rinderart · « **Reply #150 on:** February 02, 2016, 12:51 »

Quote from: Microstock Posts on February 01, 2016, 15:35

Quote from: OM on February 01, 2016, 12:58
I won't be opting out of EL's for the simple reason that in the 3 years I've been at SS, I've had 31 EL's @$28 and in the 7 years I've been at FT (with 15% more images), I've had 5 EL's. Even pricing my EL's at 70 credits (instead of my max 100 credits) of which I get 25% doesn't get them sold at FT. I'll take 'em when I can get 'em at SS.

I just pictured a banner above Jon's desk. "They'll take 'em when they can get em".

And the kenny Rogers song Playing "Ya gotta know when to Hold em, and know when to fold them"

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #151 on:** February 02, 2016, 13:06 »

learning from history is good, .. whether it is in the context of world issues, or directly microstock..

we know what happened when an agency chooses to ignore the voice of the contributors..
all well-written in history of istock, getty,...

in business, the only voice that matters is very seldom the supplier...
eg farmer, fisherman, author,etc..
the only thing that matters and talk loudest is the shareholder, ..
and then next, the customer.
that is why marketing is so important . suppliers are plentiful, ... and blatantly, money talks volume.

so, being monkeys satisfied with peanuts, the only way to make the corporation listen
to get communicate the concerns to the shareholders and customers.

if the suppliers cannot get hold of the shareholders or customers..
nothing will be done. i say this, because we all know that's exactly what istock getty did.
it really does not matter if even the top 10 sellers pull out and go away,
the rest will still make up for the difference.

why? because stock photos are like fish, or books, or whatever you find in the "marketplace"...
easier to replace.
unless you hit them in the pocket... ie. the top 10 sellers form a new agency that
shows it can makes us as much earnings as we all get from ss.

only then, ss will listen. this is why it is futile to bang your head against the wall.
it is a noble thing to do, to stand for your belief,.. but it is still bloodletting...

sharpshot · « **Reply #152 on:** February 02, 2016, 13:30 »

History tells me that its a waste of time trying to get the big sites to change their ways. I did all I could to make istock and FT stop cutting commissions but all that did was lose me a lot of money. So now I see no point in reducing my microstock earnings again. I have over 1,500 images exclusive with alamy and lots of videos only on Pond5 because they pay 50%. That's my way of opting out of low commissions and lower prices with the micros.

Rinderart · « **Reply #153 on:** February 02, 2016, 13:57 »

Quote from: Microstockphoto on January 29, 2016, 02:33

Quote from: Rinderart on January 29, 2016, 00:41
Good Luck.

your a front runner when it comes to complaining about ss and taking action, here is action, and you wish them good luck instead of joining? my my

I will and always have put my voice where it mattered if I thought it made a difference for us. I totally Believe in 30/60 Days this will fall by the wayside Like every other thing That has come along.

When The day comes and we have one voice [which will never happen and one can dream] and actually have a say with Power..sadly, Very sadly I feel it's a joke to even think equality for all, will work. were here with what 20/30/50/100 good folks, when there are 30,000/40,000 who could care less that submit 750,000 a week for gods sake.. Thats the Issue guys, So get real...Not weather I support it or not.And I do.... BTW.

The term "Good Luck" was aimed at us, Not ss. Good Luck to Us. That post was edited, If SS read it before, there would have been hell to pay. I don't need that now. I go By My name. Not anonymous. sorry if you Mixed it up or I did. And Your Right I have been Very vocal since almost 11 years. I've said all I can say, Typed all I can type .......for what? to be treated Like some kind of traitor.? Back up, thats unfair.

When something wasn't right, I heard about it I guarantee sooner than 90% of you and tried to work it out. From Exclusives coming over to search Issues,to algorithm changes,a Million review issues, to the watermark fiasco that we had No input on and so much more, that to me does more damage than this. I used to get 8 EL's a day I miss them also. 2/3 a month now on a good month. Thats just silly. Should I cry? Naw at almost 73 it would look silly. been around a long time guys. we blew it 10+ years ago when sites were paying 20 Cents. Thats it, No EL's no Nothing. Who do you think fought for what we have??? A very small handfull who gave them a lot of grief.Thats who.

we are simply WAY out numbered by folks that are happy as Punch to get anything because someone likes there Pretty Pictures. When I joined there were 300.000 Images. we thought theres no way there could be more. In my conversations with Jon.......he knew there would be Lots more. And Oleg and Serban etc,etc,etc. I elect JoAnn for anything and i've said it before.Level Headed,smart,sensible and knows how to write. Mid to Late summer My Micro days and involvement good or bad will cease. Theres no soul,No fun and completely void of community now..

Rinderart · « **Reply #154 on:** February 02, 2016, 13:58 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 02, 2016, 13:30

History tells me that its a waste of time trying to get the big sites to change their ways. I did all I could to make istock and FT stop cutting commissions but all that did was lose me a lot of money. So now I see no point in reducing my microstock earnings again. I have over 1,500 images exclusive with alamy and lots of videos only on Pond5 because they pay 50%. That's my way of opting out of low commissions and lower prices with the micros.

Smart.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #155 on:** February 02, 2016, 14:26 »

Quote from: Rinderart on February 02, 2016, 13:57

I elect JoAnn for anything and i've said it before.Level Headed,smart,sensible and knows how to write.

well said. i too have always voted for JoAnn in all her posting here. she has what many of us do not have , the able to write well, and i think before that, there was only two others who are sadly missing... mitz and lisa.
not to dimean the others, but these 3 know the business and were not afraid to speak out.
others too, but not as predictable or countable as JoAnn, (and the late Mitz, and the missing lisa).

my comment afore was not to make little of JoAnn's effort, but more to say exactly what sharpshot
followed after my comment. it's reality of why it is futile. unless JoAnn is in someway to be able to fly to where ss shareholders meet, or get to speak directly to jonO,
everything else is just equal to strangling the receptionist or shooting the delivery man .

Microstockphoto · « **Reply #156 on:** February 02, 2016, 14:48 »

rinderart, no need for history lessons i was there, i don't recall you being the front runner though. but you opted out for ELs then?

EmberMike · « **Reply #157 on:** February 02, 2016, 15:15 »

I'm done fighting these companies and I'm letting this EL thing go. At least we still have ELs, when some companies are making it pretty obvious that they are willing to bend to buyer pressure to offer more extensive usage rights with standard license purchases already (i.e. Creative Market).

When is the last time things actually changed for the better in this business? I feel like we're always just fighting against some new change that hurts us, in some futile effort to just maintain the status quo. But the status quo hasn't even been the status quo in years.

At this point, I think the best I can hope for is to just ride this out as long as possible and have it as a secondary income. The days when I made a living doing this are long gone, and I'm not going to stress about every change that comes along to cut us further out of the profits. It is what it is. Nothing will change that.

LisaFX was right. When she left MSG over the DPC issue, I didn't see it her way. I do now. The best we can do is stretch this out a little longer, and sometimes that means staying opted-in to things we don't always like.

cathyslife · « **Reply #158 on:** February 02, 2016, 16:35 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on February 02, 2016, 13:06

only then, ss will listen. this is why it is futile to bang your head against the wall.
it is a noble thing to do, to stand for your belief,.. but it is still bloodletting...

In the past, this is why I supported some of the other shitstorms (to use elenathewise's term

) against the other agencies. I figured that nothing would come of it, but I did it for me. Not to teach them a lesson, because they don't give a rats a$$.

I agree that "Every movement starts with one person deciding they have had enough." I had enough before...this one I am going to sit out for a while and see what happens. If I lose a couple of dollars on each EL but I double the number of ELs than I got last year, then I am ahead and making more money. That's what counts for me. I am NOT saying that SS is doing the right thing, because they most definitely are not. And I admire those who want to take a stand.

angelawaye · « **Reply #159 on:** February 02, 2016, 17:42 »

I opted out. It isn't like I am losing a huge amount of income because EL's are once in a blue moon.

Who knows, in a year or two we may only be earning 5 cents on a sub download photo...

I really don't like fotolia's EL license at all. Is there an opt out for that?

gbalex · « **Reply #160 on:** February 02, 2016, 18:07 »

If we decide that our voices do not matter, they won't.

I don't believe that we are helpless to stop the greed for a moment. It is unfortunate that as a group we chose and continue to choose to believe that we do not deserve basic respect and compensation; from a group that has become extremely wealthy because of our financial resources, talent and hard work.

How far down are we willing to go, before we say enough is enough?

gbalex · « **Reply #161 on:** February 02, 2016, 18:16 »

Most of us should be well aware that they intend to profit & gain market share by devaluing our assets. For those who have not see the quotes below they come straight from the horses mouth.

These guys are in this for short term profits, they do not care how much they devalue our ports to get what they want. If we do not take a stand the slide will continue and accelerate.

Snip
Duck Swartz

So what’s changed in the marketplace that’s giving you the opportunity to locate in the enterprise in a more, in a more robust way?

Timothy E. Bixby - CFO

The quality of the images has increased pretty dramatically over the past 10 years

So in the past five years the contents gone up to a level where the biggest publishers in the world mediated either starting to notice that is price, these images are not only price well, but they are also similar to some images that they have paid thousands of dollars for and also had to be on the phone for an hour negotiating the license for that image.

Snip

Duck Swartz

Talking about your present strategy longer term?

Timothy E. Bixby - CFO

We think we can raise the prices over the long term but we’re primary in the growth mode right now and we would like to continue to cover as much of the world as possible and take as much as growth in the business that we can before we play with the pricing level.

We haven’t raised prices in many years and thats been a great strategy so far to grow.

Snip
Jonathan Oringer - Founder, CEO & Chairman of the Board

It still multiples. So it's order of magnitude whether it's if you look at us compared to other stock marketplaces like an iStock or others, it's two or three or four times more expensive to not use Shutterstock. If you look at the higher end sort of more traditional marketed might be 6 or 8 or 10 times more expensive.

http://tinyurl.com/qcqszco

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #162 on:** February 02, 2016, 18:21 »

Quote from: angelawaye on February 02, 2016, 17:42

I opted out. It isn't like I am losing a huge amount of income because EL's are once in a blue moon.

Who knows, in a year or two we may only be earning 5 cents on a sub download photo...

I really don't like fotolia's EL license at all. Is there an opt out for that?

Quote from: gbalex on February 02, 2016, 18:07

If we decide that our voices do not matter, they won't.

I don't believe that we are helpless to stop the greed for a moment. It is unfortunate that as a group we chose and continue to choose to believe that we do not deserve basic respect and compensation; from a group that has become extremely wealthy because of our financial resources, talent and hard work.

How far down are we willing to go, before we say enough is enough?

i think angelawaye and gbalex both correct. same with everyone after my comment...

some of us have been there before... ie the shitstorm...
for those of us old enough to remember our very first shitstorm ... the intro of digital camera
and the intro of micro stock.
we went from one drop of income to another drop of income and both very disheartening...
imagine earning 300 dollars as a newbie , fresh out of photography school,
got into freelancing in a metro city, first job ... first paycheck ... me??? green as the water behind my ears like a newborn. yes, 300 dollars for my first photography assignment.

today, how many dls do i need to make that same $300

the reality is that when i first made my first paychq , i was one of a handful of pro photographers with knowledge of how to set the camera in manual and using a gossen meter,etc..
there was no such thing as auto, and we had to process everything ourselves because the client wanted it yesterday.

today, of course, we could give our clients what they wanted , even on the spot. and we are no longer one of a handful who knows how to take a good photograph. even that, what was a good photographs at that time, is necesary to earn that money. today, well, you know how little that
matters in microstock or any type of photography, .. except maybe for pirelli, etc..

will we all end up with 5 cts??? i think it is inevitable... unless the market demands really a well taken image like we used to with the film media.
the analogy would be going back to movies and music and classical dance, theatre,etc...

the technology has progress, but the standard of quality has plummeted. you don't need to write music like beethoven or paint like da vinci or even need to master an instrument to call yourself a professional anymore.
and the clients don't really care either. you only need to watch those amateurish ads on youtube to gather the reality.

it's not rocket science anymore.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #163 on:** February 02, 2016, 18:42 »

There's an old adage that no one can take advantage of you unless you let them.

Anyone who is interested in an artist's union or association should read this thread as exhibit A as to why this has not yet happened.

This action does not require anyone to delete any part of their portfolio - or even to stop uploading. The cost to any individual artist of opting out is pretty small (especially for those who say they don't often get ELs)

And yet, it's something lots of contributors feel they can't support.

As far as trusting Shutterstock to see how things pan out with increasing the volume of ELs with price changes, I would point out that the prices for ELs are still unchanged, so right now they're not doing squat to increase ELs by lowering prices. All they're doing is taking in an increased share of what the buyer pays.

If they really were serious about their stated goals, the prices would have changed the same day the royalties did.

They didn't. They still haven't.

Think about the message it would send SS if customers could not buy any EL - the large corporate clients would be fine as they can use their custom plan with one of the SODs for whatever they need. SS doesn't care about contributors but they do care about customers. The customers would effectively deliver a message for us if they were calling to ask why they can't buy an EL all of a sudden.

What a missed opportunity.

noodle · « **Reply #164 on:** February 02, 2016, 18:59 »

^^ +100 Every word

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #165 on:** February 02, 2016, 19:13 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 02, 2016, 18:42

There's an old adage that no one can take advantage of you unless you let them.

Anyone who is interested in an artist's union or association should read this thread as exhibit A as to why this has not yet happened.

This action does not require anyone to delete any part of their portfolio - or even to stop uploading. The cost to any individual artist of opting out is pretty small (especially for those who say they don't often get ELs)

And yet, it's something lots of contributors feel they can't support.

As far as trusting Shutterstock to see how things pan out with increasing the volume of ELs with price changes, I would point out that the prices for ELs are still unchanged, so right now they're not doing squat to increase ELs by lowering prices. All they're doing is taking in an increased share of what the buyer pays.

If they really were serious about their stated goals, the prices would have changed the same day the royalties did.

They didn't. They still haven't.

Think about the message it would send SS if customers could not buy any EL - the large corporate clients would be fine as they can use their custom plan with one of the SODs for whatever they need. SS doesn't care about contributors but they do care about customers. The customers would effectively deliver a message for us if they were calling to ask why they can't buy an EL all of a sudden.

What a missed opportunity.

your last para. more or less sums it all up nicely, JoAnn.
i suppose those who have not seen any income from EL does not see the point .
and for those like you, etc who do have regular earnings from EL would be more affected encouragement to stand and be counted.

i guess either we stop uploading the kinds of work that get us EL or we opt out.
this is the skipping stone that is why you see so little support to opt out.

i wish there were more, but even i have seen a large drop in EL. even to the point of zero earnings of those 28 to 102 dollars commission, so long ago that i feel the damage has already been done, ie. increasing the print run .

finally,

Quote from: gbalex on February 02, 2016, 18:16

The quality of the images has increased pretty dramatically over the past 10 years

Snip

Duck Swartz

Talking about your present strategy longer term?

Timothy E. Bixby - CFO

We think we can raise the prices over the long term but we’re primary in the growth mode right now and we would like to continue to cover as much of the world as possible and take as much as growth in the business that we can before we play with the pricing level.

We haven’t raised prices in many years and thats been a great strategy so far to grow.

Snip
http://tinyurl.com/qcqszco

the quotes by gblex more or less say loud and clear...
read our lips, we do not intent to increase prices...
not for a long time...

in fact, we plan to decrease prices instead.

there is an old saying that it is easier to decrease prices

but once you start to decrease prices...
you can forget about ever ever to increase prices ... not even a penny .
why??? because you give the customer the impression your prices have already been too overpriced.
,, and the customer will now expect a lot less to pay.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #166 on:** February 02, 2016, 19:39 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 02, 2016, 18:42

As far as trusting Shutterstock to see how things pan out with increasing the volume of ELs with price changes, I would point out that the prices for ELs are still unchanged, so right now they're not doing squat to increase ELs by lowering prices. All they're doing is taking in an increased share of what the buyer pays.

If they really were serious about their stated goals, the prices would have changed the same day the royalties did.

Just FYI, I got this answer to my inquiry today:
" If your earnings was $21.06 and you are in the 30% group then the sales price was $72 dollars. it is very common for us, like any other business, to give discounts for bulk orders or special offers with coupon codes etc."

OM · « **Reply #167 on:** February 02, 2016, 20:43 »

Quote from: gbalex on February 02, 2016, 18:07

If we decide that our voices do not matter, they won't.

I don't believe that we are helpless to stop the greed for a moment. It is unfortunate that as a group we chose and continue to choose to believe that we do not deserve basic respect and compensation; from a group that has become extremely wealthy because of our financial resources, talent and hard work.

How far down are we willing to go, before we say enough is enough?

And how have we shown in the past that our voices matter? DPC? 6 million less images than FT...they really don't care. It's not important to them....but yes I'm opted out of DPC but only for the reason that I think I'm protecting my ODDs and SODs at SS. Maybe it's worked too because my SS income is still pretty stable.
Having reached the top tier of SS recently, I'm likely biased in not opting out of ELs. At best, I'll get $29 for an EL and at worst $20. As previously stated, at FT I ask 70 credits for an EL of which I get 25% but almost never sell any EL's there, so that's 25% of nowt. I note that one of our erstwhile members here (since withdrawn) who turned emerald FT-yahoo a year or so ago has all his (excellent) images there priced at 30 credits for an EL. So I reckon that he's happy with $10 for every EL sold there which I wouldn't be. I'll take the SS price for an EL for the time being.

I do agree with Jo Ann that SS is telling us fibs when they say they're lowering the EL price to us to remain competitive whilst keeping the price for ELs the same to the customer..that is downright deceitful.

cathyslife · « **Reply #168 on:** February 02, 2016, 20:51 »

Quote

i suppose those who have not seen any income from EL does not see the point .

I do see some income from ELs, and i do see the point. I am pretty sure everyone here sees the point, that doesnt mean they agree with this particular solution.

Quote

i guess either we stop uploading the kinds of workthat get us EL or we opt out.this is the skipping stone that is why you see so little support to opt out.

No, there is a third, even more effective way to take a stand than clicking an opt out button...stop doing business with people that rip you off. That is a much harder decision to make than opting out. And everyone needs to make those decisions for themselves.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #169 on:** February 02, 2016, 21:20 »

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on February 02, 2016, 19:39

Just FYI, I got this answer to my inquiry today:
" If your earnings was $21.06 and you are in the 30% group then the sales price was $72 dollars. it is very common for us, like any other business, to give discounts for bulk orders or special offers with coupon codes etc."

But that's within the current price range (published on the US site): from $99.50 to $67.96 (2 pack to 25 pack). Until there's a buyer price below $67.96, I don't see that as a price cut although it's possible they may sell one license at that price versus previously requiring a larger number to be purchased.

Look at other gig economy protests against similar types of moves - reducing the prices and saying you'll make it up in volume sounds so familiar.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/03/business/uber-drivers-and-others-in-the-gig-economy-take-a-stand.html

gbalex · « **Reply #170 on:** February 02, 2016, 21:50 »

Quote from: OM on February 02, 2016, 20:43

Quote from: gbalex on February 02, 2016, 18:07
If we decide that our voices do not matter, they won't.

I don't believe that we are helpless to stop the greed for a moment. It is unfortunate that as a group we chose and continue to choose to believe that we do not deserve basic respect and compensation; from a group that has become extremely wealthy because of our financial resources, talent and hard work.

How far down are we willing to go, before we say enough is enough?

And how have we shown in the past that our voices matter? DPC? 6 million less images than FT...they really don't care. It's not important to them....but yes I'm opted out of DPC but only for the reason that I think I'm protecting my ODDs and SODs at SS. Maybe it's worked too because my SS income is still pretty stable.
Having reached the top tier of SS recently, I'm likely biased in not opting out of ELs. At best, I'll get $29 for an EL and at worst $20. As previously stated, at FT I ask 70 credits for an EL of which I get 25% but almost never sell any EL's there, so that's 25% of nowt. I note that one of our erstwhile members here (since withdrawn) who turned emerald FT-yahoo a year or so ago has all his (excellent) images there priced at 30 credits for an EL. So I reckon that he's happy with $10 for every EL sold there which I wouldn't be. I'll take the SS price for an EL for the time being.

I do agree with Jo Ann that SS is telling us fibs when they say they're lowering the EL price to us to remain competitive whilst keeping the price for ELs the same to the customer..that is downright deceitful.

If we are not prepared to take a stand on pricing, we can expect a continued slide in our own revenue. And we will have only ourselves to blame if we fail to take a stand.

Shutterstock has openly stated that their growth strategy is undercutting the competition and that this strategy is working well for them. Now they are not happy with this and are taking a swipe at our royalties.

Shutterstock has nothing to lose by undercutting competition to gain market share, they gain revenue with each price cut to their product and each cut to our royalties.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #171 on:** February 02, 2016, 21:55 »

There always have been and always will be a certain percentage of people who don't care, can't be bothered, think nothing can make a difference, cross picket lines, etc.

Yet unions do form and people do protest and change does happen.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #172 on:** February 02, 2016, 23:34 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on February 02, 2016, 21:55

There always have been and always will be a certain percentage of people who don't care, can't be bothered, think nothing can make a difference, cross picket lines, etc.

Yet unions do form and people do protest and change does happen.

I'm all for unions. They are effective if you can get the majority of workers to join, pay dues, and support collective bargaining. Do we have a union representing us? Negotiating with top management on our behalf? Where do I send my dues payment?

No?? Then this is just another shitstorm (good word Elena).

anathaya · « **Reply #173 on:** February 03, 2016, 00:05 »

This is an email reply I got from SS:

Quote

You are in the 30% group then it means that the license was sold to the customer for (17.16/30)*100=$57.20 each.

It is very normal to offer discounts to customers who want to purchase custom packages of more than 25 downloads.

Any business will offer discounts for bulk purchases.

They have already started offering ELs for lower prices. What's next? They will change royalty structure for videos when they have enough videos in their library. Currently it's 30% for all.

Rinderart · « **Reply #174 on:** February 03, 2016, 01:39 »

Quote from: Chichikov on January 29, 2016, 02:47

Quote from: Microstockphoto on January 29, 2016, 02:33
Quote from: Rinderart on January 29, 2016, 00:41
Good Luck.

your a front runner when it comes to complaining about ss and taking action, here is action, and you wish them good luck instead of joining? my my

I think that Laurin has very more serious problems than to opt out now…

OK....I'll bite since you think you know me.. what might those problems be? Please be very specific.

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Author Topic: Opt Out of Enhanced Licenses at SS #OptInWhenTheyPayUp (Read 45375 times)

Rinderart

etudiante_rapide

sharpshot

Rinderart

Rinderart

etudiante_rapide

Microstockphoto

EmberMike

cathyslife

angelawaye

gbalex

gbalex

etudiante_rapide

Jo Ann Snover

noodle

etudiante_rapide

Sean Locke Photography

OM

cathyslife

Jo Ann Snover

gbalex

Shelma1

PixelBytes

anathaya

Rinderart

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