pancakes

MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: SS grace period of 6 months  (Read 9330 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2016, 02:49 »
+4
Ignore the fact that one person has a reasonably steady growth in sales (with a couple of spikes) while consistently uploading more content? How on Earth does that indicate artificial sales? As for the more you upload the more you earn... that's what's happening in your chart. You've been uploading plenty of stuff and your sales have been steadily growing. The only exceptions are recently where you've been uploading less than you normally do... or at least your downloads are levelling out.

I'm with increasingdifficulty... people see far too many patterns that don't really mean anything. Correlation not causation is one thing, but seeing a correlation in one person's figures and determining that there's something crazy going on on a site-wide basis... is entirely different.
I blame Bill Gates people discover they can generate some nice graphs and use some statistical functions on Excel and they think they are statisticans


gyllens

« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2016, 03:03 »
+1
Ignore the fact that one person has a reasonably steady growth in sales (with a couple of spikes) while consistently uploading more content? How on Earth does that indicate artificial sales? As for the more you upload the more you earn... that's what's happening in your chart. You've been uploading plenty of stuff and your sales have been steadily growing. The only exceptions are recently where you've been uploading less than you normally do... or at least your downloads are levelling out.

I'm with increasingdifficulty... people see far too many patterns that don't really mean anything. Correlation not causation is one thing, but seeing a correlation in one person's figures and determining that there's something crazy going on on a site-wide basis... is entirely different.

There you are. The harder you work and so on. No and it hasn't applied for quite some time now. Shelma-1 observation is spot on! of course they fill up the entire first one or two pages with new members files and they go for 0.25c. I mean fair enough its no conspiracy since its called business but you dont exactly have to be a genius to see whats going on.
Commercial and high quality files are getting burried in such deep waters I doubt they will ever see the light again.

« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2016, 03:13 »
0
pauws, doesnt mean that what they see for their port isnt true, but i agree, to take one result and then assume it is true for everyone is silly

« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2016, 03:19 »
+1
pauws, doesnt mean that what they see for their port isnt true, but i agree, to take one result and then assume it is true for everyone is silly
It may be true but its the extraordinary leaps of faith people are prepared to make based on so little evidence that amazes me. Unfortunately the reliable stats we have about the industry are negligible. What we do know is that the number of images on shutterstock is growing faster than income generated...therefore ON AVERAGE income per image will go down. Some particularly talented people may buck the trend and some will suffer more than others and for every change in the algorithm there will be winners and losers. Whose to say that the previous high incomes were any more "fair" than others getting the sales as presumably buyers only buy files that meet their needs.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 03:37 by Pauws99 »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2016, 03:47 »
0
pauws, doesnt mean that what they see for their port isnt true, but i agree, to take one result and then assume it is true for everyone is silly

I wrote an amazing reply, but it disappeared for some reason. Still... nobody is arguing with the guy's stats, we have no reason not to believe that they're 100% accurate. But I have to doubt what he's 'seeing' if it's based on anything other than the facts. The facts being that he's had steadily increasing sales with a couple of positive spikes in earnings for two months in a row. I'm not seeing any evidence of artificial sales, some giant conspiracy from the inner sanctums of the Shutterstock continuum, or anything even slightly dodgy.

It would be more accurate to say that I had lower sales in June as I went scuba diving. I mean... I did go scuba diving and I did have a drop in sales... the statistics don't lie! 

My original reply was better than this one, but this will have to do. I need to get to the chip shop.   

« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2016, 06:57 »
+1
Well, some of the comments become quite personalized here, questioning even the validity of my reading of my own stats or my assumptions, so I won't engage into this kind of debate. I just want to point out that my original post was a mere assumption and a call for discussion, rather than anything else.

And secondly, I think it's difficult to argue against the fact some people raised here that new contributors' material is placed on top of the search whereas established contributors very often (if not always?) get buried among dozens or hundreds of pages. This fact alone may support the idea that earnings/downloads at SS are directly or indirectly regulated by the agency. The question of 6 months or 3 months or 12 months etc. may be irrelevant after all. It's more about how SS wants to (artificially) help one group of contributors at expense of another, rather than precise timing and duration when this happens. "6 months grace period" was just based on reading of my own stats and hearing this on multiple occasions from others on this forum, and may vary from one contributor to another.

« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2016, 07:10 »
+5
No, new contributors aren't placed higher in search, but new IMAGES might be. You either sort by popular, new, or best match.

Unless your images have gained lots of sales so they appear on top when searching for popular they won't be seen after a while since "new" images will be replaced. It's quite natural and straight forward. No mysteries or conspiracies there.

Solutions: create unique images with little competition and you stay "new" longer. Common subjects will be replaced by other authors quite quickly, unless yours are the very best.

Best match means a combination of sales and other hidden algorithms (probably how many purchases were made using that exact keyword search etc.)

With millions of new images coming in, you can't expect anything else. You're not the only author in the ecosystem.

You have to either:

1. Be the best.
2. Be unique.
3. Upload in great numbers every month.

Best to combine all three of course.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 08:28 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2016, 08:11 »
0
Bull. I did not sell anything there for about three months, then it picked up.

« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2016, 10:42 »
+1
"And secondly, I think it's difficult to argue against the fact some people raised here that new contributors' material is placed on top of the search whereas established contributors very often (if not always?) get buried among dozens or hundreds of pages. " Actually its very easy to argue that this is not a fact. I believe it is estimated they have 100,000 contributors this assertion is based on a self selecting sample of say 20 people. To me that's not a level of proof that qualifies as a fact. Whilst an interesting discussion to me the key point is theres nothing you can do about it other than decide you want to continue to submit or not.

gyllens

« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2016, 12:06 »
+3
Well, some of the comments become quite personalized here, questioning even the validity of my reading of my own stats or my assumptions, so I won't engage into this kind of debate. I just want to point out that my original post was a mere assumption and a call for discussion, rather than anything else.

And secondly, I think it's difficult to argue against the fact some people raised here that new contributors' material is placed on top of the search whereas established contributors very often (if not always?) get buried among dozens or hundreds of pages. This fact alone may support the idea that earnings/downloads at SS are directly or indirectly regulated by the agency. The question of 6 months or 3 months or 12 months etc. may be irrelevant after all. It's more about how SS wants to (artificially) help one group of contributors at expense of another, rather than precise timing and duration when this happens. "6 months grace period" was just based on reading of my own stats and hearing this on multiple occasions from others on this forum, and may vary from one contributor to another.


Look I fully agree with you and its no a secret that some agencies help a group at the expense of others. Take dreamstime who basically admit everything has to be fair for ALL members and there is no reward for hard work. SS is basically doing the same and in order to keep new people they will dangle a carrott as a bait. The people here who are trying to find any logic or dismiss this fact are probably low to medium earners with average sized portfolios and are yet to experience this with perhaps a few exceptions.
I speak to " factories" with over 100K files portfolios and they are in the same boat so we are NOT imagining this.

Another thing FT/Adobe no matter what must have some influence on some members. Personally my earnings at FT have trebbled since the merger.

However SS keeps them coming new members with more files. Why? well the more files more equity more assets. Its self explanatory.

« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2016, 13:07 »
+2

......

Anyway, I think it's hard to ignore the fact, at least based on my example, that there's something artificial in the SS's system, and the usual business rule whereby the harder you work (=the more frequently you upload quality material) the more you earn, doesn't seem to be working anymore.

one data point doesn't make a trend much less a targeted effort by SS -- my income from SS shows no plateau, with a small but steady increase over 8 years -- individual months vary greatly but overall trend is up

baldrick's example is really a best case -- it assumes all uploads are of equal quality & demand, that your % of total images available remains  the same, that the market for your niche remains the same, etc, etc

you need to take all these possibilities into account before a conspiracy becomes even remotely credible

« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2016, 13:12 »
+1
everybody should quit ss honestly  8)

« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2016, 15:54 »
+1
Quote
The people here who are trying to find any logic or dismiss this fact are probably low to medium earners with average sized portfolios and are yet to experience this with perhaps a few exceptions.

Well, I've had 127,000 sales, I don't know if that makes me a "low to medium earner" or not. I still think that the mathematics of it provides a reasonable explanation of what happens - and will cause image factories to "see it", too.
Of course, it is possible that there is some slight push included in the search algorithm according to the length of time since a member joined - or even depending on the average age of the images in a portfolio. That shouldn't be hard to program in. But even if there is, so what? It still affects everybody equally, it's not discriminatory, like a rejection I got 10 years ago from iStock with an accompanying note saying the inspector's mate had a similar image and wouldn't like to have mine competing with it.

« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2016, 15:59 »
+2
"The people here who are trying to find any logic or dismiss this fact are probably low to medium earners with average sized portfolios and are yet to experience this with perhaps a few exceptions." Another assumption based on zero evidence

« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2016, 16:29 »
+3
I don't know how anyone can claim something as a fact when it isn't. It's a fact that your sales hasn't grown, but it's not a fact for others.

This isn't the first or second time someone claim there is a conspiracy going on. None of the conspiracy theories had any ounce of truth based on my experience with SS. I've seen consistent growth in the last 2 years, with a sales drop around December and picks back up in January. There is no grace period and there is no favoritism of new content.

You can't just upload and expect sales anymore. It's like every website expect to be ranked in the first page of Google Search for a particular keyword when there are 1 billion websites on the internet. Your titles and keywords are more important than ever when there are so many images on SS. I said this almost 2 years ago and it's even truer today. You must have exceptional metadata to have it discoverable.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 18:57 by Minsc »

« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2016, 02:32 »
0
I don't know how anyone can claim something as a fact when it isn't. It's a fact that your sales hasn't grown, but it's not a fact for others.
This isn't the first or second time someone claim there is a conspiracy going on.

Well, you contradict yourself, by admitting that people have raised this theory before me. If they did that, they had certain grounds for that, be it a math (graph) or just pure intuition based on anything else. So I'm not the only one on here. However, again, I'm not counting how many people are in each camp, just to be clear.

Your titles and keywords are more important than ever when there are so many images on SS. I said this almost 2 years ago and it's even truer today. You must have exceptional metadata to have it discoverable.

What if my titles and keywords, being indeed important, are already exceptional and of high quality? I spend similar time to keyword my assets as to develop them from RAW knowing this, and still the underlying issue of my OP remains there? Your solution to success doesn't appear to be valid. (By the way, the quality of my keywording wasn't that good during the first 6 months, and still my material enjoyed a greater success, nothing like afterwards, with better quality of assets including better and richer metadata. Just in a span of 1.5 years time. Try figure that out.).

« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2016, 02:51 »
+3
If you really believe you are wasting your time the answer is to stop unloading there and find sites that work for you. Those of us who do OK on SS will carry on. I guess the debate will go on...there's pretty much always some theory on here on some kind of sales limitations such as the "cap" on earnings. I would just say no matter how many times something is repeated doesn't make it more or less true.


gyllens

« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2016, 04:10 »
+1
There is NO conspiracy here. its entirely the agencies prerogative to change and wheel and deal whatever they see fit and there will always be negative and positive outcomes. Thats business and we all know that but somewhere one have to start using ones own intelligence based on not just one observation but hundreds of almost identical observations not just here but even in non public private forums run by photographers.
I personally could easily live well on my SS income alone so on that score no complaints here.

Along comes the OP and inform us about a "grace" period and selling no matter what. Well that sounds very much like the "Robin Hood" taxation system in some of the richer countries namely to make the well off pay more tax in order to make the poorer pay less. Fine! I got no problems with that but this is business and I'm afraid in business these morals do not apply. In our business hard work and graft combined with skill and excellence should be encouraged and rewarded not the opposite. If so then something has gone very very wrong. Now surely as photographers you have to agree on this.




lemonyellow

« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2016, 05:51 »
+1
More than a grace period for new contributors, I believe there used to be a grace period for new uploads.

At present, new uploads are not selling in my experience.

But that may change at every moment, since Shutterstock tweak their search results all the time - this is a fact since they officially admit doing.

« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2016, 05:57 »
0
(By the way, the quality of my keywording wasn't that good during the first 6 months, and still my material enjoyed a greater success, nothing like afterwards, with better quality of assets including better and richer metadata. Just in a span of 1.5 years time. Try figure that out.).

What evidence do you have that your keywording is better? Your sales went down. They were up when you had "worse" keywording. Did you use nicer words? "Good" or "Bad" keywording is different on each site and has everything to do with how the search engine works, and entering the mind of a buyer, not how "good" the words are.

« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2016, 13:16 »
+3
Well, you contradict yourself, by admitting that people have raised this theory before me. If they did that, they had certain grounds for that, be it a math (graph) or just pure intuition based on anything else. So I'm not the only one on here. However, again, I'm not counting how many people are in each camp, just to be clear.

What if my titles and keywords, being indeed important, are already exceptional and of high quality? I spend similar time to keyword my assets as to develop them from RAW knowing this, and still the underlying issue of my OP remains there? Your solution to success doesn't appear to be valid. (By the way, the quality of my keywording wasn't that good during the first 6 months, and still my material enjoyed a greater success, nothing like afterwards, with better quality of assets including better and richer metadata. Just in a span of 1.5 years time. Try figure that out.).

People repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true. The flat Earth theory worked wonders for centuries until someone proved it was spherical. I guess the only way to disprove the 6 month grace period theory is with a chart. This is my SS earnings chart for the last 20 months. The only dip was December, which is the slowest month of the year.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 13:23 by Minsc »

« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2016, 12:35 »
+1
I think the thing is simpler. The demand of similar images does not grow as fast as SS's database, so that the payouts are distributed to more and more contributors.

« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2016, 02:54 »
+3
Although not strictly about the original topic, but 4 days to go still in October, and I'm pretty shocked with the drop in sales at SS this month: -45%.



The lowest results in 14 months, the largest drop in almost 2 years, without any logic behind the drop. And that's during supposedly the busiest month of the year?! Following this trend, November and December will be even more dreadful, taking into account the looming never-ending holidays and vacations.

Loosing faith in this model faster than I thought.

gyllens

« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2016, 03:49 »
0
Although not strictly about the original topic, but 4 days to go still in October, and I'm pretty shocked with the drop in sales at SS this month: -45%.



The lowest results in 14 months, the largest drop in almost 2 years, without any logic behind the drop. And that's during supposedly the busiest month of the year?! Following this trend, November and December will be even more dreadful, taking into account the looming never-ending holidays and vacations.

Loosing faith in this model faster than I thought.



Well looking for any logic in this business is like looking for logic in the spinning of a roulette wheel. Zip!. For all we know it could be that SS inspite of all reports are losing buyers? which is actually the worst that could happen. Too many files 100 million too long time for buyers to find what they want? who knows?

« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2016, 05:20 »
+1
Unless a miracle happens, I am looking at down about 30% on last October.
:(


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
4 Replies
2893 Views
Last post September 21, 2007, 08:08
by modellocate
28 Replies
8379 Views
Last post June 05, 2011, 01:02
by lagereek
4 Replies
1976 Views
Last post September 08, 2013, 09:34
by luissantos84
4 Replies
2713 Views
Last post May 19, 2014, 16:50
by Batman
0 Replies
2487 Views
Last post May 21, 2018, 00:05
by rinderart

Sponsors

Mega Bundle of 5,900+ Professional Lightroom Presets

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors

3100 Posing Cards Bundle