MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => StockFresh => Topic started by: helix7 on May 17, 2012, 08:29
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In December I started a thread about how maybe the ship was sailing for SF (http://www.microstockgroup.com/stockfresh/stockfresh-is-the-opportunity-passing/), and the opportunity to break into the market may have begun to pass.
Less than half a year later, I'm looking at the possibility of making a full payout ($50) within the span of a single month. Surely nothing to get all excited about yet, but it's progress.
Alongside this change, we're talking about the SS IPO, Fotolia selling a stake in the company, the downward spiral of iStock, and the rest of the generally-bad news of the microstock business. Even things at the usually great SS seem to be going in the other direction for some. I'm reading reports of down earnings, search change problems, etc.
And the general consensus is that we can't do much about any of this.
I suggested in another thread that the only way to change the course of things in this business would be through the emergence of a company that has the full support of the microstock community. I have an idea in mind of what the perfect microstock company would look like, but since I lack the millions of dollars required to start such a company, I'd like to suggest that we all consider throwing some additional support behind StockFresh.
Here's the idea:
SF is one of the few companies around that believes in fair compensation for contributors along side fair and understandable pricing for buyers. Best of both worlds, in my opinion. For those not currently contributing to SF, it's a 50% minimum royalty rate on single-image sales, with prices ranging from 1 to 20 credits, and credit prices being $1 or less. Discounts are absorbed by the company, not the contributors. Subscriptions pay out $0.35 per sale. Not quite as good as the $0.38 SS pays, but not bad either.
I think SF has the potential to be a game-changing company. In some ways, I think their faults actually work in their favor. The most common criticisms of SF are the slow progress and growth, and the bitterness some contributors feel over the whole StockXpert purchase and dismantling. The slow growth is frustrating, for sure. But the benefit of it is that SF doesn't have investors to answer to. There's no big marketing budget because there are no investors injecting funds into the company and looking to pull out a profit in a few years. And the StockXpert issue is a non-issue, I think. I get the impression that Peter and the team didn't want to see StockXpert go down the way it did any more than we did, and they probably wouldn't take SF down the same road.
There's also an issue of application review times, which is understandably frustrating but I'm hoping that SF staff can address this problem soon. More on this at the end of this post.
On the plus side, I think SF is the most promising company around today. Look at the alternatives. SS has an extremely uncertain future. The istock business model is so screwed up I doubt they'll ever make a come-back. DT, FT, who knows. But I don't see any reason to expect any growth there. From the middle-tier and low-tier companies, there are a few bright lights but no real stand-outs.
In a business where the list of companies you'd rather not support is far longer than the list of companies you like, it's easy to get caught up in the negatives. Let's face it: most of what we discuss in here is bad news. I think it's time we put a little of our community strength to good use and get behind a company that is trying to do things right, even if they're going about it in an unconventional way.
We're always talking about what other companies do wrong. SF is doing a lot right. Good business model, good rates, good prices, no investors. That's what we always hope for, right? So why aren't we all uploading everything we've got and screaming at people to buy there?
I know it's an investment of time, at a company that might not show a return for a while. But maybe "a while" can be closer than we think. In a forum post at SF, Peter mentioned that he expects the company to be profitable within a year. That's impressive for a microstock company. Earnings are slowly picking up. I'm hoping for my second payout within a few weeks. I think my effort has been covered at SF, the time I've put in so far has resulted in some earnings that at least make the couple hours of uploading worthwhile. And frankly, at this point what do we have to lose? I'm not seeing any better options anywhere else.
So to the point of my overly-dramatic thread title... I'd like to suggest a collective "call to arms" and community effort to throw some more support behind StockFresh. How do we do this, you might ask?
Here's what I suggest:
1. If you're not already uploading to StockFresh, do it. If you're already uploading, upload your full portfolio.
2. Tell people about SF. I talk to buyers all the time. I know I can influence some of them to try other sites, especially those coming from istock and being tired of the high prices. When people ask about alternatives, SF should be one of them. It might not be right for every buyer yet, as the collection is fairly small, but it's worth a try.
3. Promote online. I put most of my recent work in a flickr account, watermarked of course, and in the description I link to the corresponding image page at SF. I then promote those flickr images in flickr groups, and most of the time I can get an image a couple hundred views within a few weeks. I noticed an immediate increase in views and sales at SF when I started doing this a few months ago, and I'm sure it helps.
Beyond flickr, use whatever means you have to spread the word. SF is one of the few sites that can legitimately be called a "fair trade" site, and more contributors should know about that and why it's important. Blog about it, post on facebook, twitter, etc.
A small request to StockFresh staff
Hopefully Peter or someone from SF will read this. And hopefully they'll be inspired by what I hope will be more support behind this idea in the form of encouraging posts. ;) But I couldn't ask all of this of the community without asking for a little help from SF as well.
There are people who want to support SF, but haven't had the chance. Or people who have tried and gave up. You guys need to get the applications review issue fixed. If somehow SF doesn't work out, it will be the worst way to go down if the reason ends up being that you didn't get enough contributor support, and too many contributors were left at the door wanting to get in but unable to simply because of the lack of ability to adequately review applications. And I'm not saying that you should let everyone in. I'm sure there will always be some applications that should rightfully be refused. But there have been some talented folks left hanging with applications going unreviewed for months at a time. We've got to get that handled somehow.
So that's the idea. Let me know what you think. I'm open to criticism. If you think SF is the worst company to get behind, I'm all ears. This is just my opinion, and SF is where I personally feel compelled to focus my efforts in terms of small start-up companies. I hope many of you will consider doing the same. It's so easy to get caught up in the negatives of this business and to think that we can't do anything to change the trajectory of microstock. I truly believe that the right company can be the game-changer, though, and maybe SF could become that company. They're not perfect, but they've got a lot going for them. I'd like to see SF in that Top Tier list, and I think that collectively we can help make that happen.
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I'm in a hurry and I haven't read your full post yet, but I really like StockFresh! So +1 for you! ;)
I will read the entire post later ;)
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So why aren't we all uploading everything we've got and screaming at people to buy there?
Probably because everyone figures they'll just get screwed by them eventually too?
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But it's hardly a start-up, is it? Hasn't it been hanging around for years not achieving anything? And aren't the people behind it the guys from StockXpert, who sold up that site when it was starting to make money? It looks to me like a way of putting a lot of effort into going nowhere.
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So why aren't we all uploading everything we've got and screaming at people to buy there?
Probably because everyone figures they'll just get screwed by them eventually too?
Everyone got screwed by Jupiter and Getty. StockXpert was sold to Jupiter. At that point, they had no say in where the site ended up, and my understanding is that the StockXpert team believed the site would remain intact and operational under Jupiter. It wasn't until Getty got their hands on it that it fell apart.
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But it's hardly a start-up, is it? Hasn't it been hanging around for years not achieving anything? And aren't the people behind it the guys from StockXpert, who sold up that site when it was starting to make money? It looks to me like a way of putting a lot of effort into going nowhere.
I'm seeing growth, and although it has taken a long time, there is progress. I know $50 in a month is nothing to get excited about. That will barely put gas in my car for a couple of weeks. But it's more than SF has ever earned me so far.
The slow growth is due to a lack of marketing, and the lack of marketing is due to a lack of investors. But depending on how you look at it, that might not be a bad thing. Sure it's frustrating watching a very slow train try to pick up speed. But in a time in the business where investors are often viewed as a potentially bad thing, maybe SF's lack of investors could be their saving grace.
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I thought the owners had a big lump of cash that they got from StockXpert. If they don't believe enough in the new site to spend on marketing, why should I? Rhetorical question, really; support them if you like but with their current performance I can find better things to do with the time.
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I do support stockfresh, submit regulary and buy there too.
...and just to produce a backlink more to them: http://www.stockfresh.com (http://www.stockfresh.com)
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I thought the owners had a big lump of cash that they got from StockXpert. If they don't believe enough in the new site to spend on marketing, why should I? Rhetorical question, really; support them if you like but with their current performance I can find better things to do with the time.
Like what? Hang out in the forums and complain about all the negatives in this business? And I'm not directing that at you specifically. I'm as guilty of that as anyone. Start a thread about something istock is doing wrong and I'm there. :)
I'm just saying, it's easy to sit around and chat about everything going wrong in microstock these days, and no doubt I'm a part of that as well. As a change of pace, though, I think it might be worthwhile to put a little time into something potentially positive. Even if it's a long shot, it's time better spent than time in here talking about everything going wrong and how we can't do much about it. This is something we can do, and it might have a positive impact on us and on the business.
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It's impressive that you're seeing good results at StockFresh. I'm not; I've made a grand total of fifty cents this month, and haven't had a payout there in almost a year. StockFresh ranks at #14 for me over the last year, behind even Crestock. I see no sign of life to justify uploading, and doubt any promoting I could do would make any difference at all.
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It's impressive that you're seeing good results at StockFresh. I'm not; I've made a grand total of fifty cents this month, and haven't had a payout there in almost a year. StockFresh ranks at #14 for me over the last year, behind even Crestock. I see no sign of life to justify uploading, and doubt any promoting I could do would make any difference at all.
If we want to protect _our_ market immediate Profit is not the only reason to upload to a Agency. Strengthening competition is another one e.g.. With every upload you may not get immdiate Cash return but you balance out a bit the power of the big ones and thus their ability to dominate and dictate the conditions of the market.
Beyond that, I get regulary sales there....
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But it's hardly a start-up, is it? Hasn't it been hanging around for years not achieving anything? And aren't the people behind it the guys from StockXpert, who sold up that site when it was starting to make money? It looks to me like a way of putting a lot of effort into going nowhere.
Exactly!
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I'm already in there with my full port, and will continue to be patient. I still hope for good things with Stockfresh. It would be good to see Peter drop in and give us an update, as he used to.
I didn't know about the application approval issues. That certainly sounds like a bit of a disincentive for new arrivals. I'm rather surprised to hear it as their review process is incredibly fast. My last submission there was sent through about 10 seconds before I uploaded to Canstock, and Stockfresh had accepted my image before the Canstock one had completed uploading(!)
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But it's hardly a start-up, is it? Hasn't it been hanging around for years not achieving anything? And aren't the people behind it the guys from StockXpert, who sold up that site when it was starting to make money? It looks to me like a way of putting a lot of effort into going nowhere.
Exactly!
"Exactly" to which part? Lack of activity or the fact that StockXpert guys are behind SF? Just wondering which part of that keeps you away from the site, or if it's both points.
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So why aren't we all uploading everything we've got and screaming at people to buy there?
My reason would be that I think prices and RPD are lower there than what I look for in an ideal agency. Also, they have subscriptions. I would say places like GL, Cutcaster, Drawshop or Toon Vectors are closer.
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Michael I am with you! not many sales but I still believe in it, we need to, SF spend a few more $$ too :D
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But it's hardly a start-up, is it? Hasn't it been hanging around for years not achieving anything? And aren't the people behind it the guys from StockXpert, who sold up that site when it was starting to make money? It looks to me like a way of putting a lot of effort into going nowhere.
Exactly!
"Exactly" to which part? Lack of activity or the fact that StockXpert guys are behind SF? Just wondering which part of that keeps you away from the site, or if it's both points.
I'd say "exactly" to all of it. They've been operational for two years, and they're still a drop in the ocean. They sold out once before, screwing us in the process. Didn't they promise a marketing push when their collection reached critical mass? Whatever happened to that?
It may be too late for a new entrant to make big money, for themselves or for their artists. But whether or not that's true, I don't see any sign that StockFresh will become a major player.
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I'm seeing growth, and although it has taken a long time, there is progress. I know $50 in a month is nothing to get excited about. That will barely put gas in my car for a couple of weeks. But it's more than SF has ever earned me so far.
I think that's the rub. I'm not seeing growth or progress. I've been there nearly a year. Admittedly I have only about half my portfolio there, but there are perfectly salable images
In nearly a year I've "made" $23.50 at Stockfresh. I'd be over the moon about $50 a month from them - most months I'm lucky if it's $5
I appreciate your initiative, but with such pitiful results so far, I'm not as enthusiastic about them as you are. I'm not removing my portfolio - it'd be nice to live long enough to get a payout - but that's as far as I go unless I see some sales.
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...I appreciate your initiative, but with such pitiful results so far, I'm not as enthusiastic about them as you are. I'm not removing my portfolio - it'd be nice to live long enough to get a payout - but that's as far as I go unless I see some sales.
I understand the concern about the lack of sales, but I'm suggesting that we do something here that isn't motivated strictly by what's on the table right now. This is a bet on potential. If sales alone are what will motivate people to upload, I get it. But I'm hoping that maybe we can take a shot at something unconventional and throw some support behind an unproven company.
I don't view SF as just another random wannabe microstock agency. This is, in my opinion, the only company around today with a real chance of growing into something big. And with all of the reasons to be frustrated with microstock in general today, I was hoping that maybe more people would want to get behind something that could be good, even if there's very little going on right now in terms of earnings. It's a leap of faith, for sure. But why not... in the current microstock climate, I see no reason to solely focus on the negative and not take a chance on something crazy like this. Even if it doesn't work out, at least we're trying something to change the always-bad-news trend going on here.
I'm open to suggestions if anyone thinks there is a better way to focus our collective efforts for some positive change. I just view SF as possibly the best opportunity to do this.
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This is not new business any more...
Complete and potential market is already involved...
So opportunity for new agency is only in hijacking of customers...
Stockxpert had chance... But it appears that they sold whole cow for one delicious steak...
So there is no fresh milk any more...
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I wonder if they lost all client contacts/database whatever...
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Nope, sorry. I had 5-6.000 of files with them and I pulled the plug. I never saw more than $20 in a month, they are simply deaf to suggestions (well not exactly deaf, but they never took action to any advice) and the only thing they always say it's "starting is difficult, we ask you for patience, etc".
They'll never gonna make it. But I wished they did, as everyone else.
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Sorry, not a chance!...they sold out once and personally I'm not going to give them a chance to do it again, not with my pennies at least. Good luck.
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Michael why donīt you have all your port up there? ::)
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...I appreciate your initiative, but with such pitiful results so far, I'm not as enthusiastic about them as you are. I'm not removing my portfolio - it'd be nice to live long enough to get a payout - but that's as far as I go unless I see some sales.
I understand the concern about the lack of sales, but I'm suggesting that we do something here that isn't motivated strictly by what's on the table right now. This is a bet on potential. ...
Fair enough, but what is the owner doing to promote, market and build the site? I heard that with enough images there'd be a marketing campaign, and since then calls for patience. Perhaps he is doing something, but there's no newsletter to contributors or blog where that's been communicated to us (if there is anything).
I could be persuaded to overlook past poor performance, and possibly the sale to Jupiter of StockXpert as well, if there were some sort of push from the owner, but as far as I can see nothing at all is happening their end. If he doesn't care, what good could we do that would overcome that?
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Michael why donīt you have all your port up there? ::)
I have what matters. I'm not going to upload the junk from 5 years ago that doesn't sell anywhere.
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Michael why donīt you have all your port up there? ::)
I have what matters. I'm not going to upload the junk from 5 years ago that doesn't sell anywhere.
sure, I believe I don't need to teach the lesson to a priest, my bad (thats a portuguese expression)
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I wouldnt mind at all but I find the guys running SF, are not doing it the way they ran SX, their search engine, is no good at all and thats the heart of a site.
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It's impressive that you're seeing good results at StockFresh. I'm not; I've made a grand total of fifty cents this month, and haven't had a payout there in almost a year. StockFresh ranks at #14 for me over the last year, behind even Crestock. I see no sign of life to justify uploading, and doubt any promoting I could do would make any difference at all.
I'm seeing similar sales. I think it takes me 4-6 months to get a $50 payout. And I do upload everything. Their upload process is easy, and I have nothing but good will toward the site and its owners, so I continue to upload there. However I am not seeing much in the way of results.
Still, for all the reasons you mentioned, Mike, I will continue to support them and hope for the best... :)
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I'd love to see them expand, but I must say leaving me hanging in the wind for over a year with my application did not engender a lot of good will.
I have sent all my recent (last 3 years) stuff, but I am still not getting many sales, usually only one or 2 a month. I do remember talk of a "marketing push" a few years ago.
It does sound like your Flikr promotion has worked, which is good for you and for them.
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sure, I believe I don't need to teach the lesson to a priest, my bad (thats a portuguese expression)
What's your problem? So I didn't upload my old junk. Because I don't have 100% of my portfolio on SF I'm disqualified from encouraging anyone to upload there?
I have my complete portfolio as it stands today on SF. It's not my entire body of work, it's what my portfolio is as I consider it complete and current today. Sorry I didn't specify that I didn't mean everyone should upload every last image regardless of quality or usefulness. Figured most sensible folks would have got that though.
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It's impressive that you're seeing good results at StockFresh. I'm not; I've made a grand total of fifty cents this month, and haven't had a payout there in almost a year. StockFresh ranks at #14 for me over the last year, behind even Crestock. I see no sign of life to justify uploading, and doubt any promoting I could do would make any difference at all.
There's an old saying, "once bitten, twice shy". While I agree with your comments, I suppose I will keep uploading there, although it ain't high on my list of upload priorities. But while I will sit back and let FTP do its work I really have very little confidence that SF will go anywhere, kinds like Mystock and Vivozoom....remember them?
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sure, I believe I don't need to teach the lesson to a priest, my bad (thats a portuguese expression)
What's your problem? So I didn't upload my old junk. Because I don't have 100% of my portfolio on SF I'm disqualified from encouraging anyone to upload there?
I have my complete portfolio as it stands today on SF. It's not my entire body of work, it's what my portfolio is as I consider it complete and current today. Sorry I didn't specify that I didn't mean everyone should upload every last image regardless of quality or usefulness. Figured most sensible folks would have got that though.
JEEZ man, read again, I said MY BAD and that I am sure that you are doing the right thing, peace!
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JEEZ man, read again, I said MY BAD and that I am sure that you are doing the right thing, peace!
Sorry, didn't get that. Think I misread the whole priest thing. My apologies.
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helix7, I hear what you're saying, but at this point the problem is "donor fatigue".
I put my (small) portfolio on CC and GL because - initially at least - they offered reasonable commissions. After a couple of years, I never sell anything on CC, and get a very occasional sale at GL. The only way I'd submit to another "promising new site" wold be if it took absolutely no work in addition to uploading.
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I upload all I can to SF but the sales aren't very encouraging. I'm patient but unfortunately, I'm not typical and too many people give up on small sites. There are other sites that I think are also worth supporting. GLStockImages and YayMicro also have decent commissions and reasonable prices for buyers. Should we push all 3 sites? I think they all deserve as much contributor backing as possible.
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I upload all I can to SF but the sales aren't very encouraging. I'm patient but unfortunately, I'm not typical and too many people give up on small sites. There are other sites that I think are also worth supporting. GLStockImages and YayMicro also have decent commissions and reasonable prices for buyers. Should we push all 3 sites? I think they all deserve as much contributor backing as possible.
+1
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Some people were excited about PD for a while, and I started submtting there, but it went nowhere. Their prices and commissions are just too low, so I'm wondering why I bothered, and thinking I'll close that account.
When I make that rare sale at GL, I get $3, and at least I don't feel like a complete chump for participating.
It seems like none of the "new" sites have gained any real traction against the big agencies, which only continue to drive commissions down. Some new model has to emerge - not just another me-too site.
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Some people were excited about PD for a while, and I started submtting there, but it went nowhere. Their prices and commissions are just too low, so I'm wondering why I bothered, and thinking I'll close that account.
When I make that rare sale at GL, I get $3, and at least I don't feel like a complete chump for participating.
It seems like none of the "new" sites have gained any real traction against the big agencies, which only continue to drive commissions down. Some new model has to emerge - not just another me-too site.
again thats your experience, you can generalize it that way, sure they wonīt rock the world but why not supporting them? if they arenīt working and you have no patience, just quit simple as that
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So why aren't we all uploading everything we've got and screaming at people to buy there?
Probably because everyone figures they'll just get screwed by them eventually too?
True. Microstock contributor = cynic.
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True. Microstock contributor = cynic.
You're right, and it's really too bad it's come to this. A few years ago, this forum and others were filled with optimism. I didn't start out as a cynic, and I'll bet most of us didn't. It's the actions of the agencies and the trends over the past couple of years that have made cynics out of so many of us.
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You're right, and it's really too bad it's come to this. A few years ago, this forum and others were filled with optimism. I didn't start out as a cynic, and I'll bet most of us didn't. It's the actions of the agencies and the trends over the past couple of years that have made cynics out of so many of us.
I don't believe that. We make our own way in this business, just like anything else. I'm as optimistic as ever. Coming off 2 BMEs in the last 3 months. There's still a lot of potential here and a lot to be optimistic about. And I'm not just saying that as a vector guy. Some photographers are saying the same.
Since it seems I'm on a roll with unpopular opinions lately, might as well go for broke...
Sure some of the agencies suck these days. So what. Who cares. They'll come and go, and somehow lots of folks will continue to manage to do well and make a good living here. The buyers will always be there, and they'll always need images. In the end, all that matters is what we do. Despite whatever odds we think are stacked up against us in this business, somehow lots of folks manage to increase their income year after year, regardless of what the agencies do. In short, we've got no one to blame but ourselves if things aren't going well for us individually.
I see StockFresh as an opportunity to shift some of the business away from the bad agencies and into a good one that pays well. And one that doesn't have investors to answer to. It amazes me that there's so much support and enthusiasm for DepositPhotos, a company that owes a ton to investors and will eventually need to answer to them, while SF has no such burden, pays better, is truly independent, and somehow meets with more resistance.
None of this is directed at you specifically, Lisa. Just ranting in general.
Obviously I'm in the vast minority here with my optimism and support for SF. And it's a shame really. SF could likely fall apart with such lackluster contributor/community support, and they're one of the few good companies left that I think could really change things for the better, for all of us.
You're right Lisa, there is definitely a negative trend going on here. But I don't think it originated with the agencies. It originated in this forum, and it's perpetuated by this collective desire for things to always be bad and to shun any chance for something good to thrive. Thankfully it's a trend that I don't have to be a part of.
Best of luck to you all.
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I loved StockXpert. Too bad its owners sold it out to the dark side. As for Stockfresh, let it go the way of Lucky Oliver. That's the fate it deserves.
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helix7, I agree with you up to a point. But success isn't totally up to us, because we're not operating in a free, healthy marketplace. Instead we have a small number of middlemen who completely control the situation; producers and buyers can't deal directly, can't even learn each others' identities. That's not a real marketplace - instead it's very much like the exploitive situation faced by small farmers in undeveloped countries. From time to time new middlemen show up, say nice things, we give them our wares, and they drive off and we never hear from them again. This "business model", which so closely resembles subsistence agriculture, is just not going to work; something new has to take its place.
I can produce good images. They sell. The whole problem is, prices are too low, and pricing is "one size fits all". How is StockFresh part of the solution?
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Some people were excited about PD for a while, and I started submtting there, but it went nowhere. Their prices and commissions are just too low, so I'm wondering why I bothered, and thinking I'll close that account.
When I make that rare sale at GL, I get $3, and at least I don't feel like a complete chump for participating.
It seems like none of the "new" sites have gained any real traction against the big agencies, which only continue to drive commissions down. Some new model has to emerge - not just another me-too site.
Exactly my thoughts....
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I loved StockXpert. Too bad its owners sold it out to the dark side. As for Stockfresh, let it go the way of Lucky Oliver. That's the fate it deserves.
+1
helix7, I hear what you're saying, but at this point the problem is "donor fatigue".
I put my (small) portfolio on CC and GL because - initially at least - they offered reasonable commissions. After a couple of years, I never sell anything on CC, and get a very occasional sale at GL. The only way I'd submit to another "promising new site" wold be if it took absolutely no work in addition to uploading.
What I want to see happen is a new microstock hosting site where we can upload our images to, add titles, description and keyword them all on this one site. We have tick boxes for all the agencies and we tick the one's we want to contribute to. The relevant agents then pick up our images, keywords, descriptions etc, from there. Let them do the work if they want it on their sites. No reviews either. If they want it, they take it, if they don't, they leave it alone. When they sell, the hosting site gets a small commission. It's sort of like the third parties but in reverse making all the agents third parties. That's where I'd like this to go. Imagine the time we would save?
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So why aren't we all uploading everything we've got and screaming at people to buy there?
Probably because everyone figures they'll just get screwed by them eventually too?
True. Microstock contributor = cynic.
Youre right! cynical, etc. Funny thing is, this is the way the downfall of the Trad-agencies, started, back in early 90s. The ones that survived sold out to Getty and the rest is history.
Best advice I can give to the guys at SF, is to start showing their best and most professional stuff, in the beginning of every search, never mind taking a "fair" attitude and sort of give everyone a chance. That philosophy has never worked and is down and out dangerous to business.
Its like IS, is doing at the moment, they promote their exclusive stuff, even when its just pure rubbish, as long as its exclusive. Ofcourse it doesnt sell, not in the 4 categories Im monitoring anyway.
I am uploading to them, BTW, at least for the time being.
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I think im one of those whe was left hanging at the gate, a year ago or something.
Now i tried to check the site and login.
I couldnt login.
Password refresh didnt work.
Not convincing.
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With an average of about $100/mo in commissions at the old stockxpert, my applcation hung for something like 6 months even though I notified them of my former account when applying. Stockfresh can stick it. I'm on to bigger and better things so doesn't much matter any more..
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I wonder if Peter is actually actively working on the business, or has just left it to tick over as some residual income while he gets on with new projects?
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I wonder if Peter is actually actively working on the business, or has just left it to tick over as some residual income while he gets on with new projects?
Good question. Scanstock seems to work that way, hardly any costs, hardly any effort and a bit of a cash return. It's probably more lucrative and less effort than creating your own images and trying to find people to sell them and, who knows, sometime someone in a suit might give you a suitcase full of dosh for a site like that.
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True. Microstock contributor = cynic.
You're right, and it's really too bad it's come to this. A few years ago, this forum and others were filled with optimism. I didn't start out as a cynic, and I'll bet most of us didn't. It's the actions of the agencies and the trends over the past couple of years that have made cynics out of so many of us.
"A Cynic is a disappointed optimist" (various attributions, and a variant 'idealist' instead of optimist)
Also, in trying to find the origin of the above, I found:
"Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be."
Ambrose Bierce
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one post was removed due to language. Share your feelings and disagree but keep the language clean.
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Some people were excited about PD for a while, and I started submtting there, but it went nowhere. Their prices and commissions are just too low, so I'm wondering why I bothered, and thinking I'll close that account. ...
I still submit to PD - started in late November, made my first payout in April (only just got it May 15 which I don't like) and am just over 1/3 of the way to my next payout. When I compare that to $23.50 from StockFresh since last June or July, and a RPD of just under $1, I think it's still worth uploading to.
Deposit Photos isn't for me. Low commissions and some business practices I don't think are OK.
On another note, I see helix7 left rather abruptly. I don't at all agree that people in the forums are all just looking for things to be bad. Some of us have just had a rough few years with agencies who have gone from treating us like partners - valuable partners in some cases - to an irritating cost of doing business to be looted and plundered where possible.
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It's a pity if he took his ball home. Good luck to him.
He seems to have forgotten (if he's been around long enough) that StockXpert and Fotolia were both meant to be God's gift to photographers against the evil iStock. Before that, iStock was championing the little guy against the evil might of the Getty empire. What happened to all those agencies? As soon as they were big enough their owners went looking for a big payday to line their pockets ... and to H*ll with the interests of their contributors.
When the same people come back with the same story of being the champion of the little guy, is it surprising that their blandishments are met with scepticism?
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OOOOOPPS, post removed due to language, i wsnt thinking, sorry. here it is cleaned up.
have not read the posts BUT-----------------the heck with-----------------------------STOCKFRESH!
What other co. you know that does not even review your inital port.
Just tell me i stink and fail me! My port has been in review since they jst abt started. wasted time uploading to those (insert exxplative) relating to a bodily orifice.
I HATE new little co. (i know they were stockx) but now they are just another little new comp.
little co. jst wast your time uploading and then u get 2 sales a year.
bite me stock fresh
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Some people were excited about PD for a while, and I started submtting there, but it went nowhere. Their prices and commissions are just too low, so I'm wondering why I bothered, and thinking I'll close that account. ...
I still submit to PD - started in late November, made my first payout in April (only just got it May 15 which I don't like) and am just over 1/3 of the way to my next payout. When I compare that to $23.50 from StockFresh since last June or July, and a RPD of just under $1, I think it's still worth uploading to.
I actually got a sale today: 33 cents. Isn't PD just making on-demand sales at subscription prices? What are we accomplishing, when we give them our products, except helping them make money by taking sales away from SS or DT?
I plan to close my account there as soon as I get to payout. I'm just not seeing the point.
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Some people were excited about PD for a while, and I started submtting there, but it went nowhere. Their prices and commissions are just too low, so I'm wondering why I bothered, and thinking I'll close that account. ...
I still submit to PD - started in late November, made my first payout in April (only just got it May 15 which I don't like) and am just over 1/3 of the way to my next payout. When I compare that to $23.50 from StockFresh since last June or July, and a RPD of just under $1, I think it's still worth uploading to.
I actually got a sale today: 33 cents. Isn't PD just making on-demand sales at subscription prices? What are we accomplishing, when we give them our products, except helping them make money by taking sales away from SS or DT?
I plan to close my account there as soon as I get to payout. I'm just not seeing the point.
I have a hard time getting past the "bold" statement. Is it an argument for going exclusive?
And, if not, how do you determine which agencies are best to represent your work ... without diluting the same images at another agency?
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Some people were excited about PD for a while, and I started submtting there, but it went nowhere. Their prices and commissions are just too low, so I'm wondering why I bothered, and thinking I'll close that account. ...
I still submit to PD - started in late November, made my first payout in April (only just got it May 15 which I don't like) and am just over 1/3 of the way to my next payout. When I compare that to $23.50 from StockFresh since last June or July, and a RPD of just under $1, I think it's still worth uploading to.
I actually got a sale today: 33 cents. Isn't PD just making on-demand sales at subscription prices? What are we accomplishing, when we give them our products, except helping them make money by taking sales away from SS or DT?
I plan to close my account there as soon as I get to payout. I'm just not seeing the point.
I have a hard time getting past the "bold" statement. Is it an argument for going exclusive?
And, if not, how do you determine which agencies are best to represent your work ... without diluting the same images at another agency?
No , being exclusive would never make sense to me, because it's too hard to undo that decision later. There are reasons to be on multiple agencies; it's something of a bulwark against outright abuse. But if the small new agencies are offering us exactly the same 33 cents as the big ones, we're not stopping the erosion of prices, in fact we're contributing to it.
I have my stuff on the big 3, plus GL, PD and CC. Only GL seems to be making sense to me at this point and I don't see a reason to diversify with more "me too" sites that aren't doing anything differently from existing ones. Like everyone, I want to kick back against big agencies that made us jump through all their approval hoops, then slashed commissions and changed all the rules. But I don't want to do it by just dumping my products at bargain basements across the street. Hope I'm making a coherent point and not just ranting...
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I actually got a sale today: 33 cents. Isn't PD just making on-demand sales at subscription prices?
again thats your own experience, I have close to 200$ and 253 sales (RPD at 0.79$)
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On another note, I see helix7 left rather abruptly. I don't at all agree that people in the forums are all just looking for things to be bad. Some of us have just had a rough few years with agencies who have gone from treating us like partners - valuable partners in some cases - to an irritating cost of doing business to be looted and plundered where possible.
Yes, exactly.
"A Cynic is a disappointed optimist" (various attributions, and a variant 'idealist' instead of optimist)
Also, in trying to find the origin of the above, I found:
"Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be."
Ambrose Bierce
Great quotes Liz! Sums it up perfectly! :)
Mike, I am sorry to see you go. You are one that always adds value and insight to the discussion. Sometimes we disagree (mostly not, though) but your opinions are always worth reading and provide good food for thought. Hope once you've taken a break you decide to return, either under the Helix7 name or some other identity.
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Come back helix7! It's boring when everyone agrees. Your OP was well written and kicked off an interesting discussion. I'm not even convinced I'm right.
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I actually got a sale today: 33 cents. Isn't PD just making on-demand sales at subscription prices? ...
For a subscription, you can (generally) get any size for 33 cents, 35 cents, 38 or whatever. For PD, I get $2.67 for the largest size and for 33 cents the buyer just gets a 548x365 XS (blog) image. It's not the same as subs at all
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Come back helix7! It's boring when everyone agrees. Your OP was well written and kicked off an interesting discussion. I'm not even convinced I'm right.
I second that! COME BACK HELIX!!! Don`t be a pu***y :D
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Come back helix7! It's boring when everyone agrees. Your OP was well written and kicked off an interesting discussion. I'm not even convinced I'm right.
I second that! COME BACK HELIX!!! Don`t be a pu***y :D
He never said he was leaving. He only inferred that he was done with this thread.
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deleted
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I actually got a sale today: 33 cents. Isn't PD just making on-demand sales at subscription prices? ...
For a subscription, you can (generally) get any size for 33 cents, 35 cents, 38 or whatever. For PD, I get $2.67 for the largest size and for 33 cents the buyer just gets a 548x365 XS (blog) image. It's not the same as subs at all
There must be something I don't understand. I've never gotten 2.67 at PD. I had one that paid me 1.65 - every other sale paid me 99/66/33 cents. I don't see the size of the image being reported along with the sale...?
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There must be something I don't understand. I've never gotten 2.67 at PD. I had one that paid me 1.65 - every other sale paid me 99/66/33 cents. I don't see the size of the image being reported along with the sale...?
In my statement tab I see the amount I got paid, the rate (33%) and then the Price column on the right - that's what the buyer paid. I meant $2.97 not $2.67 - that's for a $9 XXL sale and it's $2.31 for a $7 sale.
It doesn't show size but if you look at the image page it says $9 is for an XXL, $ for XL and so on. I'm inferring the size from the price.
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Come back helix7! It's boring when everyone agrees. Your OP was well written and kicked off an interesting discussion. I'm not even convinced I'm right.
I second that! COME BACK HELIX!!! Don`t be a pu***y :D
He never said he was leaving. He only inferred that he was done with this thread.
His account is disabled.
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Perhaps helix7 is on a temporary ban. Lots of people lose it occasionally in the forum and are back a few weeks later. Others pop up with a new name, Looks like Slovenian is back, giving people the chance to use the ignore button again :)
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Come back helix7! It's boring when everyone agrees. Your OP was well written and kicked off an interesting discussion. I'm not even convinced I'm right.
I second that! COME BACK HELIX!!! Don`t be a pu***y :D
He never said he was leaving. He only inferred that he was done with this thread.
His account is disabled.
Wow, too bad. I enjoy most of his posts. He has a pretty sensible demeanor.
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Hey guys. Sorry to cut and run. And thanks for the kind emails I've received.
I'm not banned. Just need to step away from the forums for a while. Sorry I didn't fully explain that, and please know that this is not only because of this thread. Right now I just feel like I'm wasting time here, there's no real discussion around anything positive these days, and I really need a break from all of the agency talk. It's not going anywhere.
I also had the opportunity to meet with some folks at SS recently and one of the things that came out of that conversation was a renewed realization that focusing on my work is what matters, and the rest of it is all just silly little stuff. There's nothing good coming out of being concerned with a lot of the things we get concerned with here.
So I'm focusing on my work, which really is the only thing that makes any difference in my income and it used to be what people talked about around here. Now it's all just which agency is screwing us over, which new whatever is bad for business, etc. None of this is helpful, and none of these discussions lead to any positive change.
I'll still be keeping in touch with the small regular group of folks I talk to on Skype and via email. I still love talking shop about microstock, that will never change. But the forums aren't the place for me to do that anymore. Anyone looking to reach me can do so through my website, emberstock.com.
If I do come back to the forums it will be under this new username, but that won't happen any time soon.
Thanks, everyone.
Mike
helix7
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Hey guys. Sorry to cut and run. And thanks for the kind emails I've received.
I'm not banned. Just need to step away from the forums for a while. Sorry I didn't fully explain that, and please know that this is not only because of this thread. Right now I just feel like I'm wasting time here, there's no real discussion around anything positive these days, and I really need a break from all of the agency talk. It's not going anywhere.
I also had the opportunity to meet with some folks at SS recently and one of the things that came out of that conversation was a renewed realization that focusing on my work is what matters, and the rest of it is all just silly little stuff. There's nothing good coming out of being concerned with a lot of the things we get concerned with here.
So I'm focusing on my work, which really is the only thing that makes any difference in my income and it used to be what people talked about around here. Now it's all just which agency is screwing us over, which new whatever is bad for business, etc. None of this is helpful, and none of these discussions lead to any positive change.
I'll still be keeping in touch with the small regular group of folks I talk to on Skype and via email. I still love talking shop about microstock, that will never change. But the forums aren't the place for me to do that anymore. Anyone looking to reach me can do so through my website, emberstock.com.
If I do come back to the forums it will be under this new username, but that won't happen any time soon.
Thanks, everyone.
Mike
helix7
Certainly empathize. Not many gold nuggets being found in the crap spread throughout our favorite forum. :-\
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In my statement tab I see the amount I got paid, the rate (33%) and then the Price column on the right - that's what the buyer paid. I meant $2.97 not $2.67 - that's for a $9 XXL sale and it's $2.31 for a $7 sale.
It doesn't show size but if you look at the image page it says $9 is for an XXL, $ for XL and so on. I'm inferring the size from the price.
So far all the sales I get are small sizes. That might relate to the sorts of images I do, which I guess is another indication that PD isn't for me.
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Hey guys. Sorry to cut and run. And thanks for the kind emails I've received.
I'm not banned. Just need to step away from the forums for a while. Sorry I didn't fully explain that, and please know that this is not only because of this thread. Right now I just feel like I'm wasting time here, there's no real discussion around anything positive these days, and I really need a break from all of the agency talk. It's not going anywhere.
I also had the opportunity to meet with some folks at SS recently and one of the things that came out of that conversation was a renewed realization that focusing on my work is what matters, and the rest of it is all just silly little stuff. There's nothing good coming out of being concerned with a lot of the things we get concerned with here.
So I'm focusing on my work, which really is the only thing that makes any difference in my income and it used to be what people talked about around here. Now it's all just which agency is screwing us over, which new whatever is bad for business, etc. None of this is helpful, and none of these discussions lead to any positive change.
I'll still be keeping in touch with the small regular group of folks I talk to on Skype and via email. I still love talking shop about microstock, that will never change. But the forums aren't the place for me to do that anymore. Anyone looking to reach me can do so through my website, emberstock.com.
If I do come back to the forums it will be under this new username, but that won't happen any time soon.
Thanks, everyone.
Mike
helix7
Cool. Thanks for the post, I totally understand. Sometimes the vibes here are hard to bear. However, you will be always welcome 8)
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So I'm focusing on my work, which really is the only thing that makes any difference in my income
Ain't that the truth. When it all seems negative it's definitely best to look at what's within your control and to work positively with that. Good luck EmberMike. Hopefully see you around here again further down the road. :)
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...one of the things that came out of that conversation was a renewed realization that focusing on my work is what matters, and the rest of it is all just silly little stuff. There's nothing good coming out of being concerned with a lot of the things we get concerned with here.
So I'm focusing on my work, which really is the only thing that makes any difference in my income and it used to be what people talked about around here. Now it's all just which agency is screwing us over, which new whatever is bad for business, etc. None of this is helpful, and none of these discussions lead to any positive change.
As usual, you make a really good point. It is easy to get swept up in the negativity and lose focus on the things we CAN control, like our work output, quality and volume. It's a good reminder to me, as I often get sucked in to focusing on the problems rather than solutions.
Thanks for coming back and saying a proper goodbye. :)
Wishing you all the best. You will be missed...
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Sorry to see you go. I try not to take this site too seriously, although I do need to take a break from it now and then (when it gets overly negative). For me, it's mostly entertainment. I just like to see everyone's opinions and what they are doing. Maybe, "edu-tainment" or "info-tainment" are better words to describe it.
As far as being optimistic, that's a mixed bag. I'm confident in what I'm doing, and I think I'll be fine. My revenue is increasing, and I like my game plan. That said, I'm pessimistic though on a lot of the industry. It seems like it has hit its growing pains, and the solutions to remedy those aren't necessarily positive or effective. I could be wrong though (it happens... a lot. More than I like to admit).
But worse comes to worse, I'll just have to get a real job. Then, you'll see less of me too. ;D
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But worse comes to worse, I'll just have to get a real job. Then, you'll see less of me too. ;D
God forbid!!
;)
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I upload all my work there. I wish that sales were better but it takes about 1% of my time I spend on microstock to submit to SF. Their upload process is easy, reviews happen quickly.
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Back on topic....I had some nice sales over at SF the last days. Every sale they make may be one sale less at istock, fotolia,... :D
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Dragons Den! anybody here watching that on TV?. How many times do you see these tycoons investing in a project because they like the person? NEVER! they always invest in the idea, presented. I.E. never mix business with personal feelings, biggest mistake one can do. Sure, by all means help with know-how, etc, but never invest.
This thread is going the opposite way, lots of personal feelings, etc, nice! but not effective.
I like SF and the team behind it and I upload but untill they get their act, search, etc, together, I will refrain from sticking my entire port up.
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I upload in the background while doing other stuff. It takes virtually zero time. On Dragons Den, they love an investment where they can't lose, there's only an upside for them and the other people are taking all the financial risk. I think Yuri is the best microstock businessman and he has 53,159 images on SF.
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I upload in the background while doing other stuff. It takes virtually zero time. On Dragons Den, they love an investment where they can't lose, there's only an upside for them and the other people are taking all the financial risk. I think Yuri is the best microstock businessman and he has 53,159 images on SF.
There is nothing like an investment (s), where you cant lose. Better then wine, women and song. :)
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Nope, sorry. I had 5-6.000 of files with them and I pulled the plug. I never saw more than $20 in a month, they are simply deaf to suggestions (well not exactly deaf, but they never took action to any advice) and the only thing they always say it's "starting is difficult, we ask you for patience, etc".
They'll never gonna make it. But I wished they did, as everyone else.
Same here, till now it was a waste of time...
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Hi Everyone!
First of all, thanks Helix7 for the kind words and the initiative to support Stockfresh and I'm also very grateful for those who have been supporting us all along. I read the original post about 2 days ago but didn't continue reading the rest because I expected the exact same reaction that you can see in the first couple of pages and this kind of negativity, ignorance and malice is not easy to tolerate.
Instead of personal replies I'd just like to follow up on a couple of general sentiments.
1. The idea of "selling out"
This is the last time I'm going to write about this. Stockxpert was party owned by Jupiter right from the start. Most of you weren't even there yet. The reason why it got shut down eventually is that Jupiter had to sell their images division during the 2008 financial crisis and within the Getty family there was no place for StockXpert. This wasn't a planned event, but an unfortunate coincidence.
This is not the real point though. The point is, most stock sites out there are already partly owned by a 3rd party (or going to be soon) because companies need to raise capital to function and grow. This happens in all stages. Depositphotos got $1-3 million, Fotolia just got $150 million and Shutterstock is going for an IPO as we speak.
Labeling us as "sellouts" just for taking investments is ridiculous, especially if at the same time you also blame us for not growing as fast as the competition who are also "sellouts". Make up your mind! :D By the way, I have to mention that during the Jupiter partnership which lasted several years, not once has the royalty rate been reduced. Not everything was perfect, but we're definitely proud of that.
And also, for the brilliant mind who suggested investing our money to prove that we believe in the project: well, guess what happened! ;) We took a big risk and invested our own money and a great deal of time into Stockfresh. I personally designed and developed the whole site from scratch for example. All the work we put into the site is already paying off, and it's just going to get better.
2. The site has been around for ages, it's not a startup any more.
Stockfresh is about to become just 2 years old. If you ever tried to build a business, you'd realize that success doesn't happen overnight. It takes many years of hard work and dedication. I know that expectations are very high but it's unrealistic to expect Stockfresh to rise to the top so soon. We have great growth though and the site can already support itself, so I have bad news for the guy who hoped for our Lucky Oliveresque demise that we apparently "deserve" (how can someone be so evil in the first place, that's a really good question): we're definitely not going anywhere and we'll continue to grow at an even faster rate. In your face! ;)
3. My photos don't sell at all / I had a lot of sales on StockXpert but this site is a waste of time.
It's a fact that despite our growth we're still quite small. Some types of images therefore won't sell well, or at all. Not everything can be attributed to the lack of traffic though, we often see clearly useless subjects or badly keyworded and dated imagery that have very limited potential. Obviously a lot of the latter sold well on StockXpert partly because that was 4-5 years ago and partly because we had significantly larger traffic there. A lot of things changed since then. As you are all well aware of this, competition between contributors now is fierce. There's a huge influx of talent and you have to be really good to stay on top. This effect gets amplified on sites with smaller traffic, so Stockfresh is not for everyone (at least for the time being), but a number of contributors do quite well, even some with smaller portfolios. We also try to make it easy for contributors to submit (we even import portfolios if necessary) so you don't waste any of your time, but you have got to have what it takes.
Once again thank you very much to those who support us. If you have any questions you know where to reach me. There's been a few things I'd still like to address but I have to run now so I'll do that in a later post.
See ya,
Peter
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Hi Everyone!
First of all, thanks Helix7 for the kind words and the initiative to support Stockfresh and I'm also very grateful for those who have been supporting us all along. I read the original post about 2 days ago but didn't continue reading the rest because I expected the exact same reaction that you can see in the first couple of pages and this kind of negativity, ignorance and malice is not easy to tolerate.
Instead of personal replies I'd just like to follow up on a couple of general sentiments.
1. The idea of "selling out"
This is the last time I'm going to write about this. Stockxpert was party owned by Jupiter right from the start. Most of you weren't even there yet. The reason why it got shut down eventually is that Jupiter had to sell their images division during the 2008 financial crisis and within the Getty family there was no place for StockXpert. This wasn't a planned event, but an unfortunate coincidence.
This is not the real point though. The point is, most stock sites out there are already partly owned by a 3rd party (or going to be soon) because companies need to raise capital to function and grow. This happens in all stages. Depositphotos got $1-3 million, Fotolia just got $150 million and Shutterstock is going for an IPO as we speak.
Labeling us as "sellouts" just for taking investments is ridiculous, especially if at the same time you also blame us for not growing as fast as the competition who are also "sellouts". Make up your mind! :D By the way, I have to mention that during the Jupiter partnership which lasted several years, not once has the royalty rate been reduced. Not everything was perfect, but we're definitely proud of that.
And also, for the brilliant mind who suggested investing our money to prove that we believe in the project: well, guess what happened! ;) We took a big risk and invested our own money and a great deal of time into Stockfresh. I personally designed and developed the whole site from scratch for example. All the work we put into the site is already paying off, and it's just going to get better.
2. The site has been around for ages, it's not a startup any more.
Stockfresh is about to become just 2 years old. If you ever tried to build a business, you'd realize that success doesn't happen overnight. It takes many years of hard work and dedication. I know that expectations are very high but it's unrealistic to expect Stockfresh to rise to the top so soon. We have great growth though and the site can already support itself, so I have bad news for the guy who hoped for our Lucky Oliveresque demise that we apparently "deserve" (how can someone be so evil in the first place, that's a really good question): we're definitely not going anywhere and we'll continue to grow at an even faster rate. In your face! ;)
3. My photos don't sell at all / I had a lot of sales on StockXpert but this site is a waste of time.
It's a fact that despite our growth we're still quite small. Some types of images therefore won't sell well, or at all. Not everything can be attributed to the lack of traffic though, we often see clearly useless subjects or badly keyworded and dated imagery that have very limited potential. Obviously a lot of the latter sold well on StockXpert partly because that was 4-5 years ago and partly because we had significantly larger traffic there. A lot of things changed since then. As you are all well aware of this, competition between contributors now is fierce. There's a huge influx of talent and you have to be really good to stay on top. This effect gets amplified on sites with smaller traffic, so Stockfresh is not for everyone (at least for the time being), but a number of contributors do quite well, even some with smaller portfolios. We also try to make it easy for contributors to submit (we even import portfolios if necessary) so you don't waste any of your time, but you have got to have what it takes.
Once again thank you very much to those who support us. If you have any questions you know where to reach me. There's been a few things I'd still like to address but I have to run now so I'll do that in a later post.
See ya,
Peter
Hi Pete! thanks for your info, nice and sincere and to the point. We will support! no doubt about that. :)
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Thanks for dropping in with an update Peter. :)
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Thanks Peter....as said before, I continue to support you and never felt it as a "waste of time".
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Thanks for weighing in Peter. The upload with the easy upload process and the good contributor terms, it is worth continuing to upload IMO. :)
Would be nice, if you have a chance, to hear your plans for growing the site and its traffic in the future.
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Hi, Peter.
I'll admit I thought you had been around for more than two years when I initially posted, more like three +. That said, on the one hand you use the old trad-business argument that it takes years to get established, on the other you use the digital-era argument that stuff changes so fast that changes so fast that three or four years renders content outdated. That dual approach seems illogical to me. It would also seem to be bad news for those who supported you from the start but whose early images are out of date before you achieve lift-off.
Deposit Photos arrived after you but, you point out, needed 1-3m $ to propel it into its fiftn place on the chart opposite, with 20% of what SS delivers. You've had longer and achieved a tenth of that (if the figures are to be believed).
I'm the brilliant mind that suggested putting your money where your mouth is and you say you have, and have even designed the site yourself. Of course you have put SOME money into it, but you hold up the $1m-$3m for DP as an example of the heavy capital investment needed to boost a site ... yet I seem to recall that anecdotally you are meant to be a multi-millionaire from the sale of StockXpert. If so, why do you appear to find DP's investment impressive when you should be able to match that yourself? If you have and have not got results then I am sorry but that also fails to inspire confidence.
I remain sceptical. If you start soaring up the lists then I will probably sit up and take notice and start offering submissions (though you might not want me on your site) but until then it looks to me like a wasted effort.
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I will support you and SF but I really think you arenīt spending enough..
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Almost 2 years ago I tried to apply and they told me come back in 4 weeks, nothing happened and I emailed 6 months later and they replied that they don't accept new contributors. I don't say there was no reason, my images certainly were not top notch, but today, 2 years later most of them are and I'm kicking on the top agencies who accepted me in the beginning. Why support SF now?????????? They didn't support me and we have plenty other $50 a year agencies.
Whatsoever, I'm ready to upload ........ how much do you pay per approved image?
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From what Peter is saying, no. 1 we already knew, he's said that before, no. 2 the same - we heard that almost every time he comes to MSG, and for no. 3 - when a bunch of top echelon stock photographers say that their sales on SF suck, the normal thought is that there's something wrong with SF.
Thanks for confirming that I made a right decision by leaving.
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Paul, has got a big point here! speculate and invest in order to accumulate.
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....I remain sceptical. If you start soaring up the lists then I will probably sit up and take notice and start offering submissions (though you might not want me on your site) but until then it looks to me like a wasted effort.
That's the chicken and egg situation that new sites have to face. Buyers want a big collection and don't have much of a reason to move to a site that has less choice. We want sales but wont get them without buyers.
I think the best way to break this is for us to upload as much as we can, not thinking about earnings. Then the site has something to offer buyers and they might be more attracted to them. We will then see earnings. Unfortunately, most microstock contributors don't think like that. This is nothing personal, I know my view is in the minority but I wish that wan't the case.
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....I remain sceptical. If you start soaring up the lists then I will probably sit up and take notice and start offering submissions (though you might not want me on your site) but until then it looks to me like a wasted effort.
That's the chicken and egg situation that new sites have to face. Buyers want a big collection and don't have much of a reason to move to a site that has less choice. We want sales but wont get them without buyers.
I think the best way to break this is for us to upload as much as we can, not thinking about earnings. Then the site has something to offer buyers and they might be more attracted to them. We will then see earnings. Unfortunately, most microstock contributors don't think like that. This is nothing personal, I know my view is in the minority but I wish that wan't the case.
Of course it's not personal, we're all trying to understand the market and the more serious opinions people present, the better.
One obstacle I see to your argument is that if we supply, say, 100 sites and they all succeed in attracting an even spread of customers, then we could end up having earned thousands and thousands of dollars without achieving a single payout.
After a year or two we might start getting payments but until then, we have to invest time and effort for no return. Inevitably, some sites will fail and we will lose money. With the industry "spend" spread so widely, no sites will have the income to mount strong advertising campaigns, so overall earnings will fall, and the funds for support staff, servers etc. will be hard to come by.
Eventually, someone will notice that these weak sites can be bought up cheaply and the background stuff can be merged, cutting staff and commissions, reducing management costs and allowing for more advertising that will generate higher revenues to allow other ailing sites to be bought out and closed (StockXpert) or run in parallel (BS).
And we end up back at the start again, with a bunch of new sites popping up and promising good times if only we will stick with them until the cash starts coming in.
Obviously, this is a somewhat exaggerated description of the process but I think the logic is good and fits with what we have seen happening in the real world.
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I think the best way to break this is for us to upload as much as we can, not thinking about earnings. Then the site has something to offer buyers and they might be more attracted to them.
Sure yeah!...YOU do that, and good luck with it... ::)
Edit: The Mother Teresa syndrome within me faded away once I got kick in the teeth several times by agencies with the likes of SF...I agree with Gunter, let me know when they start paying good money for accepted uploads and I'll start considering uploading there again.
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I think the best way to break this is for us to upload as much as we can, not thinking about earnings. Then the site has something to offer buyers and they might be more attracted to them.
Sure yeah!...YOU do that, and good luck with it... ::)
[/quote]
I did that. For two years I uploaded to StockFresh despite not seeing much in the way of returns. Now I've stopped. I won't remove what's there, but I won't submit any more until I see some sign that my time will be rewarded.
I'm not asking for much either. My threshold is $5 a month averaged over a year, which should be achievable by any site with reasonable traffic. Understand that I'll still take a chance on a new site, but my patience has limits.
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I'm the brilliant mind that suggested putting your money where your mouth is and you say you have, and have even designed the site yourself. Of course you have put SOME money into it, but you hold up the $1m-$3m for DP as an example of the heavy capital investment needed to boost a site ... yet I seem to recall that anecdotally you are meant to be a multi-millionaire from the sale of StockXpert. If so, why do you appear to find DP's investment impressive when you should be able to match that yourself? If you have and have not got results then I am sorry but that also fails to inspire confidence.
I never said DP's investment was "impressive" to me. It seems to be a reasonable amount for their size / purpose if you ask me, but it was merely an example to show how ironic it is that many photogs complain about "selling out" while obviously expecting companies to sell out so they can grow their customer base more aggressively which means a lot more $$$ to them. There are a lot of ironic things on this forum, for example it's also an interesting phenomenon to root against new players in the market (who try to work out a better deal for everyone) while complaining all the time that X agency lowered royalty rates again. It doesn't really matter though, it's just an observation. :)
As for finances, I'd like to respectfully point your attention to the fact that this forum is not a shareholder meeting and the company is not publicly traded. I'm happy to read feedback and answer questions, but I'm not going to talk about my personal finances or discuss how much we've invested in the company, how and when we're using that money and what our exact future plans are, even if that makes you skeptical. We are doing our best to grow the site by using our funds wisely and we're happy with the results we have achieved so far. Of course there's still a long road ahead of us, but the notion that it doesn't make sense to exist just because some other companies seem to grow faster is just ridiculous to me. You never know what goes on behind the scenes and how it will all play out in the end. You can waste a lot of money in a very short period if you don't do things right.
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I'm the brilliant mind that suggested putting your money where your mouth is and you say you have, and have even designed the site yourself. Of course you have put SOME money into it, but you hold up the $1m-$3m for DP as an example of the heavy capital investment needed to boost a site ... yet I seem to recall that anecdotally you are meant to be a multi-millionaire from the sale of StockXpert. If so, why do you appear to find DP's investment impressive when you should be able to match that yourself? If you have and have not got results then I am sorry but that also fails to inspire confidence.
I never said DP's investment was "impressive" to me. It seems to be a reasonable amount for their size / purpose if you ask me, but it was merely an example to show how ironic it is that many photogs complain about "selling out" while obviously expecting companies to sell out so they can grow their customer base more aggressively which means a lot more $$$ to them. There are a lot of ironic things on this forum, for example it's also an interesting phenomenon to root against new players in the market (who try to work out a better deal for everyone) while complaining all the time that X agency lowered royalty rates again. It doesn't really matter though, it's just an observation. :)
As for finances, I'd like to respectfully point your attention to the fact that this forum is not a shareholder meeting and the company is not publicly traded. I'm happy to read feedback and answer questions, but I'm not going to talk about my personal finances or discuss how much we've invested in the company, how and when we're using that money and what our exact future plans are, even if that makes you skeptical. We are doing our best to grow the site by using our funds wisely and we're happy with the results we have achieved so far. Of course there's still a long road ahead of us, but the notion that it doesn't make sense to exist just because some other companies seem to grow faster is just ridiculous to me. You never know what goes on behind the scenes and how it will all play out in the end. You can waste a lot of money in a very short period if you don't do things right.
I'm not trying to draw out any company or personal secrets, I was remarking on how things appear to one observer from the outside... i.e. me. You obviously know your business best and if you are meeting your goals, that's fine. I certainly never said that it "doesn't make sense for you to exist", I actually pointed out in an earlier post that Scanstock seems to be a nice little outfit for the couple of guys running it though it doesn't do much for the contributors providing the stock. One man's feast can be another man's famine.
Maybe you do have a subtle strategy that will make your contributors a fortune some time in the future. However, as a successful businessman I suppose you would agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to commit myself to a strategy on the basis of being told "it will be great, trust me, but everything is secret and the apparent inertia is all part of a hidden master plan".
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All this negative - pseudopragmatic - s**t is typicall for this forum. Someone starts a thread to support a good company and to help the situation of all contributors and gets so attacked that he finally closes his account.
Whats the problem with you guys? SF is a good company, they are self-sustainable and even if I just earn 50$ a month now, uploading costs nothing! All this -Iwannabeabusinessman- talk and -Ionlyuploadtocompanieswhichgivemeimmediateprofitbutcomplainlaterwhentheybehavelikecompanies - is total nonsense to me.
You guys really have a problem and deserve to get bled out by guys like istock.
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All this negative - pseudopragmatic - s**t is typicall for this forum. Someone starts a thread to support a good company and to help the situation of all contributors and gets so attacked that he finally closes his account.
Whats the problem with you guys? SF is a good company, they are self-sustainable and even if I just earn 50$ a month now, uploading costs nothing! All this -Iwannabeabusinessman- talk and -Ionlyuploadtocompanieswhichgivemeimmediateprofitbutcomplainlaterwhentheybehavelikecompanies - is total nonsense to me.
You guys really have a problem and deserve to get bled out by guys like istock.
I really don't know who you're talking to here. You appear to be painting with a broad brush.
There have been a lot of opinions expressed in this thread, by a lot of different people - some more supportive of SF and the OP, and some more skeptical. All, or nearly all, have been expressed rationally.
Now you come in and indite the entire forum in one sweeping condemnation. Exaggerate much?
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All this negative - pseudopragmatic - s**t is typicall for this forum. Someone starts a thread to support a good company and to help the situation of all contributors and gets so attacked that he finally closes his account.
Whats the problem with you guys? SF is a good company, they are self-sustainable and even if I just earn 50$ a month now, uploading costs nothing! All this -Iwannabeabusinessman- talk and -Ionlyuploadtocompanieswhichgivemeimmediateprofitbutcomplainlaterwhentheybehavelikecompanies - is total nonsense to me.
You guys really have a problem and deserve to get bled out by guys like istock.
Blimey now you are really putting all of us in the same melting pot. I havent read all posts but I dont think anybody has clobbered the OP. However, I give you this, when somebody writes or mention something on the positive side ( for a change), yes, the Lobo hammer comes down very quickly, its almost as if people want negativities and mayhem.
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All this negative - pseudopragmatic - s**t is typicall for this forum. Someone starts a thread to support a good company and to help the situation of all contributors and gets so attacked that he finally closes his account.
Whats the problem with you guys? SF is a good company, they are self-sustainable and even if I just earn 50$ a month now, uploading costs nothing! All this -Iwannabeabusinessman- talk and -Ionlyuploadtocompanieswhichgivemeimmediateprofitbutcomplainlaterwhentheybehavelikecompanies - is total nonsense to me.
You guys really have a problem and deserve to get bled out by guys like istock.
You said a mouth full there buddy!...the beauty of life is that we all have our own individual way of thinking...even you!...so, if I ever need help in changing mine, I'll make sure to let you know, until then take your rants elsewhere and stop trying to convince and persuade other people to think like you.
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All this negative - pseudopragmatic - s**t is typicall for this forum. Someone starts a thread to support a good company and to help the situation of all contributors and gets so attacked that he finally closes his account.
Whats the problem with you guys? SF is a good company, they are self-sustainable and even if I just earn 50$ a month now, uploading costs nothing! All this -Iwannabeabusinessman- talk and -Ionlyuploadtocompanieswhichgivemeimmediateprofitbutcomplainlaterwhentheybehavelikecompanies - is total nonsense to me.
You guys really have a problem and deserve to get bled out by guys like istock.
My frustation was not towards everybody. I ment those who constantly attack those with ideas to improve the situation or who think who know everything better without haviong own solutions. Certainly I was not reffering to people like you Lisa.
I really don't know who you're talking to here. You appear to be painting with a broad brush.
There have been a lot of opinions expressed in this thread, by a lot of different people - some more supportive of SF and the OP, and some more skeptical. All, or nearly all, have been expressed rationally.
Now you come in and indite the entire forum in one sweeping condemnation. Exaggerate much?
My frustation was not towards everybody. I ment those who constantly attack those with ideas to improve the situation or who think they know everything better without haviong own solutions. Certainly I was not reffering to people like you Lisa.
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My frustation was not towards everybody. I ment those who constantly attack those with ideas to improve the situation or who think they know everything better without haviong own solutions.
Thanks for the clarification. I agree it is difficult at this point to drum up support for new ideas.
Stockfresh definitely is not the problem in this industry. But they may not be the solution either.
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Thanks for the clarification. I agree it is difficult at this point to drum up support for new ideas.
Stockfresh definitely is not the problem in this industry. But they may not be the solution either.
That's pretty much how I feel.
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....I remain sceptical. If you start soaring up the lists then I will probably sit up and take notice and start offering submissions (though you might not want me on your site) but until then it looks to me like a wasted effort.
That's the chicken and egg situation that new sites have to face. Buyers want a big collection and don't have much of a reason to move to a site that has less choice. We want sales but wont get them without buyers.
I think the best way to break this is for us to upload as much as we can, not thinking about earnings. Then the site has something to offer buyers and they might be more attracted to them. We will then see earnings. Unfortunately, most microstock contributors don't think like that. This is nothing personal, I know my view is in the minority but I wish that wan't the case.
Of course it's not personal, we're all trying to understand the market and the more serious opinions people present, the better.
One obstacle I see to your argument is that if we supply, say, 100 sites and they all succeed in attracting an even spread of customers, then we could end up having earned thousands and thousands of dollars without achieving a single payout.
After a year or two we might start getting payments but until then, we have to invest time and effort for no return. Inevitably, some sites will fail and we will lose money. With the industry "spend" spread so widely, no sites will have the income to mount strong advertising campaigns, so overall earnings will fall, and the funds for support staff, servers etc. will be hard to come by.
Eventually, someone will notice that these weak sites can be bought up cheaply and the background stuff can be merged, cutting staff and commissions, reducing management costs and allowing for more advertising that will generate higher revenues to allow other ailing sites to be bought out and closed (StockXpert) or run in parallel (BS).
And we end up back at the start again, with a bunch of new sites popping up and promising good times if only we will stick with them until the cash starts coming in.
Obviously, this is a somewhat exaggerated description of the process but I think the logic is good and fits with what we have seen happening in the real world.
I agree there's no point in backing every site that comes along but sites like Stockfresh and Graphic Leftovers aren't like all the others. They have a great design, easy to use sites, good prices for buyers and are easy to upload to. Their owners have often listened to our suggestions and made positive changes. The list of sites like that is very small and I wish we could all back them 100% instead of wasting so much time complaining about the sites that have so many problems for buyers and contributors.
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OK. I see that Peter gives good trustworthy replies. I like that.
I like that he is actually speaking here.
I was the guy that was left hanging with an applicance for a year.
I sent a sitemail and was heard.
So now I am in and can upload.
I have a zero zero account, thats new.
FTP, I have to find out what that is...
point is and I have some questions to Peter...
we get a 50% share? right? and can you guarantee that, and for how long?
Sales are low as they always are with new low performing agencies.
So... should I upload my best selling images, my whole port or should I test the waters with a mix of best sellers and average, so I can see how the site performs?
I hope for, and will support an alternative to the greedy companies out there.
I sense that you might be an alternative.
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All this negative - pseudopragmatic - s**t is typicall for this forum. Someone starts a thread to support a good company and to help the situation of all contributors and gets so attacked that he finally closes his account.
Whats the problem with you guys? SF is a good company, they are self-sustainable and even if I just earn 50$ a month now, uploading costs nothing! All this -Iwannabeabusinessman- talk and -Ionlyuploadtocompanieswhichgivemeimmediateprofitbutcomplainlaterwhentheybehavelikecompanies - is total nonsense to me.
You guys really have a problem and deserve to get bled out by guys like istock.
Oh, well, lets have a look at what you are saying.
You claim that supporting SF and trying to push buyers away from other sites to SF will "help the situation of all contributors". Tell us how hit will help iStock exclusives, or anybody who doesn't have their portfolio at iS, please, because I can't understand that.
You say SF is a good company - define good. In my book, a good company is one that is delivering results as well as one espousing noble intentions. And, yes, I do accept it takes time to produce results and maybe they will eventually.
What does "self-sustainable" mean?
I haven't uploaded anything so I don't know their system. Don't you have to do anything with the keywording/categories? If you do, that is costing time, if not then that is a very strong point in favour of them .... heck, if all I have to do is set up an FTP link and shove a couple of thousand files across then I might change my mind about not submitting.
Finally, I don't see why you get uptight over people presenting diverse arguments about things. If you want people to come round the Helix's point of view then you need to explain why you think so, not just launch ad hominem rants which achieve nothing at all.
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I haven't uploaded anything so I don't know their system. Don't you have to do anything with the keywording/categories? If you do, that is costing time, if not then that is a very strong point in favour of them .... heck, if all I have to do is set up an FTP link and shove a couple of thousand files across then I might change my mind about not submitting.
Nope. No categories to assign or anything to do with keywords, etc. if they are already in your IPTC. If you don't have models then no releases to worry about. Just FTP, press one button to transfer the images from FTP, and then move on with your day :)
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I haven't uploaded anything so I don't know their system. Don't you have to do anything with the keywording/categories? If you do, that is costing time, if not then that is a very strong point in favour of them .... heck, if all I have to do is set up an FTP link and shove a couple of thousand files across then I might change my mind about not submitting.
Nope. No categories to assign or anything to do with keywords, etc. if they are already in your IPTC. If you don't have models then no releases to worry about. Just FTP, press one button to transfer the images from FTP, and then move on with your day :)
I think there is a 50 image a day limit, so you can FTP a heap, and then you just have to remember to hit some button every day to move the next 50 over. If you have no releases that is all you have to do, If you have releases then you need to deal w/ that. It is pretty quick and easy though.
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Is it still possible to join StockFresh? All I get is a "Your application is waiting to be reviewed" - that has been the position for more than 8 months!
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Is it still possible to join StockFresh? All I get is a "Your application is waiting to be reviewed" - that has been the position for more than 8 months!
Yes, still possible. Drop them a line and they`ll approve your account, it looks like sometimes the application system is stuck.
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Is it still possible to join StockFresh? All I get is a "Your application is waiting to be reviewed" - that has been the position for more than 8 months!
Yes, still possible. Drop them a line and they`ll approve your account, it looks like sometimes the application system is stuck.
Same here, applied a while back, took too long, weeks, months, told them to cancel my application, case closed.
Now, what is stockfresh again?
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Peter! why just FTP and browser uploading system? dont know how many times I have mailed SF, telling them that this FTP, simply doesnt work here for me. Your browser uploading accepts 3 shots, thats it, no more AND you cant even see the thumbnails.
Whats wrong with Java, Flash, etc, etc, etc?
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Peter! why just FTP and browser uploading system? dont know how many times I have mailed SF, telling them that this FTP, simply doesnt work here for me. Your browser uploading accepts 3 shots, thats it, no more AND you cant even see the thumbnails.
Whats wrong with Java, Flash, etc, etc, etc?
Strange, usually I am the one with FTP problems, but never had one with SF ???
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I put most of my recent work in a flickr account, watermarked of course, and in the description I link to the corresponding image page at SF.
I found out Its against Flickr TOS, they will cancel your account if they cop on, just as FYI.
I tried the other day to add a stock link to my portfolio and got flagged for spamming
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I tried the other day to add a stock link to my portfolio and got flagged for spamming
Because of that, I link my Flickr images to a blog page ( could be a website ), and from there I can link to any agency.
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I tried the other day to add a stock link to my portfolio and got flagged for spamming
Because of that, I link my Flickr images to a blog page ( could be a website ), and from there I can link to any agency.
or maybe the "buyer" take if from Flickr ;D
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I tried the other day to add a stock link to my portfolio and got flagged for spamming
Because of that, I link my Flickr images to a blog page ( could be a website ), and from there I can link to any agency.
or maybe the "buyer" take if from Flickr ;D
Yes, but actually abusers can take them from anywhere, with or without watermark. Waiting for someone serious that understand how things works regarding image use... for that reason i will let always a link to any agency ;D
BTW, is quite normal to find some sites "hot-linked" to Flickr images...
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So are you now accepting new contributors?
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So are you now accepting new contributors?
have they ever stopped? ::) ::)
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Stock who? Nothing fresh about them, more like stale. I have my port there but waiting for that inevitable email that says thank you for supporting us but........we tried.
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They told me theyd stopped perhaps they didn't like my stuff
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They told me theyd stopped perhaps they didn't like my stuff
They told you they stopped what?
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They told me theyd stopped perhaps they didn't like my stuff - sorry accepting new contributors
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Stock who? Nothing fresh about them, more like stale. I have my port there but waiting for that inevitable email that says thank you for supporting us but........we tried.
I make some money with them and I'm not a big earner, compared to lots of contributors. They told us that they intended to do this differently, not spending lots of money. Considering that, I think they might be doing much better than we think. Having said that, I thought Lucky Oliver were doing well and was shocked when they sent the "thank you for supporting us but.." email :)
Perhaps the biggest problems for SF are overcoming contributor negativity and convincing buyers to switch from sites that are no longer really microstock. Contributors are extremely impatient, buyers seem to stubbornly stick to sites they're used to and are unwilling to give new sites a chance. Those that are moving mostly seem to be going to SS. I hope SF can keep going and somehow overcome these huge obstacles.
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Stock who? Nothing fresh about them, more like stale. I have my port there but waiting for that inevitable email that says thank you for supporting us but........we tried.
I make some money with them and I'm not a big earner, compared to lots of contributors. They told us that they intended to do this differently, not spending lots of money. Considering that, I think they might be doing much better than we think. Having said that, I thought Lucky Oliver were doing well and was shocked when they sent the "thank you for supporting us but.." email :)
Perhaps the biggest problems for SF are overcoming contributor negativity and convincing buyers to switch from sites that are no longer really microstock. Contributors are extremely impatient, buyers seem to stubbornly stick to sites they're used to and are unwilling to give new sites a chance. Those that are moving mostly seem to be going to SS. I hope SF can keep going and somehow overcome these huge obstacles.
I don't think that many contributors ever go in and then say, "now all I have to do it wait five to ten years and then all should be well." The issue isn't negativity, really. It's responding to a failed attempt in the face of all the uploading one does for $7 a month. At this point I'm not uploading there anymore. But I really wish Peter all the best and hope he can turn things around. The key is customers. The key to customers is differentiation. SF is more of the same (as are others to be fair) and it's exceedingly difficult to compete as a new entrant in a mature market.
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I would have gladly supported StockFresh. However I applied to them in October of 2010, and they neither accepted nor rejected me. They never replied at all. It's been so long that I don't even remember what my login information was. I can't see why I would want to try again, and wait another 2 years for a decision, when I can join someone like GL, PD, or DP and start uploading almost immediately.
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I continue to support SF, and still upload to them. The upload process is so easy. But not sure for how much longer.
Sales were never great, but the past couple of months they are actually dwindling away. June 2012 I made $8.10 with them, and a year ago I made $15.40. That's with roughly 7k images. It is by far the lowest return of the 15 sites I contribute to. Even low earners like Crestock and GL each brought in 4x that amount.
Hope things turn around, but they are moving from slow to dead IMO.
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I just started uploading some more images to SF because I have had some sales, but only about halfway to payout. I am hoping that increasing my port size (I have only had about a quarter of my port uploaded) will get me to at least one payout. But after reading your post, lisafx, I may be doomed. If you can't get sales with 7k images, I don't see how I will. But I will give it a try, just in case. Strange things happen on microstock sites.
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I pulled the plug on my Stockfresh account last month. I just didn't see the point. Not just because of low sales, but I just didn't see much of a future with it. Best case scenario was that it would have become the next 123RF (a good selling site that undercuts on price and doesn't pay much per sale). I don't really need another 123RF. In fact, I could probably use one less 123RF. ;)
A lot of people are complaining that it didn't have sales and wasn't Stockxpert. I would argue that it was probably too much like Stockxpert, and I think that is what the problem is. StockXpert was a great agency in 2008 and 2009, but the micros have evolved a lot since then (for better and worse). Contributors and buyers have certain expectations. I think Stockfresh had the opportunity to really make something better than the other agencies, but instead they just made a copy of an old mediocre agency with very little new appeal. Hopefully, that isn't too mean, but I just see lost opportunity when I see some new agencies.
Not to pick on just Stockfresh because I could level the same complaints at Veer, Photodune and many other newer sites.
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I think you are right. For one thing, prices have risen significantly and they are still trying to sell at 2007 prices. Studies show that undercutting on price makes customers think your product is inferior. It's not a winning strategy.
As my Calc II professor used to say in college, "Say what you mean, and mean what you say." If your product is the cream of the crop in terms of quality, then price it accordingly. Don't claim that you are Vetta and SnapVillage at the same time.
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I pulled the plug on my Stockfresh account last month. I just didn't see the point. Not just because of low sales, but I just didn't see much of a future with it. Best case scenario was that it would have become the next 123RF (a good selling site that undercuts on price and doesn't pay much per sale). I don't really need another 123RF. In fact, I could probably use one less 123RF. ;)
A lot of people are complaining that it didn't have sales and wasn't Stockxpert. I would argue that it was probably too much like Stockxpert, and I think that is what the problem is. StockXpert was a great agency in 2008 and 2009, but the micros have evolved a lot since then (for better and worse). Contributors and buyers have certain expectations. I think Stockfresh had the opportunity to really make something better than the other agencies, but instead they just made a copy of an old mediocre agency with very little new appeal. Hopefully, that isn't too mean, but I just see lost opportunity when I see some new agencies.
Not to pick on just Stockfresh because I could level the same complaints at Veer, Photodune and many other newer sites.
I agree with you totally in that it isn't just a Stockfresh thing, it is the same across most new sites. There isn't anything different about them...just more 30 cent subs competing for the same size pie.
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Not to pick on just Stockfresh because I could level the same complaints at Veer, Photodune and many other newer sites.
The difference being that Veer and Photodune both produce sales.
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Not to pick on just Stockfresh because I could level the same complaints at Veer, Photodune and many other newer sites.
The difference being that Veer and Photodune both produce sales.
I was going to question your assertion regarding Veer, Lisa. Then I looked at my results over the last year. PhotoDune is 11.8% of my total. Veer trails way behind at 2.2%. But StockFresh? .2%! Even SignElements outperforms StockFresh by a significant margin. Of course, those are my results; your mileage may vary.
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Not to pick on just Stockfresh because I could level the same complaints at Veer, Photodune and many other newer sites.
The difference being that Veer and Photodune both produce sales.
Stockfresh and Veer?
An odd comparison considering Veer is my number three earner and Stockfresh has yet to produce a payout.
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I like stockfresh.
They pay 50% comission.
I get 5$ for a vector-download.
I also got 50$ for an EL (also 50%)
For me they sell good.
I had some payouts in the past.
I started there with a small and average portfolio (160 illustrations) 1,5 years ago.
This is ok for me.
:)
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I'm happy with Veer too. 6% of earnings over the last 12 months, and a pleasing RPD. I haven't tried Photodune yet. It would take a lot of convincing to get me to add another microstock site.
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I'm happy with Veer too. 6% of earnings over the last 12 months, and a pleasing RPD. I haven't tried Photodune yet. It would take a lot of convincing to get me to add another microstock site.
Dont! just another low key site, pretending. Thats it.
Veer, is great! good site.
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Veer doesn't work for me this year. DLS and RPD down.
And Photodune isn't the right site for vectors (for me too cheap in the moment)...
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R.I.P Stock fresh for you have gone stale ;D...
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I'm happy with Veer too. 6% of earnings over the last 12 months, and a pleasing RPD. I haven't tried Photodune yet. It would take a lot of convincing to get me to add another microstock site.
Dont! just another low key site, pretending. Thats it.
Veer, is great! good site.
Appreciate it Christian. As always, your straight shooting is most helpful.
I wish I could have given you a real alternative with Warmpicture. I did my best, but in the end it was a Fail on my part.
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I wish I could have given you a real alternative with Warmpicture. I did my best, but in the end it was a Fail on my part.
You did do your best, and you put a lot of time and $$ into it. I don't see it as your fail. First of all, you're battling corporations with gazillions of $$ behind them in the SEO department. The K-Tools fail sounds like it really put the final nail in the coffin. I'm truly sorry it didn't work out for all of us, especially you.
edit: I am assuming you are saying it's over. I respect whatever decision you make. Hopefully there is some way to bounce back?
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I wish I could have given you a real alternative with Warmpicture. I did my best, but in the end it was a Fail on my part.
You did do your best, and you put a lot of time and $$ into it. I don't see it as your fail. First of all, you're battling corporations with gazillions of $$ behind them in the SEO department. The K-Tools fail sounds like it really put the final nail in the coffin. I'm truly sorry it didn't work out for all of us, especially you.
edit: I am assuming you are saying it's over. I respect whatever decision you make. Hopefully there is some way to bounce back?
I agree with Jo Ann - this is definitely not a FAIL on your part!
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I wish I could have given you a real alternative with Warmpicture. I did my best, but in the end it was a Fail on my part.
You did do your best, and you put a lot of time and $$ into it. I don't see it as your fail. First of all, you're battling corporations with gazillions of $$ behind them in the SEO department. The K-Tools fail sounds like it really put the final nail in the coffin. I'm truly sorry it didn't work out for all of us, especially you.
edit: I am assuming you are saying it's over. I respect whatever decision you make. Hopefully there is some way to bounce back?
I agree with Jo Ann - this is definitely not a FAIL on your part!
+2. It's admirable how much work you have put in Dan. My hat's off to you. While the rest of us just continue to complain about the direction of microstock, you took it upon yourself to DO something about it.
I'm very sad if it's come to an end, but it may have been too quixotic a thing to undertake.
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+3 you have my respect!
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I agree with Jo Ann - this is definitely not a FAIL on your part!
Cathy. :)
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I wish I could have given you a real alternative with Warmpicture. I did my best, but in the end it was a Fail on my part.
You did do your best, and you put a lot of time and $$ into it. I don't see it as your fail. First of all, you're battling corporations with gazillions of $$ behind them in the SEO department. The K-Tools fail sounds like it really put the final nail in the coffin. I'm truly sorry it didn't work out for all of us, especially you.
edit: I am assuming you are saying it's over. I respect whatever decision you make. Hopefully there is some way to bounce back?
I agree with Jo Ann - this is definitely not a FAIL on your part!
+2. It's admirable how much work you have put in Dan. My hat's off to you. While the rest of us just continue to complain about the direction of microstock, you took it upon yourself to DO something about it.
I'm very sad if it's come to an end, but it may have been too quixotic a thing to undertake.
Great use of quixotic...!
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I agree with Jo Ann - this is definitely not a FAIL on your part!
Cathy. :)
dang it!! 1,000 apologies.. I knew it was you.. just reading too many posts at once with too many tabs open!
so I agree with CATHY!! :)
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I agree with Jo Ann - this is definitely not a FAIL on your part!
Cathy. :)
dang it!! 1,000 apologies.. I knew it was you.. just reading too many posts at once with too many tabs open!
so I agree with CATHY!! :)
:D
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I appreciate it everyone! And it is always fun to hijack a Stockfresh thread 8)
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I appreciate it everyone! And it is always fun to hijack a Stockfresh thread 8)
Unless it costs you a ton to run, I'd say keep with it. If it does cost you a ton to run, then try to cut costs. Like Peter said earlier in this thread or some other, it takes time to build up a site. Google definitely gives love to older sites, so just existing is a form of SEO.
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I'm happy with Veer too. 6% of earnings over the last 12 months, and a pleasing RPD. I haven't tried Photodune yet. It would take a lot of convincing to get me to add another microstock site.
Dont! just another low key site, pretending. Thats it.
Veer, is great! good site.
Appreciate it Christian. As always, your straight shooting is most helpful.
I wish I could have given you a real alternative with Warmpicture. I did my best, but in the end it was a Fail on my part.
Dont worry Dan, at least you did what many just babble about! you tried and tried well. Its a daunting task trying to run just about anything in this rat-race.
I bet you, in fact I know that before end of this year, micro will change drastically.
all the best Dan! :)
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+3 you have my respect!
+4 - and my apologies, I should have put the time in to support you, Sorry.
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I congratulate Dan on giving it a good go and I'm sorry if it's not worked out.
I think the only way for us to run our own site that could challenge the big 4 would be if most of the top 100 contributors got together and raised funds with a big backer. It doesn't look like a possibility because the top contributors are too busy making money to really care about the future.
The rest of us don't have much of a chance. I still hope there will be a new site that comes up with a cheaper more efficient way for us to sell to buyers in the future.
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Well, call me confused over the unofficial announcement of the demise and condolences about Warmpicture.com. Why is it buried in this thread?
It's still live. I still contribute. It's all very confusing.
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Well, call me confused over the unofficial announcement of the demise and condolences about Warmpicture.com. Why is it buried in this thread?
It's still live. I still contribute. It's all very confusing.
So what's the story? Fill us in, so we can use it as an learning experience.
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I agree with Jo Ann - this is definitely not a FAIL on your part!
Cathy. :)
dang it!! 1,000 apologies.. I knew it was you.. just reading too many posts at once with too many tabs open!
so I agree with CATHY!! :)
But I agree with Cathy too, so either way you were right :)
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Well, call me confused over the unofficial announcement of the demise and condolences about Warmpicture.com. Why is it buried in this thread?
It's still live. I still contribute. It's all very confusing.
Everything is discussed here http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/warmpicture/ (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/warmpicture/)
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Well, call me confused over the unofficial announcement of the demise and condolences about Warmpicture.com. Why is it buried in this thread?
It's still live. I still contribute. It's all very confusing.
Everything is discussed here [url]http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/warmpicture/[/url] ([url]http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/warmpicture/[/url])
i believe that is a members only group. I'd say the conversation could probably be moved here:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/k-tools-hosting/msg262743/?topicseen#new (http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/k-tools-hosting/msg262743/?topicseen#new)
but basically the hosting service had some major downtime over the weekend which killed the site ranking on google.
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I've never see a spell of downtime affect a ranking long term - should just be a blip.
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I've never see a spell of downtime affect a ranking long term - should just be a blip.
I was down for the same amount of time and that was my feeling about it. My bigger fear was having a return customer not be able to access the site and maybe lose them to another site.
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Well, call me confused over the unofficial announcement of the demise and condolences about Warmpicture.com. Why is it buried in this thread?
It's still live. I still contribute. It's all very confusing.
So what's the story? Fill us in, so we can use it as an learning experience.
The moral of the story is: in a business where quantity superseeds quality, where its thirteen to a dozen and where buyers are happy with bread and butter, the wise will withdraw, review the situation and then yet again, rise. :)
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FWIW we are still up and running. I want to see what happens to our Google search position over the next month. In the meantime am testing some theories on pricing, since really there is nothing to lose.
So the doors remain open to WP. I don't know that I can rebuild what we lost, but hopefully the server penalty is temporary.
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FWIW we are still up and running. I want to see what happens to our Google search position over the next month. In the meantime am testing some theories on pricing, since really there is nothing to lose.
So the doors remain open to WP. I don't know that I can rebuild what we lost, but hopefully the server penalty is temporary.
Yay! :) (bolded)That seems like a good thing to do. Maybe the hit won't be as bad as you thought.
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FWIW we are still up and running. I want to see what happens to our Google search position over the next month. In the meantime am testing some theories on pricing, since really there is nothing to lose.
So the doors remain open to WP. I don't know that I can rebuild what we lost, but hopefully the server penalty is temporary.
Yay! :) (bolded)That seems like a good thing to do. Maybe the hit won't be as bad as you thought.
Might be good to open a thread specifically for the WarmPictures subject. It is hidden and confusing here.
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Sorry about the off topic, guys...