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Author Topic: Symbiostock search engine symbiostock.info  (Read 11647 times)

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« on: June 15, 2013, 09:33 »
+7
First stable version (I hope so) is running here:

http://symbiostock.info

Every hour  if takes next site from the list, updated its images info, then searches for its network friends, and adds them to the list, if any new were found. If your site is running version 2.4.1 or earlier, there is a bug in theme code: images file can have only 24 images info (after daily update). To resolve this, you should update theme to current version, then wait for automatic daily update, or go to admin area, check "Update image info CSV" and Save. Then wait few hours, images should be found and indexed.

Now search works in this way:

"hot dog" will show only images having hot dog as single keyword.

hot dog will show images with hot dog as single keyword, then images with hot and dog as separate keywords.

There is no bread -> gingerbread, women->woman and similar yet.

Results from different sites are mixed randomly (every time images are refreshed, they get new random values, so order will change from time to time).

All images are displayed directly from your sites, when you click on them, you go to image page.

You can also add symbiostock.info as network site (needs 2.4.3 theme).


Please, report any problems, image missing, and search suggestions :)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 09:43 by ajt »


« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2013, 10:21 »
0
That IS looking good, nice work

« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2013, 17:29 »
0
Wow

The images display in a single column for me.  Is that normal?

« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2013, 19:53 »
0
I get multiple pages of randomized images, as it's supposed to - keyword 'peru'

« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 02:37 »
0
The images display in a single column for me.  Is that normal?

What browser are you using?
Someone else with this issue?

« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 08:16 »
0
The images display in a single column for me.  Is that normal?

What browser are you using?
Someone else with this issue?

Chrome.... and after restarting Chrome for another issue all is good.... nice to know it was a problem at my end.

« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 12:49 »
0
I did a search of pomegranate, of which I have several shots with that keyword, and mine don't show up.  :(

« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 12:55 »
0
I did a search of pomegranate, of which I have several shots with that keyword, and mine don't show up.  :(

You have Symbio 2.4.1 with bug - only 24 images are in info csv file. Upgrade to current version, then wait for automatic daily update (or faster: go to Network, check "update public image info" and save).

« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2013, 13:09 »
0
I did a search of pomegranate, of which I have several shots with that keyword, and mine don't show up.  :(

You have Symbio 2.4.1 with bug - only 24 images are in info csv file. Upgrade to current version, then wait for automatic daily update (or faster: go to Network, check "update public image info" and save).

OK did that...still nothing.

edit: never mind, they just showed up. Thanks ajt!

« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2013, 13:12 »
0
I updated it manually, automatic update takes only one site per hour.

« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2013, 13:17 »
0
I updated it manually, automatic update takes only one site per hour.

Thanks, that's awesome!

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2013, 13:19 »
0
Loving the search engine ....

Two things ....

You should rip the minipics to be referenced locally. I think this should be a standard allowance for projects like this. Or maybe an option.

Give search field a classy modern look...

« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2013, 13:44 »
0
You should rip the minipics to be referenced locally. I think this should be a standard allowance for projects like this. Or maybe an option.
You mean I should grab all thumbs and store them on my server? I'll think about it :)
Quote
Give search field a classy modern look...

I'll try. Soon there will be "advanced search" too.

« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2013, 14:22 »
+3
You two guys are simply great! To me this looks like the start of the first fair AND competitive agency ever! Now we just need a common shopping basket/checkout and there is serious trouble for other agencies! :-)

« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2013, 15:02 »
0
You two guys are simply great! To me this looks like the start of the first fair AND competitive agency ever! Now we just need a common shopping basket/checkout and there is serious trouble for other agencies! :-)

I agree 100% on all accounts. This is the best thing since sliced bread microstock has been invented.

Networking/Search is getting better with every update and upcoming hub site. Image buyers will be delighted.

The only major issue left that will cause image buyers to look somewhere else is the individual registration/cart/checkout for every single SY site.

« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2013, 15:43 »
0
My site isn't on the list running on 2.4.4

Also none of my images are searchable

Can anyone help?

« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2013, 16:13 »
0
My site isn't on the list running on 2.4.4

Also none of my images are searchable

Can anyone help?

Done :)

« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2013, 18:24 »
0
[
The only major issue left that will cause image buyers to look somewhere else is the individual registration/cart/checkout for every single SY site.

And we know this how?

I agree that this MAY be an issue but until we start getting buyers we won't know for sure.

Are our buyers going to be people who want 1's or 2's of images or 10's and 20's

I suspect the former, since the big purchasers will want the discounts offered by the big stores, but I don't know.

We have built it, but we still don't know who, if or when they will come.

If we have a common check out then we need common pricing and common agreements and then people in charge and ....

« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2013, 23:32 »
0
[
The only major issue left that will cause image buyers to look somewhere else is the individual registration/cart/checkout for every single SY site.

And we know this how?

I agree that this MAY be an issue but until we start getting buyers we won't know for sure.

Are our buyers going to be people who want 1's or 2's of images or 10's and 20's

I suspect the former, since the big purchasers will want the discounts offered by the big stores, but I don't know.

We have built it, but we still don't know who, if or when they will come.

If we have a common check out then we need common pricing and common agreements and then people in charge and ....

You're right. We can't know. I was guessing. If I was an image buyer wanting to buy more than just 1 image this would put me off for sure.

I don't see any reason why a common check out would require common pricing and/or common agreements (although this could be a plus for some buyers as well). Not sure if a common check out couldn't be implemented without anyone in charge. So, don't get me wrong here, I am all for the decentralized nature of SY and want to keep it. There might be still ways of ironing out some of the disadvantages this concept has for image buyers. Just like the Symbiostock search engine symbiostock.info (which we actually should discuss here) tries to offer a different/better way of searching the network for images.

Sorry for being so off-topic. We should start a separate threat to discuss common check out...

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2013, 00:06 »
0
Its not entirely off topic. What you have here is Symbiostock's first few search engines sprouting. Now your wondering if you can make things easier for the customer. This is hardly a difficult problem. Networking tons of sites over low cost hosting is a hard problem ----- thats been solved. Setting up a centrally honored payment system is not hard. The question is who can stand for it?

As you might know I'm done working for free now as I hope everyone involved is - so if we want to focus on those things I'll make a thread.


jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2013, 01:45 »
-1
I would prefer if there was also check box to run searching by count of downloads.
+ Count of downloads shown under preview images.

So it will be easy to see how sales are going in Symbiostock network.

« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2013, 15:50 »
0
I would prefer if there was also check box to run searching by count of downloads.
+ Count of downloads shown under preview images.

Good idea :)

But now only few improvements:
- site names have clickable numbers of indexed images,
- you can enter into search box site address and your name.

« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2013, 16:13 »
0
I would prefer if there was also check box to run searching by count of downloads.
+ Count of downloads shown under preview images.

So it will be easy to see how sales are going in Symbiostock network.

Maybe for us to see in the back end as totals, but not for clients , let them pick the best for them not just the most popular as many seem to do elsewhere

« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2013, 16:25 »
0
That search engine is looking very good! What's your logic for best match?

« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2013, 16:39 »
0
That search engine is looking very good! What's your logic for best match?

Now it is simple. When you enter phrase having two or more words, first go images with that phrase as single keyword or title, then images with all words as separate keywords. Images are sorted randomly to avoid grouping results from one site (random numbers are generated when images are indexed or updated in database). And images with huge number of keywords are pushed down.

« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2013, 16:59 »
0
That search engine is looking very good! What's your logic for best match?

Now it is simple. When you enter phrase having two or more words, first go images with that phrase as single keyword or title, then images with all words as separate keywords. Images are sorted randomly to avoid grouping results from one site (random numbers are generated when images are indexed or updated in database). And images with huge number of keywords are pushed down.

OK, I wondered why we were almost invisible on a search for 'New Zealand'! We've split that phrase to work in the site search. On the other hand, thpstockphotos has dozens in your search but only five in the same search on his own site. Looks like we'll need to have both.

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2013, 17:24 »
0
I'm really happy about this effort AJT. Keep it up!

« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2013, 17:26 »
0
That search engine is looking very good! What's your logic for best match?

Now it is simple. When you enter phrase having two or more words, first go images with that phrase as single keyword or title, then images with all words as separate keywords. Images are sorted randomly to avoid grouping results from one site (random numbers are generated when images are indexed or updated in database). And images with huge number of keywords are pushed down.

OK, I wondered why we were almost invisible on a search for 'New Zealand'! We've split that phrase to work in the site search. On the other hand, thpstockphotos has dozens in your search but only five in the same search on his own site. Looks like we'll need to have both.

Good to know!  One of my top selling images would typically be searched by a phrase so I've included variations on separate words and phrases.

travelwitness

« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2013, 18:35 »
0
Surprising how you can throw quite a few search queries at it and get some decent results back from a relatively small network.
Just goes to show what's possible, nice work :-)

« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2013, 18:39 »
0
Thanks so much for doing this, ajt. I tried a couple of searches and its looking good!

« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2013, 19:24 »
0
Surprising how you can throw quite a few search queries at it and get some decent results back from a relatively small network.
Just goes to show what's possible, nice work :-)

Yes, I noticed the same thing with a bunch of test searches. Amazing! - Awesome job ajt!!!  :D

« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2013, 19:26 »
0
I've added some more general keyword searches at http://cascoly.com/symbio/symbiostock-network.asp

You can now get a list of all your keywords, by frequency or alphabetically.  Handy for catching spelling errors

I've also added a weighted frequency - this adjusts the frequency count based on your total number of images.  when used in a search, it will give priority to higher values -- thus someone with 10 instances of keyword X and 100 images will rank higher than someone with 30 instances of keyword X and 1000 images


for more details than is healthy -- http://cascoly.com/symbiostock-related-search.asp

« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2013, 19:57 »
0
You have done a lot of work, Steve! I can see a lot more images coming up when I click on the food category. It could be just Friday peak internet traffic, but it took forever to load one site, then hung up on the next site. I had to cancel just to get out of the window. I will try again later or early tomorrow and see if it's just network traffic causing a slowdown right now.

« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2013, 20:03 »
0
You have done a lot of work, Steve! I can see a lot more images coming up when I click on the food category. It could be just Friday peak internet traffic, but it took forever to load one site, then hung up on the next site. I had to cancel just to get out of the window. I will try again later or early tomorrow and see if it's just network traffic causing a slowdown right now.


i'd guess it's your server -- when I run it, the results come up right away

http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ 
is a handy tool to see what your actual internet speed is

« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2013, 15:52 »
+4
Images in korgh.com forced me to add rating to symbiostock.info :)
Now default rating is Yellow (I called it Moderate). So in basic search only green, yellow and unrated images are shown. If you have unrated images, which should be classified as yellow or red, please update them.

Some of you have strawberry in network, now red images won't go to your sites.

I also added advanced search. There may be bugs, so please report any weird results.
You can now search by site address or artist name, select exclusive images, orientation and rating.

travelwitness

« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2013, 18:49 »
0
Looking good, filters work well, orientation works - nice job.

Does it push rated images within a portfolio to the front?

« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2013, 01:49 »
0
Does it push rated images within a portfolio to the front?

No, they are only filtered, but this is good idea - it should encourage people to rate images :)

« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2013, 05:13 »
+1
Great work @ajt,

yet I wouldn't create too much 'encouraging' or 'rating' depend features, because it will start to "penalize" the content, create a place for some tricks or 'secreat knowledge' like in other microstock sites, like use 2 or 3 categories on DT or specific keywords amout makes your image go down etc... I hate it;) and it's funny

In my opinion the search engine should use only the [pure base features] from the [basic symbiostock site installation] in the front.

A good place to put all those fancy filters is in the advanced options, sure you'll make it as you like

Also I'd move the "Search item" input in adv. search UP, my first reaction was to put the keyword in the first input, it's not user friendly this way


« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2013, 05:23 »
0
Works surprisingly well and pretty quickly too - I'm impressed.

Needs a graphic designer to redo the front page, but the function and content is coming along nicely.

Great work, congratulations to all involved, an inspiring project!

travelwitness

« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2013, 05:41 »
0
PLRANG - I disagree.

The search results are already democratic in that they spread search results across the contributors.
This could be improved though by putting your best foot forward.

If you search for 'Landscape' say, my images along with everyone's images are spread across the results - however it would be nice to be able to influence within those results with my best landscapes (work).

No harm in showcasing your best images - a kind of self curated search result.

AJT why not make it an option - Best Match - Newest - Contributor Curated?

Good looking / relevant search results = customers :-)

By the way AJT how exactly does the 'Best Match' work, is it a random selection from within the portfolio?

« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2013, 06:02 »
0
Sure it's ok to "putting your best foot forward" on your site @travelwitness,

unless the [search engine] will not try to penalize those unrated [or supplied by the basic Symbiostock site setup] results showing now.

Everyone should have the place guaranteed and then with this place to be able to show the BEST work. Otherwise we will end up like the microstock sites which first page results come from 3 contributors.

Anyway... good thing is anyone can create the search engine

travelwitness

« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2013, 06:23 »
0
I agree a spread of contributors results should remain - but within that spread the 'best images' from each contributor should be displayed if that makes sense.

For example if 'Landscape' is searched and 200 contributors have "Landscape" pictures the results could look like:

Contributor 1 Landscape pic (unrated), Contributor 2 Landscape pic (rated), Contributor 3 Landscape pic (rated), Contributor 4 Landscape pic (unrated)... etc

It would encourage the search results to look cleaner, if contributor 1 and 4 don't have their best 'Landscape' picture rated a poorer image may display, whereas contributor 3 & 4 have tagged their best image and the results are a better representation for their portfolio (and Symbiostock as a whole).

But yes absolutely you want to avoid a bunching of results from one contributor.

« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2013, 06:30 »
0

But yes absolutely you want to avoid a bunching of results from one contributor.

Unless you search for Dobermann  :)

travelwitness

« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2013, 06:31 »
0

But yes absolutely you want to avoid a bunching of results from one contributor.

Unless you search for Dobermann  :)

Looks like you have that market cornered :-)

« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2013, 08:30 »
0

And images with huge number of keywords are pushed down.


What is a huge number?   I try and put between 20 - 40 keywords in ( depending on the image).  Too many?  Not enough?


Ron

« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2013, 12:15 »
0
Look, I have split up all my keyword phrases so I have a huge amount of spam and a lot of keywords. I had to do that because of the choice I had to make because my images werent found at all.

 I am waiting for the search functionallity to be fixed so it finds keyword phrases. Then I need to either restore all my keywords as is and lose all newly added keywords, or dont backup and delete all split keyword phrases. I am now stuck between a pile of work and a pile of more work.

I actually regret splitting my phrases. Catch 22 as a lot of images dont show up now. Plus I am being punished for having too many keywords and spam.  :(

« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2013, 14:20 »
0
In my opinion the search engine should use only the [pure base features] from the [basic symbiostock site installation] in the front.

A good place to put all those fancy filters is in the advanced options, sure you'll make it as you like

Also I'd move the "Search item" input in adv. search UP, my first reaction was to put the keyword in the first input, it's not user friendly this way

Front search will stay as is, only with "best match" and "newest first" choice, but in future, for example, I should do something with sites with unrated images, especially, when should be marked as "red". Maybe exlude such site from search results, but this is topic for separate thread, I think.

« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2013, 14:23 »
0
In my opinion the search engine should use only the [pure base features] from the [basic symbiostock site installation] in the front.

A good place to put all those fancy filters is in the advanced options, sure you'll make it as you like

Also I'd move the "Search item" input in adv. search UP, my first reaction was to put the keyword in the first input, it's not user friendly this way

Front search will stay as is, only with "best match" and "newest first" choice, but in future, for example, I should do something with sites with unrated images, especially, when should be marked as "red". Maybe exlude such site from search results, but this is topic for separate thread, I think.

can you explain the algorithm behind best match? cheers

« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2013, 14:42 »
+1
I wrote about it in one of previous posts:

"Now it is simple. When you enter phrase having two or more words, first go images with that phrase as single keyword or title, then images with all words as separate keywords. Images are sorted randomly to avoid grouping results from one site (random numbers are generated when images are indexed or updated in database). And images with huge number of keywords are pushed down."


Ron

« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2013, 14:48 »
+1
" And images with huge number of keywords are pushed down."

Why is that, I have images with 60 keywords and that is without spam? And what is huge? 50 or 100?

« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2013, 15:07 »
0
There is no number for "huge". Try to search for something with many results: "woman", "landscape". Statistically, in first pages you will find more images with less number of keywords, than in last pages. When image is added to database (or updated from time ti time), it gets new random number, for example in range from 1 to 1000*keywords_count. So image with 20 keywords will have random number from 1 to 20000, image with 80 keywords will have from 1 to 80000. Images are displayed in this order, so first image will have bigger probability to go up. And this is only first, very simple algorithm. Next should be more complicated, but always someone will complain :(

« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2013, 15:12 »
0
What do you classify as huge number of keybwords

Ron

« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2013, 15:18 »
0
I am not complaining, just wondering why its working like that. It just means that conceptual images, which normally have more keywords, are pushed down for no apparent reason.


« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2013, 15:23 »
0
But, how I should determine, that one image is more conceptual than other, and should be upper in results?

Ron

« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2013, 15:53 »
0
You cant, but they are pushed down regardless. But its ok, I am not too concerned, someone's image has to be last anyway, they cant all be no 1  ;) . When I have cleaned up my keywords they all should be around 50 give or take a few.

« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2013, 18:53 »
0
I wrote about it in one of previous posts:

"Now it is simple. When you enter phrase having two or more words, first go images with that phrase as single keyword or title, then images with all words as separate keywords. Images are sorted randomly to avoid grouping results from one site (random numbers are generated when images are indexed or updated in database). And images with huge number of keywords are pushed down."


that really only is valid if all images are keyworded under the same rules -- some people always use 2 word keywords, some never do, some who do, also include the separate words, etc.

another approach is weighting --http://cascoly.com/symbio/list.asp?list=401
  is a list of the most popular keywords.  but I also assigned a weight which factors in # of sites that use the word and how many images those sites have.  done this way, words like 'white' or 'woman' have more weight than words like 'background' or 'adult'

I posted much earlier showing how weighting can find more relevant results, and I've been playing around with that for searches but don't have anything ready yet

« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2013, 11:18 »
+2
Try new search options - empty space and main color:

http://www.symbiostock.info/adv.php/

If you are using Firefox, here is search Add-On, by Claudio Divizia (http://stockphotoeurope.com/):

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/symbiostock/



« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2013, 16:43 »
0
color search is cool

« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2013, 22:41 »
0
color search is cool

+1 - very fun!

« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2013, 23:11 »
0
Amazing! Symbiostock gets better by the day.  :) 8)

jsfoto

  • flashstockphoto.com
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2013, 05:26 »
0
Try new search options - empty space and main color:

http://www.symbiostock.info/adv.php/

If you are using Firefox, here is search Add-On, by Claudio Divizia (http://stockphotoeurope.com/):

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/symbiostock/


I love both, the new options and the firefox add-on. Very well done  :) Thanks!

« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2013, 06:00 »
0
The Firefox add on is great - I tried to create an account to review it but firefox has not yet send me my registration

It would be even better if it referred to something like "stock images" rather than "royalty free pictures" - as mine and I believe a lot of others, are not being licensed as royalty free

stockphotoeurope

« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2013, 03:28 »
0
The Firefox add on is great - I tried to create an account to review it but firefox has not yet send me my registration

It would be even better if it referred to something like "stock images" rather than "royalty free pictures" - as mine and I believe a lot of others, are not being licensed as royalty free

Thank you Christine, I'm glad you liked the add-on. And thanks to Ajt for adding a link from the symbiostock.info page.

I now changed the description as you suggested ("stock" instead of "royalty-free").

(Try looking in the spam folder for the firefox reply).
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 04:59 by stockphotoeurope »

« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2013, 04:08 »
0
It obviously did not like the address I used (which was correct) I tried another one and that worked so I have added a review - another way of quietly advertising the symbiostock network :D

« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2013, 11:16 »
0
For those of you that have downloaded and tried this plug in - don't forget to review it - and use the opportunity to advertise the Symbiostock network at the same time :)

« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2013, 12:31 »
0
Excellent!  Being able to search for copy space and color is very useful!

« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2013, 05:35 »
0
Thanks so much for your great tool. I have just put a link to the search page on my site.
http://innerstock.com/


 

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