Author Topic: Is this project dead? (Read 43077 times)

stocked · « **Reply #25 on:** August 12, 2014, 14:11 »

double post

cascoly · « **Reply #26 on:** August 12, 2014, 14:21 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on August 12, 2014, 04:14

....... This * Free culture is really the root of all evils in my opinion and i would be more than happy living without linux, lamp, android, and the whole cr-ap, give me IIS, Visual Studio, ASP.net, WinMobile, IOS, no problem, but nooo ... people want free or nothing and they want the sourced code too, all served on a golden platter, then they will rant about the lack of documentation and multi language, and the list is endless.

I started in shareware in the mid 80s in the days of BBS systems, and there was always a divide over whether and how much to limit the demo version -- some programs lent themselves to it (serialized fps & rpgs like duke nukem, et al), while others meant that the program really would be crippled (editors, etc). relying on the 'honesty' of users to pay for it if they liked it was rarely a successful strategy

the 'free' software movement is slightly different in that most of the successful products were created by people with another source of funding (universities & other grants, tech companies that could then sell extra services, etc) applying these same expectations to the arts hurt because few artists have any type of support other than their work.

ppdd · « **Reply #27 on:** August 12, 2014, 14:53 »

Quote from: cascoly on August 12, 2014, 14:21

Quote from: Hobostocker on August 12, 2014, 04:14

....... This * Free culture is really the root of all evils in my opinion and i would be more than happy living without linux, lamp, android, and the whole cr-ap, give me IIS, Visual Studio, ASP.net, WinMobile, IOS, no problem, but nooo ... people want free or nothing and they want the sourced code too, all served on a golden platter, then they will rant about the lack of documentation and multi language, and the list is endless.

I started in shareware in the mid 80s in the days of BBS systems, and there was always a divide over whether and how much to limit the demo version -- some programs lent themselves to it (serialized fps & rpgs like duke nukem, et al), while others meant that the program really would be crippled (editors, etc). relying on the 'honesty' of users to pay for it if they liked it was rarely a successful strategy

the 'free' software movement is slightly different in that most of the successful products were created by people with another source of funding (universities & other grants, tech companies that could then sell extra services, etc) applying these same expectations to the arts hurt because few artists have any type of support other than their work.

I do find it ironic that the same people who lose their mind at the thought of giving away their photos often are the same people who expect free software to power their business.

Leo · « **Reply #28 on:** August 12, 2014, 15:40 »

Quote from: JPSDK on August 12, 2014, 09:02

I wont comment now, because I said it all already long time ago.

Only one thing: Leo, do not blame yourself, you were carried away like any dedicated young man should be, and you learned a valuable lesson: you can not build a skyscraper in a swamp, but you need to dig the foundation deep into the bedrock.

I remember the things you said - although they weren't flattering they were valuable and I'm privileged you spoke up. I've recalled most of it in the last few months. Thanks for the kind words though at the end of the road - your the real deal.

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on August 12, 2014, 12:07

hi Leo,
i have never spoken 2 u before, but i have followed ur progress here on Tyler's forum .

Hi there! I think in the long run we'll all benefit. Most of us have a hard working spirit and thats really what pays off in the end.

Quote from: Waka Waka on August 12, 2014, 13:50

I see the project is dead, but the cult is still very much alive.

We just haven't mixed the coolaid yet!

If I had known this was Ron...! Whats the saying "it all comes out in the wash". I can say that you had received the majority of my free dedicated attention behind the scenes, so its not all bad. Thanks for your positive help and I understand you frustrations as well. Hopefully in the end your website is an asset for you.

Quote from: cascoly on August 12, 2014, 14:21

the 'free' software movement is slightly different in that most of the successful products were created by people with another source of funding (universities & other grants, tech companies that could then sell extra services, etc) applying these same expectations to the arts hurt because few artists have any type of support other than their work.

I love your insights as always. Looking back (as they say hindsite is 20-20) mixing microstock with open source is hardly a complete recipe for success. You were right in starting to host people at a modest rate. Making money on selling upgrades to open source product is completely based on expanse, which is hard to achieve in our current setting. You've been a real asset with your understanding and help.

Quote from: stocked on August 11, 2014, 03:10

The software is ready, great, free and works flawlessly...

I can't say how much I appreciate the encouragement you and like-minded people have given at hard times. Although I don't always respond, my wife and I really treasure helpful and positive people like you.

Valo · « **Reply #29 on:** August 12, 2014, 16:35 »

Things are heating up here.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #30 on:** August 12, 2014, 23:49 »

Quote from: cascoly on August 12, 2014, 14:21

the 'free' software movement is slightly different in that most of the successful products were created by people with another source of funding (universities & other grants, tech companies that could then sell extra services, etc) applying these same expectations to the arts hurt because few artists have any type of support other than their work.

i believe the golden days of open source are finally over.
there's too much money to be made on mobile apps and coders have definitely noticed the trend and are no more willing to give freebies away like in the past.

problem is, because of oversaturation it's very very hard to monetize mobile apps, no matter if paid or free or freemium with ads.

the volumes are huge but so is the number of apps and for android the situation is the worst.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #31 on:** August 13, 2014, 00:04 »

Quote from: ppdd on August 12, 2014, 14:53

I do find it ironic that the same people who lose their mind at the thought of giving away their photos often are the same people who expect free software to power their business.

freeware is one thing, open source is another thing.

even microsoft and adobe gave out many products for free, freeware has always been part of the ecosystem.

but open source is quite another story.
there's nothing wrong using free versions of PS Elements or trial/demo versions of Lightroom.
by opposite using open source photo apps you know from the start these apps can be unstable, can be buggy, can be abandoned overnight, you don't know what their roadmap will be, especially if the developers cannot make decent money with it.

so, we've many choices nowadays but if sh-it happens we can only blame ourselves.
besides this reasoning has no ground in photography as PS is a de facto monopoly and nobody is going back using The Gimp or Corel Draw just for the sake of using free software or cheap software alternatives.

too many developers think the real cost in on developing applications.
no, it's on maintaining and upgrading and supporting the applications, so many things can go wrong with different versions of the OS or the CMS or the server, it's a hell .. you will spend more time debugging and fixing small issues than writing from scratch the whole app !

and finally it's always all about the money.
why nobody is making Gimp a superior product on par with PS ?
because the money isn't there, there's no demand, there are no coders willing to waste months or years for a failed product.

developers are the life blood of open source, if they bail out it's game over, it becomes abandonware, academic projects.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #32 on:** August 13, 2014, 00:10 »

Quote from: Leo on August 12, 2014, 05:32

LOL Hobostocker. I think we could summarize all the volumes of Symbiostock aggravation into your three posts. Good job.

well, if i go back to coding it will be only for C# paid desktop apps, the more i hear people talking about mobile and cloud the more i'm convinced desktop (windows/OSX) is here to stay for professional users, we'll see ..

Hobostocker · « **Reply #33 on:** August 13, 2014, 00:17 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on August 12, 2014, 12:07

as a teenager
we were paid 300 bucks for a gig at pub-night 2 nights a week = 100 bucks per person as a power-trio.
last time i spoke to today's musicians , they told me they get paid for a case of beer.
one bottle per person for a 6 piece band. 2 for my power-trio if we were young today.

yes and yes !
and if they're lucky they'll get a burger with fries or a slice of pizza.

but you know what, they deserve it because teenage live bands are dime a dozen nowadays so it's just a matter of supply and demand, they can't blame the greedy bar owners ... if they don't like a case of beer and a slice of cold pizza they will be replaced by a drunk teenage DJ pressing play on Ableton or Traktor and case closed ... the music business has really reached the rock bottom and frankly speaking i'm laughing about the dreadful situation i see around, we all knew that Digital would have killed the music industry and now we reached the end of the road.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #34 on:** August 13, 2014, 00:26 »

Quote from: cthoman on August 12, 2014, 11:33

I'd say nearly free is probably more dangerous. I'm always amazed when someone scoffs at paying $20 for an illustration. I always think to myself what do you think it should cost? Or how much do you think my time should be worth and how much is your time worth?

customers just seek the best deals, they don't care about our production costs or the sustainability of our biz.

as a money conscious buyer i always seek the cheapest and best price/quality ratio too, i wouldn't be a good buyer if i didn't.

so, yes, people selling too cheap are ultimately shooting themselves in the foot as far as i'm concerned but it must be said i probably belong to a small minority of buyers, in pretty much any industry i noticed that price is not THE single ultimate winning factor.

Pablox · « **Reply #35 on:** August 13, 2014, 10:58 »

Well i don't know about you guys..
But I am happy with my site, a lot of work has gone into it and I am still uploading content everyday and promoting it with my clients. It is not consistent on sales but once in a while i get happily surprised by the extra income that helps me a lot!

Anyway thx to Leo and the rest of the team that helped us get our own sites... if not for them i would have never been able to build it on my own.

Leo If I ever meet you Ill invite you a beer!

daveh900 · « **Reply #36 on:** August 13, 2014, 12:08 »

I have been out of the loop on all of the crazy SymbioDrama since last fall. I took a new job that took most of my time over the winter and I just didn't have the time to keep up.

I have still been uploading my work here and there and continue to get regular sales.

I can't thank Leo enough for developing SymbioStock. I hope the development continues.

marthamarks · « **Reply #37 on:** August 13, 2014, 13:59 »

I'm another one who's proud of my site and happy to have had the opportunity to build it. Also very appreciative of Leo's efforts and the support of the entire SYS community.

Waka Waka · « **Reply #38 on:** August 16, 2014, 17:48 »

I am not sure how this discussion is about free loaders and not being with happy with the site

I like my site, its working fine, sold an EL just last week
I never asked or expected anything to be free, the only thing that needs to be free is updates. I refuse to pay a monthly description to get updates. So did many others, and the project was cancelled, the forum was closed, and all 155 users were left in the dark.

I paid more than most people I think.

You sent a payment of $7.50 USD to Jester Arts Illustration
You sent a payment of $30.00 USD to Symbiostock
You sent a payment of $15.00 USD to Symbiostock
You sent a payment of $75.00 USD to Symbiostock
This email confirms that you have donated $25.00 USD to Symbiostock

This is the last thing I will say about this. I am upset the plug got pulled, and I wont let the cult gag me. Never have, you should know that by now. No criticism is allowed, not even when it is valid criticism backed up with facts.

The FACT that TWO blog postings have been posted lashing out to the members of Symbiostock speak volumes.

I am happy with my site, and I am still grateful that Leo made that happen. No doubt about that.

chromaco · « **Reply #39 on:** August 16, 2014, 18:38 »

Leo has confirmed that he is still working on the VAT plugin. He has also committed to keeping the existing sites functional for upcoming WP updates. I am certain that this will happen because I have very much to lose if my sites go down so I will personally make sure that they continue to work. Leo has built a number of custom plugins for my site (which I paid for) and he has not completely disappeared. Also his site is built on this platform and I know for certain that he gets enough sales that he will not abandon them completely.

Everyone with a current site can relax about the future of your sites. They will continue to work at least the way they do now. Honestly every time I login to one of my symbio-sites I am amazed at what they are capable of.
They read IPTC, have hover previews, get great SEO and work with many, many plugins.

My symbio sites have features that my custom built site doesn't because I couldn't afford the coding on my custom site. The upload is better and so is the customization. This theme is actually remarkable when you consider how it was built and how long it took.

Ron, you can relax about the VAT, it's coming… I don't know when but I do know that as burnt out as Leo is he still feels an obligation to the 170+ site owners. He just wanted to try and make a living off of this and it appears like that may never happen which has been very frustrating. Many of the people who he mentioned in his blog posts weren't even site owners or were people who gave up on their sites before they had the chance to mature or bring in sales. There was no single person or people that caused his dismay but rather an overall apathy or feeling which caused this project to stall.

This project isn't dead… its just not growing. That is OK because my sites are successful and I don't really want them to change all that much. I realize not everyone feels the same as I do about Symbiostock which is fine because there are other self hosting options which people may also want to explore. Find what works for you but don't give up on self hosting because that is one of the few areas that we as contributors can still control.

Photominer · « **Reply #40 on:** August 16, 2014, 18:52 »

Quote from: chromaco on August 16, 2014, 18:38

This project isn't dead… its just not growing. That is OK because my sites are successful and I don't really want them to change all that much. I realize not everyone feels the same as I do about Symbiostock which is fine because there are other self hosting options which people may also want to explore. Find what works for you but don't give up on self hosting because that is one of the few areas that we as contributors can still control.

Nicely put. I never really got into the whole group networking side of this project, but the actual site software is awesome. For something that cost me nothing but time, it's miles above all the other shopping cart systems I've tried over the years (that also didn't cost anything).

*edit, if liking the software means I'm in a cult, someone forgot to send me a t-shirt!

Shelma1 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 17, 2014, 08:37 »

Quote from: chromaco on August 16, 2014, 18:38

There was no single person or people that caused his dismay but rather an overall apathy or feeling which caused this project to stall.

That's not really true...he's singled out and quoted a few specific people he took issue with (me included). Also, Leo has been saying for well over a year that he was done with Symbiostock and was leaving it up to others to take over, which never really happened. So there were a variety of reasons the project stalled.

http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock/open-source-what-it-means-for-symbiostock/

cathyslife · « **Reply #42 on:** August 17, 2014, 10:10 »

Does the phrase "beat a dead horse" mean anything?

Shelma1 · « **Reply #43 on:** August 17, 2014, 10:28 »

Quote from: cathyslife on August 17, 2014, 10:10

Does the phrase "beat a dead horse" mean anything?

Oh, the irony...

cathyslife · « **Reply #44 on:** August 17, 2014, 11:05 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on August 17, 2014, 10:28

Quote from: cathyslife on August 17, 2014, 10:10
Does the phrase "beat a dead horse" mean anything?

Oh, the irony...

Here come the minuses! She has called in the cult troop!

cidepix · « **Reply #45 on:** August 17, 2014, 11:16 »

it is very far from dead for me..

but I won't bother writing a long post because I am done trying to convert nonbelievers..

marthamarks · « **Reply #46 on:** August 17, 2014, 11:53 »

Quote from: cathyslife on August 17, 2014, 11:05

Here come the minuses! She has called in the cult troop!

Cathy, maybe it's time to realize that you were a big part of the problem. End of story.

cathyslife · « **Reply #47 on:** August 17, 2014, 13:27 »

Quote from: marthamarks on August 17, 2014, 11:53

Quote from: cathyslife on August 17, 2014, 11:05
Here come the minuses! She has called in the cult troop!

Cathy, maybe it's time to realize that you were a big part of the problem. End of story.

Not end of story.

Really? So a developer of software that is of benefit to hundreds of people, and is making money for himself and hundreds of people, decides to quit, and you are blaming that on me? You are too much. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Which proves my point even more that the concept of SY clearly doesn't work. If all of you SYers were making all kinds of money from sales and the networking, and Leo was making all kinds of sales (even though he is reaping the benefit anyway, along with a few others, of the massive google juice), why would anything that I said (you know, me being a stupid, loudmouth woman who doesn't know what she is talking about) discourage that? You must not be a very good business person if you think one person's opinion would deter a project that was successful and making money. You need to dump that glass of koolaid and take a closer look at the facts.

But I hope it made you feel better to put the blame on me, rather than where it should be.

Beat...dead horse...as long as you guys keep beating, so will I, shelma1.

JPSDK · « **Reply #48 on:** August 18, 2014, 00:26 »

Quote from: marthamarks on August 17, 2014, 11:53

Quote from: cathyslife on August 17, 2014, 11:05
Here come the minuses! She has called in the cult troop!

Cathy, maybe it's time to realize that you were a big part of the problem. End of story.

Why was cathy a big part of the problem?
and btw.. Which problem?

cathyslife · « **Reply #49 on:** August 18, 2014, 07:29 »

Quote from: JPSDK on August 18, 2014, 00:26

Quote from: marthamarks on August 17, 2014, 11:53
Quote from: cathyslife on August 17, 2014, 11:05
Here come the minuses! She has called in the cult troop!

Cathy, maybe it's time to realize that you were a big part of the problem. End of story.

Why was cathy a big part of the problem?
and btw.. Which problem?

It's easier to blame me than to face facts and take personal responsibility. But those are good questions. I would like to know exactly what I have to do with a developer constantly deciding he wants to abandon a project, especially if said project is successful (even BEFORE I decided that the networking part of the software doesn't work). I can believe that it took a lot of time away from family. I can believe it didn't make enough money. I can believe that things change so much in the website building area that it is a hassle to try to keep up with the code changes. I can believe that the software didn't produce the intended results for every member of the network. I can see lots of reasons for a developer giving up, but my big mouth certainly isn't one of them.

Rather than have an intelligent discussion here on why I am now being blamed for the demise of SY, it's much easier to take a bullying mentality and come here in full force and mark my posts with minuses.

If the networking works, and all of those involved are happy with their sites, then what difference does it make what my opinion is? I am certain that the people who read this forum arent always a bunch of sheep who just blindly follow what someone says. I am pretty sure they are like me...they use the power of the internet to read all opinions and then decide. So if things arent going the way some expected with SY, perhaps it's because the research showed it wasn't a good choice?

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Author Topic: Is this project dead? (Read 43077 times)

stocked

cascoly

ppdd

Leo

Valo

Hobostocker

Hobostocker

Hobostocker

Hobostocker

Hobostocker

Pablox

daveh900

marthamarks

Waka Waka

chromaco

Photominer

Shelma1

cathyslife

Shelma1

cathyslife

cidepix

marthamarks

cathyslife

JPSDK

cathyslife

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