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Author Topic: Yay Distribution Deal With Alamy  (Read 16658 times)

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« on: September 05, 2012, 14:23 »
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Just got a note about this.


ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 14:24 »
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tab62

« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 14:27 »
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here is the note-Hi, how are you? I hope everything is going well, and that you had a great summer!

We just wanted to let you know that we have signed a distribution deal with Alamy this summer. It will be active within short time, so if you dont want to be represented at Alamy, or with other partners, please go to this link: http://yaymicro.com/api-details.action and uncheck the corresponding box(es).

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 14:37 »
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If you opt out of Alamy, does that prevent you from opting in to other distribution deals? If so, that might h*ck off some Yay contributors who already contribute the same images to Alamy (shades of Veer), but might want to opt in to others.

(I'm not a member there, so can't find out via the link)

tab62

« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 14:42 »
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Just checked it is a single check box for each distribution company - here is info on alamy

Alamy
Webpage: alamy.com
Country: International
Commission to photographer: 50%
Commission Yay get from distributor: 60%

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 14:45 »
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Just checked it is a single check box for each distribution company - here is info on alamy

Alamy
Webpage: alamy.com
Country: International
Commission to photographer: 50%
Commission Yay get from distributor: 60%

Thanks for checking.
There shouldn't be a duplication issue, then.

Paulo M. F. Pires

  • "No Gods No Masters"
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 14:47 »
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Smell like.. hmmm. "creatives images".

Will keep it "off" until further explanation about that particular partnership.

« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2012, 15:01 »
+1
Great news.  I already contribute to Alamy so I'll be opting out but for those who aren't on Alamy this is a great option.  The upload process to Alamy is a real pain so it's also nice for those who can't be bothered to do the work of uploading there.

Also, kudos to Yay for being so transparent with their partner programs, the commissions and being able to opt out on a per site basis.  Two thumbs up!

« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2012, 15:19 »
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linda is Linda Lgreid Johannessen

Try a search of that


Just to get informed.

The Norwegian tax department shares info.

« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2012, 15:34 »
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linda is Linda Lgreid Johannessen

Try a search of that


Just to get informed.

The Norwegian tax department shares info.


What are you saying?  Are you referring to her low income?
This site isn't here to discuss people's personal taxes so this may be removed but...  here's my take for now.
She's a partner in Yay (I assume owner) So she doesn't have to pay herself anything if she doesn't want to.  The money would just stay in the company.

Also, if you have a loan in Norway, the interest paid on the loan is subtracted from your income before it is pasted in that list, the same goes for a number of other deductions.  Here's a page explaining (you'll have to find google translate yourself)
http://www.dinside.no/880812/slik-tolker-du-skattelistene

« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2012, 15:37 »
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I can read and understand Norwegian.
I know the system there.

I just say...
research is good.

« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 17:08 »
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So if you sell an image through them at Alamy for 100$, does Alamy get 40, and you and Yay each get 30 or does Alamy get 40 and Yay 10 and you 50?

Much better than how Veer went about it anyway.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2012, 17:23 »
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Just checked it is a single check box for each distribution company - here is info on alamy

Alamy
Webpage: alamy.com
Country: International
Commission to photographer: 50%
Commission Yay get from distributor: 60%

Have they said anything about Alamy's distributors in certain countries, from which 'normal' Alamy contributors get 40%, Alamy get 40% and the other distributor gets 20%?
(Maybe Yay has opted out of Alamy's distribution scheme, so that wouldn't be an issue?)

« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2012, 19:40 »
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So if you sell an image through them at Alamy for 100$, does Alamy get 40, and you and Yay each get 30 or does Alamy get 40 and Yay 10 and you 50?

Much better than how Veer went about it anyway.

I think it's:
Alamy get's 40%, Yay get's 60%, that's $60 to Yay
Photographer get's 50% from Yay's commission. That's $30 to you, which is 30% less than if you are direct. You basically split your commission with Yay
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 19:47 by Gunter Nezhoda »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2012, 19:47 »
0
So if you sell an image through them at Alamy for 100$, does Alamy get 40, and you and Yay each get 30 or does Alamy get 40 and Yay 10 and you 50?

Much better than how Veer went about it anyway.

I think it's more like
Alamy get's 40%, Yay get's 60%, that's $60 to Yay
Photographer get's 50% from Yay's commission. That's $30 to you, which is 10% less than if you are direct.

By your arithmetic, it would be 50% less than if you were direct, when you would get $60. I don't know if that's how they're working it out, as the announcement was ambiguous, but it certainly would be one interpretation. That was the 40/30/30 scenario indicated by PancakeTom.

« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2012, 19:49 »
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So if you sell an image through them at Alamy for 100$, does Alamy get 40, and you and Yay each get 30 or does Alamy get 40 and Yay 10 and you 50?

Much better than how Veer went about it anyway.

I think it's more like
Alamy get's 40%, Yay get's 60%, that's $60 to Yay
Photographer get's 50% from Yay's commission. That's $30 to you, which is 10% less than if you are direct.

By your arithmetic, it would be 50% less than if you were direct, when you would get $60. I don't know if that's how they're working it out, as the announcement was ambiguous, but it certainly would be one interpretation. That was the 40/30/30 scenario indicated by PancakeTom.

You are correct, I edited, should be right now

« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2012, 19:53 »
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It won't let me edit, I just post it again, I think that's it:

I think it's:
Alamy get's 40%, Yay get's 60%, that's $60 to Yay
Photographer get's 50% from Yay's commission. That's $30 to you, which is 50% less than if you are direct. You basically split your commission with Yay.  :-\

« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2012, 22:34 »
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This is absurd.

You have your picture represented by an agency, who is reprecented by an agency.

It is a circus.
Or maybe it is not. Maybe I should make such an angency, and represend pictures and let others do the saleswork.

Guys and girls, cant you see how it all goes in circles and how we loose control.

I had about 200 pictures on yay, and had one sale, and again some of my best sellers had many views but no sales.
I have now deleted them.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 22:37 by JPSDK »

« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2012, 00:46 »
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It won't let me edit, I just post it again, I think that's it:

I think it's:
Alamy get's 40%, Yay get's 60%, that's $60 to Yay
Photographer get's 50% from Yay's commission. That's $30 to you, which is 50% less than if you are direct. You basically split your commission with Yay.  :-\

Yeah, that's correct.  Obviously it's much better to upload the photos yourself

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2012, 06:08 »
0
The upload process to Alamy is a real pain so it's also nice for those who can't be bothered to do the work of uploading there.
Agreed the process is a pain (but 50% of the fees to avoid it? No thanks!), but unless Yay has the same keyword/search system, there will be a lot of false searches returned, which is going to lower Yay's Alamy Rank, unless somehow part of the deal is to grant Yay a falsely high AR, which will just p*ss off buyers.

Poncke

« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 06:21 »
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This whole business is getting ridiculous  8)

Paulo M. F. Pires

  • "No Gods No Masters"
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2012, 08:57 »
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After YAY response, i'll give a try. I have 1080 files (YAY) vs 475 ( Alamy ). They will work to avoid duplicate files.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 09:07 by Paulo M. F. Pires »

« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 10:03 »
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This whole business is getting ridiculous  8)

i have to agree with this one.

why can an "AGENCY" do their own marketing?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2012, 10:05 »
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This whole business is getting ridiculous  8)

i have to agree with this one.

why can an "AGENCY" do their own marketing?

Because they can pick up 30% with almost no work?

« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2012, 10:09 »
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This whole business is getting ridiculous  8)

i have to agree with this one.

why can an "AGENCY" do their own marketing?

Because they can pick up 30% with almost no work?

again, it's indeed ridiculous if any togs allow this to happen by opt in. 

CD123

« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2012, 16:20 »
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Partnering/Redistribution deals are absurd and ridiculous? :o Leaf where do come by these clowns? They are really funny  ;D

fujiko

« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2012, 17:19 »
+1
Partnering/Redistribution deals are absurd and ridiculous? :o Leaf where do come by these clowns? They are really funny  ;D

Partnering/Redistribution deals are good when they resemble a tree in shape.
Partnering/Redistribution deals are absurd and ridiculous when they start to resemble a merry go round.
At this rate, someday the agencies will all be partners with each other, licensing content in an infinite loop with no contributors at all. It's a well known truth that contributors are only trouble for the agency with all the talk about fair royalties and such. It's also known that content appears on agencies' servers thank to the powers of the image fairy.

CD123

« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2012, 17:30 »
+1
Partnering/Redistribution deals are absurd and ridiculous? :o Leaf where do come by these clowns? They are really funny  ;D

Partnering/Redistribution deals are good when they resemble a tree in shape.
Partnering/Redistribution deals are absurd and ridiculous when they start to resemble a merry go round.
At this rate, someday the agencies will all be partners with each other, licensing content in an infinite loop with no contributors at all. It's a well known truth that contributors are only trouble for the agency with all the talk about fair royalties and such. It's also known that content appears on agencies' servers thank to the powers of the image fairy.

Both Yay and Alamy have direct contributors, so they do not only distribute other site's contributor's work. There is thus no merry go round here. So the business is not now suddenly "getting ridiculous". Yay did not invent partnering, they just do good logical business based on an age old business principle.

It "can" get ridiculous yes, but that discussion I think should be done in a more appropriate thread than one where it is neither applicable nor relevant. Perhaps you can call the thread "The fairy principle"  ;)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 17:33 by CD123 »

Poncke

« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2012, 17:36 »
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Nobody said suddenly... and business is not restricted to Yay and Alamy... and paying 50% of your commission to get your stuff uploaded to another site is ridiculous. Now look into my flower so I can squirt water in your face  :-* Or do you want to honk my nose?

CD123

« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2012, 17:48 »
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Oh' I'll rather let you go for that thing you guys do with the canon...  ;D
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 18:04 by CD123 »

« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2012, 03:12 »
+1
If you are unhappy with your 50% at YAY and the fact that you can opt out of every partnership they have on a per site basis you should really reconsider your involvement with Fotolia, 123RF, Shutterstock, Bigstock, Dreamstime, Panther, Veer etc.etc.  Here's the massive list of distribution.
http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/a-list-of-partner-programs/100/

Personally, I think distribution helps the agencies more than the photographer but this isn't isolated to YAY.  Like CD123 said, if you want to discuss partner programs in general, a new thread would be better. You guys are talking like YAY invented the idea and are giving the worst deal there is, when really, they have one of the better (and certainly most open) partnership deals there is.

fujiko

« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2012, 03:30 »
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Partnering/Redistribution deals are absurd and ridiculous? :o Leaf where do come by these clowns? They are really funny  ;D

Partnering/Redistribution deals are good when they resemble a tree in shape.
Partnering/Redistribution deals are absurd and ridiculous when they start to resemble a merry go round.
At this rate, someday the agencies will all be partners with each other, licensing content in an infinite loop with no contributors at all. It's a well known truth that contributors are only trouble for the agency with all the talk about fair royalties and such. It's also known that content appears on agencies' servers thank to the powers of the image fairy.

Both Yay and Alamy have direct contributors, so they do not only distribute other site's contributor's work. There is thus no merry go round here. So the business is not now suddenly "getting ridiculous". Yay did not invent partnering, they just do good logical business based on an age old business principle.

It "can" get ridiculous yes, but that discussion I think should be done in a more appropriate thread than one where it is neither applicable nor relevant. Perhaps you can call the thread "The fairy principle"  ;)

I was just answering your general question. And yes, it may deserve a new thread and as leaf says, yes, yay has one of the best deals (or the best of all). It's just that with every new partnership deal the whole picture is become more and more ridiculous.
Don't ask questions if you believe the answer should go to another thread. ;)

CD123

« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2012, 04:07 »
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Have to get better glasses, can not find the place where I asked if partnering is a good or bad idea? I was flabbergasted by the remarks already made (you might have noticed the words "absurd and ridiculous" which came from the previous posts) and put the question mark out of total amazement. The irrelevant remarks were already made.  ???
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 04:13 by CD123 »

fujiko

« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2012, 04:25 »
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Ok, then I was only answering your amazement with a "yes, they can be absurd and ridiculous".  ;)
I'm stopping here  :-X

CD123

« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2012, 04:26 »
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Ditto  ;)

« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2012, 03:32 »
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Leaf, you said you will opt-out on Yay for the Alamy sales, but I am asking myself: Why should you do that?

I suppose that it will make no difference for your port that is already on Alamy. What will be found on Alamy by Alamy buyers will sell direct via Alamy. (When this is not so, it will indeed be better to opt-out.)

Only gives more chances to sell your images on Yay, for they can now be found by Alamy buyers too. Although you got a lower percentage,you got more visibility and with every agency there seem to be  a different type of buyers, so perhaps this way images are sold that will have no or barely any sales at Alamy direct. Plus images that are in your port on Yay and not on Alamy, can be sold via Alamy too now.

Of course it is better to upload to Alamy direct and you have done that, but for example: Alamy doesnt allow uploading editorials that are sold elsewhere as RF and images that are not 24mb. Now they can be sold via Yay to Alamy buyers.

Or do I miss something or understand things wrong?

« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2012, 04:00 »
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I'm simply opting out because I want to upload to Alamy myself.  I realize that I don't have my Alamy port. totally up to date so I may be missing out on a few uploads but that's fine.  I'd rather have that than have some duplicate content if a mistake is make and risk lower commissions.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2012, 06:46 »
0

... Alamy doesnt allow uploading editorials that are sold elsewhere as RF and images that are not 24mb. Now they can be sold via Yay to Alamy buyers.

I hadn't thought of that, but it's a clear issue.
Anyone know how they will handle that?
For example, if they ever get round to it, iStock E+will allegedly be mirrored on Getty, but after an initial post that 'all' E+ files would be mirrored, they very quickly had to say that editorial images would not be mirrored.
Will all Yay photos that aren't opted out be ported?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 07:06 by ShadySue »

CD123

« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2012, 07:33 »
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Did they actually state that Alamy will reduce their standards or alter it to accept all material from Yay? Normally they will keep to their standards and just accept those images falling within those predefined standards. Think it will be a rather large step for Alamy to display any editorials on this basis on their site and lower their size standard (else they could just as well have  accepted them directly as well).
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 07:36 by CD123 »

« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2012, 03:43 »
+1
Yay do not normally include editorial images in their partner deals and I am presuming that this will be the same. Regarding quality control -under the ill fated Veer deal my entire (tiny) Veer port went to Alamy so I'm guessing all my Yay (non editorial) will be mirrored at Alamy, regardless of whether or not it would pass Alamy QC inspection. For me it's a win because I don't really have the time to upload my back catalogue of images directly and who knows if they would have all passed inspection? All credit to Yay for giving an individual opt out on different partner deals and for the advance notice. This deal will suit some and not others -but you can choose. Regards, David.

« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2012, 11:47 »
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Asking Alamy the following:

"A few days ago I got a message from microstock agency Yaymicro that they had signed a distribution deal with Alamy.
I have a portfolio there too.
Am I right that RF editorial images and images smaller then 24 mb that are on Yaymicro are excluded from sale at Alamy?"

I got this answer:

"We have no specific deals with this agency or any other agencies excluding RF editorial or images smaller than 24MB. However if images below 24Mb are uploaded through our normal route they will automatically be rejected. If the images fall under the reportage/archival/News category they can be uploaded via the reportage/news route.

We will also accept RF editorial images. Unfortunately we do not have a RF-Editorial licence type on Alamy. However RM images on Alamy restricted for editorial use only is essentially exactly the same licensing model as RF-Ed."

So if I understand the answer right, it seems to me that this types of images are included for sale at Alamy and it can be interesting to not opt-out for Alamy sales on Yaymicro when you have a portfolio with a lot of RFeditorials and/or smaller images.





« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2012, 02:52 »
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Thanks for posting that response Colette. So, if I'm understanding their answer correctly, you cannot upload directly to Alamy editorial images that are available at RF micro sites but where they do a partner deal with another agency the RF editorials are fine for inclusion (but will be sold under their RM license).
That still doesn't change what I previously posted -Yay themselves do not usually include editorial images in their partner deals (regardless of whether or not Alamy would be happy to take them). I guess Yay are the ones to answer that question, so maybe they'll jump in on this thread.
For clarity, I personally wish they would include editorial images in partner deals as they make up the majority of my portfolio there -and I have told them that.
Just to confuse things a bit more (not sure if everyone realises this) but Yay sell editorial images under a RM license anyway and not RF (or did last time I looked). Regards, David.

« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2012, 13:01 »
+1
And, sorry to burst anyones bubble here, editorial images at Yay will not be included in the distribution deal with Alamy.  Emailed Linda earlier and got confirmation on that. It's not ruled out for the future though, but it's not happening now. Still, I'll be interested to see if my non-editorials get any action at Alamy. I'm seeing this as an effort free trial to see what Alamy can do with my images. Regards, David.

« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2012, 12:04 »
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So Leaf has right and when having a port that is uploaded to Alamy direct it's better to opt-out.
Thanks for clearing this up!

« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2012, 08:11 »
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I've been following similar threads related to these issues in the past and it seems to be all repeating as usual. This is one of the reasons we started our own macrostock agency as one can't simply trust anymore on most players offering to sell your images. I hope we will make a difference, even if we only started this summer from scratch it's a longterm initiative.

There was a post in a thread on the Alamy forum also pointing to this specific thread where the discussion went about buyers buying for a high price images from Alamy and then later finding out the same image on a microstock for a couple of bucks or less. How would you feel as a buyer when you discover that microstock images are mixed with a collection like Alamy ? No disrespect here for the micro's, but at the longterm this will damage all of us as photographers and buyers, no matter what branch you supply to.

And a thank you for the MSG forum for allowing discussions and not censoring them like some other places where threads disappear overnight !






« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2012, 15:31 »
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For those crazy people who were unhappy about how Yay handled this third party deal, here's an example of how it's usually handled..
http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/which-miscrostock-site-is-also-called-'kalium'/
We don't know where the images are from, we don't know the commissions, we don't know what our % is and we don't know when or where the earnings are reported or if we can opt out.

Even if you don't like a certain third party deal with YAY you can just opt out.  Other sites should take a lesson from YAY on how to give us control over our own images and how to be transparent about where are images are sent and what our share is.

« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2012, 16:09 »
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We don't know where the images are from, we don't know the commissions, we don't know what our % is and we don't know when or where the earnings are reported or if we can opt out.


and again a FAIR agency ;D

http://www.fairstockphotoagency.com/

« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2012, 00:39 »
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This whole business is getting ridiculous  8)


Agree! its getting to the point of stupidity and Alamy is the biggest concocsion of ingredients of them all. Its easy for an agency to give what they call "fair" percentages and deals when they hardly sell anything themselves.
Then I rather support an agency giving "unfair deals" with lots of sales.


 

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