MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => 123RF => Topic started by: CD123 on December 05, 2012, 15:26
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2013 and its new commission structure is around the corner.
I had a 13% drop in sales over the past 5 months to the 5 months before and did not come close to the doubling of my income in 2012, as 123RF suggested might happen with their added effort. I did however kept my end up and grew my port by 60% during this year.
Will be nice to know how other contributors performed (irrespective if you think it is a raw deal or not - there is another thread for whimpering).
It will also be nice to hear from Alex from 123RF if they are happy with the progress they made in respect of increasing sales, to minimize the new structure impact (although I might not have experienced it in my port).
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My sales have been the same from the 2nd month I started. I basically went from 0 to 600 photos in 7 months. But all I got was +/- 25 sales a month. I stopped uploading to them because they treat contributors differently and because of the cut.
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2009 - 100 sales - 74.69$ (966 pictures)
2010 - 343 sales - 298.47$ (2471 pictures)
2011 - 1075 sales - 807.69$ (4074 pictures)
2012 - 1256 sales - 912.36$ (4716 pictures)
even if 2012 reaches 1k $ it will be just a 24% increase with a 16% portfolio increase
so far I am with 2398 credits, I will be down to 45% with no chance to get to 50% (over 4999 credits)
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Luis - where do you find your credit total to be used for the commission structure for 2013? I'm just less than $2K this year, and will end up just over that level. Is that the same as my credit count?
Steve
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2011: $1550
2012: ($1426 / 11 * 12) = $1555
Since the OP asked not to whimper in this thread, I won't comment my raw results:
IF (1555 >= 2*1550) THEN Doubling_income=True ELSE Doubling_income=False
PS: Is there a way to see how many credits we earned?
[except summing (number of sales for each size) * (number of credits), which I am too lazy to do, especially since I have a feeling that I'll end up at 45%]
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Luis - where do you find your credit total to be used for the commission structure for 2013? I'm just less than $2K this year, and will end up just over that level. Is that the same as my credit count?
Steve
you might keep the 50%, I have made it myself, there is a calculator but I don't think it is working properly (http://davidgilder.com/misc/123RF_credit_calculator.html (http://davidgilder.com/misc/123RF_credit_calculator.html)) it is right actually!
Based on published future credit levels:
Sub:1, S:1, M:2, L:3, XL:4, XXLMH:5, XXLTF:10, EPS:10, PEL:50, EEL:75, CEL:100, MS:25, 100MB:20, 200MB:40, 300MB:60
Published future royalty rates: <249:30%, <999:35%, <1999:40%, <4999:45%, <19999:50%, <49999:52%, <99999:54%, <499999:56%, <999999:58%
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Ahh - pretty complex! I ended up with 2881 credits for 2012 to date. So I'm at 45%
Steve
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Ahh - pretty complex! I ended up with 2881 credits for 2012 to date. So I'm at 45%
Steve
really? you must have a lot subs and small downloads
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I'm keeping 50%. Sales have actually been quite good for me on 123 for the past 6 months or so. One of the few sites showing significant growth for me.
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Current just more than 1800 images with 1578 credits to date ($592). Thought I might make the 45% cutoff by end of year, but with my sales actually declining over the past 5 months I am certain of 40% (thus 20% drop in commission) :'(
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I am over 5k credits so I will be at 50% as well. That calculator is a pain in the Rumpelstiltskin.
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Removed...
Broke my own request and started whimpering.... :P
but *, it does hurt
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I will use Steve numbers to make the average $ per credit (2k $ (2881 credits) (0.69$ per credit))
you need to do in 2012:
- 3471$ to keep 50% (289$/month)
- 13800$ to be at 52% (1150$/month)
- 69000$ to be at 54% (5750$/month)
believe there is no need to make more maths, more than enough ;D
congratulations 123RF for the raise!
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congratulations 123RF for the raise!
?
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congratulations 123RF for the raise!
?
won't they get a raise? ;D
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I'm over the 45% mark but won't make the 50% mark. I had a BME in November in spite of not having uploaded for most of 2012, so perhaps I'll just let what's there sit and earn until it doesn't. I don't feel inclined to reward them with any new content given how I feel about their greed. Once the files have aged out elsewhere I might upload "old" stuff to them.
I'm still holding out hope they may come to their senses...
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I think Anglee or another rep said in another thread not long back that they are going to have a calculator type thing implemented on the site 'closer to the date' of the new RC system.
Well, just 3 weeks out, I think this is close enough to let people know how much of a rate cut they will get.
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"Sales will double"
"half of your sales will come in the last quarter"
"this change will increase your sales"
yeah, sure, I've got a bridge for sale too.
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Income raises in 2012 +41% by gain of portfolioimages +20%, will fall down to 35% commision in 2013. I stay with them because the site is running well, the upload is easy and they accept the most pictures of any agency.
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Meh, no problem dropping 123rf. One less idiotic greedy microstock agent to deal with. Bring on January!
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just ran my credits it came out to be around 100 thus my price is 'Free' for 2013 ::)
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I'm dropping from 50% to 35% if I've calculated it correctly. I saw some increase in sales but it was probably related as much to the increased uploads more than any increased traffic to the site. They are currently my #3 income earner but they'll be dropping down with the bottom feeders if and when the change goes through. Like Joann, I can't get too excited about rewarding them with new content. I'll be re-thinking my strategy for all the low-earners this year. I wonder how far down the middle tier rankings they'll be dropping when the change goes through.
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Happy New Year Everyone :D
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congratulations 123RF for the raise!
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won't they get a raise? ;D
I am sure "they" will! Question is, who are they? ;)
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just ran my credits it came out to be around 100 thus my price is 'Free' for 2013 ::)
You are lucky then! You should feel the change the least. ;D
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congratulations 123RF for the raise!
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won't they get a raise? ;D
I am sure "they" will! Question is, who are they? ;)
not easy for you to understand me, pretty much I am thinking of 123RF pockets, contributors that will have a raise? have no idea and pretty much don't care too!
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congratulations 123RF for the raise!
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won't they get a raise? ;D
I am sure "they" will! Question is, who are they? ;)
not easy for you to understand me, pretty much I am thinking of 123RF pockets, contributors that will have a raise? have no idea and pretty much don't care too!
The winking face means a I do understand you, I am just exploring the statement further = I do not think there are many people who will see the raise part of 123RF's new commission structure. Clearer for you now?
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congratulations 123RF for the raise!
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won't they get a raise? ;D
I am sure "they" will! Question is, who are they? ;)
not easy for you to understand me, pretty much I am thinking of 123RF pockets, contributors that will have a raise? have no idea and pretty much don't care too!
The winking face means a I do understand you, I am just exploring the statement further = I do not think there are many people who will see the raise part of 123RF's new commission structure. Clearer for you now?
Luis was congratulating 123rf on their raise from the money they will receive from cutting our commissions. He wasn't referring to any contributors.
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Luis was congratulating 123rf on their raise from the money they will receive from cutting our commissions. He wasn't referring to any contributors.
OK, got you (and Luis). Thank you for the translation :D
(Sorry Luis)
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15000 + credits, probably 40% ish better than 2011
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Luis was congratulating 123rf on their raise from the money they will receive from cutting our commissions. He wasn't referring to any contributors.
OK, got you (and Luis). Thank you for the translation :D
(Sorry Luis)
all good CD ;)
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I haven't given it much thought, nor did I focus strongly on them - seemed unattainable. I like the site but they'll probably drift back to about #9 in order of uploading.
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I'm keeping 50%. Sales have actually been quite good for me on 123 for the past 6 months or so. One of the few sites showing significant growth for me.
me too :)
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I'm keeping 50%. Sales have actually been quite good for me on 123 for the past 6 months or so. One of the few sites showing significant growth for me.
me too :)
+1
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Glad to see some positive feedback. I also like the site a lot. They have been my nr. 1 seller for very long. Just struggling with sales from my port last few months it seems. SS only passed it on YTD recently.
OK, Alex. Seems like there is some good feedback rolling here. Will be a good queue for you to come in now and confirm your plans for 2013.... ;)
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Started in april 2012, stopped uploading a month ago
Credits:
Sub: 110
S: 51
M: 88
L: 129
XL: 96
XXLTF: 20
XXLMH: 5
PEL: 50
EEL: 0
CEL: 0
MS: 0
100MB: 0
200MB: 0
300MB: 0
Total: 549
(Royalty Level: 35%)
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Started in april 2012, stopped uploading a month ago
Credits:
Sub: 110
S: 51
M: 88
L: 129
XL: 96
XXLTF: 20
XXLMH: 5
PEL: 50
EEL: 0
CEL: 0
MS: 0
100MB: 0
200MB: 0
300MB: 0
Total: 549
(Royalty Level: 35%)
I feel your pain brother..... :'(
PS No man! You are counting wrong. Each download is not = 1 credit. Go check the scale!
If you click on earnings, just below the "Contributor's Message of the Day" there are 2 tables, the second one is the scale on which you calculate your credits.
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Started in april 2012, stopped uploading a month ago
Credits:
Sub: 110
S: 51
M: 88
L: 129
XL: 96
XXLTF: 20
XXLMH: 5
PEL: 50
EEL: 0
CEL: 0
MS: 0
100MB: 0
200MB: 0
300MB: 0
Total: 549
(Royalty Level: 35%)
I feel your pain brother..... :'(
Thanks. Its also why the big guys dont get hit, and probably dont feel the need to leave or do something about it. Most big ports keep their 50%. Its the little guys that get hit the hardest.
But dont get me wrong, I am not trying to blame anyone but me for not doing better.
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Started in april 2012, stopped uploading a month ago
Credits:
Sub: 110
S: 51
M: 88
L: 129
XL: 96
XXLTF: 20
XXLMH: 5
PEL: 50
EEL: 0
CEL: 0
MS: 0
100MB: 0
200MB: 0
300MB: 0
Total: 549
(Royalty Level: 35%)
I feel your pain brother..... :'(
PS No man! You are counting wrong. Each download is not = 1 credit. Go check the scale!
LOL. no, I only had 179 dls
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Just got happy there for you for one moment. Glad I could at least make you LOLed (under the circumstances) :'(
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and no reply from 123RF ;D
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Another load of BS about how you can even earn higher %, rewarding the good contributors. Then people with more than 5000 photos are either losing % or at best managing to stay even.
Throw away your bootleg copy of the Istock Management 101 book now before its too late.
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1000 pics and 35% here we come......
Grrrrrrrrrrr
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What irks me is that they never paid us 50% anyway. If I look at my stats, I can't see where I've ever received 50% of the sale. They paid me somewhere between 0% to 45% depending on what discounts, freebies or what country the image was purchased from. If they had fixed commissions, I would probably stay. But dropping to 45% really means that I'm dropping somewhere between 0% and 45%.
The other thing that bothers me is if they have a few bad month my commission will drop again. Why should my commissions drop if they're suddenly not performing? It's bad enough to cope with reduced sales from a poor performing site, but reduced sales with lower commissions is unacceptable.
It will be interesting to see if they go ahead with the change. I can't imagine too many people staying if they do. They don't have a way to disable images so people won't bother having to upload everything again and with the new structure, not many new contributors will sign up. They'll become a low earner in no time. They're sitting on 14% but I can't remember what they were on before this announcement was made. Can anyone else remember? Was it somewhere around 16%
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They should honor their previous commitment to grandfather established contributors at the 50% rate. Over the last four years I've steadily sent the best I have. About 1700 images so far. (I'm a part timer...still need the day job to pay the bills.) My effort, like other contributors, has helped them grow and survive. Instead of recognition we are being shoved into the dirt. Royalty cuts suck.
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Grandfathering is, by definition, an unfair practice - not that fairness and business have any relationship but I'd have nothing to do with any site that had such a practice. They are there to make money for themselves not the suppliers. That's fair enough but they will simply become not worth submitting to for the small guy and I won't be adding any new stuff unless the subs price at least is standard across all contributors. If enough small guys feel the same there won't be much in the way of savings as the big folks keep their commissions but they will simply have less new material to offer than the competition.
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and no reply from 123RF ;D
Still 3 weeks to go. Hopefully a rep will still be kind enough to pay us a visit here and let us know what is going down (unless the attitude is "we have told you what is to come, what more is there to say?). :-\
You might be not to far of the mark there heywoody, but, as proven with quite a number of new sites, even the worst paying sites still get their influx of hopeful new combers.
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Hmmmm, worked really hard to grow my port in 2012, from just under 800 to just under 1300 images but I'm still going to drop to 45%
Not happy - where do I go to whinge??
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Heywoody, iStock has a history of "grandfathering", in fact it was the first place I ever heard the word.
Actually, I don't see the unfairness. If you contract to supply material at a fixed rate and then the rate is changed shouldn't you still be entitled to the terms on which you supplied it? Perhaps you wouldn't have provided it in the first place if the new conditions were in force, so not grandfathering is really a way of reneging on agreements.
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Hi Everyone,
I have briefed our IT team on the mechanics of the new commission levels system, and how to calculate it.
You will be able to see your current contributor levels by next week.
Thank you,
Alex.
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Paul,
To be honest it wasn’t a term that I was familiar with either so looked up the origins. I’m not one of those folks who are naive enough to believe all men are equal but I don’t hold with one group of people been treated less favourably than another because of accident of birth, race, creed or because they happened to be in a certain place at a certain time. Grandfathering is pure and simply a divide and conquer approach by the unscrupulous that appeals to people’s greed (or other equally natural but not very laudable traits) so they are happy enough to sell those coming after them down the river as long as they themselves are not affected.
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Hi Everyone,
I have briefed our IT team on the mechanics of the new commission levels system, and how to calculate it.
You will be able to see your current contributor levels by next week.
Thank you,
Alex.
you might adjust them because the promises weren't exactly followed ;)
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Thank you for responding Alex. How do you guys feel about the foretasted increase of sales and the influence its success/failure might have on the majority of your contributors?
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Hi Everyone,
I have briefed our IT team on the mechanics of the new commission levels system, and how to calculate it.
You will be able to see your current contributor levels by next week.
Thank you,
Alex.
Alex, has there ever been a promise that you actually kept?
You've only just 'briefed' your IT team about this three weeks before the due date when you've made the announcement to go ahead with this stupid RC system about a year ago? So now not only is 123rf untrustworthy and unreliable, I can add 'incompetent' too.
Also as a courtesy, when you've implemented this new scheme of yours, can you please also implement a button that we can press to delete our entire portfolio. After that, implement a button that 123rf can press to self implode.
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Using that calculator and adding on possible sales for the rest of the month I am probably going to be about 100 - 150 credits away from keeping 50% !!!
Do our commisions change at the beginning of each year and hold for a year or will they always be calculated on the previous 12 months? I hope it's the latter as then I could soon be back to 50%.
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Alex, I don't see anywhere on the site that I can calculate my level. Does such a calculator exist, as you promised?
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Using that calculator and adding on possible sales for the rest of the month I am probably going to be about 100 - 150 credits away from keeping 50% !!!
Do our commisions change at the beginning of each year and hold for a year or will they always be calculated on the previous 12 months? I hope it's the latter as then I could soon be back to 50%.
As I understood it, it is a monthly calculation over the previous 12 months.
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Using that calculator and adding on possible sales for the rest of the month I am probably going to be about 100 - 150 credits away from keeping 50% !!!
Do our commisions change at the beginning of each year and hold for a year or will they always be calculated on the previous 12 months? I hope it's the latter as then I could soon be back to 50%.
Here's the page (http://www.123rf.com/contrib_affirm.php) describing this mess. Each month you add the last 12, so if you have some bad months in the prior 12 and you're close to the boundary, you could be bouncing back and forth between 45 and 50% for a while
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Confirmed: "At the end of every month, a Contributor’s total credits from all downloads in the previous 12 months shall be summed"
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Confirmed: "At the end of every month, a Contributor’s total credits from all downloads in the previous 12 months shall be summed"
I hope it's that simple. I gave up trying to understand it.
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Thanks all, at least I should be able to get back to 50% by about February when sales get back to normal after the holidays. I thought that I might be stuck with 45% all year.
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Hi Everyone,
I have briefed our IT team on the mechanics of the new commission levels system, and how to calculate it.
You will be able to see your current contributor levels by next week.
Thank you,
Alex.
Get on with it, I need to calculate how angry I'm going to get :) At least I was able to remove my 123RF images on Pond5 and get 50% commission by selling direct.
I just hope buyers carry on leaving the sites that are cutting commissions. I'll encourage them by not uploading anything new to 123RF.
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Have I said this before? I must have. They are cutting me back by 30% so they can f*ck themselves over at 123. Stopped uploading early November and if the drop is really bad come January I will delete my portfolio. *ssholes.
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Have I said this before? I must have. They are cutting me back by 30% so they can f*ck themselves over at 123. Stopped uploading early November and if the drop is really bad come January I will delete my portfolio. *ssholes.
No need to hold back. If you feel like saying something, just come right out and say it... ;) ;D
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Get on with it, I need to calculate how angry I'm going to get :)
;D
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Well, I've done my calculations (no thanks to 123rf who don't even have a calculator for the job). If I remain with them it's on the understanding that I accept a 40% pay cut.
Merry Christmas 123.
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Get on with it, I need to calculate how angry I'm going to get :)
;D
That's hilarious sharpshot ;D
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123rf please go ahead and add a "Delete Entire Portfolio" button.
Your prices are too low, your discounts are too high and your overall sales aren't high enough to pull a stunt like this and get away with it.
So instead of uploading a couple thousand videos I'm just gonna hit that delete button instead.
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Definitely no new stuff but will hold off for a bit on the delete - DP look too cheap so nowhere else to go after top 4.
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Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your patience, I tested a beta today but we're just double checking that all information is correct.
We wouldn't want to give the wrong information and it's the first time we're doing this so, hope you can just bear with us just a little longer.
Thanks for your understanding.
Alex.
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Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your patience, I tested a beta today but we're just double checking that all information is correct.
We wouldn't want to give the wrong information and it's the first time we're doing this so, hope you can just bear with us just a little longer.
Thanks for your understanding.
Alex.
Appreciate your update, not withstanding the rather hostile environment Alex (and now for the thunderous applause ;))
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don't forget to cut the needed credits in half too ;)
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123rf currently bragging about being the "low price leader for royalty free content" on their homepage.
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123rf please go ahead and add a "Delete Entire Portfolio" button.
Your prices are too low, your discounts are too high and your overall sales aren't high enough to pull a stunt like this and get away with it.
So instead of uploading a couple thousand videos I'm just gonna hit that delete button instead.
+1
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123rf currently bragging about being the "low price leader for royalty free content" on their homepage.
If their volume went way, way up, that might be fine, but it won't. Even though sales have been good the last couple of months, I don't see anyone reporting the promised boom in sales that was going to lead to goodness next year with their new royalty ripoff scheme.
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It looks like they are falling short on their increased sales promise almost as much as I am falling short of keeping my 50%.
I guess everyone will bear with you 'til Jan first. After that might be another story.
ETA - You announced this RC &%$& a long time ago and you are just getting around to trying to provide a way for us to tell what our totals are now? Where and when can we actually see the total?
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I admit my sales are up from previous year(s). Almost double actually - but double of not-worth-the-effort still isn't much. I'm trying hard not to get all riled up about this and just leave quietly. A paycut plus full rez subs for 25 cents? Screw that. I don't need them and they obviously don't need me either.
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I admit my sales are up from previous year(s). Almost double actually - but double of not-worth-the-effort still isn't much. I'm trying hard not to get all riled up about this and just leave quietly. A paycut plus full rez subs for 25 cents? Screw that. I don't need them and they obviously don't need me either.
Yep, this is the thing - most people won't even make a fuss out of it. People won't even bother to complain, they'll just leave quietly and 123rf will sink without too many caring. They're too small to even notice a dent in most of our earnings and after the drop in revenue, the impact will be even less making it even easier to leave. Most contributors who leave will never go through the trouble of uploading again, even if they raise their commissions. Who's going to bother with such a small unprofessional site? They were lucky to get people to upload the first time. The contributors that make the 50% will probably stay, even some at 45% but I doubt many who drops to a lower rate will hang around too long after Jan 1st. Over time, the site will become stale with the same content from the same contributors. Very few new contributors will sign up with the new pathetic rates and buyers will eventually get bored and move on. I predict within a year 123rf will become a low earner.
They are the cheapest, they rip us off with massive discounts, prices vary between countries (after taking in the currency exchange), their site is ridiculous, their communication is pathetic, they're incompetent and they expect to get away with lowering commissions even further? I'm not in the least bit upset over it, I'm happy to drop them. I actually looking forward to watching it all unfold ;D
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We all are unhappy about the cut, but in working with them for 2 years now I will not call them unprofessional (they might have dealt better with the calculator situation - the need for that should have been pre-evident when announcing the basis of the scheme). Further, at nr. 6 on our list of best sellers I will not call them small either.
I am going to fall in the 40% bracket (a 20% reduction), which is going to hurt my income as they are my 2nd best seller. I can just hope that they drop their ratios to reduce the impact of the scheme, seeing that they could not keep their end of the bargain of increasing our sales with nearly as much as they indicated. That move, in my opinion, will redeem a lot of respect of their loyal contributors. If increases in sales in 2013 justify it, then they can up the scales to what they wanted it to be at the start of the year. Much better than the grandfathering concept in my opinion.
How about that Alex? Does that not sound fair (Quid pro quo)?
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Hi Everyone,
You should be able to see your levels now.
Please visit: http://www.123rf.com/sellimages.php (http://www.123rf.com/sellimages.php) (fastest)
And here: http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php (http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php) (captcha & much slower)
I hope this helps clear the air a bit. I'd like to thank everyone here submitting your suggestions to us.
As usual, we will look at them seriously, our plan is still on track, to continue forging ahead and opening up new markets.
Thank you very much, have a Merry Christmas and I hope that you will continue to be with us in 2013.
Alex
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We all are unhappy about the cut, but in working with them for 2 years now I will not call them unprofessional (they might have dealt better with the calculator situation - the need for that should have been pre-evident when announcing the basis of the scheme). Further, at nr. 6 on our list of best sellers I will not call them small either.
I am going to fall in the 40% bracket (a 20% reduction), which is going to hurt my income as they are my 2nd best seller. I can just hope that they drop their ratios to reduce the impact of the scheme, seeing that they could not keep their end of the bargain of increasing our sales with nearly as much as they indicated. That move, in my opinion, will redeem a lot of respect of their loyal contributors. If increases in sales in 2013 justify it, then they can up the scales to what they wanted it to be at the start of the year. Much better than the grandfathering concept in my opinion.
How about that Alex? Does that not sound fair (Quid pro quo)?
That would be a move in the right direction but I can't help feeling the damage is already done. We should of been able to see how many credits we needed for 2012 on 1st January 2012. It's a shambles now and as they're a low earning site, there's no incentive to upload. They really need to scrap this until 2014 or until they have sales on a par with the big 4 sites. As that's not going to happen, I'll keep hoping their buyers go to other sites. GLStockImages is doing quite well, paying 52% commission.
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Tried my best to be the balanced midway arbitrator, but it seems like it is now just a case of Que Sera, Sera.... :-\
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I'm 34 credits away from level 5!!!
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I'm 34 credits away from level 5!!!
YOU aren't level 5, 50%? No wonder most others have taken a huge hit. I thought for sure you would have been, guess you will be in a month or two at least.
I'll be pushing to get to level 4, I came in under what I was expecting and am on level 3 - 40% for the time being (not too far off level 4). This is very disappointing to see 123RF act this way despite not 'doubling' their sales as they said.
I think the backlash will be significant from this change. Unless I'm mistaken, it seems they have also slyly changed their referral program, and now if you refer a contributor it only lasts for 6 months. I'm pretty sure there was nothing concrete written on time-frame prior to this week.
They don't seem to be heading down a good road...
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In the spirit of Christmas, this is to the (traditional) tune of 'O little Town of Bethlehem'
Oh little keen photo-o-gra-a-pher
How lovely is your work
You have produced a lot too-oo date
To earn you could not shirk
Yet in the coming months and years
The agencies will make
It harder for you to provide
As they increase their 'take'
How silently, how silently
Will you withdraw your wares?
Will you slink off into the night
Avoiding glares and stares?
Or will you shout so all can hear
Your fury and your fears
And will you send your future work
To those with listening ears?
I was a keen photo-o-gra-a-pher
When I started this game
My will to shoot dies day by day
As royalty cuts bring shame
Bu-ut there are still a few good folks
Who treat me with respect
So I will stick with those alone
And off the rest can feck.
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I'll be negotiating a little something that would help with the RC levels with the management.
That's all I'm willing to divulge at the moment. I know it's hard to wish me good luck, but I really need some luck to bring your case forward.
Thank you,
Alex.
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To some borderline cases (a little more and you'll get to the next level) if you're doing better in December 2012 than in December 2011, you should be looking forward to the next Contributor Level.
Thank you,
Alex.
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I'm almost at 4800. I made a test, not uploading for about 3 months this year to them and the sales were just the same. Therefore I'll probably leave my images on the site for a while, lets say a month or two. They won't get anything more from me. If I see net income drop I'll just pull my portfolio. I'm not kidding. Sorry 123RF, you're just not big enough to pull stunts like this. I will also recommend to everyone I know involved with stock photography and who's unaware of the ripoff to pull portfolios or at least stop uploading. And of course, to every client I know personally to avoid this agency.
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I'll be negotiating a little something that would help with the RC levels with the management.
That's all I'm willing to divulge at the moment. I know it's hard to wish me good luck, but I really need some luck to bring your case forward.
Thank you,
Alex.
Show them the earnings rating table here. Just look how well the site that hasn't cut commissions is doing. The sites that have cut commissions aren't doing well, for non-exclusives. If your management team want to make 123RF more profitable, commission cuts are very likely to do the opposite. It's likely to hit 123RF much harder, as it isn't a top tier site and it's easy for contributors to leave or stop uploading new images. Many contributors are also buyers or know buyers and word spreads that some sites are much better to use than others.
I think any site that scrapped commission cuts and promised to keep their commissions as they are for the foreseeable future would see a big boost in their profits. If it was 123RF, we would want to see them up with Shutterstock. We would recommend buyers went to your site instead of telling them to go elsewhere. Instead of removing links to your site, we would be making lots of them. All the evidence I can see suggests that's the way to make more money. This is the perfect time to do it because it appears that istock, DT and FT are all falling back and haven't realized that demotivating their suppliers isn't a good strategy.
I'm sure you've seen how unpopular the commission cuts you announced almost a year in advanced went down. I can't see how that's helped 123RF this year. I bet I'm not the only on who's stopped uploading and has encouraged buyers to look elsewhere. The actions of individuals don't make much difference but when lots of us do the same thing, it looks like it does.
So it should be a no-brainer if you explain that to your management and I do wish you luck but if it falls on deaf ears, I don't think 123RF has a good future.
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I'm 34 credits away from level 5!!!
YOU aren't level 5, 50%? No wonder most others have taken a huge hit. I thought for sure you would have been, guess you will be in a month or two at least.
It's one of my newer sites and I'm actually quite pleased with how they are increasing. I think that I definitely will hit 50% again by the end of January so not really worried.
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To those contributors gloating that they will still receive 50% - just remember that this stunt enables 123rf to move the goalposts whenever they want (witness the rigging of results at IS).
I sincerely hope that with this initiative 123rf are cutting their own throats.
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Two posts were removed. Obviously, by looking at this thread, it is OK to be critical to 123RF or other agencies but a certain level of professionalism is required. Coarse language and black humor are not welcome.
Alex certainly does not have to participate in this thread, we should show a little respect when he does - even if we are disagreeing strongly.
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Two posts were removed. Obviously, by looking at this thread, it is OK to be critical to 123RF or other agencies but a certain level of professionalism is required. Coarse language and black humor are not welcome.
Alex certainly does not have to participate in this thread, we should show a little respect when he does - even if we are disagreeing strongly.
It's a two way street isn't it? Telling contributors that they will go ahead and drop their commissions and then saying Merry Christmas in the same post is very disrespectful, is it not? Personally, I find them disgusting and would like to let them know that I have as much (or as little) respect for them as they do for us.
Just because they're owners or employees of a microstock site does not mean they should come here and insult people. A little bit of tact goes a long way. If they want to treat people like dirt, they should expect the favor to be returned.
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It's quite difficult to treat someone with respect whilst they are treating you with contempt.
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13 credits to the next lvl..... :)
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I'll be negotiating a little something that would help with the RC levels with the management.
That's all I'm willing to divulge at the moment. I know it's hard to wish me good luck, but I really need some luck to bring your case forward.
Thank you,
Alex.
Most of us aren't silly. We see what this is. You're going to go back to management to 'forward our case' (lol as if they haven't been watching this forum closely for a year) and you'll be back here with some slightly better news to be deemed the hero while the majority of contributors still have to take a pay cut. If that's the plan - not very original I'm afraid. Any cut by 123rf won't go down well. If you were a high volume seller, some of us would swallow it. But you're not.
I'm going to remain positive though and wait for you to come back here telling us we that we're all getting a pay RISE and that 123rf will finally wear the cost of all the massive discounts they hand out, since it seems as if it's the only way you can sell our images. After the good news, you can truly wish us all a heartfelt "Merry Christmas" and we'll return one :)
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All and all considered (123RF's business decision included), I will not be happy, but will be much more comfortable, if the scale is adjusted by moving all targets one level lower (thus your current level +1).
I will wish Alex as person a nice Christmas in any event (irrespective of the feedback), because that is who I am. I will wish his business a prosperous new year if they can come to this type agreement, because that will show me who they are.
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I'm 34 credits away from level 5!!!
YOU aren't level 5, 50%? No wonder most others have taken a huge hit. I thought for sure you would have been, guess you will be in a month or two at least.
It's one of my newer sites and I'm actually quite pleased with how they are increasing. I think that I definitely will hit 50% again by the end of January so not really worried.
thats the microstocker spirit, you guys can get hit by a bus, I am fine!!! wonder why iStock done what they wanted ;)
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To those contributors gloating that they will still receive 50% - just remember that this stunt enables 123rf to move the goalposts whenever they want (witness the rigging of results at IS).
I sincerely hope that with this initiative 123rf are cutting their own throats.
Sorry if I was one of the ones percieved as gloating as it was far from it. I have been hit so hard by changes at other sites that it was just a relief that I probably won't be affected much by this one. I don't agree with any cuts but at least their levels are fairly easily obtainable if you take stock at all seriously.
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I'm 34 credits away from level 5!!!
YOU aren't level 5, 50%? No wonder most others have taken a huge hit. I thought for sure you would have been, guess you will be in a month or two at least.
It's one of my newer sites and I'm actually quite pleased with how they are increasing. I think that I definitely will hit 50% again by the end of January so not really worried.
thats the microstocker spirit, you guys can get hit by a bus, I am fine!!! wonder why iStock done what they wanted ;)
As I said in a previous post it's more a relief than anything even though this site is not a big earner. I have been hit so badly most other places that I don't think I could take another big hit.
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Yes, the guys who keep their % should stay as should those who get an increase. If the rest of us quit or at least stop uploading and the impact on the bottom line might lead to a reconsideration. Seems even IS realise that an unhappy pool of suppliers is not good for business (whether or not action is taken is another thing) - for a small player the loss of goodwill could be a disaster,
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Yes, the guys who keep their % should stay as should those who get an increase. If the rest of us quit or at least stop uploading and the impact on the bottom line might lead to a reconsideration. Seems even IS realise that an unhappy pool of suppliers is not good for business (whether or not action is taken is another thing) - for a small player the loss of goodwill could be a disaster,
I wonder why are case studies made for... seems that we only learn by doing mistakes ourself!
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Hi Alex,
Thanks for responding, despite the negative attacks from many people. I hope you understand how frustrating it is for everyone here who are working as hard as possible to make marketable images and to promote agencies that treat them fairly only to be hit with a royalty cut. It feels like a kick in the teeth.
I appreciate your interceding with top management on our behalf to try to mitigate the effects of the impending cuts. Many here will leave your agency in January. I suspect most of us will stop uploading for a while and see what happens with sales. If things don't pick up and 123 drops into the low earners then we probably won't bother again. I hope you can be successful but if management doesn't consider all contributors instead of just the largest ones then everyone else will leave, your database will stagnate and buyers will go elsewhere in the long run as pointed out by others. We need you to sell our images but without our content you have nothing to sell. The relationship should be symbiotic rather than parasitic. Royalty cuts tilt it in the wrong direction. There used to be lots of positive buzz about 123rf in these forums but you can see that dried up a year ago. Grandfathering would have solved most of those problems. Oh well.
My main criticism now that has not been commented on is with the subscription rates. A base of 21 cents is just too low. In two weeks, 123rf will have the distinction of having the lowest payout rate for subscriptions in the industry. Is that how you want to be known? I could certainly never recommend your site to any new people with that low subs rate - really it is insulting to pay so low per download. I will not be at the bottom, but will be low enough that I won't want to sell subs at 123rf beginning in January.
Could you please check with management to ask whether we can have an opt-out option for subscription sales? If I could opt out of subscription sales until I would have a decent rate of return I would feel much better about the cuts. Even better would be to increase the base subs rate to at least 25 or 30 cents to be consistent with your competitors - nobody else pays lower than 25 cents. You can understand that if we continue to support a site that undercuts all of the others in subscription payout rates it might encourage the others to drop theirs. Therefore, for us to maintain our business it becomes best for 123rf to fail. I'm sure that's not what you intend but that will be the outcome. Dropping royalty rates is bad, but dropping them below anyone else in the industry is unacceptable. I hope you can get management to do something about the proposed subscription rates before the relationship becomes antagonistic - you can see how well that has worked out for iStock. Thanks.
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I'm 34 credits away from level 5!!!
YOU aren't level 5, 50%? No wonder most others have taken a huge hit. I thought for sure you would have been, guess you will be in a month or two at least.
It's one of my newer sites and I'm actually quite pleased with how they are increasing. I think that I definitely will hit 50% again by the end of January so not really worried.
To make things clear I am in no way pleased with the commission slashes but have been quite pleased with the increase in sales the last few months. I realize now how condecending that must have sounded to anybody that will take a cut and apologize for being so tactless.
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The relationship should be symbiotic rather than parasitic.
That is the most succinct and perfect description I have ever read on this subject. Bravo.
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I don't begrudge any contributor their success - albeit with a modest middle tier site. I understand that we each have to make the cash as best we can - and with so many sites behaving so shabbily to contributors, it's getting harder to ignore anywhere that can generate a regular source of income.
I do harbor all sorts of negative thoughts about 123rf''s attempt to increase their profits by looting contributor's share versus growing the business overall. If those hurt by these new rates don't upload anything new, their subscription business will be impacted - new content is the lifeblood of subscriptions. It's possible we might still influence them to behave better towards us.
I could understand if those earning 50% or over resented those of us who don't upload hurting a site that's paying them well. But them's the breaks.
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I miss the 54 credit for level 4, and in December 2011 I had more money than doubled December 2012,at all the sites that we have so far reduced earnings and promised a higher traffic and profit, the profit is bypassed me :(
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Two posts were removed. Obviously, by looking at this thread, it is OK to be critical to 123RF or other agencies but a certain level of professionalism is required. Coarse language and black humor are not welcome.
Alex certainly does not have to participate in this thread, we should show a little respect when he does - even if we are disagreeing strongly.
You removed one of mine which I think was nothing wrong with. You could have edited the post, now the whole point didnt come across. Still karma will find its way. Karma always does. As soon as IS and 123 go down no other agency will ever think of lowering royalties again.
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I could understand if those earning 50% or over resented those of us who don't upload hurting a site that's paying them well. But them's the breaks.
I will be keeping 50% for now, but I certainly would not resent anyone who isn't for stopping uploading. It's not your job to support my interests, but to support your own.
Besides, all of our interests would be better served if this RC credit scheme were nipped in the bud.
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Hi Everyone,
You should be able to see your levels now.
Please visit: [url]http://www.123rf.com/sellimages.php[/url] ([url]http://www.123rf.com/sellimages.php[/url]) (fastest)
And here: [url]http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php[/url] ([url]http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php[/url]) (captcha & much slower)
I hope this helps clear the air a bit. I'd like to thank everyone here submitting your suggestions to us.
As usual, we will look at them seriously, our plan is still on track, to continue forging ahead and opening up new markets.
Thank you very much, have a Merry Christmas and I hope that you will continue to be with us in 2013.
Alex
Since my post was removed I will tell you again in a professional manner.
Wishing someone a merry christmas after your employer cut their royalties by 30% could be considered a form of sadism. To me personally it feels like sadism and I am very upset by you wishing me a merry christmas.
I think what you are doing is greedy and that is one of the 7 sins and I also believe in karma and that 123 will get their fair share. I personally hope that, once all you guys over 123 have experienced how it feels to be cut on income, you will never pull a stunt like that again.
So all of the be above is my personal opinion and what is on my mind. I am not accusing you of anything, I am just sharing my thoughts. This should fall well within the freedom of speech and the forum rules.
Thanks for understanding and giving me the opportunity to share my thoughts and feelings.
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I'm almost at 4800. I made a test, not uploading for about 3 months this year to them and the sales were just the same. Therefore I'll probably leave my images on the site for a while, lets say a month or two. They won't get anything more from me. If I see net income drop I'll just pull my portfolio. I'm not kidding. Sorry 123RF, you're just not big enough to pull stunts like this. I will also recommend to everyone I know involved with stock photography and who's unaware of the ripoff to pull portfolios or at least stop uploading. And of course, to every client I know personally to avoid this agency.
I am a very small fish, 600 photos, but I have stopped uploading early november and I will pull my port as soon as I have hit the next payout.
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Royalty cuts are never good and never seemed to be justified with any increased earnings that I've witnessed. This one seems particularly hurtful. I consider myself to be a serious part timer. I've invested in studio equipment with the intent of making this a long time endeavor with a goal of becoming full time. My portfolio has grown slow but steady but has yet to grow to the level shown by long term full timers. For the past few years my images were deemed worthy of 50% but come January I'll drop to 35% primarily because my portfolio is small. It's a slap in the face to have 123 change the terms so drastically and devalue my efforts like this. They want me to invest time and effort in them to grow while they pull the means out from under me. It disappoints me too because they were consistently my #3 earning site but they will be descending to a much lower level come January. I'll be taking a wait and see attitude next year. Getting back to my current level appears to be years away unless they show a lot more than doubling sales even if I quadruple my portfolio.
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I see where it tells us what our current level is, but I can't for the life of me find the chart that gives the numbers of what levels are for each rank. Can anyone help with that?
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I see where it tells us what our current level is, but I can't for the life of me find the chart that gives the numbers of what levels are for each rank. Can anyone help with that?
Its on the captcha page before you login to see your earnings
http://www.123rf.com/contrib_affirm.php?goback=http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php (http://www.123rf.com/contrib_affirm.php?goback=http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php)
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I see where it tells us what our current level is, but I can't for the life of me find the chart that gives the numbers of what levels are for each rank. Can anyone help with that?
Its on the captcha page before you login to see your earnings
[url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_affirm.php?goback=http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php[/url] ([url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_affirm.php?goback=http://www.123rf.com/submit/commission.php[/url])
Oh, I don't remember noticing that. Guess I only just look at the captcha. Thanks a lot Poncke :)
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To some borderline cases (a little more and you'll get to the next level) if you're doing better in December 2012 than in December 2011, you should be looking forward to the next Contributor Level.
Thank you,
Alex.
You can sugar coat this all you like, but there's no good news in this. Trying to make the whole enterprise seem a little better by offering a boost to one or two people is just sad.
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Ahh - pretty complex! I ended up with 2881 credits for 2012 to date. So I'm at 45%
Steve
really? you must have a lot subs and small downloads
Same here: Your contributor level : 4 | Past 12 Month Credits Total : 3499
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I wonder how Leaf's poll on the right works. My worry is that a lot of us low earners will drop them (or some of you have said stop uploading) but they will be boosted in the poll because those making a somewhat fair % will be the only survivors/voters.
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I wonder how Leaf's poll on the right works. My worry is that a lot of us low earners will drop them (or some of you have said stop uploading) but they will be boosted in the poll because those making a somewhat fair % will be the only survivors/voters.
Here is a discussion on how the polls work
http://www.microstockgroup.com/site-related/why-is-the-shutterstock-ranking-not-100-anymore/ (http://www.microstockgroup.com/site-related/why-is-the-shutterstock-ranking-not-100-anymore/)
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The calculations are wrong and not surprisingly, in their favor.
For those that have been giving an earful to those that have made the 50% I think that's a little unfair. If you were in their position you would be pleased about it too (for the moment) but you have to remember that it's not all roses for them either. Just because they're 50% now it doesn't mean they'll remain at 50%. If many who are under 50% leave, buyers will too and in their long term their sales will fall and they could possibly fall below the 50%. 123rf could also move the goal posts again or introduce something that decreases credit sales and increases subscription sales, making them lose their ranking. But long term, what does it all mean? Will anyone apart from 123rf really suffer? As sales go down, more contributors will leave, more buyers will leave and they'll buy our images from one of the other sites. The big loser here will be 123rf. The top ranking folk will gain from this initially when we pull our ports but give it time and they'll feel the pinch too. The important thing is that 123rf will feel the pinch right away and they'll have deserved it. They've forgotten that the only reason why such a small micro like them have had success is that we've helped them get there. We can easily put them back in their place. They're not screwing us over, they're screwing themselves. It's going to be fun to watch.
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I dont think anyone here has a problem with people keeping 50% or more. Its about the way its communicated. Saying you are happy or gloating are two different things.
Note:not accusing anyone here
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In hindsight I think it was a big mistake to make such a bold announcement so far in advance. I get that there is a desire to be perceived as transparent (though perception isn't always reality). Though the notification helped me decide to halt all uploads then and there.
So having put no effort into my 123rf account for the better part of the last year I find myself in tier 3. It makes me wonder if had been uploading regularly would I be up in tier 5? I'll never know. I'm still bothered greatly by their policy to charge contributors for promotional credits but that's a whole other discussion.
Mat
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So having put no effort into my 123rf account for the better part of the last year I find myself in tier 3. It makes me wonder if had been uploading regularly would I be up in tier 5? I'll never know. I'm still bothered greatly by their policy to charge contributors for promotional credits but that's a whole other discussion.
Mat
From Level 3 to Level 5? No way from my experience and the stuff I submit, that's more than double credits you need to earn. I have been uploading all months long only to find being fooled at the end, sitting in the middle of level 4, very upset!
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Ultimately EVERYONE is going to bleed, even the decision makers in this relationship (although they are clearly oblivious to it at the moment). The "winner" doesn't take it all, because there will be zip to take in the end.
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As expected not happy, only full time and most talented contributors can maintain 50%.
Subscriptions which make up majority of my sales will have the largest % reduction.
I have now stopped uploading to 123rf.
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Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
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Your calculations are again wrong. According to this page: http://davidgilder.com/misc/123RF_credit_calculator.html (http://davidgilder.com/misc/123RF_credit_calculator.html) which I found to be correct and I verified it in the past, I am at 4979 credits right now. According to your math, I am at 4786. I did the math myself, manually - and you're wrong. From January 2012 until now.
Things stay the same - you cut me short to 45%, I'll cut you short of 10.000 images. Your bosses might think they're in istock's shoes but that's far from the truth.
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To some borderline cases (a little more and you'll get to the next level) if you're doing better in December 2012 than in December 2011, you should be looking forward to the next Contributor Level.
Thank you,
Alex.
This could mean I will scrape a level 6, which is nice. How close to the borderline do you have to be?
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Hi there,
@tabimura, if you feel that we've made some wrong calculations on your total, please write in to [email protected], we'll be happy to verify your figures with IT.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
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Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
Have the figures been updated yet as mine are the same as yesterday, just short of the 5000?
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@fotografer - The total that you see now was generated using the new formula.
Thank you!
Alex.
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Hi there,
@tabimura, if you feel that we've made some wrong calculations on your total, please write in to [email protected], we'll be happy to verify your figures with IT.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
Done.
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Thanks for the updates Alex
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Thanks for the updates Alex
In the good spirit of not killing the messenger - have hoped for better, as the grant does not help me much (very few of those sales), but thank you for the effort Alex.
PS And may you and your family (honestly) have a blessed Christmas.
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@fotografer - The total that you see now was generated using the new formula.
Thank you!
Alex.
Ah ok thanks :(
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Seems like this is going to be the final word from 123RF management. As Jeff always say in Survivor - "Enough said - time to vote....." ;)
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Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
And the delete button, Alex? Where's the delete button...?
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S..t. - I missed 50% by 200 credits. Am I to feel encouraged to upload more or demotivated? I'm afraid I'm too lazy to upload more.
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Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
raising the credits for the least bought sizes is easy, it will make no difference to anyone.
thanks for the effort, but still you will not get any of my new files.
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Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
And the delete button, Alex? Where's the delete button...?
+ 1
I'd like a button too. If I have to I'll go through the current painstaking deletion process but as a courtesy, since you're really forcing the issue on us, you should provide us with a button that wipes everything and ends with a popup that says "nice knowing you" :D
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so thats all you will do? haven´t you guys learned anything from the leading stock company in terms of revenue?
ETA: why have I got a minus? some people have serious issues ;D
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Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
And the delete button, Alex? Where's the delete button...?
+ 1
I'd like a button too. If I have to I'll go through the current painstaking deletion process but as a courtesy, since you're really forcing the issue on us, you should provide us with a button that wipes everything and ends with a popup that says "nice knowing you" :D
The button would be nice. Ehhh... when I got time, I will just start deleting manually if I can. Got money sitting there but maybe 123rf needs it more than I.
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Delete button please!!!... :-X
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The button would be nice. Ehhh... when I got time, I will just start deleting manually if I can. Got money sitting there but maybe 123rf needs it more than I.
No, don't give them another cent. Convert the balance to credits and buy something from one of your buddies that are still there - even if you don't need it. Better some goes to them than handing over 100% of your earnings to those greedy {insert your own word here}.
I'm also a buyer so they'll be losing a bit extra when I pack my bags.
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Delete button please!!!... :-X
There's no need for a delete button. I simply wrote support and asked to remove my portfolio and it was done promptly (with a courteous reply).
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Good to know...thanks KB ;)
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Delete button please!!!... :-X
There's no need for a delete button. I simply wrote support and asked to remove my portfolio and it was done promptly (with a courteous reply).
Thanks KB. I'm close to payout. I'll take my money - and then take my images too.
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Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
So, if I have this right, your big concession to contributors is to increase the counts for the three image operations that are rarely used and help out footage and EVO contributors with a doubling of credits for levels calculations?
Does this honestly seem to you as if you are doing anything for the bulk of those complaining about your new scheme?
If you want to be the agency with Yuri, MonkeyBusinessImages, other factories and a few individual superstars like Lisa, and nothing else, you're going about it just the right way.
It's not only the cash grab, which is bad enough, but you give the small time or niche contributor no way to increase their earnings - they need to become a factory too to get paid a decent royalty.
I don't think you've been listening carefully enough. If you have been listening, this is a truly insulting response.
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I realize cutting the royalty rate is no fun for anyone but doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something? 36 cents per sub is more than or about the same as SS and even the 35% royalty is higher than SS right?
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I realize cutting the royalty rate is no fun for anyone but doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something? 36 cents per sub is more than or about the same as SS and even the 35% royalty is higher than SS right?
Yes, you are missing something.
As of 1 Jan, anyone on 35% from Credits will be on .25 for a sub.
They are currently offering me .21 for a sub.
They can stuff it.
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doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something?
Yes you are missing something. Shutterstock pays me $0.38 per sub download and 123RF pays only $0.36.
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I realize cutting the royalty rate is no fun for anyone but doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something? 36 cents per sub is more than or about the same as SS and even the 35% royalty is higher than SS right?
higher % is so beautiful when they pay you peanuts comparing to SS low % as you said which is actually 28% for me, guess we don't need to talk about iStock once again....
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I realize cutting the royalty rate is no fun for anyone but doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something? 36 cents per sub is more than or about the same as SS and even the 35% royalty is higher than SS right?
Yes, you are missing something.
As of 1 Jan, anyone on 35% from Credits will be on .25 for a sub.
They are currently offering me .21 for a sub.
They can stuff it.
Ah they do hide that. They are still advertising paying 36 cents for subs on the website.
-
Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
As someone else said, my credits are exactly the same as they were yesterday. Should I not have had a jump from one of these 100 mb sales and no update from my credits from yesterday.
I guess it doesn't matter anyway because I too expect that delete button to appear at month end.
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Hi everyone,
We have made some changes to the calculations, here is a list of the changes:
1) 100MB TIFF - now 150, from 20
2) 200 MB TIFF - now 300, from 40
3) 300 MB TIFF - now 450, from 60
4) If the Contributor also submits content to the Footage or EVO collections, 123RF will recognize the credit count that we charge to our clients for the purpose of calculating Contributors' Levels.
Thank you very much,
Alex.
As someone else said, my credits are exactly the same as they were yesterday. Should I not have had a jump from one of these 100 mb sales and no update from my credits from yesterday.
I guess it doesn't matter anyway because I too expect that delete button to appear at month end.
This was answered on the previous page
@fotografer - The total that you see now was generated using the new formula.
Thank you!
Alex.
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I realize cutting the royalty rate is no fun for anyone but doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something? 36 cents per sub is more than or about the same as SS and even the 35% royalty is higher than SS right?
What you're missing is the monthly total earnings. If you're a super high volume site like SS, you can be a top earner with relatively modest royalty percentages or lots of subscriptions - IS was a top earner for lots of indies at 20% for a number of years.
If you're a low volume site, you need to offer a higher royalty percentage to make up for the crappy volume.
Even if 123rf now offers me 50% and 36 cent subs, I made nearly 7 times the money from SS in November as I did from 123rf.
123rf is a lower performer which is now lowering its rates even further. When IS tried it - from the top dog/close 2nd dog position - it backfired. And 123rf figures it'll work for them??
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The 23 cents from FT are lowest I know of, but I get a lot of credit sales there, and other subs are 27 cents. SS pays me 33 cents, but sell hundreds of dls a month, plus loads of ODDs
123 is going to pay me 25 cents on a really low volume. So they will actually earn me as much as DP and CanStockPhoto now. Meaning, race to the bottom.
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I realize cutting the royalty rate is no fun for anyone but doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something? 36 cents per sub is more than or about the same as SS and even the 35% royalty is higher than SS right?
Yes, you're missing a lot, in addition to what has been pointed out already. At SS, we knew going in what the rates were and how much we would receive from what types of sale. Those have never gone down as far as I know. At SS, we made the choice to submit because the higher sales generates greater returns even though the % was lower than at 123. Plus at SS, after earning $500 you go from 25 cent subs to 33 cents - a 32% raise. This is a great incentive to new people.
At 123, starting Jan. 1st they will be paying a base rate of 21 cents for subs sales - the lowest in the business - and the royalty cuts will probably drop them into the low earners. Paying higher royalty rates was a way to attract interest from contributors, but that will disappear in 13 days. They don't have the sales volumes to pull off this kind of stunt. Their scheme will keep the top people happy but everyone else will leave and no new people will come along to replace them.
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I realize cutting the royalty rate is no fun for anyone but doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something? 36 cents per sub is more than or about the same as SS and even the 35% royalty is higher than SS right?
Yes, you're missing a lot, in addition to what has been pointed out already. At SS, we knew going in what the rates were and how much we would receive from what types of sale. Those have never gone down as far as I know. At SS, we made the choice to submit because the higher sales generates greater returns even though the % was lower than at 123. Plus at SS, after earning $500 you go from 25 cent subs to 33 cents - a 32% raise. This is a great incentive to new people.
At 123, starting Jan. 1st they will be paying a base rate of 21 cents for subs sales - the lowest in the business - and the royalty cuts will probably drop them into the low earners. Paying higher royalty rates was a way to attract interest from contributors, but that will disappear in 13 days. They don't have the sales volumes to pull off this kind of stunt. Their scheme will keep the top people happy but everyone else will leave and no new people will come along to replace them.
Good summary!
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That's such a poor concession from the management. I think I'd rather they didn't budge than do something so pointless. I'll see how much I make in the first few months of 2013 but I'm more inclined to start removing images than uploading new ones.
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I wonder how it will work for them (123) having mostly top people left in the contributor pool: they thought they were handing out royalty cuts but they will likely find all they royalties they are paying are between 45 and 50%!
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Level 2. Therefore, unfortunately, I have to remove most unique images from my small 600+ portfolio on 123rf: I anticipate the increased sales of these images on other sites.
With 50% royalty rate I have 0.87$ sales of P(print -sized) images. Even now it is the lowest rate in industry. With 35% I will get ~0.61$!! 0.25$ subscription is insulting too.
123rf has most attractive upload system and friendly team, therefore it would be pity to leave it.
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I realize cutting the royalty rate is no fun for anyone but doesn't 123rf still pay a higher % than shutterstock? Am I missing something? 36 cents per sub is more than or about the same as SS and even the 35% royalty is higher than SS right?
What you're missing is the monthly total earnings. If you're a super high volume site like SS, you can be a top earner with relatively modest royalty percentages or lots of subscriptions - IS was a top earner for lots of indies at 20% for a number of years.
If you're a low volume site, you need to offer a higher royalty percentage to make up for the crappy volume.
Even if 123rf now offers me 50% and 36 cent subs, I made nearly 7 times the money from SS in November as I did from 123rf.
123rf is a lower performer which is now lowering its rates even further. When IS tried it - from the top dog/close 2nd dog position - it backfired. And 123rf figures it'll work for them??
I know I'm going to get torn apart for saying this, but I will say it nonetheless as I'm interested to learn from the responses.
Is there not an argument that ss and IS were (past tense just for IS maybe) able to maintain and increase their top positions i.e. lots of sales, from giving lower royalties than those like 123rf. IS and ss started with low royalties i.e. much less than 50%, many of the others didn't. ss have played smart by simply not decreasing the royalties, IS already had low royalties but were foolish enough to decrease them from a rate where generally people didn't have much of an issue with, to a rate where people say they're unhappy with. I doubt that most buyers had any clue what royalty rate IS were giving before they decided to drop the rate. But the constant bad press about IS since they dropped the rate, I believe is certainly playing its part in their demise lack of growth. It's different for 123rf as it's not as well known, doesn't have as many contributors and not everyone is getting a rate cut.
I personally think that a company such as 123rf could grow even without any royalty changes, growth can come from many things such as initiatives and innovations. But say they don't have this ability, then a logical next step would be to try and get on a level playing field as companies such as ss and IS, which I assume for them means to take a percentage similar to the leaders of the industry. Actually thinking about it, are they even doing that? If we don't look at individual contributors, but look at the files, I'm guessing that a very large proportion of files would maintain 50% or go above 50% for the artists who own these files. None of these guys will be upset by this or remove their files or stop uploading because of the move 123rf are making, heck with the amount of files they have they wouldn't be likely to remove their files or stop uploading even if their royalty rates were reduced by 123rf.
Ok fire away. :)
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I'm guessing that a very large proportion of files would maintain 50% or go above 50% for the artists who own these files. None of these guys will be upset by this or remove their files or stop uploading because of the move 123rf are making, heck with the amount of files they have they wouldn't be likely to remove their files or stop uploading even if their royalty rates were reduced by 123rf.
Ok fire away. :)
You are right.. It's said that the top 20% of contributors on most sites have 80% of the sales so my guess is that the top 20% will either stay at the same % or even go up so will carry on uploading as normal. I don't think that many people like myself that are boarderline 45% - 50% with the possibility of achieving 50% soon will leave either so any action by the contributors that don't sell so much won't make much of a difference to them unless they do something to upset the top sellers.
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I think if 80% of the contributors stop uploading, remove images, stop linking to their site, send buyers elsewhere and post negative things about their commissions in forums and the social media sites, it does have an effect. Is it a coincidence that sites that have cut commissions seem to be selling less relative to Shutterstock?
They don't have the sales volume to justify reducing commissions, unlike the top 4 sites that might get away with it because it hurts financially to leave them.
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I think if 80% of the contributors stop uploading, remove images, stop linking to their site, send buyers elsewhere and post negative things about their commissions in forums and the social media sites, it does have an effect. Is it a coincidence that sites that have cut commissions seem to be selling less relative to Shutterstock?
They don't have the sales volume to justify reducing commissions, unlike the top 4 sites that might get away with it because it hurts financially to leave them.
Of course but 80% of contributors won't leave. I think that there are probably lots of small time contributors that won't even notice the difference. The sites are able to do this because they know if they keep their top contributors happy then It really won't make a huge difference. Of course some people will leave and others will join. If this is a one off they will get away with it but if they start to mess around with the top contributors they will be in trouble. IStocks biggest mistake was to mess around with exclusives and cut the percentage of top independent contributors.
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I know 80% wont leave, I didn't say that. My own actions have slowed down my sales and lost them money and that's before the commission cut. The cumulative effect of lots of us doing something does seem to make a difference, unless it's just a coincidence that the only site not to cut commissions in recent years is doing so much better than the others? Perhaps new people get the sales the rest of us lose but are there enough new people just starting with microstock now and will they bother when they see how little some sites are paying? It was worth doing a few years ago but starting now isn't as appealing.
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You are right.. It's said that the top 20% of contributors on most sites have 80% of the sales so my guess is that the top 20% will either stay at the same % or even go up so will carry on uploading as normal.
Of course but 80% of contributors won't leave. I think that there are probably lots of small time contributors that won't even notice the difference. The sites are able to do this because they know if they keep their top contributors happy then It really won't make a huge difference. Of course some people will leave and others will join. If this is a one off they will get away with it but if they start to mess around with the top contributors they will be in trouble. IStocks biggest mistake was to mess around with exclusives and cut the percentage of top independent contributors.
You mean 20% of contributors with 80% of the sales won't leave. But that leaves 80% of contributors either leaving, stopping to upload and of course all 80% bad mouthing the site. Buyers will get word of it and leave. Don't forget many contributors are also buyers and they'll spread the word faster than anyone else. Eventually those top 20% will be getting less sales, their levels will fall, more contributors will leave resulting in even more buyers leaving and the cycle continues. It's naive (and I have to say a little arrogant) to believe that there'll be no effect on the site if 80% of it's contributors stop uploading or leave.
And don't forget, there are quite a few other issues with 123rf that a lot of us weren't happy about before this new system was announced. Their pricing is way too low, the commission we receive for ELs are insulting, they give away too many discounts at our expense and now we find out that they've admitted (twice) to making errors paying us our already dodgy cut. And they can't even calculate the levels correctly. There were already many people who suspected they were a little bit slimy. All of this has convinced many of us that they are.
Edited to fix my quote
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80% won't leave for sure but many of these will be those who haven't even passed the exam on IS / SS. I reckon quite a chunk of the 20% will be affected (the really top guys will be in the top 5% or less). Generally, burning bridges is not a great move but many, many can stop uploading without noticable pain. Sure the people who keep 50% should stay but that won't be any extra for the site.
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I think if 80% of the contributors stop uploading, remove images, stop linking to their site, send buyers elsewhere and post negative things about their commissions in forums and the social media sites, it does have an effect. Is it a coincidence that sites that have cut commissions seem to be selling less relative to Shutterstock?
They don't have the sales volume to justify reducing commissions, unlike the top 4 sites that might get away with it because it hurts financially to leave them.
Problem is that the buyers will go to other sites with even lower commissions....
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One of the reason I can think for SS keeping all the images that haven't sold for years is that they might be making links to the site that help them in Google searches and bring new buyers in. DT deleting lots of old images doesn't seem to of helped them. All the people that left istock and FT or deleted images seems to of hit their site traffic. Perhaps our old portfolios are more of an asset than some sites think?
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Problem is that the buyers will go to other sites with even lower commissions....
Why do people keep brushing off that pricing is so low there. Why do they keep brushing off they don't 'actually' get 50% of most of their sales because of the heavy discounting? Lol why do people keep ignoring that 123rf was ripping us all off before the new structure? It's been brought up so many times yet so many people continue to praise them for the BS 50% (that we hardly ever get) of their rock bottom prices.
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You are right.. It's said that the top 20% of contributors on most sites have 80% of the sales so my guess is that the top 20% will either stay at the same % or even go up so will carry on uploading as normal.
Of course but 80% of contributors won't leave. I think that there are probably lots of small time contributors that won't even notice the difference. The sites are able to do this because they know if they keep their top contributors happy then It really won't make a huge difference. Of course some people will leave and others will join. If this is a one off they will get away with it but if they start to mess around with the top contributors they will be in trouble. IStocks biggest mistake was to mess around with exclusives and cut the percentage of top independent contributors.
You mean 20% of contributors with 80% of the sales won't leave.
No I don't, the reality of it is that most people will do nothing about it.
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You are right.. It's said that the top 20% of contributors on most sites have 80% of the sales so my guess is that the top 20% will either stay at the same % or even go up so will carry on uploading as normal.
Of course but 80% of contributors won't leave. I think that there are probably lots of small time contributors that won't even notice the difference. The sites are able to do this because they know if they keep their top contributors happy then It really won't make a huge difference. Of course some people will leave and others will join. If this is a one off they will get away with it but if they start to mess around with the top contributors they will be in trouble. IStocks biggest mistake was to mess around with exclusives and cut the percentage of top independent contributors.
You mean 20% of contributors with 80% of the sales won't leave.
No I don't, the reality of it is that most people will do nothing about it.
I don't agree. This isn't SS or IS, or even FT. This is 123rf we're talking about. Why do you assume that people that have to take a cut of any already crappy deal will have an incentive to stay on? The 14% (going by the vote) who are on level 5 and above will stay for sure. The ones on level 4 will be split. I'm on level 4, I'm leaving. Most of the ones that are below level 4, which is more than half (going by the vote) are likely to tell them to shove it.
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You are right.. It's said that the top 20% of contributors on most sites have 80% of the sales so my guess is that the top 20% will either stay at the same % or even go up so will carry on uploading as normal.
Of course but 80% of contributors won't leave. I think that there are probably lots of small time contributors that won't even notice the difference. The sites are able to do this because they know if they keep their top contributors happy then It really won't make a huge difference. Of course some people will leave and others will join. If this is a one off they will get away with it but if they start to mess around with the top contributors they will be in trouble. IStocks biggest mistake was to mess around with exclusives and cut the percentage of top independent contributors.
You mean 20% of contributors with 80% of the sales won't leave.
No I don't, the reality of it is that most people will do nothing about it.
I don't agree. This isn't SS or IS, or even FT. This is 123rf we're talking about. Why do you assume that people that have to take a cut of any already crappy deal will have an incentive to stay on? The 14% (going by the vote) who are on level 5 and above will stay for sure. The ones on level 4 will be split. I'm on level 4, I'm leaving. Most of the ones that are below level 4, which is more than half (going by the vote) are likely to tell them to shove it.
I think that a few will but I still think that the majority will just carry on as before. I don't think that any survey about it done here is a good representation of the contributors as most people won't know the facts of it as well as those of us that read these forums.
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I agree that a small sample is never a completely reliable picture (even though almost everything we are told is good or bad for us is based on extrapolations from small samples) - but I would imagine that most of the truly serious contributors in the biz will have found their way to MSG.
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but I would imagine that most of the truly serious contributors in the biz will have found their way to MSG.
But we are talking about the other 80% ;)
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I think that a few will but I still think that the majority will just carry on as before. I don't think that any survey about it done here is a good representation of the contributors as most people won't know the facts of it as well as those of us that read these forums.
They may not know the facts of it but they're not stupid. I'd say most people will crack it when they start to see those pathetic sub payments rolling in next year - then they'll get pissed off and start asking questions.
You're sitting on 50%. Are you telling me that if they reduced your cut to 30% or 40% you would stay on? What message will that be sending them and the entire industry for that matter? If a nothing site like 123 gets away with it, we can expect the rest of them to cut our pay too.
I'm definitely not going to allow a pissant little microstock company to walk all over me. I hope the majority of contributors think like me rather than like you otherwise we're all screwed aren't we?
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I think that a few will but I still think that the majority will just carry on as before. I don't think that any survey about it done here is a good representation of the contributors as most people won't know the facts of it as well as those of us that read these forums.
You're sitting on 50%. Are you telling me that if they reduced your cut to 30% or 40% you would stay on? What message will that be sending them and the entire industry for that matter? If a nothing site like 123 gets away with it, we can expect the rest of them to cut our pay too.
No not really. I'm saying that if it happened at somewhere like Stockfresh, cutcaster or GL where I don't make a payout each month then I probably wouldn't even notice unless I read it here. I think that there are 1000s of people particularly that don't speak English that upload and don't get involved at all in the way the site works and they will just keep on uploading as usual. I'm not in anyway saying that it is right what they are doing but just that they know that it won't make much of an impact by not attacking the top players.
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[quote author=fotografer link=topic=17596.msg286128#msg286128
If a nothing site like 123 gets away with it, we can expect the rest of them to cut our pay too.
I'm definitely not going to allow a pissant little microstock company to walk all over me.
You've got that right!!!...
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No not really. I'm saying that if it happened at somewhere like Stockfresh, cutcaster or GL where I don't make a payout each month then I probably wouldn't even notice unless I read it here. I think that there are 1000s of people particularly that don't speak English that upload and don't get involved at all in the way the site works and they will just keep on uploading as usual. I'm not in anyway saying that it is right what they are doing but just that they know that it won't make much of an impact by not attacking the top players.
There are a lot of people here on the forum that don't make a payout each month but they still care about being shafted. If anything, the ones that don't make a monthly payout are the ones that can easily leave. Think about it. If they're not making a payout in a month, it's going to take them even longer to reach it so walking out after the change won't have a big impact in their earnings.
Lol and what's English got to do with money? Surely you're not assuming that 80% of contributors are brainless dolts or that anyone who doesn't read or participate in these forums have no clue what they're doing or what's going on. Sorry but that's a little arrogant. I never participated in these forums for years. I read it every now and then but frankly I didn't have the time for it. I still knew exactly what was going on with my money.
And another thing, don’t forget that 123 hasn't been around as long as the big players. There are probably many successful photographers on other sites who only recently joined them and won't give a second thought about leaving them after pulling this stunt.
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No not really. I'm saying that if it happened at somewhere like Stockfresh, cutcaster or GL where I don't make a payout each month then I probably wouldn't even notice unless I read it here. I think that there are 1000s of people particularly that don't speak English that upload and don't get involved at all in the way the site works and they will just keep on uploading as usual. I'm not in anyway saying that it is right what they are doing but just that they know that it won't make much of an impact by not attacking the top players.
There are a lot of people here on the forum that don't make a payout each month but they still care about being shafted. If anything, the ones that don't make a monthly payout are the ones that can easily leave. Think about it. If they're not making a payout in a month, it's going to take them even longer to reach it so walking out after the change won't have a big impact in their earnings.
Lol and what's English got to do with money? Surely you're not assuming that 80% of contributors are brainless dolts or that anyone who doesn't read or participate in these forums have no clue what they're doing or what's going on. Sorry but that's a little arrogant. I never participated in these forums for years. I read it every now and then but frankly I didn't have the time for it. I still knew exactly what was going on with my money.
And another thing, don’t forget that 123 hasn't been around as long as the big players. There are probably many successful photographers on other sites who only recently joined them and won't give a second thought about leaving them after pulling this stunt.
OK we'll see but I still don't think that it will make as much impact on the site as you do.
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No not really. I'm saying that if it happened at somewhere like Stockfresh, cutcaster or GL where I don't make a payout each month then I probably wouldn't even notice unless I read it here. I think that there are 1000s of people particularly that don't speak English that upload and don't get involved at all in the way the site works and they will just keep on uploading as usual. I'm not in anyway saying that it is right what they are doing but just that they know that it won't make much of an impact by not attacking the top players.
There are a lot of people here on the forum that don't make a payout each month but they still care about being shafted. If anything, the ones that don't make a monthly payout are the ones that can easily leave. Think about it. If they're not making a payout in a month, it's going to take them even longer to reach it so walking out after the change won't have a big impact in their earnings.
Lol and what's English got to do with money? Surely you're not assuming that 80% of contributors are brainless dolts or that anyone who doesn't read or participate in these forums have no clue what they're doing or what's going on. Sorry but that's a little arrogant. I never participated in these forums for years. I read it every now and then but frankly I didn't have the time for it. I still knew exactly what was going on with my money.
And another thing, don’t forget that 123 hasn't been around as long as the big players. There are probably many successful photographers on other sites who only recently joined them and won't give a second thought about leaving them after pulling this stunt.
I think fotographer is dead on. We gather here and argue everything from commissions to shutter speeds and tend to assume that we are the microstock world.
There are thousands and maybe millions of microstock contributors who have never heard of MSG and probably another couple of hundred who don't give a dam n or have found the negative vibes too prominent to get involved.
123 knows that. and so does iStock. We're just pissin' in the wind.
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No not really. I'm saying that if it happened at somewhere like Stockfresh, cutcaster or GL where I don't make a payout each month then I probably wouldn't even notice unless I read it here. I think that there are 1000s of people particularly that don't speak English that upload and don't get involved at all in the way the site works and they will just keep on uploading as usual. I'm not in anyway saying that it is right what they are doing but just that they know that it won't make much of an impact by not attacking the top players.
There are a lot of people here on the forum that don't make a payout each month but they still care about being shafted. If anything, the ones that don't make a monthly payout are the ones that can easily leave. Think about it. If they're not making a payout in a month, it's going to take them even longer to reach it so walking out after the change won't have a big impact in their earnings.
Lol and what's English got to do with money? Surely you're not assuming that 80% of contributors are brainless dolts or that anyone who doesn't read or participate in these forums have no clue what they're doing or what's going on. Sorry but that's a little arrogant. I never participated in these forums for years. I read it every now and then but frankly I didn't have the time for it. I still knew exactly what was going on with my money.
And another thing, don’t forget that 123 hasn't been around as long as the big players. There are probably many successful photographers on other sites who only recently joined them and won't give a second thought about leaving them after pulling this stunt.
I think fotographer is dead on. We gather here and argue everything from commissions to shutter speeds and tend to assume that we are the microstock world.
There are thousands and maybe millions of microstock contributors who have never heard of MSG and probably another couple of hundred who don't give a dam n or have found the negative vibes too prominent to get involved.
123 knows that. and so does iStock. We're just pissin' in the wind.
its sad but its a little like that BUT iStock had what we all seen, drop in sales even if they still continue to be number 1 i revenue, 123RF will feel the same I am sure, cuts don't play well for contributors...
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I think fotographer is dead on. We gather here and argue everything from commissions to shutter speeds and tend to assume that we are the microstock world.
There are thousands and maybe millions of microstock contributors who have never heard of MSG and probably another couple of hundred who don't give a dam n or have found the negative vibes too prominent to get involved.
123 knows that. and so does iStock. We're just pissin' in the wind.
lol sorry, I can't help but laugh. What's being a member of MSG got to do with anything? So what if people don't come to MSG? Are you another one saying that people won't notice their royalties being cut because they don't read MSG? Of course they will notice. They don't need MSG to notice and they don't need MSG to make financial decisions. They don't need you to hold their hand for them to delete their port.
Anyway, I'll leave it there. I know what I'm doing and that's all that matters.
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PS: I wonder how many investors (contributors) are following this thread to see who is selling (dropping 123rf) with the thought of buying (contributing)?
Buy low; Sell High. :P
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Anyway, I'll leave it there. I know what I'm doing and that's all that matters.
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Agreed. The whole argument is moot. Just like any religious or political issue, WE KNOW. No amount of argument is going to change that.
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Agreed. The whole argument is moot. Just like any religious or political issue, WE KNOW. No amount of argument is going to change that.
I have changed my opinion on various matters based on some posts here from people I admire, some very nice contributions can really change our opinions unless we are really stubborn
actually, some of them should do consultation for agencies ;D
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lol sorry, I can't help but laugh. What's being a member of MSG got to do with anything? So what if people don't come to MSG? Are you another one saying that people won't notice their royalties being cut because they don't read MSG? Of course they will notice. They don't need MSG to notice and they don't need MSG to make financial decisions. They don't need you to hold their hand for them to delete their port.
Anyway, I'll leave it there. I know what I'm doing and that's all that matters.
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The point is, they miss the opportunity to share in your wisdom. Shame. ;D
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I think fotographer is dead on. We gather here and argue everything from commissions to shutter speeds and tend to assume that we are the microstock world.
There are thousands and maybe millions of microstock contributors who have never heard of MSG and probably another couple of hundred who don't give a dam n or have found the negative vibes too prominent to get involved.
123 knows that. and so does iStock. We're just pissin' in the wind.
Are you another one saying that people won't notice their royalties being cut because they don't read MSG? Of course they will notice.
That's exactly what I'm saying. I have a few sites that I upload to as it is so easy but don't make much money there. I only go to the sites every couple of months to see if I have sold enough to make a payout and just look at total earnings not individual sales. If it wasn't for the fact that I regularly read these forums I would have no idea if they had a commission cut or not. I suspect that there are 100s or 1000s of people that are like that.
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Well, here is their facebook page. Why don't we all go and post how we feel on a forum that is to attract buyers.
https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=123rf&init=quick&tas=0.8522308480236096#!/123rffans (https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=123rf&init=quick&tas=0.8522308480236096#!/123rffans)
It worked against Instagram this week and Cheerios a couple weeks ago.
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I think fotographer is dead on. We gather here and argue everything from commissions to shutter speeds and tend to assume that we are the microstock world.
There are thousands and maybe millions of microstock contributors who have never heard of MSG and probably another couple of hundred who don't give a dam n or have found the negative vibes too prominent to get involved.
123 knows that. and so does iStock. We're just pissin' in the wind.
If the wind's behind us we can offer them something sustainable. ::)
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Anyway, I'll leave it there. I know what I'm doing and that's all that matters.
[/i]
Agreed. The whole argument is moot. Just like any religious or political issue, WE KNOW. No amount of argument is going to change that.
You got me wrong. I didn't say I know what 80% of 123's contributors are going to do like fotografer seems to know. I'm just hopeful that the majority won't hang around because that's a bad move for the industry.
I'm saying I know what I'M doing meaning I've already made my decision to leave. What you all do is your business and besides it won't really effect me because my plan is to leave the micros. I'm already half way there.
So you can all go ahead and screw it up :)
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That's exactly what I'm saying. I have a few sites that I upload to as it is so easy but don't make much money there. I only go to the sites every couple of months to see if I have sold enough to make a payout and just look at total earnings not individual sales. If it wasn't for the fact that I regularly read these forums I would have no idea if they had a commission cut or not. I suspect that there are 100s or 1000s of people that are like that.
Ah I see. But maybe if you didn't read MSG, you wouldn't rely on others here pointing things out and you would check your finances yourself... because you had to ;)
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I didn't say I know what 80% of 123's contributors are going to do like fotografer seems to know.
Nor did I say that I know what 80% of the people will do just that I think it is unrealistic to think that enough people will leave to do the site much if any harm.
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I didn't say I know what 80% of 123's contributors are going to do like fotografer seems to know.
Nor did I say that I know what 80% of the people will do just that I think it is unrealistic to think that enough people will leave to do the site much if any harm.
So nobody said anything ;)
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Again, it's not the "80%" that will make a difference but the 80% of the "20%", who have accounts on the big 4 and who will have their commissions cut.
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That's exactly what I'm saying. I have a few sites that I upload to as it is so easy but don't make much money there. I only go to the sites every couple of months to see if I have sold enough to make a payout and just look at total earnings not individual sales. If it wasn't for the fact that I regularly read these forums I would have no idea if they had a commission cut or not. I suspect that there are 100s or 1000s of people that are like that.
Ah I see. But maybe if you didn't read MSG, you wouldn't rely on others here pointing things out and you would check your finances yourself... because you had to ;)
No, maybe I ought to take more notice but the truth is if they aren't making me enough money to make a difference then I don't waste my time worrying about them. Maybe that isn't being a good business person but then I have never claimed to be a good business person. I went into all this like many of us before just because I liked taking photos and thought it would be fun if I could sell the odd photo. I got in at the right time and have never quite been able to believe my luck that I can actually make decent money for what was a hobby.
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I didn't say I know what 80% of 123's contributors are going to do like fotografer seems to know.
Nor did I say that I know what 80% of the people will do just that I think it is unrealistic to think that enough people will leave to do the site much if any harm.
So nobody said anything ;)
LOL correct :D
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Again, it's not the "80%" that will make a difference but the 80% of the "20%", who have accounts on the big 4 and who will have their commissions cut.
Now that's getting far too mathematical for me :D
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I didn't say I know what 80% of 123's contributors are going to do like fotografer seems to know.
Nor did I say that I know what 80% of the people will do just that I think it is unrealistic to think that enough people will leave to do the site much if any harm.
But you did ;)
"Of course but 80% of contributors won't leave. " See reply #165
It's cool though.
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Again, it's not the "80%" that will make a difference but the 80% of the "20%", who have accounts on the big 4 and who will have their commissions cut.
Yes. That makes perfect sense. If they're at the big 4, they won't put up with the BS from 123.
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I didn't say I know what 80% of 123's contributors are going to do like fotografer seems to know.
Nor did I say that I know what 80% of the people will do just that I think it is unrealistic to think that enough people will leave to do the site much if any harm.
But you did ;)
"Of course but 80% of contributors won't leave. " See reply #165
It's cool though.
Then it was badly worded, It should read not all 80% will leave, only some of them.
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Well, here is their facebook page. Why don't we all go and post how we feel on a forum that is to attract buyers.
https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=123rf&init=quick&tas=0.8522308480236096#!/123rffans (https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=123rf&init=quick&tas=0.8522308480236096#!/123rffans)
I posted on their facebook page. Seeing as they were asking for people's hopes for the new year...
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Well, here is their facebook page. Why don't we all go and post how we feel on a forum that is to attract buyers.
https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=123rf&init=quick&tas=0.8522308480236096#!/123rffans (https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=123rf&init=quick&tas=0.8522308480236096#!/123rffans)
I posted on their facebook page. Seeing as they were asking for people's hopes for the new year...
Well done jsnover. I added my voice too.
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Added my thoughts on 123RF page - good for buyers to see how contributors are going to be treated.
For me enough is enough - a 30 % pay cut down to level 2 for me is just too much.
Port being deleted early next year unless 123RF reconsider.
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Good job guys. Anyone else like to join us?
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yes, a little bit of momentum over there. Go take a look and add your voice...
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I will close some accounts in 2013 because i saw that the more i spread my images the less i get earnings.
depositphoto, 123 and leftovers at Stockxper/Thinkstock will be the first in 2013. Also cancelled subscribers at FT since 8.2012.
Any agencie with lower prices i served to, lowered my income at all.
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Why am I not surprised that they deleted all the comments?
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They're also asking "What are your dreams for the future?" on Twitter. We can comment there because they can't delete the comments. In case 123 deletes the photo, we can use appropriate hashtags so buyers can still find them. I just did that.
https://twitter.com/123rf
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Why am I not surprised that they deleted all the comments?
yep but not mine ::)
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Why am I not surprised that they deleted all the comments?
yep but not mine ::)
I can't see your comment, Luis. There were about 10 or so comments under that image earlier and the only one left there now is "World peace" ;D
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Why am I not surprised that they deleted all the comments?
yep but not mine ::)
I can't see your comment, Luis. There were about 10 or so comments under that image earlier and the only one left there now is "World peace" ;D
I see that one and mine, FB is still updating in this side of the world :D
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Why am I not surprised that they deleted all the comments?
yep but not mine ::)
I can't see your comment, Luis. There were about 10 or so comments under that image earlier and the only one left there now is "World peace" ;D
I see that one and mine, FB is still updating in this side of the world :D
;D
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A true mark of a souless company is one that removes posts from a public forum.
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"Your sales will double this year" ranks up there with "half your sales will come from the last quarter" and "You will not see this prompt again unless you have logged out."
sigh.
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A true mark of a souless company is one that removes posts from a public forum.
indeed
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I see that one and mine, FB is still updating in this side of the world :D
I see the world peace and mine. The comment count still says there are 8, but obviously they aren't interested in advertising their bad behavior to customers
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I see that one and mine, FB is still updating in this side of the world :D
I see the world peace and mine. The comment count still says there are 8, but obviously they aren't interested in advertising their bad behavior to customers
I don't think it can be deleted. It is hidden as spam by the administrator. Only the first one got left and you can not see that your own where hidden to others as spam. Everyone can see from the count they are hiding comments, but they can not see the comments.
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I see that one and mine, FB is still updating in this side of the world :D
I see the world peace and mine. The comment count still says there are 8, but obviously they aren't interested in advertising their bad behavior to customers
I don't think it can be deleted. It is hidden as spam by the administrator. Only the first one got left and you can not see that your own where hidden to others as spam. Everyone can see from the count they are hiding comments, but they can not see the comments.
Pathetic attempt at trying to hide how sly they are >:(
Just reading Facebook's explanation about spam posts:
What happens when a Page admin marks a post as spam?
The post is removed from the Page and isn't visible to anyone except the person who posted it and the poster's friends. Admins of the Page can also view the post by clicking on the Spam filter in the Page's activity log.
https://www.facebook.com/help/173629729359920/ (https://www.facebook.com/help/173629729359920/)
At least all friends can see it. I bet they thought they would be hidden to everyone ;D
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I can't see anything except "world peace"
how sly.
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Same old story.
(http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/88729/100484077/stock-photo-dollar-with-hook-100484077.jpg)
Good thing, its easy to dump the site.
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Asking for our dreams for the future was not a clever move in the circumstances. I wonder how many buyers saw the comments before they were deleted.
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Its bad practice to remove negative comments all together. It shows you have to hide something.
http://outspokenmedia.com/reputation-management/5-reasons-not-to-delete-negative-reviews/ (http://outspokenmedia.com/reputation-management/5-reasons-not-to-delete-negative-reviews/)
You want the conversation to happen at home
It’s a chance to change the conversation
You get to show off your customer service
Gives you street cred
You get feedback you can act on
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I've removed my "like" of their fanpage and removed them also from the favourites of my fanpage.
Well, here is their facebook page. Why don't we all go and post how we feel on a forum that is to attract buyers.
https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=123rf&init=quick&tas=0.8522308480236096#!/123rffans (https://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=123rf&init=quick&tas=0.8522308480236096#!/123rffans)
It worked against Instagram this week and Cheerios a couple weeks ago.
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Looks like lots of people will be going on Santa's naughty list :D
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They removed several of my posts this morning - and now they have blocked me from their site. No loss.
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They removed several of my posts this morning - and now they have blocked me from their site. No loss.
They've blocked you from the 123rf facebook page or do you mean they've blocked you from their micro site?
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Just posted the following on 123RF facebook page, probably wont stay their long, based on the removal of yesterdays posts, but sure feels better after writing it.
My dreams fo the future are that 123RF reconsider their massive royalty cuts for the majority of contributors in 2013. Based on 123Rf's DREAM statment thsi is how I feel:
D for Dedication - completely lacking now I am facing a 30% commission cut.
R for Responsibility - what 123RF is lacking for treating its loyal contributors so badly by slashing their royalty commisions.
E fo Education - hoping that this post will educate buyers as to how badly 123RF is treating its image contributors.
A for Attitude - Extremely bad attitude of 123RF for treating contributors in this way.
M for Motivation - complete lack of motivation for me to continue supplying 123RF with images due to their massive commission cuts.
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They removed several of my posts this morning - and now they have blocked me from their site. No loss.
They've blocked you from the 123rf facebook page or do you mean they've blocked you from their micro site?
From the Facebook page.
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Alex,
Would I be right in guessing that the Past 12 Month Credits Total doesn't update daily, but monthly? As mine haven't budged since the first day, despite sales.
Also, under the FAQ page and the question "3. What's the royalty structure at 123rf?" - How come there is no relevant information, only information on REFERRAL earnings?
Finally, where are you listing the credit levels now, as they have gone from the Earnings captcha page?
Thanks Alex.
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From the 123RF Credit Targets thread:
Hi Everyone,
It has been moved to here: [url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php[/url] ([url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php[/url])
Thank you,
Alex.
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From the 123RF Credit Targets thread:
Hi Everyone,
It has been moved to here: [url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php[/url] ([url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php[/url])
Thank you,
Alex.
Thanks CD123 - is there a logical way to get to that page from the 123RF website?
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Thanks CD123 - is there a logical way to get to that page from the 123RF website?
Pleasure. I could not find an internal link to it. Maybe there is, but it is not anywhere obvious.
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Thanks CD123 - is there a logical way to get to that page from the 123RF website?
A bookmark in your browser :)
If they had their act together this would all have been in place months ago and have a link from the "More" page that has downloads, earnings, etc. And there would be a total credits each month in the earnings chart along with the total $$ and DLs (I just checked and there's nothing new there)
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I would hazard a guess that lowering the royalty percentage for the contributors who don't sell much is a deliberate attempt by 123RF to get those contributors to leave by their own freewill, I've often said that if I were to ever start an agency I would only feature the work of the top 500 and market it as such.
Maybe that's what 123RF is trying to create, who knows, but I doubt threats of leaving by those who are dropping is going to have the effect you want it to, if anything it may be exactly what they want.
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Course if that was the intent we wouldn't be there in the first place with approval ratios in the high 90s 8)
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If thats the case, why would they accept everything you throw at them? They can easily hit the LCV button on small timers and only accept high quality pro stuff
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If thats the case, why would they accept everything you throw at them? They can easily hit the LCV button on small timers and only accept high quality pro stuff
exactly, they aren´t trying to build anything
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From the 123RF Credit Targets thread:
Hi Everyone,
It has been moved to here: [url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php[/url] ([url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php[/url])
Thank you,
Alex.
Thanks CD123 - is there a logical way to get to that page from the 123RF website?
I bet it was moved deliberately so there's no logical way to get to that page ;)
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I would hazard a guess that lowering the royalty percentage for the contributors who don't sell much is a deliberate attempt by 123RF to get those contributors to leave by their own freewill, I've often said that if I were to ever start an agency I would only feature the work of the top 500 and market it as such.
Maybe that's what 123RF is trying to create, who knows, but I doubt threats of leaving by those who are dropping is going to have the effect you want it to, if anything it may be exactly what they want.
123rf has more crap than other site and now you're saying they've suddenly decided to get rid of anyone with 4999 and below yearly downloads? That's a lot of sales to let go don't you think?
And you're correct, 'threats' of leaving won't have much effect on them. Actually leaving might though.
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123rf has more crap than other site and now you're saying they've suddenly decided to get rid of anyone with 4999 and below yearly downloads? That's a lot of sales to let go don't you think?
And you're correct, 'threats' of leaving won't have much effect on them. Actually leaving might though.
I'd have thought SS has the most "crap" as you call it, as more people submit there than anywhere else. And if you read what I wrote you'll see I said they may be trying to get rid of those contributors who's work doesn't sell (therefore no they won't be losing much), there's some mid tier contributors who may take a 5% drop, will they leave - I doubt it very much, and I expect 123RF know this as the royalties they pay are still higher than most.
As I said I'm only guessing, they are many contributors I know of who produce stunning work albeit in low quantity, those are the folks I feel sorry for because they're taking a drop purely because they can't produce enough, anybody that's got a substantial portfolio and yet is getting dropped to 30% really need to look at why there stuff isn't selling - or is that the "crap" you're referring to?
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123rf has more crap than other site and now you're saying they've suddenly decided to get rid of anyone with 4999 and below yearly downloads? That's a lot of sales to let go don't you think?
And you're correct, 'threats' of leaving won't have much effect on them. Actually leaving might though.
I'd have thought SS has the most "crap" as you call it, as more people submit there than anywhere else. And if you read what I wrote you'll see I said they may be trying to get rid of those contributors who's work doesn't sell (therefore no they won't be losing much), there's some mid tier contributors who may take a 5% drop, will they leave - I doubt it very much, and I expect 123RF know this as the royalties they pay are still higher than most.
As I said I'm only guessing, they are many contributors I know of who produce stunning work albeit in low quantity, those are the folks I feel sorry for because they're taking a drop purely because they can't produce enough, anybody that's got a substantial portfolio and yet is getting dropped to 30% really need to look at why there stuff isn't selling - or is that the "crap" you're referring to?
35 percent of nothing is still nothing. Their 21 cents is the lowest in the industry apart from IS. I am getting 25 cents come january, but 25 cents at a low volumes is not good enough. 123 is not SS, they cant pull a stunt like this.
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If thats the case, why would they accept everything you throw at them? They can easily hit the LCV button on small timers and only accept high quality pro stuff
Most microstock sites accept pretty much anything if it passes a technical criteria, to be able to determine whether a file is LCV requires a extremely good knowledge by the reviewer of what sells, by the very nature of microstock those who know what sells are out there uploading and selling it. Do you know of any successful contributors who are reviewers? There's some exceptions on iS because they have different incentives to be an inspector there, but generally speaking those who review are not big sellers.
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35 percent of nothing is still nothing. Their 21 cents is the lowest in the industry apart from IS. I am getting 25 cents come january, but 25 cents at a low volumes is not good enough. 123 is not SS, they cant pull a stunt like this.
Sorry to tell you but I think you'll find they can do what they like. I can understand you're angry and I'm not justifying or advocating anything they do, just giving my theory as to why.
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@RT
I think you are missing the point of what most of the members are trying to tell you here:
1. The issue with 123RF is not only the % they are paying their contributors, but the price of their image packages, which COMBINEDLY will make it one of the worst (if not the worst) paying sites.
2. 123RF will not go to this extreme lengths to get rid of smaller contributors, if there was a much easier and less risky method of just refusing most of their work. It has nothing to do with good or bad the reviewers is/are/should be. It is about the business strategy.
This is why no one so far agrees with your analysis of 123RF's actions.
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RT I do think you are an intelligent guy and sure you add a lot of value to this forum but I don't think showing off or bullying other will ever work out, maybe only for the person who does it, anyway I believe you know why iStock dropped you too back in 2009, don't forget we are all on the same boat, yes yours will take longer to sink ;D
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Thanks Charl, thats exactly what I meant
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...... I expect 123RF know this as the royalties they pay are still higher than most.
If you mean percentage, possibly true, but if you look at royalty $$ for a given file size, they're lower than PhotoDune (often cited as a low price site) and CanStock most of the time. 123rf numbers vary much more, so once in a while I make more for an XXL file there.
Their prices are cheap and their discounting to buyers is very, very heavy. They offer a reasonable volume on low-ish returns, but in no way would I say "higher than most" about their payouts to contributors
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The strategy is clearly to offer the lowest price for images in the industry (trying to pull a SS). They do not want to fork out the 50% portion of loss in revenue the move would cost them. Now they make their contributors carry approximately 60% of the loss and they only 40%. They call this marketing cost, so that we do not feel done in by carrying more of the burden of their new "low price marketing" strategy, than they do themselves. But first we will take the bulk of the financial hit. If it works, with luck, we can recover and earn again what we did (or according to their grand hopes - more) due to volume increase, if not, we hurt even more and we all die with them.
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... If it works, with luck, we can recover and earn again what we did due to volume increase, if not, we hurt even more and we all die with them.
But buyers will go somewhere else - somewhere that we will probably also be. So we don't "die" even if they do. Seems to me there's no loser in that scenario but 123rf.
The only way they could hurt us - indies in general versus the top factories - is if they were amazingly successful and put the other agencies out of business. I'm not worried about that happening as they've been around since 2005 and have been completely unable to lift themselves out of the middle tier. They're not going to do that with this latest "We're the cheapest" move. Fotolia already tried that and they're still trailing the two leaders.
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... If it works, with luck, we can recover and earn again what we did due to volume increase, if not, we hurt even more and we all die with them.
But buyers will go somewhere else - somewhere that we will probably also be. So we don't "die" even if they do. Seems to me there's no loser in that scenario but 123rf.
The only way they could hurt us - indies in general versus the top factories - is if they were amazingly successful and put the other agencies out of business. I'm not worried about that happening as they've been around since 2005 and have been completely unable to lift themselves out of the middle tier. They're not going to do that with this latest "We're the cheapest" move. Fotolia already tried that and they're still trailing the two leaders.
"we die" = those who will stay and their total income from 123RF. I do not say their plan will work. Actually as pointed out about 1000x in this thread - history has proven the opposite, but it is clearly not deterring them to try.
They are bargaining on:
1. The main contributors (large ones bringing currently 80% of revenue in) will stay.
2. Their current customers will stay.
3. They will attract more customers with aggressive marketing as being the cheapest.
4. They will be like SS nr. 2
5. Contributors will not mind getting less % and per image wise because the volumes will be enormous.
About 95% of us disagrees.
Uncertainties:
1. Will enough top contributors stay and/or continue contributing?
2. Will buyers follow a pure price incentive and flock to 123RF? Most marketing experts will tell you that price is just one of many factors determining buyer behaviour. Does 123RF have the rest to make this work? We will see.....
To be continued 2013...... :P
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They are hoping to expand their profit from the low earners who stay, -because they are in financial trouble, or need more profit.
There is an important lesson to be learned, a lesson seen before but often overlooked or misunderstood.
The 50% people are not important, from the agencys view, because the agency can only expand the profit by means of rising sales.
When lowering commisions, they can get extra profit from their contributors.
Like earning on both buyers and sellers.
So they need not to expand their sales, or they cannot.
So the message is: falling sales and profits, the agency cannot expand their sales enough, so they begin to eat the hand that feeds them.
Seen before, at a much larger scale.
It also tells us that they feel large enough to play such a game, or maybe they are desperate enough?
So again we have a case where the agent, begins to parasite more and more and it gets annoying.
And for me, the annoy factor is important.
And Im the kind of guy that deletes instead of leave things up.
Mostly because, I wont have my port undermine me at other places and Im annoyed with the way agencies spread everything out to subcontractors by licencing collections and such.
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If you have an income problem you might take from your suppliers, but you will not lower your sales price, as that will defeat the object of gaining immediate extra income.
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unless you sell more.....
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123rf has more crap than other site and now you're saying they've suddenly decided to get rid of anyone with 4999 and below yearly downloads? That's a lot of sales to let go don't you think?
And you're correct, 'threats' of leaving won't have much effect on them. Actually leaving might though.
I'd have thought SS has the most "crap" as you call it, as more people submit there than anywhere else. And if you read what I wrote you'll see I said they may be trying to get rid of those contributors who's work doesn't sell (therefore no they won't be losing much), there's some mid tier contributors who may take a 5% drop, will they leave - I doubt it very much, and I expect 123RF know this as the royalties they pay are still higher than most.
Judging by your guess, I suspect that you don't contribute to either SS or 123rf. If you did, you'd know that more people submit to SS because they make us more money than any other micro. Despite having the most content, SS doesn't have the most crap because it has a decent review program (tougher than IS at times these days) and 123 basically has no review program, accepting anything and everything that's thrown at them. All my crap that's been rejected at other sites is happily parked at 123rf (I considered leaving them there but decided to offer them exclusively for free on my site). 123 has everyone's crap, even the elite's crap so your guess about 123 trying to build a site with superior content has to be incorrect.
Another thing that supports their lack of interest in offering superior content only, is that they have one of the most pathetic search system in the industry. Apart from the idiotic search algorithms they most likely use, they have that stupid 'fave' program that allows people to 'fave' their crap bringing it to the first page of the search.
And even one more reason why they don't care too much about quality is that they're cheap - the cheapest in the industry - and discount more heavily than any other micro. Surely if they were trying to come off as the micro with the most superior content, they wouldn't have to price it so low and have to offer large discounts in order to sell it.
As I said I'm only guessing, they are many contributors I know of who produce stunning work albeit in low quantity, those are the folks I feel sorry for because they're taking a drop purely because they can't produce enough, anybody that's got a substantial portfolio and yet is getting dropped to 30% really need to look at why there stuff isn't selling - or is that the "crap" you're referring to?
Why are you only focusing on the 30%? What about quality contributors with a large portfolio that are dropping from 50% to anywhere above 30%? They may be having trouble selling enough to get 50% for lots of reasons. They may have entered later in the game meaning their content is taking longer to be seen. As I mentioned above, the search engine at 123 is ridiculous. Didn't lagerreek pull his entire port because of this? Even his niche content couldn't be found. A lot of my best sellers at other sites are not selling at 123 and when I search for them, I can't find them in the sea of crap - that I'm referring to.
Edited to fix my quote
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They are hoping to expand their profit from the low earners who stay, -because they are in financial trouble, or need more profit.
There is an important lesson to be learned, a lesson seen before but often overlooked or misunderstood.
The 50% people are not important, from the agencys view, because the agency can only expand the profit by means of rising sales.
When lowering commisions, they can get extra profit from their contributors.
Like earning on both buyers and sellers.
So they need not to expand their sales, or they cannot.
So the message is: falling sales and profits, the agency cannot expand their sales enough, so they begin to eat the hand that feeds them.
Seen before, at a much larger scale.
It also tells us that they feel large enough to play such a game, or maybe they are desperate enough?
So again we have a case where the agent, begins to parasite more and more and it gets annoying.
And for me, the annoy factor is important.
And Im the kind of guy that deletes instead of leave things up.
Mostly because, I wont have my port undermine me at other places and Im annoyed with the way agencies spread everything out to subcontractors by licencing collections and such.
+1
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@RT
I think you are missing the point of what most of the members are trying to tell you here:
1. The issue with 123RF is not only the % they are paying their contributors, but the price of their image packages, which COMBINEDLY will make it one of the worst (if not the worst) paying sites.
2. 123RF will not go to this extreme lengths to get rid of smaller contributors, if there was a much easier and less risky method of just refusing most of their work. It has nothing to do with good or bad the reviewers is/are/should be. It is about the business strategy.
This is why no one so far agrees with your analysis of 123RF's actions.
Actually I'm fully aware of the point some members here are trying to tell me, they're not selling enough and as a result they are going to drop down. The point most of those members are missing is that - The reason they're going to drop is pure and simply down to them, nobody else, nothing to do with the amount of "crap" on the site and nothing to do with the price of image packages.
And they don't agree with my analysis because it's easier to blame someone/something else than accept the truth.
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They are hoping to expand their profit from the low earners who stay, -because they are in financial trouble, or need more profit.
There is an important lesson to be learned, a lesson seen before but often overlooked or misunderstood.
The 50% people are not important, from the agencys view, because the agency can only expand the profit by means of rising sales.
When lowering commisions, they can get extra profit from their contributors.
Like earning on both buyers and sellers.
So they need not to expand their sales, or they cannot.
So the message is: falling sales and profits, the agency cannot expand their sales enough, so they begin to eat the hand that feeds them.
Seen before, at a much larger scale.
It also tells us that they feel large enough to play such a game, or maybe they are desperate enough?
So again we have a case where the agent, begins to parasite more and more and it gets annoying.
And for me, the annoy factor is important.
And Im the kind of guy that deletes instead of leave things up.
Mostly because, I wont have my port undermine me at other places and Im annoyed with the way agencies spread everything out to subcontractors by licencing collections and such.
+1
exactly, well said, makes total sense, they aren't trying to build the best microstock agency ever with all the top contributors and I can tell you more, many top contributors don't even care or contributed ever there (I could name a few but I believe its not necessary)
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And they don't agree with my analysis because it's easier to blame someone/something else than accept the truth.
now you are reminding me of oxman, who said yesterday that the ones having drops at iStock its actually their fault
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RT I do think you are an intelligent guy and sure you add a lot of value to this forum but I don't think showing off or bullying other will ever work out, maybe only for the person who does it, anyway I believe you know why iStock dropped you too back in 2009, don't forget we are all on the same boat, yes yours will take longer to sink ;D
Umm..... thanks but I think you've got the wrong guy, by that I mean the "dropped by iStock" not the intelligent part :P
And sorry if you think I'm showing off or bullying others (although I haven't got a clue why you'd say that), I work dammed hard to reach the levels I have, I admit I'm easily into the level to retain 50% but that's because I've done the work to get there, as have many others. As I said early I sympathise with anyone who's taking a drop.
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RT I do think you are an intelligent guy and sure you add a lot of value to this forum but I don't think showing off or bullying other will ever work out, maybe only for the person who does it, anyway I believe you know why iStock dropped you too back in 2009, don't forget we are all on the same boat, yes yours will take longer to sink ;D
Umm..... thanks but I think you've got the wrong guy, by that I mean the "dropped by iStock" not the intelligent part :P
And sorry if you think I'm showing off or bullying others (although I haven't got a clue why you'd say that), I work dammed hard to reach the levels I have, I admit I'm easily into the level to retain 50% but that's because I've done the work to get there, as have many others. As I said early I sympathise with anyone who's taking a drop.
congratulations, I had no idea that you have kept the 20% ;D
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Judging by your guess, I suspect that you don't contribute to either SS or 123rf.
Well you're wrong and to be honest I'd have thought it was plainly obvious I contribute to 123RF otherwise why would I be commenting on a thread about them!!
Why are you only focusing on the 30%? What about quality contributors with a large portfolio that are dropping from 50% to anywhere above 30%? They may be having trouble selling enough to get 50% for lots of reasons. They may have entered later in the game meaning their content is taking longer to be seen.
Apart from the obvious oxymoron I believe 123RF are basing it on a 12 month rolling scale so those who joined 'later in the game' have the ability to climb up to a higher percentage irrelevant of historical statistics.
Nothing personal but the rest of what you said just comes over to me as 'sour eggs' towards 123RF in general, read what I've said a couple of posts above, work harder to produce stuff that sells and you'll reap the benefits across all the sites you decide to submit to. If you really feel as bad about 123RF as you seem to I really can't understand why you just don't leave.
Seriously why would you want to stay on a site where you don't like the - content, prices, search results and royalties. I'm genuinely intrigued as to why you're arguing over this, if I felt that bad about a site I'd just leave.
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Quote from: grafix04 on Today at 18:32
Judging by your guess, I suspect that you don't contribute to either SS or 123rf.
Well you're wrong and to be honest I'd have thought it was plainly obvious I contribute to 123RF otherwise why would I be commenting on a thread about them!!
The same reason why IS exclusives comment about micros they don't contribute to. The same reason you just commented about SS without being a contributor there. Why would it be obvious where you contribute? Sorry, I don't keep up with the Joneses and where they contribute. I've been commenting about 123rf since they made their announcement to cut commissions and this is the first time I've noticed a post from you about it.
Quote from: grafix04 on Today at 18:32
Why are you only focusing on the 30%? What about quality contributors with a large portfolio that are dropping from 50% to anywhere above 30%? They may be having trouble selling enough to get 50% for lots of reasons. They may have entered later in the game meaning their content is taking longer to be seen.
Apart from the obvious oxymoron I believe 123RF are basing it on a 12 month rolling scale so those who joined 'later in the game' have the ability to climb up to a higher percentage irrelevant of historical statistics.
Nothing personal but the rest of what you said just comes over to me as 'sour eggs' towards 123RF in general, read what I've said a couple of posts above, work harder to produce stuff that sells and you'll reap the benefits across all the sites you decide to submit to. If you really feel as bad about 123RF as you seem to I really can't understand why you just don't leave.
Seriously why would you want to stay on a site where you don't like the - content, prices, search results and royalties. I'm genuinely intrigued as to why you're arguing over this, if I felt that bad about a site I'd just leave.
Did I not make it clear that I'm not staying?
I’m going to have to 'guess' that you're either not aware of all the issues with 123rf or, like a stray dog, you're happy to receive whatever scraps they give you.
Like most people, I signed up partly because of the praises they were getting and mostly based on their terms and conditions which included the BS 50% that they were supposed to be offering. Nowhere in their contract terms did it say that they will be heavily discounting almost every sale at the contributors' expense. Nowhere on the site did it say that they accept 100% of what is uploaded. Nowhere on the site did it mention that they'll be ripping off their contributors with the 'mistakes' they make in paying us. 'Mistakes' that are mostly impossible to detect unless they're extreme.
Sounds like "sour grapes"? You bet it's sour grapes. Had I known about their now obvious dodgy practices back then, I wouldn't have wasted my time signing up and uploading at all. I stopped uploading over a year ago, even before they made the announcement about the cuts. I'm at level 4 and I know I would have easily made level 5 if I kept uploading in that year. But this isn't about 'how hard I work', this is about a microstock site who boasts about being the cheapest in the industry. This is about a microstock site who makes massive errors in their favor. This is about a site that heavily discounts without our knowledge of the supposed discounts being offered. This is about a site that most probably gets away with ripping us off intentionally and gets away with it due to their lack of transparency. This is about a site that has removed their forums and deletes their member's comments on social media to hide how sly they are. This is about a site that most likely that has banked or spent money that belongs to me.
You bet it's about sour grapes. I have no problem leaving the site. My concern is that there may be too many people like you who will either ignore or put up with their dodgy practices and will help bring down the entire industry (from the contributor's perspective, not the micros). All I can do is voice my concerns to make more people aware so that they make better informed decisions that will be beneficial to them and the industry as a whole – long term.
And please don't assume you produce 'better stuff that sells' than I do. Or that you've worked harder than I have. A little presumptuous and arrogant when you don't know how large or what my portfolio looks like, don't you think?
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grafix
I have carefully read your post.
and will take action.
-
Quite a bit has been said lately about the actual commission paid per credit by 123RF due to the selling of discounted credits, with many people claiming that a large quantity of their credit sales are discounted to some degree or other.
Based on my last couple of hundered of credit sales at 123RF, I have received £200.53 in commissions from 508 credits. This is from 195 actual credit image sales, which should represent an acceptable sample size to base some calculations on.
This equates to an actual average price paid by the buyer of $0.79 per credit (however I have seen much larger discounts on individual sales - many in the 50% plus discount range).
Using the average credit price paid by the buyer we can come up with a $ royalty commision for each image size for each of the proposed new levels at 123RF, something which has been hard to do in the past due to the wide range in actual dollar commissions recived due to the dicounted credits.
The following tabel shows the $amounts paid for the new levels, based on $0.79 per credit purchase price.
123RF Small Medium Large XLarge XXLarge
Image 400x 881x 2607x 3600x 2800x
Dimensions 247 544 1609 2221 4214
Level 1 (30%) $0.24 $0.47 $0.71 $0.95 $1.18
Level 2 (35%) $0.28 $0.55 $0.83 $1.11 $1.38
Level 3 (40%) $0.32 $0.63 $0.95 $1.26 $1.58
Level 4 (45%) $0.36 $0.71 $1.07 $1.42 $1.78
Level 5 (50%) $0.39 $0.79 $1.18 $1.58 $1.97
This can then be compared to Fotolia and Depositphotos:
Fotolia XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 485x 850x 1691x 2360x 4214x
Dimensions 282 565 1124 1568 2800
White Level (20%) $0.20 $0.60 $1.00 $1.40 $1.60
Bronze Level (23%) $0.23 $0.69 $1.15 $1.61 $1.84
Silver Level (25%) $0.25 $0.75 $1.25 $1.75 $2.00
Deposit Photos XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 425x 867x 1735x 2454x 4214x
Dimensions 282 576 1153 1630 2800
Green Level (44%) $0.35 $0.66 $1.32 $1.76 $2.64
Bronze 46% $0.46 $0.92 $1.84 $2.76 $3.68
Silver 48% $0.48 $0.96 $1.92 $2.88 $3.84
Gold 50% $0.50 $1.00 $2.00 $3.00 $4.00
One thing that people do need to take into account is the actual images sizes sold, eg 123RF does not have XS and therefore a 123RF small equates to a Fotolia / DP XSmall. However Large is comparable across all 3 of the sites.
If we take Large as an example even a lowly White Level contributor at Fotolia would earn $1.40, a Green Level contributor at DP would earn $1.76, whereas a Level 1 contributor at 123RF would earn $0.71 (next year), with even a Level 5 Contributor at 50% (next year) only earning $1.18.
123Rf seems to compare better at the small/medium sizes but pays much less from large image size upwards.
Hopefully this goes some way to showing the levels of actual $royalties paid and clearly shows that the actual %commission isn't the be all and end all in determining whether a site pay a good or bad commission.
123Rf has been seen as paying a high commission % up till now, however 50% of a low credit price (especially when discounted further for buyers) equates to a lower royalty payment in $ than many sites paying a lower %.
Food for thought and some discussion.
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Thanks for all the research alids. Very well put together.
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What is missing from that analysis is that 123RF gives massive discounts on our backs. In that regard, your L size sale will rarely earn you $1.18. The average is MUCH smaller and they will never tell you how much smaller in fact. You will never be certain about the money you'll get from them at the end of the month.
I'm at level 5 after this month but that doesn't make them less shady or their business practices easier to accept.
For example, four L sales from my yesterday's income are like this: 1.335, 0.870, 1.320, 0.935.
Yep.
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What is missing from that analysis is that 123RF gives massive discounts on our backs. In that regard, your L size sale will rarely earn you $1.18. The average is MUCH smaller and they will never tell you how much smaller in fact. You will never be certain about the money you'll get from them at the end of the month.
I'm at level 5 after this month but that doesn't make them less shady or their business practices easier to accept.
For example, four L sales from my yesterday's income are like this: 1.335, 0.870, 1.320, 0.935.
Yep.
Tabimura, just to clarify:
The analysis took account of the discounts (based on my last couple of hundred credit sales), the $1.18 per large file at 50% is after the average discount. Large file with no discount should be $1.50.
Looking at your last four large sales, similar credit discounts applied, giving an average of $1.11 for each of your last four.
Thats one of the problems with sites like 123Rf and IS that widely offer discounted credits - makes it very hard for the contributors to see what the actual royalties paid by image size really is, and one of the things I dislike most at 123RF is that the contributors bear the brunt of the discounted credits.
Even though they pay 50%, the discounted credits bring the actual amount paid to the contributor down considerably.
Andy
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Alright, so you made an average of the discounts they pull out of our earnings too. It's better, but still it's based on one's bad luck in getting discounted sales. I could have had four 0.870 sales instead of what I had and the situations would have been worse.
However, for an approximation is ok.
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The same reason you just commented about SS without being a contributor there.
...................
A little presumptuous and arrogant when you don't know how large or what my portfolio looks like, don't you think?
And yet despite me telling you earlier that I am on SS and 123Rf you still make assumptions about me, a bit presumptuous don't you think.
As I said earlier if you don't sell enough at 123RF or don't like the way they sell your stuff then just leave, and if they think they've taken money from you illegally then do something about it instead of just coming here with the 'boo hoo' attitude. I can't have any respect for somebody like you who states they hate a site so much but still has their portfolio there. And if I were a betting man I'd bet that you won't actually leave and that you'll continue to moan on and on about them whilst actually doing nothing.
-
Quite a bit has been said lately about the actual commission paid per credit by 123RF due to the selling of discounted credits, with many people claiming that a large quantity of their credit sales are discounted to some degree or other.
Based on my last couple of hundered of credit sales at 123RF, I have received £200.53 in commissions from 508 credits. This is from 195 actual credit image sales, which should represent an acceptable sample size to base some calculations on.
This equates to an actual average price paid by the buyer of $0.79 per credit (however I have seen much larger discounts on individual sales - many in the 50% plus discount range).
Using the average credit price paid by the buyer we can come up with a $ royalty commision for each image size for each of the proposed new levels at 123RF, something which has been hard to do in the past due to the wide range in actual dollar commissions recived due to the dicounted credits.
The following tabel shows the $amounts paid for the new levels, based on $0.79 per credit purchase price.
123RF Small Medium Large XLarge XXLarge
Image 400x 881x 2607x 3600x 2800x
Dimensions 247 544 1609 2221 4214
Level 1 (30%) $0.24 $0.47 $0.71 $0.95 $1.18
Level 2 (35%) $0.28 $0.55 $0.83 $1.11 $1.38
Level 3 (40%) $0.32 $0.63 $0.95 $1.26 $1.58
Level 4 (45%) $0.36 $0.71 $1.07 $1.42 $1.78
Level 5 (50%) $0.39 $0.79 $1.18 $1.58 $1.97
This can then be compared to Fotolia and Depositphotos:
Fotolia XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 485x 850x 1691x 2360x 4214x
Dimensions 282 565 1124 1568 2800
White Level (20%) $0.20 $0.60 $1.00 $1.40 $1.60
Bronze Level (23%) $0.23 $0.69 $1.15 $1.61 $1.84
Silver Level (25%) $0.25 $0.75 $1.25 $1.75 $2.00
Deposit Photos XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 425x 867x 1735x 2454x 4214x
Dimensions 282 576 1153 1630 2800
Green Level (44%) $0.35 $0.66 $1.32 $1.76 $2.64
Bronze 46% $0.46 $0.92 $1.84 $2.76 $3.68
Silver 48% $0.48 $0.96 $1.92 $2.88 $3.84
Gold 50% $0.50 $1.00 $2.00 $3.00 $4.00
One thing that people do need to take into account is the actual images sizes sold, eg 123RF does not have XS and therefore a 123RF small equates to a Fotolia / DP XSmall. However Large is comparable across all 3 of the sites.
If we take Large as an example even a lowly White Level contributor at Fotolia would earn $1.40, a Green Level contributor at DP would earn $1.76, whereas a Level 1 contributor at 123RF would earn $0.71 (next year), with even a Level 5 Contributor at 50% (next year) only earning $1.18.
123Rf seems to compare better at the small/medium sizes but pays much less from large image size upwards.
Hopefully this goes some way to showing the levels of actual $royalties paid and clearly shows that the actual %commission isn't the be all and end all in determining whether a site pay a good or bad commission.
123Rf has been seen as paying a high commission % up till now, however 50% of a low credit price (especially when discounted further for buyers) equates to a lower royalty payment in $ than many sites paying a lower %.
Food for thought and some discussion.
Andy, great effort putting that together. I'm guessing your intention was to compare the three cheapest micro sites that are leading the race to the bottom?
I appreciate your effort because apart from them ripping us off in the other ways, you've just highlighted another reason for me to leave. Considering DP will give a better return than 123rf will next year, and that I've left DP because they're too cheap and their commissions are too low, what does that say about 123rf?
123 may compare better than FT at the lower levels but we have to remember that not too long ago FT didn't look like that. They've had two commission cuts in the same year and have changed their levels, moving the goalposts for everyone which resulted in many contributors turning against them. So showing that 123rf who is a low volume, relative new site is not much better than FT, who has been around, is a high volume site and a top earner doesn't say much for them apart from saying that 123 has a real nerve thinking they can get away with acting as bad as the big boys without seeing any consequences.
Thanks again.
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grafix
I have carefully read your post.
and will take action.
Good on you 8)
-
The same reason you just commented about SS without being a contributor there.
...................
A little presumptuous and arrogant when you don't know how large or what my portfolio looks like, don't you think?
And yet despite me telling you earlier that I am on SS and 123Rf you still make assumptions about me, a bit presumptuous don't you think.
Please point out where you told me about SS. I even quoted you where you only mentioned 123rf. Were you drunk or on something at the time or are you drunk or on something now? Did you miss the word 'either'? For an English man, I expect more from you, given that English isn't even my first language.
As I said earlier if you don't sell enough at 123RF or don't like the way they sell your stuff then just leave, and if they think they've taken money from you illegally then do something about it instead of just coming here with the 'boo hoo' attitude. I can't have any respect for somebody like you who states they hate a site so much but still has their portfolio there. And if I were a betting man I'd bet that you won't actually leave and that you'll continue to moan on and on about them whilst actually doing nothing.
Why don't you put the drink down, go back over my posts (and others) and read them again before you continue making a fool of yourself. Do you have trouble understanding the issues that have been raised many times by myself and others or are you just a stubborn fool who sticks to his guns because he doesn't like to admit he's wrong? You don’t need to answer that, it's a rhetorical question ;)
There is no 'boo hoo attitude' from me. I’m not the one who's been here more than half a decade 'boo hooing'. I only found out recently about them ripping us off and I AM doing something about it. This is it. If you're happy to be robbed, good luck to you. I'm here discussing with others the issues about their errors in our pay which they've just admitted to. I've already said that due to their lack of transparency it's impossible to prove and I'm discussing it to make people aware of the issue. I think the 'boo hoo attitude' (very grown up by the way) is with you. I think you're the one 'boo hooing' over us raising the issue because you're sh!t scared people will walk and 123rf will sink like IS is sinking now. Despite there being a possibility of them robbing you (intentionally or by error), you seem to be upset because it's difficult for YOU to walk away after 'all the hard work' you've put in, am I correct? I was clever enough to work on a plan a year ago, replacing 123rf’s income (and others) before I leave. It looks like you're just going to have to stay there getting the rug pulled out from under you for some time knowing they're ripping you off ;)
You're also a bit of hypocrite. I recall some months ago you 'boo hooing' over Veer before you left them. Aside from a general comment about their recent dealings with Alamy in an unrelated thread, you didn't get a peep from me before I pull my port from Veer. And yet here we are, we just found out about 123rf making numerous errors in our payments, which is a very serious issue and you're complaining that we're complaining?
As for my portfolio still being at 123rf, I said when they made the announcement that I will be deleting my port when the changes go through in January. It's not January yet. Deleting them individually takes time and I and others have asked them for an easier way to delete the entire portfolio. We have not heard back yet. If they don't give us this option, I'll delete them during the holidays when things are quiet and I have more time on my hands. So if you were a betting man, you would lose. But clearly you're okay with losing since you're happy to stay at 123rf accepting their rock bottom commissions, their BS discounting and their constant errors (or possible theft – who knows). As I've mentioned in many threads, I've already left a good number of micro sites without reducing my total income and 123 is next on the list.
Now I’m going to go back to skipping over your posts because they're as crappy as 123rf's gallery. Usually your babble is contained in the IS threads which I've learned to tune out since it's full of the same grumpy old men bickering about the same issues over and over again for years. It's a shame your babble had to spill into and ruin this thread. You've been talking the same 'shite' since the Talkmicro days. You bored back then and you're still doing it. I have never had time for you, let alone respect.
-
Quite a bit has been said lately about the actual commission paid per credit by 123RF due to the selling of discounted credits, with many people claiming that a large quantity of their credit sales are discounted to some degree or other.
Based on my last couple of hundered of credit sales at 123RF, I have received £200.53 in commissions from 508 credits. This is from 195 actual credit image sales, which should represent an acceptable sample size to base some calculations on.
This equates to an actual average price paid by the buyer of $0.79 per credit (however I have seen much larger discounts on individual sales - many in the 50% plus discount range).
Using the average credit price paid by the buyer we can come up with a $ royalty commision for each image size for each of the proposed new levels at 123RF, something which has been hard to do in the past due to the wide range in actual dollar commissions recived due to the dicounted credits.
The following tabel shows the $amounts paid for the new levels, based on $0.79 per credit purchase price.
123RF Small Medium Large XLarge XXLarge
Image 400x 881x 2607x 3600x 2800x
Dimensions 247 544 1609 2221 4214
Level 1 (30%) $0.24 $0.47 $0.71 $0.95 $1.18
Level 2 (35%) $0.28 $0.55 $0.83 $1.11 $1.38
Level 3 (40%) $0.32 $0.63 $0.95 $1.26 $1.58
Level 4 (45%) $0.36 $0.71 $1.07 $1.42 $1.78
Level 5 (50%) $0.39 $0.79 $1.18 $1.58 $1.97
This can then be compared to Fotolia and Depositphotos:
Fotolia XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 485x 850x 1691x 2360x 4214x
Dimensions 282 565 1124 1568 2800
White Level (20%) $0.20 $0.60 $1.00 $1.40 $1.60
Bronze Level (23%) $0.23 $0.69 $1.15 $1.61 $1.84
Silver Level (25%) $0.25 $0.75 $1.25 $1.75 $2.00
Deposit Photos XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 425x 867x 1735x 2454x 4214x
Dimensions 282 576 1153 1630 2800
Green Level (44%) $0.35 $0.66 $1.32 $1.76 $2.64
Bronze 46% $0.46 $0.92 $1.84 $2.76 $3.68
Silver 48% $0.48 $0.96 $1.92 $2.88 $3.84
Gold 50% $0.50 $1.00 $2.00 $3.00 $4.00
One thing that people do need to take into account is the actual images sizes sold, eg 123RF does not have XS and therefore a 123RF small equates to a Fotolia / DP XSmall. However Large is comparable across all 3 of the sites.
If we take Large as an example even a lowly White Level contributor at Fotolia would earn $1.40, a Green Level contributor at DP would earn $1.76, whereas a Level 1 contributor at 123RF would earn $0.71 (next year), with even a Level 5 Contributor at 50% (next year) only earning $1.18.
123Rf seems to compare better at the small/medium sizes but pays much less from large image size upwards.
Hopefully this goes some way to showing the levels of actual $royalties paid and clearly shows that the actual %commission isn't the be all and end all in determining whether a site pay a good or bad commission.
123Rf has been seen as paying a high commission % up till now, however 50% of a low credit price (especially when discounted further for buyers) equates to a lower royalty payment in $ than many sites paying a lower %.
Food for thought and some discussion.
Andy, great effort putting that together. I'm guessing your intention was to compare the three cheapest micro sites that are leading the race to the bottom?
I appreciate your effort because apart from them ripping us off in the other ways, you've just highlighted another reason for me to leave. Considering DP will give a better return than 123rf will next year, and that I've left DP because they're too cheap and their commissions are too low, what does that say about 123rf?
123 may compare better than FT at the lower levels but we have to remember that not too long ago FT didn't look like that. They've had two commission cuts in the same year and have changed their levels, moving the goalposts for everyone which resulted in many contributors turning against them. So showing that 123rf who is a low volume, relative new site is not much better than FT, who has been around, is a high volume site and a top earner doesn't say much for them apart from saying that 123 has a real nerve thinking they can get away with acting as bad as the big boys without seeing any consequences.
Thanks again.
The main reason for comparing against Fotolia and DP was due to the previous cuts at FT and the previous concerns over low prices and commissions at DP.
However when 123RF plan to drop their commissions for most, with even a large download for a level 5 contributor paying less than an entry level contributor would receive at both Fotolia and DP, then the comparisons should be made and people should take note. Plus anyone below level 5 is going to get shafted even more.
With the comparisons put side by side, each individual contributor can make a personal decison based on their port size, sales, level next year and expectations for 123RF. Until I carried out the comparison I had assumed that DP would be lower, but it seems that 123Rf are lower now and will be even lower for the majority next year.
My port (although small - only 600 images) will be getting deleted in the new year. With their low image credit prices, discounted credit pack prices I think they are heading the race to the bottom more so than others and dont really have the volume of sales to pull stunts like this.
-
Quite a bit has been said lately about the actual commission paid per credit by 123RF due to the selling of discounted credits, with many people claiming that a large quantity of their credit sales are discounted to some degree or other.
Based on my last couple of hundered of credit sales at 123RF, I have received £200.53 in commissions from 508 credits. This is from 195 actual credit image sales, which should represent an acceptable sample size to base some calculations on.
This equates to an actual average price paid by the buyer of $0.79 per credit (however I have seen much larger discounts on individual sales - many in the 50% plus discount range).
Using the average credit price paid by the buyer we can come up with a $ royalty commision for each image size for each of the proposed new levels at 123RF, something which has been hard to do in the past due to the wide range in actual dollar commissions recived due to the dicounted credits.
The following tabel shows the $amounts paid for the new levels, based on $0.79 per credit purchase price.
123RF Small Medium Large XLarge XXLarge
Image 400x 881x 2607x 3600x 2800x
Dimensions 247 544 1609 2221 4214
Level 1 (30%) $0.24 $0.47 $0.71 $0.95 $1.18
Level 2 (35%) $0.28 $0.55 $0.83 $1.11 $1.38
Level 3 (40%) $0.32 $0.63 $0.95 $1.26 $1.58
Level 4 (45%) $0.36 $0.71 $1.07 $1.42 $1.78
Level 5 (50%) $0.39 $0.79 $1.18 $1.58 $1.97
This can then be compared to Fotolia and Depositphotos:
Fotolia XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 485x 850x 1691x 2360x 4214x
Dimensions 282 565 1124 1568 2800
White Level (20%) $0.20 $0.60 $1.00 $1.40 $1.60
Bronze Level (23%) $0.23 $0.69 $1.15 $1.61 $1.84
Silver Level (25%) $0.25 $0.75 $1.25 $1.75 $2.00
Deposit Photos XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 425x 867x 1735x 2454x 4214x
Dimensions 282 576 1153 1630 2800
Green Level (44%) $0.35 $0.66 $1.32 $1.76 $2.64
Bronze 46% $0.46 $0.92 $1.84 $2.76 $3.68
Silver 48% $0.48 $0.96 $1.92 $2.88 $3.84
Gold 50% $0.50 $1.00 $2.00 $3.00 $4.00
One thing that people do need to take into account is the actual images sizes sold, eg 123RF does not have XS and therefore a 123RF small equates to a Fotolia / DP XSmall. However Large is comparable across all 3 of the sites.
If we take Large as an example even a lowly White Level contributor at Fotolia would earn $1.40, a Green Level contributor at DP would earn $1.76, whereas a Level 1 contributor at 123RF would earn $0.71 (next year), with even a Level 5 Contributor at 50% (next year) only earning $1.18.
123Rf seems to compare better at the small/medium sizes but pays much less from large image size upwards.
Hopefully this goes some way to showing the levels of actual $royalties paid and clearly shows that the actual %commission isn't the be all and end all in determining whether a site pay a good or bad commission.
123Rf has been seen as paying a high commission % up till now, however 50% of a low credit price (especially when discounted further for buyers) equates to a lower royalty payment in $ than many sites paying a lower %.
Food for thought and some discussion.
Andy, great effort putting that together. I'm guessing your intention was to compare the three cheapest micro sites that are leading the race to the bottom?
I appreciate your effort because apart from them ripping us off in the other ways, you've just highlighted another reason for me to leave. Considering DP will give a better return than 123rf will next year, and that I've left DP because they're too cheap and their commissions are too low, what does that say about 123rf?
123 may compare better than FT at the lower levels but we have to remember that not too long ago FT didn't look like that. They've had two commission cuts in the same year and have changed their levels, moving the goalposts for everyone which resulted in many contributors turning against them. So showing that 123rf who is a low volume, relative new site is not much better than FT, who has been around, is a high volume site and a top earner doesn't say much for them apart from saying that 123 has a real nerve thinking they can get away with acting as bad as the big boys without seeing any consequences.
Thanks again.
The main reason for comparing against Fotolia and DP was due to the previous cuts at FT and the previous concerns over low prices and commissions at DP.
However when 123RF plan to drop their commissions for most, with even a large download for a level 5 contributor paying less than an entry level contributor would receive at both Fotolia and DP, then the comparisons should be made and people should take note. Plus anyone below level 5 is going to get shafted even more.
With the comparisons put side by side, each individual contributor can make a personal decison based on their port size, sales, level next year and expectations for 123RF. Until I carried out the comparison I had assumed that DP would be lower, but it seems that 123Rf are lower now and will be even lower for the majority next year.
My port (although small - only 600 images) will be getting deleted in the new year. With their low image credit prices, discounted credit pack prices I think they are heading the race to the bottom more so than others and dont really have the volume of sales to pull stunts like this.
Thanks for the explanation and you're right, I made the assumption that DP was worse too. Actually, I'm not so sure that they're not because they too began discounting some time ago. I'm not sure if it was a one off incident or if it became a regular thing. I didn't hang around to find out.
123 won't go unpunished. Both FT and IS are losing ground after their commission cuts so why anyone would believe that 123 won't be effected by this has got me beat.
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grafix04 & RT - just knock it off you 2 - get the Christmas spirit! ;D
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My port (although small - only 600 images) will be getting deleted in the new year. With their low image credit prices, discounted credit pack prices I think they are heading the race to the bottom more so than others and dont really have the volume of sales to pull stunts like this.
This is the root of the thing. IS @ 15% and 10% of the port makes double 123 @ 50%. No anger, no worrying about "fairness", they simply won't be worth the effort.
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grafix04 & RT - just knock it off you 2 - get the Christmas spirit! ;D
He hasn't ruined mine, don't worry. And neither has 123rf I couldn't give a hoot about either ;D
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Now I’m going to go back to skipping over your posts because they're as crappy as 123rf's gallery. Usually your babble is contained in the IS threads which I've learned to tune out since it's full of the same grumpy old men bickering about the same issues over and over again for years. It's a shame your babble had to spill into and ruin this thread. You've been talking the same 'shite' since the Talkmicro days. You bored back then and you're still doing it. I have never had time for you, let alone respect.
Wow a minute ago you claimed to not know anything about me and now it appears you've been stalking me for years, seriously I have no idea who you are and don't really care, I've tried to be polite throughout this thread but you're trying to drag it down to a petty insult match, I'm not getting involved in that.
I gave my opinion which is what these forums are meant to be for whether you like it or not, if you don't agree with me fine but I'm not going to enter into a childish insult match with you. Do what you what about 123RF it won't effect me.
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I work dammed hard to reach the levels I have, I admit I'm easily into the level to retain 50% but that's because I've done the work to get there,..
You've done the work to get to goalposts which were created years after many joined. When the goalposts are moved again and if you don't make the level you desire, will you say it was because you didn't work hard enough?
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grafix04 & RT - just knock it off you 2 - get the Christmas spirit! ;D
Sorry I should have known better than to offer an opinion, I just don't understand some people who like to moan about a site but do nothing about it, and I really don't understand why people like him are always looking to blame others for being a failure. I'll ignore him from now on. Have a good Christmas
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grafix04 & RT - just knock it off you 2 - get the Christmas spirit! ;D
Sorry I should have known better than to offer an opinion, I just don't understand some people who like to moan about a site but do nothing about it, and I really don't understand why people like him are always looking to blame others for being a failure. I'll ignore him from now on. Have a good Christmas
Right.
You two guys are both competent people. Its a waste to argue against eachother, and especially on such a personal level.
There are people out there (agencies) who love when "the peasants" are divided. Thats why they play all the tricks with commisions for someone and not for others.
Divide and conquer.
a classic. Have you noticed how many of their efforts have to do with exactly that? In the current sutuation it is because SOME stays at 50% whereas others do not, that cause the disagreement between two of our members.
"El pueblo unido jamais sera vencido!
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I work dammed hard to reach the levels I have, I admit I'm easily into the level to retain 50% but that's because I've done the work to get there,..
You've done the work to get to goalposts which were created years after many joined. When the goalposts are moved again and if you don't make the level you desire, will you say it was because you didn't work hard enough?
That's a very good question (makes a pleasant change). I'll give you my answer, sorry if it waffles on a bit.
FT changed the goalposts a few years ago and I was one of those who "suffered" (I don't actually think I've suffered) because they were one of the last sites I joined, I sell more there and have a higher ranking number than some others I know who joined them earlier on but sell very little, and yet that person could have a better badge. To be honest though I couldn't care less about which shiny little badge I have next to my name, it's the money I'm interested in which at the moment isn't affected.
If I continue to upload high quality work to FT but they decide to change their ranking just before I get to the next level, then no I wouldn't say it was down to me.
123RF scale is based on the previous 12 months credits, if I stop uploading there and next year I take a drop, then yes absolutely I'd blame myself for not doing the hard work
If you read back through what I've written earlier in this thread you'll see that I've mentioned I feel sorry for anyone who does regularly produce quality work albeit not in a high enough quantity to have maintained their 50%, however there's a few here that have moaned about dropping percentages but have then mentioned how they haven't uploaded there for the last year, to me they are just plain stupid, anybody who knows anything about microstock knows that in order to succeed you need to 'feed the beast', if you don't and you suffer the consequences, it is my opinion that you only have one person to blame.
I think the big difference here is that 123RF are basing their royalty rates on an ongoing sales record, at the moment they are the only site doing so, but I wouldn't be surprised to see others follow suit, 123RF did give us notice about this and we all had the opportunity to do something about it, some chose to do nothing and now are moaning about it - some tried and yet are going to suffer, I feel sorry for the latter group.
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Now I’m going to go back to skipping over your posts because they're as crappy as 123rf's gallery. Usually your babble is contained in the IS threads which I've learned to tune out since it's full of the same grumpy old men bickering about the same issues over and over again for years. It's a shame your babble had to spill into and ruin this thread. You've been talking the same 'shite' since the Talkmicro days. You bored back then and you're still doing it. I have never had time for you, let alone respect.
Wow a minute ago you claimed to not know anything about me and now it appears you've been stalking me for years, seriously I have no idea who you are and don't really care, I've tried to be polite throughout this thread but you're trying to drag it down to a petty insult match, I'm not getting involved in that.
I gave my opinion which is what these forums are meant to be for whether you like it or not, if you don't agree with me fine but I'm not going to enter into a childish insult match with you. Do what you what about 123RF it won't effect me.
Stalking you for years? Lol, get off it will you, what's wrong with you? Try ignoring you for years. Which is why I have no idea where you contribute these days.
Lol, you tried to be polite? I think it's pretty clear that it was you that began with the arrogant remarks and the insults.
And thanks for giving me permission to 'do what I what want about 123rf' I was obviously at a standstill waiting for your permission to make a move :)
But in the spirit of Christmas (and to make CD happy), Merry Christmas! ;D
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however there's a few here that have moaned about dropping percentages but have then mentioned how they haven't uploaded there for the last year, to me they are just plain stupid, anybody who knows anything about microstock knows that in order to succeed you need to 'feed the beast', if you don't and you suffer the consequences, it is my opinion that you only have one person to blame.
Is this you trying your hardest to be polite again? ;D
Lol, suffer what consequences? I dropped six microstock sites and stopped uploading to two in the last year and have just about doubled my income.
I have not suffered anything but you said you have and you will again with 123rf. So who's stupid?
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Come on guys. Read my above post.
And then let us not forget, that we are only people, sitting alone there out in the dark, and we are all trying to press some meagre dollars out of the stones.
There are others at the other side of the ridge, who stand there with their baskets and simply collect all the ore that automatically falls into it.
When you are alone out there in the dark, it is natural to be an oppertunist, and try to collect, even when the share is lousy.
We have this forum to bring forward all the lousiness and abuse, not to demean eachother.
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No other way now - CHILDREN! SHUT THE F*CK UP (OR NO PRESENTS)!!! :o ::)
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Come on guys. Read my above post.
And then let us not forget, that we are only people, sitting alone there out in the dark, and we are all trying to press some meagre dollars out of the stones.
There are others at the other side of the ridge, who stand there with their baskets and simply collect all the ore that automatically falls into it.
When you are alone out there in the dark, it is natural to be an oppertunist, and try to collect, even when the share is lousy.
We have this forum to bring forward all the lousiness and abuse, not to demean eachother.
I did and I was just about to reply to yours, but then he called me stupid so I replied to him instead ;D
But I agree with you. I'm not here to demean others (unlike some). I wasn't asking anyone to leave 123rf. In another thread I even recommended that people stay put until they find alternative sources of income.
Leaving 123rf won't have any effect on me but I'm still here to voice my concerns to support those it will have an effect on. RT just doesn't seem to get it. There are others who have reached level 4 or 5 but have still offered their support and shown their concern about the site. People like Jo Ann, Lisa and fotografer have stated that they'll sit pretty on the site but have still expressed their disapproval of what 123rf is doing and without knocking people down and getting personal.
I know what he's like. He can't help himself so either this continues on and we call either other stupid like children or I go back to ignoring him so I can focus on the real issue. I'm not interested in his opinions when they're jumbled in a bunch of insults so he'll be ignored... Christmas or not :)
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Is this you trying your hardest to be polite again? ;D
Lol, suffer what consequences? I dropped six microstock sites and stopped uploading to two in the last year and have just about doubled my income.
Sorry I'm trying to be polite, but if you can think of a better word for someone who describes something they really don't like but they continue to do it anyway by all means let me know and I'll use that word.
I have not suffered anything but you said you have and you will again with 123rf. So who's stupid?
Again you've misquoted me, I'll forgive you because you mentioned earlier that English isn't your native tongue, I put suffered in "" which means I'm using that term because I couldn't think of a better one but I don't really mean it, I did also clarify that in the (). Just to be totally clear for you I am not going to suffer from the changes on 123RF
To be factual though you have suffered because you've mentioned your percentages are going to drop.
Glad to hear your incomes nearly doubled by dropping six microstock sites, it does however reinforce my question and really confuse me as to why you're battling on here about 123RF instead of just dropping them, and I'm biting my tongue not to call you ........... :P
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I once was a school teacher who dealt with unruly children.
It seems to be my lot in life.
You are BOTH competent people. You are being deterred.
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No other way now - CHILDREN! SHUT THE F*CK UP (OR NO PRESENTS)!!! :o ::)
With all due respect we're just having a bit of mild banter, no rude words and with the odd serious question (certainly on my behalf) in the middle, I really do want to know why he and others who are so unhappy at 123RF just don't leave. So far you're the only one who's resorted to swearing.
Many people have expressed what I would consider as serious reasons why I wouldn't want to stay at a site, and yet they still are!
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No other way now - CHILDREN! SHUT THE F*CK UP (OR NO PRESENTS)!!! :o ::)
With all due respect we're just having a bit of mild banter, no rude words and with the odd serious question (certainly on my behalf) in the middle, I really do want to know why he and others who are so unhappy at 123RF just don't leave. So far you're the only one who's resorted to swearing.
Many people have expressed what I would consider as serious reasons why I wouldn't want to stay at a site, and yet they still are!
That was said tongue in cheek (I will not take your present away without due legal notice ;)).
If you read this thread from the start + this one
http://www.microstockgroup.com/123royaltyfree-com/123rf-royalty-cuts-what-will-you-do/ (http://www.microstockgroup.com/123royaltyfree-com/123rf-royalty-cuts-what-will-you-do/) it will answer a lot of your questions.
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That was said tongue in cheek (I will not take your present away without due legal notice ;)).
That's good thanks, I'm still wrapping yours!
I'm going to pull out of this thread now, I've stopped work for Christmas and only wanted to have a bit of involvement on the forum, I got involved with grafix04 because he answered my post, but now he keeps twisting my words and misquoting me so much that it's getting boring for all concerned. Add to this we appear to have a 'history' although I have no idea who he/she is.
FTR as he's twisted my reply above (once again) as I've said on numerous occasions in this thread I'm sorry to hear some are taking a drop and I've never said I support what 123RF are doing, and no doubt he'll twist this but if you read back my posts you'll see what I've said for yourself.
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Quite a bit has been said lately about the actual commission paid per credit by 123RF due to the selling of discounted credits, with many people claiming that a large quantity of their credit sales are discounted to some degree or other.
Based on my last couple of hundered of credit sales at 123RF, I have received £200.53 in commissions from 508 credits. This is from 195 actual credit image sales, which should represent an acceptable sample size to base some calculations on.
This equates to an actual average price paid by the buyer of $0.79 per credit (however I have seen much larger discounts on individual sales - many in the 50% plus discount range).
Using the average credit price paid by the buyer we can come up with a $ royalty commision for each image size for each of the proposed new levels at 123RF, something which has been hard to do in the past due to the wide range in actual dollar commissions recived due to the dicounted credits.
The following tabel shows the $amounts paid for the new levels, based on $0.79 per credit purchase price.
123RF Small Medium Large XLarge XXLarge
Image 400x 881x 2607x 3600x 2800x
Dimensions 247 544 1609 2221 4214
Level 1 (30%) $0.24 $0.47 $0.71 $0.95 $1.18
Level 2 (35%) $0.28 $0.55 $0.83 $1.11 $1.38
Level 3 (40%) $0.32 $0.63 $0.95 $1.26 $1.58
Level 4 (45%) $0.36 $0.71 $1.07 $1.42 $1.78
Level 5 (50%) $0.39 $0.79 $1.18 $1.58 $1.97
This can then be compared to Fotolia and Depositphotos:
Fotolia XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 485x 850x 1691x 2360x 4214x
Dimensions 282 565 1124 1568 2800
White Level (20%) $0.20 $0.60 $1.00 $1.40 $1.60
Bronze Level (23%) $0.23 $0.69 $1.15 $1.61 $1.84
Silver Level (25%) $0.25 $0.75 $1.25 $1.75 $2.00
Deposit Photos XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 425x 867x 1735x 2454x 4214x
Dimensions 282 576 1153 1630 2800
Green Level (44%) $0.35 $0.66 $1.32 $1.76 $2.64
Bronze 46% $0.46 $0.92 $1.84 $2.76 $3.68
Silver 48% $0.48 $0.96 $1.92 $2.88 $3.84
Gold 50% $0.50 $1.00 $2.00 $3.00 $4.00
One thing that people do need to take into account is the actual images sizes sold, eg 123RF does not have XS and therefore a 123RF small equates to a Fotolia / DP XSmall. However Large is comparable across all 3 of the sites.
If we take Large as an example even a lowly White Level contributor at Fotolia would earn $1.40, a Green Level contributor at DP would earn $1.76, whereas a Level 1 contributor at 123RF would earn $0.71 (next year), with even a Level 5 Contributor at 50% (next year) only earning $1.18.
123Rf seems to compare better at the small/medium sizes but pays much less from large image size upwards.
Hopefully this goes some way to showing the levels of actual $royalties paid and clearly shows that the actual %commission isn't the be all and end all in determining whether a site pay a good or bad commission.
123Rf has been seen as paying a high commission % up till now, however 50% of a low credit price (especially when discounted further for buyers) equates to a lower royalty payment in $ than many sites paying a lower %.
Food for thought and some discussion.
GREAT POST .. Thanks for the chart and the effort. Is there a way we could put a sticky on this?
... @Leaf
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That was said tongue in cheek (I will not take your present away without due legal notice ;)).
That's good thanks, I'm still wrapping yours!
I'm going to pull out of this thread now, I've stopped work for Christmas and only wanted to have a bit of involvement on the forum, I got involved with grafix04 because he answered my post, but now he keeps twisting my words and misquoting me so much that it's getting boring for all concerned. Add to this we appear to have a 'history' although I have no idea who he/she is.
FTR as he's twisted my reply above (once again) as I've said on numerous occasions in this thread I'm sorry to hear some are taking a drop and I've never said I support what 123RF are doing, and no doubt he'll twist this but if you read back my posts you'll see what I've said for yourself.
If you read the other thread I referred you to, you will find some quite logical reasons why some people are very unhappy with 123RF, but can not afford to leave them. It is unfortunately not just an open and shut case of being unhappy, your out, happy, you stay.
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I took a drop of 50% to 30%
Which means they are going to take a 70% drop.
Then they can have fun with 70% of nothing.
add to that sleazyness and BS.
and balance the scales with a few 100 dollars, it will be a pleasure....
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That was said tongue in cheek (I will not take your present away without due legal notice ;)).
That's good thanks, I'm still wrapping yours!
I'm going to pull out of this thread now, I've stopped work for Christmas and only wanted to have a bit of involvement on the forum, I got involved with grafix04 because he answered my post, but now he keeps twisting my words and misquoting me so much that it's getting boring for all concerned. Add to this we appear to have a 'history' although I have no idea who he/she is.
FTR as he's twisted my reply above (once again) as I've said on numerous occasions in this thread I'm sorry to hear some are taking a drop and I've never said I support what 123RF are doing, and no doubt he'll twist this but if you read back my posts you'll see what I've said for yourself.
If you read the other thread I referred you to, you will find some quite logical reasons why some people are very unhappy with 123RF, but can not afford to leave them. It is unfortunately not just an open and shut case of being unhappy, your out, happy, you stay.
This is the part where he reads it but pretends not to read it, in order to not have to admit he's wrong :D
I did ignore him but it's not much point when people quote him.
The 'history' bit made me laugh. Maybe he thinks I'm his ex wife or something ::) There is no history apart from him being annoying and rude to people years ago and me ignoring him years ago. That's as far as the history goes. It's not as if I've spent much time in the forums.
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That was said tongue in cheek (I will not take your present away without due legal notice ;)).
That's good thanks, I'm still wrapping yours!
I'm going to pull out of this thread now, I've stopped work for Christmas and only wanted to have a bit of involvement on the forum, I got involved with grafix04 because he answered my post, but now he keeps twisting my words and misquoting me so much that it's getting boring for all concerned. Add to this we appear to have a 'history' although I have no idea who he/she is.
FTR as he's twisted my reply above (once again) as I've said on numerous occasions in this thread I'm sorry to hear some are taking a drop and I've never said I support what 123RF are doing, and no doubt he'll twist this but if you read back my posts you'll see what I've said for yourself.
If you read the other thread I referred you to, you will find some quite logical reasons why some people are very unhappy with 123RF, but can not afford to leave them. It is unfortunately not just an open and shut case of being unhappy, your out, happy, you stay.
This is the part where he reads it but pretends not to read it, in order to not have to admit he's wrong :D
I did ignore him but it's not much point when people quote him.
The 'history' bit made me laugh. Maybe he thinks I'm his ex wife or something ::) There is no history apart from him being annoying and rude to people years ago and me ignoring him years ago. That's as far as the history goes. It's not as if I've spent much time in the forums.
It sure seems like a lot. :-\
:)
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It sure seems like a lot. :-\
:)
Why would you say that? Have you seen me here over the years?
I used to go into Talkmicro when I first started out in micro. This forum I only used to read now and then when something big went down but I wasn't a member. What got me interested here recently was PicturEngine a while ago. I thought that was going to be the sites that saves the day but then it went quiet and I disappeared for more than six months till it resurfaced again at Christmas Black Friday - only to disappoint us all and disappear again. That's really why I'm here. That's what will effect me. That or something like that so I can build, promote and eventually sell stock exclusively via my own site. Plus earn from other avenues. The issue at 123rf also interests me because I've been suspicious about them for a while but there hasn't been anything concrete enough to make me leave - till now.
This commission restructure isn't too hard to take at level 4. It's the commission cuts along with the rest of it that makes it not worthwhile. These recent 'errors' in our pay has me shocked. And what's more shocking is that not too many people seem to be fussed over it.
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You know what, F--k it. I remember now why I never bothered to type in here.
Merry F--king Christmas
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Joy to the word.
All the boys and girls.
Joy to the fishes in the deep blue see.
Joy to you and me!
Amen.
(PS Just had to get the spirit of the season back into the thread again ;))
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You know what, F--k it. I remember now why I never bothered to type in here.
Merry F--king Christmas
Please Grafix.. Stay. You say important things.
Relax, have christmas ,eat a couple of turkeys and then come back.
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...123RF did give us notice about this and we all had the opportunity to do something about it,...
They gave us the levels when it was too late to do something about it. If they had set them at the start of the year, I might of been interested in getting to the next level. I don't think they've implemented this well. I'd have no problem working harder to get to the next level if I had confidence in them but I haven't see the promised increase in downloads and I think 123RF is going to lose out to SS even more in the next few years. So for now, I'll use my time on sites that I think have a better outlook. It's a shame because I don't like having to rely so much on SS but if their rival sites keep shooting themselves in the foot, there isn't much choice.
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...123RF did give us notice about this and we all had the opportunity to do something about it,...
They gave us the levels when it was too late to do something about it. If they had set them at the start of the year, I might of been interested in getting to the next level. I don't think they've implemented this well. I'd have no problem working harder to get to the next level if I had confidence in them but I haven't see the promised increase in downloads and I think 123RF is going to lose out to SS even more in the next few years. So for now, I'll use my time on sites that I think have a better outlook. It's a shame because I don't like having to rely so much on SS but if their rival sites keep shooting themselves in the foot, there isn't much choice.
+ they promised us nearly double our sales since their announcement. Surely we had to wait to see the outcome first? This is the reason for my thread heading "how about the promises?" - as they did not keep their end up, yet they are implementing the cut.
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You know what, F--k it. I remember now why I never bothered to type in here.
Merry F--king Christmas
Ok this is what happened.
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What is your RPD at 123? I was surpirized to realize that 123 and SS are virtually exactly the same for me averaged since Jan 1/12 at 73 cents per download. (I thought SS had climbed a little higher than that). Now.... that 73 cents at 123 is about to become .51 average RPD which doesn't agree with me.
But wait..... I guess I will never see that RPD will I....
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Joy to the word.
All the boys and girls.
Joy to the fishes in the deep blue see.
Joy to you and me!
Amen.
(PS Just had to get the spirit of the season back into the thread again ;))
thanks. I think this thread needed that.
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Warning: **OT**
123RF Small Medium Large XLarge XXLarge
Image 400x 881x 2607x 3600x 2800x
Dimensions 247 544 1609 2221 4214
Level 5 (50%) $0.39 $0.79 $1.18 $1.58 $1.97
Fotolia XSmall Small Medium Large XLarge
Image 485x 850x 1691x 2360x 4214x
Dimensions 282 565 1124 1568 2800
Silver Level (25%) $0.25 $0.75 $1.25 $1.75 $2.00
Food for thought and some discussion.
Sorry for butting in here. But as a former independent but now disappointed, disillusioned, and disgruntled iStock exclusive, I have to say "thanks" for posting this. It does help remind me of one the reasons I became exclusive (and perhaps the only remaining reason for continuing to be one).
At these 2 agencies, anyway, I found it enlightening to see that the royalties for the largest file sizes (at my former commission levels) are just about exactly the same as I get at iStock for the smallest (XS) size. As for the royalties for the smallest size, I'd need to sell 5x to 8x to make up for a single IS XS sale.
For the time being, for me, it still makes sense to stay exclusive. The alternatives out there aren't as good as they were when I left (except for SS). But IS surely seems to be doing its best to de-motivate its contributors at every opportunity.
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
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Nope still level 2, no increase in credits, still dropping them after next pay out
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
You might be one of the few "large file" credit increase fortunates, but only picked up on your changed credit level now. The increase sounds very much like that.
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
I stand corrected! Checked mine +100? Something did happen. Not much but it did.... They might just have used a proportional sales amount from Dec. 2012, instead of using Des. 2011 figures.
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
You might be one of the few "large file" credit increase fortunates, but only picked up on your changed credit level now. The increase sounds very much like that.
I had a PEL, an LEL and a 200mb sale this month so maybe that is what made the difference. My earnings at 123 have equalled my earnings at Fotolia this month. So in answer to the people that wondered why I am not going to drop 123, why would I when I didn't drop Fotolia when they did something similar?
It's all well and good to talk about the long run of things but I need to pay my bills now. Like many of us I'm in no postiton financially to make a stand and the agencies know this!!
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Glad you made it to 5. Mine is unfortunately on 3, but that does not change how much the income also means to me. :-\
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Glad you made it to 5. Mine is unfortunately on 3, but that does not change how much the income also means to me. :-\
Thank you. I hope that you can soon go up a level.
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I get the message. 123 only want Yuri type lifestyle stuff, they're not interested in having any LCV niches filled up, they want buyers to go elsewhere for those. I don't do lifestyle so I'm not really wanted over there. I've deleted a few of my niche files and stopped uploading while I consider what to do next. It was only two or three percent of my income, anyway, and now they're chopping it back to something like 1.5% to 2.5% so I won't even notice it if I let the files there just die of old age, but perhaps I should remove those which deal with unique material to avoid competing with myself elsewhere.
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I get the message. 123 only want Yuri type lifestyle stuff, they're not interested in having any LCV niches filled up, they want buyers to go elsewhere for those. I don't do lifestyle so I'm not really wanted over there. I've deleted a few of my niche files and stopped uploading while I consider what to do next. It was only two or three percent of my income, anyway, and now they're chopping it back to something like 1.5% to 2.5% so I won't even notice it if I let the files there just die of old age, but perhaps I should remove those which deal with unique material to avoid competing with myself elsewhere.
Somehow I think the guys withdrawing or withholding their images are already impacting them (or it might just be the holiday's lack of of uploads), but I got a 2 hour yesterday and today a 5 min. review time.
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I've just realised - because I never paid any attention to their rejections - that a large number of my niche Qatar images were rejected by them, anyway, so they really didn't want buyers of niche subjects there. That will be why I am three credits short of their 45% level.
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I've just realised - because I never paid any attention to their rejections - that a large number of my niche Qatar images were rejected by them, anyway, so they really didn't want buyers of niche subjects there. That will be why I am three credits short of their 45% level.
They are only 1.5 to 2.5% of your income and you are 3 credits away from level 4. I'd love to take your port over at 123RF - please ;D (you won't feel a thing) ;)
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My total went up by about 200 but it doesn't take me to level 5. The only things I'd care about are dropping the noxious system completely (in which case I'd have a ton of uploading to do) or making things even worse such that I'd get even less than the currently promised 45% starting Jan 1 (in which case I'd have a ton of deleting to do).
I don't think this month's sales should make any difference because they supposedly make one calculation at the end of the month, according to what they wrote. Possibly they've given some more "bonuses" to the calculation trying to mollify contributors?
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
I'm pretty good into level 5 and having a BME too. Alright now.
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
I'm pretty good into level 5 and having a BME too. Alright now.
Glad to hear it. Have you made a decision about whether to stay or not yet?
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My total went up by about 200 but it doesn't take me to level 5. The only things I'd care about are dropping the noxious system completely (in which case I'd have a ton of uploading to do) or making things even worse such that I'd get even less than the currently promised 45% starting Jan 1 (in which case I'd have a ton of deleting to do).
I don't think this month's sales should make any difference because they supposedly make one calculation at the end of the month, according to what they wrote. Possibly they've given some more "bonuses" to the calculation trying to mollify contributors?
Anybody's guess now, until they tell us what they did. Want to let the cat out of the bag Alex?
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The credit table has been missing from the sign in page for some time too. Maybe they are revamping the program in response to all the resistance?
Fingers crossed they chuck the whole ill-advised thing...
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They moved the table here (http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php) - I don't think there are any links to it on the site. Alex told us in some thread here.
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Was looking at it right now to check - no changes to the scales, so I still think they brought in the Des. 2012 figures early, as most people's figures will probably look better with it, than with the Des. 2011 ones.
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They moved the table here ([url]http://www.123rf.com/contrib_structure.php[/url]) - I don't think there are any links to it on the site. Alex told us in some thread here.
Ah. Thank you. I guess I was overly optimistic...
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
I'm pretty good into level 5 and having a BME too. Alright now.
Glad to hear it. Have you made a decision about whether to stay or not yet?
Not yet, but in the worst case I will still be waiting at least 2 months to see how it goes. However, if the sales continue to be this good (and it seems that I'll keep my 50% effortlessly), I'll stay. It won't make any business sense to drop them, if they deliver.
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
I'm pretty good into level 5 and having a BME too. Alright now.
Glad to hear it. Have you made a decision about whether to stay or not yet?
Not yet, but in the worst case I will still be waiting at least 2 months to see how it goes. However, if the sales continue to be this good (and it seems that I'll keep my 50% effortlessly), I'll stay. It won't make any business sense to drop them, if they deliver.
Prepare yourself to be scalped by the purists here ;)
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Did they change something with the credit levels? My total has just gone up by 600 taking me well into level 5. I am having a BME there but it seems to have gone up by more than I expected it to.
I'm pretty good into level 5 and having a BME too. Alright now.
Glad to hear it. Have you made a decision about whether to stay or not yet?
Not yet, but in the worst case I will still be waiting at least 2 months to see how it goes. However, if the sales continue to be this good (and it seems that I'll keep my 50% effortlessly), I'll stay. It won't make any business sense to drop them, if they deliver.
Sounds like a sensible plan.
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Sounds like a sensible plan.
+1