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Author Topic: Simply amazing stuff - Discofilm  (Read 19991 times)

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« on: April 14, 2008, 11:20 »
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Watch this entire video
http://media.podshow.com/media/4431/episodes/53514/tipsfromthetopfloor-53514-03-12-2007.m4v

Now I need to tell you I tried it! Yes on my $8000 Canon 1Ds mark II

RESULTS: GOD darn FANTASTIC!

There is a certain method however to applying correctly.
My sensor has 0 dust....zip, zilch, zerro, nahdah, ...nothing!
It has not been this pristinely clean since the day I opened it up to take it out of the box.

The MIZ


« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2008, 11:33 »
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nice. where did you buy that huge tube from ?

« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2008, 11:37 »
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wow.. interesting technique.  I might be interested on trying it on an old 10D :)

I can believe that this works very well, but must also think that this has a higher potential for catastrophe than other techniques :)

« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2008, 11:38 »
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Unfortunately it's not sold here in the USA.
I have personal connections over in Europe, so thats how I got it.
I'm thinking of re-packaging it and selling it here in the USA.

I'm not sure if it would be worth my time and effort though.
The MIZ

« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 11:44 »
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I wonder if there is any online store in europe that sells it.

edit:
here are three german sites
http://www.phonophono.de/YD51002_56.php3
http://www.protected.de/artikel_1000/1109.htm
http://www.musictools.de/shop.shtml

not sure where they ship to
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 11:47 by leaf »

« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 12:01 »
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By the way, I have actual images of my sensor I took.

I used my 24-105mm set to f22 and 24mm
In order to get the best results you need a wide angle lens and the smallest aperture.





Usually I see a spec or 2 of dust after using the wet method like 5 times.
Using this method....NOTHING! those images are untouched. I just did a contrast boost
so you are able to see the dust specs as I had to downsize the images from nearly 5000 pixels wide to 600
in order to post them here.

The MIZ

« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 12:19 »
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Unfortunately it's not sold here in the USA.
I have personal connections over in Europe, so thats how I got it.
I'm thinking of re-packaging it and selling it here in the USA.

I'm not sure if it would be worth my time and effort though.
The MIZ


Looks like someone is doing it already.

http://www.sensor-film.com/buy.html

Looks like a good method. 

« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2008, 12:29 »
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Yeah but but it costs $31.60 USA  -  plus  $7.90 shipping.

I can sell it for less than half that price!

« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 12:50 »
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This is a similar product used to clean telescope mirrors.  I don't know if it would work on camera sensors but it sets in 5 minutes, much less time than discofilm and they supply an adhesive tab to remove the film.

http://www.caliope.co.uk/using-opticlean.htm

« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2008, 13:06 »
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One problem with this OPTICLEAN you listed:
The solvents used to hold the polymer in solution are acetone, ethanol and ethyl acetate.
This will literally melt plastic!

the disco film is water based. No solvents, and it goes back into a goop form if moistened.

The MIZ

PS since opticlean is flammable to I wonder what restrictions there may be in USA postal regulations
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 13:10 by rjmiz »

« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2008, 13:09 »
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This is a similar product used to clean telescope mirrors.  I don't know if it would work on camera sensors but it sets in 5 minutes, much less time than discofilm and they supply an adhesive tab to remove the film.

http://www.caliope.co.uk/using-opticlean.htm


yep.. agreed with rjmiz.  Here is a quote from the opticlean website

Quote
CAUTION ! when using Opti-Clean
 

Caution Opti-clean is highly flammableDo NOT use on plastic lenses and any other plastic parts.

 

The solvents used in Opti-clean can damage some plastic materials.

 
** HIGHLY FLAMMABLE **

digiology

« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2008, 13:37 »
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I watched the video and that wasn't too scarey. I wouldn't be afraid to try that myself.

If the company is smart they re-package the stuff in mini-tubes and sell those for $20.

« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2008, 13:41 »
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Wow, that sounds scary and great at the same time! That would indeed might be a great marketing deal. Half a liter is in one bottle. The guy from sensor-film really makes a lot of money, if he uses Disco film. I bet he does, his accent is German.

« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2008, 14:51 »
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yeah.. pretty sure that is disco film as well.

he is charging the same amount for that tiny 30ml bottle as the 1/2 liter bottles are sold for :)

« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2008, 14:56 »
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just ordered a bottle of discofilm on the internet.. will be 'fun' to try it out.

I think perhaps cameras with TONS of dust this is just the thing.

If there is only a speck or two, then perhaps a brush or a swab would suffice. 

digiology

« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2008, 14:58 »
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Wow, that sounds scary and great at the same time! That would indeed might be a great marketing deal. Half a liter is in one bottle. The guy from sensor-film really makes a lot of money, if he uses Disco film. I bet he does, his accent is German.


The guy from sensor-film says his polymer is based on the disc cleaning formula but is optimized for DSLR sensors. Optimized how? By squeezing discofilm into small vials and then selling it for $30 bucks a pop?

« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2008, 15:02 »
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Wow, that sounds scary and great at the same time! That would indeed might be a great marketing deal. Half a liter is in one bottle. The guy from sensor-film really makes a lot of money, if he uses Disco film. I bet he does, his accent is German.


The guy from sensor-film says his polymer is based on the disc cleaning formula but is optimized for DSLR sensors. Optimized how? By squeezing discofilm into small vials and then selling it for $30 bucks a pop?


exactly :)

« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2008, 15:19 »
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I am willing to share mine if anyone wants some :)

The total was EUR 40 including shipping for 500ml which is $63.20

I can put it in 20 ml containers... hmm it gets to be actually not much better than that other guy :)

20ml for $10 + shipping
40ml for $15 + shipping

The container ends up costing more than what is inside :(

send a message if you want some then.  I live in Norway, I am not sure what shipping would be to places but not more than $5.00
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 15:22 by leaf »

digiology

« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2008, 15:40 »
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The stuff seems really similar too whats used in facial masks (minus the kiwi scent). ;D

« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2008, 16:35 »
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I find this product quite risky  :-\
My Artic butterfly is doing its job at the moment

« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2008, 16:45 »
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I find this product quite risky  :-\
My Artic butterfly is doing its job at the moment

yes, i feel, as risky as buying eye drops from a woodo drugstore.


« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2008, 16:47 »
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I would like to know what you think the risks are?

It never touches the actual sensor. It only goes on the glass
that covers the low pass filter on top of the sensor.

What exactly in your mind is telling you it's risky, or better yet
tell be what your basing the risk factor on!?

The MIZ
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 16:49 by rjmiz »

« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2008, 17:21 »
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In case it never touches the sensor, but just the glass ( i am not familiar with sensor technology, only with warnings not to touch it in any way), the drops should magically work, both on lenses and artificial eyeballs. I am not a contrarian, at all.




« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2008, 17:24 »
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I'd seen the original video here
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoWLoz4JKZI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoWLoz4JKZI</a>

but never thought of using it but now I think  I might  give it a go.in the video the guy has a smaller bottle is it the same as the one in the  video

« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2008, 19:01 »
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I also feel that this product is risky.

I believe that there are a few risks:

- accidentally applying it on the edges of the sensor and not being able to remove it all

- accidentally spilling the product inside the camera

- scratching the low pass filter with the tweezers as you are trying to insert or pull the "tab" to remove the gel

- the liquid possibly damaging the low pass sensor coating

But I also feel that sensor swabs are risky as well (since you could scratch the low pass filter if you don't do it correctly and the solution can damage the low pass filter coating)

I myself just use a rocket blower and sensor cleaning brush.

« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2008, 19:39 »
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"if you don't do it correctly and the solution can damage the low pass filter coating"
Not possible. The coating on the filter is on the OTHER side of the glass -  facing down.

accidentally applying it on the edges of the sensor and not being able to remove it all
This is altogether a REAL possibility. However, a re-application will reabsorb any stuck on pieces.....if any.

accidentally spilling the product inside the camera
Not possible if you don't bring the bottle near the camera. I have the bottle opened on a table beside me.
I hold the camera in one hand, and the brush in the other. Until I grow a third arm I will not be able to spill it into the camera.

"scratching the low pass filter with the tweezers as you are trying to insert or pull the "tab" to remove the gel"

This was a concern of mine also. But consider this. I don't use a tweezer with sharp points. Also I bend the strip of paper
when I place it into the corner of the sensor. It bananas up so I can grab it with my fingers. I use my fingers instead.
But try to scratch glass with a tweezer. go ahead try it. I did.... on a mirror. Didn't work. It would not scratch. as hard as
I tried the glass would not scratch.

The MIZ



« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2008, 20:22 »
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"if you don't do it correctly and the solution can damage the low pass filter coating"
Not possible. The coating on the filter is on the OTHER side of the glass -  facing down.

I'm not sure about all Canon or Nikon cameras but I know that many of the cameras have the coating on the front of the filter.  There are many known cases of people scratching or accidentally removing the coating.

« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2008, 20:28 »
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Yeah then its a factory defect

« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2008, 20:38 »
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I dont think I will ever use that

First they say its water based , so it cant possibly do nothing with greasy spots , and you will still have to use swab method , and the dust that it handles well , can  be blown away in most times and thats way more practical  and faster method .

So its not a real competition to swab method but for air pumps , and even if you use disco thing you will still want to blow some air cause if you start going with a brush and you have some bigger crap like peace of sand or something you could do some damage.








« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2008, 20:46 »
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I just did some research on the low pass filter coatings.

Seems that some wet cleaning solutions (alcohol solvent based) may or may not present a hazard with Nikon cameras with ITO coatings.
 
ITO coating: D40, D40x, D70s, D80, D300, D2xs, D3
No coating: D1, D1h, D1x, D2h, D2hs, D2x, D50, D70*, D100, D200

However disco film is water based, and will not harm filters with ITO coatings

The only 100% guaranteed way to get your sensor cleaned without worry is to send it back to the manufacturer.
ALL cleaning methods (EVERY SINGLE ONE) has some inherent risk if you decide to clean it yourself.

The MIZ

PS Lizard is correct. Disco film will NOT remove grease, fingerprints, transmission fluid, discarded oil from your last oil change, bacon grease,
Vaseline, WD-40, bearing grease, peanut butter, butter, or margarine.

Perhaps shooting film again might not be a bad idea after all - no sensors
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 20:56 by rjmiz »

« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2008, 00:52 »
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the dangers i think, or negative things with discofilm are..(as mentioned on the sensor-film site)

it takes a long time to do the process

you run the risk of the shutter closing while the stuff is drying and if you mis-applied any of the film the shutter could be glued closed!  THEN you would be in a pickle.

« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2008, 01:44 »
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Disco film will NOT remove ... transmission fluid, discarded oil from your last oil change, bacon grease, Vaseline, WD-40, bearing grease, peanut butter...

Then what's the point!?   ::)

This method of cleaning scares me - but it could be really great for people who want a really REALLY clean sensor.  I saw the b4 and after - they are great.

« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2008, 02:04 »
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Hmmm ... I'm not sure about his method either. And what a performance!

It reminds me of a method that was recommended by certain people a while back, using a bit of scotch tape sticky side down on the sensor. Anyone who did that needed their head examining.

Apart from the other concerns expressed, what does this stuff leave behind? Yes, I know that they say it all peels off but you have to take their word for it. If it sticks strongly enough to need peeling off it could well leave a small, invisible residue behind.

Use it again and again and again and ...  ??

For me the main thing is not to get too anal about dust. A while back, in the UK they were selling a little zip-up bag for lens changing, with sort of reverse gloves (like equipment for handling radioactive waste). The idea was you put your camera and lens into it, zipped the whole lot up and changed the lens in a supposedly 'sterile' environment.

Talk about a laugh and a waste of money. But I bet some suckers bought it and spent their time putting camera and lenses in and out of it while the world went by.

I'm sticking with my Arctic Butterfly brushes and rocket blower.

Dust is a fact of life in DSLRs. Live with it and take photos.


« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2008, 04:05 »
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I bought the Sensor-Film, and am pretty happy with it.  I guess it would have been cheaper to go with Disco-film, but couldn't find a supplier (didn't really try), and since hearing about it on the podcast, just went with that guy's product.

It's true it won't get rid of oily / greasy dust - and I've had a couple of stubborn spots like that over the year I've been using this (2 or 3 cleanings so far). 

I usually go with Rocket Blower first, and if it's still dirty, Copperhill, and then finally Sensor-Film.


I'd like to point out I don't like the idea of "bananaing" up the pull tab, as if the battery runs out (hasn't happened to me yet), and the shutter closes, it could get caught in the shutter.  I juse use a tweazer with non-metal tips (found it in the pharmacy).  Besides, the sensor film is so thick, you can't really scratch through it unless you deliberately pushed down and accross on the sensor.

So all in all I'm happy, and I end up with pretty clean sensors.  Handy for those days I plan on doing landscapes.


 

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