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Author Topic: Incorrect keywords DT  (Read 27699 times)

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« Reply #100 on: March 03, 2010, 10:50 »
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*everything you said*

Thanks Lisa for explaining this to everyone.
Sometimes it just has to be spelled out.


« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2010, 11:40 »
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Sounds like they just didn't realize how, in today's world, people will swarm on an opportunity to make 2 cents by clicking on web pages.

« Reply #102 on: March 03, 2010, 12:37 »
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This is really a shame because DT used to be a good moneymaking site for me. Sales consistently increased. I sabotaged it myself by considering exclusivity and my sales plummeted in Jan. but that is not their fault.

I appreciate that they are trying to clean up the database and make searches easier for buyers. I do hope they can sort this out, though, because I see it causing more problems than solutions at this point.

« Reply #103 on: March 03, 2010, 13:06 »
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WarrenPrice

« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2010, 13:09 »
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I can't stop harping on the fact that it is the DT reviewers who approved the erroneous key words.  They need to clean up their own mess.

When was the last time you had an upload rejected for keywords?

« Reply #105 on: March 03, 2010, 13:19 »
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But does the flagging of an image has any negative effects on it?  Like those keywords being ignored in a search?

Any answer to this?

lisafx

« Reply #106 on: March 03, 2010, 13:32 »
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But does the flagging of an image has any negative effects on it?  Like those keywords being ignored in a search?

Any answer to this?

AFAIK not until they are removed. 

« Reply #107 on: March 03, 2010, 13:41 »
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I can't stop harping on the fact that it is the DT reviewers who approved the erroneous key words.  They need to clean up their own mess.
When was the last time you had an upload rejected for keywords?

Try to imagine how much it would cost to pay competent people to review and edit the keywords of 8 million images already in the archive.   Is that really going to happen, or is it more likely that today's microstocks are eventually eclipsed by new agencies that start fresh and do a better job?

« Reply #108 on: March 03, 2010, 13:57 »
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Quote
AFAIK not until they are removed. 

I agree. From what I remember, the fact that they have been flagged does not change anything about the image. Once the reviewer goes over the flagged keywords, approves or rejects their removal, the keywords are locked. If you want to change them after that, you have to email support. Until the keywords are reviewed and locked, your image stays in the search as it was, with keywords as they were.

At least this was my understanding.

« Reply #109 on: March 03, 2010, 14:18 »
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Quote
AFAIK not until they are removed. 

I agree. From what I remember, the fact that they have been flagged does not change anything about the image. Once the reviewer goes over the flagged keywords, approves or rejects their removal, the keywords are locked.

But haven't people reported old 2007 flags apparently now were verified and reviewers (wrongly) agree with the flags?  Or do we have two different flag problems, one old and one new? I'm confused. 

The one I was reported about made sense only because it was not a composed keyword anymore.  I don't know if adding the composed keyword in the description will help when the reviewer checks it, because that keyword alone indeed doesn't belong to the image.

« Reply #110 on: March 03, 2010, 14:45 »
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In my case a flag from 2007 led to my keywords being locked on one of my best sellers although the keyword is absolutely valid.

I wrote to support to get the keyword re-inserted and the whopping 2 cents stripped from the flagger.

This in itself is such a waste of time.

« Reply #111 on: March 03, 2010, 15:07 »
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Perhaps this is the way DT fights IS exclusivity? AFAIK any editing resets lock period?

:)

« Reply #112 on: March 03, 2010, 15:19 »
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Perhaps this is the way DT fights IS exclusivity? AFAIK any editing resets lock period?
:)

And the conspiracy begins...  ::)

« Reply #113 on: March 03, 2010, 16:35 »
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Click- Click,
stop shouting.
It does you no good, (think of high blood pressure and other medical perils) and more to the point, there's nothing to stop me from doing the exact same.
Your caps-lock IS NOT BETTER THAN MINE. Although it's stupid, we can go that way if you really want to.  
It's ok, I got it, you don't like spam.
Then clean it up, or let other people do it for you. (caps lock on :) )

Don't like the way DT is doing it? Have a better idea?
Post it on DT's forum.

Over 90 per cent of the flags are errors?
I have a hard time believing this.
As far as I understand it the flag only reflects the last search. The reported keywords are not necessarily all irrelevant.
Have a look at ALL your keywords on reported images.

Don't have the time to do it?
Let DT's admins do it for you.
They have no reason to remove relevant keywords.

End of story.

Are photographers going to leave DT because of the flagging system?
Well, judging by what I've seen (most) photographers do, the sites they upload to, I have a hard time believing this either.
As long as it's all about the money, they'll keep on uploading. No matter what.

@Lisa,
your case is different. There's something else stopping you from uploding to DT, and it's not the flagging system.
But I respect your opinion, I always have, and although I'll be sorry to see you going I wish you all the best.

Ah, and by the way, after posting here I also got flagged (twice). Predictably.
I'm the target of revenge.
Go ahead, I have 278 images, 2 flagged, 276 to go, plenty more images to click. Enjoy :)

« Reply #114 on: March 03, 2010, 17:10 »
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Quote
@Lisa,
your case is different. There's something else stopping you from uploding to DT, and it's not the flagging system.
But I respect your opinion, I always have, and although I'll be sorry to see you going I wish you all the best.

I don't think lisa's case is much different than the rest of ours. If keyword flagging starts resulting in plummeting sales, there will be a long line behind lisa on the way out. We aren't in this only for funzies...we do expect to make money, too.

Quote
Don't like the way DT is doing it? Have a better idea?
Post it on DT's forum.

Actually, some of us have posted on the forum as well as emailed support, making suggestions as to how the flagger abuse could be stopped. We are not a part of management though. There isn't much else to do but make the suggestion and debate it amongst ourselves. That's kind of what this forum is for. At least I thought.  :)

« Reply #115 on: March 03, 2010, 17:20 »
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...
Let DT's admins do it for you.

I did, and today they stripped two valid keywords from one of my best selling image because the flagging system rips keywords out of context and the reviewers obviously don't have enough time to thoroughly go through all the keywords.

I'm not the only one or first one this has happened to.

Quote
They have no reason to remove relevant keywords.
Of course they have no reason to remove relevant keywords but since DT doesn't use disambiguation it's getting fairly impossible for reviewers to be up to date of how a keyword was used.

...

Quote
Are photographers going to leave DT because of the flagging system?
Well, judging by what I've seen (most) photographers do, the sites they upload to, I have a hard time believing this either.
As long as it's all about the money, they'll keep on uploading. No matter what.
Once you will do this business as your main income you will care about things like this. And why would you care if anybody leaves DT? Neither me, Lisa, Elena or anybody else here wants to leave DT. No idea where that is coming from.

...

Quote
Go ahead, I have 278 images, 2 flagged, 276 to go, plenty more images to click. Enjoy :)

Go get a cookie for that one. Congrats.

« Reply #116 on: March 03, 2010, 17:26 »
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Ellen Boughn was the flagger for this one...
Your image was flagged/reported for incorrect usage of the following keywords: nude. No admin action has been taken yet and the report is pending.
  ::)

lisafx

« Reply #117 on: March 03, 2010, 17:34 »
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I would write to Ellen directly.  

As I understand it she was beta testing the flagging system several years ago and there were some bugs.  Obviously she knows how to keyword and would have no motive for intentionally taking out relevant words.

Personally I feel really bad for having singled her out.   She's been a really great sport and very gracious about this.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #118 on: March 03, 2010, 17:38 »
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Since it seems most of these flags came from 2007....did they have the 2 cent deal back then? I thought that was something recent..either that or time has flown by unnoticed by me.

« Reply #119 on: March 03, 2010, 19:56 »
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Leaving DT is a personal choice and I respect it in all cases.
However I do not believe photographers are going to leave DT solely because of the flagging system.
Such cases will be very, very rare.

Some photographers will lose some sales.
Other photographers - more relevant images will get them.
Nothing wrong with that, right?
I'm sure everyone here wants to play fair.
It has nothing to do with personal interes. Or does it?

Anything DT does to improve buyers' experience and search results gets a thumbs up from me. The fact that they're willing to pay contributors to help clean up the collection is a bonus.
In my opinion it shows true commitment from one of a kind site.
I trust errors will be fairly dealt with.
I have never flagged anyone and I will never do it.
But I'm all for it, even if it means that every single one of my images gets flagged (and I got 10 more approved in the last half hour :) ).
That's all I had to say on this matter.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 20:02 by Eireann »

« Reply #120 on: March 03, 2010, 20:01 »
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It seems to me that this system is counterproductive. For an image to get 'flagged' (by honest buyers, not scammers) someone has to click on it, i.e. already have some interest in it based on the thumbnail.  Doesn't this mean that good images, and good-selling images, will tend to be cleaned up but that the real junk goes untouched?   Or am I missing something?

« Reply #121 on: March 04, 2010, 01:14 »
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Personally I feel really bad for having singled her out.   She's been a really great sport and very gracious about this.

Lisa, you are right. I guess I was just a bit twisted around in my seat this morning when I posted that. Others had been complaining that people with non-existant ports were flagging, I thought it was odd that Ms. Boughn would flag this obviously nude image as being incorrectly labeled "nude".  And, I guess, a little upset.

So, I apologize for being a bit jumpy.

It is the only image that has been flagged in the last few months, so I removed the keyword and am pressing on for now. If it starts to happen more frequently, I will look deeper into it. 

« Reply #122 on: March 04, 2010, 01:44 »
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Since it seems most of these flags came from 2007....did they have the 2 cent deal back then? I thought that was something recent..either that or time has flown by unnoticed by me.

The flagging I got from one contributor was from 2007.  She was surprised as I was that it's just turning up now.  Her flag was actually an act of trying to help me because I had spelled a critical word wrong.  She was very gracious in accepting my apology, and I felt like a dunce for pouncing on her. 

The other trolls on the loose looking for a few extra pennies are a different story.  If these flagged files are dating back to '07, as many seem to be, then something is really messed up.  If it's taking almost 3 years to address those flags, how long will it take to clean up what's happening now with all these people scrambling to get their two cents?  The site could be user-hostile for years to come.

In all fairness, things have been changing rapidly in microstockland, and it's only been during the past two years that keywords have become such a big issue.  Reviewers of past would give a quick glance at keywords to check for obvious spamming, but the main focus was on building the catalog as fast as possible.  I wonder if these guys really thought this business would become the monster business that it has become, or if they thought they'd make some cash while the getting was good then retire when the game ended.  Surprise, surprise.  The hunger for images has gotten even bigger over the years, and now all the sites are scrambling to fix messes they let pass by during the race to get more images online than the other guy. 

How the issue is handled is going to determine who stays in the game and who folds.  The one with the most user-friendly search engine that does NOT turn contributors against each other will probably come out ahead.  So far, DT is not handling it well.  Using words like "award" for flagging, and "penalty" for removed keywords are fighting words in American English idiom.  It's one thing to master a foreign language, and another thing altogether to understand the subtle nuances.   I've always felt that this was a problem with the communication on DT, especially where Serban is concerned.  But what the heck do I know. 

FYI, those trolling for a penny or two are, for the most part, not making personal attacks.  One guy who flagged me is doing random searches, cruising the keywords in hopes of finding something he can make some money off of, and does not see the name of the person whose image it is.  What is not at all fair is that the person flagged does see the flagger's name, and it can feel like one heck of a betrayal or a personal vendetta.  That is not fair to those earnestly trying to help clean up the site.  That needs to change, and quickly.

« Reply #123 on: March 04, 2010, 05:03 »
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DT is a fly by night company.

maybe they outsourced to India and the indians there expect "queen's english" in the keywords ?

Fly-by-night? It was the first one set up after istock, in June 2004. That's hardly "fly-by-night".

« Reply #124 on: March 04, 2010, 08:29 »
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Most of your questions have received an answer in our forums or in the Q&A that is linked in the flag report (http://www.dreamstime.com/faq2036-my-image-was-flagged-reported-for-irrelevant-keywords-what-should-i-do-). The link was missed by most persons complaining. The system is not perfect and I apologize for not making it better and for the controversy it generated. There are many members communicating nicely though. A lot of educated explanations are made, helpin our admin when reviewing. We're grateful for all efforts involved.

The amount of reported images was huge (several hundreds of thousands). The number of complaints was minimal compared to how much of the database was cleaned of spam. Spam affects all contributors' sales and the buyers' experience and should concern you too.

The method was working this way (via public comments) since middle last year (August 2009). For anyone who wants to check here is the original thread dated 2007 and an updated thread in August 2009:
http://www.dreamstime.com/forumm_7808_pg1 (Jul 2007)
http://www.dreamstime.com/thread_18084 (Aug 2009)

We consider this as an advantage for contributors (see why below). If you dislike it, simply ignore the comments, nothing changes for you. No flag affects your images until they are reviewed by an admin (when they could be very well refused). 

The controversy was generated because  we accelerated the process in the last couple of weeks, trying to get rid of the entire pending line. The number of comments was much higher and generated some panic. People rushed to reply without knowing how the system works. Several wrong or misleading details are in this very thread.
For example a few contributors assumed that the flag affects your search placement or it's approved by default. That is not the case. The flag will only inform you: you can educate the admin (and the flagger) OR fix the image (and you will not have your rights blocked).

It's important to note that many buyers have used the flag accidentaly, especially in the beginning. The report will reveal the very words that were used to download your image. If you reply, don't make rude comments, you could email the very customer who downloaded the image.

As for the fee, the two cents are symbolical. No one is using the system to generate revenue and that is why the fee was set so low. I agree that otherwise there would be a witch hunt and we certainly don't want members to turn against each other.

Any specific questions to images and flags should be posted here: http://www.dreamstime.com/thread_21022 , we will be happy to address them.

If you have any questions I will do my best to reply, but please do it in one of the threads given. Read admin posts in these threads: http://www.dreamstime.com/thread_18084
http://www.dreamstime.com/forumm_7808_pg6

I'm no longer able to follow all threads posted here, especially when a response was given on our site. We cannot answer questions in several places.
Also some users hide behind anonymous accounts to launch veiled attacks or to make rude comments. I'm not saying that all anonymous users have bad intentions, but one needs to check the facts before posting some accusations or misleading statements. There is a certain etiquette that should apply to any poster on any forum. If you believe that flaming agencies and creating so much hate in this forum will result in anything good, you're wrong and I'm sorry for you. I'll probably give up visiting MSG due to this fact. If you need my help, I'm available on Dreamstime via comments and will gladly help.


 

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