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Author Topic: Would you accept this real estate photo assignment?  (Read 8528 times)

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« on: January 13, 2014, 15:10 »
0
A real estate agent is offering to pay me $200 and cover food, lodging and air travel (San Diego to Napa Valley by San Francisco) to shoot a five million dollar home with models (she pays models and arranges). IF the property sells, she will pay a $1000 bonus to me.

This will be a one day shoot, many with strobes and most with available light bracketed for HDR to capture window data so they don't get blown out. Guessing about 20 to 30 processed shots -- post will be HDR, color corrections, clean up and wide angle distortion correction.

Architectural photography is new to me and still sorting out my chops but my first shoot blew her away (she paid $200 which I accepted since I was learning). I thought I would add it to my offering but read on other forums that real estate shooters make about $100 to $350 per house! Just not enough for me.

Would you take a contingent assignment like this? Are RE photographers really shooting for such low fees?

Thanks for your thoughts :)

Bill


« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 15:12 »
+3
I wouldn't.  That sounds ridiculous.  For $200 on a $5 million house, you get me and my iphone for 20 minutes :) .  She must not think she's a very good agent "if" it sells...

« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 15:18 »
0
I wouldn't.  That sounds ridiculous.  For $200 on a $5 million house, you get me and my iphone for 20 minutes :) .  She must not think she's a very good agent "if" it sells...

That is what I am thinking. Sure it would be nice to visit the area but most of my time would be pressed up to a camera back and sliding light stands around. Run-and-gun day shoots are exhausting and post on these shoots is extensive. She makes over a hundred grand commission if they sell and she does well but these homes take A LONG time to sell.

« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 15:31 »
+3
Tell her that if it sells you'll take a 0.05% cut of the sale price.

« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 15:58 »
+2
so your probably looking at 2 full days of work minimum
1 day to shoot 1 day to process  for a minimum of $100/day and at the best $600/day

she got you for $200 initially and thats where she expects it to stay

I would say - in addition I want model release and property release so that you can at least take some of those shots and sell them on your own providing perhaps a little buffer for you if the deal craps out.


« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 16:01 »
+7
Perhaps - if you wanted the experience and the trip - you could work a deal with model and property releases so you could sell some stock images from the shoot. Perhaps also use of the models for a bit longer with some shoots for you on the grounds or around the house? You might want to take a look at existing pictures of the property to be sure it'd be a good set for your own stuff.

« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 17:22 »
+1
so your probably looking at 2 full days of work minimum
1 day to shoot 1 day to process  for a minimum of $100/day and at the best $600/day

she got you for $200 initially and thats where she expects it to stay

I would say - in addition I want model release and property release so that you can at least take some of those shots and sell them on your own providing perhaps a little buffer for you if the deal craps out.

I got the MR and PR on the other shoot but only the sauna shots should be marketable. Models standing on massive staircases might not sell so well -- so I don't think general interiors with models being models will be in demand. Sure I could start working concepts into the shoot but with agent and home owner over my shoulder that might not fly.

I might just take it for the experience and shoot without strobes. Won't cost me anything and I was considering moving and Napa was on the list. The adventure factor is an angle -- at least that is what I am trying to convince myself... ::)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 17:24 by oxman »

« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 18:02 »
+1
Bottom line if you feel like taking it and have nothing else lined up right now why not. I would say pay me $1200 up front and I am there

« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 18:54 »
+1
its a good offer.
just make sure she bears all expenses in case the house is not sold.
then it boils down to that you make 200 dollars that day, and that is ok.
If you are smart, you have the models sign releases so you can microstock them.

« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 19:01 »
0
If they have enough money in the budget to pay more than one model, how come they can't cough up a reasonable fee for the photog?  Sounds a little funky.

It's an all day assignment with post-processing.  I wouldn't do it for less than $600 and I'd normally ask for $900.

« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2014, 19:08 »
0
If you get espensive enough, they will fly a guy in from China, who can do it for 30 dollars and a bowl of rice.
Remember that.
There is nothing in the world market that justifies that you charge 900 dollars for 25 pictures.
it all boils down to expenses such as aircraft tickets.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 19:10 by JPSDK »

« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2014, 19:14 »
0
If they have enough money in the budget to pay more than one model, how come they can't cough up a reasonable fee for the photog?  Sounds a little funky.

It's an all day assignment with post-processing.  I wouldn't do it for less than $600 and I'd normally ask for $900.


The models are her son and his girlfriend - doing it for free. They both are very attractive and she has modeled for me often. I would like to get $1500 for a day shoot with a defined shot list. She had a guy but he wants $200 per hour... I told her that I had not shot architectural but she liked my portfolio and wanted me... then I spent hours on YouTube and Kelby ramping up LOL.

The shots came out great on the first shoot but I failed to bracket down enough  to expose for the windows...oops so they are blown out. Newbie error but I know now.


« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2014, 19:20 »
0
Blown out windows OOPS!! ::)


Ed

« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2014, 21:26 »
+5
I would take it.  Here's the deal, most real estate agents use their iPhone.  For real estate sales getting your foot in the door (no pun intended) is insanely difficult.  If you're consulting Scott Kelby books/blogs/tutorials to brush up before a shoot, then quite frankly, you aren't worth $1,200 and if you think you're going to get a $1,200 day rate elsewhere, then you're dreaming and you shouldn't be asking about this on a microstock forum.  Even $600 day rates are tough to come by these days.

There are real estate photographers here where I live that are competing against each other at $75 - $85 per house and there are real estate agents here complaining about that price - including travel expenses.

I say take the gig, get property and model releases, grant them exclusive rights to use the images for a year, then market them as stock once their contract is over.  Use the spare time while you're traveling to get some travel images.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2014, 21:31 »
+1
Can an estate agent sign a property release on a house?

shudderstok

« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2014, 22:01 »
0
rule #1 - never shoot for free or on spec. unless of course it's a charity or non-profit you really support.

once you set the bar of 'cheap/free/gullible' it's pretty hard to raise the bar. just sayin.

ask yourself this... how much would you be willing to work for per hour in any job? multiply this hourly wage by how many hours of travel and shooting time and post processing time. what are your expenses to do this shoot ie: equipment, taxi fares, meals, etc. now add this to the shoot total.

as it stands, you are subsidizing her shoot and paying for her marketing while she reaps in the profits from the "if" sale.


« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2014, 00:50 »
+1
I would take it.  Here's the deal, most real estate agents use their iPhone.  For real estate sales getting your foot in the door (no pun intended) is insanely difficult.  If you're consulting Scott Kelby books/blogs/tutorials to brush up before a shoot, then quite frankly, you aren't worth $1,200 and if you think you're going to get a $1,200 day rate elsewhere, then you're dreaming and you shouldn't be asking about this on a microstock forum.  Even $600 day rates are tough to come by these days.

There are real estate photographers here where I live that are competing against each other at $75 - $85 per house and there are real estate agents here complaining about that price - including travel expenses.

I say take the gig, get property and model releases, grant them exclusive rights to use the images for a year, then market them as stock once their contract is over.  Use the spare time while you're traveling to get some travel images.

Thanks Ed and great reply!!  :)

I've read where RE photographers are indeed shooting for those low fees and I don't want to waste my time with peanuts. So I do not plan to add this to my service offering unless I can get more money. And you are right -- i am a newbie getting my chops sorted.

I have decided to do the shoot for the experience and adventure. Nice people and really into awesome wines so Viva De Napa!! 8)

I get MR and PRs on these and make that clear going in so I will be able to leverage the shoot to micro stock. Like the travel images idea too!!

Thanks again...

Bill

attached is my favorite shot from the shoot. HDR and yes that is the moon up there in the sky.


« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2014, 00:50 »
0
Can an estate agent sign a property release on a house?

I doubt it. I had the home owner do it.  :)

« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2014, 00:52 »
0
BTW -- I am totally open to any critique  of my shots  8)

« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2014, 01:50 »
0
BTW -- I am totally open to any critique  of my shots  8)

Nice shots.
Take the job, use hdr, enjoy.
Your RE friend will need You again and again.
When did You earn with stock 1200$ in two days?

« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2014, 01:55 »
0
BTW -- I am totally open to any critique  of my shots  8)

Nice shots.
Take the job, use hdr, enjoy.
Your RE friend will need You again and again.
When did You earn with stock 1200$ in two days?

Thanks will do and good point about the $$$  ;)

Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2014, 02:37 »
0
i did the same mistake years ago, accepting shooting something where i had zero expertise and where i also lacked the proper gear.

the pics turned out OK but of course not on par with Pros doing that stuff for a living.

end of the story, i got the money but i lost the client and felt miserable and to top it off he also told other friends that i was a mediocre photographer.

my fault ! but lesson learned !

never accept an assignment where you know you can't guaranteee a professional result at least on par with the clients expectations.

clients know sh-it about all the technical stuff, they think a good photographer is 360 degrees from architecture to fine art to studio to indoors to sport to news to weddings, and good luck telling them otherwise.

i was very clear with him about this but i shot myself in the foot and rightly so as even wanting i lacked the proper lighting and much more.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2014, 04:47 »
0
Can an estate agent sign a property release on a house?

I doubt it. I had the home owner do it.  :)

And as per previous discussion on this subject, wouldn't it need to be made known to a future owner in any contracts.
I wouldn't like my unique $5M home being used in an advert for anything (if I had one, mine just looks like thousands of others by the same builder all over the country).

« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2014, 06:41 »
+2
If it were me I would want the priced fixed, not maybe if the place is sold.  Don't forget what is known as the Call Girl Principle

There is a philosophy in negotiation strategy known as the Call Girl Principle and it basically posits that the value of a given service is greatly diminished once that service has been rendered. It is named the Call Girl Principle in honor of those women of commercial virtue who always demand the money up front, knowing that it is much harder to collect ex post facto in flagrante delicto.

Ron

« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2014, 07:09 »
+1
BTW -- I am totally open to any critique  of my shots  8)
HDR mate. If you shoot interiors with windows, its perfect for HDR. Just take 5 exposures of all the rooms, and work it out when you come home. If you do it properly you wont even notice it was HDR.


stockphotoeurope

« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2014, 08:22 »
+2
I would. Not for the $200 (I am not interested in assignments, by the way) but for the food, lodging and air travel as an occasion to do my own stock photography in San Francisco. I would ask for a few more paid nights there as part of the deal however.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 08:26 by stockphotoeurope »

« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2014, 08:42 »
+2
HDR is a good idea.
Else tripod and  flashes, eventually long exposures and paint with light.

plus
shutterspeed for ambient light
and
aperture for flash



« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2014, 12:14 »
0
HDR is a good idea.
Else tripod and  flashes, eventually long exposures and paint with light.

plus
shutterspeed for ambient light
and
aperture for flash




Very nice! That is what I am after -- I should have bracketed to that level -- will next time ;)

What do you mean by "aperture for flash" ? -- I shoot with a Canon L 20mm fixed at about f/14 for DOF

When I tested at home with strobes and giant umbrellas, it over-powered the nice ambient light. Some pros I saw using strobes had weak portfolios IMO. HDR seems to work best if not over-processed.

For shots with models and ambient light, i have to raise the ISO (ugh) to shoot at minimum 1/60 SS. Then fix the noise in post. PLUS bracket down for the windows for post work.


BTW -- since i am retouching this morning -- I did my thing on your photo. I will post it if  you approve of me doing that.  8)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 12:25 by oxman »

« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2014, 13:09 »
+2
I also used strobes for  the above picture.

You have 2 ways of controlling the exposure, the amount of light you let into the camera. Aperture and shutterspeed.
And you have 2 lightsources: Ambient light and Strobe light.

Now set your camera (on tripod) to expose correctly for the stobes, after some experiments you will get an aperture and a shutterspeed that works.

But the shutterspeed doesnt matter much with strobes, since they flash in milli seconds. So you can  lower the shutterspeed and such get more ambient light into the camera.

In reality you may want to do more, like stepping down as well and
Move the strobes back and forth, turning them up and down, and even as a last resource fiddle with iso, it is possible to expose all light sources in the frame correctly.
In the above picture, note that also the candles are correctly exposed, and that took some experimenting.

I have had such ambient/ strobe situations, that ballanced so delicately that I had to get the right exposure by stepping up ISO.

When  I do interiors I usually bring one very powerfull strobe, that  I bounce from a corner in the cieling and let ambient light create the style or twist in the image.



« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 13:26 by JPSDK »

« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2014, 16:16 »
0
Sounds like an interesting assignment, which IF REAL, I'd do for nothing.  $200 is meaningless in today's economy but the pictures might have good value.  However, I would NOT send a thing without watermarking my name and number. 

BTW, I wouldn't call it an assignment and much as a favor. 

« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2014, 16:36 »
0
I also used strobes for  the above picture.

You have 2 ways of controlling the exposure, the amount of light you let into the camera. Aperture and shutterspeed.
And you have 2 lightsources: Ambient light and Strobe light.

Now set your camera (on tripod) to expose correctly for the stobes, after some experiments you will get an aperture and a shutterspeed that works.

But the shutterspeed doesnt matter much with strobes, since they flash in milli seconds. So you can  lower the shutterspeed and such get more ambient light into the camera.

In reality you may want to do more, like stepping down as well and
Move the strobes back and forth, turning them up and down, and even as a last resource fiddle with iso, it is possible to expose all light sources in the frame correctly.
In the above picture, note that also the candles are correctly exposed, and that took some experimenting.

I have had such ambient/ strobe situations, that ballanced so delicately that I had to get the right exposure by stepping up ISO.

When  I do interiors I usually bring one very powerfull strobe, that  I bounce from a corner in the cieling and let ambient light create the style or twist in the image.

WOW thanks so much for the excellent info.!!

Ron

« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2014, 17:43 »
0
http://fstoppers.com/flash-vs-hdr-for-interiors-part-ii-mood-and-color-case-study

With flash its no longer really HDR with multiple exposures and you have a lot of other stuff to think about.

The simplest and quickest way is to shoot 5 exposures per shot, instead of constantly adjusting strobes and camera settings and what not.

But Jens' explanation might give you a better result. For 200 dollar I wouldnt make it all to complicated though. Shoot and get out.

« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2014, 18:40 »
0
I realize that is will probably get me flamed, but if any of you that think that $200 is nothing, feel free to PM me for my PayPal address and you can each send me $200!  :D :D :D

« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2014, 18:50 »
0
http://fstoppers.com/flash-vs-hdr-for-interiors-part-ii-mood-and-color-case-study

With flash its no longer really HDR with multiple exposures and you have a lot of other stuff to think about.

The simplest and quickest way is to shoot 5 exposures per shot, instead of constantly adjusting strobes and camera settings and what not.

But Jens' explanation might give you a better result. For 200 dollar I wouldnt make it all to complicated though. Shoot and get out.


Thanks RON for the link -- gonna read it tonight! :)


 

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