Author Topic: Artificial Intelligence killing the whole industry (Read 64243 times)

gameover · « **Reply #275 on:** December 21, 2022, 01:41 »

Quote from: cascoly on December 20, 2022, 17:17

Quote from: gameover on December 20, 2022, 07:06
I liked very much your post and think you are right as you say that AI is a tool - but it's a disquietingly clever one.
Your words started a disturbing chain of thought that I made into a post ....

Maybe it's just me, or maybe I've read too much Asimov...

check out https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/

SF is OK, I like it a lot too. But here S<<F...

cosus · « **Reply #276 on:** December 21, 2022, 07:07 »

Quote from: derby on December 20, 2022, 17:03

Quote from: SVH on December 20, 2022, 16:47
Still,
I am (and I will not speak for the rest) a photographer. Not some guy who enters words in a software program and then creates an image with it.
A subtle difference as to "it's just a tool that helps you".

As a painter in 1890:
"Still,
I am (and I will not speak for the rest) a painter. Not some guy who push button in a mechanical machine and then creates an image with it.
A subtle difference as to "it's just a tool that helps you"
"

Sorry, nothing against you, I'm not trying to be sarcastic: just to remind that your exact words was used against the machine you're actually using, the camera

But camera is creating photos, not paintings. It opened whole new world and replaced some areas of the old and very small world of paintings. Here AI wil create both "photos" and "paintings" or illustrations of any kind. It will not open new world in this very moment, just will replace most of the old one. Only editorial photos will survive and very specific areas of illustration - some conceptual and maybe humor (for some time).

So you can now happily generate hundreds of fantastic "paintings", even you are not painter but you get a tool to be a painter. But your only real skill is to see and correct mistakes that AI is doing so far. Half of human beings can do it. So you will soon compete with millions of other and cheaper human not-painters.

And the funny idea on the end - you are only tool to train AI to create images without mistakes. Happy generating!

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #277 on:** December 21, 2022, 13:25 »

Quote from: cascoly on December 20, 2022, 17:17

Quote from: gameover on December 20, 2022, 07:06
I liked very much your post and think you are right as you say that AI is a tool - but it's a disquietingly clever one.
Your words started a disturbing chain of thought that I made into a post ....

Maybe it's just me, or maybe I've read too much Asimov...

check out https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/

#1 unplug the computers?

His premise starts to get strange around this part "
AIs could recruit human allies, tele-operate robots and other military equipment, make money via research and quantitative trading, etc.
At a high level, I think we should be worried if a huge (competitive with world population) and rapidly growing set of highly skilled humans on another planet was trying to take down civilization just by using the Internet. So we should be worried about a large set of disembodied AIs as well.
"
They could tele-operate robots and military equipment, for what gain? What need is there for money if the AI controls everything? highly skilled humans on another planet Realy, now we are back to War of the Worlds kind of scenarios? Disembodied AI will be like alien invaders?

Could some AI network manipulate the entire human population? Whoever controls the network, controls the world.

Lets say all the "good" people in the world say, we won't create any AI that could take over. We won't create AI... How would they have the knowledge of how that AI works, when someone evil tries to build the system to take over the world? In other words, the best defense, is to understand the weapon that will be used to attack us. Maybe create something that can defeat it?

But I still say, if some AI network starts to self create, flip the switch, turn it off.

cascoly · « **Reply #278 on:** December 22, 2022, 14:45 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 21, 2022, 13:25

Quote from: cascoly on December 20, 2022, 17:17
Quote from: gameover on December 20, 2022, 07:06
I liked very much your post and think you are right as you say that AI is a tool - but it's a disquietingly clever one.
Your words started a disturbing chain of thought that I made into a post ....

Maybe it's just me, or maybe I've read too much Asimov...

check out https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/

#1 unplug the computers?

His premise starts to get strange around this part "
AIs could recruit human allies, tele-operate robots and other military equipment, make money via research and quantitative trading, etc.
At a high level, I think we should be worried if a huge (competitive with world population) and rapidly growing set of highly skilled humans on another planet was trying to take down civilization just by using the Internet. So we should be worried about a large set of disembodied AIs as well.
"
They could tele-operate robots and military equipment, for what gain? What need is there for money if the AI controls everything? highly skilled humans on another planet Realy, now we are back to War of the Worlds kind of scenarios? Disembodied AI will be like alien invaders?

Could some AI network manipulate the entire human population? Whoever controls the network, controls the world.

Lets say all the "good" people in the world say, we won't create any AI that could take over. We won't create AI... How would they have the knowledge of how that AI works, when someone evil tries to build the system to take over the world? In other words, the best defense, is to understand the weapon that will be used to attack us. Maybe create something that can defeat it?

But I still say, if some AI network starts to self create, flip the switch, turn it off.

that post has been followed by more details & addresses the points you raise - esp'ly about whether 'good' companies should develop dangerous AI to counter those who don't care

https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-safety-seems-hard-to-measure/

overall summary & references
https://www.cold-takes.com/most-important-century/

Her Ugliness · « **Reply #279 on:** December 23, 2022, 03:46 »

I am really curious to have the same conversation with all of you in a couple of years.

Right now there seem to be a lot of artist who jump on the trainwagon, seeing there is easy money for them to be made with AI generated images. So they claim it's "just a tool" for them and everything is fine and it's not basically the first step towards the end of human made art. Hey, that's just advanced technology, we have to go with the time and can't stop progress, right?

But I am curious to see what they think once they realize that this is not just a "tool" for them, but also for the customers.
How long will it take till the last customer has realized that instead of going to a microstick agency site or a self hosted photographer/artist site or even commissioning an artist/photographer for lots of money, all he needs to do is to go to midjourney, DALL-E or whatever other AI image generation sites are or will be out there and can just describe to the AI what he needs, instead of entering the words in a microstiock search bar or describing it to the artist? 1 year? 5 years? The way things are progressing why do you think the customer will even have a need for you as a traditional or digital artist or photographer in the future? Someone who needs an image will not need you as a "middle man" to describe stuff to the AI and re-sell what the AI creates for you, he will eventually just go to the AI site and describe what he needs to it himself. "AI picture describer" is not something I really see as a job to bring in money in the future.

And the whole problem goes much further than this. The next step after AI generated paintings and photos will be AI generated videos, AI generated stories, AI generated music. In a 100 years there won't be any artists left, because who ever will persuit art, if no one can live from it anymore, because an AI can do it faster and cheaper than you anyways. And that's incredibly sad, because humanity is basically killing off part of what makes it human. I am glad I will not live long enough to see that art-deprived mankind where human creativity has been snuffed out.

Her Ugliness · « **Reply #280 on:** December 23, 2022, 07:53 »

cascoly · « **Reply #281 on:** December 23, 2022, 13:45 »

Quote from: Her Ugliness on December 23, 2022, 03:46

...

And the whole problem goes much further than this. The next step after AI generated paintings and photos will be AI generated videos, AI generated stories, AI generated music. In a 100 years there won't be any artists left, because who ever will persuit art, if no one can live from it anymore, because an AI can do it faster and cheaper than you anyways. And that's incredibly sad, because humanity is basically killing off part of what makes it human. I am glad I will not live long enough to see that art-deprived mankind where human creativity has been snuffed out.

yes, likely next steps - but what difference are you making by hiding your head in the sand while some of us see the future and are learning to deal with it. it's not a fast buck, it's facing reality.

if you've actually used an AI you'd realize that sending a phrase doesn't automatically create usable images without a good deal of post-processing. & buying from agencies will still be cheaper than paying salary & benefits to an in-house AI user.

Her Ugliness · « **Reply #282 on:** December 24, 2022, 02:33 »

Quote from: cascoly on December 23, 2022, 13:45

yes, likely next steps - but what difference are you making by hiding your head in the sand while some of us see the future and are learning to deal with it. it's not a fast buck, it's facing reality.

if you've actually used an AI you'd realize that sending a phrase doesn't automatically create usable images without a good deal of post-processing. & buying from agencies will still be cheaper than paying salary & benefits to an in-house AI user.

Why do you think you are "learning to deal with it" in regards to the problem in my post, meaning, how are you learning to deal with the fact that in the future customers will enter their search terms in AI image generators instead of microstock sites and you won't be needed to do that for them?

Yes, I have tried AIs and I have realized that they are not producing satisfying results. That's why I am talking about the future. AIs are learning fast. If you have seen the video someone posted here of a comparison of how drastically midjourney results for the same description improved within just a couple of months (here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4lY2TjqNTs ), you must realize that your "post processing service" will not be needed in the future.

Jaggy · « **Reply #283 on:** December 24, 2022, 07:25 »

In 1977, I was working for IBM and we had all started using this word processor called Script. It was so much easier than sending stuff out to get typed.

After a couple of months, a memo comes down from management. Please stop using Script as the staff in the typing pool don't have enough work.

Well, word processors are still with us and typing pools have disappeared.

If the technology is decent, if it does the job and if people like it, then they will use it. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth isn't going to change that.

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #284 on:** December 24, 2022, 11:18 »

Quote from: Her Ugliness on December 24, 2022, 02:33

you must realize that your "post processing service" will not be needed in the future.

I am sorry but I have a different perspective. They will all be here in the future but probably in different manners.
I find interesting to have this tool available like any other in the past and i don't see a straight correlation to a dystopian/utopian future.

Of course AI changed the game but new services and new type of works will rise.

In past months i see more companies hiring creative people and setting their own creative/communication department instead of hiring an external company to do that. Mainly to deal with social media where you have to post a lot of content (nearly 20 different posts/day across platforms). Ai will really help here for sure. It will help to elaborate new concepts/ideas to be created, produced and distributed on same day. Microstock will still be there to help too since i don't see AI producing reality if you need it (news, documentaries, happenings, etc).

Wish you all a Merry Christmas!

cascoly · « **Reply #285 on:** December 24, 2022, 14:11 »

Quote from: Her Ugliness on December 24, 2022, 02:33

Quote from: cascoly on December 23, 2022, 13:45

yes, likely next steps - but what difference are you making by hiding your head in the sand while some of us see the future and are learning to deal with it. it's not a fast buck, it's facing reality.

if you've actually used an AI you'd realize that sending a phrase doesn't automatically create usable images without a good deal of post-processing. & buying from agencies will still be cheaper than paying salary & benefits to an in-house AI user.

Why do you think you are "learning to deal with it" in regards to the problem in my post, meaning, how are you learning to deal with the fact that in the future customers will enter their search terms in AI image generators instead of microstock sites and you won't be needed to do that for them?..,.

because it's not a 'fact' - just your improbable prediction - there's no reason to believe most customers will switch for reasons discussed here many times. they can buy images for pennies rather than pay the cost of an employee's time to create images

'dealing w it' = accepting it's coming (even faster by your estimates!) but your solution is to surrender w/o adjusting - just as many film photographers lost by refusing to adapt to digital. luddites are always on the wrong side of innovation & history

offisapup · « **Reply #286 on:** December 25, 2022, 06:49 »

Quote from: Jaggy on December 24, 2022, 07:25

In 1977, I was working for IBM and we had all started using this word processor called Script. It was so much easier than sending stuff out to get typed.

After a couple of months, a memo comes down from management. Please stop using Script as the staff in the typing pool don't have enough work.

Well, word processors are still with us and typing pools have disappeared.

If the technology is decent, if it does the job and if people like it, then they will use it. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth isn't going to change that.

Those typists were eventually out of work and had to go learn to do something else. Artists and photographers today would be fools to think that's not going to happen to them. Most commercial artists and photographers (except those working in extremely niche segments that's not replicable by AI) are going to be out of a job in a few years. They're going to have to learn to make money some other way.

The argument isn't that "this Dall-E Chat GPT thing is evil and should be stopped" but that this thing is coming fast so you better have a backup plan in place in case it swallows all the income you generate with your work today.

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #287 on:** December 25, 2022, 23:52 »

Quote from: offisapup on December 25, 2022, 06:49

Artists and photographers today would be fools to think that's not going to happen to them. Most commercial artists and photographers (except those working in extremely niche segments that's not replicable by AI) are going to be out of a job in a few years. They're going to have to learn to make money some other way.

I think it will happen to everybody and not just artists! AI generative like midjourney, Dall-e or Stable are a very small drop in the AI ocean. People in all areas are adapting AI as tool to improve performance. It's in Agriculture, industries, health, Finance, Economy, Banking, Security, weather, news, marketing, etc... do you think everybody will be out of job in a few years?

But let's stick to photography... Photoshop is implementing AI, Cameras are implementing AI to improve shooting, object recognition, Image stabilization, Shooting alone with no human in hazard environments, deep tracking, etc...

In that sense why companies of photography or Post production are developing and implementing AI in their products?
Following your logic no one will invest in development new AI cameras since we have Ai generative tools, right?
But that's not happening is it?

On the other hand, marketing is betting much more in User-generated content (tiktok, unboxing videos, real people reviews, travel vlogers, people doing tutorials) which is real and authentic. However marketing is relying on AI to analyze data from consumers...

Therefore like with computer in past, now...people are adapting and taking advantage to improve their work with AI. I don't think one will dilute the other. At least for now

cobalt · « **Reply #288 on:** December 26, 2022, 02:52 »

Customers can already use their mobile phone to fill most of their photography needs if they wanted to. The quality you can get from the high end models is incredibly.

And yet they still hire photographers for events and business portraits and still buy content from agencies.

The only real difference is that now they also need amateurish looking photos for social media content and especially on eyeem I was making good money providing exactly that until everything at eyeem stopped working.

It will be the same with ai. Customers buy it on agencies, because they simply don‘t have the time to produce the content themselves.

Large companies already employ designers, but even they usually buy from agencies. I am sure they will employ ais to speed up their workflow, but it will not replace them. It will simply give them more options.

offisapup · « **Reply #289 on:** December 26, 2022, 03:33 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 26, 2022, 02:52

Customers can already use their mobile phone to fill most of their photography needs if they wanted to. The quality you can get from the high end models is incredibly.

And yet they still hire photographers for events and business portraits and still buy content from agencies.

There's a big difference between "still hiring and buying" and "hiring and buying like they used to".

Do you think it's easier to make a living off photography and stock photography today than 10 years ago? It's precisely because it's far easier to take acceptable images today that there's a glut of images in the market and the agencies are racing to the bottom to scrape for ever lower demand. And with a glut of easily produceable AI images entering the market in the next few years, you're not just competing with millions of other humans but computers as well. I'll let you decide what that's going to do to the already saturated market.

Pacesetter · « **Reply #290 on:** December 27, 2022, 15:35 »

So contributors are (not asked) just expected now to freely donate images and videos for the purpose of customers generating their own content which they can either use or go on and sell themselves?

If this is where it's heading I wonder how long the big contributors close their ports. Seems no use to create and upload for the benefit of everyone else except the contributor producing the content, often at cost. But then again, agencies seem to be getting their way with almost everything now and contributors aren't going anywhere.

Imagine traveling some distance to view a home for sale or rent.

"Oh this looks nothing like the photos I saw online?"

"Of course not! Those photos were made from AI"

"Heh???"

"It's progress... Welcome to the Big Brave New World of Fakeness Bull Sh!t"

cobalt · « **Reply #291 on:** December 28, 2022, 05:49 »

„Imagine traveling some distance to view a home for sale or rent.

"Oh this looks nothing like the photos I saw online?"

"Of course not! Those photos were made from AI"

"Heh???"“

"It's progress... Welcome to the Big Brave New World of Fakeness Bull Sh!t"

That would be fraud and mean that that real estate agent will never get a home offered to be sold again. And you don‘t need an ai to create lies with photos…

Most people who I see complaining about ai have never used one.

It is a tool like photoshop and needs a lot of experience.

Which customer will waste his time playing around with various prompts until they get it right?

Much easier to just download a ready made file.

The advantage of ai is that it can make it a lot easier to create „impossible things“, i.e. images that would have taken a long time to create as composite of photos and illustrations.

If you go into the ai groups you will see that it is a very tiny percentage of people who create fantastic content. And they are usually professional 3d artists or professional illustrators.

But of course, if you are sure that ai destroys everything, then it would be prudent to get out of stock now and retrain into a new profession.

By the way all the business photographers I know are still extremely busy making money. But they simply know what they are doing. Even if they use a mobile phone, the quality they produces is lightyears better than what customers do themselves.

I am sure some artists will soon offer ai services as part of what they do. But they need to be able to create reliable results and at the moment that is still complicated.

But it will come.

It is your business, if for you it is all over, just leave and do something else. Others will see it as an intersting opportunity.

Her Ugliness · « **Reply #292 on:** December 28, 2022, 06:45 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 28, 2022, 05:49

Which customer will waste his time playing around with various prompts until they get it right?

And you think customers enter search terms in a microstock search bar and get exactly what they want right on the first or even 50th page or even at all? Have you actually ever tried buying/finding images in microstock databases? Because i have and 90% of the time it's going through countless images that have irrelevant keywords and don't even show anything close to what you want.
Most will take the first image that pops up that is good enough and roughly serves the purpose for which they need it. Hardly any customers try around and browse the database "until they get it right", so why should it be different with AI generated images and the first results they get should not be close enough?
The few customers who take the effort to search in microstock databases for hours to find exactly what they want will also take the effort with AIs.

cosus · « **Reply #293 on:** December 28, 2022, 06:50 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 28, 2022, 05:49

It is your business, if for you it is all over, just leave and do something else. Others will see it as an intersting opportunity.

Ai will affect all markets and definitelly the amount of money for artist and photographers will be lower. I don't want to be rude, but average photographers who get the "tool" to be "painters" instantly can see it as opportunity, but in future only people who are in some way different or exceptional will survive on the digital market.
And don't forget that the Ai is developing rapidly. If now there are some dificulties (fingers or so), few years from now it will be much easier to use with even better results.

Pacesetter · « **Reply #294 on:** December 28, 2022, 07:52 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 28, 2022, 05:49

„Imagine traveling some distance to view a home for sale or rent.

"Oh this looks nothing like the photos I saw online?"

"Of course not! Those photos were made from AI"

"Heh???"“

"It's progress... Welcome to the Big Brave New World of Fakeness Bull Sh!t"

That would be fraud and mean that that real estate agent will never get a home offered to be sold again. And you don‘t need an ai to create lies with photos…

Most people who I see complaining about ai have never used one.

It is a tool like photoshop and needs a lot of experience.

Which customer will waste his time playing around with various prompts until they get it right?

Much easier to just download a ready made file.

The advantage of ai is that it can make it a lot easier to create „impossible things“, i.e. images that would have taken a long time to create as composite of photos and illustrations.

If you go into the ai groups you will see that it is a very tiny percentage of people who create fantastic content. And they are usually professional 3d artists or professional illustrators.

But of course, if you are sure that ai destroys everything, then it would be prudent to get out of stock now and retrain into a new profession.

By the way all the business photographers I know are still extremely busy making money. But they simply know what they are doing. Even if they use a mobile phone, the quality they produces is lightyears better than what customers do themselves.

I am sure some artists will soon offer ai services as part of what they do. But they need to be able to create reliable results and at the moment that is still complicated.

But it will come.

It is your business, if for you it is all over, just leave and do something else. Others will see it as an intersting opportunity.

I do mainly aerial drone landmarks, landscapes and cityscapes video. So unless the AI boogeyman is coming to take over this market then I'm not going anywhere.

And if AI does take over this and similar content then you've got way bigger problems to concern yourself with than me and others complaining on these forums.

cobalt · « **Reply #295 on:** December 28, 2022, 09:09 »

I am not worried at all.

On the contrary, I am quite excited about the possibilities that ai brings and will make an effort to learn how to use the new tool to my advantage.

I just see a lot of „the world is ending“ „the ai is coming for us“ everywhere and thought it might help discussions to offer a positive outlook.

Jaggy · « **Reply #296 on:** December 28, 2022, 11:05 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 28, 2022, 09:09

I am not worried at all.

On the contrary, I am quite excited about the possibilities that ai brings and will make an effort to learn how to use the new tool to my advantage.

I just see a lot of „the world is ending“ „the ai is coming for us“ everywhere and thought it might help discussions to offer a positive outlook.

I'm fatalistic about it. If AI is good and meets a need then it will get used. However, in my time on this earth, I've seen technologies come and technologies go. I've seen industries change, job roles disappear and new ones get created. Nothing stays static, everything changes (except death and taxes). It's not the end of the world, it never is. Just need to roll with the punches.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #297 on:** December 28, 2022, 11:51 »

Quote from: Jaggy on December 28, 2022, 11:05

Quote from: cobalt on December 28, 2022, 09:09
I am not worried at all.

On the contrary, I am quite excited about the possibilities that ai brings and will make an effort to learn how to use the new tool to my advantage.

I just see a lot of „the world is ending“ „the ai is coming for us“ everywhere and thought it might help discussions to offer a positive outlook.

I'm fatalistic about it. If AI is good and meets a need then it will get used. However, in my time on this earth, I've seen technologies come and technologies go. I've seen industries change, job roles disappear and new ones get created. Nothing stays static, everything changes (except death and taxes). It's not the end of the world, it never is. Just need to roll with the punches.

You mean like when Digital Cameras took over for film cameras?

Yes it was a good one.

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #298 on:** December 28, 2022, 13:40 »

Quote from: Jaggy on December 28, 2022, 11:05

If AI is good and meets a need then it will get used.

I couldn't agree more with you. Perhaps some people will be surprised but AI has helped during the pandemic:

1. Predicting outbreaks
Not many people realize, but it was actually an AI-automated system that first alerted the wider world to COVID-19.

2. Protecting the vulnerable
When you can predict something, you can prepare for it. That’s the goal of several AI researchers who are building models to protect vulnerable populations from COVID-19 and other viral diseases.

3. Contact tracing
The model helped identify close contacts faster, and even potential super spreaders and hot-spot suburbs.

4. Research and development
AWS has launched CORD-19 Search, built on the Allen Institute for AI’s open dataset of more than 128,000 research papers, to quickly allow scientists to look-up questions about COVID-19. AI is even help in the race for COVID vaccines and anti-viral drugs. In 2020, a UK company, BenevolentAI, used an AI drug discovery platform to figure out which compounds stood the best chance against COVID-19.

You can find a nice article about this here: https://online.rmit.edu.au/blog/4-ways-ai-has-helped-during-pandemic

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #299 on:** December 28, 2022, 14:04 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 28, 2022, 09:09

...and will make an effort to learn how to use the new tool to my advantage...

I wouldn't bother. The interface will get more user friendly and the results better so fast even the minimal effort to learn how to use it now is time wasted. Just wait a couple of months and it will be a lot more intuitive. No point learning typesetting cast metal sorts when the wordprocessor will be invented before you can master it. AI will be able to do the post processing much better and faster than us soon enough.

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Author Topic: Artificial Intelligence killing the whole industry (Read 64243 times)

gameover

cosus

Uncle Pete

cascoly

Her Ugliness

Her Ugliness

cascoly

Her Ugliness

Jaggy

Evaristo tenscadisto

cascoly

offisapup

Evaristo tenscadisto

cobalt

offisapup

Pacesetter

cobalt

Her Ugliness

cosus

Pacesetter

cobalt

Jaggy

Uncle Pete

Evaristo tenscadisto

Justanotherphotographer

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