Quote from: cobalt on December 28, 2022, 09:09

...and will make an effort to learn how to use the new tool to my advantage...

I wouldn't bother. The interface will get more user friendly and the results better so fast even the minimal effort to learn how to use it now is time wasted. Just wait a couple of months and it will be a lot more intuitive. No point learning typesetting cast metal sorts when the wordprocessor will be invented before you can master it. AI will be able to do the post processing much better and faster than us soon enough.

thus becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy of doom. and those who adapt will at least have a chance rather than none at all. it's dancing among elephants - few will be Stieglitz or Ansel Adams, but niches are there to be exploited.  Not every buyer will even have a specific need when they're looking to illustrate a concept 


the wordprocessor didn't put all writers out of work, it streamlined the process.

oldtime programmers will remember the idea of desk checking - spending time checking & rechecking code for typos, logic errors,etc before submitting to be keypunched, then getting time on THE computer, only to have it spit out a vague "you've got errors" msg. Along came interactive compilers that displayed your errors, then suites that did large parts of design. downloadable drivers eliminated coding for each device; internet browsers replaced programming modem input/output; databases replaced the need to for coding the most efficient sorting algorithms  ('bubble sort' anyone? 'hashing' algorithms? linked lists?)  we had workarounds that did multi-tasking before windows, and modems & semi-hard disks were useful, but they were cumbersome & limited.  each step eliminated some work/ers but those who swam with the flow had more interesting careers (and higher salaries). many computer consultants would not be able to find work if they had to constantly re-create the wheel.

now chat &others are starting to write code, but people will still be needed to design the app. (and current state of design needs more intelligence in general - with too many poorly designed apps being thrown untested into the wild with horrible design flaws)

I am really curious to have the same conversation with all of you in a couple of years.

Right now there seem to be a lot of artist who jump on the trainwagon, seeing there is easy money for them to be made with AI generated images. So they claim it's "just a tool" for them and everything is fine and it's not basically the first step towards the end of human made art. Hey, that's just advanced technology, we have to go with the time and can't stop progress, right?

But I am curious to see what they think once they realize that this is not just a "tool" for them, but also for the customers.
How long will it take till the last customer has realized that instead of going to a microstick agency site or a self hosted photographer/artist site or even commissioning an artist/photographer for lots of money, all he needs to do is to go to midjourney, DALL-E or whatever other AI image generation sites are or will be out there and can just describe to the AI what he needs, instead of entering the words in a microstiock search bar or describing it to the artist? 1 year? 5 years? The way things are progressing why do you think the customer will even have a need for you as a traditional or digital artist or photographer in the future? Someone who needs an image will not need you as a "middle man" to describe stuff to the AI and re-sell what the AI creates for you, he will eventually just go to the AI site and describe what he needs to it himself. "AI picture describer" is not something I really see as a job to bring in money in the future.

And the whole problem goes much further than this. The next step after AI generated paintings and photos will be AI generated videos, AI generated stories, AI generated music. In a 100 years there won't be any artists left, because who ever will persuit art, if no one can live from it anymore, because an AI can do it faster and cheaper than you anyways. And that's incredibly sad, because humanity is basically killing off part of what makes it human.  I am glad I will  not live long enough to see that art-deprived mankind where human creativity has been snuffed out.

I don't agree, even until now customers were free to invest in their own tools (lets say cameras, or paint and brushes ) , invest even more time and learn how to use them and create professional level images. Is it really as simple as that ?

Even with AI, someone will not just be able to buy some credits and create something they need at the level of someone else who invested enormous time into that. Sure, serious hobbyist will be able to go really high in the quality of their work but they were able to do so in photography also.

The biggest problem that I see is in the actual amount of work someone is going to be able to produce in small amount of time when he finds his style which will have to be tricky to reproduce if that someone wants to stay recognizable. We are talking about the ability to create a full portfolio in couple of sleepless nights which until now it would takes years to create.

I'm sure there will be superstar AI artists with unique styles which will brand their work under their their name, earn based on social presence, more or less like in any form or art in the history.

Also I'm really against stuff that started to happen when people use at the end of their prompts "in style of artist name". In my opinion that's not only stealing the style, that's stealing the whole identity and brand that someone worked his butt for.

In case of machine learning I'm really not against that that much because there is not an artist in the history of the world that has not stolen part of his style or work from someone else. But when you mention that name to get more attention, or to build your style...that's a problem.

 

LOL I get the joke.

Quote from: TonyD on December 30, 2022, 03:34

I just got an email from SS titled: Contributor earnings now reflect generative AI Here's the first paragraph of the email:

News for artist recognition in advanced technology worldwide, and news for Shutterstock contributors!
You will now accrue royalties when your IP is used in the training of AI-generative models or used for licensing of generative assets created using Shutterstock�s software. Contributing artists can view their earnings in their account in the Earnings Summary 'By month' tab as 'Contributor fund.'

This is gonna be a few cents so they are able to reduce the likelihood of a successful lawsuit. And it is gonna be only for a few years until we are completely phased out.

this is what we've been saying all along - each artist is a tiny drop among 200 million images they can use for training

and the overhyped fears are just silly - why would they delete those 200 million images which are already highly placed on google?  shift happens

assuming they used all 200 million, based on my numbers, the payout seems to be about .3 cents ($.003)  /image. so someone w 10K images would get about $30 - does that correlate with what others have reported?

Yeah it's an obvious move to minimize potential legal damage.

Quote from: TonyD on December 30, 2022, 03:34

I just got an email from SS titled: Contributor earnings now reflect generative AI Here's the first paragraph of the email:

News for artist recognition in advanced technology worldwide, and news for Shutterstock contributors!
You will now accrue royalties when your IP is used in the training of AI-generative models or used for licensing of generative assets created using Shutterstock�s software. Contributing artists can view their earnings in their account in the Earnings Summary 'By month' tab as 'Contributor fund.'

There are probably those on the forum who will not be allowed to use their work for AI training. )))))

I don't see why some "will not be allowed" to have their images used for AI training, but otherwise, I will not allow that, when given the option.

Quote from: Zero Talent on December 30, 2022, 18:34

Quote from: TonyD on December 30, 2022, 03:34

I just got an email from SS titled: Contributor earnings now reflect generative AI Here's the first paragraph of the email:

News for artist recognition in advanced technology worldwide, and news for Shutterstock contributors!
You will now accrue royalties when your IP is used in the training of AI-generative models or used for licensing of generative assets created using Shutterstock�s software. Contributing artists can view their earnings in their account in the Earnings Summary 'By month' tab as 'Contributor fund.'

...
, but otherwise, I will not allow that, when given the option.

problem is, you've already given them permission according to the TOS you agreed to.  SS may choose to allow people to opt out but haven't done so yet

I understand that.

This is what SS specified in their FAQ:

Can I opt out of having my content included in future datasets / data deals?
Yes, in the coming months we will be adding an option in the contributor account settings that will allow you to opt out of having your content included in future datasets, also known as data deals.

Quote from: Zero Talent on December 30, 2022, 21:42

Quote from: cascoly on December 30, 2022, 20:45

Quote from: Zero Talent on December 30, 2022, 18:34

Quote from: TonyD on December 30, 2022, 03:34

I just got an email from SS titled: Contributor earnings now reflect generative AI Here's the first paragraph of the email:

News for artist recognition in advanced technology worldwide, and news for Shutterstock contributors!
You will now accrue royalties when your IP is used in the training of AI-generative models or used for licensing of generative assets created using Shutterstock�s software. Contributing artists can view their earnings in their account in the Earnings Summary 'By month' tab as 'Contributor fund.'

...
, but otherwise, I will not allow that, when given the option.

problem is, you've already given them permission according to the TOS you agreed to.  SS may choose to allow people to opt out but haven't done so yet

I understand that.

This is what SS specified in their FAQ:

Can I opt out of having my content included in future datasets / data deals?
Yes, in the coming months we will be adding an option in the contributor account settings that will allow you to opt out of having your content included in future datasets, also known as data deals.

Translates to "when we are done processing your images you will be able to opt out"

I expect an exciting announcement coming soon, now that we are into the new year.

Quote from: cascoly on December 28, 2022, 17:46

...the wordprocessor didn't put all writers out of work, it streamlined the process.
...

No but that wasn't what I was saying. It did put all typesetters out of work. We are the typesetters not the authors. AI isn�t going to stop at just the right level to make it possible for you to make saleable work with its help, it will shoot right by you.

Typesetters were already put out of work when Linotype was invented, offset printing came in and lead slugs were history. Then we had galleys and paste up, which was replaced by machines. The word processor just replaced the typewriter as one machine made writing easier. Letterpress is dead except for special uses.

AI is going to replace some things and supplement others, but it's not going to replace individual artists or creativity.

ps I tried to point this out once before, but resistance to change is pretty strong and especially when backed with denial. Microstock is already dead, therefore AI can't kill it.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 01, 2023, 10:32

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on January 01, 2023, 09:59

Quote from: cascoly on December 28, 2022, 17:46

...the wordprocessor didn't put all writers out of work, it streamlined the process.
...

No but that wasn't what I was saying. It did put all typesetters out of work. We are the typesetters not the authors. AI isn�t going to stop at just the right level to make it possible for you to make saleable work with its help, it will shoot right by you.

Typesetters were already put out of work when offset printing came in. Letterpress is dead except for special uses. AI is going to replace some things and supplement others, but it's not going to replace individual artists or creativity.

ps I tried to point this out once before, but resistance to change is pretty strong and especially when backed with denial. Microstock is already dead, therefore AI can't kill it.

I am taliking about us a stock image creators, not artists in general. Not sure what you mean by "Microstock is already dead" plenty of people have been doing fine so far.

And there's a heap of denial. Most people aren't, so don't use "plenty of people" which is the minority, as your supporting argument.

Some people still ride horses and drive wagons, some ride bicycles or use public transportation, and they are doing just fine without an automobile.

Microstock as a stable or reliable income or even side income, where someone can get in and make some extra money, is DEAD! We're going into over ten years of decline.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 01, 2023, 10:56

And there's a heap of denial. Most people aren't, so don't use "plenty of people" which is the minority, as your supporting argument.

Some people still ride horses and drive wagons, some ride bicycles or use public transportation, and they are doing just fine without an automobile.

Microstock as a stable or reliable income or even side income, where someone can get in and make some extra money, is DEAD! We're going into over ten years of decline.

Lol, you think riding a bike or using public transport is like having a horse and cart? The more advanced countries are the ones improving their public transport and putting bike lanes everywhere. Never mind.

It�s only ever a minority that are successful in business in any field. By �plenty of people� I mean as many people as you can expect to make a business work in any field.

So far it has been possible to increase income year on year since the early 2000s, and people have managed to do that. I am not the best at what I do and have managed it. People who haven�t been able to succeed have been saying what you�re saying since 2010 at least. I thought you were �what happened to taking responsibility for your own actions/ failings� guy?

I'll try to make this easier for you to understand. Everyone doesn't own or drive a car. And they are doing just fine. Some people can't afford a car and they are also doing just fine. Plenty of people, that is. They never transitioned into what replaced the horse and buggy.

By saying Plenty of People, you would seem to mean most people. And the fact is, most people in microstock are not doing Just Fine. Most who used to be here and most who used to make supplemental income, have left, quit or moved to some other way of making money from their work.

What did I say about myself or personal responsibility? Where did that come from? I earn what I deserve, I'm not the one whining and complaining endlessly on the forum about how bad things are, or how we should get more, or how the market is dead. I'm just pointing out that people are not doing just fine.

And oh yes, Microstock is dead from the perspective of making money for someone, investing their time on equipment, making images, working to produce new images, paying models, or traveling, and also licensing the software. For most people Microstock is dead and AI is not going to kill it, because the business and trend that was beneficial for artists, is already over.

I stopped following this, but yes, you're correct, things have been going downhill since at the least 2012



Looks like plenty of people are not doing just fine with Microstock, like they once did.



ps Adobe continues to rise since they took over Fotolia. That's what I'd call doing just fine.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 02, 2023, 14:55

I'll try to make this easier for you to understand. Everyone doesn't own or drive a car. And they are doing just fine. Some people can't afford a car and they are also doing just fine. Plenty of people, that is. They never transitioned into what replaced the horse and buggy.
.

not that it really matters, but

https://edc.nyc/article/new-yorkers-and-their-cars

San Francisco is very car free also. https://sf.streetsblog.org/2014/08/15/car-free-households-are-booming-in-san-francisco/