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Author Topic: Check Out PicturEngine  (Read 37112 times)

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« Reply #225 on: November 26, 2012, 20:05 »
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Received a very rapid PM from Justin and have responded accordingly.


RacePhoto

« Reply #226 on: November 27, 2012, 03:04 »
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I was willing to try the site, but when something pops up that says $240 for PayPal billing for the beta test, I'm not sure I want to go through 90 days of trial followed by 90 days of trying to get the billing stopped. (potential problems, not accusing)

What would be nice is a real 90 days trial, that doesn't sign me up and doesn't charge to my PayPal account IN ADVANCE...

Hi RacePhoto,
The 90 day trial charges your PayPal account 1 (one) penny if you signup today.  I think PayPal does that to make sure your account is working and has a payment source attached.  So it is not actually "free" it is a penny for the first 90 days. If you are not happy, you can cancel anytime before the trial period ends via your PayPal subscriptions area, PayPal makes it pretty easy. 

Best,
JB

Thanks that $240 bill was kind of a shock.

Poncke

« Reply #227 on: November 27, 2012, 09:08 »
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You cant ignore your role as middle man Justin. You also cant ignore that hidden fees are false advertising. Passing on fees to the buyer has to be paid by someone, either by hidden charges or by the photographer.

What if the buyer files a chargeback? What if a fraudster buys a portfolio worth of images and then files a chargeback. What if a customer is not happy with the product and files a SNAD case?

We as contributors cannot interact with paypal, only you can, because its your account. You have to be middle man.

Also what will images prices look like when you add the fee for paypal to the price we set? Will we have photos with prices like  i.e. 10.59 or 15.64 instead of 10 and 15?

Anyhoo, doesnt matter, I am not signing up for now. I am going to see what happens and decide. Good luck, hope it works out for all involved.

Forgot to add: You are selling digital goods, so you dont have seller protection with paypal. Good luck dealing with complaints, snads and chargebacks. I think you are underestimating the powers of unhappy buyers and contributors and the work involved. As said before, its your paypal account, you are the only one who can deal with these cases, not the contributors.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 09:16 by Poncke »

« Reply #228 on: November 27, 2012, 09:12 »
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Ponke, I think you'd struggle to sign up now. PicturEngine has been off line for the last 4 hours or so....

lisafx

« Reply #229 on: November 27, 2012, 11:24 »
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Justin, you have posted several replies since I asked about the progress on Ktools assimilation.  I am assuming from your totally IGNORING the question that you still haven't managed it.   However, as a professional, I would expect you to at least give the inquiry the courtesy of a reply, and an update on when, if ever, we might expect this. 

If you have no plans to integrate Ktools then I would like to know so I can pursue other advertising avenues and stop wasting my time with your sales pitch. 

« Reply #230 on: November 27, 2012, 12:45 »
+1
@ Poncke - We have been working with PayPal as a merchant card processor on Corner House Stock Photo and Picturesque since 2006, and before then we used a standard bank merchant account.  PayPal is very easy to work with compared to bank merchant accounts.  As for charge backs, they will happen, and the PayPal system is equipped to deal with it smoothly and efficiently. 
Again, we stay OUT of the middle and OUT of your business.  The transaction is between you and your buyer.

Also, if it makes you "feel" better, we can easily make a selection option within your admin account which charges you for the merchant fee instead of including it in the price.  The percent rate will be based on overall PicturEngine subscriptions and sales, so the fee will be lower than you get anywhere else as an individual.  PicturEngine was built as a platform, therefore implementing something like this is no problem.  The goal is, as a group we are better off and all save more, collectively banding together resources.

@ Monty - Our servers came down for a brief maintenance this morning.  We are back up now, but without the search function for the moment.  This weekend we had more images made live by more photographers than ever before on our system.  It was a great stress test!  We have mountains of data and logs now, so we know where to allocate more resources in the future.

Also, weve received a large volume of emails this morning asking if registration is still open for the 90 day trial offer.  Weve added the link back, for now.

@ Lisa - I will try to call Jon back tomorrow to get that ball rolling.  Weve been extremely busy and YES they are still on the list to implement along with SmugMug and others.  Feel free to start bugging them too.  Let them know that you want PicturEngine implementation asap.  That may garner a faster response. :)

Poncke

« Reply #231 on: November 27, 2012, 12:52 »
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You are the middle man Justin, I have explained before why, but you seem to ignore that. Its your paypal account, noone else's

If you get a chargeback, you wont get your money back from paypal. You do NOT have seller protection on digital goods and credit card companies will always judge in favor of THEIR customers.

Never mind. Good luck.

« Reply #232 on: November 27, 2012, 13:11 »
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We can easily make a selection option within your admin account which charges you for the merchant fee instead of including it in the price.  The percent rate will be based on overall PicturEngine subscriptions and sales, so the fee will be lower than you get anywhere else as an individual.  PicturEngine was built as a platform, therefore implementing something like this is no problem.  The goal is, as a group we are better off and all save more, collectively banding together resources.

let me know your thoughts on this option as a group, it is an easy option to implement.
JB

lisafx

« Reply #233 on: November 27, 2012, 14:22 »
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@ Lisa - I will try to call Jon back tomorrow to get that ball rolling.  Weve been extremely busy and YES they are still on the list to implement along with SmugMug and others.  Feel free to start bugging them too.  Let them know that you want PicturEngine implementation asap.  That may garner a faster response. :)

I will certainly do so.  Thank you. 

« Reply #234 on: November 27, 2012, 19:17 »
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how is the buyer notified [if at all] that the paypal fees are part of the price they're paying?  is paypal the only payment method a buyer can use?

Poncke

« Reply #235 on: November 28, 2012, 02:33 »
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how is the buyer notified [if at all] that the paypal fees are part of the price they're paying?  is paypal the only payment method a buyer can use?
he said somewhere the buyer would never know there are fees. Hidden fees, I wouldnt touch that timebomb with a 50 foot pole

« Reply #236 on: November 28, 2012, 07:25 »
+3
I don't understand the obsession with Paypal fees.  The buyer should know that there are fees associated with a Paypal transaction, as there are with credit card transactions.  He should also know that he's paying those fees, one way or another.  Simply a business expense passed on to the customer.  No big deal.

« Reply #237 on: November 28, 2012, 07:34 »
+3
I don't understand the obsession with Paypal fees.  The buyer should know that there are fees associated with a Paypal transaction, as there are with credit card transactions.  He should also know that he's paying those fees, one way or another.  Simply a business expense passed on to the customer.  No big deal.

ditto.  I feel you are making a bigger deal of this than it really is Poncke

Poncke

« Reply #238 on: November 28, 2012, 14:25 »
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You are both missing the point, buyers do not pay fees using paypal. When you let the buyer pay the fee, its surcharging the buyer for using paypal. Paypal is free for buyers, thats my whole point. When I use paypal with my credit card linked and pay using the CC, I do not pay any fees either.

Paypal doesnt want their customers to be surcharged for using paypal. Thats why merchants pay fees and not the buyer.

If I am on a website to buy photos and see that I will pay a fee to use paypal, I will go elsewhere  where I wont be surcharged.

And if you dont tell the buyer the fees are included in the price, hence its called hidden fees, then its false advertising and I dont want to piss off my own customers.

Furthermore, when a buyer files a chargeback, you  cant open a dispute as the chargeback happens on the paypal account of PE.

I am just trying to help you guys.

Anyhoo, I wish you and PE all the best and I hope it all works out so I can join too. For now, no thank you.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 14:29 by Poncke »

« Reply #239 on: November 28, 2012, 18:30 »
+1
I don't understand the obsession with Paypal fees.  The buyer should know that there are fees associated with a Paypal transaction, as there are with credit card transactions.  He should also know that he's paying those fees, one way or another.  Simply a business expense passed on to the customer.  No big deal.

if paypal is the ONLY payment method, then no problem, but if buyers can also pay in a way that doesnt encur paypal fees, then it's a violation of the paypal terms to have the buyer pay a surcharge

Les

« Reply #240 on: November 29, 2012, 02:22 »
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Quote
if paypal is the ONLY payment method, then no problem, but if buyers can also pay in a way that doesnt encur paypal fees, then it's a violation of the paypal terms to have the buyer pay a surcharge
You may be confusing Paypal with eBay. eBay indeed forces the sellers to absorb the Paypal fees.
On the other hand, sellers who advertise their goods on other platforms, such Craigslist, Photography Forums Buy&Sell sections, etc. are routinely adding 3% for Paypal processing fees.
 

« Reply #241 on: December 04, 2012, 21:45 »
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nope - read your paypal terms of service:

4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

paypal's been pretty forceful in freezing accounts in general, so i wou;ldnt want to get caught in such obvious violation
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 21:54 by cascoly »


Les

« Reply #242 on: December 05, 2012, 01:57 »
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Personally, I wouldn't call it "surcharge".
Processing or handling fee sounds just fine and that's what it is.


« Reply #243 on: December 05, 2012, 02:51 »
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Personally, I wouldn't call it "surcharge".
Processing or handling fee sounds just fine and that's what it is.

whatever you call it, it's a violation of your paypal agreement - someone selling on craigslist might get away with it once or twice, but would you risk your business over a 2% charge on $1 at a time?   that's why it's important to know how PE intends to handle this, for anyone considering working with them.

« Reply #244 on: December 05, 2012, 11:27 »
+1
Several of you are getting the point of PicturEngine and seeing that the forest extends beyond the trees.  Its very difficult to start a new agency/platform (or whatever) without breaking through the critical mass barrier first.  Before reaching critical mass, its not worth the time and money advertising (for 100 niche photographers or even 500,000 niche images) because the biggest bang for the buck in advertising is NOT niche, its general, its everyone, and its BIG!  PicturEngine solves this critical mass problem, from day ONE.  With PicturEngine there is no need to target advertising to a highly specific group or niche, such as home related or travel related buyers, as we do with my other two agencies.  Every image buyer is a prospective client to use PicturEngine.  PicturEngine just makes image buying easier.  Many who are asking about our advertising/marketing plan need to remember we already have a sizable image buying client base (over 40k confirmed image buyers and growing daily) from our established agencies.  Many of our image buyers do specialize in houses/home lifestyle or travel/scenic, however, most of our buyers work for advertising agencies and have multiple clients.  Weve been doing this long enough to know what effectively generates traffic and licenses images, and are also smart enough not to share our knowledge with potential competition (that is surely monitoring these forums).

PicturEngine is a brand, just as Google is a brand. We go to a search engine to find what we need.  We are not new, as I personally come from the background of both creating and licensing stock, and know the holes that need to be filled.  We have studied other platforms, where they succeed and where they have failed, and are bringing PicturEngine to the market with eyes wide open knowing what needs to be done to succeed.   

The purpose of our recent push for the PicturEngine photographer platform is to get content onboard that is NOT currently at agencies, bringing our image buying audience truly unique content, right alongside the same ol stuff they can find repeatedly at agencies, but with duplicates removed to make the search faster, easier, and just better.  Our advertising campaign will be unique and insightful, not only advertising for the same agencies people already use, but image buyers will regularly return to see what new and wonderful things our photographers and smaller agencies are adding to the mix.

The PicturEngine photographer platform is not for everyone, just as stock photography is not for everyone.  Studying years of hard data tells us PicturEngine becomes cost effective with collections of over 1,000 unique images.  If you dont yet have 1,000 unique images in your portfolio or collection, keep us on your radar for when you do.  Some of you mentioned image storage as a factor.  Storing 1,000 10MB Jpegs at Rackspace is about a dollar ($1.00 USD) per month.  For the speed and peace of mind, $1/ month is not a high price to pay.

One last point I want to clarify, PicturEngine is NOT an agency.  I am posting on this forum because some microstock photographers showed an interest and registered for the platform early on.  They were tired of the current direction of the microstock industry and decided to do something positive about it.  Thats what PicturEngine is all about.

JB

« Reply #245 on: December 05, 2012, 12:49 »
+1

first, it would be appreciated if you answered the paypal question --who is going to pay the surcharge & how is it explained?




.  Its very difficult to start a new agency/platform (or whatever) without breaking through the critical mass barrier first.  Before reaching critical mass, its not worth the time and money advertising (for 100 niche photographers or even 500,000 niche images) because the biggest bang for the buck in advertising is NOT niche, its general, its everyone, and its BIG!  PicturEngine solves this critical mass problem, from day ONE. ......  Many who are asking about our advertising/marketing plan need to remember we already have a sizable image buying client base (over 40k confirmed image buyers and growing daily) from our established agencies.  ...... Weve been doing this long enough to know what effectively generates traffic and licenses images, and are also smart enough not to share our knowledge with potential competition (that is surely monitoring these forums).



sorry, but secret plans for victory sound too much like nixon's plan to end the vietnam war - invoking the need for security & secrecy just covers up the basic idea that you are asking us to PAY for a claim that has yet to be proven!  you have no proof, or even a beta testrun that "PicturEngine solves this critical mass problem, from day ONE. "  -- instead you're asking us to fund your research, investing time, and possibly significant cash.  what are your projections for the first 3 months?  will the average portfolio achieve $50/mo in that short time when today there are NO buyers using the system?

« Reply #246 on: December 06, 2012, 11:26 »
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first, it would be appreciated if you answered the paypal question --who is going to pay the surcharge & how is it explained?

This has been answered (many times over).  We have been using PayPal for many years and are not violating any of the PayPal or credit card terms. 

Anyone, buying anything online, fully, totally, and completely understands, that businesses have to cover processing costs when selling items online.  Furthermore, they (buyers of online content) understand that transactional costs (of doing business online, such as digital monetary transactions) are built into the price of goods purchased online.  This is not spelled out, as it is understood as simply doing business online. 

PayPal and credit card companies take issue when brick and mortar businesses give the option to use PayPal or a credit card at the register (as a convenience to the customer) instead of cash, and then charge the customer an additional processing fee for that convenience.  We have ONE price (the license fee you set, plus the fee to process it, and you keep 100% of that license fee).  We do not offer cash as a payment option.

From PayPal:
Parallel payments enable a sender to send a single payment to multiple receivers. For example, your application might be a shopping cart that enables a buyer to pay for items from several merchants with one payment. Your shopping cart allocates the payment to merchants that actually provided the items. PayPal then deducts money from the sender's account and deposits it in the receivers' accounts.

I hope this helps you better understand the platform.
JB

Poncke

« Reply #247 on: December 06, 2012, 12:23 »
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This is not spelled out, as it is understood as simply doing business online. 

Thats a load of rubbish

« Reply #248 on: December 06, 2012, 12:39 »
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This is not spelled out, as it is understood as simply doing business online. 

Thats a load of rubbish

Yeah, I don't understand your fixation here.  The buyer buys an image, the amount covers the licensing and costs of transaction.  Do you think the seller is supposed to have two wallets?  One for incoming payments, and some other wallet that holds money he made from mowing lawns, to pay the transaction fees?  It's all the same bucket.

Poncke

« Reply #249 on: December 06, 2012, 12:49 »
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Quote
This is not spelled out, as it is understood as simply doing business online. 

Thats a load of rubbish

Yeah, I don't understand your fixation here.  The buyer buys an image, the amount covers the licensing and costs of transaction.  Do you think the seller is supposed to have two wallets?  One for incoming payments, and some other wallet that holds money he made from mowing lawns, to pay the transaction fees?  It's all the same bucket.

Where did I say that? You are making stuff up.


 

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