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Author Topic: Finding a partner  (Read 12419 times)

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« on: April 27, 2010, 12:39 »
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I have a full time job and a tens of thousands of photos sitting on my hard drives for years that I haven't gotten to.  Although I've been a contributor to the micros for 5 years now, the last couple of years I've barely uploaded due to time.

Instead of flat out hiring someone I thought of partnering up with someone I can trust.  I have a friend with photoshop skills and  I could give him batches of images to clean up, keyword and upload to Alamy.  I have a lot of travel shots and want to focus on Alamy right now instead of the micros with him. 

Instead of an hourly wage, his payment would be a percentage of the sales of the images that he works on.  He only gets paid if there is a sale.  What percentage of the sale (after Alamy takes their royalty) would you figure to be fair?  I have to make it worth while for him.


« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 13:04 »
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If I were you, I'd offer him 40% of the profit and pay him around 50 $ a month so that he doesn't feel that it all might be a waste of time should you see no sales. Regards, Lj

« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 13:10 »
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theres so many variables to this question, i don't even know where to begin ???

« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 13:13 »
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Just wondering how your friend will know if a sale has been made. Will your partner have permanent access to your account?

« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 13:21 »
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Yes, I would give him access to my account.  So, he can log in and keyword or submit accepted images, or whatever he needs to do.  He would basically manage my Alamy account and I would only give him images to work with. 

I was also thinking around 40% as well.  So my last sale on Alamy was for $450.  Minus the 40% royalty I'm down to $270.  So he would get 40% of that ($108) and I would net the rest.  The sale before that was for $48, so obviously its not always going to be a big sale. 

Otherwise I make zero, since I'm not going to have the time to do this myself and also contribute to the micros.

« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 14:56 »
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It's always better something than nothing... And, if you can get something with no significant effort it is ok... But, I am more for 1/3 of earnings to give to your partner...

« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 15:16 »
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If you have "tens of thousands of photos", I can't imagine you've spent much time shooting each, so they basically sound like travel snaps or something.  Is it worth the trouble to go through all this?

« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 15:20 »
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Well, I know for sure that I wouldn't want to be the partner. It's not very encouraging to know that I'd only make money when a sale occurs.

Not only that I needed a lot of trust (if not even access to the account myself) but also the time involved may be a very risky venture.

If I'd be a college kid with all my bills being paid maybe, but only then.

From your side as the photographer I wouldn't "outsource" anything. Sure you have a lot of images but Alamy doesn't require a lot of post processing to be accepted, unless your images require major retouching to get through QC.

If it's mostly just a matter of of color/exposure correcting and upsizing I'd try to upload 10 images a day, that's one hour a day, I think that's reasonable for someone who had the time to take "tens of thousands" of images before...

Dook

« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 15:36 »
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I would accept to be your partner if you planned to upload to microstock top tier agencies, but Alamy ???

« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 15:38 »
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The person I'm considering has a full time job, so this would be something to hone his Photoshop skills and make extra cash.  Wasn't sure of the best method to pay him, hence why I put it out there for input.  Want to make sure its worth his time of course without giving out the farm as well.  Perhaps a monthly stipend along with percentage of sales would work best.

Agreed that I could spend an a hour a day, but between my day job, trying to submit to micros and also doing stock video, its time that I'm finding hard to find.

Yes, It's worth going through the process, I've traveled extensively and have a back log of quality images.  I wouldn't waste my time or someone else with snap shots.  My last trip alone I shot close to 20,000 images.

Just trying to find a way to clear the backlog of images and focused on what I enjoy more which is shooting more images.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 15:51 »
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The person I'm considering has a full time job, so this would be something to hone his Photoshop skills and make extra cash.
Unless you have kept your slides in a hermetically sealed environment, the amount of work taken to clone out dust spots etc is absolutely soul destroying. It's really not a matter of honing Photoshop skills, it's just meticulous tedium.
I guess it depends how much he needs the money.

« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 16:07 »
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What do volume shooters do in this situation?  When the amount of images outstrip the amount of time necessary to process and upload?  Most I would imagine probably are full timers and may hire full time help to do this.  I know there are keywording services out there that will do that part, but what about just doing everything else besides making the images?

 

Dook

« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 16:16 »
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You approach is right. Yuri and the others have employees, but I don't think you make enough (at least from informations you gave to us) from stock to employee someone.

grp_photo

« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2010, 16:22 »
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A fair partnership is always 50:50 to me. That is also the reason I consider agencies that pay less than 50% as unfair.

« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2010, 16:26 »
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Right, I'm not on their level and hiring someone full time when I'm not even full time doesn't make sense to me.  Trust me, I'd rather have full control over all my images, but with a lot of people time is always the enemy.  Just trying to find a happy middle ground with some help, where I can clear my backlog and continue shooting.  With more and more images uploaded everyday to stock agencies and seeing a lot of mine images idle is sparking me to try a different approach to getting them uploaded. 

If 50/50 is what keeps someone motivated to upload then I'll do that.  Want to do what's right and fair.  Rather not go through the trouble of training and having someone stop because of a lack of return on their time.

« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2010, 16:30 »
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Yes, It's worth going through the process, I've traveled extensively and have a back log of quality images.  I wouldn't waste my time or someone else with snap shots.  My last trip alone I shot close to 20,000 images.

That doesn't make me think you really have saleable images.  20,000?  I mean, do you take your finger off the shutter button?  That's a ridiculous number.

lisafx

« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2010, 17:44 »
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Sounds like a great deal for you if you can find a "partner" to put in all the many, MANY hours of work cleaning up and submitting that number of images and only expect 40% of the extremely low sales volume you will get from Alamy.  The partner is assuming all the risk. 

I wouldn't touch the job for 100% of the royalties you are going to get from those pictures.  

I agree with Dook - it's not worth it unless you can upload them to the micros and they will be both accepted and marketable there.  


« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2010, 18:54 »
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I would not say that a 50/50 split is always fair. Too many factors involved .. are you going to attack this as a business? If so where is the split for the business? Are you a fix it later photographer or do you shoot it right in the first place and produce raw images that look fully edited? 20 seconds vs. 20 minutes per image edit is going to play a big part in what determines a fair split ratio. Who will be handling or paying for the sale tracking and bookkeeping? Who is in charge of archiving? Who is in charge of keywording? Who is in charge of QC? Who is covering travel expenses, gear expenses, office expenses? Some people will think a 50/50 split is fair when actually a 90/10 or a 75/25 split is actually the fairest ratio. Every single little process needs to be broken down into effort and expense to determine what percentage both parties can call fair.

« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2010, 19:44 »
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sjlocke ~ Was in Antarctica for the trip with 20k photos.  The scenery was fantastic, so I took more photos than a normal trip totals of 3 to 4k.

I'm focusing my travel and editorial shots with Alamy, since I believe they are a better spot for them (I could be wrong).  I'm not stopping with contributing to the micros, that is and has been my main outlet.  I will have to drill down into the details a bit more to figure out a proper percentage as Randy mentioned. 

Its sounding like most photographers do everything themselves as I have done.  Just looking for a better way to reduce the back log of images.

« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2010, 20:05 »
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sjlocke ~ Was in Antarctica for the trip with 20k photos.  The scenery was fantastic, so I took more photos than a normal trip totals of 3 to 4k.

Exactly.  Vacation snaps.  Well, good look getting help to process them, although it sounds like you could just run a batch on the set.

« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2010, 20:20 »
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The partner is assuming all the risk.
That's the heart of the matter. It's a paid job since there is no honor at all in it for the retoucher. It's the same as if somebody would start a business, and tell his employees the will be paid according profits in the course of the coming years. That won't fly. The OP should pay his retoucher upfront on an hourly or per picture base, and assume the risk himself. Lookstat offers services like that.

« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2010, 20:29 »
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I do have enough marketable images, vacation snaps aside.  Where having someone help me get them online is necessary if I want to increase my revenue.  Perhaps paying him an hourly wage would work too as apposed to a percentage.  I don't know its a bridge I'm crossing and looking for input.

« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2010, 21:54 »
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Exactly.  Vacation snaps. 
Just because they are photos taken in a vacation trip, do they deserve the "snap" classification?

« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2010, 22:52 »
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Exactly.  Vacation snaps.  
Just because they are photos taken in a vacation trip, do they deserve the "snap" classification?

+1.

I believe lookstat have a service that would suit, but dont know how much it costs (and is geared for micro, whereas I still believe there is more money in macro agencies for travel images).
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 23:15 by Phil »

« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2010, 00:15 »
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Exactly.  Vacation snaps. 
Just because they are photos taken in a vacation trip, do they deserve the "snap" classification?

Unless he went there to shoot specific things for the commercial marketplace, yes, they're just vacation shots, and income expectations should be adjusted accordingly.


 

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