Author Topic: Alamy and RF images?? (Read 11296 times)

vonkara · « **on:** November 15, 2008, 23:14 »

Simple question... Can we submit microstock images to Alamy as royalty free?

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2008, 23:33 »

You tell me:
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photography-search-results.asp?qt=shoosh&ns=1&lic=6&lic=1&archive=1&size=0xFF

stormchaser · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2008, 23:40 »

The last time I really looked, I found no specifically written rules against it. However, with those long time shooters that are very involved with Alamy, I can tell you it is highly "frowned upon".

I keep macro separate from micro, as I feel it is ethically unsound to have such a spread in price points for the same image. And most of my Alamy stuff goes in Rights Managed anyway except for some digital art. I think though that I am even going to swing the new art stuff over to RM though, as those that are RM get better stats than the ones I submitted long ago as RF.

vonkara · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2008, 23:44 »

Yeah I know but if found it weird that Alamy was not discussed a lot here. In my mind Alamy was a macro agency. And only RM. So it confused me to see RF there.

AVAVA · « **Reply #4 on:** November 16, 2008, 00:47 »

Hi All,

I see on their site that they allow RM and RF. I have found that most larger Macro agencies do not want you putting your Macro RF on the Micro RF sites and visa versa but I think this area is going to become grayer and grayer as time moves on. The licenses are the same in Macro RF and Micro RF so I don't know why they won't eventually merge. We have already seen a migration that direction with the Midstock companies trying to sell older Macro RF at lower prices. It hasn't worked very well yet so I think those agencies might move those images next to Micro to try and produce some last income out of them. Especially their older wholly owned material. This is just what has happened over the past ten years in RF everywhere else. I would expect it to follow in Micro.

I don't directly solicit through Alamy because their RPI is not very good at the moment but that doesn't mean you can't make an occasional nice sale of a few hundred dollars if you stay with their RM. If I was going to place images there I would be more drawn to RM if I already had a strog RF portfolio. Defersify.

Good Luck,
AVAVA

lagereek · « **Reply #5 on:** November 16, 2008, 01:59 »

Yes its frowned upon. However there are no rules just ethics but ofcourse many agencies forget their ethics towards photographers, so you know, its one of these personal things.

Phil · « **Reply #6 on:** November 16, 2008, 04:02 »

heavily frowned upon, some people do it and some dont (and a number of people get very upset).

but it is getting very cloudy...
the main argument is you shouldn't same image for $300-$400 that you sell for $2, but there is also the licence, at alamy it is an el licence, often around $100, so the comparision becomes less (and of course the purchaser may only use it the manner of a 'normal' micro sale). But some people can buy your image at alamy for $2 as well under novel use.

Then throw in the fact that if you list with all options at StockXpert, you get the photos.com etc where your image may sell at $250 and now canstock too where fotosearch will sell it at both macro and micro prices (I believe but haven't looked properly yet). so we have agencies now listing at both pricing models.

In the end it is up to you and what you believe

Phil

vonkara · « **Reply #7 on:** November 16, 2008, 18:06 »

At the end it's the buyers choice to get their images at the price they want. But then Alamy want to know where else I sell my images. Maybe they won't accept me because I am from microstock.

Anyways I don't know exactly how to make an isolated 3.5mb image going up to 46mb. I upsized the image but then it needed additional unsharp mask. Alamy merging with a micro agency would be easier for me

stormchaser · « **Reply #8 on:** November 16, 2008, 19:23 »

Quote from: Vonkara on November 16, 2008, 18:06

At the end it's the buyers choice to get their images at the price they want. But then Alamy want to know where else I sell my images. Maybe they won't accept me because I am from microstock.

Anyways I don't know exactly how to make an isolated 3.5mb image going up to 46mb. I upsized the image but then it needed additional unsharp mask. Alamy merging with a micro agency would be easier for me

My brother was in Shutterstock and DT before Alamy, and he did note it. No problems with his acceptance.

From AVAVA

"I have found that most larger Macro agencies do not want you putting your Macro RF on the Micro RF sites and visa versa but I think this area is going to become grayer and grayer as time moves on."

PhotoShelter was really the only one to come straight out and forbid it, and that was only after the crossover was brought to their attention by some of the haughty "pros" on there who got crazed and stomped their feet a lot on the forums there.

AVAVA · « **Reply #9 on:** November 16, 2008, 20:11 »

Hi Storm Chaser,

I can only speak for Getty, Corbis and Jupiter when I speak of the big Macro companies. Now just Getty and Corbis. They do not want this to take place. If it is their own collection their contract will not let you put up a Macro RF image on their site and then let you put it anywhere else, Micro, Macro or the Moon.
This has been standard practice until the birth of third party agencies that distribute to several hundred agencies including all three / two big agencies. Even the respectable third party agencies will not allow you to place the same image with them and anyone else. Every Macro RF image I have produced was sent to one original company for distribution and they are the ones that take it from there to further distribute. They are the ones that I sign an exclusive contract for that body of work with for 5-7 years as a standard. However I cannot send that same photo elsewhere myself with the exception of an image trade for the location and sometimes the talent. This is how the industry has been run from as far back as I have been part of it.

Good Typing with you,
AVAVA

tubed · « **Reply #10 on:** November 16, 2008, 20:33 »

Yes you can.. As far as rules go, but I think it is a good way to help kill a decent site as well as your photo industry.. It's a moral delema that you must decide, but remember your decisions will affect yours and others futures little by little..

AVAVA · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2008, 12:30 »

Hi All,

Unless you are putting your images into an RM Editorial collection you " CANNOT " place the same image in a Getty Macro RF collection and then go place it somewhere else. I know the two Macro RF agencies that I am part owner in have this in their clause. I am only referring to Getty, Jupiter and Corbis. I cannot speak for Alamy.

For an example here is what the contract at Getty says about it. Taken straight from the Getty contributor agreement.

Exclusivity: All Content submitted to Getty Images is on a Content exclusive basis. Once Content has been submitted to Getty
Images, such Content and any Similars may not be licensed to any third party unless Getty Images has notified you that
it has been rejected. In addition, you must submit exclusively to Getty Images any Content or Similars that you have
created (a) on assignment for or as a representative of Getty Images; (b) acting on information, direction or access
provided through Getty Images; or (c) where Getty Images is funding any of the costs incurred in connection with the
creating that content.

1.1 License Grant to Getty Images: You grant Getty Images a
worldwide, exclusive right to market and sublicense Reproduction
Rights in Accepted Content. Except for Content that you submit for
licensing through Rights-Managed Editorial or the Reportage
Collection (“Reportage”), you also grant Getty Images the additional
right to modify, adapt or create Derivative Works of all other Content, in
any medium and for any purpose.

Hope this helps,
AVAVA

sharpshot · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2008, 12:40 »

But alamy let people upload their microstock RF photos as RF on their site. I don't think it is a good policy. So far, I have kept my microstock photo away from alamy but if everyone else is doing it, perhaps I will too.

AVAVA · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2008, 13:09 »

Hi Sharpshoot,

I am only speaking of the big three Getty, Corbis and Jupiter. Now just the two. All my work at Alamy is there through third party agencies not direct from me with Alamy. I think I have around 8000 images at Alamy through other agencies.

If I were to go back through my old edits and pull a sister or similar image from a shoot that was shot for a specific RF agency and place that similar image with some other company, I would be breaking the rules of my contracts. That is just the nature of Macro RF so far, it doesn't mean it isn't going to change in the future.

One example of change is that until just recently RM collections could not be distributed by third party companies unless exclusive with one agency. There is now a way to track sales so some third party agencies are starting to offer RM content on more than one Macro site. If a sale goes through that wants certain control over the image that image is pulled from the other competitors that also represent the same image. It is pretty new but it was built around the fact that very few RM images are actually purchased with the need for such complete control and technology can now keep up with the tracking.

Best,
AVAVA

stormchaser · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2008, 13:24 »

Quote from: AVAVA on November 16, 2008, 20:11

Hi Storm Chaser,

I can only speak for Getty, Corbis and Jupiter when I speak of the big Macro companies. Now just Getty and Corbis. They do not want this to take place. If it is their own collection their contract will not let you put up a Macro RF image on their site and then let you put it anywhere else, Micro, Macro or the Moon.
This has been standard practice until the birth of third party agencies that distribute to several hundred agencies including all three / two big agencies. Even the respectable third party agencies will not allow you to place the same image with them and anyone else. Every Macro RF image I have produced was sent to one original company for distribution and they are the ones that take it from there to further distribute. They are the ones that I sign an exclusive contract for that body of work with for 5-7 years as a standard. However I cannot send that same photo elsewhere myself with the exception of an image trade for the location and sometimes the talent. This is how the industry has been run from as far back as I have been part of it.

Good Typing with you,
AVAVA

Left Getty and Corbis out of my comments as Alamy and Photoshelter (deceased) are more in the common denominator on this forum for those wishing to enter traditional, or higher paying macrostock.

I go back to Tony Stone and trannies, so know exactly what you're saying here.

My own opinion is that if you try to play both ends, meaning identicals both on micro and Alamy, you are slitting your own throat professionally. Eventually there will be problems like refunds to the buyer.

I really think Alamy should take a good look and rewrite their submission terms. Times have changed, and the boundaries have blurred. But in the race of "the one who dies with the most images wins", maybe they are attending to other things. If Alamy management has no awareness of the problem, then they are turning a blind eye. There certainly has been enough micro bashing over time on their forum. Usually the query of "can I submit my Shutterstock images here" will be blasted immediately by the regulars. But then the new submitter will then go somewhere else, read another "opinion" that say's it's ok, and just do it anyway.

I like micro. It's some fun for me. But they are treated as their own entity in my work.

AVAVA · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2008, 13:36 »

Hi SC,

Tony Stone and Trannies you do date yourself. Just so everyone understands he wasn't into cross dressers he is speaking of Transperancies or slide film

Alamy is a different beast and I wish them the best of luck. This entire industry has become very fluid and there is still a lot of change to come. Diversify people or face the wrath of change.

Best,
AVAVA

lagereek · « **Reply #16 on:** November 17, 2008, 13:50 »

Jonathan! now youre talking! Tony Stone and Associates, the first Stock-agency I joined back in 89, man he was an expert, a mentor and a fantastic business-man, he even gave Stan -Kanney of The-Image-Bank some great advice.
Later Tony became a personal friend.
He would have run todays Micro with an iron-fist and only flaunt the very best, and made great profits for everybody.

AVAVA · « **Reply #17 on:** November 17, 2008, 13:59 »

I couldn't agree with you more I rarely use this term but he was a visionary. If some of you out there are interested in the birth of stock you should really google the name Tony Stone. I can remember looking through those catalogs in complete awe of the imagery. Always a motivator. Times are a bit different now aren't they.

Best,
J

vonkara · « **Reply #18 on:** November 17, 2008, 15:24 »

Quote from: sharpshot on November 17, 2008, 12:40

But alamy let people upload their microstock RF photos as RF on their site. I don't think it is a good policy. So far, I have kept my microstock photo away from alamy but if everyone else is doing it, perhaps I will too.

I already saw a couple of microstock images by browsing the site. Though I'm still not sure to upload to Alamy yet. If I remember correctly, a couple of members here on MSG already upload to Alamy, but I don't think they upload the same images. Seren come to my mind

PeterChigmaroff · « **Reply #19 on:** November 17, 2008, 15:52 »

Quote from: AVAVA on November 17, 2008, 13:59

I can remember looking through those catalogs in complete awe of the imagery. Always a motivator. Times are a bit different now aren't they.

Best,
J

The times are a bit different now indeed.

sharpshot · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2008, 17:11 »

Quote from: Vonkara on November 17, 2008, 15:24

Quote from: sharpshot on November 17, 2008, 12:40
But alamy let people upload their microstock RF photos as RF on their site. I don't think it is a good policy. So far, I have kept my microstock photo away from alamy but if everyone else is doing it, perhaps I will too.
I already saw a couple of microstock images by browsing the site. Though I'm still not sure to upload to Alamy yet. If I remember correctly, a couple of members here on MSG already upload to Alamy, but I don't think they upload the same images. Seren come to my mind

I know for a fact that there are lots of people that upload the same images but just because they do, why should you? Try and weigh up the pros and cons and make your own decision. I have decided to keep my microstock images separate for now. The thought of having a nice sale refunded because the buyer found it much cheaper on the micros is enough to put me off.

vonkara · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2008, 17:30 »

I said I'm not sure yet. I was only giving infos that I tought could be useful. Sorry if it's annoyed you

Quote from: sharpshot on November 17, 2008, 17:11

The thought of having a nice sale refunded because the buyer found it much cheaper on the micros is enough to put me off.

You're right I didn't saw that this way before

stormchaser · « **Reply #22 on:** November 17, 2008, 18:12 »

Quote from: Zeus on November 17, 2008, 15:52

Quote from: AVAVA on November 17, 2008, 13:59
I can remember looking through those catalogs in complete awe of the imagery. Always a motivator. Times are a bit different now aren't they.

Best,
J

The times are a bit different now indeed.

Was cleaning out some old books and ran across an old ASMP annual from about 1985. Still stunning stuff. Couldn't bear to toss it. And all of the stuff achieved from film without Photoshop tricks.

sharpshot · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2008, 18:13 »

Quote from: Vonkara on November 17, 2008, 17:30

I said I'm not sure yet. I was only giving infos that I tought could be useful. Sorry if it's annoyed you

No, it hasn't annoyed me. That only happens on the alamy forum

lagereek · « **Reply #24 on:** November 18, 2008, 02:59 »

Look! its pretty hard if not even laughable driving a conversation about ethical-values from a contributors point of view, in view of recent events? IS "blow-out" of non exclusives??? ethical? yeah like hell. Other agencies tanking without even telling its members?
I mean whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

Picky bought from a Micro, well 99% it will be used as a webb shot. Picture bought for say 500 dollars RF, that shot will be used in some form of promotion, advertising and often as a printed matter. So, yes! the buyer should pay a lot more for that even if it can be found in the Micros files.

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Author Topic: Alamy and RF images?? (Read 11296 times)

vonkara

Sean Locke Photography

stormchaser

vonkara

AVAVA

lagereek

Phil

vonkara

stormchaser

AVAVA

tubed

AVAVA

sharpshot

AVAVA

stormchaser

AVAVA

lagereek

AVAVA

vonkara

PeterChigmaroff

sharpshot

vonkara

stormchaser

sharpshot

lagereek

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