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Author Topic: The Blame Game  (Read 24621 times)

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« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2010, 09:41 »
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Doesn't this thread remind anyone of the outrage that REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS displayed in the beginning of MICROSTOCK?

Not really, and I'm getting tired of hearing that over and over.


RT


« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2010, 09:56 »
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Doesn't this thread remind anyone of the outrage that REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS displayed in the beginning of MICROSTOCK?

By the way ... I am a late-comer to microstock.  But, I was a Professional Photographer long before most of you got your first camera.

No not all all, most of that outrage was over the microstock model because they didn't understand the business specifics. In short they could only see an image selling for a very small amount without understanding that an image is a product and the idea of selling a product is to get as much return for it as possible. Of course there were some of these real photographers who realised that the 'quality' of their work would be held to bear.

lisafx

« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2010, 10:10 »
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Is it just me, or has there been an awful lot of blame and accusation going around this forum recently? 

Yes and it's all your fault  :P

ROFL!  Glad to hear that mystery is solved ;D

« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2010, 10:36 »
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I think there is a bit too much focus on 'who is pro' and 'who is not' and where the line should be drawn.  I do agree that it is nice to know when someone posts about a 100% increase in earnings when they have a portfolio of 20 images, but to shun people who are 'not pro', however you define the term, or if we take the attitude that they don't have anything to ad - I think is narrow sighted.

For some reason there seems to be some sort of vibe that microstock shouldn't be for people who are new - that you need to be a seasoned pro before you can submit to the micros.  Perhaps this is part of the negativity seen?

I think that is forgetting what microstock IS and how it started.  Microstock is crowd sourced and can be contributed to by everyone.  If the images aren't good enough they won't get past the review process.  Micro is one the stock arena where everyone is allowed to play no matter how many images you have or how long you have been involved in the industry.  Being so tightly reviewed it allows everyone to at least try submitting.  Some people are happy making $50 a year - that should be fine.  For those who want an arena which is an exclusive club and only pro's can submit - they should apply to Getty or Corbis or one of the big macro agencies.  

I'm not for drumming up hype that microstock is any sort of unopened treasure chest, but to discourage someone simply on the basis that they are 'new' or don't have top notch images, I think is unfair.

edited for clarity - .. hopefully it is clearer.

Thanks.

« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2010, 11:10 »
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By the way ... I am a late-comer to microstock.  But, I was a Professional Photographer long before most of you got your first camera.

Off-topic. I do not think this tells anything. I also was a PP long-long time ago. Let me give you an analogy from my other life - software. I heard couple times from people: "I know how to read punch cards!". I do too, but how it can help now? :)

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2010, 11:24 »
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software. I heard couple times from people: "I know how to read punch cards!". I do too, but how it can help now? :)

don't worry, there's a chance a sort of "open source" photography is going to develop soon as
people will put online all the images they can't sell or get past QC.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2010, 11:26 »
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By the way ... I am a late-comer to microstock.  But, I was a Professional Photographer long before most of you got your first camera.

Off-topic. I do not think this tells anything. I also was a PP long-long time ago. Let me give you an analogy from my other life - software. I heard couple times from people: "I know how to read punch cards!". I do too, but how it can help now? :)

Is this somehow relating to photography?  Are you equating punch cards to film photography?  Kinda like, "Yeah, you're a dinasaur but still a newbie."

« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2010, 11:32 »
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Off-topic. I do not think this tells anything. I also was a PP long-long time ago. Let me give you an analogy from my other life - software. I heard couple times from people: "I know how to read punch cards!". I do too, but how it can help now? :)

Is this somehow relating to photography?  Are you equating punch cards to film photography?  Kinda like, "Yeah, you're a dinasaur but still a newbie."
[/quote]

Exactly, with one correction. Did you miss "I do too" part? ;)
A little more serious - not to film photography as a class (it does not apply to anybody who did professional work on film continuously till recent years), but to any professional skill set that had a chance to get both obsolete and rusty.   

WarrenPrice

« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2010, 11:40 »
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Off-topic. I do not think this tells anything. I also was a PP long-long time ago. Let me give you an analogy from my other life - software. I heard couple times from people: "I know how to read punch cards!". I do too, but how it can help now? :)

Is this somehow relating to photography?  Are you equating punch cards to film photography?  Kinda like, "Yeah, you're a dinasaur but still a newbie."

Exactly, with one correction. Did you miss "I do too" part? ;)
A little more serious - not to film photography as a class (it does not apply to anybody who did professional work on film continuously till recent years), but to any professional skill set that had a chance to get both obsolete and rusty.   
[/quote]

I guess that pretty much sums it up.  I have nothing to offer.  My images must stand on their own.   :'(

« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2010, 11:44 »
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Quote
REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS displayed in the beginning of MICROSTOCK

Now that's funny.

« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2010, 11:48 »
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I guess that pretty much sums it up.  I have nothing to offer.  My images must stand on their own.   :'(

Sorry if you feel offended. I did not mean this at all - my comment was not about your photography skills, but about using "I was a Professional Photographer long before most of you got your first camera"

WarrenPrice

« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2010, 12:08 »
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I guess that pretty much sums it up.  I have nothing to offer.  My images must stand on their own.   :'(

Sorry if you feel offended. I did not mean this at all - my comment was not about your photography skills, but about using "I was a Professional Photographer long before most of you got your first camera"

This has gotten way off topic, Gene.  I am offering a Why for the conflict suggested in Lisa's initial post.  Donding tried the same post in slightly different wording and was skewered for simply being too new to have an opinion.  Lisa offers practically the same opinion with rave reviews.  That is what I see as the basis for a lot of the tension. 

My point was ... being new to MicroStock is no reason to assume the person is ignorant to the world selling images ... micro or otherwise.  As a famous comedian once said, "I get no respect."   ::)

« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2010, 12:11 »
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Let me add to that question a little - If I'm learning alot and in a year or a few I become a pretty/very good photographer (or developer, I like some CGI stuff), and on top of that I know what sells; yet I upload very little (due to interests, other commitments, etc) - I'm still not a "pro"?

boy, this is hard terminology...


If you make a dollar by doing something, you're a professional.  I spent 12 years making a living as a  musician and believe me if you want to argue about what "pro" means, just round up a bunch of musicians.

lisafx

« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2010, 12:55 »
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This has gotten way off topic, Gene.  I am offering a Why for the conflict suggested in Lisa's initial post.  Donding tried the same post in slightly different wording and was skewered for simply being too new to have an opinion.  Lisa offers practically the same opinion with rave reviews.  That is what I see as the basis for a lot of the tension.  

My point was ... being new to MicroStock is no reason to assume the person is ignorant to the world selling images ... micro or otherwise.  As a famous comedian once said, "I get no respect."   ::)

Well, with respect, I didn't see Donna getting "skewered" and I don't see anything like "rave reviews" here.  

All I have seen in either thread is people genuinely offering their opinions on the level of civility (or lack) around here, and also theories as to why that is.

ETA:  I did not think my OP was redundant of Donna's, as she was expressing frustration about being personally bashed. Whereas I don't feel particularly attacked myself, but am more interested in the newbie vs. pro battle that seems totally counterproductive to me. 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 13:04 by lisafx »

« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2010, 12:58 »
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Once I've heard a good definition of a pro, and it was not related to $$.
Amateur _can_ do an excellent job
Pro does a good job _always_ (though it may be not excellent)

Unfortunately this definition works best for self-rating, not external one.

« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2010, 13:10 »
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I think there is a bit too much focus on 'who is pro' and 'who is not' and where the line should be drawn.  I do agree that it is nice to know when someone posts about a 100% increase in earnings when they have a portfolio of 20 images, but to shun people who are 'not pro', however you define the term, or if we take the attitude that they don't have anything to ad - I think is narrow sighted.
...

For me it's pretty easy to draw the line: if you earn a living through photography then you're a professional, if you don't then (at best) you're a semi-professional. Although I'm primarily interested in the opinions of my professional peers, I still value the opinion of the part-timers and newcomers, though not with the same weight. Each of these groups has a unique opinion to offer: pros tend to look at things differently than semi-pros/amateurs/hobbiests, and newcomers can sometimes provide a fresh perspective of the marketplace. By definition, I don't think anyone who is professional unjustly discards the opinions of people who don't do this for a living or have been at it for only a short time. Certainly not a successful one, anyway.

lagereek

« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2010, 13:13 »
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Getty Images already has the top 1000 RM shooters.

maybe one day iStock will follow with the best 1000 RF shooters ?


Would it surprise you to know that plenty of the Getty top RM shooters also shoot stock for RF agencies. Its no big deal anymore.

best.


macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2010, 13:18 »
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Getty Images already has the top 1000 RM shooters.

maybe one day iStock will follow with the best 1000 RF shooters ?


Would it surprise you to know that plenty of the Getty top RM shooters also shoot stock for RF agencies. Its no big deal anymore.

best.

i do the same.

good images on RM, the rest on RF.

lagereek

« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2010, 13:41 »
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Getty Images already has the top 1000 RM shooters.

maybe one day iStock will follow with the best 1000 RF shooters ?


Would it surprise you to know that plenty of the Getty top RM shooters also shoot stock for RF agencies. Its no big deal anymore.

best.

i do the same.

good images on RM, the rest on RF.


Actually I try to keep the same quality at both RM and RF. It doesnt seem to make much differance nowdays. Fact is an RF shot DLd say 30 times a month can easily match a couple of RM sales, sometimes much more.

best. Christian

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2010, 14:02 »
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This has gotten way off topic, Gene.  I am offering a Why for the conflict suggested in Lisa's initial post.  Donding tried the same post in slightly different wording and was skewered for simply being too new to have an opinion.  Lisa offers practically the same opinion with rave reviews.  That is what I see as the basis for a lot of the tension.  

My point was ... being new to MicroStock is no reason to assume the person is ignorant to the world selling images ... micro or otherwise.  As a famous comedian once said, "I get no respect."   ::)

Well, with respect, I didn't see Donna getting "skewered" and I don't see anything like "rave reviews" here.  

All I have seen in either thread is people genuinely offering their opinions on the level of civility (or lack) around here, and also theories as to why that is.

ETA:  I did not think my OP was redundant of Donna's, as she was expressing frustration about being personally bashed. Whereas I don't feel particularly attacked myself, but am more interested in the newbie vs. pro battle that seems totally counterproductive to me.  

Lisa...the bashing I was referring to wasn't directed at me when I made the original post and later on down the post I came back and clarified that and said what I was concerned about was that the forum was beginning to take the turn of alot of the stock forums. I wasn't refering to everyone on here. Here is what I said in the second post

"I just want to clarify things that I should have done when I originally posted and I apologize for that. The bashing that was going on, was not directed at me, but some others on the forum. As most of you have pointed out, this is the best forum to partake in and that is very true thanks to Leaf. He has done a great job. I have also been to the other forums and know what it is like there. They are not the friendliest places. That was the point I was trying to make. I just dont want this forum to turn out like those and that is my main concern. The majority of people on here are considerate. Like I said before Im not going to single out people and point fingers here. That is a lot of the problem that I was referring to. I didnt post to provoke people....even though it seems like that is what I  have done. I just felt these problems need to be addressed and I hope you understand that."  

I really think your post here was alot better put than mine. But I did end up with 9 ignores because of mine. But that's alright I'm not going to dwell on it.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 14:06 by donding »

lisafx

« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2010, 14:11 »
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But I did end up with 9 ignores because of mine. But that's alright I'm not going to dwell on it.

Don't sweat the ignores, Donna.  We all get them...  Only way to avoid it is to never have an opinion, and how dull would that be?  :)

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2010, 14:13 »
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But I did end up with 9 ignores because of mine. But that's alright I'm not going to dwell on it.

Don't sweat the ignores, Donna.  We all get them...  Only way to avoid it is to never have an opinion, and how dull would that be?  :)

If I was sweating them I'd be dehydrated by now....lol.. ::)

« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2010, 14:39 »
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I just checked my profile and found out I'm being ignored by 3.   I have no doubt they're "professionals".    :)

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2010, 15:01 »
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Actually I try to keep the same quality at both RM and RF. It doesnt seem to make much differance nowdays. Fact is an RF shot DLd say 30 times a month can easily match a couple of RM sales, sometimes much more.

best. Christian

i sell my best as RM because i price my work correctly.

if you see your images as something to be sold by its weight then by all means go with RF.

some of my shots are not cheap, and there's no reason on heart i would give them away
for 0.25$ a pop, and i don't care if they could theoretically sell 1000x times.

if you want that picture, it's at least 100 bucks, period.

the ones i sell as RF are there because nowadays some niches sell more
as RF, for instance food, fruit, vegetables, doors, road signs, symbols, etc

it's ok for me, my target is portraits and lifestyle, anything else comes later.

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2010, 15:02 »
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I just checked my profile and found out I'm being ignored by 3.   I have no doubt they're "professionals".    :)

i'm ignored by 12 !
they love me !  :D


 

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