My local dance club informed me that I was being replaced by another photographer that would shot their dance performances for FREE!

I use to charge $200 for a full two hour session plus process the images (Usually around 200 images). The guy that replaced me works as a software engineer for Microsoft and has a Nikon D800e- his photos were very bright and clear at ISO 400 where my Canon had to use ISO 800 or higher.  Thus the dance club got a better photographer and for FREE. Thus another potential income fades away from me. Looks like 2014 is going to be a rough one...

Quote from: Goofy on January 27, 2014, 22:44
My local dance club informed me that I was being replaced by another photographer that would shot their dance performances for FREE!

I use to charge $200 for a full two hour session plus process the images (Usually around 200 images). The guy that replaced me works as a software engineer for Microsoft and has a Nikon D800e- his photos were very bright and clear at ISO 400 where my Canon had to use ISO 800 or higher.  Thus the dance club got a better photographer and for FREE. Thus another potential income fades away from me. Looks like 2014 is going to be a rough one...

Sorry to hear that. I kinda know how you feel. If they can find someone to do it for nothing they will...the question is rather the guy will continue to do it for free after experiencing all the work that is involved.

Oh and just because he has a bigger and better camera does not mean he is a better photographer....

Actually he's doing it for a lot less than free since he had to buy a D800.

Does a dance club really want prints big enough that noise at ISO800 was an issue?

This guy may find out that getting nice shots of moving people - indoors, without supplemental lighting - isn't easy and may require more than just a hot new DSLR.

Most are for the web- I saw his images- actually nice! Some print outs (8 x10) as well done by him. He makes over 200K at microsoft thus money means nothing to him. This is just a hobby for him...

Quote from: Goofy on January 27, 2014, 22:57
Most are for the web- I saw his images- actually nice! Some print outs (8 x10) as well done by him. He makes over 200K at microsoft thus money means nothing to him. This is just a hobby for him...

well thats even a more kick to the grapenuts
the guy makes 200k a year , this means nothing to him, but he's willing to do it without thinking that this takes away a job from someone who needs it..

I don't know what to say to that...

Quote from: Goofy on January 27, 2014, 22:57
Most are for the web- I saw his images- actually nice! Some print outs (8 x10) as well done by him. He makes over 200K at microsoft thus money means nothing to him. This is just a hobby for him...

sorry but this is one very strange story, sure people do stuff for free but a guy doing 200k in another job? how many times a month is he going to shot for free?

When they call you to come back in a couple of months because he would rather be at the beach than working for free on weekends.....be sure and tell them that your rate has increased to $300.   

Quote from: Goofy on January 27, 2014, 22:57
Most are for the web- I saw his images- actually nice! Some print outs (8 x10) as well done by him. He makes over 200K at microsoft thus money means nothing to him. This is just a hobby for him...

Well of course if that's the case, you can't compete, and so be it.  The thing is, though - he'll get bored doing this and the club will eventually have to find someone else.   He may suddenly become unavailable just when they need him - because of a sudden business trip, kid going away to college etc. - and this job isn't really important to him.   Just let the club find out the hard way.

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2014, 23:51

Quote from: Goofy on January 27, 2014, 22:57
Most are for the web- I saw his images- actually nice! Some print outs (8 x10) as well done by him. He makes over 200K at microsoft thus money means nothing to him. This is just a hobby for him...

Well of course if that's the case, you can't compete, and so be it.  The thing is, though - he'll get bored doing this and the club will eventually have to find someone else.   He may suddenly become unavailable just when they need him - business trip, kid going to college etc. - because this job isn't really important to him.

true, when there's no money involved there's no obligation or responsibility owed

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2014, 22:53
Actually he's doing it for a lot less than free since he had to buy a D800.

He went out and bought it specially?

How much effort and time do you think someone working for free will provide in the long run? Probably not much. It won't be a priority and he has nothing to lose, so what keeps him from not showing up or just calling it in? The club will learn a lesson.

You can't really demand much from someone working for free.

Quote from: dingles on January 28, 2014, 00:45
How much effort and time do you think someone working for free will provide in the long run? Probably not much. It won't be a priority and he has nothing to lose, so what keeps him from not showing up or just calling it in? The club will learn a lesson.

You can't really demand much from someone working for free.

The real ,question is why did he do it for free? Is it really for free or is the "photography" free but any enlargements aren't? Unless its charity why on earth would someone really do it for free?

Quote from: Mantis on January 28, 2014, 01:18

Quote from: dingles on January 28, 2014, 00:45
How much effort and time do you think someone working for free will provide in the long run? Probably not much. It won't be a priority and he has nothing to lose, so what keeps him from not showing up or just calling it in? The club will learn a lesson.

You can't really demand much from someone working for free.

The real ,question is why did he do it for free? Is it really for free or is the "photography" free but any enlargements aren't? Unless its charity why on earth would someone really do it for free?

That's what I've been wondering. Is he related to the dance club owner, or something and helping them out?
Or is he going to take the pics and sell them via some equivalent of Photobox?
Or does he want to get out of Microsoft into photography and is trying to get experience/build a portfolio?

Quote from: ShadySue on January 28, 2014, 01:22


Or does he want to get out of Microsoft into photography and is trying to get experience/build a portfolio?

This guy must be the dumbest man on the planet if he leaves a 200K job with Microsoft to do photography

Quote from: noodle on January 28, 2014, 01:34

Quote from: ShadySue on January 28, 2014, 01:22


Or does he want to get out of Microsoft into photography and is trying to get experience/build a portfolio?

This guy must be the dumbest man on the planet if he leaves a 200K job with Microsoft to do photography

Maybe he's realised that money isn't what makes him happy. 

He is single guy (Playboy type) that comes from a rich family. My gut feeling is he is trying to lure some of the dancers to his pad. I drives a 911 GTS Twin Turbo Porsche and has a house on the ocean...

Quote from: Goofy on January 28, 2014, 01:41
He is single guy (Playboy type) that comes from a rich family. My gut feeling is he is trying to lure some of the dancers to his pad. I drives a 911 GTS Twin Turbo Porsche and has a house on the ocean...

You must really be fond of him now lol

I retract " the dumbest man on the planet" remark, and now think he is an evil genius

Yeah, The thought of cutting his valve stems on all four of his tires has crossed my mind but MSG folks never would do such a horrible thing 

Quote from: Mantis on January 28, 2014, 01:18The real ,question is why did he do it for free? Is it really for free or is the "photography" free but any enlargements aren't? Unless its charity why on earth would someone really do it for free?

I've done many projects for free and will probably do many more. Those projects are usually something that mean a great deal to my. In this case, the chance to score with some sexy dancers probably means a lot to him! 

This seems like one of the perils of having a profession that is indeed quite enjoyable.  So enjoyable that many people are willing to do it for free.  Like professional sports and other forms of art, it's hard to make a living from such professions. 

Time will tell how long the free worker will think it's fun when he has to do it over and over again.

Quote from: Goofy on January 27, 2014, 22:44
My local dance club informed me that I was being replaced by another photographer that would shot their dance performances for FREE!

I use to charge $200 for a full two hour session plus process the images (Usually around 200 images). The guy that replaced me works as a software engineer for Microsoft and has a Nikon D800e- his photos were very bright and clear at ISO 400 where my Canon had to use ISO 800 or higher.  Thus the dance club got a better photographer and for FREE. Thus another potential income fades away from me. Looks like 2014 is going to be a rough one...

Sue him for unfair concurrence...

As someone whose main income is not photography (I am a lawyer), I feel like I have to speak up. There is nothing morally wrong with what this guy is doing. Just because there are professional babysitters, am I being evil for taking care of my niece for free now and then?

And while this particular case may hurt our particular photographer, the majority here has already realized the one thing that makes most of these cases play out in favor of pros eventually: He's got another job. He may enjoy photography (certainly when there's hot dancers involved), but he isn't -- can't -- give it the same devotion that a pro can.

200 pictures for free doesn't sound like a good deal, 2 hours shooting, 200 minutes processing RAW to JPG, 200 minutes to edit/crop/etc, that is something like 9 hours (minimum) of hard work for FREE and don't you tell me that is a hobby, its not, I would call it slavery even if voluntary

a few bits missing in this story IMO

Quote from: luissantos84 on January 28, 2014, 13:44
200 pictures for free doesn't sound like a good deal, 2 hours shooting, 200 minutes processing RAW to JPG, 200 minutes to edit/crop/etc, that is something like 9 hours (minimum) of hard work for FREE and don't you tell me that is a hobby, its not, I would call it slavery even if voluntary

a few bits missing in this story IMO

We don't know that the free tog will spend any time processing, editing or cropping.

Quote from: ShadySue on January 28, 2014, 13:52

Quote from: luissantos84 on January 28, 2014, 13:44
200 pictures for free doesn't sound like a good deal, 2 hours shooting, 200 minutes processing RAW to JPG, 200 minutes to edit/crop/etc, that is something like 9 hours (minimum) of hard work for FREE and don't you tell me that is a hobby, its not, I would call it slavery even if voluntary

a few bits missing in this story IMO

We don't know that the free tog will spend any time processing, editing or cropping.

goofy said his pictures were very good, don't think they come that good straight from camera, mine don't, there is always the need to adjust a little exposure, wb, saturation, cropping, etc