Quote from: etienjones on May 02, 2011, 06:20

OK OK let's not get too excited

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake

Quote from: pseudonymous on May 02, 2011, 20:56

1.   We have a 40 minute firefight and a video of a room that doesn�t look like it was in a 40 minute firefight.
2.   We have a burnt down mansion and a room that doesn�t look like it was involved in a fire.
3.   We have a dead OBL but the body was disposed of immediately.
4.   We have apparent DNA evidence that was gathered and ivestigated by the people who are telling this story.
5.   We have Obama saying no American was injured or hurt in this fight, yet one of the US choppers was shot down and crashed into the mansion destroying further evidence.
6.   We have OBL supposedly hiding in a mansion located close to the Pakistan military base... is this going to be used as an excuse in the future to start a fight with Pakistan to get in there and take their Nuclear weapons?
7.   We have eight months of surveillance by the US government, yet there is no footage of OBL or anyone in that time.
8.   We have images of OBL on CNN claiming to be �new� photos of OBL yet he doesn�t look any older than he did 10 years ago.

pseudonymous...maybe you need to read earlier in this thread about the picture...maybe you need to check out your sources before you start throwing more propaganda out there.

Looking at the pictures I wouldn't exactly call that a mansion. It had 18 foot walls with barbed wire around them.

I know of people who have crashed in helicopters and were not killed or wounded.

I don't recall them saying the "so called mansion" burnt to the ground either. The fire could have been anywhere on the outside which was photographed, but I don't think that meant it burnt to the ground.

More information will come out in the following days and I'm not going to make judgement until all the facts come into play.

Urgh, what makes you think I'm talking of the photos that are on this thread?  As for the rest of your rant I'm going to ignore it!

Quote from: pseudonymous on May 02, 2011, 20:56

1.   We have a 40 minute firefight and a video of a room that doesn�t look like it was in a 40 minute firefight.
2.   We have a burnt down mansion and a room that doesn�t look like it was involved in a fire.
3.   We have a dead OBL but the body was disposed of immediately.
4.   We have apparent DNA evidence that was gathered and ivestigated by the people who are telling this story.
5.   We have Obama saying no American was injured or hurt in this fight, yet one of the US choppers was shot down and crashed into the mansion destroying further evidence.
6.   We have OBL supposedly hiding in a mansion located close to the Pakistan military base... is this going to be used as an excuse in the future to start a fight with Pakistan to get in there and take their Nuclear weapons?
7.   We have eight months of surveillance by the US government, yet there is no footage of OBL or anyone in that time.
8.   We have images of OBL on CNN claiming to be �new� photos of OBL yet he doesn�t look any older than he did 10 years ago.

1. Who said the entire 40 minute firefight was held in one room? And what does a room look like after a 40 minute firefight? Did you see the video of the room? It was trashed and there was blood all over the floor. Probably faked too though, right?
2. The compound was 1 acre. What makes you think the helicopter crashed directly into where they were fighting or that the mansion was burnt down?
3. Probably not the wisest choice, but supposedly there are photos.
4. Who would you expect to gather and test the evidence?
5. How do you know the copter crashed into the mansion?
6. No.
7. How do you know survelliance means *video* sureveillance? There are lots of ways to monitor people, not just by video. And it's unlikely they were even able to get video. I did not see any reports of them claiming they had video surveillance.
8. Haven't heard about any "new" photos of OBL. Is that CNN's goof or the governments?

1. LOL, so you�re saying that it�s possible the Navy Seals weren�t shooting at Osama for 40 minutes and they were shooting at nothing for most of that... unreal... that�s exactly what I�m saying!  Except I�m saying they were shooting at NOTHING for the entire 40 minutes. 

2. I would say the part of the house that contains the apparent blood of OBL has conveniently burnt down otherwise there still would be evidence there wouldn�t there? 

3. So if the people are screaming for evidence and they �supposedly� have photos, why not show them?

4. I expect your government to gather and test the evidence which makes the evidence useless.  That�s my point.  Who else is going to do it?

5. That�s what officials initially said on CNN...  that it was shot down from the ground by guards.  My point is I don�t know they �crashed�.  If anything it looks like it was done on purpose to get rid of any evidence that they DIDN�T kill OBL.  Now on this report we�re getting a different story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-killed-abbottabad-raid

�The Americans scoured the house for intelligence, took photos of the body, using facial recognition technology to compare it with pictures. It was him. Before withdrawing, the Seals blew up the wreckage of the helicopter. An orange fireball lit up the night sky over Abbottabad.�
Why would they do that unless they�re trying to destroy vital evidence?

6. NO?  Do you work for US intelligence and have inside information?  It was a rhetorical question, not really directed aimed at you.

7. Well any surveillance.  Photos... anything.  Where is the evidence?  Eight months is a long time, surely they have something!

8. I don�t know, perhaps we can ask the government.


The other interesting thing that was mentioned in the link above is this:

�The neighbours knew the owners of the house � the courier and his brother, described as ethnic Pashtuns � as secretive types. They dispatched children to buy food at local shops, and although they regularly prayed at a local mosque, they didn't engage in small talk.�

So if OBL is reqularly traveling to and from the local mosque, doesn�t the government have footage or photos of this? 

The more that comes out the more it looks odd!

If you were at the twin towers on 9/11 I think you would have a different view of the world.

LOL jesus!

You mean I would be brainwashed into thinking that Osama was killed on May 1st.  Despite there being any evidence of this actually happening?  You mean I would believe he was killed because I would want to believe he was really dead?  For some closure?  Because I would be emotionally driven to thinking he was killed rather than thinking logically that none of this story gels?

Thank you for precisely agreeing with my point about Obama and the US governement adminerstering emotionally-driven propaganda to make people believe whatever they want them to believe, despite them quickly disposing of any evidence that it did or did not really happen.

�The neighbours knew the owners of the house � the courier and his brother, described as ethnic Pashtuns � as secretive types. They dispatched children to buy food at local shops, and although they regularly prayed at a local mosque, they didn't engage in small talk.�

So if OBL is reqularly traveling to and from the local mosque, doesn�t the government have footage or photos of this? 

That proves what exactly? That maybe they saw *some* people who came and went from the house? No one knows if OBL ever left that house or not. They thought the courier owned the house, but where is a courier going to get the money to build a million dollar compound.

You accuse other people of blindly following the government, but you take every little thing and supply a sinister angle to it. I actually think it's laughable that you, and only you, seem to now the truth. LOLOLOL

The post was aimed at pseudonymous, who has posted page after page of drivel, and lagereek, who was in the quote above. These are some of the posts from pseudonymous below:


.....

The story that eventually comes out will be designed to fit whatever fantasy is considered most appropriate by the Pentagon/White House, without regard for whether or not it's true.

[/i]the distain for anything american has come through loud and clear on these posts.

That one wasn't from pseudonymous, it was from me and it had nothing to do with disdain for the US. If I had been in charge of this I couldn't think of a better outcome than to have him dead and tied to an anchor at the bottom of the sea. That is what I would want to happen and after I made it happen I would say he died fighting whether he had or not. The jihadis could hardly say "no, he was a coward who surrendered, you murdered him", could they?
Can you imagine how beneficial it would be to have bin Laden spend 20 years in US jails going through trials and appeals until, one day, he gets executed? All the lovely hostage takings and demands for his release? The suicide bombings to coincide with each step of the legal process? The outraged imams at Friday prayers all over the more backward parts of Asia? The pro-Osama demonstrations?
So you can say my cynicism is a result of how nasty I am. That if I ordered it I would tell them to kill the b*st*rd and get rid of the body. And if you want to tell me that US leaders/soldiers are just too nice to think of such a thing and all he had to do was say "I surrender" to be safe in American care for the next 30 years, well, you can think that if you like. You can even tell me that the Pentagon, like G. Washington, can never tell a lie (wasn't he a politician?) but I'm afraid I think that would be a false assessment.
Personally, beyond the broad outline that he was tracked down, attacked, killed during the operation and then dumped in the sea, I don't think any details will be reliable and I don't think they actually matter.
I also think it is completely silly to think Obama would announce he was dead unless he was.

Quote from: lagereek on May 02, 2011, 11:59

I think youre president Bush was better then this clown Obama?  he seams a complete joke to us here in Europe. We wouldnt even consider him as a porter to open the front-doors to parliament, here in Europe.

Sounds like your over 55 and white

Please! The vicious racism and ageism of it! I'm over 55 and white (and European) and I think Lagereek is talking tosh. You need to get away from making up negative stereotypes of people, it does no good in the long run, you know.

I think it's a good thing that the leader of Al Qaeda has been put out of play, but I also have a weird feeling about people celebrating the death of another human being. I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, cause there might have been a good reason to kill Osama, but seeing news reporters with a smile on their face and Americans celebrating in the streets just seems kind of macabre to me, as a public lynching from the 18th century

There has been a lot of talk why it took 10 years to capture bin Laden.  First fact, the Taliban offered to turn Bin Laden over to an Islamic Court in Saudi Arabia  two weeks after 9/11 for trial but  this was refused by the Bush administration.  Bin Laden would have surely been convicted as a criminal and thus diffuse the terrible history of the last 10 years..

Like all comic books, the hero can only be defined by how bad the villain is . . .  the Bush administration needed a �face of fear� to pursue its real goal which was to privatize the Iraqi oil fields thus bringing great profits to Bush and Cheney's supporters.  Bush never wanted to capture bin Laden, he himself said �I don't know where he is and don't give him much thought�.  On the other hand it was Obama's policy from the beginning of his Administration to capture bin Laden so making it more politically possible to leave Afghanistan. It took him two years to accomplish his election promise. Good on him, so now lets get . out . . . . . .

With the world's perhaps largest lithium reserves found in Afghanistan, I doubt US troops will leave.

Half the planet�s supply of lithium is in Bolivia.  Read the Book �Confessions of an Economic Hit Man� by John Perkins to realize that the leaders of that country better lock their doors at night.

Quote from: ThomasAmby on May 03, 2011, 02:53

I think it's a good thing that the leader of Al Qaeda has been put out of play, but I also have a weird feeling about people celebrating the death of another human being. I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, cause there might have been a good reason to kill Osama, but seeing news reporters with a smile on their face and Americans celebrating in the streets just seems kind of macabre to me, as a public lynching from the 18th century

   I stood out side the WTC on sept 11th and watched the towers fall with 3000 people in them. People actually jumped from the upper floors to death rather than be burned alive. There is no moral equivalence here, just the fact that bin laden was a murderer on a huge scale, and had it coming. If you are lucky enough to be far removed from this event, that's good for you. But don't judge those who were not so lucky.

I'm not judging those of you who happened to be first hand witnesses on sept. 11th. Very sorry you had to see it, and just to set the record straight, I think what happened there was horrible beyond belief; NOT trying to undermine that.

That being said I've always been against death sentence in any form. I was raised to believe that, by my parents and by my country, and it's something I would want to pass on to my own children.. And I don't think a death is something to cheer about, whether it's the death of a hero or a villain, and these are my personal beliefs... But that's another discussion

With the world's perhaps largest lithium reserves found in Afghanistan, I doubt US troops will leave.

Hi madelaide,

I seriously doubt that the US would stay there for the lithium.  There�s a real misconception about the value of this commodity.  It�s pretty cheap to buy... I think it's than $10,000 a tonne.  Although lithium is being used in lithium batteries, only about 2% of the ingredients that goes into the battery is actually lithium.  Also lithium is recyclable so in 20 years or so there�ll be no real need to mine the stuff at all.  Mining will decline and we'll see more lithium recycling plants start up.

There are also lithium deposits throughout the world so I don�t think the US will go through the trouble of setting up a mining site in Afghanistan, in the middle of a war torn country, for less than $10,000 a tonne when prices will surely go down in the future... due to supply going up because of recycling.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://froyonation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-watching.jpg&imgrefurl=http://froyonation.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/picture-of-obama-and-his-team-watching-operation-kill-bin-laden/&usg=__K2yCbT-DH3WPuKli3_8AZJq6Buc=&h=681&w=1024&sz=103&hl=en&start=38&zoom=1&tbnid=PJEetFrKagoT5M:&tbnh=132&tbnw=196&ei=NgvATZq_BvPp0QGe55WkBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dobama%2Bwatching%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1515%26bih%3D938%26site%3Dsearch%26tbm%3Disch0%2C672&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=542&vpy=582&dur=2381&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=191&ty=109&page=2&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:38&biw=1515&bih=938

pseudonymous: so what are they really looking at?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://froyonation.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/obama-watching.jpg&imgrefurl=http://froyonation.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/picture-of-obama-and-his-team-watching-operation-kill-bin-laden/&usg=__K2yCbT-DH3WPuKli3_8AZJq6Buc=&h=681&w=1024&sz=103&hl=en&start=38&zoom=1&tbnid=PJEetFrKagoT5M:&tbnh=132&tbnw=196&ei=NgvATZq_BvPp0QGe55WkBQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dobama%2Bwatching%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1515%26bih%3D938%26site%3Dsearch%26tbm%3Disch0%2C672&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=542&vpy=582&dur=2381&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=191&ty=109&page=2&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:17,s:38&biw=1515&bih=938

pseudonymous: so what are they really looking at?

Someone probably told them to look scared and intense for the charade. I don't think psuedo is going to believe anything short of witnessing it himself. Photos - doctored, video - edited, eye-witness reports - liars.