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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Minsc on May 10, 2022, 16:27

Title: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 10, 2022, 16:27
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on May 10, 2022, 17:37
Funny... history tell us that after a Pandemic, recession and great wars (wwi and wwii) arrive. Calling it "Biden recession" when all the world is in recession? and near to wwiii after Russia start a war in Europe? I wonder what terms you will use when peace and good economy arise again. Dreamstime? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Myphotobase on May 10, 2022, 18:32
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 10, 2022, 18:50
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Inflation levels and oil prices were incredibly high before the war in Ukraine started. China only started the lockdown.

The US economy shrank by 1.4% in Q1 and it wasn't caused by China locking down. China's GDP went up by over 4% in the same time period.

The main cause of the situation is because of energy scarcity and uncontrolled spending. Both of which are caused by policies of the current administration. The war in Ukraine doesn't help, it's certainly not the main cause of it.

The highest inflation in 40 years is caused by the federal reserve printing money it doesn't have. Failure to hold the people in charge responsible is reason why we're in this situation. So let's not make excuses for incompetent people.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 10, 2022, 19:21
Funny... history tell us that after a Pandemic, recession and great wars (wwi and wwii) arrive. Calling it "Biden recession" when all the world is in recession? and near to wwiii after Russia start a war in Europe? I wonder what terms you will use when peace and good economy arise again. Dreamstime? ;D ;D ;D

Last I recalled, we had a nice recovery from the Pandemic. And the last few wars that the US were directly involved in that costed over a trillion didn't plunge the country into a recession. And let's not exaggerate a regional war into a world war... it's not a world war.

Europe may very well head into a recession that is independent of the US recession. When you don't have a steady flow of petro and natural gas, it's bound to affect the European economies. And if Putin shuts off the natural gas this autumn, Europeans will be back to burning wood & coal.

The US on the other hand created it's own situation through reckless spending and uncontrolled inflation. Great economists warned that this was going to happen in 2021, but people didn't listen. When inflation is sky high and energy prices are sky high, people like you and I will tighten our spending. It's natural. When people stop spending, consumer confidence drops, economic activity drops, companies make less money and they have layoffs. That's how recessions start.

Of course, it's popular to blame Putin, but ask yourself this. Who caused the highest inflation in 40 years? Who caused oil prices to spike in the US before the Ukrainian war? That's your answer right there.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: k_t_g on May 10, 2022, 23:07
Its not just one idiot running some country and not just two, its all of those elites running any country and parasitically enjoying our "we the people" money. They are all the same. Sadly. They take after animals. Alphas always get the best and we get whats left. Would be nice if people would just "grow up" But I think people won't. Those that have the money will fight to keep it that way. Too much of a good thing I guess.
Remember we are their puppets and pawns.  ::)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Myphotobase on May 11, 2022, 01:50
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Inflation levels and oil prices were incredibly high before the war in Ukraine started. China only started the lockdown.

The US economy shrank by 1.4% in Q1 and it wasn't caused by China locking down. China's GDP went up by over 4% in the same time period.

The main cause of the situation is because of energy scarcity and uncontrolled spending. Both of which are caused by policies of the current administration. The war in Ukraine doesn't help, it's certainly not the main cause of it.

The highest inflation in 40 years is caused by the federal reserve printing money it doesn't have. Failure to hold the people in charge responsible is reason why we're in this situation. So let's not make excuses for incompetent people.

So, if you were the government.. what would you do ?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Myphotobase on May 11, 2022, 02:03

Of course, it's popular to blame Putin, but ask yourself this. Who caused the highest inflation in 40 years? Who caused oil prices to spike in the US before the Ukrainian war? That's your answer right there.

You seem to forget the last two years of Covid... Also don't forget that the federal reserve is independent from the government, so you have to blame one.. or the other.

And if you blame the federal reserve... President Trump was the one who hired their director (Jerome Powell) in 2017.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on May 11, 2022, 02:35
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Inflation levels and oil prices were incredibly high before the war in Ukraine started. China only started the lockdown.

The US economy shrank by 1.4% in Q1 and it wasn't caused by China locking down. China's GDP went up by over 4% in the same time period.

The main cause of the situation is because of energy scarcity and uncontrolled spending. Both of which are caused by policies of the current administration. The war in Ukraine doesn't help, it's certainly not the main cause of it.

The highest inflation in 40 years is caused by the federal reserve printing money it doesn't have. Failure to hold the people in charge responsible is reason why we're in this situation. So let's not make excuses for incompetent people.

You seem to be confusing the US with the whole world. Because - surprise surprise - almost all countries are facing the same problems.
Germany, where I live for example - Inflation is crazy, the highest since 1981. Is that Binden's fault too?
Or could all countries facing the same problems right now not rather be caused by something all these conutries share? Which is not Binden, but a worldwide pandemic and an ongoing war.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on May 11, 2022, 02:46
In Turkey, the inflation rate is currently over 70%! I assume that Biden is not responsible for this, right?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: eyewave on May 11, 2022, 06:53
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

It's funny how conservatives worldwide always claim recession and inflation are the fault of the current government and never based on the mistakes of the former one.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: ouatedeP on May 11, 2022, 07:18
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

totally misleading everyone knows this is the Ardern recession....  or is it the Trudeau recession...  was told clearly it was the Macron recession
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on May 11, 2022, 07:46
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

It's funny how conservatives worldwide always claim recession and inflation are the fault of the current government and never based on the mistakes of the former one.

Right. The money printing machine was running at max capacity when Trump was in power when the US broke its Debt to GDP record, previously established just after WWII.

Far from me to say that Biden is innocent, but Trump even insisted to put his signature on those checks printed out of thin air.
Let's also remember his threats towards the Fed, forcing them to lower interest rates, because his own personal debt was piling up.

Now we are obviously paying the price for Trump's "generosity", but Fox News fans seem to forget that.  ;)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 11, 2022, 10:50
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Inflation levels and oil prices were incredibly high before the war in Ukraine started. China only started the lockdown.

The US economy shrank by 1.4% in Q1 and it wasn't caused by China locking down. China's GDP went up by over 4% in the same time period.

The main cause of the situation is because of energy scarcity and uncontrolled spending. Both of which are caused by policies of the current administration. The war in Ukraine doesn't help, it's certainly not the main cause of it.

The highest inflation in 40 years is caused by the federal reserve printing money it doesn't have. Failure to hold the people in charge responsible is reason why we're in this situation. So let's not make excuses for incompetent people.

So, if you were the government.. what would you do ?

Stop spending so much money. Stop trying to stop domestic energy production.

Oil prices and Natural Gas spiked after we slowed down our own product of energy. This caused food prices to spike, along with everything else. It's self-inflicted inflation.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 11, 2022, 10:54
In Turkey, the inflation rate is currently over 70%! I assume that Biden is not responsible for this, right?

Regional inflation is common and it has little to nothing to do with the US.

Just like hyperinflation of 79.6 billion percent in Zimbabwe in 2007 has nothing to do with the US. Just like how inflation in Venezuela has little to nothing to do with the US.

Biden is completely responsible for US inflation due to his policies.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 11, 2022, 11:13
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Inflation levels and oil prices were incredibly high before the war in Ukraine started. China only started the lockdown.

The US economy shrank by 1.4% in Q1 and it wasn't caused by China locking down. China's GDP went up by over 4% in the same time period.

The main cause of the situation is because of energy scarcity and uncontrolled spending. Both of which are caused by policies of the current administration. The war in Ukraine doesn't help, it's certainly not the main cause of it.

The highest inflation in 40 years is caused by the federal reserve printing money it doesn't have. Failure to hold the people in charge responsible is reason why we're in this situation. So let's not make excuses for incompetent people.

You seem to be confusing the US with the whole world. Because - surprise surprise - almost all countries are facing the same problems.
Germany, where I live for example - Inflation is crazy, the highest since 1981. Is that Binden's fault too?
Or could all countries facing the same problems right now not rather be caused by something all these conutries share? Which is not Binden, but a worldwide pandemic and an ongoing war.

The inflation in Germany is different than that of the US. And yes, Germany's recent inflation is directly related to the war in Ukraine and its geopolitical tensions with Russia. Germany's inflation started creeping up late last winter after Russian slowed the flow of natural gas. It spiked right after Russia invaded Ukraine, causing food prices to spike. Ukraine was a huge exporter of food to the rest of Europe and after the war started, food exports dropped and supplies became constrained, causing food prices to rise.

If you look at June of 2021, in the midst of the pandemic, Germany's inflation rate was 2.3%. The pandemic is just another buzzword people throw around to make excuses for politicians.

You can see the inflation chart here that corresponds to my timeline assessment.
https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/inflation-cpi (https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/inflation-cpi)

The inflation in the US is different. In February 2021, the inflation rate was 1.7%, so stop parroting the media and blaming the pandemic. The inflation spike started in April of 2021 and continued to climb throughout the summer.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/273418/unadjusted-monthly-inflation-rate-in-the-us/)

Look at the rise in oil prices. It started in Q1 2021, which is when inflation started to spike in the US. The 2 chart pretty much mirrors each other.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/671580/quarterly-retail-price-of-gasoline-in-the-united-states/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/671580/quarterly-retail-price-of-gasoline-in-the-united-states/)

The inflation problem in the US is directly caused by the Biden administration.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 11, 2022, 11:23
Just to further prove my point, here is the inflation chart of France. It's nearly identical to the German inflation chart.

https://tradingeconomics.com/france/inflation-cpi

The inflation spike started right after the Ukrainian invasion in February 2022.

The inflation rate in France was 2.9% in January 2022. In the US, it was 7.5%. The US inflation spike started in April 2021, while the France inflation spike started in February 2022.

In other words, they were fairly independent of each other. The US inflation was caused by US policies, while France inflation was caused by the war in Ukraine.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: PigsInSpace on May 11, 2022, 11:42
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Inflation levels and oil prices were incredibly high before the war in Ukraine started. China only started the lockdown.

The US economy shrank by 1.4% in Q1 and it wasn't caused by China locking down. China's GDP went up by over 4% in the same time period.

The main cause of the situation is because of energy scarcity and uncontrolled spending. Both of which are caused by policies of the current administration. The war in Ukraine doesn't help, it's certainly not the main cause of it.

The highest inflation in 40 years is caused by the federal reserve printing money it doesn't have. Failure to hold the people in charge responsible is reason why we're in this situation. So let's not make excuses for incompetent people.

So, if you were the government.. what would you do ?

Stop spending so much money. Stop trying to stop domestic energy production.

Oil prices and Natural Gas spiked after we slowed down our own product of energy. This caused food prices to spike, along with everything else. It's self-inflicted inflation.

Unfortunately there is literally no elected politician in either party with any interest in cutting any spending. The Republicans made that clear before the pandemic when they cut taxes but didn’t cut spending at all. It’s just silly that some are now arguing to cut spending. If they meant it, they would have done it when they had control.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: BK on May 11, 2022, 13:44
I love how conservatives complain about the evils of socialism and how free market capitalism solves all problems . Then when the law of supply and demand kicks in and the price of gas goes up 50 cents a gallon they complain that the government isn’t doing enough. 😂
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Myphotobase on May 11, 2022, 20:01
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Inflation levels and oil prices were incredibly high before the war in Ukraine started. China only started the lockdown.

The US economy shrank by 1.4% in Q1 and it wasn't caused by China locking down. China's GDP went up by over 4% in the same time period.

The main cause of the situation is because of energy scarcity and uncontrolled spending. Both of which are caused by policies of the current administration. The war in Ukraine doesn't help, it's certainly not the main cause of it.

The highest inflation in 40 years is caused by the federal reserve printing money it doesn't have. Failure to hold the people in charge responsible is reason why we're in this situation. So let's not make excuses for incompetent people.

So, if you were the government.. what would you do ?

Stop spending so much money. Stop trying to stop domestic energy production.

Oil prices and Natural Gas spiked after we slowed down our own product of energy. This caused food prices to spike, along with everything else. It's self-inflicted inflation.

American Energy production was slowed down because it was not profitable anymore. Russia and the Saudis were in conflict and the oil prices went down. After the conflict, prices were rising slowly, and the american (and Canadian) producers were reluctant to risk losing money. Energy production depend on company profits, not on governments...
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: goseeit on May 12, 2022, 07:27
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

I assume you never cashed those stimulus checks that the corrupt Trump administration sent out to buy us off because you're all about the capitalism and not the socialism right clown.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 12, 2022, 08:56
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

I assume you never cashed those stimulus checks that the corrupt Trump administration sent out to buy us off because you're all about the capitalism and not the socialism right clown.

Biden is too brain dead be corrupt. He could barely find his way down a hallway, let alone trying to be corrupt. That’s why he’s running the US to the ground. And I didn’t qualify for single penny of stimulus money.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on May 12, 2022, 08:58
Biden is too brain dead be corrupt. He could barely find his way down a hallway, let alone trying to be corrupt. That’s why he’s running the US to the ground. And I didn’t qualify for single penny of stimulus money.

"Man woman person camera tv"
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 12, 2022, 09:32
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

Inflation levels and oil prices were incredibly high before the war in Ukraine started. China only started the lockdown.

The US economy shrank by 1.4% in Q1 and it wasn't caused by China locking down. China's GDP went up by over 4% in the same time period.

The main cause of the situation is because of energy scarcity and uncontrolled spending. Both of which are caused by policies of the current administration. The war in Ukraine doesn't help, it's certainly not the main cause of it.

The highest inflation in 40 years is caused by the federal reserve printing money it doesn't have. Failure to hold the people in charge responsible is reason why we're in this situation. So let's not make excuses for incompetent people.

So, if you were the government.. what would you do ?

Stop spending so much money. Stop trying to stop domestic energy production.

Oil prices and Natural Gas spiked after we slowed down our own product of energy. This caused food prices to spike, along with everything else. It's self-inflicted inflation.

American Energy production was slowed down because it was not profitable anymore. Russia and the Saudis were in conflict and the oil prices went down. After the conflict, prices were rising slowly, and the american (and Canadian) producers were reluctant to risk losing money. Energy production depend on company profits, not on governments...

There were plenty profits to go around. That's why oil companies have been posting record profits for the last year and the most valuable company right now is an Oil company. I guess it's easier to making a blanket statement about profits without giving anyone a chance to make a profit.

Biden effectively stopped energy production in the US with his policies. He shut down the Keystone Pipeline and cancelled all oil and natural exploration permits. Meanwhile, we're STILL secretly buying oil from Putin, while sending billions to Ukraine. If we are really against Putin, why are we buying oil from Russia? Could it be that we kneecapped ourselves and we have nowhere else to turn?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 12, 2022, 09:35
Biden is too brain dead be corrupt. He could barely find his way down a hallway, let alone trying to be corrupt. That’s why he’s running the US to the ground. And I didn’t qualify for single penny of stimulus money.

"Man woman person camera tv"

For every Trump gaff, there are dozens of Biden gaffs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6uingtAWbk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6uingtAWbk)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on May 12, 2022, 09:37
Elections are close. As we can see, the GQP mouthpieces were released in the wild with their updated speaking points.
I'm happy to see progress!

We are now talking about the economy, instead of stolen elections, the great reset, pedophile rings or Jewish lasers... 👍
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on May 12, 2022, 09:39

For every Biden gaff, there are dozens of Trump gaffs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MyLwAokINc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MyLwAokINc)

Fixed that.  And what's even worse is the crap that comes out of Trunt's mouth that aren't due to speech issues and are just plain idiocy.

Actually, what's even worse is that Republicans will have had four years to find a sensible candidate who wasn't impeached twice and caused and insurrection and lied about the election.  But they're just like "No, this guy is good because he hates who I hate and has no filter like I wish I didn't".
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 12, 2022, 09:45
I love how conservatives complain about the evils of socialism and how free market capitalism solves all problems . Then when the law of supply and demand kicks in and the price of gas goes up 50 cents a gallon they complain that the government isn’t doing enough. 😂

I'm more of a classical liberal more than anything else, thank you very much. I even support abortion.

When it comes so fiscial policy, modern leftists are completely illiterate when it comes to the economy.

You talk about supply and demand, so ask yourself this. Who stopped the Keystone pipepline and cancelled oil and natural gas exploration permits? Who artificially and intentionally constrained supply and caused the price of oil to go up?

And hyperbole doesn't make a good argument. The price of oil has nearly doubled since early last year, not gone up 50 cents. The price of food also nearly doubled. Maybe you're rich enough to not have it affect your bank account, but it's affecting everyone else and it's causing the US to barrel toward a recession. Sometime you need to step back and look it how it's affecting your bank account, microstock profits, your job and your children's jobs instead of looking for a little ideological win.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 12, 2022, 09:54

For every Biden gaff, there are dozens of Trump gaffs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MyLwAokINc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MyLwAokINc)

Fixed that.  And what's even worse is the crap that comes out of Trunt's mouth that aren't due to speech issues and are just plain idiocy.

Actually, what's even worse is that Republicans will have had four years to find a sensible candidate who wasn't impeached twice and caused and insurrection and lied about the election.  But they're just like "No, this guy is good because he hates who I hate and has no filter like I wish I didn't".

Have you heard about the new drug overdoes record in 2021? Only 107,000 people died from OD's, much of it attributed to Fentanyl.

After Biden opened the borders, Fentanyl "imports" from the southern border went up by 1,100%. But nobody cares, because Biden is "compassionately" letting druggies shoot themselves to death.

That's not a gaff, that's pure Biden idiocy. That's one top of what his incompetence on the economy. But let's about Trump's mean tweets instead.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on May 12, 2022, 09:54
I love how conservatives complain about the evils of socialism and how free market capitalism solves all problems . Then when the law of supply and demand kicks in and the price of gas goes up 50 cents a gallon they complain that the government isn’t doing enough. 😂


(https://i.ibb.co/Fn5XwMn/gs.jpg)

Well, if you look the green part as the market price, blue as the gas station profit and the red part is what governments are taking from the cake I wouldn't call this free market by any means  ;)

Would you ?

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on May 12, 2022, 10:32
I love how conservatives complain about the evils of socialism and how free market capitalism solves all problems . Then when the law of supply and demand kicks in and the price of gas goes up 50 cents a gallon they complain that the government isn’t doing enough. 😂


(https://i.ibb.co/Fn5XwMn/gs.jpg)

Well, if you look the green part as the market price, blue as the gas station profit and the red part is what governments are taking from the cake I wouldn't call this free market by any means  ;)

Would you ?

That pie chart is most likely valid for Europe. In the US, gas taxes are much lower.

For example, in Pennsylvania, the state with the highest gas tax in the US ($0,76/gallon) the tax percentage is only 16% of today's price ($4.57/gallon).
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on May 12, 2022, 10:34

Well, if you look the green part as the market price, blue as the gas station profit and the red part is what governments are taking from the cake I wouldn't call this free market by any means  ;)

Would you ?
Needs to be even higher to properly price in externalities (global warming, pollution etc.).
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on May 12, 2022, 10:47
You talk about supply and demand, so ask yourself this. Who stopped the Keystone pipepline and cancelled oil and natural gas exploration permits? Who artificially and intentionally constrained supply and caused the price of oil to go up?

Nobody stopped the Keystone pipeline.

Oh, wait, you meant the KeystoneXL which was for garbage tar sands from which the oil would mostly be exported?  Is that what you meant?

Oh wait, nobody cancelled permits.  https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/new-data-biden-slays-trumps-first-year-drilling-permitting-by-34-2022-01-21/ "New federal data shows the Biden administration approved 3,557 permits for oil and gas drilling on public lands in its first year, far outpacing the Trump administration’s first-year total of 2,658."

Oh, wait, you're talking about OPEC who constrains supply to make the price go up?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Minsc on May 12, 2022, 10:58
You talk about supply and demand, so ask yourself this. Who stopped the Keystone pipepline and cancelled oil and natural gas exploration permits? Who artificially and intentionally constrained supply and caused the price of oil to go up?

Nobody stopped the Keystone pipeline.

Oh, wait, you meant the KeystoneXL which was for garbage tar sands from which the oil would mostly be exported?  Is that what you meant?

Oh wait, nobody cancelled permits.  https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/new-data-biden-slays-trumps-first-year-drilling-permitting-by-34-2022-01-21/ (https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/new-data-biden-slays-trumps-first-year-drilling-permitting-by-34-2022-01-21/) "New federal data shows the Biden administration approved 3,557 permits for oil and gas drilling on public lands in its first year, far outpacing the Trump administration’s first-year total of 2,658."

Oh, wait, you're talking about OPEC who constrains supply to make the price go up?

You're right, it's not the permits, it's the leases. That was my little mistake, but the point still stands.

Biden paused all new oil and natural gas leashes, effectively slowed production. They only recently resumed in April because out of desperation, only to cancel even more leases. Want proof, here it is:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/biden-administration-pausing-new-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/24/biden-administration-pausing-new-oil-and-gas-leases-amid-legal-battle-.html)

Biden continue to cancel leases, this on in the last 24 hours:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-admin-cancels-oil-gas-lease-sale-record-high-prices (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/biden-admin-cancels-oil-gas-lease-sale-record-high-prices)

And you want to talk about OPEC? They won't pick up the phone because they don't respect Biden, kinda like the rest of the world.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: ShadySue on May 12, 2022, 12:26
...they don't respect Biden, kinda like the rest of the world.
I can assure you, the 'rest of the world' (I can't speak for everyone, but from what I'm hearing and reading) respects Biden.
We didn't respect Trump, recognised him as an idiot ("does China have hurricane guns?") and couldn't imagine why anyone would vote for him.
I'd vote for Howling ‘Laud’ Hope before I'd vote for Trump.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: angelawaye on May 12, 2022, 12:45
They want us fighting each other so we are distracted. That is what I see now. 2 wings of the same bird ...
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Myphotobase on May 12, 2022, 12:49
...they don't respect Biden, kinda like the rest of the world.
I can assure you, the 'rest of the world' (I can't speak for everyone, but from what I'm hearing and reading) respects Biden.
We didn't respect Trump, recognised him as an idiot ("does China have hurricane guns?") and couldn't imagine why anyone would vote for him.
I'd vote for Howling ‘Laud’ Hope before I'd vote for Trump.

Trump is completely senile, always repreating the same old stuff over and over again. The GOP should find someone who is not completely corrupted or weird. Their party is cangrened with Qanon followers.. and russian trolls.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: BK on May 12, 2022, 13:38
There are no taxes on the price of crude. That’s market driven. And no matter how much drilling the US does, it’s still a global market price for crude that’s impacted by production of OPEC+. As for Keystone, those tar sands are the most expensive to extract, so it’s not profitable below like $100 per barrel. And the oil companies already have tons of leased land that they’re not producing from. Partly because it takes time to ramp up production after the low prices during Covid. And partly because they’re enjoying the record profits. And you’re right, I’m not really impacted by inflation because I’m a micro stock photographer 😉
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Diana Herrmann on May 13, 2022, 06:54
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

It's funny how conservatives worldwide always claim recession and inflation are the fault of the current government and never based on the mistakes of the former one.

And funny that the Liberals in power always blame the former people, instead of the current government in power, for all the problems.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Myphotobase on May 13, 2022, 14:28
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

It's funny how conservatives worldwide always claim recession and inflation are the fault of the current government and never based on the mistakes of the former one.

And funny that the Liberals in power always blame the former people, instead of the current government in power, for all the problems.

And funny how everybody is blaming someone else for something they did...
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on May 13, 2022, 23:08
...  The price of oil has nearly doubled since early last year, not gone up 50 cents. The price of food also nearly doubled

 
neither is true

WTI Crude Oil Prices - 10 Year Daily Chart | MacroTrendshttps://www.macrotrends.net › wti-crude-oil-prices-10-...
Year   Average; Closing Price   Year Open   Year High   Year Low   Year Close   Annual; % Chan...
2022   $97.43   $76.08   $123.70   $76.08   $106.13   41.11%
2021   $68.17   $47.62   $84.65   $47.62   $75.21   55.01%


and oil prices have been dropping -

food prices have gone up < 10%
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Trippy on May 14, 2022, 12:17
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

Right wing troll.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: heywoody on May 16, 2022, 16:58
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

Right wing troll.


You're not wrong - funny how government responsibility for external events varies based on who's in power - quote from the OP on another thread below.


These folks have a different opinions / core beliefs that depend on the wind direction on any given day


"A lot of economies were hit far harder than the US. To say that the US was hit disproportionately harder is a lie. Look at the chart below. The UK was hit far harder.https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy (https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy)The dollar is the currency which all other currencies measure to. If the economic activity in the US is low, it's going to fall. The fall of the dollar is directly tied to US economy, which has been greatly affected by the pandemic. It's a black swan event.The national debt will always rise to unprecedented levels. Even rising a dollar from yesterday is unprecedented. The rise of the national debt in 2020 is also directly tied to the pandemic. The economic stimulus plan didn't come out of nowhere and it was supported by both Republicans and Democrats. The 2nd stimulus plan, which is being discussed right now will further add to the debt. The Republicans has proposed a conservative plan, while Democrats propose a plan loaded with pork. They want to include hundreds of billions of dollars as a blank check to poorly run Democrat-controlled cities. They want to include billions in free handouts to unions. They want to bail out failed cities like Detroit, Chicago and Baltimore. And when the bill hits home, they're going to point the finger at Trump, and say "The national debt rose to unprecedented levels under Trump." and pretend they're angels.https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/10/12/pelosis-stimulus-bill-an-unhelpful-spending-spree/ (https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/10/12/pelosis-stimulus-bill-an-unhelpful-spending-spree/)I'm also paying roughly the same price for food that I did in March. If some food prices rise, it's because of supply and demand, not because of the something Trump did. You're reaching far too much to blame black swan events on the president."
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on May 17, 2022, 10:15
Nice "symmetry"!  ;D

Obviously, critical thinking is more challenging than being a Hannity, Carlson, Pirro or Ingraham mouthpiece.  ::)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on May 17, 2022, 21:25
...they don't respect Biden, kinda like the rest of the world.
I can assure you, the 'rest of the world' (I can't speak for everyone, but from what I'm hearing and reading) respects Biden.
We didn't respect Trump, recognised him as an idiot ("does China have hurricane guns?") and couldn't imagine why anyone would vote for him.
I'd vote for Howling ‘Laud’ Hope before I'd vote for Trump.

I am from EU country and i can say that I will always respect any President from USA. I like Biden but had difficulty to understand Trump.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 19, 2022, 21:45
They want us fighting each other so we are distracted. That is what I see now. 2 wings of the same bird ...

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jnf0V7Pk/first_place_award_90.jpg)

Agreement. 1) Divide and distract from the real and important issues. (which would at least be moderated, less polarized by honest negotiations while trying to resolve the actual problems.)   2) Blame the other side.

My question for years is, who do these politicians really represent? Not the people or the honest long term good of the country. Which leaves, themselves and their party.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on May 20, 2022, 00:36


My question for years is, who do these politicians really represent? Not the people or the honest long term good of the country. Which leaves, themselves and their party.

It leaves a bit more options.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 20, 2022, 09:29


My question for years is, who do these politicians really represent? Not the people or the honest long term good of the country. Which leaves, themselves and their party.

It leaves a bit more options.

Yes, money, lobbyists, special interest groups, pandering to a social cause, and still number one, Themselves!   ;D
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Diana Herrmann on May 30, 2022, 09:46
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

Lets Go Brandon
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on May 30, 2022, 14:52
Lets Go Brandon

Hey, in a cutesy code way, Diana tried to say “Fuck Joe Biden”. She doesn’t like Joe Biden!

See Diana?  Nobody cares.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: PigsInSpace on May 30, 2022, 15:32
Brandon beat Trump, so keep cheering him on.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Stock4Me on May 31, 2022, 07:14
Brandon beat Trump, so keep cheering him on.

Trump did alot to beat Trump too.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on May 31, 2022, 08:34
Lets Go Brandon

Hey, in a cutesy code way, Diana tried to say “Fuck Joe Biden”. She doesn’t like Joe Biden!

See Diana?  Nobody cares.

Not even "Brandon":
https://youtu.be/pR-16jcccOw
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 01, 2022, 11:38
Lets Go Brandon

Hey, in a cutesy code way, Diana tried to say “Fuck Joe Biden”. She doesn’t like Joe Biden!

See Diana?  Nobody cares.

Not even "Brandon":
https://youtu.be/pR-16jcccOw

I think the whole Brandon thing is funny, especially how the NASCAR announcer had no clue. Lets not let politics ruin a sense of humor and irony.

"NEW YORK - The phrase 'Let’s go, Brandon' can be traced back to an Oct. 2 NASCAR race at the Talladega Superspeedway in Alabama.

Driver Brandon Brown had won his first Xfinity Series and was being interviewed by an NBC Sports reporter.

The crowd behind him was chanting something. The reporter suggested they were chanting "Let’s go, Brandon" for the driver."

I'm going to ignore the rest. Now NASCAR has dealt with the problem, by adjusting the mics that are used, and ambient background audio. Last race I listened to, it seemed they had a bit of stock crowd noise, playing behind the interview. A repeating soft cheer, like you would hear when someone is introduced. Once again, technology adjusts for the times and specific situations.  :)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on June 01, 2022, 12:57
Lets Go Brandon

Hey, in a cutesy code way, Diana tried to say “Fuck Joe Biden”. She doesn’t like Joe Biden!

See Diana?  Nobody cares.

Not even "Brandon":
https://youtu.be/pR-16jcccOw

I think the whole Brandon thing is funny, especially how the NASCAR announcer had no clue. Lets not let politics ruin a sense of humor and irony.

"NEW YORK - The phrase 'Let’s go, Brandon' can be traced back to an Oct. 2 NASCAR race at the Talladega Superspeedway in Alabama.

Driver Brandon Brown had won his first Xfinity Series and was being interviewed by an NBC Sports reporter.

The crowd behind him was chanting something. The reporter suggested they were chanting "Let’s go, Brandon" for the driver."

I'm going to ignore the rest. Now NASCAR has dealt with the problem, by adjusting the mics that are used, and ambient background audio. Last race I listened to, it seemed they had a bit of stock crowd noise, playing behind the interview. A repeating soft cheer, like you would hear when someone is introduced. Once again, technology adjusts for the times and specific situations.  :)

Yep, even Biden is cracking jokes about it, as we can see in that clip.
Self-deprecating humor is reserved for intelligent people.
Great to see this type of humor again, after a gap of 4 years filled with childish name-callings!
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on June 01, 2022, 17:05
Lets Go Brandon

Hey, in a cutesy code way, Diana tried to say “Fuck Joe Biden”. She doesn’t like Joe Biden!

See Diana?  Nobody cares.

Not even "Brandon":
https://youtu.be/pR-16jcccOw

That's hilarious. Especially the part about the Fox News Reporters !  ;D
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on June 01, 2022, 21:29
Lets Go Brandon

Hey, in a cutesy code way, Diana tried to say “Fuck Joe Biden”. She doesn’t like Joe Biden!

See Diana?  Nobody cares.

Not even "Brandon":
https://youtu.be/pR-16jcccOw

That's hilarious. Especially the part about the Fox News Reporters !  ;D

 ;D

Watch Biden's full remarks here:
https://youtu.be/CdzGHBUEMY8

... and Trevor Noah's comments here:
https://youtu.be/_fpxCuorKjA

Funny!
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on June 01, 2022, 22:19
Lets Go Brandon

Hey, in a cutesy code way, Diana tried to say “Fuck Joe Biden”. She doesn’t like Joe Biden!

See Diana?  Nobody cares.

Not even "Brandon":
https://youtu.be/pR-16jcccOw

That's hilarious. Especially the part about the Fox News Reporters !  ;D

 ;D

Watch Biden's full remarks here:
https://youtu.be/CdzGHBUEMY8

... and Trevor Noah's comments here:
https://youtu.be/_fpxCuorKjA

Funny!

watched half of Trevor Noah. yes, very funny. Will watch all the rest later. Thanks for the links!
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: nataq on June 06, 2022, 11:16
I'm not American, so I consider myself objective - though you can never be really objective.
I'd recommend to burry all your hate and viewing as many trustful sources around the world as you can. If you do that objectively, that might dramatically change your mind and improve your mood. Hate is driving this world deeper and deeper into a crisis and unless we start understanding that we are in all this together, that won't change.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 07, 2022, 09:07
I'm not American, so I consider myself objective - though you can never be really objective.
I'd recommend to burry all your hate and viewing as many trustful sources around the world as you can. If you do that objectively, that might dramatically change your mind and improve your mood. Hate is driving this world deeper and deeper into a crisis and unless we start understanding that we are in all this together, that won't change.

Thank you for a positive observation.

I'll add that the President has become more of a figurehead type leader than the one who makes the decisions that run the country. Sure a very important person for timely issues, but blaming whoever it is for the economy, a war, some new law, or other matters that The President doesn't control, is just divisive politics. What I mean is, the President is influential but the House  and Senate control much more, and the Supreme Court monitors what the other three try to do.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on June 24, 2022, 18:14
January 6 Senate Committee Hearings.

Not sure where to put this, but seeing this was a former political thread, I am most interested in knowing others opinions. In particular, if you are a moderate, independent, or previous trump voter - have these televised committee hearings changed your opinion of trump, and/or how you will vote later this year?

Also, other recent events, such as the overturning of Roe v Wade, and the recent Republicans’ drive to tilt courts against climate action.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-drive-tilt-courts-against-152802826.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-drive-tilt-courts-against-152802826.html)

ETA. Or will it be down to the economy?  (bringing it back to the original thread theme)



Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on June 24, 2022, 18:21
I seriously doubt that the hearings have an impact on Trump's cult, Annie.

https://youtu.be/hNIJH5gufaQ
 :D
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on June 24, 2022, 18:31
I seriously doubt that the hearings have an impact on Trump's cult.

https://youtu.be/hNIJH5gufaQ
 :D

Video not available in Australia. But I agree with you that it most likely won't have an effect on right wing extremists or those who only watch Fox News.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on June 24, 2022, 18:36
I seriously doubt that the hearings have an impact on Trump's cult.

https://youtu.be/hNIJH5gufaQ
 :D

Video not available in Australia. But I agree with you that it most likely won't have an effect on right wing extremists or those who only watch Fox News.

Maybe this one: https://youtu.be/sjoI85MoXjM (or you could try to circumvent country restrictions with a VPN).

Spoiler alert, some of these cult followers suspect that even Fox News is part of some anti-Trump conspiracy! Imagine that!  ;D)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: farbled on June 24, 2022, 18:48
January 6 Senate Committee Hearings.

Not sure where to put this, but seeing this was a former political thread, I am most interested in knowing others opinions. In particular, if you are a moderate, independent, or previous trump voter - have these televised committee hearings changed your opinion of trump, and/or how you will vote later this year?

Also, other recent events, such as the overturning of Roe v Wade, and the recent Republicans’ drive to tilt courts against climate action.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-drive-tilt-courts-against-152802826.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-drive-tilt-courts-against-152802826.html)

ETA. Or will it be down to the economy?  (bringing it back to the original thread theme)


So much anger down there (watching from Canada here). What frightens me is what happens there often gets reflected up here at some point in some way. Just so much anger and nothing about compromise, bridge building, or anything from anyone (it seems from the outside looking in). I was reading that 1 in 3 Americans see violence as a perfectly acceptable option for change of government. (WaPo Jan 1, 2022)

As for the economy, if Trump (or a Trump-lite alternative) wins, it'll be bad news for Canada for a while. He uses tariffs instead of words. The only saving grace I see from the far right is they are prone to cannibalism. Remember Mitt Romney used to be "far right" but is now considered moderate even though his views haven't changed at all.


Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on June 24, 2022, 19:13
I seriously doubt that the hearings have an impact on Trump's cult.

https://youtu.be/hNIJH5gufaQ
 :D

Video not available in Australia. But I agree with you that it most likely won't have an effect on right wing extremists or those who only watch Fox News.

Maybe this one: https://youtu.be/sjoI85MoXjM (or you could try to circumvent country restrictions with a VPN).

Spoiler alert, some of these cult followers suspect that even Fox News is part of some anti-Trump conspiracy! Imagine that!  ;D)

$9 to $4,000 a ticket !!!  Ivanka clone, Nancy Pelosi was responsible for the insurrection, Obama is still in the basement. A juicy conspiracy theory is far more believable than the truth!
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: wordplanet on June 25, 2022, 15:00
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

I wonder, have you been watching the actual Trump conspiracy which culminated in Jan 6? Maybe stop watching Fox ("News" LOL) and get some actual information about what's going on in the real world.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on June 29, 2022, 20:21
What happened to the Roe v Wade thread?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on June 29, 2022, 21:39
What happened to the Roe v Wade thread?

I really don't know Annie.
I was the one who start the topic "off-topic" and my guess is that probably was removed by some moderator.
Maybe some people did not like and report it.

I care about people and my concern was genuine about what was happening in the news. And I know this is a forum about microstock but despite being an off-topic subject like this one, it didn't seem very democratic to end it.



   

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on June 30, 2022, 00:19
What happened to the Roe v Wade thread?

I really don't know Annie.
I was the one who start the topic "off-topic" and my guess is that probably was removed by some moderator.
Maybe some people did not like and report it.

I care about people and my concern was genuine about what was happening in the news. And I know this is a forum about microstock but despite being an off-topic subject like this one, it didn't seem very democratic to end it.



 

Yes, Evaristo, I remember you were the one who started it, and that it was in the off-topic section. Personally, I think every major news topic is a subject for microstock, and not so off-topic. Smart people would be out there already shooting the protests, signage of family planning clinics, even things like pregnancy test kits, etc. These type of threads can give people good ideas for what to shoot that's in current demand. And as for the arguing that comes up in these threads, then the moderators can always delete just the offending posts, as had been done recently in another thread. I'm with you. 

Infographs about how the USA judiciary system works, abortion rights word clouds, signage and head office buildings of all the companies who have offered their help to women, state and supreme court houses, are just some of the things that come to mind. In other words, all of the things that came up in that thread can make good stock. Illustrators could have a field day.

(I have a feeling that it wasn't Leaf, the main moderator, who is usually very tolerant. I was wondering whether someone put it in the 'garbage'?)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on June 30, 2022, 02:18
Political debates are often censored or taken down here after a while. I can understand why leaf deletes the threads when they get too off the rails and personally I am not complaining. He didn’t create this forum to have to moderate political debates and it’s his his house, but I sometimes wish they were still about.

If some of the old ones were up people could see some of the lunacy that has gone before and maybe not bother engaging with extremists or even exterminationists.

I mean there were people on political threads literally lamenting that NATO prevented their country from the genocide of Muslims because “now there are mosques everywhere” or spouting the most insane Q anon conspiracy theories you can imagine (great replacement theory, great reset etc).
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on July 01, 2022, 21:10
my guess is that probably was removed by some moderator.

There is only one moderator who can do that, the site owner. From the past, there are no other moderators. It's his site, he has that right.

When the discussion stops being point and counter-point and becomes personal attacks or lopsided, biased insulting attacks, (from opposing sides of the opinions) there's a high probability that it will disappear.  8)

A juicy conspiracy theory is far more believable than the truth!

Yeah and I can never understand why? Seemingly intelligent people, will get fooled and spread the disinformation, as if it's factual?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: UPLOAD-UPLOAD-UPLOAD on July 08, 2022, 15:11
It strikes me odd that people blame politicians for whatever goes on in the FREE MARKET economy.
Yeah, people are mad because of the very high inflation and yes the fed tries to tamper that
down with higher interest rates.
Republicans of course blame the Democrats for the only reason that Democrats are in power.
Now in November it really bothers me that Republicans will take over the Congress and exercise
power. Biden is not a particularly strong President, he has to be pushed into doing things, so Republicans
will run all over him. Trouble for the Republicans, who have never cured anything, they will find themselves
dealing with high inflation, the Ukraine war and a shrinking economy and with attacking human rights and liberty.
Two years later Americans will be seriously mad at the Republicans and vote in Democrats.
So it goes it's an endless and silly blame game.
Neither party has much control over anything, so they blame the party in charge.
Me? Because of the 6 January insurrection, I consider Republicans to be traitors. Any American that supports a guy
that attacks and denigrates American veterans, our fallen soldiers and disabled warriors, along with the handicapped
is not an American at all and is actually a piece of rotten rat feces.
But that's just me.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 09, 2022, 01:59
my guess is that probably was removed by some moderator.

There is only one moderator who can do that, the site owner. From the past, there are no other moderators. It's his site, he has that right.

When the discussion stops being point and counter-point and becomes personal attacks or lopsided, biased insulting attacks, (from opposing sides of the opinions) there's a high probability that it will disappear.  8)

A juicy conspiracy theory is far more believable than the truth!

Yeah and I can never understand why? Seemingly intelligent people, will get fooled and spread the disinformation, as if it's factual?


My best thanks Uncle Pete for sharing this info. It wasn't exactly my idea when I made this topic. But I agree that there were times when I also felt that things could get a little more tense.

Either way, I do respect choices of moderator.   
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on July 09, 2022, 11:05

Neither party has much control over anything, so they blame the party in charge.


Sure as the Sun will rise and set again tomorrow.  :)

(although it's really not, it's the horizon moving because the Earth spins, but one thing that makes them the same is politics is nothing but viewpoints and spins)

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 19, 2022, 17:56
"Extreme heat in 21 European countries and USA danger zones with 100 million plus population, threaten food supply, travel and even lives.

Multiple heatwaves across the globe. London officials saying they have never seen heatwaves on this scale before. In Spain, France, and Italy, wildfires are spreading rapidly. In major cities, travel is disrupted, trains & flights are cancelled due to the heat and causing a global ripple effect.  Hundreds have died in Portugal. Over a 1,000 deaths in Europe. Scientists have been warning about global warming for decades, and now say that heat devastation is here and is a crisis." (Source: CNN)

Forget about the economy, covid, pandemics, rising prices - the climate is going to get us in the end if nothing is done about it. I am not sure what other countries' governments are doing, Australia has changed its federal government party recently, but the USA Senate doesn't even have the necessary 60 votes to remotely address this.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on July 19, 2022, 18:51
Relax...

(https://i.ibb.co/F8NNQPh/294155417-3229090777357271-2604733522143980209-n.jpg)

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 19, 2022, 19:54
"Heat alerts across 20 USA states. Fire west of Forth Worth burning more than 500 acres. Chalk Mountain fire burning 1,000 acres. Fires straining power grids in Texas. Boston declares heat emergency today. Sweltering summer that has shattered heat records across the USA. Climate prediction center forecasts dangerous conditions will prevail over the next few weeks for much of 48 states.

Today was the hottest day ever recorded in most of Europe. Record temperatures recorded in France, Ireland and Germany. Record breaking heatwave in UK.  London has for the first time ever issued a red warning for extreme heat.  Airport runways are melting. The sun is buckling train tracks. Surge of huge fires across UK's capitol. The British government has estimated that these extreme temperatures have been made 10 times more likely by human impact.

There were so many emergencies in London today that the Fire Brigade has run out of all their fire engines."

This was the news that I woke up to this morning.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on July 19, 2022, 22:20


Today was the hottest day ever recorded in most of Europe.


Fun scientific facts:


Hottest temperature recorded in Europe was 48.0 °C in Greece (Athens) on July 10, 1977.

US record: 10 July 1913 , 56.7 °C

So climate changes didn't even manage to break the records from times way before them.







Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 20, 2022, 00:06
"Heat alerts across 20 USA states. Fire west of Forth Worth burning more than 500 acres. Chalk Mountain fire burning 1,000 acres. Fires straining power grids in Texas. Boston declares heat emergency today. Sweltering summer that has shattered heat records across the USA. Climate prediction center forecasts dangerous conditions will prevail over the next few weeks for much of 48 states.

Today was the hottest day ever recorded in most of Europe. Record temperatures recorded in France, Ireland and Germany. Record breaking heatwave in UK.  London has for the first time ever issued a red warning for extreme heat.  Airport runways are melting. The sun is buckling train tracks. Surge of huge fires across UK's capitol. The British government has estimated that these extreme temperatures have been made 10 times more likely by human impact.

There were so many emergencies in London today that the Fire Brigade has run out of all their fire engines."

This was the news that I woke up to this morning.

The world is about a century behind the times when it comes to energy science. One needs to ask, why?  And who is behind blocking this progress? Turning people against people and making it all political.  It shouldn't even be a subject for debate.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 20, 2022, 05:28
US record: 10 July 1913 , 56.7 °C

So climate changes didn't even manage to break the records from times way before them.

"For ninety years, a former record that was measured in Libya had been in place, until it was decertified in 2012 based on evidence that it was an erroneous reading. This finding has since raised questions about the legitimacy of the 1913 record measured in Death Valley, with several meteorological experts asserting that there were similar irregularities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest_temperature_recorded_on_Earth

Apart from that: The climate change does not necessarily mean that it is getting hotter everywhere to the same degree. Generally speaking, the polar regions are expected to see higher increases in temperature than tropical regions.

Also places where high temperature readings are the result of extreme micro climate conditions as in the Death Valley may not see an increase in temperature readings to the same degree other places.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Pacesetter on July 20, 2022, 07:06
These photos don't do justice to the incredible erosion along Cronulla beach in Sydney's South - which just happened during very severe weather last week. Where you could walk down to the beach, you now need to slide down a drop of four to eight feet (or more) depending on where you enter the beach at. If you look closely at the photos, this erosion stretches right across the entire beach. I talked to two guys down there on Sunday who've been there for years and they said never seen anything like it.

(https://esp-prod-west.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/submission/thumbnails/batch_27591937/6548549424795616_cronullabeacherosion1.jpg?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIA576K7E3NYQCQR7VQ%2F20220720%2Fus-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220720T120053Z&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=11900493b512b016729dfd82e3a40163fb4561e4eadd115725c3f3db1b079b87)

(https://esp-prod-west.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/submission/thumbnails/batch_27591937/413841706806819_cronullabeacherosion3.jpg?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIA576K7E3NYQCQR7VQ%2F20220720%2Fus-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220720T120053Z&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=45c9a0138b96eea1dbb46b760f3256962cc97f655b701d1dee0dbc6d15e065cb)

(https://esp-prod-west.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/submission/thumbnails/batch_27591937/12025589934700598_cronullabeacherosion2.jpg?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIA576K7E3NYQCQR7VQ%2F20220720%2Fus-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220720T120053Z&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=a5553a71b0b6d7358ee88b32d5808888466e61de91da84157090c081cfd67f35)


Sydney itself is experiencing the wettest weather on record with both the wettest start to the year and likewise for the month of July. I grew up on Georges River at East Hills in Sydney's South West and my dad had owned the place since the 1950s. There were some big floods there over the decades, including two I can remember in 1986 and 1988. But none of this remotely compares to this year with already 4 major floods, 3 of which entered the lower house just this year alone. Other communities around the state of NSW have been decimated by the floods of March 2022 / July 2022.  Check out my drone video (link below) of the most recent flood on 3 July 2022 in the neighbourhood at East Hills where I grew up in. For perspective, the flood waters you see in the yards of the properties there are well over your head in depth as you move closer to the river. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4le2vt1QUdY&t=22s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4le2vt1QUdY&t=22s)     

My family were not prepared for this most recent flood (which rose very rapidly) and didn't have time to move valuable furniture / appliances on the lower level which were destroyed by the flood waters. As a consequence of the frequent flooding there this year, my sister is now selling the family home of about 65 years. The weather systems in Sydney seems like it has permanently changed. This follows the drought we had experienced in recent years, only ending in those devastating bushfires in late 2019/2020 which were televised around the world.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 20, 2022, 10:21


Today was the hottest day ever recorded in most of Europe.


Fun scientific facts:


Hottest temperature recorded in Europe was 48.0 °C in Greece (Athens) on July 10, 1977.

US record: 10 July 1913 , 56.7 °C

So climate changes didn't even manage to break the records from times way before them.

It appears you don't understand the difference between "weather" (localized measurements and occurrences) and "climate" (overall patterns and trends).
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 20, 2022, 11:31


Today was the hottest day ever recorded in most of Europe.


Fun scientific facts:


Hottest temperature recorded in Europe was 48.0 °C in Greece (Athens) on July 10, 1977.

US record: 10 July 1913 , 56.7 °C

So climate changes didn't even manage to break the records from times way before them.

It appears you don't understand the difference between "weather" (localized measurements and occurrences) and "climate" (overall patterns and trends).
I think it's more some people don’t understand "reality" vs "magical thinking" at some point you have to just give up.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 20, 2022, 12:14
...
The world is about a century behind the times when it comes to energy science. One needs to ask, why?  And who is behind blocking this progress? Turning people against people and making it all political.  It shouldn't even be a subject for debate.

unfortunately, it IS political - esp'ly w US troglodyte republicans & their oil industry masters (and one dem bot by the coal industry)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/17/us/politics/climate-change-manchin-biden.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/17/us/politics/climate-change-manchin-biden.html)

Texas education officials convened teams of volunteers to rewrite the existing standards, and industry members volunteered for those writing teams and shaped the language around energy and climate. Industry members rallied to testify each time proposals to revise standards got a public hearing.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/subverting-climate-science-in-the-classroom/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/subverting-climate-science-in-the-classroom/)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cathyslife on July 20, 2022, 13:24
It’s just the latest thing we’re supposed to be afraid of. The sky is falling! The fix for climate change ... higher taxes! LOL. Like man has any power over changing the climate.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bs4MVY7nD8
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on July 20, 2022, 13:53
LOL. Like man has any power over changing the climate.

You could benefit from following up with some science. You know, the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment which scientists have devoted their lifes to in order to accumulate knowledge that makes them come to the conclusion that, yes, man has power over changing the climate. It's embarassing how many people think they have more knowledge over things others have studied for decades or how they think something like a quick youtube video can give them better education that decades of scientific study.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 20, 2022, 16:47
These photos don't do justice to the incredible erosion along Cronulla beach in Sydney's South - which just happened during very severe weather last week. Where you could walk down to the beach, you now need to slide down a drop of four to eight feet (or more) depending on where you enter the beach at. If you look closely at the photos, this erosion stretches right across the entire beach. I talked to two guys down there on Sunday who've been there for years and they said never seen anything like it.

(https://esp-prod-west.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/submission/thumbnails/batch_27591937/6548549424795616_cronullabeacherosion1.jpg?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIA576K7E3NYQCQR7VQ%2F20220720%2Fus-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220720T120053Z&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=11900493b512b016729dfd82e3a40163fb4561e4eadd115725c3f3db1b079b87)

(https://esp-prod-west.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/submission/thumbnails/batch_27591937/413841706806819_cronullabeacherosion3.jpg?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIA576K7E3NYQCQR7VQ%2F20220720%2Fus-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220720T120053Z&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=45c9a0138b96eea1dbb46b760f3256962cc97f655b701d1dee0dbc6d15e065cb)

(https://esp-prod-west.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/submission/thumbnails/batch_27591937/12025589934700598_cronullabeacherosion2.jpg?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIA576K7E3NYQCQR7VQ%2F20220720%2Fus-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220720T120053Z&X-Amz-Expires=604800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=a5553a71b0b6d7358ee88b32d5808888466e61de91da84157090c081cfd67f35)


Sydney itself is experiencing the wettest weather on record with both the wettest start to the year and likewise for the month of July. I grew up on Georges River at East Hills in Sydney's South West and my dad had owned the place since the 1950s. There were some big floods there over the decades, including two I can remember in 1986 and 1988. But none of this remotely compares to this year with already 4 major floods, 3 of which entered the lower house just this year alone. Other communities around the state of NSW have been decimated by the floods of March 2022 / July 2022.  Check out my drone video (link below) of the most recent flood on 3 July 2022 in the neighbourhood at East Hills where I grew up in. For perspective, the flood waters you see in the yards of the properties there are well over your head in depth as you move closer to the river. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4le2vt1QUdY&t=22s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4le2vt1QUdY&t=22s)     

My family were not prepared for this most recent flood (which rose very rapidly) and didn't have time to move valuable furniture / appliances on the lower level which were destroyed by the flood waters. As a consequence of the frequent flooding there this year, my sister is now selling the family home of about 65 years. The weather systems in Sydney seems like it has permanently changed. This follows the drought we had experienced in recent years, only ending in those devastating bushfires in late 2019/2020 which were televised around the world.

Oh Pace. That's shocking. I am so sorry its affecting you and your family so dramatically.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 20, 2022, 16:48
...
The world is about a century behind the times when it comes to energy science. One needs to ask, why?  And who is behind blocking this progress? Turning people against people and making it all political.  It shouldn't even be a subject for debate.

unfortunately, it IS political - esp'ly w US troglodyte republicans & their oil industry masters (and one dem bot by the coal industry)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/17/us/politics/climate-change-manchin-biden.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/17/us/politics/climate-change-manchin-biden.html)

Texas education officials convened teams of volunteers to rewrite the existing standards, and industry members volunteered for those writing teams and shaped the language around energy and climate. Industry members rallied to testify each time proposals to revise standards got a public hearing.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/subverting-climate-science-in-the-classroom/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/subverting-climate-science-in-the-classroom/)

thanks!

And the ironical part is that Texas is one of the worse affected areas at the moment.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 20, 2022, 16:54
It’s just the latest thing we’re supposed to be afraid of. The sky is falling! The fix for climate change ... higher taxes! LOL. Like man has any power over changing the climate.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bs4MVY7nD8

No, no human being can change anything. If these stupid aliens would finally stop tilting the earth's axis and irradiating the polar caps, the permafrost soils and the Amazon rain forests with their high-power lasers.
But as long as we cannot convert these aliens, we humans should in any case continue as before.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 20, 2022, 17:00
LOL. Like man has any power over changing the climate.

You could benefit from following up with some science. You know, the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment which scientists have devoted their lifes to in order to accumulate knowledge that makes them come to the conclusion that, yes, man has power over changing the climate. It's embarassing how many people think they have more knowledge over things others have studied for decades or how they think something like a quick youtube video can give them better education that decades of scientific study.

Well said Firn!

One just needs to logically follow it through.

Increase in fossil fuel production (transport, manufacturing, electricity production, and their combustion) = increase in gases ( CO2, methane, N2O, CFC that absorb some part of solar radiation and reflects it in all directions, including Earth’s surface preventing it from escaping the atmosphere) = increase in our planet's temperatures = increase in heat devastation around the world simultaneously.

Poles melting (see NASA's before and after pics) converts to precipitation which has to go somewhere. So where's it going? Well, at the moment, its being dumped on Pace and his family!


Just cut it off at the source.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Pacesetter on July 21, 2022, 00:33
Thanks Annie, indeed it's been one crazy year of rolling severe weather in Sydney, incidentally my first year here since 2008 after moving back from Canberra. 
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 21, 2022, 00:51
Thanks Annie, indeed it's been one crazy year of rolling severe weather in Sydney, incidentally my first year here since 2008 after moving back from Canberra.

Yeah, I know. I was watching your drone shot. Incredible weather!

Anyway, just make sure the aliens don't get you (I am still laughing at Wilm's response above. lol)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: UPLOAD-UPLOAD-UPLOAD on July 21, 2022, 01:02
Here is the truth.
You can cut the production of coal, oil and gas. Easy to do. Just pass some laws.
Then when power goes out because climate change does not react overnight, when jobs are
cut, when the voters go crazy and throw out the politicians things turn around over night.
The production of fossil fuels resumes, more tons of CO2 are tossed into the atmosphere
and we are back to square one.
Obviously that's not the answer.
Technology is the answer. Until nuclear fusion is made workable, until the CO2 is taken out
of the air with new technology things are only going to get worse.
It does no good for California to go green crazy when China, Russia and OPEC laugh and produce
even more hydrocarbon fuels.
Technology is the answer.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11031771/Scientists-developing-train-car-remove-3-000-tonnes-CO2-air-year.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11031771/Scientists-developing-train-car-remove-3-000-tonnes-CO2-air-year.html)
This is one solution. If it can be scaled down to where every car has one of these, then you will see progress.
Cutting the production of hydrocarbons is like slicing your own throat.
Civilization needs power. There is no way around that.
Another painful way is to legislate every new building must have solar panels.
Every house, factory, store, and hotel must have solar panels.
Here is another solution.
https://www.solarwindow.com/ (https://www.solarwindow.com/)
Cutting energy production will get you tossed out off office faster than you can turn the lights out.
The hard truth is it will take 30 years to turn this thing around but progress is being made. Slowly.
Germany is the classic example of being energy stupid. They went green crazy, sucked up to Ivan for
cheap natural gas, did away with their nuclear power plants and installed millions and millions of solar panels
all over the country. Now they are having to dig more coal to produce more power.
Yup, they dug their own hole they are now desperate to get out of.
We did not get into this climate change problem overnight and we are not going to get out of it overnight.
Nuclear power plants, solar power, forest management, smart farming can all help but the hard truth nobody
want to talk about is there are too damned many people on this planet and more are being created every day.
So maybe we need a nice nuclear war. Create nuclear winter, cut the population. Yeah, some people advocate that
crazy crap. I don't.
Every time you pop open a carbonated soft drink you are putting CO2 into the air. Your demand for those soft drinks
creates factories that pour out more CO2 into the atmosphere. It's not just power plants that pollute.
People are the worst problem.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 21, 2022, 01:40
Thanks Annie, indeed it's been one crazy year of rolling severe weather in Sydney, incidentally my first year here since 2008 after moving back from Canberra.

Yeah, I know. I was watching your drone shot. Incredible weather!

Anyway, just make sure the aliens don't get you (I am still laughing at Wilm's response above. lol)

Annie,

do not underestimate the influence of the aliens!
There is a "Dr. Coldwell" here. Actually, he's not a Dr., but he likes to call himself one to give his thinking a scientific touch.

He is the one who announced that in September 2021 most of the people vaccinated against Corona would die.

After that didn't happen, he let humanity know in October 2021 that the vaccine was a mixture of cancer cells and spider eggs that aliens were using to wipe out humanity. He sold a dietary supplement that would save vaccinated people from this horrible fate.

Against this background, I must naturally assume that Bezos' and Musk's private space programs serve solely to contact the aliens in order to participate in the extermination of their own customers.

Anyway: you can easily see that the aliens are a life-threatening problem.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 21, 2022, 02:33
Thanks Annie, indeed it's been one crazy year of rolling severe weather in Sydney, incidentally my first year here since 2008 after moving back from Canberra.

Yeah, I know. I was watching your drone shot. Incredible weather!

Anyway, just make sure the aliens don't get you (I am still laughing at Wilm's response above. lol)

Annie,

do not underestimate the influence of the aliens!
There is a "Dr. Coldwell" here. Actually, he's not a Dr., but he likes to call himself one to give his thinking a scientific touch.

He is the one who announced that in September 2021 most of the people vaccinated against Corona would die.

After that didn't happen, he let humanity know in October 2021 that the vaccine was a mixture of cancer cells and spider eggs that aliens were using to wipe out humanity. He sold a dietary supplement that would save vaccinated people from this horrible fate.

Against this background, I must naturally assume that Bezos' and Musk's private space programs serve solely to contact the aliens in order to participate in the extermination of their own customers.

Anyway: you can easily see that the aliens are a life-threatening problem.

Yes. Absolutely crazy.

As I said earlier somewhere, some people find it easier to believe some way-out concocted story than the simple truth.

Hey, extreme fossil fuel usage and production is destroying our atmosphere! No, that's too simple and logical. But as Cascoly mentioned above, rewrite the text books because your oil-industry-funded politician doesn't want you to know the truth. And, yeah, that's ok.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 21, 2022, 02:53
Yes. Absolutely crazy.

As I said earlier somewhere, some people find it easier to believe some way-out concocted story that the simple truth.

Hey, extreme fossil fuel usage and production is destroying our atmosphere! No, that's too simple and logical. But as Cascoly mentioned above, rewrite the text books because your oil-industry-funded politician doesn't want you to know the truth. And, yeah, that's ok.

I want to bet on them jumping straight over reality without even touching it. Straight from “it’s all made up fuss about nothing” to “it’s the rapture and we should welcome the end of the world and coming of the lord”. What odds do I get?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 21, 2022, 03:09
Yes. Absolutely crazy.

As I said earlier somewhere, some people find it easier to believe some way-out concocted story than the simple truth.

Hey, extreme fossil fuel usage and production is destroying our atmosphere! No, that's too simple and logical. But as Cascoly mentioned above, rewrite the text books because your oil-industry-funded politician doesn't want you to know the truth. And, yeah, that's ok.

I want to bet on them jumping straight over reality without even touching it. Straight from “it’s all made up fuss about nothing” to “it’s the rapture and we should welcome the end of the world and coming of the lord”. What odds do I get?

lol. Pretty low.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 21, 2022, 03:10
Here is the truth.
You can cut the production of coal, oil and gas. Easy to do. Just pass some laws.
Then when power goes out because climate change does not react overnight, when jobs are
cut, when the voters go crazy and throw out the politicians things turn around over night.
The production of fossil fuels resumes, more tons of CO2 are tossed into the atmosphere
and we are back to square one.
Obviously that's not the answer.
Technology is the answer. Until nuclear fusion is made workable, until the CO2 is taken out
of the air with new technology things are only going to get worse.
It does no good for California to go green crazy when China, Russia and OPEC laugh and produce
even more hydrocarbon fuels.
Technology is the answer.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11031771/Scientists-developing-train-car-remove-3-000-tonnes-CO2-air-year.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11031771/Scientists-developing-train-car-remove-3-000-tonnes-CO2-air-year.html)
This is one solution. If it can be scaled down to where every car has one of these, then you will see progress.
Cutting the production of hydrocarbons is like slicing your own throat.
Civilization needs power. There is no way around that.
Another painful way is to legislate every new building must have solar panels.
Every house, factory, store, and hotel must have solar panels.
Here is another solution.
https://www.solarwindow.com/ (https://www.solarwindow.com/)
Cutting energy production will get you tossed out off office faster than you can turn the lights out.
The hard truth is it will take 30 years to turn this thing around but progress is being made. Slowly.
Germany is the classic example of being energy stupid. They went green crazy, sucked up to Ivan for
cheap natural gas, did away with their nuclear power plants and installed millions and millions of solar panels
all over the country. Now they are having to dig more coal to produce more power.
Yup, they dug their own hole they are now desperate to get out of.
We did not get into this climate change problem overnight and we are not going to get out of it overnight.
Nuclear power plants, solar power, forest management, smart farming can all help but the hard truth nobody
want to talk about is there are too damned many people on this planet and more are being created every day.
So maybe we need a nice nuclear war. Create nuclear winter, cut the population. Yeah, some people advocate that
crazy crap. I don't.
Every time you pop open a carbonated soft drink you are putting CO2 into the air. Your demand for those soft drinks
creates factories that pour out more CO2 into the atmosphere. It's not just power plants that pollute.
People are the worst problem.

Joe,

in Germany (as well as in the USA) wind energy has a share in energy production twice as high as solar energy.
And energy-stupid Germany has managed to cover 45% of its total energy demand from renewable energy sources in 2020.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons why per capita CO2 emissions in energy-stupid Germany are only about half of those in the United States - for example.

Unlike other countries, Germany has hardly any oil or natural gas. The largest supply of fossil energy in Germany is lignite. And for years, Germany was number one in the world in terms of lignite production. However, since the energy production with lignite emits 3 times more CO2 than the average of all other energy sources, and due to the nuclear accident in Fukushima, the energy transition was pushed forward. Not least to become as independent as possible from imports of fossil fuels. Unfortunately, this has been far too slow to achieve independence. And unfortunately, as you yourself have written, we are still waiting in vain for a breakthrough in nuclear fusion and other new technological advances.


Here ist the truth:
Perhaps the greatest stupidity of mankind - to give an allegorical example - is that it still thinks it can drive a V12 pickup truck with over 700 hp, weighing 2.5 tons and consuming over 20 liters per 100 km, to the bakery 500 meters away to get bread rolls.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 21, 2022, 03:59
in Germany (as well as in the USA) wind energy has a share in energy production twice as high as solar energy.
And energy-stupid Germany has managed to cover 45% of its total energy demand from renewable energy sources in 2020.

That is incorrect. Renewable energy sources cover 45% of the electric power generation, not the total energy demand. The latter is covered by about 20% with renewable energy. It should also be noted that the expansion of renewable energy production has been slowed down during the last years, for a number of reasons. So we still have a very long way to go and it won't be easy and it will take long time.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why per capita CO2 emissions in energy-stupid Germany are only about half of those in the United States - for example.

And then again, France has only a little more than half the per capita CO2 emission than Germany (5 vs. 9.1 t). One of the reasons being their strong reliance on nuclear power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

Looking back, there can be little doubt that it was a mistake that Germany shut down the nuclear power generation so quickly.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 21, 2022, 04:14
Looking back, there can be little doubt that it was a mistake that Germany shut down the nuclear power generation so quickly.

100% agree. Nuclear has to be part of the solution in the short/ medium term.

But Germany also has a much larger manufacturing sector than France so this is also part of the explanation. All of Western Europe is guilty of bragging about low emissions while outsourcing most of their manufacturing to China or other countries. It is VERY disingenuous and misleading. I am glad the younger generation seems to be able to see through this better than us old folks.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: UPLOAD-UPLOAD-UPLOAD on July 21, 2022, 04:48
Joe,

And unfortunately, as you yourself have written, we are still waiting in vain for a breakthrough in nuclear fusion and other new technological advances.


Here ist the truth:
Perhaps the greatest stupidity of mankind - to give an allegorical example - is that it still thinks it can drive a V12 pickup truck with over 700 hp, weighing 2.5 tons and consuming over 20 liters per 100 km, to the bakery 500 meters away to get bread rolls.

Hahahahaha! I like that pickup truck. Have not seen one like this but it sounds like fun.
Germany has a massive problem producing electricity. That is why they are powering up coal powered plants.
The other problem is fuel. Fuel for cars and trucks is not that much of the equation. Fuel use for cargo ships is enormous.
About 60,000 gallons of marine fuel per day! Add in the airplanes and the military use and pretty soon you are talking big numbers.
Yeah, a lot of people all over the world are stupid crazy in their use of automobiles and trucks. But that is a tiny number compared to the industrial uses.
I myself right now drive a GMC Terrain. I get about 20 mpg give or take. I'm waiting for my new Ford Transit Connect cargo van so I can travel more and camp out. Because it's 10 years newer than my Terrain it does get slightly better mileage. About 24 mpg in city.
I have waited on that van for 6 months now and have only 6 more months to go. World wide chip shortage they tell me.
The blame game won't solve anything. Wishing won't solve anything. The truth is we are about 30 years from converting from current
energy production into carbon free energy production. There is nothing politicians, activists or loony tunes can do to speed this up.
Most of the goodies like converting CO2 into gasoline or other fuels is decades away. Most methods in the lab don't make it into reality because of cost or whatever. Those that do are decades from lab to mass production.
America is doing a super job in the green energy field. We have different states like California and Texas who have a totally different approach to name just a few. Once something becomes profitable to do you can bet the evil energy companies will jump on it.
For now the entire planet is on a fossil fuel diet because fossil fuels are cheap.
Me? I'm not going to worry about it. I'm 77 years old, so I'm not buying solar panels for my house. I will never get the money back.
I have 4 air conditioners in my home. Sometimes I use all four on full turbo blast. This week temperatures have been in triple digits every day. BUT the electricity I use comes from a nuclear power plant with natural gas plants to kick in when electric use spikes.
Coal fired plants in America are being converted to natural gas. It's a slow process. People seem to think a politician can just snap his or her fingers and cure the problem. Good luck with that.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 21, 2022, 05:54

America is doing a super job in the green energy field. We have different states like California and Texas who have a totally different approach to name just a few. Once something becomes profitable to do you can bet the evil energy companies will jump on it.
For now the entire planet is on a fossil fuel diet because fossil fuels are cheap.
Me? I'm not going to worry about it. I'm 77 years old, so I'm not buying solar panels for my house. I will never get the money back.
I have 4 air conditioners in my home. Sometimes I use all four on full turbo blast. This week temperatures have been in triple digits every day. BUT the electricity I use comes from a nuclear power plant with natural gas plants to kick in when electric use spikes.
Coal fired plants in America are being converted to natural gas. It's a slow process. People seem to think a politician can just snap his or her fingers and cure the problem. Good luck with that.

You make it sound like the USA is right on track for environmental issues, Joe, but I doubt whether this is true. A lot of damage was done by your former administration in particular.

The Trump administration rolled back 98 environmental rules and regulations, pulled out of the Paris Accord (the only nation that was not part of that agreement), supported gas and oil drilling in national forests and near national monuments and parks, signed executive orders to approve two controversial oil pipelines, announced plans to allow drilling in nearly all U.S. waters, the largest expansion of offshore oil and gas leasing ever proposed, he avoided environmental discussions at both the 44th G7 summit held in Canada and the 45th G7 summit, repealed the Clean Water Rule and rewrote the EPA's pollution-control policies—including policies on chemicals known to be serious health risks, and in 2019, the Administration completed plans for opening the entire coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.

During his 2016 campaign, Trump often described global warming as a "hoax"; and sometimes attributed the "hoax" to the Chinese government as a plot to sabotage American manufacturing, but later claimed that had been a joke.

The Biden administration is reviewing all of these Trump policies for possible reversal, and rejoined the Paris Accord. However, the Supreme Court curbed "the Environmental Protection Agency's ability to broadly regulate carbon emissions from existing power plants, a major defeat for the Biden administration's attempts to slash emissions at a moment when scientists are sounding alarms about the accelerating pace of global warming". (June 30, 22)

There's still of work to be done, especially if your Congress is taken over by Republican majority in your November elections this year.


On a side note. We put in a full solar panel system with additional battery storage, in our home about 3 years ago, and its paid for itself. But of course, it depends on what the system costs, what government subsidies you get, if any, and what the cost of electricity is for you.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 21, 2022, 07:46
"That is incorrect. Renewable energy sources cover 45% of the electric power generation, not the total energy demand. The latter is covered by about 20% with renewable energy. It should also be noted that the expansion of renewable energy production has been slowed down during the last years, for a number of reasons. So we still have a very long way to go and it won't be easy and it will take long time."

What you write is correct. For electricity generation, the share in 2020 was 45.2%, in 2021 it was 41.1%, for heat generation 16.5%, and for transportation 6.8%.

"And then again, France has only a little more than half the per capita CO2 emission than Germany (5 vs. 9.1 t). One of the reasons being their strong reliance on nuclear power."

Correct.

"Looking back, there can be little doubt that it was a mistake that Germany shut down the nuclear power generation so quickly."

As things stand now, that's probably the case. After Fukushima, people thought differently.
The question of the CO2 balance of nuclear power will be better judged by the countless generations after us than by us when it comes to storing, relocating, shielding, etc. nuclear waste for eternity.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 21, 2022, 08:12
"But Germany also has a much larger manufacturing sector than France so this is also part of the explanation."

Yes, I think so, too.

"All of Western Europe is guilty of bragging about low emissions while outsourcing most of their manufacturing to China or other countries. It is VERY disingenuous and misleading. I am glad the younger generation seems to be able to see through this better than us old folks."

It is correct that Germany imports 40% more from China than it exports there. In this respect, you are right - of course, this is good for our own CO2 balance, because the dirt is produced elsewhere.

However, the CO2 balance of the USA would then worsen dramatically in comparison, because the USA imports more than three times as much from China compared to what it exports there.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 21, 2022, 08:16
Joe,

And unfortunately, as you yourself have written, we are still waiting in vain for a breakthrough in nuclear fusion and other new technological advances.


Here ist the truth:
Perhaps the greatest stupidity of mankind - to give an allegorical example - is that it still thinks it can drive a V12 pickup truck with over 700 hp, weighing 2.5 tons and consuming over 20 liters per 100 km, to the bakery 500 meters away to get bread rolls.

Hahahahaha! I like that pickup truck. Have not seen one like this but it sounds like fun.
Germany has a massive problem producing electricity. That is why they are powering up coal powered plants.
The other problem is fuel. Fuel for cars and trucks is not that much of the equation. Fuel use for cargo ships is enormous.
About 60,000 gallons of marine fuel per day! Add in the airplanes and the military use and pretty soon you are talking big numbers.
Yeah, a lot of people all over the world are stupid crazy in their use of automobiles and trucks. But that is a tiny number compared to the industrial uses.
I myself right now drive a GMC Terrain. I get about 20 mpg give or take. I'm waiting for my new Ford Transit Connect cargo van so I can travel more and camp out. Because it's 10 years newer than my Terrain it does get slightly better mileage. About 24 mpg in city.
I have waited on that van for 6 months now and have only 6 more months to go. World wide chip shortage they tell me.
The blame game won't solve anything. Wishing won't solve anything. The truth is we are about 30 years from converting from current
energy production into carbon free energy production. There is nothing politicians, activists or loony tunes can do to speed this up.
Most of the goodies like converting CO2 into gasoline or other fuels is decades away. Most methods in the lab don't make it into reality because of cost or whatever. Those that do are decades from lab to mass production.
America is doing a super job in the green energy field. We have different states like California and Texas who have a totally different approach to name just a few. Once something becomes profitable to do you can bet the evil energy companies will jump on it.
For now the entire planet is on a fossil fuel diet because fossil fuels are cheap.
Me? I'm not going to worry about it. I'm 77 years old, so I'm not buying solar panels for my house. I will never get the money back.
I have 4 air conditioners in my home. Sometimes I use all four on full turbo blast. This week temperatures have been in triple digits every day. BUT the electricity I use comes from a nuclear power plant with natural gas plants to kick in when electric use spikes.
Coal fired plants in America are being converted to natural gas. It's a slow process. People seem to think a politician can just snap his or her fingers and cure the problem. Good luck with that.

Sorry, you are right, it's a V8 pickup - but power, weight and consumption data ist correct.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 21, 2022, 08:19
All this discussion is OK, but there are other matters of much higher importance going on these days.
The global warming debate should not divert our attention from the abomination that is the invasion of Ukraine, for example, or from other reasons causing unnecessary deaths TODAY.
These urgent matters should be on the front page today, not problems that may happen 30 years from now.

This is a problem indeed, but a luxury problem.

Let's get our priorities straight.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 21, 2022, 08:27
Of course, all this also affects me, because I wear clothes from China or Bangladesh, use Apple products from China, drink red wine from Australia, Chile or Spain, eat bananas from the Canary Islands and drive a car from Sweden...

Then there's the Internet usage. All the data traffic, streaming videos, etc. now consume more energy than global air traffic. And the trend is rising, if 4K and 8K formats eventually replace everything else.

I have to question my behavior and improve it.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 21, 2022, 11:53
All this discussion is OK, but there are other matters of much higher importance going on these days.
The global warming debate should not divert our attention from the abomination that is the invasion of Ukraine, for example, or from other reasons causing unnecessary deaths TODAY.
These urgent matters should be on the front page today, not problems that may happen 30 years from now.

This is a problem indeed, but a luxury problem.

Let's get our priorities straight.

The war in the Ukraine may be more urgent now, but that does not mean that we can afford to ignore the climate change:

1. It is already happening. The average temperatures have already increased significantly.

2. We cannot decarbonize our economies in a few years. If we want to have near zero CO2 emissions in 30 years, we have to start in earnest now. And even then it will not be easy to manage it in this time frame.

3. There will always be some other crisis that seems more urgent at the moment. Now it is the war in the Ukraine, before it was Corona and next it may be about Taiwan or some other thing. We have to be able to handle the current crisies and still  proceed with the energy transition.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cathyslife on July 21, 2022, 12:16
LOL. Like man has any power over changing the climate.

You could benefit from following up with some science. You know, the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment which scientists have devoted their lifes to in order to accumulate knowledge that makes them come to the conclusion that, yes, man has power over changing the climate. It's embarassing how many people think they have more knowledge over things others have studied for decades or how they think something like a quick youtube video can give them better education that decades of scientific study.

Thank you for the scolding, mother. I actually do read stuff from world climate scientists. Did you even watch the video, outlining how climate has changed over the centuries? Probably not.

I want to hear YOUR plan for how climate can be changed. There is lots we can do to clean up earth, but it still won’t change the climate.

I will continue to post my opinions here, just like everyone else. You think I’m an idiot? Bummer. Not going anywhere. Maybe you should not be one of the mean girls. Most of the time, I agree with what you say.

I am just like you. I read. I form an opinion. I do not think I know more than any climate scientist. I posted my OPINION. You do know the difference between expert facts and my opinion, right? Are YOU a climate expert? What makes your OPINION any more valid than mine? You guys crack me up.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 21, 2022, 12:36
All this discussion is OK, but there are other matters of much higher importance going on these days.
The global warming debate should not divert our attention from the abomination that is the invasion of Ukraine, for example, or from other reasons causing unnecessary deaths TODAY.
These urgent matters should be on the front page today, not problems that may happen 30 years from now.

This is a problem indeed, but a luxury problem.

Let's get our priorities straight.

The war in the Ukraine may be more urgent now, but that does not mean that we can afford to ignore the climate change:

1. It is already happening. The average temperatures have already increased significantly.

2. We cannot decarbonize our economies in a few years. If we want to have near zero CO2 emissions in 30 years, we have to start in earnest now. And even then it will not be easy to manage it in this time frame.

3. There will always be some other crisis that seems more urgent at the moment. Now it is the war in the Ukraine, before it was Corona and next it may be about Taiwan or some other thing. We have to be able to handle the current crisies and still  proceed with the energy transition.

Let me be clear: global warming is real! I'm not saying that it should be ignored.

I'm saying that it shouldn't be on the front page or the main priority on our politician's agenda.

Urgent matters like the ones you described should always require our immediate attention and the prioritization of our scarce resources.

Innocent people being unnecessarily killed TODAY because of the madness of a paranoid dictator, by some deadly virus, by starvation, etc, should always be our main priority, ahead of threats that may (or may not) reach similar levels of destruction many, many years from now.

As I said, it's a rich-man problem. Luxury may come only after fulfilling basic necessities.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 21, 2022, 13:27
All this discussion is OK, but there are other matters of much higher importance going on these days.
The global warming debate should not divert our attention from the abomination that is the invasion of Ukraine, for example, or from other reasons causing unnecessary deaths TODAY.
These urgent matters should be on the front page today, not problems that may happen 30 years from now.

This is a problem indeed, but a luxury problem.

Let's get our priorities straight.

What happened? Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed or something?

Anyway, the urgent part is that there is a critical USA midterm election coming up in less than 4 months time.

What happened to your Ukrainian war threads?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 21, 2022, 13:34
It’s just the latest thing we’re supposed to be afraid of. The sky is falling! The fix for climate change ... higher taxes! LOL. Like man has any power over changing the climate.
 

No, no human being can change anything. If these stupid aliens would finally stop tilting the earth's axis and irradiating the polar caps, the permafrost soils and the Amazon rain forests with their high-power lasers.
But as long as we cannot convert these aliens, we humans should in any case continue as before.

no, there's another conspiracy at play:
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/marjorie-taylor-greene-accuses-jewish-space-lasers-of-trying-to-shoot-down-santa (https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/marjorie-taylor-greene-accuses-jewish-space-lasers-of-trying-to-shoot-down-santa)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 21, 2022, 13:50
...

Against this background, I must naturally assume that Bezos' and Musk's private space programs serve solely to contact the aliens in order to participate in the extermination of their own customers.

Anyway: you can easily see that the aliens are a life-threatening problem.
one of the best scifi novels i've read in recent years is Cixin Liu's 3 body problem, which tackles that problem

https://grrm.livejournal.com/426205.html (https://grrm.livejournal.com/426205.html)
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/netflix-3-body-cast-1235169990/ (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/netflix-3-body-cast-1235169990/)

also apropos climate extremes, from one of my favorite authors -
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50998056-the-ministry-for-the-future (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50998056-the-ministry-for-the-future)

 In the aftermath of a horrific heat wave that kills 20 million people in India – Robinson describes thousands being “poached” in a lake where they fled to escape the heat

Robinson has a geeky, exuberant imagination and likes to pick up pieces of the world and examine them like a geologist examines rocks. In the novel’s 106 chapters, he riffs on blockchain technology, Jevon’s Paradox, carbon taxes, ice sheet dynamics, quantitative easing, among other things. He pays a lot of attention to how money moves around in a carbon-based economy, and may understand the financial underpinnings of the climate crisis better than any writer I’ve encountered. But he’s not afraid to get weird: He writes short chapters from the point of view of a carbon molecule, a photon, and a caribou.   https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/the-ministry-for-the-future-interview-kim-stanley-robinson-1101738/ (https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/the-ministry-for-the-future-interview-kim-stanley-robinson-1101738/)

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 21, 2022, 13:57
...
The war in the Ukraine may be more urgent now, but that does not mean that we can afford to ignore the climate change:

1. It is already happening. The average temperatures have already increased significantly.

2. We cannot decarbonize our economies in a few years. If we want to have near zero CO2 emissions in 30 years, we have to start in earnest now. And even then it will not be easy to manage it in this time frame.

3. There will always be some other crisis that seems more urgent at the moment. Now it is the war in the Ukraine, before it was Corona and next it may be about Taiwan or some other thing. We have to be able to handle the current crisies and still  proceed with the energy transition.

and for yet another priority:
https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/ (https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/)

Holden Karnofsky has a solid history of thought-provoking blogs & actual action as co-CEO of Open Philanthropy and co-founder of GiveWell

https://www.cold-takes.com/about/ (https://www.cold-takes.com/about/)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 21, 2022, 13:57
All this discussion is OK, but there are other matters of much higher importance going on these days.
The global warming debate should not divert our attention from the abomination that is the invasion of Ukraine, for example, or from other reasons causing unnecessary deaths TODAY.
These urgent matters should be on the front page today, not problems that may happen 30 years from now.

This is a problem indeed, but a luxury problem.

Let's get our priorities straight.

What happened? Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed or something?

Anyway, the urgent part is that there is a critical USA midterm election coming up in less than 4 months time.

What happened to your Ukrainian war threads?

Lol, I had a perfect sleep last night!  ;D It's not just a thought that popped up in my mind this morning.

What I said above is also what I told to people who knocked on my door to ask me to vote for a representative, who had global warming on top of her agenda. I told them to move it to #10 or so, and to deal with urgent matters first, matters that are impacting people's life TODAY. Or else she might lose her election, allowing some Trumpet to take her spot in congress.

We can't afford to play God and trade the life of people who are dying today, against the life of people who may or may not die sometime in the distant future.

PS. Those Ukraine threads were not mine. I only replied to a couple of them, meanwhile deleted by the admin, for some unknown reason.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 21, 2022, 15:13

Lol, I had a perfect sleep last night!  ;D It's not just a thought that popped up in my mind this morning.

What I said above is also what I told to people who knocked on my door to ask me to vote for a representative, who had global warming on top of her agenda. I told them to move it to #10 or so, and to deal with urgent matters first, matters that are impacting people's life TODAY. Or else she might lose her election, allowing some Trumpet to take her spot in congress.

We can't afford to play God and trade the life of people who are dying today, against the life of people who may or may not die sometime in the distant future.

PS. Those Ukraine threads were not mine. I only replied to a couple of them, meanwhile deleted by the admin, for some unknown reason.

There is a correlation between the two topics of course. I have been meaning to bring up Russia. With certain European countries still relying on Russian oil, that is empowering Putin.

There may not be an overnight solution, but I can't help but think that continually pushing this issue back to #10 priority is what has got us here in the first place. I understand that many Americans have other issues furthermost in their minds right now, but raising the issue, rather than burying it, may help to increase understanding and knowledge.

Right now there are deaths, destruction, and heat devastations happening around the world, maybe not so much in USA as in Europe at the moment, and even drastically affecting our very own contributor, Pacesetter, right here.

I'll go back to why I started this discussion in the first place. There is not much more to say:

Quote
"Extreme heat in 21 European countries and USA danger zones with 100 million plus population, threaten food supply, travel and even lives.

Multiple heatwaves across the globe. London officials saying they have never seen heatwaves on this scale before. In Spain, France, and Italy, wildfires are spreading rapidly. In major cities, travel is disrupted, trains & flights are cancelled due to the heat and causing a global ripple effect.  Hundreds have died in Portugal. Over a 1,000 deaths in Europe. Scientists have been warning about global warming for decades, and now say that heat devastation is here and is a crisis." (Source: CNN)

"Heat alerts across 20 USA states. Fire west of Forth Worth burning more than 500 acres. Chalk Mountain fire burning 1,000 acres. Fires straining power grids in Texas. Boston declares heat emergency today. Sweltering summer that has shattered heat records across the USA. Climate prediction center forecasts dangerous conditions will prevail over the next few weeks for much of 48 states.

Today was the hottest day ever recorded in most of Europe. Record temperatures recorded in France, Ireland and Germany. Record breaking heatwave in UK.  London has for the first time ever issued a red warning for extreme heat.  Airport runways are melting. The sun is buckling train tracks. Surge of huge fires across UK's capitol. The British government has estimated that these extreme temperatures have been made 10 times more likely by human impact.

There were so many emergencies in London today that the Fire Brigade has run out of all their fire engines."**

This was the news that I woke up to this morning.

**CNNs words not mine.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 21, 2022, 16:23
I actually do read stuff from world climate scientists.

Is that so?

I want to hear YOUR plan for how climate can be changed. There is lots we can do to clean up earth, but it still won’t change the climate.

Except that it will. The release of greenhouse gases (mainly CO2, but also some other gases like methane) increase the temperature of a planet. Therefore, reductions in the release of greenhouse gases reduce this increase. There are also some gases that can reduce the temperature, like sulphur dioxide, although the side effects of that gas make it unfeasible to use it to control the climate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

Have your world climate scientists never mentioned greenhouse gases?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 21, 2022, 16:40
All this discussion is OK, but there are other matters of much higher importance going on these days.
The global warming debate should not divert our attention from the abomination that is the invasion of Ukraine, for example, or from other reasons causing unnecessary deaths TODAY.
These urgent matters should be on the front page today, not problems that may happen 30 years from now.

This is a problem indeed, but a luxury problem.

Let's get our priorities straight.

The most common reason for wars is disputes over access to important resources. If the climate issue continues to develop in this way, water will be the raw material that causes more wars than oil, gas and coal combined. And that won't just become a problem in 30 years.

The second most common reason is power. I fear that soon, near Ukraine, the Syrian conflict will be reignited. When you fear losing power (i.e. an election), you shift your domestic problems to the outside. The fire in Syria could be doused with gasoline once again by Erdogan in a very short time. He must show strength and divert attention from inflation and his country's economic problems. And he doesn't want to be talked into it by Putin and Raisi (Khamenei). Just as little, as China in relation to Taiwan. Or Hong Kong.

The first issue, Zero Talent, seems far away and the second so close. But we must not deceive ourselves there, because the first theme only seems more fictional and therefore not so important. But this is a fallacy.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 21, 2022, 17:54
All this discussion is OK, but there are other matters of much higher importance going on these days.
The global warming debate should not divert our attention from the abomination that is the invasion of Ukraine, for example, or from other reasons causing unnecessary deaths TODAY.
These urgent matters should be on the front page today, not problems that may happen 30 years from now.

This is a problem indeed, but a luxury problem.

Let's get our priorities straight.

The most common reason for wars is disputes over access to important resources. If the climate issue continues to develop in this way, water will be the raw material that causes more wars than oil, gas and coal combined. And that won't just become a problem in 30 years.

The second most common reason is power. I fear that soon, near Ukraine, the Syrian conflict will be reignited. When you fear losing power (i.e. an election), you shift your domestic problems to the outside. The fire in Syria could be doused with gasoline once again by Erdogan in a very short time. He must show strength and divert attention from inflation and his country's economic problems. And he doesn't want to be talked into it by Putin and Raisi (Khamenei). Just as little, as China in relation to Taiwan. Or Hong Kong.

The first issue, Zero Talent, seems far away and the second so close. But we must not deceive ourselves there, because the first theme only seems more fictional and therefore not so important. But this is a fallacy.

No, I never said the problem is fictional. Global warming is real.
I'm only saying that it has a lower priority than many other urgent matters, TODAY.

People unnecessarily dying TODAY is an undeniable reality, people dying in the distant future is a probability.

Certainty beats probability.

If politicians will continue to neglect clear and present dangers, happening under their eyes, in favor of future problems that may or may not happen as we think today, they will only lose elections against global warming deniers, and we will end up being ruled by stupid people.

And that's the reality many idealists fail to acknowledge.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 22, 2022, 02:00

No, I never said the problem is fictional. Global warming is real.
I'm only saying that it has a lower priority than many other urgent matters, TODAY.

People unnecessarily dying TODAY is an undeniable reality, people dying in the distant future is a probability.

Certainty beats probability.

If politicians will continue to neglect clear and present dangers, happening under their eyes, in favor of future problems that may or may not happen as we think today, they will only lose elections against global warming deniers, and we will end up being ruled by stupid people.

And that's the reality many idealists fail to acknowledge.

Climate change linked to to 5 million deaths in 2021 alone...

EDIT: I am not prepared to go to bat over this exact figure as I have only been able to find the headlines and not the original study (which may be behind a paywall). My point is climate change is causing many deaths today. There will always be another “more pressing” event to take the spotlight. More wars will even be happening because of climate change. Fighting over water, need for more liveable or farm-able land as areas become uninhabitable. We need to walk and chew bubble gum on this one.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 22, 2022, 07:56

No, I never said the problem is fictional. Global warming is real.
I'm only saying that it has a lower priority than many other urgent matters, TODAY.

People unnecessarily dying TODAY is an undeniable reality, people dying in the distant future is a probability.

Certainty beats probability.

If politicians will continue to neglect clear and present dangers, happening under their eyes, in favor of future problems that may or may not happen as we think today, they will only lose elections against global warming deniers, and we will end up being ruled by stupid people.

And that's the reality many idealists fail to acknowledge.

Climate change linked to to 5 million deaths in 2021 alone...

EDIT: I am not prepared to go to bat over this exact figure as I have only been able to find the headlines and not the original study (which may be behind a paywall). My point is climate change is causing many deaths today. There will always be another “more pressing” event to take the spotlight. More wars will even be happening because of climate change. Fighting over water, need for more liveable or farm-able land as areas become uninhabitable. We need to walk and chew bubble gum on this one.

You are not ready to back up that number, but you are still throwing it in the discussion. Not a good practice.

Anyway, here is what the WHO is saying:

The World Health Organization (WHO) reports that climate change is responsible for at least 150,000 deaths per year, a number that is expected to double by 2030


That's an order of magnitude less than your number.

In the US, there are claims of between 600 to 1300 deaths/year "linked to climate change". While these deaths are unfortunate, their relatively low number, can't justify climate change as a top priority.

You are proving my point. This type of exaggeration is impacting the credibility of those who make the climate change argument.
In fact, there are studies showing that due to technological progress, fewer people are dying from natural disasters today compared with a century ago.

Politicians who make such exaggerated claims are chasing their voters away, making room for climate change deniers.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 22, 2022, 08:02
Well it's the first study of it's kind and seems legitimate. I am not just throwing out headlines,
 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/climate-change-linked-to-5-million-deaths-a-year-new-study-shows#xj4y7vzkg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-07-07/climate-change-linked-to-5-million-deaths-a-year-new-study-shows#xj4y7vzkg)

I'm just more cautious than most about these things and haven't had the time to review the paper. People more qualified then me have been reporting it as you can see.

Sorry trying to link on my phone while not at my best. I will fix tomorrow. You can google 5m deaths climate change and find it easily enough.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 22, 2022, 14:14
I finally found some backup to the news report I mentioned above. Its on Jake Tapper's podcast, if anyone is interested in listening to it.

https://edition.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/the-lead-with-jake-tapper/episodes/f54d0298-9268-41dc-b986-aed7017ec5f4
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 23, 2022, 19:59
....

In the US, there are claims of between 600 to 1300 deaths/year "linked to climate change". While these deaths are unfortunate, their relatively low number, can't justify climate change as a top priority.

You are proving my point. This type of exaggeration is impacting the credibility of those who make the climate change argument.
In fact, there are studies showing that due to technological progress, fewer people are dying from natural disasters today compared with a century ago.


deaths aren't the main argument for dealing w climate change - the reason to deal w it NOW is that we continue to make the situation worse and future decades will bring much more serious effects

just one excample - the arctic icecap used to reflect a large portion of the sun's radiation (aka heat) now the arctic becomes open earlier each year, leading to more heating, leading to earlier disappearance.

droughts will worsen, coasts will be inundated, crops will fail- but one of the major reasons for lack of political response (not counting those who dont even admit it's happening) is that those are long term problems, but neither corporate concentration on short term profits, nor politicians who focus only on the next election lead to any effective response today
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 23, 2022, 22:44
....

In the US, there are claims of between 600 to 1300 deaths/year "linked to climate change". While these deaths are unfortunate, their relatively low number, can't justify climate change as a top priority.

You are proving my point. This type of exaggeration is impacting the credibility of those who make the climate change argument.
In fact, there are studies showing that due to technological progress, fewer people are dying from natural disasters today compared with a century ago.


deaths aren't the main argument for dealing w climate change - the reason to deal w it NOW is that we continue to make the situation worse and future decades will bring much more serious effects

just one excample - the arctic icecap used to reflect a large portion of the sun's radiation (aka heat) now the arctic becomes open earlier each year, leading to more heating, leading to earlier disappearance.

droughts will worsen, coasts will be inundated, crops will fail- but one of the major reasons for lack of political response (not counting those who dont even admit it's happening) is that those are long term problems, but neither corporate concentration on short term profits, nor politicians who focus only on the next election lead to any effective response today

With all due respect, you don't have to explain the effects of climate change.

The point I'm making is that if you will continue to pressure your politicians to put climate change on top of their agenda (when their constituents suffer from immediate and urgent unsolved matters) you will only make them lose their elections in front of climate change deniers.

Thus, you will achieve nothing.

Adopting a realistic, pragmatic approach to climate change, instead of this all-in, extremist, far-left, uncompromising attitude, will be far more efficient.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 24, 2022, 04:24
https://www.monash.edu/medicine/news/latest/2021-articles/worlds-largest-study-of-global-climate-related-mortality-links-5-million-deaths-a-year-to-abnormal-temperatures (https://www.monash.edu/medicine/news/latest/2021-articles/worlds-largest-study-of-global-climate-related-mortality-links-5-million-deaths-a-year-to-abnormal-temperatures)

Doesn't take account of indirect deaths where climate change is a contributing factor, for example the Syrian civil war. Not sure why this is a left vs right issue? Shouldn’t the right be conservative (small c) and want to save the environment?

Very interesting new article on climate misinformation:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62225696 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62225696)

"What the geniuses of the PR firms who work for these big fossil fuel companies know is that truth has nothing to do with who wins the argument. If you say something enough times, people will begin to believe it."
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 24, 2022, 06:24
It's a left wing issue because the planet is the supreme "community".
Putting the interests of the community above the interests of the  individuals has always been the core of the (neo)marxist policies.

PS. I saw that report. I will rather trust the data reported by the WHO, against a study published by a random professor from some random university.
I am skeptical of a study that's suddenly claiming a number 33 times bigger than the common wisdom.

Be careful. PR money floats from multiple directions.  ;)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 24, 2022, 07:23
To paraphrase Thatcher, there is no community. It is in the interests of billions of individuals to make climate change a high priority.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 24, 2022, 07:44
To paraphrase Thatcher, there is no community. It is in the interests of billions of individuals to make climate change a high priority.

Indeed! But she clearly didn't mean it as you put it.  ;)

It's not ok to sacrifice individuals in the name of the "community".
The prosperity of a community comes from the prosperity of individuals, not the other way around.
That's what Thatcher meant.

As I said before, there are many other urgent issues, impacting individuals and smaller communities, more than global warming. These issues must be pragmatically addressed first, or else global warming deniers will win the narrative.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on July 24, 2022, 11:46
If there is one thing I can't stand hearing anymore, then it's the constant denying or downplaying of severe issues with the claim that these issues were not really bad and someone was making them appear more serious just so he could earn money with them. It's the same with the corona virus issue. "The parma industry just wants to make money!".   ::)
Oh my gosh. People actually want to make money and not work for free! What a shock! Are there people profiting financially from crises? Yes, of course! But it's not the pharma industry or the solar energy industry or whatever that is warning us about climate change or pandemics. It's scientist. And not just individual ones who, of course, get paid by various industries as well, but it's scientific consensus all over the world! One has to be nuts and nose deep in conspiracy theories to assume that prrofiting industries managed to manipulatre scientist all over the world to come to the same conclusions.
Also, why is it held agains one industry to want to make money, but not the other? Take Germany. One of the reasons we still haven't ditched coal mining is the constant whining about all the jobs that will be lost. So what's the plan? We keep supporting a not sustainable production of energy, so people don't lose jobs, creating new jobs in that industry all the time so we have a neverending cycle till we run out of coal and these people lose their jobs anyways? Why not instead focus on creating jobs with another energy? Solar energy? Wind energy? Geothermal energy? Biomass from plants? Hydropower? But, oh no, it's the evil sustainable energy industry that "just wants to make money" and manipulate us. Because the coal mining industry is a charity and does not want to make money at all.  ::)

Yes, someone profits from changes that would come with measures to fight climate change. But there is always also someone who profits from not taking these measures. Why not point fingers at these people? The ones who do not want the change, do not want to fight climate change, because it would mean they'd make less money? Why is it always the people who want to fight climate change that get blamed for "just wanting to make money", why not the people who want to fight these measures, because, just the same, they "just want to make money?" For example Porsche just successfully influenced german politicans to fight the EU wide stop of production of  fuel based cars. There sole motive to fight this change was the fear of losing profit. But people who want to fight climate change and would profit from it financially are somehow the bad guys? All of this doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 24, 2022, 14:10
If there is one thing I can't stand hearing anymore, then it's the constant denying or downplaying of severe issues with the claim that these issues were not really bad and someone was making them appear more serious just so he could earn money with them. It's the same with the corona virus issue. "The parma industry just wants to make money!".   ::)
Oh my gosh. People actually want to make money and not work for free! What a shock! Are there people profiting financially from crises? Yes, of course! But it's not the pharma industry or the solar energy industry or whatever that is warning us about climate change or pandemics. It's scientist. And not just individual ones who, of course, get paid by various industries as well, but it's scientific consensus all over the world! One has to be nuts and nose deep in conspiracy theories to assume that prrofiting industries managed to manipulatre scientist all over the world to come to the same conclusions.
Also, why is it held agains one industry to want to make money, but not the other? Take Germany. One of the reasons we still haven't ditched coal mining is the constant whining about all the jobs that will be lost. So what's the plan? We keep supporting a not sustainable production of energy, so people don't lose jobs, creating new jobs in that industry all the time so we have a neverending cycle till we run out of coal and these people lose their jobs anyways? Why not instead focus on creating jobs with another energy? Solar energy? Wind energy? Geothermal energy? Biomass from plants? Hydropower? But, oh no, it's the evil sustainable energy industry that "just wants to make money" and manipulate us. Because the coal mining industry is a charity and does not want to make money at all.  ::)

Yes, someone profits from changes that would come with measures to fight climate change. But there is always also someoen who profits from not taking these measures. Why not point fingers at these people? The ones who do not want the change, do not want to fight climate change, because it would mean they'd make less money? Why is it always the people who want to fight climate change that get blamed for "just wanting to make money", why not the people who want to fight these measures, because, just the same, they "just want to make money?" For example Porsche just successfully influenced german politicans to fight the EU wide stop of production of  fuel based cars. There sole motive to fight this change was the fear of losing profit. But people who want to fight climate change and would profit from it financially are somehow the bad guys? All of this doesn't make sense.


Agree!
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 24, 2022, 14:19
Oh no. Even our poor old Monash University has got trashed! lol (its a public research university located in Melbourne Australia, with global rankings and breakthrough research including nerve stem cell research, the world's first IVF pregnancy, and many other areas. Its a pretty big place. Its library has 'over 3 million items, and it produces over 3,000 research publications each year.')

OK Zero, I know you've gone to the mattresses when you start with the old anti-marxist comments, and how much you value free enterprise. Tell us about what you would like done with the Ukranian War. Perhaps you can get that off your chest first?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 24, 2022, 15:29
Here is the result of a recent poll clarifying the American voter's priorities.

Failing to acknowledge the reality, endorsing far-left extremist positions disconnected from these priorities will only alienate voters, opening the path for stupid politicians to gain (or return to) power.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 24, 2022, 15:31
.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 24, 2022, 15:52
Here is the result of a recent poll clarifying the American voter's priorities.

Failing to ackowledge the reality, endorsing far-left extremist positions disconnected from these priorities will only alienate voters, opening the path for stupid politicians to gain (or return to) power.

It is frightening - for a Central European - to see how much weight the topic of guns carries.

It is astonishing that the topic of climate change is at the bottom of the poll results.
I am absolutely sure that this will change very soon.

If the war in Ukraine escalates, or the political consequences of that escalate, perhaps humanity will no longer have to worry about climate change either. So it's true: this is a burning issue. But it is only more burning than the issue of climate change because we are better able to assess the reactions of people than the reactions of nature - of which we simply understand too little. We can't even comprehend the laws of nature with the most powerful computers. We can better put one and one together, what happens if a state leader, who has endless nuclear weapons, makes the wrong decision. We have zero idea what nature holds wide for us for our use of resources. But when in doubt, nature holds answers for us that are in no way inferior to nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 24, 2022, 16:21
...
Adopting a realistic, pragmatic approach to climate change, instead of this all-in, extremist, far-left, uncompromising attitude, will be far more efficient.

unfortunately, even such a plan - so heavily modified it would have only a slight effect has been defeated by Manchin (large holding in coal company & major recipient of fossil fuel donations) combined w mcconnell's declaration that he wont pass anything from biden

the only possible, but fading hope is that dems gain 1-2 senate seats to make manchin insignificant and hold onto the house
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 24, 2022, 16:31
https://www.monash.edu/medicine/news/latest/2021-articles/worlds-largest-study-of-global-climate-related-mortality-links-5-million-deaths-a-year-to-abnormal-temperatures (https://www.monash.edu/medicine/news/latest/2021-articles/worlds-largest-study-of-global-climate-related-mortality-links-5-million-deaths-a-year-to-abnormal-temperatures)

Doesn't take account of indirect deaths where climate change is a contributing factor, for example the Syrian civil war. Not sure why this is a left vs right issue? Shouldn’t the right be conservative (small c) and want to save the environment?
...

the republican party ceased being small c conservative long ago and is now only an extremeist, ideological party that has NO plans to do anything other than repeal the progress of the last decades -  eg, their concern for the fetus stops at birth -- they refuse to even consider actions that would help those they will now force to have unwanted children 
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 24, 2022, 16:34


It is frightening - for a Central European - to see how much weight the topic of guns carries.

It is astonishing that the topic of climate change is at the bottom of the poll results.
I am absolutely sure that this will change very soon.

the gun fetish frightens many of us in the US too!

i wish i could share your optimism about the politics of climate change, but, at best, the political response is "What? me worry?"  it's only going to get a lot worse 
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 24, 2022, 19:59
Here is the result of a recent poll clarifying the American voter's priorities.

Failing to ackowledge the reality, endorsing far-left extremist positions disconnected from these priorities will only alienate voters, opening the path for stupid politicians to gain (or return to) power.

Thanks.

At least now we can discuss what the underlying problems are rather than just debating and attacking each other.

Economy is often the top priority in a lot of countries**, but its really sad though, that if in America, some think its a 'far-left extremist position' when this kind of thing is happening right now.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/california-fires-a-wildfire-is-burning-out-of-control-near-yosemite/b2d283ea-b12b-4af3-a441-aaaf36a1ab16#5 (https://www.9news.com.au/world/california-fires-a-wildfire-is-burning-out-of-control-near-yosemite/b2d283ea-b12b-4af3-a441-aaaf36a1ab16#5)


** Its the old "its the economy, stupid' reference.

("The economy, stupid" is a phrase that was coined by James Carville in 1992. It is often quoted from a televised quip by Carville as "It’s the economy, stupid." Carville was a strategist in Bill Clinton's successful 1992 presidential campaign against incumbent George H. W. Bush. ... Clinton's campaign advantageously used the then-prevailing recession in the United States as one of the campaign's means to successfully unseat George H. W. Bush.) Source wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid)

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 24, 2022, 22:48
Here is the result of a recent poll clarifying the American voter's priorities.

Failing to acknowledge the reality, endorsing far-left extremist positions disconnected from these priorities will only alienate voters, opening the path for stupid politicians to gain (or return to) power.

Thanks.

At least now we can discuss what the underlying problems are rather than just debating and attacking each other.

Economy is often the top priority in a lot of countries**, but its really sad though, that if in America, some think its a 'far-left extremist position' when this kind of thing is happening right now.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/california-fires-a-wildfire-is-burning-out-of-control-near-yosemite/b2d283ea-b12b-4af3-a441-aaaf36a1ab16#5 (https://www.9news.com.au/world/california-fires-a-wildfire-is-burning-out-of-control-near-yosemite/b2d283ea-b12b-4af3-a441-aaaf36a1ab16#5)


** Its the old "its the economy, stupid' reference.

("The economy, stupid" is a phrase that was coined by James Carville in 1992. It is often quoted from a televised quip by Carville as "It’s the economy, stupid." Carville was a strategist in Bill Clinton's successful 1992 presidential campaign against incumbent George H. W. Bush. ... Clinton's campaign advantageously used the then-prevailing recession in the United States as one of the campaign's means to successfully unseat George H. W. Bush.) Source wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid)

Annie, my bad for not being clear enough. I am glad that adding that poll made my position more evident.

I hope that now it's also clear why I'm saying that putting climate change on top of the agenda is an extremist proposition.

Otherwise, yes, there are wildfires in Yosemite. This is nothing new. The first record dates from 1930.

https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/firehistory.htm#:~:text=Since%201970%2C%20the%20National%20Park,in%20the%20park%20each%20year. (https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/firehistory.htm#:~:text=Since%201970%2C%20the%20National%20Park,in%20the%20park%20each%20year.)
So giving one more example doesn't mean much.

Nevertheless, there are many other more compelling arguments proving that climate change is real, the first one I can remember being Al Gore's 2006 documentary, "The Inconvenient Truth".

But the bottom line is that voters seem to care for their daily bread, and 13 other issues, more than for climate change.
Maybe this is sad for you, but it's real.

Therefore, putting issue #14 on top of the agenda is a proposition that will lead to election losses.
That is sad.
Sad will be to see Trump or people like him seizing power, because the alternative is made of idealists or far-left extremists, who are failing to ackowledge the reality, to understand what their voters want.

Sad indeed!
 :-\
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 24, 2022, 23:37
Here is the result of a recent poll clarifying the American voter's priorities.

Failing to ackowledge the reality, endorsing far-left extremist positions disconnected from these priorities will only alienate voters, opening the path for stupid politicians to gain (or return to) power.

Thanks.

At least now we can discuss what the underlying problems are rather than just debating and attacking each other.

Economy is often the top priority in a lot of countries**, but its really sad though, that if in America, some think its a 'far-left extremist position' when this kind of thing is happening right now.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/california-fires-a-wildfire-is-burning-out-of-control-near-yosemite/b2d283ea-b12b-4af3-a441-aaaf36a1ab16#5 (https://www.9news.com.au/world/california-fires-a-wildfire-is-burning-out-of-control-near-yosemite/b2d283ea-b12b-4af3-a441-aaaf36a1ab16#5)


** Its the old "its the economy, stupid' reference.

("The economy, stupid" is a phrase that was coined by James Carville in 1992. It is often quoted from a televised quip by Carville as "It’s the economy, stupid." Carville was a strategist in Bill Clinton's successful 1992 presidential campaign against incumbent George H. W. Bush. ... Clinton's campaign advantageously used the then-prevailing recession in the United States as one of the campaign's means to successfully unseat George H. W. Bush.) Source wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid)

Annie, my bad for not being clear enough. I am glad that adding that poll made my position more evident.

I hope that now it's also clear why I'm saying that putting climate change on top of the agenda is an extremist proposition.

Otherwise, yes, there are wildfires in the Yosemite. This is nothing new. The first record dates from 1930.

https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/firehistory.htm#:~:text=Since%201970%2C%20the%20National%20Park,in%20the%20park%20each%20year. (https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/firehistory.htm#:~:text=Since%201970%2C%20the%20National%20Park,in%20the%20park%20each%20year.)
So giving one more example doesn't mean much.

Nevertheless, there are many other more compeling arguments proving that climate change is real, the first one I can remember being Al Gore's 2006 documentary, "The Inconvenient Truth".

But the bottom line is that voters seem to care for their daily bread, and 13 other issues, more than for climate change.
Maybe this is sad for you, but it's real.

Therefore, putting issue #14 on top of the agenda is a proposition that will lead to election losses.
That is sad.
Sad will be to see Trump or people like him seizing power, because the alternative is made of idealists or far-left extremists, who are failing to ackowledge the reality, to understand what their voters want.

Sad indeed!
 :-\

After the world has burned to a crisp, and you and I are standing at the pearly gates, I'll turn to you and say, "See!". And you will say, "dam, you were right, I should have done more when I had the chance."  ;) ;D

Just joking.


Yes, we agree on some things, but this labelling "far-left", "far-right", "extremists", "idealists", "Maxists"  is what got America to its current position in the first place. "Divided we fall".

You, yourself, quoted something on a thread not so long ago (possibly one of those Ukrainian threads that was taken down), about all the tactics that aggressors use to undermine their opponents, and if I remember clearly, 'labelling' was one of them. Anyway, its an old text book tactic of how to divide people.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on July 26, 2022, 10:28
I actually do read stuff from world climate scientists.

Is that so?

I want to hear YOUR plan for how climate can be changed. There is lots we can do to clean up earth, but it still won’t change the climate.

Except that it will. The release of greenhouse gases (mainly CO2, but also some other gases like methane) increase the temperature of a planet. Therefore, reductions in the release of greenhouse gases reduce this increase. There are also some gases that can reduce the temperature, like sulphur dioxide, although the side effects of that gas make it unfeasible to use it to control the climate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

Have your world climate scientists never mentioned greenhouse gases?

Funny Scientific Fact:

In fact, carbon dioxide, which is blamed for climate warming, has only a volume share of 0.04 percent in the atmosphere. And of these 0.04 percent CO2, 95 percent come from natural sources, such as volcanoes or decomposition processes in nature. The human CO2 content in the air is thus only 0.0016 percent.



Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on July 26, 2022, 10:47





[/quote]


Today was the hottest day ever recorded in most of Europe.


Fun scientific facts:


Hottest temperature recorded in Europe was 48.0 °C in Greece (Athens) on July 10, 1977.

US record: 10 July 1913 , 56.7 °C

So climate changes didn't even manage to break the records from times way before them.

It appears you don't understand the difference between "weather" (localized measurements and occurrences) and "climate" (overall patterns and trends).

Fun scientific fact:

The theory of global warming in its core assumes maximum warming at the poles.

At the same time the average temperatures in the Arctic dropped by 0.88°C over the past 50 years.

So it appears that you don't understand what I understand.  ;D



Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on July 26, 2022, 11:30

Funny Scientific Fact:

In fact, carbon dioxide, which is blamed for climate warming, has only a volume share of 0.04 percent in the atmosphere. And of these 0.04 percent CO2, 95 percent come from natural sources, such as volcanoes or decomposition processes in nature. The human CO2 content in the air is thus only 0.0016 percent.

That's not a "scientific fact", or at least it's just a twisted part of it without looking at the whole picture.
It's true that natural resources cause high amounts of carbon, but, unlike human caused carbon it does not add any net CO2 to the atmosphere. It's a cycle where carbon is added and taken again from the atmosphere.
Any biomass which decomposes must first have grown  the CO2 released during rotting. It was first taken from the atmosphere by photosynthesis and then later added again.
It's all explained better than I could here:
https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/01/the-global-co2-rise-the-facts-exxon-and-the-favorite-denial-tricks/ (https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/01/the-global-co2-rise-the-facts-exxon-and-the-favorite-denial-tricks/)


Fun scientific fact:

The theory of global warming in its core assumes maximum warming at the poles.

At the same time the average temperatures in the Arctic dropped by 0.88°C over the past 50 years.

Can't comment on this, as I don't understand where these numbers are coming from. I found numbers of  the average temperatures in the Arctic rising by 3.1°C over the past 50 year. (Source:  Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Programme ). I did find one article with your numbers, but it didn't specify where exactly the number was suppose dto come from.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 26, 2022, 11:38

Fun scientific fact:

The theory of global warming in its core assumes maximum warming at the poles.

At the same time the average temperatures in the Arctic dropped by 0.88°C over the past 50 years.

So it appears that you don't understand what I understand.  ;D
https://phys.org/news/2021-05-arctic-faster-planet.html (https://phys.org/news/2021-05-arctic-faster-planet.html)
"Arctic warming three times faster than the planet"
"In less than half a century, from 1971 to 2019, the Arctic's average annual temperature rose by 3.1C, compared to 1C for the planet as a whole."


https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/arctic-meteorology/climate_change.html (https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/arctic-meteorology/climate_change.html)
"Over the past 30 years, the Arctic has warmed at roughly twice the rate as the entire globe, a phenomenon known as Arctic amplification. Most scientists agree that this rapid warming is a signal of human-caused climate change."

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/featured-images/2020-arctic-air-temperatures-continue-long-term-warming-streak (https://www.climate.gov/news-features/featured-images/2020-arctic-air-temperatures-continue-long-term-warming-streak)
"2020 Arctic air temperatures continue a long-term warming streak"
"The unusual Arctic warmth of October 2019–September 2020 continues a seven-year-long streak of the warmest temperatures recorded since at least 1900. Since the year 2000, Arctic temperatures have consistently been above the 1981–2010 average, and nine of the last 10 years have seen temperatures at least 1.8°F (1°C) above that average. Over October 2019–September 2020, according to the Arctic Report Card, the annual average surface air temperature for land areas between 60°N and 90°N was 3.4°F (1.9°C) above the 1981–2010 average.

Since 2000*, Arctic temperatures have risen about twice as fast as global temperatures."
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 26, 2022, 11:41
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/
"CO2 makes up only about 0.04% of the atmosphere, and water vapor can vary from 0 to 4%. But while water vapor is the dominant greenhouse gas in our atmosphere, it has “windows” that allow some of the infrared energy to escape without being absorbed. In addition, water vapor is concentrated lower in the atmosphere, whereas CO2 mixes well all the way to about 50 kilometers up. The higher the greenhouse gas, the more effective it is at trapping heat from the Earth’s surface."
"The burning of fossil fuels affects the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. Before the industrial revolution, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere was about 288 ppm. We have now reached about 414 ppm, so we are on the way to doubling the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by the end of this century. Scientists say that if CO2 doubles, it could raise the average global temperature of the Earth between two and five degrees Celsius. We are already increasing the amount of energy that bounces back to the Earth. Because of the greenhouse effect, this is causing global warming with its many destructive impacts."

Leaving these here for people who actually want to look into the claims.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 26, 2022, 12:49
Here is an observation:

Russia is rather happy with the Arctic getting warmer because it opens up the Northern Sea Route, as a global shipping artery:
https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/09/19/why-russia-is-ambivalent-about-global-warming (https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/09/19/why-russia-is-ambivalent-about-global-warming)

Russia's immediate interest is to maintain its main exports as the world's main energy source.

Additionally, Global Warming will make agriculture possible on a lot of currently unused Russian land:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russia-climate-migration-crisis.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/16/magazine/russia-climate-migration-crisis.html)

Global Warming is good for Russia, and its very active troll farm is tasked to give a hand to climate change deniers.  ;)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on July 26, 2022, 13:23
 ;D


Whether most scientists outside climatology believe that global warming is happening is less relevant than whether the climatologists do. A letter signed by over 50 leading members of the American Meteorological Society warned about the policies promoted by environmental pressure groups. “The policy initiatives derive from highly uncertain scientific theories. They are based on the unsupported assumption that catastrophic global warming follows from the burning of fossil fuel and requires immediate action. We do not agree.”2 Those who have signed the letter represent the overwhelming majority of climate change scientists in the United States, of whom there are about 60. McMichael and Haines quote the 1995 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which is widely believed to “prove” that climate change induced by humans has occurred.3 The original draft document did not say this. What happened was that the policymakers’ summary (which became the “take home message” for politicians) altered the conclusions of the scientists. This led Dr Frederick Seitz, former head of the United States National Academy of Sciences, to write, “In more than sixty years as a member of the American scientific community ... I have never witnessed a more disturbing corruption of the peer-review process than the events that led to this IPCC report


https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.670.5931&rep=rep1&type=pdf (https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.670.5931&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on July 26, 2022, 13:53
Too bad this facts don't fit in the equation in this summers European record temperatures

;D

(https://i.ibb.co/C7kWpPQ/293725404-1159387201575064-3398773328874545320-n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 26, 2022, 15:30
Too bad this facts don't fit in the equation in this summers European record temperatures

;D

(https://i.ibb.co/C7kWpPQ/293725404-1159387201575064-3398773328874545320-n.jpg)

The table is interesting. I cannot judge from which source it comes and how up-to-date it is.

It obviously shows global temperature records from 123 years - from 1887 to 2010.

Highlighted in yellow are less than 30% of the heat records - those from 1887 to 1951 - that is, from the earlier 52% of the statistics.

Shown in white are more than 60% of the heat records from the remaining 48% of the more recent years.

Very specifically, compared to the 64 years from 1887 to 1951, more than twice as many heat records are in the most recent period of the past 34 years between 1976 and 2010.

This speaks for itself - so thank you for your overview.

I am rock solidly convinced that the table would look even clearer if the very recent trends were included.

A few days ago, temperature records were broken in 6 of 17 German states. Even more extreme were the records in Great Britain...
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 26, 2022, 15:35
By the way: in Germany, the value of 40.3 degrees in Kitzingen has long been outdated. In 2019, 41.2 degrees were measured in Duisburg.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 26, 2022, 16:43
Funny Scientific Fact:

In fact, carbon dioxide, which is blamed for climate warming, has only a volume share of 0.04 percent in the atmosphere. And of these 0.04 percent CO2, 95 percent come from natural sources, such as volcanoes or decomposition processes in nature. The human CO2 content in the air is thus only 0.0016 percent.

Is that the best you can do? Just make up some stuff?

It's neither funny, nor scientific, nor a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 26, 2022, 18:58
...A letter signed by over 50 leading members of the American Meteorological Society warned about the policies promoted by environmental pressure groups. “ ...

wow! 50 out of 12000 members!  https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/membership/ (https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/membership/)

among other policy statements of the SOCIETY, you obviously ignored:

Climate Change–The Basics https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/policy/policy-memos/ (https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/policy/policy-memos/)
As a public issue, climate change boils down to four overarching findings:
1) climate is changing,
2) people are causing climate to change,
3) human caused climate change poses serious risks to society, and
4) we have numerous options for managing climate change risks.


How Trustworthy Are Scientific Assessments of Climate Change?
Scientific evidence relating to the climate system and the impact that people might be having on it spans dozens of fields of study and includes work from tens of thousands of individual scientists. The evidence comes from decades of intensive research and is based on observations, field and laboratory experiments, and model simulations.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 26, 2022, 19:09



Very specifically, compared to the 64 years from 1887 to 1951, more than twice as many heat records are in the most recent period of the past 34 years between 1976 and 2010.

This speaks for itself - so thank you for your overview.

I am rock solidly convinced that the table would look even clearer if the very recent trends were included.

A few days ago, temperature records were broken in 6 of 17 German states. Even more extreme were the records in Great Britain...

and more to the point, not only are individual records being broken, but average temperatures are rising.  eg, last year seattle has 3 days in a row over 100 deg F (38 C), setting new records; previously Seattle had officially only hit 100 three times 

Most Hot Days
Total days per year on average when Seattle had temperatures of at least 90 °F (32 °C)
Days                   Decade
Highest   6   2010s
Runner-up   4   1970s
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on July 27, 2022, 01:25
Too bad this facts don't fit in the equation in this summers European record temperatures

;D

(https://i.ibb.co/C7kWpPQ/293725404-1159387201575064-3398773328874545320-n.jpg)

Again, confusing temperature with climate and not understanding that single high temperature records don't have much menaing: For example, According to your numbers Island might have had a record of 30.5 degrees in 1939 on a single day - Doesn't say much about whether the avarage temperature in the year 1939 was higher or lower than in for example 2022.

Here is an overview of the annual temperature by year in Stykkishólmur, Island:
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 27, 2022, 04:09
I wouldn’t waste my time arguing with the specific numbers and assuming this data is given in good faith. Poster has a history of scatter gunning bulls**t into this forum and just moving on to the next thing as soon as the points are addressed. I would give them the curtsey of assuming they aren’t dumb enough to keep believing their sources when they are so frequently and easily disproved.

For example take any of their highlighted countries and put them in here:

https://climateknowledgeportal.worldbank.org/country/poland/climate-data-historical

You get a nice easy to understand graphic of Observed Annual Mean Temperature which makes it painfully obvious the kind of cherry picking going on.

It only takes them a moment to post the next piece of BS that takes many posts to refute and they are straight onto the next one. Makes it look like there is still uncertainty or debate about this amongst sane, rational people. Which there absolutely isn’t. The BBC article about the misinformation campaign I posted earlier spells out some of these strategies.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on July 27, 2022, 06:18
And what are the odds those 50 members are on the payroll of some kind of fossil fuel company?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 27, 2022, 18:27
And what are the odds those 50 members are on the payroll of some kind of fossil fuel company?

some may just be independently ignorant
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 27, 2022, 18:48
...

For example take any of their highlighted countries and put them in here:

https://climateknowledgeportal.worldbank.org/country/poland/climate-data-historical

You get a nice easy to understand graphic of Observed Annual Mean Temperature which makes it painfully obvious the kind of cherry picking going on.....

great link & the color display dramatically makes the point about warming.  odd india & turkey (my favorite travel destinations) arent listed
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: UPLOAD-UPLOAD-UPLOAD on July 28, 2022, 05:03
You make it sound like the USA is right on track for environmental issues, Joe, but I doubt whether this is true. A lot of damage was done by your former administration in particular.

Hey Annie, how are you?
The thing is that I don't put a lot of faith in political solutions for environmental issues.
It does not matter what country you want to talk about the truth is if environmental issues cause jobs you can bet politicians will drop the environmental issues like hot potatoes.
Look at the Paris accords. Not one nation is going to keep its promises and the goals of the accords.
They never have and they never will. It's all just a bunch of hot air.
https://theconversation.com/australia-is-undermining-the-paris-agreement-no-matter-what-morrison-says-we-need-new-laws-to-stop-this-170198 (https://theconversation.com/australia-is-undermining-the-paris-agreement-no-matter-what-morrison-says-we-need-new-laws-to-stop-this-170198)
I place my faith in technology. There are literally hundreds of projects to solve various environmental problems being worked on here plus more in western Europe and I'm sure in Australia and other places as well. Most of the innovations always come out of American labs, so that is where I put a lot of faith.
The trick is for corporations to save money or to make more money for them to jump on a new technology.
Corporations are not stupid and will not go with a non solution that costs money. Here in America the change over from coal to natural gas is going very well but not in a wasteful, stupid, job costing manner. Unproductive and old coal plants are getting replaced with new natural gas plants plus a lot of wind energy and more geothermal. Yup, we are doing and not talking like they do in Paris.
You paid for your solar installation in three years?
You must have had atrocious electric bills or your installation must have been nearly free.
My electric bill is around $120 a month, except for slightly higher bills in June, a LOT higher bills in July and slightly higher in August. Here in Texas average conversions cost around $25,000. Yes, a young person like you can make that pay over the years IF you stay in your home. There is absolutely no way I can make a conversion pay.   
It also does not do a lot of good if China and Russia pollute with abandon and then the western nations are supposed to clean up the environment. Trump is right in that regard. Biden is plodding along, very deliberate and very cautious. It's one thing to talk like a President and something else to be one. Germany is a good example too. They are now starting up coal plants to make up for the lost natural gas from Russia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/germany-reactivate-coal-power-plants-russia-curbs-gas-flow (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/germany-reactivate-coal-power-plants-russia-curbs-gas-flow)
Jobs trump every issue.
Speaking of talking, Australia exports massive amounts of coal, so any talk about conservation at home is pretty much useless when coal and oil get sold to the polluters. It's just talk.
https://www.energy.gov.au/data/energy-trade (https://www.energy.gov.au/data/energy-trade)
This Australian article says it all.
https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/australias-fossil-fuel-expansion-plans-equivalent-to-over-200-new-coal-power-stations/ (https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/australias-fossil-fuel-expansion-plans-equivalent-to-over-200-new-coal-power-stations/)

In the mean time in the US
https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/02/us-coal-use-on-the-rise-but-renewables-continue-rapid-growth/ (https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2022/02/us-coal-use-on-the-rise-but-renewables-continue-rapid-growth/)



Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 28, 2022, 06:29
You make it sound like the USA is right on track for environmental issues, Joe, but I doubt whether this is true. A lot of damage was done by your former administration in particular.

Hey Annie, how are you?
The thing is that I don't put a lot of faith in political solutions for environmental issues.
It does not matter what country you want to talk about the truth is if environmental issues cause jobs you can bet politicians will drop the environmental issues like hot potatoes.
Look at the Paris accords. Not one nation is going to keep its promises and the goals of the accords.
They never have and they never will. It's all just a bunch of hot air.
https://theconversation.com/australia-is-undermining-the-paris-agreement-no-matter-what-morrison-says-we-need-new-laws-to-stop-this-170198 (https://theconversation.com/australia-is-undermining-the-paris-agreement-no-matter-what-morrison-says-we-need-new-laws-to-stop-this-170198)
I place my faith in technology. There are literally hundreds of projects to solve various environmental problems being worked on here plus more in western Europe and I'm sure in Australia and other places as well. Most of the innovations always come out of American labs, so that is where I put a lot of faith.
The trick is for corporations to save money or to make more money for them to jump on a new technology.
Corporations are not stupid and will not go with a non solution that costs money. Here in America the change over from coal to natural gas is going very well but not in a wasteful, stupid, job costing manner. Unproductive and old coal plants are getting replaced with new natural gas plants plus a lot of wind energy and more geothermal. Yup, we are doing and not talking like they do in Paris.
You paid for your solar installation in three years?
You must have had atrocious electric bills or your installation must have been nearly free.
My electric bill is around $120 a month, except for slightly higher bills in June, a LOT higher bills in July and slightly higher in August. Here in Texas average conversions cost around $25,000. Yes, a young person like you can make that pay over the years IF you stay in your home. There is absolutely no way I can make a conversion pay.   
It also does not do a lot of good if China and Russia pollute with abandon and then the western nations are supposed to clean up the environment. Trump is right in that regard. Biden is plodding along, very deliberate and very cautious. It's one thing to talk like a President and something else to be one. Germany is a good example too. They are now starting up coal plants to make up for the lost natural gas from Russia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/germany-reactivate-coal-power-plants-russia-curbs-gas-flow (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/germany-reactivate-coal-power-plants-russia-curbs-gas-flow)
Jobs trump every issue.
Speaking of talking, Australia exports massive amounts of coal, so any talk about conservation at home is pretty much useless when coal and oil get sold to the polluters. It's just talk.
https://www.energy.gov.au/data/energy-trade (https://www.energy.gov.au/data/energy-trade)

Yes, Joe, I mentioned Australia when I opened up the discussion on this thread about climate change, and what are governments around the world doing. Plus I have talked about it on another thread recently. I have been campaigning here in Australia for a few years against coal production. It has to end. And fortunately we recently changed our Federal Government. Scott Morrison is no longer our Prime Minister.

But I was addressing your comments about USA being on track. Fortunately, the Biden/Harris administration is making some headway but last month the conservative majority of your Supreme Court has dealt them a huge blow (mentioned in my previous reply to you).

USA is one of the worse offenders in the world. Australia because of coal production is up there too but China, despite their population, is becoming the world's leading country in electricity production from renewable energy sources.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2019/01/11/china-renewable-energy-superpower/?sh=746a4fe0745a (https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2019/01/11/china-renewable-energy-superpower/?sh=746a4fe0745a)

And, Joe - natural gas is a fossil fuel composed mainly of methane. It just seems to be a waste of time and money converting to natural gas, when it still presents a problem.

Refer: Why Natural Gas is Dangerous for the Climate.

https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/fossil-gas/why-natural-gas-is-dangerous-for-the-climate/ (https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/fossil-gas/why-natural-gas-is-dangerous-for-the-climate/)

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 28, 2022, 06:35
I wouldn’t waste my time arguing with the specific numbers and assuming this data is given in good faith. Poster has a history of scatter gunning bulls**t into this forum and just moving on to the next thing as soon as the points are addressed. I would give them the curtsey of assuming they aren’t dumb enough to keep believing their sources when they are so frequently and easily disproved.

For example take any of their highlighted countries and put them in here:

https://climateknowledgeportal.worldbank.org/country/poland/climate-data-historical

You get a nice easy to understand graphic of Observed Annual Mean Temperature which makes it painfully obvious the kind of cherry picking going on.

It only takes them a moment to post the next piece of BS that takes many posts to refute and they are straight onto the next one. Makes it look like there is still uncertainty or debate about this amongst sane, rational people. Which there absolutely isn’t. The BBC article about the misinformation campaign I posted earlier spells out some of these strategies.

Thanks for this.

As for the first part - yes, I have noticed that too.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 28, 2022, 08:09
You make it sound like the USA is right on track for environmental issues, Joe, but I doubt whether this is true. A lot of damage was done by your former administration in particular.

Hey Annie, how are you?
The thing is that I don't put a lot of faith in political solutions for environmental issues.
It does not matter what country you want to talk about the truth is if environmental issues cause jobs you can bet politicians will drop the environmental issues like hot potatoes.
Look at the Paris accords. Not one nation is going to keep its promises and the goals of the accords.
They never have and they never will. It's all just a bunch of hot air.
https://theconversation.com/australia-is-undermining-the-paris-agreement-no-matter-what-morrison-says-we-need-new-laws-to-stop-this-170198 (https://theconversation.com/australia-is-undermining-the-paris-agreement-no-matter-what-morrison-says-we-need-new-laws-to-stop-this-170198)
I place my faith in technology. There are literally hundreds of projects to solve various environmental problems being worked on here plus more in western Europe and I'm sure in Australia and other places as well. Most of the innovations always come out of American labs, so that is where I put a lot of faith.
The trick is for corporations to save money or to make more money for them to jump on a new technology.
Corporations are not stupid and will not go with a non solution that costs money. Here in America the change over from coal to natural gas is going very well but not in a wasteful, stupid, job costing manner. Unproductive and old coal plants are getting replaced with new natural gas plants plus a lot of wind energy and more geothermal. Yup, we are doing and not talking like they do in Paris.
You paid for your solar installation in three years?
You must have had atrocious electric bills or your installation must have been nearly free.
My electric bill is around $120 a month, except for slightly higher bills in June, a LOT higher bills in July and slightly higher in August. Here in Texas average conversions cost around $25,000. Yes, a young person like you can make that pay over the years IF you stay in your home. There is absolutely no way I can make a conversion pay.   
It also does not do a lot of good if China and Russia pollute with abandon and then the western nations are supposed to clean up the environment. Trump is right in that regard. Biden is plodding along, very deliberate and very cautious. It's one thing to talk like a President and something else to be one. Germany is a good example too. They are now starting up coal plants to make up for the lost natural gas from Russia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/germany-reactivate-coal-power-plants-russia-curbs-gas-flow (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/08/germany-reactivate-coal-power-plants-russia-curbs-gas-flow)
Jobs trump every issue.
Speaking of talking, Australia exports massive amounts of coal, so any talk about conservation at home is pretty much useless when coal and oil get sold to the polluters. It's just talk.
https://www.energy.gov.au/data/energy-trade (https://www.energy.gov.au/data/energy-trade)

Yes, Joe, I mentioned Australia when I opened up the discussion on this thread about climate change, and what are governments around the world doing. Plus I have talked about it on another thread recently. I have been campaigning here in Australia for a few years against coal production. It has to end. And fortunately we recently changed our Federal Government. Scott Morrison is no longer our Prime Minister.

But I was addressing your comments about USA being on track. Fortunately, the Biden/Harris administration is making some headway but last month the conservative majority of your Supreme Court has dealt them a huge blow (mentioned in my previous reply to you).

USA is one of the worse offenders in the world. Australia because of coal production is up there too but China, despite their population, is now the world's leading country in electricity production from renewable energy sources. See attached worldwide emissions graph.

And, Joe - natural gas is a fossil fuel composed mainly of methane. It just seems to be a waste of time and money converting to natural gas, when it still presents a problem.

Refer: Why Natural Gas is Dangerous for the Climate.

https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/fossil-gas/why-natural-gas-is-dangerous-for-the-climate/ (https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/fossil-gas/why-natural-gas-is-dangerous-for-the-climate/)

From my perspective, there is another big issue with gas supply in the United States, Annie.

A significant amount of the gas is now being extracted by fracking, which uses chemicals that have already contaminated the groundwater there in places. In addition, gas is a bridging technology - to which, for the reasons you mentioned, it must not be seen as a forward-looking solution, but only as an intermediate step....

Here, in the city of Kiel, there was a coal-fired power plant until recently that supplied the city with heat to a large extent. This coal-fired power plant was replaced by a modern gas-fired power plant. Now we have the problem that too little comes from Russia and we have to look for other sources of gas supply.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 28, 2022, 08:36

From my perspective, there is another big issue with gas supply in the United States, Annie.

A significant amount of the gas is now being extracted by fracking, which uses chemicals that have already contaminated the groundwater there in places. In addition, gas is a bridging technology - to which, for the reasons you mentioned, it must not be seen as a forward-looking solution, but only as an intermediate step....

Here, in the city of Kiel, there was a coal-fired power plant until recently that supplied the city with heat to a large extent. This coal-fired power plant was replaced by a modern gas-fired power plant. Now we have the problem that too little comes from Russia and we have to look for other sources of gas supply.

Be careful Wilm. See my previous post about Russia's interest in the energy industry and their interference with the climate change "debate".
A lot of the noise around fracking originates from the same Russian troll farm trained to create controversy favoring Russia's interests. It's very clear that Russia didn't like the competition they had to face when fracking took off.
Don't fall for it.

Standard drilling is also polluting. Besides, those water contamination problems were mainly an issue during the early stages of fracking, when the technology was not completely mastered.
It's not really a problem with modern fracking wells more than it is with standard oil wells.

Even climate change activists should acknowledge that, while obviously not satisfactory long term, the extra boost of gas and oil from fracking is a step forward compared with coal-based energy production.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 28, 2022, 13:47

From my perspective, there is another big issue with gas supply in the United States, Annie.

A significant amount of the gas is now being extracted by fracking, which uses chemicals that have already contaminated the groundwater there in places. In addition, gas is a bridging technology - to which, for the reasons you mentioned, it must not be seen as a forward-looking solution, but only as an intermediate step....

Here, in the city of Kiel, there was a coal-fired power plant until recently that supplied the city with heat to a large extent. This coal-fired power plant was replaced by a modern gas-fired power plant. Now we have the problem that too little comes from Russia and we have to look for other sources of gas supply.

Be careful Wilm. See my previous post about Russia's interest in the energy industry and their interference with the climate change "debate".
A lot of the noise around fracking originates from the same Russian troll farm trained to create controversy favoring Russia's interests. It's very clear that Russia didn't like the competition they had to face when fracking took off.
Don't fall for it.

Standard drilling is also polluting. Besides, those water contamination problems were mainly an issue during the early stages of fracking, when the technology was not completely mastered.
It's not really a problem with modern fracking wells more than it is with standard oil wells.

Even climate change activists should acknowledge that, while obviously not satisfactory long term, the extra boost of gas and oil from fracking is a step forward compared with coal-based energy production.

Hmmm, the essential information in this case comes from our federal government and our Federal Environmental Agency. To what extent they are influenced by Russian trolls, I don't know.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: pancaketom on July 28, 2022, 14:08
Eventually economics will sink the coal industry, but not until a lot more damage. I would say that legislation has made a huge difference in the environment in instances like the clean air act and the clean water act. At a minimum the legislation should stop encouraging damaging technology and practices.

At one time the conservatives and economists agreed that a carbon tax was the way to encourage change. Then when it looked like it could actually pass, they balked (not the economists, the so called conservatives). It is a global problem and local solutions can't fully solve it, but the US (or any other country) could lead the way and show what is possible. There are benefits beyond just dropping CO2 emissions - like not being beholden to say, Russia or Saudi Arabia and not having thousands of extra deaths from air pollution.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 28, 2022, 15:01

From my perspective, there is another big issue with gas supply in the United States, Annie.

A significant amount of the gas is now being extracted by fracking, which uses chemicals that have already contaminated the groundwater there in places. In addition, gas is a bridging technology - to which, for the reasons you mentioned, it must not be seen as a forward-looking solution, but only as an intermediate step....

Here, in the city of Kiel, there was a coal-fired power plant until recently that supplied the city with heat to a large extent. This coal-fired power plant was replaced by a modern gas-fired power plant. Now we have the problem that too little comes from Russia and we have to look for other sources of gas supply.

Be careful Wilm. See my previous post about Russia's interest in the energy industry and their interference with the climate change "debate".
A lot of the noise around fracking originates from the same Russian troll farm trained to create controversy favoring Russia's interests. It's very clear that Russia didn't like the competition they had to face when fracking took off.
Don't fall for it.

Standard drilling is also polluting. Besides, those water contamination problems were mainly an issue during the early stages of fracking, when the technology was not completely mastered.
It's not really a problem with modern fracking wells more than it is with standard oil wells.

Even climate change activists should acknowledge that, while obviously not satisfactory long term, the extra boost of gas and oil from fracking is a step forward compared with coal-based energy production.

Hmmm, the essential information in this case comes from our federal government and our Federal Environmental Agency. To what extent they are influenced by Russian trolls, I don't know.

Context is important.
Many statements may be true when compared with "green" energy.
But as long as the government is OK with traditional oil and gas drilling (including massive imports from Russia), fracking must be compared with it. Apples with apples.

For example, I don't think there was any fracking incident that caused a disaster as big as the Deepwater Horizon spill, and yet Germany and some other countries are Ok with traditional oil drilling but are banning fracking.  ???
Probably because we are so familiar with traditional oil drilling and we learned to accept its cons.
But if traditional oil drilling would have been discovered today, rest assured it would have been banned in some places as well, the same way fracking is banned.

Here is an analysis from 2015: https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/05/pros-and-cons-of-fracking-5-key-issues/
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 28, 2022, 15:42

From my perspective, there is another big issue with gas supply in the United States, Annie.

A significant amount of the gas is now being extracted by fracking, which uses chemicals that have already contaminated the groundwater there in places. In addition, gas is a bridging technology - to which, for the reasons you mentioned, it must not be seen as a forward-looking solution, but only as an intermediate step....

Here, in the city of Kiel, there was a coal-fired power plant until recently that supplied the city with heat to a large extent. This coal-fired power plant was replaced by a modern gas-fired power plant. Now we have the problem that too little comes from Russia and we have to look for other sources of gas supply.

Be careful Wilm. See my previous post about Russia's interest in the energy industry and their interference with the climate change "debate".
A lot of the noise around fracking originates from the same Russian troll farm trained to create controversy favoring Russia's interests. It's very clear that Russia didn't like the competition they had to face when fracking took off.
Don't fall for it.

Standard drilling is also polluting. Besides, those water contamination problems were mainly an issue during the early stages of fracking, when the technology was not completely mastered.
It's not really a problem with modern fracking wells more than it is with standard oil wells.

Even climate change activists should acknowledge that, while obviously not satisfactory long term, the extra boost of gas and oil from fracking is a step forward compared with coal-based energy production.

Hmmm, the essential information in this case comes from our federal government and our Federal Environmental Agency. To what extent they are influenced by Russian trolls, I don't know.

Context is important.
Many statements may be true when compared with "green" energy.
But as long as the government is OK with traditional oil and gas drilling (including massive imports from Russia), fracking must be compared with it. Apples with apples.

For example, I don't think there was any fracking incident that caused a disaster as big as the Deepwater Horizon spill, and yet Germany and some other countries are Ok with traditional oil drilling but are banning fracking.  ???
Probably because we are so familiar with traditional oil drilling and we learned to accept its cons.
But if traditional oil drilling would have been discovered today, rest assured it would have been banned in some places as well, the same way fracking is banned.

Here is an analysis from 2015: https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/05/pros-and-cons-of-fracking-5-key-issues/

The population density in the USA is about 34 inhabitants per square kilometer. In Germany, we are at about 230 inhabitants per square kilometer.

I think that the different ways of dealing with the issue of fracking is also due to these figures.

In the USA, fracking takes place in many places where only a few people live and where the risk of direct danger to the population is therefore lower than it would be in any place in Germany.

I therefore assume that the German government has a different attitude towards fracking than the US government.

Our federal government writes in the wording that there is not enough knowledge about fracking and its impact on the environment and local residents to allow fracking for industrial purposes. It is allowed and done on a small scale in the research sector.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 28, 2022, 16:05
.org/2015/05/pros-and-cons-of-fracking-5-key-issues/

The population density in the USA is about 34 inhabitants per square kilometer. In Germany, we are at about 230 inhabitants per square kilometer.

I think that the different ways of dealing with the issue of fracking is also due to these figures.

In the USA, fracking takes place in many places where only a few people live and where the risk of direct danger to the population is therefore lower than it would be in any place in Germany.

I therefore assume that the German government has a different attitude towards fracking than the US government.

Our federal government writes in the wording that there is not enough knowledge about fracking and its impact on the environment and local residents to allow fracking for industrial purposes. It is allowed and done on a small scale in the research sector.

Yes, but I wonder if the same ban would be applied if traditional oil is discovered on German land. Probably not.
And btw, I can see many fracking wells near densely populated Cleveland, San Antonio, etc (for example), see the attached maps (black dots = fracking wells).

It is striking that through fracking, Germany could have probably avoided reopening coal power plants (known to be more polluting than gas or oil power plants), stopped its unhealthy dependency on Russian gas and oil, and stopped sponsoring Putin's war machine.

Banning fracking was a big political mistake (when Merkel didn't gather enough support to go ahead with her intentions).
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: UPLOAD-UPLOAD-UPLOAD on July 29, 2022, 02:12
And, Joe - natural gas is a fossil fuel composed mainly of methane. It just seems to be a waste of time and money converting to natural gas, when it still presents a problem.
Natural gas is a clean burning very low polluting energy source. It's so clean you can burn it in your home without having an exhaust.
This fuel will have to see us until nuclear or fusion become options. Fusion is the ideal but every 30 years it's only 30 years from becoming reality.
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/ (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/)

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/natural-gas-and-the-environment.php (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/natural-gas-and-the-environment.php)

Regarding solar and wind energy, America is building that infrastructure very rapidly.
They all come with their problems. Solar panels are resource hogs and especially when combined with batteries.
We are replacing the old coal fired plants with natural gas, solar, wind and geothermal energy.
Yes, it all takes time. About 30 years to replace all coal fired plants. However, unlike Germany, Australia and a lot of other places
we are not building anymore coal plants. I don't want to pick on Germany just because Mutti Merckerl screwed up Germany's energy
plan. Nobody is perfect. I like to pick on the EU because they do a lot of bragging but little in the way of making progress.

Nuclear power comes with a crap load of problems, so for the next 30 or so years natural gas is the king of energy.
Let's not forget carbon sequestration. New technologies are in the labs in universities all over America.
Turning CO2 into gasoline is a great way to go if we can get the costs down.
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/09/turning-carbon-dioxide-gasoline-efficiently/ (https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/09/turning-carbon-dioxide-gasoline-efficiently/)
I think it's silly to play the blame game because every nation is different and has different infrastructure and needs.
The title of this thread is also stupid. As if the Republicans actually have a plan to keep the economy humming with no inflation.
It's all stupid talk.
Texas and California are bigger than the entire EU in both land mass and especially in GDP.
So yeah, we have to burn a whole lot more fuel to run our economies.
Massachusetts and California are the technology powerhouses of the world.
Actually Massachusetts is the technology leader, but California has the largest tech corporations.
Texas, a Republican state lags way behind in technology. Way behind Democrat controlled Massachusetts and California.
So all that talk is really nonsense. The corporations and not the politicians control most of the power and produce all of the innovation.

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on July 29, 2022, 02:43
If I interpret the graph Annie posted correctly, the decline in CO2 emissions has been greatest in Germany.
At the same time, it is a pity that the topic of biogas, for example, has been neglected in the last two years. Only now is the topic coming back into focus. Biogas now has a share of over 50% of renewable energies for electricity and heat generation here - more than wind power and photovoltaics combined. This needs to be expanded even further.

At first glance, natural gas is more environmentally friendly than coal because it produces significantly less CO2 when burned. But both the extraction of natural gas in Russia, for example, and fracking release methane gases. Since methane is many times more harmful to the atmosphere than CO2, gas is not the miracle cure, but, as already mentioned, a bridging technology.

It is true, as I have already written: nuclear fusion could dramatically reduce many problems, but research is not yet as far advanced as we would like.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 29, 2022, 03:43
Thanks to everyone who has participated, and thanks for all the exchange of info and ideas, not to mention we managed to get through 4 pages without any major battles and the thread staying intact. The latter being a surprising feat in itself. lol  I must admit I didn't expect such a big response when I first posted "forget the economy, etc, the climate will get us in the end".  ;)

And there was one recent post that seemed to get lost, which I thought summed up the situation fairly well:

Eventually economics will sink the coal industry, but not until a lot more damage. I would say that legislation has made a huge difference in the environment in instances like the clean air act and the clean water act. At a minimum the legislation should stop encouraging damaging technology and practices.

At one time the conservatives and economists agreed that a carbon tax was the way to encourage change. Then when it looked like it could actually pass, they balked (not the economists, the so called conservatives). It is a global problem and local solutions can't fully solve it, but the US (or any other country) could lead the way and show what is possible. There are benefits beyond just dropping CO2 emissions - like not being beholden to say, Russia or Saudi Arabia and not having thousands of extra deaths from air pollution.


So, now its back to the economy, war on Ukraine, and all the other problems of the world. I got a busy couple of weeks, so I'll leave those up to the rest of you to figure out.  Bye for now   :)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 29, 2022, 15:53
Hi, it's me Biden and I am making friends with a murderer because I need oil.

Bloody nauseating.

https://www.reuters.com/resizer/ZeJrOaL_mDYnPN1X43fucb_Odgk=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/5NMNCOEWXJJZRCH3TDDKGFY7IE.jpg (https://www.reuters.com/resizer/ZeJrOaL_mDYnPN1X43fucb_Odgk=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/5NMNCOEWXJJZRCH3TDDKGFY7IE.jpg)
https://www.reuters.com/resizer/4GKnDH0KbvOVxlSC7L-KFXPzkGs=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/L6XY35ZUBZO2RK7IA3PX2D3HU4.jpg (https://www.reuters.com/resizer/4GKnDH0KbvOVxlSC7L-KFXPzkGs=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/L6XY35ZUBZO2RK7IA3PX2D3HU4.jpg)

And also Macron is making good friends with one of the most woman unfriendly, terrorist supporting nations in the world.
https://www.reuters.com/resizer/fA_SOX60rVd70Fu_ybpTD07EMrg=/1024x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/Y7P2L2IQUJLORJUGQATSNHFDRI.jpg (https://www.reuters.com/resizer/fA_SOX60rVd70Fu_ybpTD07EMrg=/1024x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/Y7P2L2IQUJLORJUGQATSNHFDRI.jpg)

Keep it up guys with your hypocritical actions. And you sheep here, you cheer them on and on. It's quite pathetic.

And sure, you can place solar panels, place wind turbines divide your waste and renew it. But as long as you don't address the growing number of persons on this planet (especially in the Middle East and Africa) it's pretty useless. While you are dividing your paper, plastic and rest waste, in India they will dump a multitude of all that in the Ganges.

Some people here really believe that America and Europe is what the world consists of. They don't realise they are almost living in a museum which the rest of the world will just visit in a five decades or so. 750 + 330 = 1,080 of 7,800 is not even 14%. And getting smaller each decade. That's why in Europe they let in so many migrants, even though there is no room or money to support it. They hope these new people will become productive in the end because everything will be lost anyway. Especially after the big debt recession which is coming right about now.

So, your sales at the microstock agencies is the least you should worry about. Winter is coming and it will not contain Santa Clause and his elfs this year. You can't throw free money into a already debt burdened society and have a positive outcome in the end. We will pay the price for not taking the pain when covid hit. We fed and let the monster (inflation) in by lowering our interest rates (even below zero) to keep things afloat and now it will sink anyway.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 29, 2022, 19:06
..
A significant amount of the gas is now being extracted by fracking, which uses chemicals that have already contaminated the groundwater there in places. In addition, gas is a bridging technology - to which, for the reasons you mentioned, it must not be seen as a forward-looking solution, but only as an intermediate step.......

fracking's rape of the environment:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/11/us-fracking-climate-fossil-fuel-gases (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/11/us-fracking-climate-fossil-fuel-gases)

meanwhile... the General Mining Law of 1872, which helped build the nation also contributed to widespread damage to America’s lands and waters. That law still largely governs the mining on public lands for gold, silver, lithium, nickel and other “hardrock” minerals.
As the law now stands, taxpayers don’t get a penny in royalties for the hardrock minerals mined by private companies on public land. And because it was not until the 1970s that mine operators were required to “reclaim,” or restore, the land once they were done with it, the destructive consequences of the extraction of those minerals remain today in scarred landscapes and polluted rivers.

Some 140,000 remnants of these mines are known to exist; some 22,500 pose or may pose risks to humans or wildlife from the pollution they spew. Hundreds of thousands more may be out there. An analysis by Mr. Wood’s organization, Trout Unlimited, of 2015 data from the Environmental Protection Agency found that an estimated 110,000 miles of streams in the lower 48 states are contaminated with heavy metals or acidity. Abandoned mines are a significant source of this pollution. Many of these streams are in watersheds that supply drinking water for communities and provide habitat for trout and salmon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/opinion/clean-energy-mining-pollution.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/28/opinion/clean-energy-mining-pollution.html)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 29, 2022, 19:50
fracking's rape of the environment:

... music to Putin's ears! And to MBS's ears too!

Two criminals, two murderers validated by the colossal political mistake of relying on their gas and oil while rejecting viable alternatives at hand. ::)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 30, 2022, 14:55


The population density in the USA is about 34 inhabitants per square kilometer. In Germany, we are at about 230 inhabitants per square kilometer.

I think that the different ways of dealing with the issue of fracking is also due to these figures.

In the USA, fracking takes place in many places where only a few people live and where the risk of direct danger to the population is therefore lower than it would be in any place in Germany.

I therefore assume that the German government has a different attitude towards fracking than the US government.



the German govt is also probably not bought by oil & gas companies. in the US congressional bills are often written by the industries being regulated

"People on the Hill don't stay as long," he says. "You don't get as good people on the Hill. The expertise on policymaking more and more has moved to the private sector, and it's moved to represent those organizations and companies who can afford to pay for it, which generally isn't you and me. It's big banks and Big Oil and big companies."  https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/11/11/243973620/when-lobbyists-literally-write-the-bill (https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2013/11/11/243973620/when-lobbyists-literally-write-the-bill)

while population density is low in US fracking areas, severe environmental damage results; and water used in fracking is enormous (in western states undergoing years of drought!)

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp)

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 30, 2022, 15:05
The German government made another big political blunder when they decided to shut down all their nuclear power plants, only to increase their dependency on Russian gas and oil.
That was as stupid as banning fracking.

Reopening coal power plants and validating Putin's war crimes is definitely the worst alternative: pollution is worsening and innocent people are dying.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on July 31, 2022, 01:13
The German government made another big political blunder when they decided to shutdown all their nuclear power plants, only to increase their dependency on Russian gas and oil.
That was as stupid as banning fracking.
Reopening coal power plants and validating Putin's war crimes is definitely the worst alternative: pollution is worsen and innocent people are dying.

I disagree. The political blunder the (past) German government did was not to decide to shutdown nuclear power plants and ban fraking - These were the right decisions. As long as we do not know what to do with our nuclear waste and as long as fracking poses a health and environmental risk due to toxic chemicals and water pollution these are no acceptable alternatives.
The big blunder the German government did was do decide to shutdown nuclear power plants and ban fraking, while not pushing renewable energy resources in a way that they could compensate for nuclear power and fracking.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 31, 2022, 06:18

The big blunder the German government did was do decide to shutdown nuclear power plants and ban fraking, while not pushing renewable energy resources in a way that they could compensate for nuclear power and fracking.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. No disagreement.

In an ideal world, there should only be green energy.
But in the real world, caving under the pressure from extreme left groups, the German government pushed itself into a corner where there is no alternative to Putin's gas and oil.

Knowing very well that renewable energies are far from being sufficient to sustain the German economy, the German government banned fracking and shut down nuclear power plants, while investing in pipelines to Russia.

Innocent people (including children) are killed by a murderer sponsored by German money. The environment is polluted even more by re-opening coal power plants.

Big political mistake, indeed!
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 31, 2022, 06:26
The big blunder the German government did was do decide to shutdown nuclear power plants and ban fraking, while not pushing renewable energy resources in a way that they could compensate for nuclear power and fracking.

Well, Germany did invest huge amounts of money in renewable energies, but it takes time to rebuild the whole energy generation of an industrial country.

I do not think that much more would have been realistic, particularly as we have reached a point were much more electric energy from Wind and Solar does not make a lot of sense without the possibility to store the energy and we did not make any real progress in this area during the last decades and I do not see any country really having more success there, except some countries with large resources of hydropower.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on July 31, 2022, 07:05

Well, Germany did invest huge amounts of money in renewable energies, but it takes time to rebuild the whole energy generation of an industrial country.


Not really. The Germany government spends around 37 BILLION € subsidizing the coal industry each year. In 2021 they only spent around 13 billion for the development of renewable energies.
And there was plenty of time. Only that for the past 20 years the governmet wasted all the time. Compared to the support of other industries, they basically did close to nothing for renewable energy industries.


I do not think that much more would have been realistic, particularly as we have reached a point were much more electric energy from Wind and Solar does not make a lot of sense without the possibility to store the energy and we did not make any real progress in this area during the last decades and I do not see any country really having more success there, except some countries with large resources of hydropower.

Also not really. We could store much more energy if the government had spend more money on building strorage facilities, instead of supporting the coal industry. The technology is there. We just don't spend enough money on it. And right now we don't produce enough renewable energy to have any kind of storage problem.
Also, we could produce a lot  more energy through renewable recources that don't need to be stored, but could be used right away. Put a solar panel on every single building. A solar panel on a roof can cover around 40% of the electricity needed for a residential building. That's 40% less energy you need from other recources. But for that, a law that would require solar pannels on roofs of newly build buildings should have been passed 20 years ago. Didn't happen till today.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 31, 2022, 07:42
Not really. The Germany government spends around 37 BILLION € subsidizing the coal industry each year.

Where did you get this number from? This would be about 17% of the Federal Budget. Seems exceedingly high.

In 2021 they only spent around 13 billion for the development of renewable energies.
 

This seems to be about the amount collected with the EEG surcharge (EEG-Umlage). Germany spent more money for the energy transition, though, like subsidies for electric cars or for low energy houses.

And there was plenty of time. Only that for the past 20 years the governmet wasted all the time. Compared to the support of other industries, they basically did close to nothing for renewable energy industries.

Then why did nobody else have more success? Again, with the exception of countries with large ressources of hydropower.

Also not really. We could store much more energy if the government had spend more money on building strorage facilities, instead of supporting the coal industry. The technology is there. We just don't spend enough money on it. And right now we don't produce enough renewable energy to have any kind of storage problem.
Also, we could produce a lot  more energy through renewable recources that don't need to be stored, but could be used right away. Put a solar panel on every single building. A solar panel on a roof can cover around 40% of the electricity needed for a residential building. That's 40% less energy you need from other recources. But for that, a law that would require solar pannels on roofs of newly build buildings should have been passed 20 years ago. Didn't happen till today.

You can install all the solar panels on all the buildings you want (if you find the people to install them), you will still have next to no electricity at noon in winter and none at all after 3 or 4 PM.

And again, why did nobody else have more success storing electric energy from wind or solar? Seems like there is no easy solution after all, or somebody would have used it by now, even if the technology is there, in theory.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 31, 2022, 13:07
./ As long as we do not know what to do with our nuclear waste ...

US solved that problem (thru inaction) - we just store the waste at 'specially designed pools' at individual power plants!

in the 80s i worked for a low-lvl radioactive waste disposal company (short half-life like medical waste that only needs to be stored for at most decades) -- dumped in a 50' deep pit in 600'+ layer of clay. I did finite element modeling to design casks - 20' high containers to transport 50 gal drums of waste - physical tested by dropping off freeway overpass (empty) (took an effort to convince them computer modeling first was a better approach the n just "build & drop")

attended industry conferences with sessions about disposal of higher-level waste - several reasonable (?) proposals offered, but 40 yrs later still nothing done - many rejected by NIMBY (not in my backyard) politics
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 31, 2022, 13:14
...
You can install all the solar panels on all the buildings you want (if you find the people to install them), you will still have next to no electricity at noon in winter and none at all after 3 or 4 PM.

And again, why did nobody else have more success storing electric energy from wind or solar? Seems like there is no easy solution after all, or somebody would have used it by now, even if the technology is there, in theory.

solar panels still work on cloudy days

batteries are available, but expensive - some areas have a way to feed the grid when excess power is generated

in US problem is less technological than corporate greed - much more spent on continued use of fossil fuels
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on July 31, 2022, 13:39

US solved that problem (thru inaction) - we just store the waste at 'specially designed pools' at individual power plants!


That's not solving the problem, it's delaying the problem.
What happens in 500 years when the containers start to leak? When the walls of the power plant start to become bristle? What happens in 10.000 years (if the world still exists)? Do you know what "Nuclear semiotics" is? A field of research to come up with a long-term nuclear waste warning message, the attempt to warn humankind in the far future of the danger of location of nuclear waste without the assumption that they speak any language known to us.
Storing them in a facility is just postponing to solve the problem and the only solution to this problem would be finding a method to make nuclear waste not-contaminated and no one has solved that problem yet. In the menatime storing nuclear waste anywhere is just delaying the problem to future generations. Because the containers WILL leak eventually. But it's the whole climate change problem all over again and why I think we won't be able to stop it: "Why should I care what happens in 500 years? That's not my problem. I'll be dead by then. I want my cheap electricity now. Don't care that future generations will have to pay the price."
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 31, 2022, 15:11
...
You can install all the solar panels on all the buildings you want (if you find the people to install them), you will still have next to no electricity at noon in winter and none at all after 3 or 4 PM.

solar panels still work on cloudy days

They only yield a fraction of what they do at sunshine, though, and they certainly don't work after sunset.


batteries are available, but expensive - some areas have a way to feed the grid when excess power is generated

Yes, of course the solar panels feed the power not locally needed into the grid. The problem is that everybody does that at noon on a sunny summer day, while not much power from solar panels is available in winter and none at all after 3 or 4 PM in winter. At least in Germany, it may be different further south. The power from wind mills cannot compensate for that and they do not always provide the same yield either.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on July 31, 2022, 15:24
Do you know what "Nuclear semiotics" is? A field of research to come up with a long-term nuclear waste warning message, the attempt to warn humankind in the far future of the danger of location of nuclear waste without the assumption that they speak any language known to us.

A reasonable number of people today can still read texts that are more than 2000 years old in languages like Sanskrit, Hebrew, Ancient Greek or Latin.

Specialists can read even older texts in languages like Hittite or Sumerian.

I have no doubt that mankind will still be able to decipher English texts in 10,000 years, and probably a number of other languages spoken and written today, like Chinese, Hindi, Japanese, Arabic, Spanish, German, Russian or French, as there is so much literature and other written stuff availble in these languages and it is very unlikely that this will all be lost.

Unless something really desastrous happens that destroys our civilasation, like when the earth is hit by gigantic meteorite. In that case, some nuclear waste will be the least of our problems.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on July 31, 2022, 16:14
...
You can install all the solar panels on all the buildings you want (if you find the people to install them), you will still have next to no electricity at noon in winter and none at all after 3 or 4 PM.

And again, why did nobody else have more success storing electric energy from wind or solar? Seems like there is no easy solution after all, or somebody would have used it by now, even if the technology is there, in theory.

solar panels still work on cloudy days

batteries are available, but expensive - some areas have a way to feed the grid when excess power is generated

in US problem is less technological than corporate greed - much more spent on continued use of fossil fuels

Yes, batteries are the way to go.

On a personal level, we had one installed in our garage 3 years ago, which is hooked up to our solar panels, and has already paid for itself. (Not to mention, one of my stock photos of it, is my number 1 best seller on AS, and sells daily since I first uploaded it  ;D)


On a statewide level, South Australia has the world's first big battery, built by Elon Musk in 2017 to assist South Australia after we had a major statewide blackout and power crisis. It was up and operational very quickly. Tesla made a deal that it would be '100 days or its free' with our government. Its provided jobs. Its helped our economy, lowered electricity costs and has an positive economic multiplier effect. Its hooked up to a wind farm.

I have been meaning to go up there and get some drone shots of it for awhile, but its quite a distance away.

In a statement confirming the Federal Government's investment in the battery expansion, Energy Minister Angus Taylor said it would improve response times on the worst days when demand was at its highest and the wind was not blowing and the sun was not shining.

"Projects like this, combined with the gas and pumped hydro projects that are coming online, are extremely important to the future integration of renewable energy to the South Australian grid," he said." (2019)


While Australia is still mining and exporting coal overseas, “Neoen’s Hornsdale Power Reserve is a pioneering project that aims to demonstrate the full technical capabilities of what batteries can achieve,” says ARENA CEO Darren Miller. Improving the economics of energy storage is going to be key in our transition to high shares of renewable electricity. We look forward to more grid-scale batteries becoming equipped with advanced inverter capabilities.”


https://hornsdalepowerreserve.com.au/

(https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/2c8d8182a8526ae499a0047abb940d22?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=538&cropW=956&xPos=0&yPos=32&width=862&height=485)

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cathyslife on July 31, 2022, 16:40
Paul Harvey with some climate change prescience from 1992.


https://youtu.be/0OtQhIJde50

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on July 31, 2022, 19:37

US solved that problem (thru inaction) - we just store the waste at 'specially designed pools' at individual power plants!


That's not solving the problem, it's delaying the problem.
What happens in 500 years when the containers start to leak? When the walls of the power plant start to become bristle? What happens in 10.000 years (if the world still exists)? Do you know what "Nuclear semiotics" is? A field of research to come up with a long-term nuclear waste warning message, the attempt to warn humankind in the far future of the danger of location of nuclear waste without the assumption that they speak any language known to us.
Storing them in a facility is just postponing to solve the problem and the only solution to this problem would be finding a method to make nuclear waste not-contaminated and no one has solved that problem yet. In the menatime storing nuclear waste anywhere is just delaying the problem to future generations. Because the containers WILL leak eventually. But it's the whole climate change problem all over again and why I think we won't be able to stop it: "Why should I care what happens in 500 years? That's not my problem. I'll be dead by then. I want my cheap electricity now. Don't care that future generations will have to pay the price."

sorry - sarcasm lost! - i agree w you completely
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on July 31, 2022, 22:18
That's not solving the problem, it's delaying the problem.
What happens in 500 years when the containers start to leak? When the walls of the power plant start to become bristle? What happens in 10.000 years (if the world still exists)?

You are assuming that the technology 500 or 10.000 years from now will be the same as today.

It's as if 10.000 years ago humans were afraid to master fire to prevent bad things from happening today.

Rest assured that technology will evolve and solutions will become available for many problems that may seem difficult to solve today.

What you do is proposing to sacrifice real humans, people struggling today to prevent hypothetical problems that may or may not happen in the (very) distant future.

Nevertheless, I must admit that the topic may be suitable for a good science fiction movie. Apocalyptic scenarios gather decent ratings.
Here are the top 100: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls052725603/ (https://www.imdb.com/list/ls052725603/)

 :D
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on August 01, 2022, 01:29

US solved that problem (thru inaction) - we just store the waste at 'specially designed pools' at individual power plants!


That's not solving the problem, it's delaying the problem.
What happens in 500 years when the containers start to leak? When the walls of the power plant start to become bristle? What happens in 10.000 years (if the world still exists)? Do you know what "Nuclear semiotics" is? A field of research to come up with a long-term nuclear waste warning message, the attempt to warn humankind in the far future of the danger of location of nuclear waste without the assumption that they speak any language known to us.
Storing them in a facility is just postponing to solve the problem and the only solution to this problem would be finding a method to make nuclear waste not-contaminated and no one has solved that problem yet. In the menatime storing nuclear waste anywhere is just delaying the problem to future generations. Because the containers WILL leak eventually. But it's the whole climate change problem all over again and why I think we won't be able to stop it: "Why should I care what happens in 500 years? That's not my problem. I'll be dead by then. I want my cheap electricity now. Don't care that future generations will have to pay the price."

sorry - sarcasm lost! - i agree w you completely

Oops, sorry, my sarcasm detector is way off. With what weird opinions some people display on the internet you can never know whether they are being serious or not.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Lizard on August 07, 2022, 02:43
Funny Scientific Fact:

In fact, carbon dioxide, which is blamed for climate warming, has only a volume share of 0.04 percent in the atmosphere. And of these 0.04 percent CO2, 95 percent come from natural sources, such as volcanoes or decomposition processes in nature. The human CO2 content in the air is thus only 0.0016 percent.

Is that the best you can do? Just make up some stuff?

It's neither funny, nor scientific, nor a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere)

0.04% ... FACT...Now go and accuse real scientists they are inventing stuff you don't like!

The current molecular composition of Earth’s atmosphere is diatomic nitrogen (N2), 78.08 percent; diatomic oxygen (O2), 20.95 percent; argon (A), 0.93 percent; water (H20), about 0 to 4 percent; and carbon dioxide (CO2), 0.04 percent. Inert gases such as neon (Ne), helium (He), and krypton (Kr) and other constituents such as nitrogen oxides, compounds of sulfur, and compounds of ozone are found in lesser amounts.



SOURCES:

https://www.britannica.com/science/atmosphere (https://www.britannica.com/science/atmosphere)

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/ (https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/)

https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/air-quality/resources/glossary/carbon-dioxide (https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/air-quality/resources/glossary/carbon-dioxide)

https://ballotpedia.org/Carbon_dioxide (https://ballotpedia.org/Carbon_dioxide)

https://www.space.com/17683-earth-atmosphere.html (https://www.space.com/17683-earth-atmosphere.html)


So, its a FACT, its SCIENTIFIC, and its FUNNY and there's nothing you can do about it.   ;D



Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Firn on August 07, 2022, 02:51
Funny Scientific Fact:

In fact, carbon dioxide, which is blamed for climate warming, has only a volume share of 0.04 percent in the atmosphere. And of these 0.04 percent CO2, 95 percent come from natural sources, such as volcanoes or decomposition processes in nature. The human CO2 content in the air is thus only 0.0016 percent.

Is that the best you can do? Just make up some stuff?

It's neither funny, nor scientific, nor a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere)

0.04% ... FACT...Now go and accuse real scientists they are inventing stuff you don't like!

The current molecular composition of Earth’s atmosphere is diatomic nitrogen (N2), 78.08 percent; diatomic oxygen (O2), 20.95 percent; argon (A), 0.93 percent; water (H20), about 0 to 4 percent; and carbon dioxide (CO2), 0.04 percent. Inert gases such as neon (Ne), helium (He), and krypton (Kr) and other constituents such as nitrogen oxides, compounds of sulfur, and compounds of ozone are found in lesser amounts.



SOURCES:

https://www.britannica.com/science/atmosphere (https://www.britannica.com/science/atmosphere)

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/ (https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/)

https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/air-quality/resources/glossary/carbon-dioxide (https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/air-quality/resources/glossary/carbon-dioxide)

https://ballotpedia.org/Carbon_dioxide (https://ballotpedia.org/Carbon_dioxide)

https://www.space.com/17683-earth-atmosphere.html (https://www.space.com/17683-earth-atmosphere.html)


So, its a FACT, its SCIENTIFIC, and its FUNNY and there's nothing you can do about it.   ;D

We already had this conversation.


Funny Scientific Fact:

In fact, carbon dioxide, which is blamed for climate warming, has only a volume share of 0.04 percent in the atmosphere. And of these 0.04 percent CO2, 95 percent come from natural sources, such as volcanoes or decomposition processes in nature. The human CO2 content in the air is thus only 0.0016 percent.

That's not a "scientific fact", or at least it's just a twisted part of it without looking at the whole picture.
It's true that natural resources cause high amounts of carbon, but, unlike human caused carbon it does not add any net CO2 to the atmosphere. It's a cycle where carbon is added and taken again from the atmosphere.
Any biomass which decomposes must first have grown  the CO2 released during rotting. It was first taken from the atmosphere by photosynthesis and then later added again.
It's all explained better than I could here:
https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/01/the-global-co2-rise-the-facts-exxon-and-the-favorite-denial-tricks/ (https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2018/01/the-global-co2-rise-the-facts-exxon-and-the-favorite-denial-tricks/)


Fun scientific fact:

The theory of global warming in its core assumes maximum warming at the poles.

At the same time the average temperatures in the Arctic dropped by 0.88°C over the past 50 years.

Can't comment on this, as I don't understand where these numbers are coming from. I found numbers of  the average temperatures in the Arctic rising by 3.1°C over the past 50 year. (Source:  Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Programme ). I did find one article with your numbers, but it didn't specify where exactly the number was suppose dto come from.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on August 07, 2022, 04:12
Funny Scientific Fact:

In fact, carbon dioxide, which is blamed for climate warming, has only a volume share of 0.04 percent in the atmosphere. And of these 0.04 percent CO2, 95 percent come from natural sources, such as volcanoes or decomposition processes in nature. The human CO2 content in the air is thus only 0.0016 percent.

Is that the best you can do? Just make up some stuff?

It's neither funny, nor scientific, nor a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere)

0.04% ... FACT...Now go and accuse real scientists they are inventing stuff you don't like!
...
So, its a FACT, its SCIENTIFIC, and its FUNNY and there's nothing you can do about it.   ;D

The current concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere was the only fact in your posting and noone disputes that. Or perhaps I should say it's almost a fact, since the concentration is increasing and according to the Wikipedia article I linked to, the concentration was already 0.041% in 2018, but never mind that.

What is made up is that 95% of that is from natural sources. In pre-industrial times, the concentration was only 0.028, so the increase, which is mainly due to human activities, is 0.012, not 0.0016, as your posting suggested.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on August 07, 2022, 04:33
Funny Scientific Fact:

In fact, carbon dioxide, which is blamed for climate warming, has only a volume share of 0.04 percent in the atmosphere. And of these 0.04 percent CO2, 95 percent come from natural sources, such as volcanoes or decomposition processes in nature. The human CO2 content in the air is thus only 0.0016 percent.

Is that the best you can do? Just make up some stuff?

It's neither funny, nor scientific, nor a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere)

0.04% ... FACT...Now go and accuse real scientists they are inventing stuff you don't like!

The current molecular composition of Earth’s atmosphere is diatomic nitrogen (N2), 78.08 percent; diatomic oxygen (O2), 20.95 percent; argon (A), 0.93 percent; water (H20), about 0 to 4 percent; and carbon dioxide (CO2), 0.04 percent. Inert gases such as neon (Ne), helium (He), and krypton (Kr) and other constituents such as nitrogen oxides, compounds of sulfur, and compounds of ozone are found in lesser amounts.



SOURCES:

https://www.britannica.com/science/atmosphere (https://www.britannica.com/science/atmosphere)

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/ (https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/07/30/co2-drives-global-warming/)

https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/air-quality/resources/glossary/carbon-dioxide (https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/air-quality/resources/glossary/carbon-dioxide)

https://ballotpedia.org/Carbon_dioxide (https://ballotpedia.org/Carbon_dioxide)

https://www.space.com/17683-earth-atmosphere.html (https://www.space.com/17683-earth-atmosphere.html)


So, its a FACT, its SCIENTIFIC, and its FUNNY and there's nothing you can do about it.   ;D


If you read the text in the 2nd source you linked here, it is very clear to read that the - supposedly so small - share of CO2 emissions caused by us humans is a huge problem. I hope you read that.

Since the industrial revolution, CO2 levels in the atmosphere have risen from 288ppm to 414ppm. This means that in this very short time, humans are responsible for an increase in CO2 levels of almost 45%. This figure is also confirmed in the fourth link you posted.

Calculated differently: 0.0288% before, 0.0414% today = 0.0126%.

Where you found the 0.0016%, I don't know either. Unless you have a source that says, for example, that many more volcanic eruptions occurred during the Industrial Revolution than before, and that therefore humans had nothing to do with this increase.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 07, 2022, 13:55
Someone tell me, CO2 is 0.0414% of the atmosphere and that's causing the climate to change? I never knew it was such a small number as 4/100th of 1 percent.

Fracking may be a bad idea, but it does not cause the drought. My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?  ;)

https://www.kcet.org/redefine/drought-fact-check-how-much-does-fracking-really-use#:~:text=If%20the%20drought%20continues%20long%20enough%20that%20we%27re,process%20potentially%20despoils%2C%20not%20the%20water%20it%20uses. (https://www.kcet.org/redefine/drought-fact-check-how-much-does-fracking-really-use#:~:text=If%20the%20drought%20continues%20long%20enough%20that%20we%27re,process%20potentially%20despoils%2C%20not%20the%20water%20it%20uses.)

If you don't want to read and already have your mind made up and aren't willing to read facts, I'll cut to the simple numbers.

"DWR puts the average household's toilet flushing use at 37.31 gallons per day, which comes to 524,755 acre-feet per year, when accounting for all households.

That means residential toilets actually use almost 2,500 times as much water as fracking does..." California

Personally I'd rather deal with nuclear and the waste, and stop burning coal and making more pollution. I'd like to see more development of clean energy. Then as we make progress, stop using the temporary measures, which are better than the high pollution systems of old?

For all the new modern clean ways that use batteries, what happens when they are old and used up? Is there a waste problem for that? And where does all the electricity come from for electric cars? You can't just legislate the end to fossil fuels, without replacing that loss of energy. What's going to power transportation?

Where do the old batteries go?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: DroneNamibia on August 07, 2022, 17:14
Thanks to the incompetent idiots in charge, we're on our way to a recession.

I anticipate that many companies with either start downgrading or cancelling their microstock accounts from sites like SS and AS.

My SS sales has dipped in the last few weeks. Less big sales and less daily downloads.

Just brace yourselves for what's to come and stop supporting people who are economically illiterate.

More a Covid/Putin/China recession... Covid for stopping worldwide production.. Putin for raising transport costs worldwide with higher energy cost (due to war).. and China for slowing down its economy with their "Strict 0 Covid" policy..

I heard old saying, something line "large balls is always an excuse for bad dancer". Blame Putin for all, it is safe bet.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Big Toe on August 07, 2022, 17:17
Someone tell me, CO2 is 0.0414% of the atmosphere and that's causing the climate to change? I never knew it was such a small number as 4/100th of 1 percent.

What is causing the climate change is the manmade increase in the CO2 concentration. The base line concentration of about 0.028% is also causing a greenhouse effect and together with some other gases is responsible for the Earth being a class M planet. Without any greenhouse effect, Earth would be an ice planet.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: DroneNamibia on August 07, 2022, 17:20
The German government made another big political blunder when they decided to shutdown all their nuclear power plants, only to increase their dependency on Russian gas and oil.
That was as stupid as banning fracking.
Reopening coal power plants and validating Putin's war crimes is definitely the worst alternative: pollution is worsen and innocent people are dying.

I disagree. The political blunder the (past) German government did was not to decide to shutdown nuclear power plants and ban fraking - These were the right decisions. As long as we do not know what to do with our nuclear waste and as long as fracking poses a health and environmental risk due to toxic chemicals and water pollution these are no acceptable alternatives.
The big blunder the German government did was do decide to shutdown nuclear power plants and ban fraking, while not pushing renewable energy resources in a way that they could compensate for nuclear power and fracking.

Can you remind at what court of law was Putin convicted? Or is it your usual Zero truth statement?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on August 07, 2022, 17:21
Interesting to see this thread is still going. (oops, I just saw the last post - and no fighting please!)

Pete mentioned electric cars. If anyone is interested in electric vehicles and remember Ewan McGregor's Long Way Round series, they made another one called
Long Way Up (Apple TV) but this time with electric motorcycles. Up through South America to LA. Lots of challenges, great scenery, some fantastic drone shots, and - it may turn you off electric vehicles  ;) - but very interesting to see how they manage it, especially in remote areas.

Here's the trailer.

https://youtu.be/611fw81BN98




Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Stock4Me on August 07, 2022, 21:39
Someone tell me, CO2 is 0.0414% of the atmosphere and that's causing the climate to change? I never knew it was such a small number as 4/100th of 1 percent.

What is causing the climate change is the manmade increase in the CO2 concentration. The base line concentration of about 0.028% is also causing a greenhouse effect and together with some other gases is responsible for the Earth being a class M planet. Without any greenhouse effect, Earth would be an ice planet.

Five quadrillion tonnes of atmosphere, and .028% change causes all this destruction. Very fragile that such a small change can cause all these problems. How do we stop the change? 200 years of humans making co2 how can we reverse that?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on August 08, 2022, 10:57
... My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?  ;)

agriculture includes wasting water on crops in the wrong places - eg growing almonds in a desert & cotton "Production and processing of cotton uses a large amount of water. Some experts contend that cotton is the largest user of water among all agricultural commodities. Surface and ground waters are often diverted to irrigate cotton fields, leading to freshwater loss through evaporation, and inefficient water management."

not to mention lawns in deserts and along highway medians
Quote
...

That means residential toilets actually use almost 2,500 times as much water as fracking does..." California

false equivalence - first, there are 320 MILLION people, and B, fracking is a choice, not a necessity


Quote
...
Personally I'd rather deal with nuclear and the waste, and stop burning coal and making more pollution. I'd like to see more development of clean energy. Then as we make progress, stop using the temporary measures, which are better than the high pollution systems of old?
unfortunately we continue to let fossil fuel companies make obscene profits they use to buy congress, while not having to deal w the environmental consequences of their extraction

 
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 08, 2022, 11:34
... My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?  ;)

agriculture includes wasting water on crops in the wrong places - eg growing almonds in a desert & cotton "Production and processing of cotton uses a large amount of water. Some experts contend that cotton is the largest user of water among all agricultural commodities. Surface and ground waters are often diverted to irrigate cotton fields, leading to freshwater loss through evaporation, and inefficient water management."

not to mention lawns in deserts and along highway medians
Quote
...

That means residential toilets actually use almost 2,500 times as much water as fracking does..." California

false equivalence - first, there are 320 MILLION people, and B, fracking is a choice, not a necessity


Quote
...
Personally I'd rather deal with nuclear and the waste, and stop burning coal and making more pollution. I'd like to see more development of clean energy. Then as we make progress, stop using the temporary measures, which are better than the high pollution systems of old?
unfortunately we continue to let fossil fuel companies make obscene profits they use to buy congress, while not having to deal w the environmental consequences of their extraction

Farming is farming, you managed to slip in lawns and medians? Let those turn brown. That's not agriculture is it? Whether fracking is a choice or not, the claim is that Fracking causes droughts and a water shortage, while flushing toilets and leaking waste by consumers, uses 2,500 times more water than fracking. If someone is going to attack fracking, it should be done with the truth and facts, not fabrications.

I don't know if we need to grow cotton in the desert? I'm not advocating that we do. Just pointing out a non-political fact that, that's where the water goes. I don't know if there are other crops that are a necessity item, so much, that they are grown in places where they are consuming resources and depleting the water supply? But there's a catch about profits and economics again, so it's not all about the oil companies?

Please read again, CALIFORNIA 39.56 million people, the water use was for CA vs Fracking in CA. I'd say maybe they should make laws that no new people can move to California because it's over populated and the resources can't supply the number of people. Maybe start moving people elsewhere? CA gets it's water from other states, which means those states are selling water or have water rights. Talk about profit and antiquated systems. 60% of the water that California uses, comes from outside of the state.

ps The "recession" isn't officially a recession, so the whole thread is based on a false premise.

I'm a fan of hybrid cars, until something better comes along. At least move in the right direction. I'm not a fan of burning fossil fuels and adding more pollution, or CO2 because nuclear makes waste. It's another bridge to the future and creating and discovering better ways to create the energy we need. I don't see how burning coal for electricity is a logical solution?

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on August 08, 2022, 11:38
Last week we were in the water tower in Lüneburg. There is a permanent exhibition there that deals with the topic of water consumption.

I photographed a few facts about water consumption there.

This is how much water is needed for the production and delivery of a product including the virtual* water consumption:

1 sheet of paper = 10 liters
1 cup of tea = 30 liters
1 roll = 80 liters
500 grams of strawberries = 140 liters
1 cup of coffee = 140 liters
30 grams of cheese = 150 liters
1 glass of orange juice = 170 liters
1 kilogram of tomatoes = 184 liters
1 glass of apple juice = 190 liters
1 egg = 200 liters
1 liter of beer = 300 liters
1 half liter milk = 500 liters
100 grams of cotton = 1100 liters
1 kilogram sugar = 1500 liters
1 bar of chocolate = 1700 liters
1 cotton T-shirt = 2500 liters
1 blue jeans = 11000 liters
1 kilogram of beef = 15450 liters
1 personal computer = 20000 liters

Some examples on water consumption per capita per day of individual countries in 2018, source statista.com:

- Estonia = 3717 liters
- USA = 3306 liters
- Greece = 2635 liters
- Australia = 1926 liters
- Spain = 1836 liters
- China = 1150 liters
- France = 1142 liters
- Germany = 814 liters

* The actual water consumption looks different, because not only the direct water consumption is calculated, but also the water used for production, cleaning, disposal etc. of the products - also of the products which are produced for a country abroad. Examples from the exhibit for total water consumption per capita per day in liters:

- USA = 6800 liters
- Spain = 6365 liters
- Germany = 4230 liters
- India = 2680 liters
- China = 1920 liters
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on August 08, 2022, 12:31
false equivalence - first, there are 320 MILLION people, and B, fracking is a choice, not a necessity

Not really!
There are still many villages in Europe with waterless toilets in the backyard. Even in the USA, the Amish community is still using them. :P
Moreover, those waterless toilets are eco-friendly, since their content is used as a natural fertilizer. Makes you wonder why they are not more popular among activists. Hmm... 🤔
Also in the Rroma tradition, homes shouldn't be "soiled" by a toilet, and even though water is available in the kitchen, many still chose to have their toilets in the backyard.

So water toilets are not a necessity for life. It's a choice, a comfort enhancer, a part of our modern lives, a part of the "civilized society", the same as electricity (produced through fracking)  ;)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 08, 2022, 12:40
...the claim is that Fracking causes droughts and a water shortage...

Never, ever heard this argument. Are you sure that isn't just a strawman put up by pro fracking people?
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 08, 2022, 13:34
You guys just don't get it. When my parents were born there were 2.3 billion people on this planet. When I was born there were 3.8 billion people. Now there are 7.9 billion people on the planet. And we wish everyone a good life. So what does this do to our consumption and climate then?
You can do all the little things you do and want but maybe it's time to shout at Africa and the Middle-East to stop f**ing like bunny's. Because they are exploding with putting more people on this planet day by day, with their needs and thus their CO2 footprint if you will.
The will need food, water, electricity and leisure as cars, holidays etc.... You do the sum.
Growing number of people is the problem not the people perse.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on August 08, 2022, 14:40
You guys just don't get it. When my parents were born there were 2.3 billion people on this planet. When I was born there were 3.8 billion people. Now there are 7.9 billion people on the planet. And we wish everyone a good life. So what does this do to our consumption and climate then?
You can do all the little things you do and want but maybe it's time to shout at Africa and the Middle-East to stop f**ing like bunny's. Because they are exploding with putting more people on this planet day by day, with their needs and thus their CO2 footprint if you will.
The will need food, water, electricity and leisure as cars, holidays etc.... You do the sum.
Growing number of people is the problem not the people perse.

This statement that we have far too many people for this small planet with its limited resources is correct at first.

But if everyone would live like most Africans and not like you, then we would not have endless problems. It is incredibly arrogant to make such a statement as a child of a western industrialized country - if you have grown up in all the resource-consuming prosperity, like you.

First, you can be quite sure that everyone reading along here is fully aware of the problem of overpopulation and does not need your incredible wisdom ("You just don't get it) and insight.

Secondly, I find - and I have really never written anything like this here before - absolutely unacceptable when a child who grew up in Western prosperity - and this prosperity was based on the merciless exploitation of the countries which are still poor today - says that these people exploited by all of us do not have the right to multiply! This is really underground!!! This thought system might originate so or similarly still from the times of the slavery where the "supermen" were of the opinion to be allowed to tell the "submen" what they are allowed to do or should do in their life.

You should think once about it whether it would not be better if there would not be you instead of 10 new people in the countries of which you write.

Example:

If all humans would live in such a way, like the US Americans, we would need for our consumption over 5 earths, for me as a German 3 earths.

If everyone would live like the Afghans, we would need only 0.4 earths.

Now you come and write that these people from Africa and the Middle East want to live like us in the future. That is their right. Meanwhile, we will celebrate a family party in space for our pleasure, wasting vast amounts of resources.

Maybe you should question if maybe you are the person who doesn't get it.


Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 08, 2022, 14:44
Population looks to be levelling off around 10 billion. There's enough for everyone if we curb our greed.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 08, 2022, 15:32

But if everyone would live like most Africans and not like you, then we would not have endless problems.
So everybody poor and starving. That is your solution?

Quote
these people exploited by all of us do not have the right to multiply

I did not say that, that is your political correct storted thinking. But it is a fact that while Western Nations are not growing and even shrinking they are growing enormously. So you cry about what we are doing and not even considering to say,"hey guys maybe it's not so wise to multilpy this much". There is no activism whatsoever to stop this huge problem but it is really a problem for the world community as a whole. You have to speak up to everyone in this world and not the mere 1 billion people in the West to overcome things, it will not be enough. You can live by your guilt, as a German, and you should actually, messing up two times in recent history, but it will not help to stay in this politcally correct posture. Even Africans and Middle East people are just normal people, like you and I. There is no wrong doing in telling them to back off a bit with this people breeding. You however, still think they are pittyful and that is actually very, and very,  racist, because you don't respect them at all or give them absolutely any worth, because after all you think they are all poor fools, who are nothing and can do nothing, right?

And then you get mad at me? While you are whining that stock companies don't pay you right.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 08, 2022, 15:34
Population looks to be levelling off around 10 billion. There's enough for everyone if we curb our greed.
Wishful thinking. I have seen the numbers and they always come in way to low. Decade after decade. And there is not enough. It isn't even now as it was 30 years ago.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on August 08, 2022, 16:27
Population looks to be levelling off around 10 billion. There's enough for everyone if we curb our greed.

Your post reminded me of plastics. Another major issue with over-consumption. The other day, I saw an ad from a company producing plastic from seaweed - UK based, Notpla. Refer more here:

https://changestarted.com/companies-that-create-seaweed-plastic-alternatives/

Quote
In 1862 English metallurgist Alexander Parkes developed the first man-made plastic from cellulose. After 45 years in 1907, the first fossil-fuel plastic is produced using formaldehyde and coal byproducts. Over the years, the plastic discovery was heralded as an innovation, plastic packaging was given a red carpet welcome and became ubiquitous in our lifestyle.

After 90 years, one more discovery proved that all is not well with this innovation, when in 1997 Charles Moore discovered the Great Pacific Garbage Patch – a huge concentration of plastic waste floating in the pacific ocean.

Since then the menace of plastic waste has only grown in size. Mainly because of limited alternatives to plastic packaging, we continue to produce millions of tonnes of plastic to store, transport and protect our products. In that, only a minuscule proportion is collected or recycled, and the rest find their way into the ocean.

The existence of plastic waste is now found in almost all parts of our planet and even in our bodies.

Along with plastic pollution, plastic is produced using petrol and fossil fuel, thereby significantly contributing to climate change. As per a report by 2030, emissions from the plastics industry in the U.S. could overtake emissions from coal power plants.


However, there is a much better solution from something we don't even have to cultivate - seaweed.  We just have to think smarter.

Quote
One recent addition to the list of its environmentally significant use cases is seaweed plastic alternatives. A slew of biotech companies have entered this space and are developing sustainable and biodegradable plastic packaging using seaweed.


Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on August 08, 2022, 16:49

But if everyone would live like most Africans and not like you, then we would not have endless problems.
So everybody poor and starving. That is your solution?

Quote
these people exploited by all of us do not have the right to multiply

I did not say that, that is your political correct storted thinking. But it is a fact that while Western Nations are not growing and even shrinking they are growing enormously. So you cry about what we are doing and not even considering to say,"hey guys maybe it's not so wise to multilpy this much". There is no activism whatsoever to stop this huge problem but it is really a problem for the world community as a whole. You have to speak up to everyone in this world and not the mere 1 billion people in the West to overcome things, it will not be enough. You can live by your guilt, as a German, and you should actually, messing up two times in recent history, but it will not help to stay in this politcally correct posture. Even Africans and Middle East people are just normal people, like you and I. There is no wrong doing in telling them to back off a bit with this people breeding. You however, still think they are pittyful and that is actually very, and very,  racist, because you don't respect them at all or give them absolutely any worth, because after all you think they are all poor fools, who are nothing and can do nothing, right?

And then you get mad at me? While you are whining that stock companies don't pay you right.


??

I read in your post „… but maybe it's time to shout at Africa and the Middle-East to stop f**ing like bunny's“.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on August 09, 2022, 12:44
...the claim is that Fracking causes droughts and a water shortage...

Never, ever heard this argument. Are you sure that isn't just a strawman put up by pro fracking people?
Fracking consumes a massive amount of water. In the United States, the average can run between 1.5 million and 9.7 million gallons of water to frack a single well, according to the United States Geological Survey (USGS)

Fracking has been blamed for leaking millions of tons of methane, a greenhouse gas more potent than carbon dioxide.
Fracking is also associated with other airborne hydrocarbons that can cause health and respiratory issues.https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on August 09, 2022, 12:49
 
 ...

Now you come and write that these people from Africa and the Middle East want to live like us in the future. That is their right. Meanwhile, we will celebrate a family party in space for our pleasure, wasting vast amounts of resources.

there is an upside to developing - the higher the level of a woman’s educational attainment, the fewer children she is likely to bear. 
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on August 09, 2022, 12:52
.... You can live by your guilt, as a German, and you should actually, messing up two times in recent history, but it will not help to stay in this politcally correct posture. ...

this lightly veiled insult is disgusting!  bringing up 80 yr old history only makes your position worse
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on August 09, 2022, 12:56
 
However, there is a much better solution from something we don't even have to cultivate - seaweed.  We just have to think smarter.

Quote
One recent addition to the list of its environmentally significant use cases is seaweed plastic alternatives. A slew of biotech companies have entered this space and are developing sustainable and biodegradable plastic packaging using seaweed.

seaweed is also edible!

I recently visited the Floriade outside Amsterdam   the 'natural house' displayed building technologies using fungi, bacteria and other surprising natural sources https://mogu.bio/mogu-floriade-expo-2022/
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on August 09, 2022, 14:45
 
However, there is a much better solution from something we don't even have to cultivate - seaweed.  We just have to think smarter.

Quote
One recent addition to the list of its environmentally significant use cases is seaweed plastic alternatives. A slew of biotech companies have entered this space and are developing sustainable and biodegradable plastic packaging using seaweed.

seaweed is also edible!

I recently visited the Floriade outside Amsterdam   the 'natural house' displayed building technologies using fungi, bacteria and other surprising natural sources https://mogu.bio/mogu-floriade-expo-2022/ (https://mogu.bio/mogu-floriade-expo-2022/)

Yes, exactly!

That's why Notpla, mentioned above, first drew my attention. Their main product is designed to replace single-use plastics. They gave out their drink 'capsules' at the London marathon to the runners, who could just easily eat the whole thing. Absolutely no waste.

 https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/qatch/this-startup-makes-packaging-from-seaweed/vi-AAQ2YOZ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/qatch/this-startup-makes-packaging-from-seaweed/vi-AAQ2YOZ)

Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: ShadySue on August 09, 2022, 19:52
My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?  ;)

Well, yes, to an extent: but like here, it seems that most water in the US is wasted in leakage before it ever reaches the taps:
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459 (https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459)
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 10, 2022, 01:20
...the claim is that Fracking causes droughts and a water shortage...

Never, ever heard this argument. Are you sure that isn't just a strawman put up by pro fracking people?
Fracking consumes a massive amount of water. In the United States, the average can run between 1.5 million and 9.7 million gallons of water to frack a single well, according to the United States Geological Survey (USGS)

Fracking has been blamed for leaking millions of tons of methane, a greenhouse gas more potent than carbon dioxide.
Fracking is also associated with other airborne hydrocarbons that can cause health and respiratory issues.https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp)
Thanks. I thought it was about the chemicals pumped into the water table and other environmental concerns. Chemicals the companies often refuse to even reveal because it's "commercially sensitive".
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 10, 2022, 02:52
My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?  ;)

Well, yes, to an extent: but like here, it seems that most water in the US is wasted in leakage before it ever reaches the taps:
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459 (https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459)

Same in the UK. Water companies are responsible for loads of wastage through leaks but try to blame consumers. Also there have been warnings for decades that a lot more infrastructure is needed (reservoirs for example) but water companies, who are basically monopolies, refuse to make the investments and instead continue paying out dividends and maximising profits. I mean of course they do, where’s the incentive/ reason to do anything else. The government (read public) will have to bail them out eventually when things become unlivable.

EDIT: sorry just saw the "like here" you obviously know the situation in the UK too
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Wilm on August 10, 2022, 03:34
Since 2012, there have been studies that conclude that it is not just the issue of water that is a problem with fracking, but the release of methane. There are studies that conclude that fracking gas could have a worse climate footprint than coal, for example.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/fracking-boom-tied-to-methane-spike-in-earths-atmosphere (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/fracking-boom-tied-to-methane-spike-in-earths-atmosphere)

Whether this is true or influenced by some vested interests, I don't know either, of course.

Here in Europe, there are other problems with energy supply.
Norway wants to supply less green power to the EU. The green power there is largely generated from hydropower. Since there is severe drought, there is now very little water in the dams and reservoirs.

In France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany and other countries, the rivers are now at extremely low water levels and are beginning to dry up. The remaining water is heating up due to the heat waves. This leads to cooling problems of the power plants (nuclear power plants, coal-fired power plants). The output has to be reduced or the power plants shut down. Gas-fired power plants are affected to a lesser extent because they require less cooling water.
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: ShadySue on August 10, 2022, 07:26
My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?  ;)

Well, yes, to an extent: but like here, it seems that most water in the US is wasted in leakage before it ever reaches the taps:
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459 (https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459)

Same in the UK. Water companies are responsible for loads of wastage through leaks but try to blame consumers. Also there have been warnings for decades that a lot more infrastructure is needed (reservoirs for example) but water companies, who are basically monopolies, refuse to make the investments and instead continue paying out dividends and maximising profits. I mean of course they do, where’s the incentive/ reason to do anything else. The government (read public) will have to bail them out eventually when things become unlivable.

EDIT: sorry just saw the "like here" you obviously know the situation in the UK too

There's a timely cartoon in the Eye which has just dropped in. Bloke is standing in his front garden where there's a 'spout'. Bloke from Southern Water is handing him a fine. Bloke says "I'm not using a sprinkler. It's one of your leaks".
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 10, 2022, 07:53
There's a timely cartoon in the Eye which has just dropped in. Bloke is standing in his front garden where there's a 'spout'. Bloke from Southern Water is handing him a fine. Bloke says "I'm not using a sprinkler. It's one of your leaks".

I still subscribe to the Eye because I want to support their reporting but most issues remain unopened. I get too depressed reading it. I like to pretend the UK is less corrupt than the US. Reading the Eye made me realise if anything we are worse and our media and establishment is so thoroughly bought out we don’t get to hear about it 99% of the time. At least some parts of the US aren’t entirely dominated by FOX  :(
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Zero Talent on August 10, 2022, 08:15
Since 2012, there have been studies that conclude that it is not just the issue of water that is a problem with fracking, but the release of methane. There are studies that conclude that fracking gas could have a worse climate footprint than coal, for example.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/fracking-boom-tied-to-methane-spike-in-earths-atmosphere (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/fracking-boom-tied-to-methane-spike-in-earths-atmosphere)

Whether this is true or influenced by some vested interests, I don't know either, of course.


As I said before, anti-fracking activists tend to compare fracking to green energy, instead of comparing it to conventional drilling. Apple and Oranges.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/fracking-gas-leaks-no-worse-than-at-conventional-wells/ (https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/fracking-gas-leaks-no-worse-than-at-conventional-wells/)

"Calculated as a percentage of production, the fracked wells were far less leaky. The conventional wells ranged from 0.35 percent to a nightmarish 91 percent for an average of 10.5 percent leakage"

Banning fracking and nuclear, while reopening coal plants and building gas pipes to Russia, is bad for the climate and for humanity!
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 10, 2022, 08:18
.... You can live by your guilt, as a German, and you should actually, messing up two times in recent history, but it will not help to stay in this politcally correct posture. ...

this lightly veiled insult is disgusting!  bringing up 80 yr old history only makes your position worse

So it is ok, according to you, that Wilm compares me with slave drivers for no reason at all because he thinks he reads something in my post that isn't there:

This thought system might originate so or similarly still from the times of the slavery where the "supermen" were of the opinion to be allowed to tell the "submen" what they are allowed to do or should do in their life.

And you also think it's just fine when Wilm wished I didn't exist and he rather had ten people else then me on this earth:

You should think once about it whether it would not be better if there would not be you instead of 10 new people in the countries of which you write.

And then I can't pinch him back a little with his German heritage (using the same thinking and reasoning as he does)?

And what position are you talking about? I'm just to here to make my own point like everyone else does. The personal insult came from Wilm.

So get over your self cascoly!
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: cascoly on August 10, 2022, 11:09
At least some parts of the US aren’t entirely dominated by FOX  :(

actually the % of viewers is low for all cable news -Fox, the leader, has only about 3-4 million viewers
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Milleflore on August 10, 2022, 15:15
At least some parts of the US aren’t entirely dominated by FOX  :(

actually the % of viewers is low for all cable news -Fox, the leader, has only about 3-4 million viewers
...
Title: Re: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves.
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 10, 2022, 19:38
At least some parts of the US aren’t entirely dominated by FOX  :(

actually the % of viewers is low for all cable news -Fox, the leader, has only about 3-4 million viewers

We don't have cable, which saves money and solves that problem. Over The Air, Hulu and Netflix - on a Roku. There's more but still, I won't pay $100 a month for 350 stations that I don't want to watch.

Here's a problem. Say we had the impossible and zero carbon emissions, starting in 2023. If I'm not doing some really bad math or terribly flawed logic, it would take until 2223 to adjust for the last 200 years of industrialization, pollution and carbon.

And for those into doom and gloom, many scientists have said, we are probably way past the tipping point, aka point of no return, for stopping the climate change, whatever that might eventually be. Models are adjusted every time we get more data and the previous models have been wrong. Terrible thought, but we just don't know.