Author Topic: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves. (Read 31784 times)

DroneNamibia · « **Reply #200 on:** August 07, 2022, 17:20 »

Quote from: Firn on July 31, 2022, 01:13

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 30, 2022, 15:05
The German government made another big political blunder when they decided to shutdown all their nuclear power plants, only to increase their dependency on Russian gas and oil.
That was as stupid as banning fracking.
Reopening coal power plants and validating Putin's war crimes is definitely the worst alternative: pollution is worsen and innocent people are dying.

I disagree. The political blunder the (past) German government did was not to decide to shutdown nuclear power plants and ban fraking - These were the right decisions. As long as we do not know what to do with our nuclear waste and as long as fracking poses a health and environmental risk due to toxic chemicals and water pollution these are no acceptable alternatives.
The big blunder the German government did was do decide to shutdown nuclear power plants and ban fraking, while not pushing renewable energy resources in a way that they could compensate for nuclear power and fracking.

Can you remind at what court of law was Putin convicted? Or is it your usual Zero truth statement?

Milleflore · « **Reply #201 on:** August 07, 2022, 17:21 »

Interesting to see this thread is still going. (oops, I just saw the last post - and no fighting please!)

Pete mentioned electric cars. If anyone is interested in electric vehicles and remember Ewan McGregor's Long Way Round series, they made another one called
Long Way Up (Apple TV) but this time with electric motorcycles. Up through South America to LA. Lots of challenges, great scenery, some fantastic drone shots, and - it may turn you off electric vehicles

- but very interesting to see how they manage it, especially in remote areas.

Here's the trailer.

https://youtu.be/611fw81BN98

Stock4Me · « **Reply #202 on:** August 07, 2022, 21:39 »

Quote from: Big Toe on August 07, 2022, 17:17

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 07, 2022, 13:55
Someone tell me, CO₂ is 0.0414% of the atmosphere and that's causing the climate to change? I never knew it was such a small number as 4/100th of 1 percent.

What is causing the climate change is the manmade increase in the CO2 concentration. The base line concentration of about 0.028% is also causing a greenhouse effect and together with some other gases is responsible for the Earth being a class M planet. Without any greenhouse effect, Earth would be an ice planet.

Five quadrillion tonnes of atmosphere, and .028% change causes all this destruction. Very fragile that such a small change can cause all these problems. How do we stop the change? 200 years of humans making co2 how can we reverse that?

cascoly · « **Reply #203 on:** August 08, 2022, 10:57 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 07, 2022, 13:55

... My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?

agriculture includes wasting water on crops in the wrong places - eg growing almonds in a desert & cotton "Production and processing of cotton uses a large amount of water. Some experts contend that cotton is the largest user of water among all agricultural commodities. Surface and ground waters are often diverted to irrigate cotton fields, leading to freshwater loss through evaporation, and inefficient water management."

not to mention lawns in deserts and along highway medians

Quote

...

That means residential toilets actually use almost 2,500 times as much water as fracking does..." California

false equivalence - first, there are 320 MILLION people, and B, fracking is a choice, not a necessity

Quote

...
Personally I'd rather deal with nuclear and the waste, and stop burning coal and making more pollution. I'd like to see more development of clean energy. Then as we make progress, stop using the temporary measures, which are better than the high pollution systems of old?

unfortunately we continue to let fossil fuel companies make obscene profits they use to buy congress, while not having to deal w the environmental consequences of their extraction

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #204 on:** August 08, 2022, 11:34 »

Quote from: cascoly on August 08, 2022, 10:57

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 07, 2022, 13:55
... My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?

agriculture includes wasting water on crops in the wrong places - eg growing almonds in a desert & cotton "Production and processing of cotton uses a large amount of water. Some experts contend that cotton is the largest user of water among all agricultural commodities. Surface and ground waters are often diverted to irrigate cotton fields, leading to freshwater loss through evaporation, and inefficient water management."

not to mention lawns in deserts and along highway medians
Quote
...

That means residential toilets actually use almost 2,500 times as much water as fracking does..." California

false equivalence - first, there are 320 MILLION people, and B, fracking is a choice, not a necessity

Quote
...
Personally I'd rather deal with nuclear and the waste, and stop burning coal and making more pollution. I'd like to see more development of clean energy. Then as we make progress, stop using the temporary measures, which are better than the high pollution systems of old?
unfortunately we continue to let fossil fuel companies make obscene profits they use to buy congress, while not having to deal w the environmental consequences of their extraction

Farming is farming, you managed to slip in lawns and medians? Let those turn brown. That's not agriculture is it? Whether fracking is a choice or not, the claim is that Fracking causes droughts and a water shortage, while flushing toilets and leaking waste by consumers, uses 2,500 times more water than fracking. If someone is going to attack fracking, it should be done with the truth and facts, not fabrications.

I don't know if we need to grow cotton in the desert? I'm not advocating that we do. Just pointing out a non-political fact that, that's where the water goes. I don't know if there are other crops that are a necessity item, so much, that they are grown in places where they are consuming resources and depleting the water supply? But there's a catch about profits and economics again, so it's not all about the oil companies?

Please read again, CALIFORNIA 39.56 million people, the water use was for CA vs Fracking in CA. I'd say maybe they should make laws that no new people can move to California because it's over populated and the resources can't supply the number of people. Maybe start moving people elsewhere? CA gets it's water from other states, which means those states are selling water or have water rights. Talk about profit and antiquated systems. 60% of the water that California uses, comes from outside of the state.

ps The "recession" isn't officially a recession, so the whole thread is based on a false premise.

I'm a fan of hybrid cars, until something better comes along. At least move in the right direction. I'm not a fan of burning fossil fuels and adding more pollution, or CO2 because nuclear makes waste. It's another bridge to the future and creating and discovering better ways to create the energy we need. I don't see how burning coal for electricity is a logical solution?

Wilm · « **Reply #205 on:** August 08, 2022, 11:38 »

Last week we were in the water tower in Lüneburg. There is a permanent exhibition there that deals with the topic of water consumption.

I photographed a few facts about water consumption there.

This is how much water is needed for the production and delivery of a product including the virtual* water consumption:

1 sheet of paper = 10 liters
1 cup of tea = 30 liters
1 roll = 80 liters
500 grams of strawberries = 140 liters
1 cup of coffee = 140 liters
30 grams of cheese = 150 liters
1 glass of orange juice = 170 liters
1 kilogram of tomatoes = 184 liters
1 glass of apple juice = 190 liters
1 egg = 200 liters
1 liter of beer = 300 liters
1 half liter milk = 500 liters
100 grams of cotton = 1100 liters
1 kilogram sugar = 1500 liters
1 bar of chocolate = 1700 liters
1 cotton T-shirt = 2500 liters
1 blue jeans = 11000 liters
1 kilogram of beef = 15450 liters
1 personal computer = 20000 liters

Some examples on water consumption per capita per day of individual countries in 2018, source statista.com:

- Estonia = 3717 liters
- USA = 3306 liters
- Greece = 2635 liters
- Australia = 1926 liters
- Spain = 1836 liters
- China = 1150 liters
- France = 1142 liters
- Germany = 814 liters

* The actual water consumption looks different, because not only the direct water consumption is calculated, but also the water used for production, cleaning, disposal etc. of the products - also of the products which are produced for a country abroad. Examples from the exhibit for total water consumption per capita per day in liters:

- USA = 6800 liters
- Spain = 6365 liters
- Germany = 4230 liters
- India = 2680 liters
- China = 1920 liters

Zero Talent · « **Reply #206 on:** August 08, 2022, 12:31 »

Quote from: cascoly on August 08, 2022, 10:57

false equivalence - first, there are 320 MILLION people, and B, fracking is a choice, not a necessity

Not really!
There are still many villages in Europe with waterless toilets in the backyard. Even in the USA, the Amish community is still using them.

Moreover, those waterless toilets are eco-friendly, since their content is used as a natural fertilizer. Makes you wonder why they are not more popular among activists. Hmm... 🤔
Also in the Rroma tradition, homes shouldn't be "soiled" by a toilet, and even though water is available in the kitchen, many still chose to have their toilets in the backyard.

So water toilets are not a necessity for life. It's a choice, a comfort enhancer, a part of our modern lives, a part of the "civilized society", the same as electricity (produced through fracking)

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #207 on:** August 08, 2022, 12:40 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 08, 2022, 11:34

...the claim is that Fracking causes droughts and a water shortage...

Never, ever heard this argument. Are you sure that isn't just a strawman put up by pro fracking people?

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #208 on:** August 08, 2022, 13:34 »

You guys just don't get it. When my parents were born there were 2.3 billion people on this planet. When I was born there were 3.8 billion people. Now there are 7.9 billion people on the planet. And we wish everyone a good life. So what does this do to our consumption and climate then?
You can do all the little things you do and want but maybe it's time to shout at Africa and the Middle-East to stop f**ing like bunny's. Because they are exploding with putting more people on this planet day by day, with their needs and thus their CO2 footprint if you will.
The will need food, water, electricity and leisure as cars, holidays etc.... You do the sum.
Growing number of people is the problem not the people perse.

Wilm · « **Reply #209 on:** August 08, 2022, 14:40 »

Quote from: SVH on August 08, 2022, 13:34

You guys just don't get it. When my parents were born there were 2.3 billion people on this planet. When I was born there were 3.8 billion people. Now there are 7.9 billion people on the planet. And we wish everyone a good life. So what does this do to our consumption and climate then?
You can do all the little things you do and want but maybe it's time to shout at Africa and the Middle-East to stop f**ing like bunny's. Because they are exploding with putting more people on this planet day by day, with their needs and thus their CO2 footprint if you will.
The will need food, water, electricity and leisure as cars, holidays etc.... You do the sum.
Growing number of people is the problem not the people perse.

This statement that we have far too many people for this small planet with its limited resources is correct at first.

But if everyone would live like most Africans and not like you, then we would not have endless problems. It is incredibly arrogant to make such a statement as a child of a western industrialized country - if you have grown up in all the resource-consuming prosperity, like you.

First, you can be quite sure that everyone reading along here is fully aware of the problem of overpopulation and does not need your incredible wisdom ("You just don't get it) and insight.

Secondly, I find - and I have really never written anything like this here before - absolutely unacceptable when a child who grew up in Western prosperity - and this prosperity was based on the merciless exploitation of the countries which are still poor today - says that these people exploited by all of us do not have the right to multiply! This is really underground!!! This thought system might originate so or similarly still from the times of the slavery where the "supermen" were of the opinion to be allowed to tell the "submen" what they are allowed to do or should do in their life.

You should think once about it whether it would not be better if there would not be you instead of 10 new people in the countries of which you write.

Example:

If all humans would live in such a way, like the US Americans, we would need for our consumption over 5 earths, for me as a German 3 earths.

If everyone would live like the Afghans, we would need only 0.4 earths.

Now you come and write that these people from Africa and the Middle East want to live like us in the future. That is their right. Meanwhile, we will celebrate a family party in space for our pleasure, wasting vast amounts of resources.

Maybe you should question if maybe you are the person who doesn't get it.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #210 on:** August 08, 2022, 14:44 »

Population looks to be levelling off around 10 billion. There's enough for everyone if we curb our greed.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #211 on:** August 08, 2022, 15:32 »

Quote from: Wilm on August 08, 2022, 14:40

But if everyone would live like most Africans and not like you, then we would not have endless problems.

So everybody poor and starving. That is your solution?

Quote

these people exploited by all of us do not have the right to multiply

I did not say that, that is your political correct storted thinking. But it is a fact that while Western Nations are not growing and even shrinking they are growing enormously. So you cry about what we are doing and not even considering to say,"hey guys maybe it's not so wise to multilpy this much". There is no activism whatsoever to stop this huge problem but it is really a problem for the world community as a whole. You have to speak up to everyone in this world and not the mere 1 billion people in the West to overcome things, it will not be enough. You can live by your guilt, as a German, and you should actually, messing up two times in recent history, but it will not help to stay in this politcally correct posture. Even Africans and Middle East people are just normal people, like you and I. There is no wrong doing in telling them to back off a bit with this people breeding. You however, still think they are pittyful and that is actually very, and very, racist, because you don't respect them at all or give them absolutely any worth, because after all you think they are all poor fools, who are nothing and can do nothing, right?

And then you get mad at me? While you are whining that stock companies don't pay you right.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #212 on:** August 08, 2022, 15:34 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on August 08, 2022, 14:44

Population looks to be levelling off around 10 billion. There's enough for everyone if we curb our greed.

Wishful thinking. I have seen the numbers and they always come in way to low. Decade after decade. And there is not enough. It isn't even now as it was 30 years ago.

Milleflore · « **Reply #213 on:** August 08, 2022, 16:27 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on August 08, 2022, 14:44

Population looks to be levelling off around 10 billion. There's enough for everyone if we curb our greed.

Your post reminded me of plastics. Another major issue with over-consumption. The other day, I saw an ad from a company producing plastic from seaweed - UK based, Notpla. Refer more here:

https://changestarted.com/companies-that-create-seaweed-plastic-alternatives/

Quote

In 1862 English metallurgist Alexander Parkes developed the first man-made plastic from cellulose. After 45 years in 1907, the first fossil-fuel plastic is produced using formaldehyde and coal byproducts. Over the years, the plastic discovery was heralded as an innovation, plastic packaging was given a red carpet welcome and became ubiquitous in our lifestyle.

After 90 years, one more discovery proved that all is not well with this innovation, when in 1997 Charles Moore discovered the Great Pacific Garbage Patch – a huge concentration of plastic waste floating in the pacific ocean.

Since then the menace of plastic waste has only grown in size. Mainly because of limited alternatives to plastic packaging, we continue to produce millions of tonnes of plastic to store, transport and protect our products. In that, only a minuscule proportion is collected or recycled, and the rest find their way into the ocean.

The existence of plastic waste is now found in almost all parts of our planet and even in our bodies.

Along with plastic pollution, plastic is produced using petrol and fossil fuel, thereby significantly contributing to climate change. As per a report by 2030, emissions from the plastics industry in the U.S. could overtake emissions from coal power plants.

However, there is a much better solution from something we don't even have to cultivate - seaweed. We just have to think smarter.

Quote

One recent addition to the list of its environmentally significant use cases is seaweed plastic alternatives. A slew of biotech companies have entered this space and are developing sustainable and biodegradable plastic packaging using seaweed.

Wilm · « **Reply #214 on:** August 08, 2022, 16:49 »

Quote from: SVH on August 08, 2022, 15:32

Quote from: Wilm on August 08, 2022, 14:40

But if everyone would live like most Africans and not like you, then we would not have endless problems.
So everybody poor and starving. That is your solution?

Quote
these people exploited by all of us do not have the right to multiply

I did not say that, that is your political correct storted thinking. But it is a fact that while Western Nations are not growing and even shrinking they are growing enormously. So you cry about what we are doing and not even considering to say,"hey guys maybe it's not so wise to multilpy this much". There is no activism whatsoever to stop this huge problem but it is really a problem for the world community as a whole. You have to speak up to everyone in this world and not the mere 1 billion people in the West to overcome things, it will not be enough. You can live by your guilt, as a German, and you should actually, messing up two times in recent history, but it will not help to stay in this politcally correct posture. Even Africans and Middle East people are just normal people, like you and I. There is no wrong doing in telling them to back off a bit with this people breeding. You however, still think they are pittyful and that is actually very, and very, racist, because you don't respect them at all or give them absolutely any worth, because after all you think they are all poor fools, who are nothing and can do nothing, right?

And then you get mad at me? While you are whining that stock companies don't pay you right.

??

I read in your post „… but maybe it's time to shout at Africa and the Middle-East to stop f**ing like bunny's“.

cascoly · « **Reply #215 on:** August 09, 2022, 12:44 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on August 08, 2022, 12:40

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 08, 2022, 11:34
...the claim is that Fracking causes droughts and a water shortage...

Never, ever heard this argument. Are you sure that isn't just a strawman put up by pro fracking people?

Fracking consumes a massive amount of water. In the United States, the average can run between 1.5 million and 9.7 million gallons of water to frack a single well, according to the United States Geological Survey (USGS)

Fracking has been blamed for leaking millions of tons of methane, a greenhouse gas more potent than carbon dioxide.
Fracking is also associated with other airborne hydrocarbons that can cause health and respiratory issues.https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp

cascoly · « **Reply #216 on:** August 09, 2022, 12:49 »

Quote from: Wilm on August 08, 2022, 14:40

...

Now you come and write that these people from Africa and the Middle East want to live like us in the future. That is their right. Meanwhile, we will celebrate a family party in space for our pleasure, wasting vast amounts of resources.

there is an upside to developing - the higher the level of a woman’s educational attainment, the fewer children she is likely to bear.

cascoly · « **Reply #217 on:** August 09, 2022, 12:52 »

Quote from: SVH on August 08, 2022, 15:32

.... You can live by your guilt, as a German, and you should actually, messing up two times in recent history, but it will not help to stay in this politcally correct posture. ...

this lightly veiled insult is disgusting! bringing up 80 yr old history only makes your position worse

cascoly · « **Reply #218 on:** August 09, 2022, 12:56 »

Quote from: Annie on August 08, 2022, 16:27

However, there is a much better solution from something we don't even have to cultivate - seaweed. We just have to think smarter.

Quote
One recent addition to the list of its environmentally significant use cases is seaweed plastic alternatives. A slew of biotech companies have entered this space and are developing sustainable and biodegradable plastic packaging using seaweed.

seaweed is also edible!

I recently visited the Floriade outside Amsterdam the 'natural house' displayed building technologies using fungi, bacteria and other surprising natural sources https://mogu.bio/mogu-floriade-expo-2022/

Milleflore · « **Reply #219 on:** August 09, 2022, 14:45 »

Quote from: cascoly on August 09, 2022, 12:56

Quote from: Annie on August 08, 2022, 16:27

However, there is a much better solution from something we don't even have to cultivate - seaweed. We just have to think smarter.

Quote
One recent addition to the list of its environmentally significant use cases is seaweed plastic alternatives. A slew of biotech companies have entered this space and are developing sustainable and biodegradable plastic packaging using seaweed.

seaweed is also edible!

I recently visited the Floriade outside Amsterdam the 'natural house' displayed building technologies using fungi, bacteria and other surprising natural sources https://mogu.bio/mogu-floriade-expo-2022/

Yes, exactly!

That's why Notpla, mentioned above, first drew my attention. Their main product is designed to replace single-use plastics. They gave out their drink 'capsules' at the London marathon to the runners, who could just easily eat the whole thing. Absolutely no waste.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/qatch/this-startup-makes-packaging-from-seaweed/vi-AAQ2YOZ

ShadySue · « **Reply #220 on:** August 09, 2022, 19:52 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 07, 2022, 13:55

My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?

Well, yes, to an extent: but like here, it seems that most water in the US is wasted in leakage before it ever reaches the taps:
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #221 on:** August 10, 2022, 01:20 »

Quote from: cascoly on August 09, 2022, 12:44

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on August 08, 2022, 12:40
Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 08, 2022, 11:34
...the claim is that Fracking causes droughts and a water shortage...

Never, ever heard this argument. Are you sure that isn't just a strawman put up by pro fracking people?
Fracking consumes a massive amount of water. In the United States, the average can run between 1.5 million and 9.7 million gallons of water to frack a single well, according to the United States Geological Survey (USGS)

Fracking has been blamed for leaking millions of tons of methane, a greenhouse gas more potent than carbon dioxide.
Fracking is also associated with other airborne hydrocarbons that can cause health and respiratory issues.https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/011915/what-are-effects-fracking-environment.asp

Thanks. I thought it was about the chemicals pumped into the water table and other environmental concerns. Chemicals the companies often refuse to even reveal because it's "commercially sensitive".

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #222 on:** August 10, 2022, 02:52 »

Quote from: ShadySue on August 09, 2022, 19:52

Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 07, 2022, 13:55
My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?

Well, yes, to an extent: but like here, it seems that most water in the US is wasted in leakage before it ever reaches the taps:
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459

Same in the UK. Water companies are responsible for loads of wastage through leaks but try to blame consumers. Also there have been warnings for decades that a lot more infrastructure is needed (reservoirs for example) but water companies, who are basically monopolies, refuse to make the investments and instead continue paying out dividends and maximising profits. I mean of course they do, where’s the incentive/ reason to do anything else. The government (read public) will have to bail them out eventually when things become unlivable.

EDIT: sorry just saw the "like here" you obviously know the situation in the UK too

Wilm · « **Reply #223 on:** August 10, 2022, 03:34 »

Since 2012, there have been studies that conclude that it is not just the issue of water that is a problem with fracking, but the release of methane. There are studies that conclude that fracking gas could have a worse climate footprint than coal, for example.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/fracking-boom-tied-to-methane-spike-in-earths-atmosphere

Whether this is true or influenced by some vested interests, I don't know either, of course.

Here in Europe, there are other problems with energy supply.
Norway wants to supply less green power to the EU. The green power there is largely generated from hydropower. Since there is severe drought, there is now very little water in the dams and reservoirs.

In France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Germany and other countries, the rivers are now at extremely low water levels and are beginning to dry up. The remaining water is heating up due to the heat waves. This leads to cooling problems of the power plants (nuclear power plants, coal-fired power plants). The output has to be reduced or the power plants shut down. Gas-fired power plants are affected to a lesser extent because they require less cooling water.

ShadySue · « **Reply #224 on:** August 10, 2022, 07:26 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on August 10, 2022, 02:52

Quote from: ShadySue on August 09, 2022, 19:52
Quote from: Uncle Pete on August 07, 2022, 13:55
My view of that is, people are the biggest use of water and wasting it. Unless anyone considers agriculture and growing food a waste of water? I mean, starve or flush you toilet, which would you choose?

Well, yes, to an extent: but like here, it seems that most water in the US is wasted in leakage before it ever reaches the taps:
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/up-to-50-of-water-lost-to-leaks-in-us-heres-how-we-stop-it-331459

Same in the UK. Water companies are responsible for loads of wastage through leaks but try to blame consumers. Also there have been warnings for decades that a lot more infrastructure is needed (reservoirs for example) but water companies, who are basically monopolies, refuse to make the investments and instead continue paying out dividends and maximising profits. I mean of course they do, where’s the incentive/ reason to do anything else. The government (read public) will have to bail them out eventually when things become unlivable.

EDIT: sorry just saw the "like here" you obviously know the situation in the UK too

There's a timely cartoon in the Eye which has just dropped in. Bloke is standing in his front garden where there's a 'spout'. Bloke from Southern Water is handing him a fine. Bloke says "I'm not using a sprinkler. It's one of your leaks".

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Author Topic: The Biden recession is coming. Brace yourselves. (Read 31784 times)

DroneNamibia

Milleflore

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cascoly

Uncle Pete

Wilm

Zero Talent

Justanotherphotographer

Just_to_inform_people2

Wilm

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Just_to_inform_people2

Just_to_inform_people2

Milleflore

Wilm

cascoly

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Milleflore

ShadySue

Justanotherphotographer

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