Author Topic: Envato want to be a reseller and makes the contributor to the seller!? (Read 46874 times)

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #25 on:** February 09, 2015, 18:11 »

Just look at the idiotic sales reporting that now shows up - no prices match anything the buyer sees as the price...

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2015, 04:29 »

I have uploaded some work to their market places and did okay with it. I never put much up because uploading was a real pain and rejections pretty random. Boy am I glad I never invested the time it would have taken to build a decent sized portfolio on there. What a bunch of clowns.

r2d2 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2015, 05:37 »

I have my portfolio now by email soft rejected.

Either they reconsider her new "platform presentation" or significantly reduce their commision.
60% Commision for a Marketplace is not justified.

if nothing changes, I will terminate Envato.

fujiko · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2015, 07:36 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 09, 2015, 18:11

Just look at the idiotic sales reporting that now shows up - no prices match anything the buyer sees as the price...

It is because of buyer fee scam.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2015, 10:47 »

Quote from: fujiko on February 10, 2015, 07:36

It is because of buyer fee scam.

I know it is, but that doesn't make the reports any more clear.

If I were really the seller, my "invoice" would show all the deductions from what the buyer paid - list price [minus] buyer fee [ minus] author fee [equals] what I actually receive from them. 64% in "fees" is pretty outrageous for a platform, IMO.

I wonder what the chances are that they'll come to their senses and drop this insane fiction now they've actually implemented it?

Tror · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2015, 07:00 »

Quote from: davidlee on February 10, 2015, 19:30

I hope this helps!

No. It does not.

You are still forcing many contributors to violate the law of their countries or to quit business with you. This is not just an accounting detail we are talking about. You are not even allowed to issue invoices in my name without being registered with local authorities and do the adequate paperwork.

Fairplay · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2015, 11:39 »

When I started selling my images I decided to use a nickname!
Now PD issue invoices with my real name without my permission!

PixelBytes · « **Reply #33 on:** February 11, 2015, 14:33 »

The due date for 1099s for 2014 is Feb 28. If you don't make up your mind about that you need to wait til 2015 reporting.

dirkr · « **Reply #34 on:** February 11, 2015, 14:35 »

Quote from: Fairplay on February 11, 2015, 11:39

When I started selling my images I decided to use a nickname!
Now PD issue invoices with my real name without my permission!

Which is in conflict with their own privacy policy.
Very unprofessional behaviour.

David, how about some comment on that?

jarih · « **Reply #35 on:** February 14, 2015, 05:29 »

Quote from: jarih on February 08, 2015, 08:14

It is so messy and illegal for EU contributor that I ask if they can put my portfolio offline until they fix those issues. If they can't do that, I think only solution is to close account.

I sent a query about week ago via [email protected] and still waiting a response.

dirkr · « **Reply #38 on:** February 17, 2015, 03:19 »

You are "in the process of updating" your privacy policy?
And that makes it ok to breach it now?
Are you serious???

And regarding the whole issue of platform vs. re-seller:
You have always acted exactly like an agency (you set the terms, you set the prices, you decide the content we sell via a review process, you process the money flow and we only get our share once a month, you have the contact to the buyer - not us).
No claiming you "always were" a platform is completely ridiculous.

And most important: I have read through many pages of discussions on your forum, but have not found a single explanation of why you are making those changes.

If you really insist on being a "platform" you have to

stop rejecting images for stupid reasons - essentially no review process
let us set the price
let us define the license terms
reduce your fees - 64% is way too much for a "platform"

If you don't do that, all your claims of being a platform are irrelevant, you are still a re-seller, however you call yourself.

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #39 on:** February 17, 2015, 03:40 »

Quote from: dirkr on February 17, 2015, 03:19

You are "in the process of updating" your privacy policy?
And that makes it ok to breach it now?
Are you serious???

And regarding the whole issue of platform vs. re-seller:
You have always acted exactly like an agency (you set the terms, you set the prices, you decide the content we sell via a review process, you process the money flow and we only get our share once a month, you have the contact to the buyer - not us).
No claiming you "always were" a platform is completely ridiculous.

And most important: I have read through many pages of discussions on your forum, but have not found a single explanation of why you are making those changes.

If you really insist on being a "platform" you have to
stop rejecting images for stupid reasons - essentially no review process
let us set the price
let us define the license terms
reduce your fees - 64% is way too much for a "platform"

If you don't do that, all your claims of being a platform are irrelevant, you are still a re-seller, however you call yourself.

Could not agree more +1000

Good post. I am afraid though that they wont give up any slice of the pie. PD went from being one of my favourite agencies to the levels of Deposit and Fotolia. I am not deleting my port as it took me too much heartache to get it up there, but I am not sending any new content.

jarih · « **Reply #40 on:** February 17, 2015, 04:27 »

Quote from: dirkr on February 17, 2015, 03:19

You are "in the process of updating" your privacy policy?
And that makes it ok to breach it now?
Are you serious???

And regarding the whole issue of platform vs. re-seller:
You have always acted exactly like an agency (you set the terms, you set the prices, you decide the content we sell via a review process, you process the money flow and we only get our share once a month, you have the contact to the buyer - not us).
No claiming you "always were" a platform is completely ridiculous.

And most important: I have read through many pages of discussions on your forum, but have not found a single explanation of why you are making those changes.

If you really insist on being a "platform" you have to
stop rejecting images for stupid reasons - essentially no review process
let us set the price
let us define the license terms
reduce your fees - 64% is way too much for a "platform"

If you don't do that, all your claims of being a platform are irrelevant, you are still a re-seller, however you call yourself.

Yep, did you read Cocomero's post and example:
http://themeforest.net/forums/thread/more-on-financial-tools-and-vat/161572?page=3

NON-Exclusive individual in Poland:
Net earnings: $36 – income tax $25,60 – vat on Author Fee $10,12 = $0,28 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, I have a business (VAT) and when I issue invoice.. I must collect VAT and perform to the tax authorities! I can't understand how Envato even can collect my VAT?

If my individual customer live in EU, I must collect customers (country) VAT.. what ever it is. That's why I close my symbiostock, it's so frustrating system.

I don't know what to do with Envato, I like it, but this is also frustrating.. all of this!

r2d2 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 17, 2015, 05:23 »

Quote from: Semmick Photo on February 17, 2015, 03:40

I am not deleting my port as it took me too much heartache to get it up there, but I am not sending any new content.

You can soft reject your portfolio by email. Then you can reactivate the entire portfolio at any time.

I have no other choice.
Tell a european tax authority that Envato paid VAT in you name but without proof...they laugh at you!

@Envato
1. How it is legally possible to pay VAT for another person in the EU?
2. What evidence (for the Envato has paid my VAT) should I submit my tax office?

fujiko · « **Reply #42 on:** February 17, 2015, 05:29 »

Quote from: davidlee on February 16, 2015, 17:45

We therefore issue an invoice as proof of purchase for the sale, and use limited author (and buyer) information to ensure the documents meet buyer needs.

It would have been valid with Envato information, no need to put author information on it but if you put author information, it can't be limited, some countries require seller TIN on invoices for it to be valid.

If you want to be a platform, do it right.
Apart from what dirkr said:
- Stop the double fee scam because its only purpose is to allow you to say you keep a smaller percentage from the sale but in truth you get two cuts.
- Pay each sale as it happens and then invoice the fee.
- Don' play games with VAT.

Fairplay · « **Reply #43 on:** February 17, 2015, 06:55 »

PD bring me 1% of my microstock income.
If they don't change their policy back to what it used to be, I will close my account very easy! I don't need troubles for $50 a month!

Pixart · « **Reply #44 on:** February 17, 2015, 10:52 »

I haven't submitted there, but I buy from them so I feel like I have a right to be a bit invested in this conversation.

what ? (edit - love the auto correct for naughty acronyms

)

Especially after recent announcements like this: http://www.microstockgroup.com/photodune/envato's-growth-in-2014/

They pull in a quarter billion dollars and try to work the system to pay less taxes at the expense of their artists? (edited again - they "paid out" a quarter billion, that means they collected a heck of a lot more than that!)

EmberMike · « **Reply #45 on:** February 19, 2015, 13:38 »

Seems very odd for a company to be sending out invoices in my name. Need to dig in to this more some time, but from what I'm reading, it sounds like I need to seriously re-evalate my relationship with Envato. If this works the way I'm imagining it will, Envato will report that I earned the full value of each sale and then I paid them some sort of fee for using their "platform". Which, give the various discounts and other variables involved, will amount to a major headache every year around tax time.

It's been bad enough dealing with their reluctance to set more reasonable prices and royalty rates, and the added hassle of this bizarre invoicing system doesn't help keep me interested in remaining on board.

EmberMike · « **Reply #46 on:** February 19, 2015, 13:52 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 04, 2015, 17:25

...I also sell via Creative Market and they (on site; haven't received anything from them for tax paperwork probably because I'm new to the site and earned so little in 2014) report total revenues and "Your earnings". Perhaps someone who has been there longer would know which numbers they report on 1099s...

CM doesn't issue 1099s (yet). I have no idea why not or how they get away with not doing it, but somehow they don't do it and aren't going to this year. Maybe next year.

When they do, they have stated that the 1099s will reflect our actual earnings, exactly what they paid us. Which is what Envato should be doing, but aren't.

And oddly enough, although Creative Market acts more like an agency than a marketplace, they take a far smaller cut of the money than Envato does.

With the two companies being fairly similar in many ways but being polar opposites in terms of non-exclusive royalty percentages paid and reasonable tax reporting practices, I'm inclined to feel like I'd rather pull the plug on Envato and hope that more and more business goes over to CM.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #47 on:** February 19, 2015, 14:13 »

I make couple hundred a month on photodune, but if they are going to report I made 60% more then I may have to drop them. I don't need the tax problems. Thats the kind of sh*t that gets you audited!

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #48 on:** February 19, 2015, 19:03 »

Quote from: EmberMike on February 19, 2015, 13:52

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 04, 2015, 17:25
...I also sell via Creative Market and they (on site; haven't received anything from them for tax paperwork probably because I'm new to the site and earned so little in 2014) report total revenues and "Your earnings". Perhaps someone who has been there longer would know which numbers they report on 1099s...

CM doesn't issue 1099s (yet). I have no idea why not or how they get away with not doing it, but somehow they don't do it and aren't going to this year. Maybe next year.

Funnily enough I got email from them this morning saying I had to go fill out a tax form to avoid income being withheld at 30%. Not sure if that means the 1099s are coming this year (I already have them from other agencies; generally the end of January is the target for these), but they're clearly looking at tax issues now.

MarcvsTvllivs · « **Reply #49 on:** February 20, 2015, 04:53 »

All I can say to all this is that one of the first things you learn as a lawyer is that just because people say that something is a certain way in a contract does not mean that's how it really is.

Just because your contract has a clause saying "this is freelancing and not employment" does not mean that employment law doesn't apply, no matter how much you want it to. And just because you say it's a marketplace and you don't owe sales tax does not make it so, either.

As a contributor to this "marketplace" I will not worry too much about this. These are people that walk like an agency and talk like an agency. They review the content, they brand it with their watermarks, they set the licenses as well as the prices, they process the payment, and so on and so on... Chances are, any judge and any tax authority will recognize them as an agency.

MicrostockGroup Sponsors

Author Topic: Envato want to be a reseller and makes the contributor to the seller!? (Read 46874 times)

Jo Ann Snover

Justanotherphotographer

r2d2

fujiko

Jo Ann Snover

davidlee

Tror

Fairplay

PixelBytes

dirkr

jarih

davidlee

davidlee

dirkr

Semmick Photo

jarih

r2d2

fujiko

Fairplay

Pixart

EmberMike

EmberMike

PixelBytes

Jo Ann Snover

MarcvsTvllivs

Related Topics

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors