Author Topic: Crisis at shutterstock (Read 23917 times)

kgtoh · « **Reply #25 on:** June 01, 2009, 14:38 »

Quote from: helix7 on June 01, 2009, 14:07

Shutterstock is a business, and we work for them. Like any other business, they can let us go at any time, for any reason. Try running your mouth at a regular office job like some people did in the forums and I don't think you'd be surprised to get fired from that job immediately.

We don't work for Shutterstock as employees.
Shutterstock sells our photos for us, and in that sense they act more as an agency than an employee.
It's a business relationship.
In business relationships, respect comes from both ends.

nebojsak · « **Reply #26 on:** June 01, 2009, 14:38 »

Exactly my thoughts.

Dook · « **Reply #27 on:** June 01, 2009, 14:47 »

Guys, you are quoting helix7 and he is from US. You must understand him, he DOES NOT CARE about your 30% taxes. So, dont get over excited and dont waste your time explaining this thing to people who already pay these taxes. We must concentrate to admins at SS. And there is Serbian forum at SS anyway. I hope all this matter will be solved soon.

Milinz · « **Reply #28 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:09 »

Quote from: Dook on June 01, 2009, 14:47

Guys, you are quoting helix7 and he is from US. You must understand him, he DOES NOT CARE about your 30% taxes. So, dont get over excited and dont waste your time explaining this thing to people who already pay these taxes. We must concentrate to admins at SS. And there is Serbian forum at SS anyway. I hope all this matter will be solved soon.

Wooohooo!

Easy dude!

No matter if it is serbian or croatian or argentinian forum... Still all authors from that countries will be DOUBLE TAXED and THAT IS THE MAIN PROBLEM!
FIRST they will withheld 30% for USA IRS due to that countries doesn't have signed tax treaty.

SECOND after authors get their money in their country, Government of that country will TAX THEM AGAIN with similar or even higher than 30% TAX... So, USA contributors as well as all those who fill in and get ITIN will have more earnings than NON-TREATY AUTHORS.

HELIX AND ALL REST - DO YOU COPY NOW?

IN CASE OF ALAMY OR CANADA companies that TAX is about 10% for most countries on this planet and UK and CANADA have signed treaties with almost all countries in the world.
That makes OFFSHORE business out of USA better for foreign contributors if USA Companies NEED THEM AT ALL... But, as stated in some political crap I've read USA IS SELF CONTENT and THEY DON'T NEED FOREIGNERS TO WORK ON THEIR MARKET!

Dook · « **Reply #29 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:14 »

Exactly, that is what I mean too, but your English is much better. All I am saying is - people who are not affected by this do not care.

helix7 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:22 »

Quote from: Dook on June 01, 2009, 14:47

Guys, you are quoting helix7 and he is from US. You must understand him, he DOES NOT CARE about your 30% taxes. So, dont get over excited and dont waste your time explaining this thing to people who already pay these taxes. We must concentrate to admins at SS. And there is Serbian forum at SS anyway. I hope all this matter will be solved soon.

I think you need to understand me before you advise anyone else to do so. Where did I ever say I didn't care about the extra taxes you guys would be paying?

My comments were about the behavior of those who protested the new policy. I think it sucks that you'll have to pay more taxes, but I also think that most people have gone about that protest completely wrong, and no one should be surprised by the response from SS regarding banning and account deletion.

You are right, you shouldn't be worried about explaining anything to me. You shouldn't even be taking this discussion to the forums and wasting your time trying to explain it to anyone. If you care that deeply about the issue and really want to try making a difference, get in direct contact with people at the SS offices.

Milinz · « **Reply #31 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:22 »

Since that tax is political protectivism against countries which don't comply to USA foreign policy, USA government will cover all possible loss in one practical way: PRINTING AIR DOLLARS.

So, YES - USA IS SELF CONTENT!

[EDIT]

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/05/25/obamas-proposed-irs-rules-mean-trouble-for-overseas-americans-will-also-lead-to-less-investment-in-america/

helix7 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:27 »

Quote from: Milinz on June 01, 2009, 15:09

...SECOND after authors get their money in their country, Government of that country will TAX THEM AGAIN with similar or even higher than 30% TAX... So, USA contributors as well as all those who fill in and get ITIN will have more earnings than NON-TREATY AUTHORS.

HELIX AND ALL REST - DO YOU COPY NOW?...

When did I become the enemy here? I never said I was for this new taxation. All I said was that you guys need to keep this dispute professional if you really want to get anything done. I really do hope that you are able to talk to SS and get something worked out. My whole post was simply about the misguided anger that has done nothing but make the situation worse. No silly avatars, no childish forum rants. Pick up the phone, write an email, act professionally if you want SS to take you seriously.

How that got translated into "Helix is against us," I'll never understand.

Milinz · « **Reply #33 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:31 »

Quote from: helix7 on June 01, 2009, 15:27

Quote from: Milinz on June 01, 2009, 15:09
...SECOND after authors get their money in their country, Government of that country will TAX THEM AGAIN with similar or even higher than 30% TAX... So, USA contributors as well as all those who fill in and get ITIN will have more earnings than NON-TREATY AUTHORS.

HELIX AND ALL REST - DO YOU COPY NOW?...

When did I become the enemy here? I never said I was for this new taxation. All I said was that you guys need to keep this dispute professional if you really want to get anything done. I really do hope that you are able to talk to SS and get something worked out. My whole post was simply about the misguided anger that has done nothing but make the situation worse. No silly avatars, no childish forum rants. Pick up the phone, write an email, act professionally if you want SS to take you seriously.

How that got translated into "Helix is against us," I'll never understand.

Dude I respect you very much. I just wanted to emphasize problem.
There is my edit on previous message and you've posted this your message in same time as I my edit... I added some link... So please see that link.

helix7 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:36 »

Quote from: Milinz on June 01, 2009, 15:31

Dude I respect you very much. I just wanted to emphasize problem.
There is my edit on previous message and you've posted this your message in same time as I my edit... I added some link... So please see that link.

Ah. Ok, I didn't see the link before. Now I think I understand what you were saying. Sorry about that.

melastmohican · « **Reply #35 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:39 »

Does anybody know what percentage of contributors is affected by this change? Maybe is not that high so instead calling it crisis it would be just major hiccup or unprepared announcement.

lisafx · « **Reply #36 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:40 »

Quote from: stockastic on June 01, 2009, 13:25

I agree with farhad. I'm not affected by the tax thing, but that "make my day" post, where he threatened to delete the portfolio of anyone who annoyed him, made me feel that by selling through SS I'm just helping some jerk get richer. People like this guy typically have no real interest in the long term - they want to make a bundle and move on. Knowing that a person like this is running one of the big agencies has reduced my interest in microstock overall. Yes I know there are jerks running a lot of corporations, but they don't usually throw it right in your face.

In nearly 5 years I have never seen anything from Jon like what is being described. I have found him to be level headed and helpful on the few times I have needed to contact him.

This is surprising and hard to evaluate without having read the post. I understand it has been deleted. Did anyone save a copy? I would like to read it and judge for myself.

Talanis · « **Reply #37 on:** June 01, 2009, 15:55 »

There is a copy in page 7 or 8 of the IRS thread here

lisafx · « **Reply #38 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:00 »

Quote from: Talanis on June 01, 2009, 15:55

There is a copy in page 7 or 8 of the IRS thread here

Thanks Talanis.

I thought I had read that whole thing. Guess I must have missed some pages in the middle...

ETA: Really?! That's a tirade??? Most of it seems very calm and well-reasoned. Only in #'s 3 and 5 does he talk about deleting portfolios.

I didn't read through the SS thread, but judging from some of the comments on this board questioning Jon's intelligence and competence it is somewhat understandable he would have lost patience.

And what he says in #7 about US contributors having already had to provide tax info it absolutely true. They have my W9 and tax ID on file for years and I get a form 1099 from them every year.

FWIW I also have gotten 1099's from non-US companies Dreamstime and Fotolia too.

Milinz · « **Reply #39 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:04 »

Quote from: lisafx on June 01, 2009, 15:40

Quote from: stockastic on June 01, 2009, 13:25
I agree with farhad. I'm not affected by the tax thing, but that "make my day" post, where he threatened to delete the portfolio of anyone who annoyed him, made me feel that by selling through SS I'm just helping some jerk get richer. People like this guy typically have no real interest in the long term - they want to make a bundle and move on. Knowing that a person like this is running one of the big agencies has reduced my interest in microstock overall. Yes I know there are jerks running a lot of corporations, but they don't usually throw it right in your face.

In nearly 5 years I have never seen anything from Jon like what is being described. I have found him to be level headed and helpful on the few times I have needed to contact him.

This is surprising and hard to evaluate without having read the post. I understand it has been deleted. Did anyone save a copy? I would like to read it and judge for myself.

I understand Johns reaction very well. It is produced from stress and there is nothing wrong in that. I also lead some much smaller company and I know how hard it may be to make some decisions. I wrote there some letter addressed to him and he read it and deleted. I expected that due he understood that was for him. Nothing wrong I was writen there except that about how hard is to be the one to make decisions and some ideas how to handle situation.

I am also mad when someone point anger at me with no reason becuse I must do what Government says I must do.

So, not SS is guilty for this problems, It is Government of USA and John could not have even dreamed that changing some tax aquisition can be such harrasment for SS and contributors.

Again I pointed to him that OFFSHORE is solution and that can't cost more than few to ten thousands of USD with leaving much more money for him and for SS contributors. The point is that he anticipates that idea and it is his right in decision making due SS is his company - not mine!

hqimages · « **Reply #40 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:08 »

The unedited version of what Jon said to his contributors for those who missed it, or are reading the revised version:

http://www.draiochtwebdesign.com/blog/shutterstock-drama

zymmetricaldotcom · « **Reply #41 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:15 »

Thanks Hilary, I spit out my coffee on the original, never thought to save it for reference. The internet never forgets.

kgtoh · « **Reply #42 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:16 »

The edited, modified, version was mistakenly posted here.
The original one is significantly different at point 3.

hqimages · « **Reply #43 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:18 »

Quote from: zymmetrical on June 01, 2009, 16:15

Thanks Hilary, I spit out my coffee on the original, never thought to save it for reference. The internet never forgets.

I saved it because, the line that read 'if you don't want to deal with it, leave', made me go yeah, it's time to go then

I just wanted to remember why i left in case I doubted my decision later!

Milinz · « **Reply #44 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:23 »

Quote from: kgtoh on June 01, 2009, 16:16

The edited, modified, version was mistakenly posted here.
The original one is significantly different at point 3.

Proof?

cidepix · « **Reply #45 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:31 »

Quote from: helix7 on June 01, 2009, 15:22

Quote from: Dook on June 01, 2009, 14:47
Guys, you are quoting helix7 and he is from US. You must understand him, he DOES NOT CARE about your 30% taxes. So, dont get over excited and dont waste your time explaining this thing to people who already pay these taxes. We must concentrate to admins at SS. And there is Serbian forum at SS anyway. I hope all this matter will be solved soon.

I think you need to understand me before you advise anyone else to do so. Where did I ever say I didn't care about the extra taxes you guys would be paying?

My comments were about the behavior of those who protested the new policy. I think it sucks that you'll have to pay more taxes, but I also think that most people have gone about that protest completely wrong, and no one should be surprised by the response from SS regarding banning and account deletion.

You are right, you shouldn't be worried about explaining anything to me. You shouldn't even be taking this discussion to the forums and wasting your time trying to explain it to anyone. If you care that deeply about the issue and really want to try making a difference, get in direct contact with people at the SS offices.

I don't think Jon handled the situation very well. There is no excuse for the kind of response they posted on the forum. They should keep it serious and official. If you saw the post by Jon, I am sure you know what I am talking about. That's definitely not a response I would have. If you are a guy sitting on multi-million dollars a year, you are expected to handle the case much better.

Opening post could be wrong in some ways but many people asked SS if they are going to provide an official document that they paid %30 to IRS and for a long time, there was no answer. Eventually someone said the deduction will be reflected on the balance and earnings page.

WRONG answer by SS. If you are deducting %30, you are bound to provide an official document from IRS so people can put it in their files to prevent being taxed by their local governments.

One more thing: nobody is going to sign-up for a new account knowing their earnings will be deducted by %30. SS is on the wrong path. You may disagree with me as much as you want, but SS is on a wrong path. I wonder what their sign-up page will tell to new potential contributors?

0.25 per download + %30 reduction for United States!

Ridiculous!

No newbie is going to sign up for that ridicule. Let's see if they are going to tell newbies the truth. I bet they won't.

United States law is very questionable as well. Why would someone pay %30 to US and not even being given a document confirming that he paid. I am in the UK and I hate the fact that I have to obtain a BS US reference number and give my info to any US governing body! I will probably provide the bloody number for the sake of business but I have to tell you I hate that fact as much as I can possibly hate it.

The OP is right when he asks, "Where was all this in the beginning?" Where was it when I signed up? I would not have signed up if I was told about it in advance. But I am not pulling away that quickly after spending a lot of time building a portfolio. I have the right to ask "why was I not informed in the beginning?"

cidepix · « **Reply #46 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:35 »

Jon's original reply is long gone and killed! I don't know if anybody has it around here. If you do post it please!

hqimages · « **Reply #47 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:39 »

Quote from: cidepix on June 01, 2009, 16:35

Jon's original reply is long gone and killed! I don't know if anybody has it around here. If you do post it please!

http://www.draiochtwebdesign.com/blog/shutterstock-drama

luceluceluce · « **Reply #48 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:45 »

So, if the consensus is that the tightening of the tax laws in international trade is a jolly good thing - shall i pop off and lobby the UK government to start automatic withholding of 30% royalties? The inland revenue are really lovely to deal with.

I don't think so. Because the Uk seems to be keeping with the spirit of the double taxation treaty. I like that. It helps everything flow.

The US,if the whole world is flowing around you, and you're all blocked up with paperwork.... is that really going to help your economy...? don't forget treaties already exist to prevent double taxation - other governments are not requiring foreigners to go through hoops to obtain what is rightfully theirs anyway...
x

cidepix · « **Reply #49 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:47 »

Quote from: hqimages on June 01, 2009, 16:39

Quote from: cidepix on June 01, 2009, 16:35
Jon's original reply is long gone and killed! I don't know if anybody has it around here. If you do post it please!

http://www.draiochtwebdesign.com/blog/shutterstock-drama

Thank you! I think this is pretty close if not exactly the same!

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Author Topic: Crisis at shutterstock (Read 23917 times)

kgtoh

nebojsak

Dook

Milinz

Dook

helix7

Milinz

helix7

Milinz

helix7

melastmohican

lisafx

Talanis

lisafx

Milinz

hqimages

zymmetricaldotcom

kgtoh

hqimages

Milinz

cidepix

cidepix

hqimages

luceluceluce

cidepix

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