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Author Topic: article on Adobe Creatice Cloud  (Read 8051 times)

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« on: February 08, 2014, 22:22 »
+1


ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2014, 22:31 »
+1
"If a designer ever stops paying the monthly fee to Adobe for whatever reason, after a 30 day grace period they will not be able to open or edit any previously created work."
This isn't completely true, it depends what format you save your work in. E.g. it's true if you save photos out as .psds, but not e.g. .tif or .jpg.
Think about it - it can be necesary in any situation for someone owning photoshop to be able to share files with people who use other software, or who want to put photos into Word, put them on Flickr, Fb or an agency as jpgs etc.

(Not defending the subscription model, but this is one of the commonest inaccuracies.)

« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2014, 23:04 »
0
its more of the cost structure they are really worried about

« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2014, 02:26 »
0
"If a designer ever stops paying the monthly fee to Adobe for whatever reason, after a 30 day grace period they will not be able to open or edit any previously created work."
This isn't completely true, it depends what format you save your work in. E.g. it's true if you save photos out as .psds, but not e.g. .tif or .jpg.
Think about it - it can be necesary in any situation for someone owning photoshop to be able to share files with people who use other software, or who want to put photos into Word, put them on Flickr, Fb or an agency as jpgs etc.

(Not defending the subscription model, but this is one of the commonest inaccuracies.)

There are all sorts of things you can't save any other way than in a PSD file. JPEG is fine for an output format, but that's really it. If you have a multi-layer 16 bit PSD file loaded with adjustment layers or smart objects the only way to preserve that is a PSD file. Most of the other apps that can open PSD files can't handle layers or only handle some types of layers.

My "forever" files are the RAW, the layered PSD files and JPEGs as uploaded. Almost all my work is represented in the PSD files and I can't get at that any other way than Photoshop CS6. I can and do go back to older files to steal bits, edit differently etc.

People pay the big bucks for Photoshop because their images matter. The technical truth that you can export in other formats doesn't hide the practical truth that without the PSD what you have is worth very little.

The article covers two aspects of the problems with CC - for the University it's the cost structure, for the students its that if they get on the hamster wheel of CC they're stuck paying and paying and paying.

Beppe Grillo

« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2014, 03:20 »
+1
"If a designer ever stops paying the monthly fee to Adobe for whatever reason, after a 30 day grace period they will not be able to open or edit any previously created work."
This isn't completely true, it depends what format you save your work in. E.g. it's true if you save photos out as .psds, but not e.g. .tif or .jpg.
Think about it - it can be necesary in any situation for someone owning photoshop to be able to share files with people who use other software, or who want to put photos into Word, put them on Flickr, Fb or an agency as jpgs etc.

(Not defending the subscription model, but this is one of the commonest inaccuracies.)

I can open any psd created with Photoshop CC with the previous Photoshop versions, I do it every day.
And I can open any psd created with previous photoshop versions with Photoshop CC, I do it every day too.

So I don't understand where is the problem?

« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 03:22 by Beppe Grillo »

« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2014, 04:21 »
0
"If a designer ever stops paying the monthly fee to Adobe for whatever reason, after a 30 day grace period they will not be able to open or edit any previously created work."
This isn't completely true, it depends what format you save your work in. E.g. it's true if you save photos out as .psds, but not e.g. .tif or .jpg.
Think about it - it can be necesary in any situation for someone owning photoshop to be able to share files with people who use other software, or who want to put photos into Word, put them on Flickr, Fb or an agency as jpgs etc.

(Not defending the subscription model, but this is one of the commonest inaccuracies.)

I can open any psd created with Photoshop CC with the previous Photoshop versions, I do it every day.
And I can open any psd created with previous photoshop versions with Photoshop CC, I do it every day too.

So I don't understand where is the problem?
I don't think the same applies to Illustrator files, you need ( I think) the current version to open a CS6 ai. or eps file.

« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2014, 04:39 »
+1
"If a designer ever stops paying the monthly fee to Adobe for whatever reason, after a 30 day grace period they will not be able to open or edit any previously created work."
This isn't completely true, it depends what format you save your work in. E.g. it's true if you save photos out as .psds, but not e.g. .tif or .jpg.
Think about it - it can be necesary in any situation for someone owning photoshop to be able to share files with people who use other software, or who want to put photos into Word, put them on Flickr, Fb or an agency as jpgs etc.

(Not defending the subscription model, but this is one of the commonest inaccuracies.)

I can open any psd created with Photoshop CC with the previous Photoshop versions, I do it every day.
And I can open any psd created with previous photoshop versions with Photoshop CC, I do it every day too.

So I don't understand where is the problem?
I don't think the same applies to Illustrator files, you need ( I think) the current version to open a CS6 ai. or eps file.
Give it time (2 years) and any file created with the adobe cloud will then only be available via another cloud version. Adobe's long term plan is to pull away from previous DVD versions of it's programs and make everybody subscribe to cloud. Remember QuarkXpress, if you had an old version (4.1) of a quark file and saved it in a newer version (passport), you couldn't go back. Oh, and you couldn't open and covert in indesign either. Nice way of trying to lock you in.

Beppe Grillo

« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2014, 05:06 »
+1
"If a designer ever stops paying the monthly fee to Adobe for whatever reason, after a 30 day grace period they will not be able to open or edit any previously created work."
This isn't completely true, it depends what format you save your work in. E.g. it's true if you save photos out as .psds, but not e.g. .tif or .jpg.
Think about it - it can be necesary in any situation for someone owning photoshop to be able to share files with people who use other software, or who want to put photos into Word, put them on Flickr, Fb or an agency as jpgs etc.

(Not defending the subscription model, but this is one of the commonest inaccuracies.)

I can open any psd created with Photoshop CC with the previous Photoshop versions, I do it every day.
And I can open any psd created with previous photoshop versions with Photoshop CC, I do it every day too.

So I don't understand where is the problem?
I don't think the same applies to Illustrator files, you need ( I think) the current version to open a CS6 ai. or eps file.

With Illustrator CC you can save your file in any previous version back to illustrator 3 (released in October 1990). Of course you will loose a lot of features ;)

btw there are 24 years that I listen and read these alarmist news about Adobe
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 05:17 by Beppe Grillo »

« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2014, 05:11 »
+1
This sounds like Blackmail.

It's like if I built a house with tools. And when the house is ready, the tool manufacturer takes the keys away - even if they have not built the house nor paid for it.

If there was a serious alternative to Photoshop, I would switch to it in a heartbeat.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 05:13 by Perry »

stockphotoeurope

« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2014, 10:20 »
0
If there was a serious alternative to Photoshop, I would switch to it in a heartbeat.

A combination of CorelDraw/PhotoPaint (Windows only, anyway) + Adobe Photoshop Elements + Lightroom is serious enough for me to avoid the cloud and even spend less. I don't even feel the need to have the latest version: upgrading to every other version is more than enough for me.

I am not saying it is for everyone. Things may be different for people working as employees or with clients. But I don't - this is the main reason for doing microstock anyway-, so I don't need to follow the de-facto industry standard.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 10:52 by stockphotoeurope »

« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2014, 11:31 »
0
I can understand the viewpoint of the school and the burden it places on students but aren't Adobe programs still used by a number of potential employers out there?  I can't help but wonder if it will hurt the student's chances of getting hired if they graduate in 4 years and don't have knowledge of Adobe tools more recent than CS6 era products.  I know if I was a student I would want to learn how to use the latest Adobe products as well as others to have on my resume.

« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2014, 11:46 »
0
I can understand the viewpoint of the school and the burden it places on students but aren't Adobe programs still used by a number of potential employers out there?  I can't help but wonder if it will hurt the student's chances of getting hired if they graduate in 4 years and don't have knowledge of Adobe tools more recent than CS6 era products.  I know if I was a student I would want to learn how to use the latest Adobe products as well as others to have on my resume.

That's why you pay your tuition. So, you can have nice computer labs to work in and relevant software to learn.

« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2014, 11:46 »
+1
If Adobe added significant features to the CC versions the students might be at a disadvantage, but the vast majority of what's really day-to-day important in PS is not new. They add little things (so far)

« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2014, 11:54 »
+1
"If a designer ever stops paying the monthly fee to Adobe for whatever reason, after a 30 day grace period they will not be able to open or edit any previously created work."
This isn't completely true, it depends what format you save your work in. E.g. it's true if you save photos out as .psds, but not e.g. .tif or .jpg.
Think about it - it can be necesary in any situation for someone owning photoshop to be able to share files with people who use other software, or who want to put photos into Word, put them on Flickr, Fb or an agency as jpgs etc.

(Not defending the subscription model, but this is one of the commonest inaccuracies.)

I can open any psd created with Photoshop CC with the previous Photoshop versions, I do it every day.
And I can open any psd created with previous photoshop versions with Photoshop CC, I do it every day too.

So I don't understand where is the problem?

The problem is if you only had the CC version and didn't own an older copy then you couldn't open your own files.  In five or ten years this will be true for almost everyone (unless you hold onto an older copy of PS forever as I intend to do).  At that point they can raise prices however high they want and people will have little recourse.  Renting essential software is not a great idea for consumers but great for putting more money into Adobe's pocket.  Good for the school to take a stand - if everyone else did the same they would be forced to change or it would make room for a competitor.

« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 12:52 »
0
If Adobe added significant features to the CC versions the students might be at a disadvantage, but the vast majority of what's really day-to-day important in PS is not new. They add little things (so far)

There were some nice features added to Illustrator in the last update. Live Corners kind of rock.

« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2014, 13:36 »
+1
But you can always save your work as a TIFF file with layers.

« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2014, 14:43 »
0
I can understand the viewpoint of the school and the burden it places on students but aren't Adobe programs still used by a number of potential employers out there?  I can't help but wonder if it will hurt the student's chances of getting hired if they graduate in 4 years and don't have knowledge of Adobe tools more recent than CS6 era products.  I know if I was a student I would want to learn how to use the latest Adobe products as well as others to have on my resume.

That's why you pay your tuition. So, you can have nice computer labs to work in and relevant software to learn.

Yes, but I understood them to say they are not updating the computer labs past CS6 so incoming students who are graduating in 4 years will only learn features on 4 year old Adobe software along with whatever new software they decide to promote.  If the general industry moves away from Adobe over that time it's less of an issue, but I would not want to pay tuition and  not learn current software that is commonly used in the industry.  I see it as a disadvantage if they are not current with the tools in CC 4 years from now.

« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2014, 15:13 »
0
Yes, but I understood them to say they are not updating the computer labs past CS6 so incoming students who are graduating in 4 years will only learn features on 4 year old Adobe software along with whatever new software they decide to promote.  If the general industry moves away from Adobe over that time it's less of an issue, but I would not want to pay tuition and  not learn current software that is commonly used in the industry.  I see it as a disadvantage if they are not current with the tools in CC 4 years from now.

Totally agree. That sounds like a disservice to their students.

« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 15:20 »
0
Right now, there's no problem - yet.  I save my originals in layered TIF's, so no PSD's needed (not even with adjustment layers or smart objects).  If I would stop my CC subscription next year, I can always go on working in my previous non-CC software, which was CS5.  However, in a few years, I'll buy a new PC, and this PC with probably run on a newer Windows version.  One day, my CS5 won't be compatible with WindowsXXX anymore.  THEN I'll have the choice to either renew my subscription, or degrade to PS Elements.
I also wonder how long my subscription will be "affordable".  Right now, I think the 10/month is very acceptable.  But as I have the intention to live another 40 years ...

« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2014, 15:38 »
0
$567 for CS6 is about 2 to 3 years of the cloud. There are some tradeoffs with both, but I definitely think it is not very good advice to recommend CS6 over the cloud. If I was a student, I'd probably buy the cloud because it is a lot easier to come up with 20 bucks a month than $500+ all at once.

« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2014, 15:47 »
-1
The problem is if you only had the CC version and didn't own an older copy then you couldn't open your own files.  In five or ten years this will be true for almost everyone (unless you hold onto an older copy of PS forever as I intend to do).

IMO Photoshop is old top heavy code which replicates much of the pixel level functionality which today is included more efficiently in OS X and therefore iOS. Adobe must know that they are only going to squeeze so much more useful life out of it before tablet operating systems completely replace the old file system model.

I believe that the next 5 - 10 years will see us mostly transition from traditional computers to Android and iOS devices. iOS is built on OS X and already includes the graphics frameworks necessary for pixel and video manipulation. (iOS also currently has very much better development tools than Android).

I think that OS X will gradually become more like iOS. And iOS will become somewhat more functional. Until they merge. They are basically the same OS underneath anyhow. Microsoft will be doing cloud services. Android will be for everyone else. IMO.

A decade after that, who knows ?

ETA: the point being that Photoshop does not have a 5-10 year future IMO - it will be replaced with something built from the ground up.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 17:25 by bunhill »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2014, 17:01 »
0
"If a designer ever stops paying the monthly fee to Adobe for whatever reason, after a 30 day grace period they will not be able to open or edit any previously created work."
This isn't completely true, it depends what format you save your work in. E.g. it's true if you save photos out as .psds, but not e.g. .tif or .jpg.
Think about it - it can be necesary in any situation for someone owning photoshop to be able to share files with people who use other software, or who want to put photos into Word, put them on Flickr, Fb or an agency as jpgs etc.
(Not defending the subscription model, but this is one of the commonest inaccuracies.)
There are all sorts of things you can't save any other way than in a PSD file. JPEG is fine for an output format, but that's really it. If you have a multi-layer 16 bit PSD file loaded with adjustment layers or smart objects the only way to preserve that is a PSD file. Most of the other apps that can open PSD files can't handle layers or only handle some types of layers.
Hmmm, I haven't found anything I couldn't save in Tiff format, but there must be many things I haven't tried to do.

« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2014, 17:32 »
+1
Adobe desperately needs some serious competition.  Google bought Nik a while ago, I thought they might be planning to do something serious with that group, besides just more [email protected] "filters" for phone photos.


« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2014, 17:42 »
0
Google bought Nik a while ago, I thought they might be planning to do something serious with that group, besides just more [email protected] "filters" for phone photos.

Google is an advertising company. Anything else they do is incidental and collateral.  They have done a good job with Nik so far*. But I cannot work out why. I cannot see what it brings them. Perhaps they just wanted the team.

* although I do not like the automatic updating

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2014, 19:04 »
0
Maybe I'm missing something here but can you not buy a $99 license of Adobe Photoshop Elements, which is frequently discounted to half that price, and open PSDs? Or use an older copy of Photoshop?


 

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