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Author Topic: Petition against FT subs  (Read 10226 times)

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cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« on: June 09, 2008, 15:28 »
0
The French contributors are getting united to submit a petition against sub.

Could anyone translate the the following text in English so we can join them in fighting this evil sub model?  We would use only one text with French and English translation.

===================================================
A lattention de Messieurs
Guillaume Le Bleis, Directeur des oprations France
Chad Bridwell, Directeur des oprations US


Messieurs,

Nous nous permettons de prendre contact avec vous suite lannonce de la mise en place du nouveau dispositif de vente par abonnement.

Les nombreuses ractions suscites aussi bien au niveau des contributeurs US que Franais ne doivent pas vous avoir chappes.

La surprise est grande de part et dautre et de nombreux contributeurs et non des moindres- sont prts retirer leurs portfolios si aucune modification nest apporte dans les meilleurs dlais.

Au-del dun manque de communication vident entre Fotolia et ses contributeurs, il devient clair quun certain seuil de tolrance vient dtre dpass par des prix inadapts et par le manque de souplesse du dispositif en question.

Inadquation des prix abonnement :

Lintroduction de la formule abonnement et de ses prix au sein de la tarification globale de Fotolia apparat totalement inadapte. En effet, jusqu prsent, Fotolia sest distingue des autres microstocks par sa formule de classement des photographes avec la possibilit pour chacun deux daugmenter leur prix chaque palier de manire avoir une rtribution satisfaisante tout en maintenant un large panel dacheteurs intress par ce mode de fonctionnement.

Par ailleurs cela correspondait parfaitement la vision de la Direction de Fotolia qui affirmait par lintermdiaire de Chad Bridwell, Direction des oprations US, lors de la mise en place de la collection Infinite "...for example, a micro subscription model that pulls down prices to 25 cents an image, decreases the overall business and only provides short term sales benefits."

Nous sommes dsappoints prsent devant un tel dcalage entre la parole et laction

Autant lintroduction de la formule abonnement au sein dautres banques dimages des tarifs extrmement bas, ne gnre pas de dsquilibre du fait dune tarification globale elle aussi trs basse, autant lapplication dun tel dispositif au sein de Fotolia casse littralement la grille tarifaire applique jusquici, et ce principalement pour vos contributeurs prsentant des images en exclusivit Par ailleurs, le fait daccder jusquau format L pour la formule abonnement permet de couvrir une large part des besoins des acheteurs.

Autrement dit, il ny aura pratiquement plus aucun intrt pour lacheteur lambda et quel que soit son besoin quantitatif en images de ne pas opter pour labonnement. Dans ces conditions, pourquoi une telle formule ne devrait-elle intresser que de nouveaux acheteurs ?

Il va de soit, que les plus pnaliss par ce dispositif, seront ceux qui placent des images en exclusivit sur Fotolia tout en refusant pour des questions dthique de voir brader leur travail et de voir dnigrer linvestissement quils auront apport Fotolia.

La formule abonnement nest pas en soi rejeter mais dautres modalits peuvent tre envisages qui tiennent compte de la grille tarifaire de Fotolia, par exemple :
- maintenir les prix actuels avec un geste commercial de 10% ou 20% de rabais en fonction d'un abonnement mensuel ou annuel
- rduction de la taille maximum accessible par labonnement

Si aucun changement nest apport la suite de nos demandes, le risque est grand de voir une fuite des principaux contributeurs dus globalement par votre vision et votre stratgie commerciale fluctuantes Ainsi moyen et long terme, la qualit des images peut rgresser aussi vite qu'elle avait progress.

Manque de souplesse du dispositif :

La raction de beaucoup de vos principaux contributeurs US est d principalement au fait de limpossibilit pour les non-exclusifs dentre-eux de sortir de la formule abonnement et quil se retrouvent ainsi canibaliss (selon leur propres termes) par ce dispositif.

Dautres banques dimages proposant galement labonnement nimposent pas ce dispositif ses contributeurs mais leur laisse le libre choix dopter ou non pour cette formule.

Ce nest quavec cette souplesse de fonctionnement que Fotolia parviendra satisfaire ses contributeurs.

Non-valorisation des images en exclusivit :

A prsent, les images disponibles labonnement et celles de la collection Infinite sont mises en vidence par un symbole et une couleur qui les identifient.

Aucune mention ou symbole ne permet de diffrencier et dattirer lattention sur les images en exclusivit.

Nest-ce pas paradoxal, que les images exclusives soient le parent pauvre de Fotolia alors que ce sont elles qui font la diffrence avec les autres banques dimages ?

Nous demandons donc quil ny ait aucune diffrence de traitement au niveau du moteur de recherche entre les diffrents types dimages de la banque et une valorisation des images en exclusivit prsentes sur Fotolia.

Impact de la mise en place de labonnement :

Une information donne par lun de vos modrateurs sur le forum US se voulait rassurante :

I just want to re-assure you that after the first day of the Subscription, we have noticed that it represented less than 5% of purchases made. Our current customers have continued to purchase Credits for single downloads.
Although it is too early to give definite results, we can already see a trend which verifies our previous predictions; our subscription plan will attract new buyers. . In any case we shall continue to monitor it all very closely and will let you know more at the end of the week

Nous souhaiterions tous queffectivement ce nouveau dispositif nintresse que de nouveaux contributeurs, cependant daprs notre analyse et telle que la formule abonnement se prsente actuellement, cela nous parat hautement improbable et il devient urgent de modifier un certain nombre dlments afin de ne pas voir glisser les acheteurs dans leur large majorit vers labonnement
__________

En consquence, nous vous demandons de bien vouloir reconsidrer le dispositif mis en place pour quil corresponde aux attentes de vos contributeurs.

Pour rester dans le cadre dun change constructif, voici les diffrents lments que nous vous proposons :

- Revoir la tarification de labonnement la hausse pour que celle-ci devienne compatible avec la grille tarifaire existante de Fotolia

- Limiter la taille des images disponibles labonnement aux formats XS, S et M maximum.

- Donner la possibilit de choisir ou non loption abonnement pour les images non-exclusives

- Donner la possibilit de choisir ou non loption abonnement photo par photo

- Mettre en place un systme de valorisation des photos places en exclusivit (moteur de recherche, symbole, couleur.)

Nous vous remercions de lattention que vous nous accorderez en souhaitant avoir une rponse claire et prcise nos diffrentes propositions.

Trs cordialement,


helix7

« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2008, 16:02 »
0

Seems like a waste of time. Why should Fotolia (or anyone else) give in to a petition?

I'm all for fair pricing, fair contracts, etc. But I just don't see any possible good outcome here. They have every right to price images as they wish, create pricing packages like subscriptions, basically do whatever they want, since that is the nature of microstock. Why would Fotolia all of a sudden reverse their thinking? Look at it from their perspective. Do you really expect them to say, "Those contributors are right. We should abandon this new business model that would have made us lots more money. We didn't really want all that extra money anyway."



cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2008, 16:20 »
0

Seems like a waste of time. Why should Fotolia (or anyone else) give in to a petition?

I'm all for fair pricing, fair contracts, etc. But I just don't see any possible good outcome here. They have every right to price images as they wish, create pricing packages like subscriptions, basically do whatever they want, since that is the nature of microstock. Why would Fotolia all of a sudden reverse their thinking? Look at it from their perspective. Do you really expect them to say, "Those contributors are right. We should abandon this new business model that would have made us lots more money. We didn't really want all that extra money anyway."




To clarify for those of you who can't read French, this petition is not to request the removal of subscriptions, but to implement some critical changes.  So the last part reads:

"...
We are requesting that you :

- Increase the pricing model for subscription model to make it consistent with Fotolia traditional pricing model

- Limit download size to XS, S and M

- Give every one the option to opt-out

- Give the option to opt-in/out on a per picture basics
..."

And no they can't do whatever they want... Andres, Bobby and some top contributors along with lot of other contributors have stopped uploading new content to Fotolia.  A lot of French contributors that went exclusive with FT are now moving to other micros.  Fotolia would really be stupid not to listen to his contributors ;-)


« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2008, 16:33 »
0
I would sign petition for bringing back old search engine (before may 2008), I dont mind subscription (yeah they should put 0.3$ min). Search engine is real problem here.

« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2008, 16:36 »
0
A petition is a good idea if we all get behind but I can't see them limiting download size to XS, S and M.  Make it more realistic and it will stand a better chance.

« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 17:01 »
0
keep in mind this one important factor before you take any action:
Photographers are disposable, and can be replaced very easily.

What if any, are the consequences if FT fails, or refuses to negotiate?
How much time do they have to respond, if in fact they even acknowledge this petition at all?
How will you present this petition? How will photog's who wish to participate get their names on the petition?

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason


cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 17:07 »
0
keep in mind this one important factor before you take any action:
Photographers are disposable, and can be replaced very easily.

What if any, are the consequences if FT fails, or refuses to negotiate?
How much time do they have to respond, if in fact they even acknowledge this petition at all?
How will you present this petition? How will photog's who wish to participate get their names on the petition?

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason



Well of course FT can choose to just ignore it, but if there is a significant number of people signing it I would hope they would have the decency to implement at least an opt-out for everyone.

We were thinking to use a service such as ipetitions.com


jsnover

« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 17:15 »
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What got FT's attention was talking about stopping uploads. Are all those signing this petition still uploading? If so, I think they should consider how they are going to get FT's attention without any action.

« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 17:19 »
0
 ;D
Yes ! I think also those people, so well intentionned, should stop uploading to get Fotolia attention.

« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 17:21 »
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I would have to agree. The option to bow out gracefully from the sub's is an ideal solution for all the photographers.
However keep in mind that the pricing arrangements currently established are based on everyone participating.

You are forcing the management to restructure their business model, reset their
software variables and to perform other behind the scene hidden tasks.
In my years of playing in this game, this is a first time rebellion that has no equal.

I too am somewhat of a rebel, and admire your quest. Good luck.

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2008, 17:23 »
0
sorry no one will hear at your... thats business.. theire are enough photografers that will work for them... thats only my opinion

cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2008, 17:35 »
0
sorry no one will hear at your... thats business.. theire are enough photografers that will work for them... thats only my opinion

I'd have to disagree.  Fotolia is a French company and in France that's how we do business... everybody goes on strike until thing changes.  That's why we have strikes all year long :)

And they did a similar action after the V2 launch and Fotolia took into accounts many suggestions that were made at that time.

Also Fotolia has a large base of unique exclusive photographers because they are the only micro that let you keyword in your native language.  So for those who don't master english that was really appealing.  Now most of these photographers are very angry and already stopped uploading.  Some have even stopped their exclusivity to move there work with other micros.

This petition would just be a common place where everyone could agree that some changes need to happen.

And like Miz said what would be the worst that can happen?  Being ignored?
I think it's worth a shot, if we get a couple thousands signatures that will definitely have some weight.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 18:12 by cphoto »

« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2008, 17:39 »
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The only effective way to mend that is vote with your feet. Escape.

« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2008, 17:43 »
0
Here is something I did :
http://img28.xooimage.com/files/7/7/8/microstock-subscription-3fb61d.gif (updated)

It's not perfect but I tried this to compare.
What are your feelings ? Is Fotolia the worst ? for who ?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 18:35 by tilo »

« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008, 18:20 »
0
Yu can keyword too in your native language at istock, and disambiguated translation is excellent and effective.

sorry no one will hear at your... thats business.. theire are enough photografers that will work for them... thats only my opinion

I'd have to disagree.  Fotolia is a French company and in France that's how we do business... everybody goes on strike until thing changes.  That's why we have strikes all year long :)

And they did a similar action after the V2 launch and Fotolia took into accounts many suggestions that were made at that time.

Also Fotolia has a large base of unique exclusive photographers because they are the only micro that let you keyword in your native language.  So for those who don't master english that was really appealing.  Now most of these photographers are very angry and already stopped uploading.  Some have even stopped their exclusivity to move there work with other micros.

This petition would just be a common place where everyone could agree that some changes need to happen.

And like Miz said what would be the worst that can happen?  Being ignored?
I think it's worth a shot, if we get a couple thousands signatures that will definitely have some weight.

cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2008, 18:24 »
0
Here is something I did :
http://img22.xooimage.com/files/0/1/1/microstock-subscription-3fb35d.gif
It's not perfect but I tried this to compare.
What are your feelings ? Is Fotolia the worst ? for who ?


For sake of completeness you should also indicate which micro let you opt-in/out.

Also the SS US package is wrong, it is in fact
1 Month  $249 
3 Months  $709 
6 Months  $1349 
1 Year  $2559 

123 US package is also wrong, it is:
1 Month $199
3 Months $499
1 Year $1799

Crestock is a low perfomer, I would not even show it there (not a "big 6").
Snapvillage is even worst and they won't be around in one year from now, so you can remove them as well ;)

So yes FT is clearly the worst if you take into account that
1. It does not let you opt-out
2. Pictures sold does not count towards changing rank or getting more credit per sale like with DT.
3. Nobody will ever reach the $0.31 limit, not even Andres.  But reaching $0.38 with SS is not that difficult.

« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2008, 18:34 »
0
I was unable to get the us tarifs, from france, even when clicking us.
Updated here :
http://img28.xooimage.com/files/7/7/8/microstock-subscription-3fb61d.gif

« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2008, 18:46 »
0
Crestock is a low perfomer, I would not even show it there (not a "big 6").
Snapvillage is even worst and they won't be around in one year from now, so you can remove them as well ;)
This was made to compare subscription models that are existing, not to compare sites that sell or don't.
The limit on Fotolia is $0.32, and I put $0.31 to be more realist.

I think subscription is the worst, everywhere. But no way to blame Fotolia more than others.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 19:08 by tilo »

vonkara

« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2008, 18:48 »
0
I would sign petition for bringing back old search engine (before may 2008), I dont mind subscription (yeah they should put 0.3$ min). Search engine is real problem here.
I agree whit that. As an agency you can't let your main search engine don't even work correctly whitout doing anything and they don't care about it. (for those seeing a drop)

cphoto

  • CreativeShot.com
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2008, 20:41 »
0
Crestock is a low perfomer, I would not even show it there (not a "big 6").
Snapvillage is even worst and they won't be around in one year from now, so you can remove them as well ;)
This was made to compare subscription models that are existing, not to compare sites that sell or don't.
The limit on Fotolia is $0.32, and I put $0.31 to be more realist.

I think subscription is the worst, everywhere. But no way to blame Fotolia more than others.

I agree that subscription is bad, everywhere.
But, Fotolia is the micro who implemented it with the less respect for its contributor

1.  Announced in a newsletter that most of us don't even subscribe to, and implemented a few days after.
2.  For an average contributor like me (800 pics) FT does have the lowest royalty ( I get .38 with SS, .36 with 123, .30 with DT, .30 with StockXpert and .27 at FT).  All agencies are bringing prices up, FT does the opposite.  If FT takes buyer away from SS, I'm losing .11 per sales, which is almost 40% less
3.  FT is the only one that does not let you opt-out

4.  the subscription roll-out completely broke the search engine...

so if you look at everything yes FT has the most naive subscription model.

On top of that FT management said a couple of months ago:
"...for example, a micro subscription model that pulls down prices to 25 cents an image, decreases the overall business and only provides short term sales benefits." Chad Bridwell, Director operations, Dec 2007.


That really makes them look stupid today


jsnover

« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2008, 22:44 »
0
I think subscription is the worst, everywhere. But no way to blame Fotolia more than others.

I think I can "blame" FT for having a really contributor-unfriendly plan, but also for promoting itself as having:

"The lowest image prices in the world"

That's on their list of benefits if you click "Learn more" from the front page.

Competing on price just drags us all down - and their commissions really aren't that great on the credit sales any more either.

« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2008, 02:17 »
0

2.  For an average contributor like me (800 pics) FT does have the lowest royalty ( I get .38 with SS, .36 with 123, .30 with DT, .30 with StockXpert and .27 at FT).


For me the lowest royalty is 0,20. That is what I have been paid for some sales at IS

« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2008, 02:51 »
0
"Oh, by the way, am I alone here in hating the French?" Al Bundy 1992

« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2008, 03:23 »
0
I think I can "blame" FT for having a really contributor-unfriendly plan, but also for promoting itself as having:

"The lowest image prices in the world"

That's on their list of benefits if you click "Learn more" from the front page.

Competing on price just drags us all down - and their commissions really aren't that great on the credit sales any more either.


I agree with you jsnover, for all these points.

Marketing make them say they are the "lowest price", and they are not !

I think this petition relates to Fotolia exclusives, as cphoto mentionned, so I personnaly don't feel concerned, because I never choose to get the benefits of exclusivity there before, even never played a bad game, breaking the rules by putting exclusive pictures everywhere elsewhere (explanations here). But I can understand that this is a big change for them.

For your information, this petition is initiated by Fotolia's forum moderator(s).
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 03:55 by tilo »

« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2008, 06:40 »
0
If FT takes buyer away from SS, I'm losing .11 per sales, which is almost 40% less
If FT takes buyer away from SS, I keep nearly the same 0.21 per sale on both (being bronze on FT). Even more at FT with 0.2158 compared to 0.2110 on SS.
Plus : there is a positive side making people leave the monster SS to FT, where they can buy both with credits and subscriptions.
Plus : Fotolia's royalties don't fall with the dollar.

3.  FT is the only one that does not let you opt-out
Hem, where is the button at DT ?

4.  the subscription roll-out completely broke the search engine...
This is a question of point of view. Before, only the first seven keywords were active for contributors under silver. Now it works for all.
It sounds like good news for me, because that was inequitable in a bad way before the changes, and something never seen elsewhere.
I think that Fotolia is now opened for new talents  ;)

On top of that FT management said a couple of months ago:
"...for example, a micro subscription model that pulls down prices to 25 cents an image, decreases the overall business and only provides short term sales benefits." Chad Bridwell, Director operations, Dec 2007.

That really makes them look stupid today
What is really stupid to me is to complain of a subscription system somewhere, and in the same time feed the SS monster...
The only way to kill the subs-system is to stop submitting everywhere where there is that offer. We are all individuals, and this will never happen in a global way because if you do, many others won't, thinking they will sell even more...
They changed their direction, nothing stupid here, but disappointing. They are into business, that's all.


 

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