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Author Topic: Sharpening and Noise Reduction  (Read 5734 times)

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CD123

« on: May 20, 2012, 15:56 »
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If you have an image which both needs some sharpening and noise reduction, which one do you prefer to do first or do you do noise reduction before and after sharpening?

If sharpening before noise reduction, you actually may increase the noise, making it more difficult to remove but if you first do noise reduction then sharpening sometimes creates its own noise / or "harsh"/rough pixel clusters, which requires a bit of softening through noise reduction.   :-\   


drugal

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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 17:16 »
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Do both selectively - masking.

« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 18:43 »
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I'd just shrink the image, assuming it was big enough. It achieves both objectives quickly without degrading the quality. I haven't used NR for about 5 years. Mind you I very rarely shoot above ISO 100 or undertake long exposures.

« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 19:10 »
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I can't imagine a scenario where you have part of in image that needs both - unless you're trying to get an ISO 3200 image suitable for stock in which case do noise reduction and downsize; forget the sharpening.

I don't think either one of these operations should be done without a mask - for stock or any other situation where someone will look at the 100% image. Given that, the order is not important.

lisafx

« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 19:55 »
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I try to shoot without any noise at all.  If there's some minor noise, I will do some noise reduction in Lightroom during the RAW conversion process.  If applied with a light touch, a sharp image will retain most of its sharpness. 

I haven't really found any way to sharpen in PS without some artifacts being introduced.   As a result, the unsharp pictures I have usually never see the light of day. 

CD123

« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 23:24 »
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Thank you very much for all the advice. Maybe I am too critical of what might be considered as noise by the agencies and through may own actions actually create undesired results. Appreciate your feedback very much!

lagereek

« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2012, 01:37 »
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I always shoot without any sharpening or NR, they both cause artifacts, haze, etc. and are responsible for I would say 50% of all rejections. Always try and get it right in camera, even lowering contrast a bit.

CarlssonInc

« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2012, 02:01 »
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I only use a little bit of input sharpening in Lightroom as the first step in my RAW processing. The setting depends on the type of image (see below) - never had any problems with it and it adds just that last little bit. The settings are based on recommendations by both Scott Kelby and Martin Evening.

Obviously there shouldn't be any noise to speak of when shooting for stock, but if there is (grab shot or similar) it is dealt with selectively (not the entire image) or down-sizing the image.

PEOPLE/FACES
Amount: 35
Radius: 1,2
Detail: 20
Masking: 70

SCENIC:
Amount: 40
Radius: 0,8
Detail: 50
Masking: 0

ALL OTHER TYPES (STANDARD)
Amount: 40
Radius: 1,0
Detail: 35
Masking: 35

« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2012, 02:14 »
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I shoot Raw , use PS CS5 for slight sharpening and TopazDenoise (photoshop plugin) for noise reduction. Considering that i use a Canon 7D i must apply some noise reduction to all my files. TopazDenoise works very, very well.

rubyroo

« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2012, 06:16 »
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I try to shoot without any noise at all.  If there's some minor noise, I will do some noise reduction in Lightroom during the RAW conversion process.  If applied with a light touch, a sharp image will retain most of its sharpness. 

I haven't really found any way to sharpen in PS without some artifacts being introduced.   As a result, the unsharp pictures I have usually never see the light of day. 

Ditto.  I never sharpen images.  I just shoot as sharply as possibly at a 100 or 200 iso, then add a tiny noise reduction tweak in Lightroom if necessary.

CD123

« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2012, 07:25 »
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I just got the Canon EOS 500D. I use a CS4/5 filter called Perfectly Clear, but think the setting on sharpening was too strong, creating undesirable artifacts. In your experience, should this camera's images be acceptable without noise reduction?

« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2012, 09:59 »
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If you shoot wildlife, you cannot always use low ISO settings.
So my workflow normally begins with noise reduction (partially, with Dfine from Niksoftware), then some input sharpening (Sharpener Pro, also from Niksoftware). All done on the 16 bit Tiff created out of the Raw file.
I used to have different NR software, but this one now is really brilliant.
And after upgrading from the Canon 30d (which started to be troublesome above 400 ISO and almost unusable for stock at 800) to a Mark IV I now don't hesitate at all shooting at 1600 ISO or even higher.

This one was shot at ISO 2000 on a rainy, cloudy day.

« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2012, 10:42 »
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I just got the Canon EOS 500D. I use a CS4/5 filter called Perfectly Clear, but think the setting on sharpening was too strong, creating undesirable artifacts. In your experience, should this camera's images be acceptable without noise reduction?

I have a 500D and you should be able to use it without sharpening or NR depending on the situation.  Right now I mostly use it for isolations in my studio.  At ISO 100, manual focusing and with decent lighting I never sharpen or use NR.  Outside I find that the Canon Rebels often have noise in the sky, even at ISO 100 and good lighting, but it is easily cleaned up with some light NR. I usually use Noiseware or sometimes Topaz Denoise, and only on the parts that need it.  If you're commonly having to sharpen or denoise the whole image then it's not the camera - it's either technique or poor lenses.  If you're using the kit lens then toss that sucker and get some good glass - it's hard to get sharp images if your lens isn't up to the task.  If you're just getting noise in the sky then that is normal, for me at least, and that includes all of the digital rebels including the 500D and 600D.

CD123

« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2012, 10:50 »
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Very nice picture Dirk! Thank you for the product specific feedback sgoodwin4813, you all helped me a lot. From now on I will look to the skies ;D

RacePhoto

« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2012, 16:21 »
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Very nice picture Dirk! Thank you for the product specific feedback sgoodwin4813, you all helped me a lot. From now on I will look to the skies ;D

Sharpening the noise in the sky will cause problems. That's why someone else says mask or selective. I don't do noise reduction, shoot low ISO. If I find noise in the sky, you would want to soften, not sharpen, so for the subject you want to go one direction, for the sky the opposite.

Selective, but generally none at all. Reduce the image size is the easy way, and since this is micro, that's what I do.

Nice that you got the camera upgrade that you were looking forward to!

CD123

« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 16:30 »
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Hi Racy. No I was referring to sgoodwin4813 who mentioned the possibility of some noise being visible in the sky portion of photos with this model. Yes, thanks, I am enjoying my new toy tremendously! Now I can return to photography properly in the digital age and I do not have to be the silhouette king any more  ;D
Got a bundle deal with 75-300mm lens included.


 

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