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Author Topic: Crazy number of thieves at Etsy  (Read 1956 times)

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« on: May 23, 2021, 04:30 »
+6
Gosh. What can I say? Today I just reported at least 20 listings that took my vector and sell at Etsy. The worst part is that these thieves always take the best seller.

From my rough calculation, I think I lost at least thousands of dollar from these.

Simply browsing through the portfolio at Etsy, I think that 95% of the works are stolen and these shops sell thousand and thousand of sales. You can check their number there.

These piracy need to stop :(


« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2021, 07:40 »
0
I used to find hundreds of my works on there whenever I searched. I reported DMCA'd as many as I could find for a few months and now rarely if ever find abything. I think there a re a few people/ groups responsible for the majority of these huge portfolios featuring stolen vectors. It becomes too much hassle for them if you keep up with the reports. I know that a few of us working as a team got some of the biggest ports shut down a while ago and would repeat each time they reappeared.

« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2021, 09:48 »
0
I thought of using this service from https://www.protectmywork.com/ to protect my work.

I think it might be easier to report to Etsy and close them by registering my work there. The price is consider affordable at least.

What I am afraid is it doesn't work. Has any of you have experience about copyrighting your work?

« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2021, 10:48 »
+2
I just sent email today to copyright lawyer from my country who works on provision.

Every time I report they just remove portfolio without any compensation to real author, me.

Etsy also made money from someone else theft so they are kind of cooperate in this action

I will let you know what I got


Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2021, 12:16 »
0
I just sent email today to copyright lawyer from my country who works on provision.

Every time I report they just remove portfolio without any compensation to real author, me.

Etsy also made money from someone else theft so they are kind of cooperate in this action

I will let you know what I got

Etsy does nothing and if you complain enough, they will shut down your account. They just want the listing fees. Look at the "rare" coins which are just obvious fraud. Etsy does nothing

« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2021, 17:44 »
+2
I just sent email today to copyright lawyer from my country who works on provision.

Every time I report they just remove portfolio without any compensation to real author, me.

Etsy also made money from someone else theft so they are kind of cooperate in this action

I will let you know what I got

Etsy does nothing and if you complain enough, they will shut down your account. They just want the listing fees. Look at the "rare" coins which are just obvious fraud. Etsy does nothing

Yes, but I don't care what they do or don't. I don't have account there. Just few people there selling my work from stock sites. I will inform if i made any progress with copyright lawyer.

« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021, 09:29 »
+3
In case anyone wants to go the DMCA route here's the form:

https://www.etsy.com/legal/ip/report

You can report multiple listings in one go

« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2021, 20:28 »
+3
I have reported 30-40 listings in the past 2 days.

Gosh, it's maddening. But the reporting is quite easy and straight forward.

« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2021, 03:07 »
0
I have reported 30-40 listings in the past 2 days.

Gosh, it's maddening. But the reporting is quite easy and straight forward.

I really did find that after doing that a few times over several months my worked stopped cropping up there. Good luck with it.

« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2021, 11:30 »
0
I found violation of my work here.
I reported, and they acted deleting the files but...

The sellers are allowed to continue without any issues... only files reported are deleted.

https://www.etsy.com/fr/shop/Designesque (86 678 files sold!!!)
https://www.etsy.com/fr/shop/ywestberg

« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2021, 12:27 »
+5
I found violation of my work here.
I reported, and they acted deleting the files but...

The sellers are allowed to continue without any issues... only files reported are deleted.

https://www.etsy.com/fr/shop/Designesque (86 678 files sold!!!)
https://www.etsy.com/fr/shop/ywestberg
They need several strikes against the account before they delete it. If you see other people's work let them know so they can report also.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2021, 10:42 »
0
I found violation of my work here.
I reported, and they acted deleting the files but...

The sellers are allowed to continue without any issues... only files reported are deleted.

https://www.etsy.com/fr/shop/Designesque (86 678 files sold!!!)
https://www.etsy.com/fr/shop/ywestberg
They need several strikes against the account before they delete it. If you see other people's work let them know so they can report also.

Oh a good reason for all of us to keep checking and reporting.

Yes, but I don't care what they do or don't. I don't have account there. Just few people there selling my work from stock sites. I will inform if i made any progress with copyright lawyer.

Sorry I thought you had both. Good luck getting some action against the thieves.

Personally Etsy can delete my account, they are useless, besides the image misuse and thievery, they have no monitoring for accuracy or lies or misrepresenting items for sale. Back to, Etsy makes their money on charging for listings, the rest is just a scam to make people think they can make money from their personal work. Like Microstock, a very small number do earn, the majority sell nothing and make no return on their efforts.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2021, 11:01 »
0
I found violation of my work here.
I reported, and they acted deleting the files but...

The sellers are allowed to continue without any issues... only files reported are deleted.

https://www.etsy.com/fr/shop/Designesque (86 678 files sold!!!)


87420 Sales now and I can only guess, but over 10,000 stolen clipart images. 20c listing fee that auto renews would be $2,000 each period. Sales $2.80 Etsy takes 5%. In round numbers, each sale makes $2.40 but of course some never sell. 87,420 x $2.40 = $209,808 (minus fees which I can't estimate accurately) 20c per item every four months.

Maybe I should go into the clipart business?


« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2021, 10:52 »
+1
This is so true.

I filed DMCA reports for over 200 listings of my photos. Etsy removed them pretty fast.

Moreover, before that, I even asked some thieves about their licenses to sell.

Me: Hi, I am the author of this photo. Can you please let me know what kind of license you have to sell prints of it?

Thief1: Hello, I am selling it for personal use, as a download. I bought it from the Adobe Stock website.

Me: it doesn't matter. According to Adobe licensing, you may not:

Distribute the stand-alone file.
Create merchandise, templates, or other products for resale or distribution where the primary value of the product is associated with the asset itself. For example, you can't use the asset to create a poster, t-shirt, or coffee mug that someone would buy specifically because of the asset printed on it.


Thief1: Ok, I will remove it then...

or:

Me: Hi, I am the author of this photo. Can you please let me know what kind of license you have to sell prints of it?

Honest Thief: Hi,

The correct one as far as I know.

I am not at work at the moment so would have to check when I am back.

I'll take it down in the meantime until I can confirm. Don't think we've actually sold it.

Kind Regards
Steve


Me: Please check. I doubt that you have the right to sell prints. [... mention same Adobe licensing rules, as an example ...]

Honest Thief: Understood. We don't use adobe images to source the imagery though which is confusing. I'll have to check

Me: [... list 43 additional examples of photos stolen from me available for sale on his gallery...]

Honest Thief
: They will be off within 24 hours. I am sorry I am a little in shock the amount you started sending through. If I remember right, we bought these from a bundle advertised online. Website like "by the people" or "for the people" or something, I can't remember exactly. It was a zip download saying full seller resell rights included. I do remember at the time thinking they were brilliant and a bargain. I am beginning to regret that now. If we have made a mistake, I sincerely apologise.

Kind Regards
Steve


Me: Ok. You should understand that by buying and reselling stolen photos, you are not only competing with the agency (empowered by me to sell licenses of my work) but also with myself since I'm also selling my prints. You can be in deep legal trouble if you continue to do it with other stolen photos obtained from such shady websites. I would delete them all before other authors take notice.

Honest Thief
: I completely agree and understand. But we didnt know they were without the rights. As far as we knew we paid correctly for them. The website looked legit and not shady at the time. Ill try and check where exactly we sourced them from. I genuinely try my hardest to avoid this sort of thing.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 11:04 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2021, 11:24 »
0
Here is the list of my thieves, so far...

WallRepublic
EliteCanvasArt
ColorInkArtStudio
ArtDigitalStore
AnnyPrints
Wall26Store
ExtraLargeWallDecor
LuckyCanvasStore
CanvasGalery
LWhomedecor
MaxWallArt
WallpaperHomeArt
CanvasStoreStudio
CoolWallsStore
LovelyHomeUA
BoldBlocDesignLtd
WoodLikeLifeShop
vivicanvas
DreamFamilyArt
WallArtStudio365
ColorInkArtStudio
CanvasPrintShop
WorldWallArtShop
LabsCanvas
JackiePrint
CanvasArtBay
ContempCanvas
WallArtCanvasShop
ArtPrintShopV
CanvasPrintingShop
FramedArtCo
CoastalBeachStudio
MishMashCoStore
4loftwalldecor
WallsByMe
LabsCanvas
....
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:18 by Zero Talent »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2021, 14:39 »
0
I hate to ask this, but don't some agencies allow people to license and then sell prints? Adobe? Not that I have anything that people want to steal, but just asking.

If there are any, which ones?



« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2021, 14:55 »
0
.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 20:11 by Zero Talent »


« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2021, 17:36 »
0
Maybe @MatHayward can clarify the Extended License is grating Etsy sellers the right to sell prints.

« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2021, 18:06 »
0
Maybe @MatHayward can clarify the Extended License is grating Etsy sellers the right to sell prints.

Please refer to the license details page here for allowable use with an Extended license: https://stock.adobe.com/license-terms#extendedLicenses

thank you,

Mat

« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2021, 18:36 »
0
Maybe @MatHayward can clarify the Extended License is grating Etsy sellers the right to sell prints.

Please refer to the license details page here for allowable use with an Extended license: https://stock.adobe.com/license-terms#extendedLicenses

thank you,

Mat

So just to be clear on how to read it: it says that

With an Enhanced license, you may not:

Distribute the stand-alone file.
Create merchandise, templates, or other products for resale or distribution where the primary value of the product is associated with the asset itself. For example, you can't use the asset to create a poster, t-shirt, or coffee mug that someone would buy specifically because of the asset printed on it.


and

With an Extended license, you may:

Use the asset with all the rights granted in the Standard license.
Reproduce the asset beyond the 500,000 copy/viewer restriction.
Create merchandise or products for resale or distribution where the main value of the product is associated with the asset itself, such as a coffee mug or t-shirt.


With an Extended license, you may not:
Distribute the stand-alone file.


So the poster is given as an example in the enhanced license, but it's not included in the example of the extended license.

Mat, it will be nice to get a simple Yes or No: is the Extended license granting Etsy sellers the right to sell posters?

« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2021, 01:57 »
0
And ... what do you think about this one ? They indicate Shutterstock or Fotolia/Adobe Stock on the pages, but I don't think it is possible to sell these backgrounds with digital download on other shops ...

https://www.etsy.com/shop/MixPixBox (> 40.000 sales !)

And it also has a shop on Creative Market

https://creativemarket.com/MixPixBox


Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2021, 10:57 »
0

With an Extended license, you may not:
Distribute the stand-alone file.[/i]

So the poster is given as an example in the enhanced license, but it's not included in the example of the extended license.

(Extended May:) Create merchandise or products for resale or distribution where the main value of the product is associated with the asset itself, such as a coffee mug or t-shirt.

Mat, it will be nice to get a simple Yes or No: is the Extended license granting Etsy sellers the right to sell posters?

Or photo prints? Which I guess the art/image is the value, while a mug or T-shirt, the view is, someone is paying for the product.

I'm back to asking, overall, what agencies allow someone to buy a license, subscription, basic, single or some other like extended and then sell prints? I can understand, none allow redistribution. So Etsy sales in the form of a download would be illegal in all cases, except by the original artist.


« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2021, 16:44 »
+3
Update:

Out of the several hundreds of listings reported during the past couple of days, I receive counter-notices from 2 sellers, for 10 listings in total.

If I don't reply to the counter-notice, Etsy will automatically re-instate the listing after 10 days.

One of the sellers claims to have an extended license, but neither I nor Adobe can locate it.

The other has genuine extended licenses from DT (I verified them) and from 123RF.

He mentioned to me that he is happy to see that I took action since his business is also impacted by so many competing thieves.
He even offered to help me track them down.

I have a backlog of 40+ listings and I'll continue to report them.

Edit: here is what that seller wrote:

Regarding the copyright infringement issue, i have read this article that sums it up pretty much : https://alj.artrepreneur.com/etsy-copyright-infringement/

We are aware this is an issue, and are happy to join forces to fight it. To be fair, I have reached out to photographers  before (Sean Pavone), letting them know their photographs are most likely stolen without permission or proper license. So far, without much result. it seems like some photographers just accept it the way it is.Which is not okay and frustrating.

As stated earlier, I'm very happy you are hunting these sellers. And, are happy to join forces. Within the next upcoming days, I will submit you the cases on Etsy that I found.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 20:07 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2021, 15:23 »
0
Most of the PODs top sellers are pirates and to top it off there's the whole industry of derivative works where they slightly edit the images or the vector design in order to keep a low profile, finally you've the usual cases of plagiarism and cheap imitations and let's not forget the harder to find cases of "appropriative art" and the unfair use of the "fair use" which only stands in the USA and nowhere else.

There's absolutely nothing we can do, it's literally the Wild West and it can only get worse, just as next to nothing is being done against fakes and counterfait items sold in stores worldwide.

While for serious crimes you've nowhere to hide, for digital piracy you're totally at the mercy of these gangs of thieves operating outside the West and good luck suing somebody in India or China.

This is the result of the ongoing globalization.

« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2021, 16:49 »
+2
Most of the PODs top sellers are pirates and to top it off there's the whole industry of derivative works where they slightly edit the images or the vector design in order to keep a low profile, finally you've the usual cases of plagiarism and cheap imitations and let's not forget the harder to find cases of "appropriative art" and the unfair use of the "fair use" which only stands in the USA and nowhere else.

There's absolutely nothing we can do, it's literally the Wild West and it can only get worse, just as next to nothing is being done against fakes and counterfait items sold in stores worldwide.

While for serious crimes you've nowhere to hide, for digital piracy you're totally at the mercy of these gangs of thieves operating outside the West and good luck suing somebody in India or China.

This is the result of the ongoing globalization.

It has nothing to do with big words like "globalization". Globalization is the reason why we can sell our stuff across the world, and not just in the local shop, and the reason we can afford to buy cameras and other equipment we use to generate content.

Anyway, for now, Etsy is free from those several hundreds of listings that illegaly used my work.

I also encourage everybody to file those complaints since those thieves will be banned from selling if they receive multiple DMCA take-down requests.

It may even be advisable to file individual requests when the same seller has multiple listings using your work because they will add up. I didn't do that anymore because there were way too many. Doing them in bulk for multiple sellers and multiple listings was significantly faster.

Here is what one of these illegal sellers just messaged me:

We did not know that these are your pictures.
Please contact us directly if there is anything else that needs to be deleted.
We received a second infringement from etsy, and this reflects very negative on our small family business.

Thank you for your understanding


I can't empathize with that since these thieves are also impacting our small business.

So these DMCA reports will have an effect if enough people will take action to protect their stuff.

Just do it! (instead of just complaining ;))
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 16:58 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2021, 16:57 »
0
.

« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2021, 17:35 »
+1
It has nothing to do with big words like "globalization". Globalization is the reason why we can sell our stuff across the world, and not just in the local shop, and the reason we can afford to buy cameras and other equipment we use to generate content.

Anyway, for now, Etsy is free from those several hundreds of listings that illegaly used my work.

I also encourage everybody to file those complaints since those thieves will be banned from selling if they receive multiple DMCA take-down requests.

It may even be advisable to file individual requests when the same seller has multiple listings using your work because they will add up. I didn't do that anymore because there were way too many. Doing them in bulk for multiple sellers and multiple listings was significantly faster.

Here is what one of these illegal sellers just messaged me:

We did not know that these are your pictures.
Please contact us directly if there is anything else that needs to be deleted.
We received a second infringement from etsy, and this reflects very negative on our small family business.

Thank you for your understanding


I can't empathize with that since these thieves are also impacting our small business.

So these DMCA reports will have an effect if enough people will take action to protect their stuff.

Just do it! (instead of just complaining ;))

I appreciate your optimism and i wish you good luck, sorry if i was a bit pessimistic.

My new composites will never be sold on stock agencies or as a digital download so hopefully nobody will/could steal the hi-res images and resell them as POD/merch items, at best they could grab some 1000px preview file in my portfolio or whatever, sure they could resize it in many ways or take a photo of a physical print but why bother with me when there are billions of stock images around ?

My feeling is we reached the point where anything digital will be pirated, no matter what, so our only defence left is to exclusively sell physical goods.

I've nothing against Etsy but it's an american company, i can't sue them easily from europe while they can easily sell pirated items worldwide
with the excuse of the US' "Safe Harbor".
The US also enjoy the "fair use" concept, unheard of in the rest of the world.

I agree we should not go into politics but all these huge marketplaces are operating outside our laws because they're protected by US laws and because all the other countries are not moving a finger to fix the problem and never will, if even the EU is ok with this situation who will ever defend our rights ?

At this point it's legal or barely legal to steal pretty much anything digital, resell it, repackage it, rebranding it, and if you get caught you can get away saying sorry just as the thieves on Etsy said to you because they know the whole situation is a joke as long as they operate outside the West they'll never pay a fine or suffer any punishment.

Sending DMCAs will certainly help your situation but overall will not change much, still better than nothing.


« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2021, 22:26 »
+1
I disagree with you @stocksaurus.

Evil prevail because good men like us do nothing. I have been joining forces to file copyright infringement of my artworks (Etsy, Shutterstock, etc), and I have successfully closed down many stores and portfolios. It does work.

Do take 1 day (or a few hours) in a month to browse through and see if your works are stolen at Etsy. I feel so good after filing these complains and the infringements were taken down the next day. It gives me peace and justice.

I know many of you prefer to close-one-eye on this matter because it felt troublesome or fear of being revenged. But you are being violated. You need to do something about it. Don't let them getaway this easily.

« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2021, 02:29 »
+2
Vector artists also, please do a quick search for "svg" and "vector" on Etsy and get these dirtbags making thousands off your work shut down. They bundle hundreds of stolen vectors together and sell the files for a couple of dollars, which they can do because they havent had to put in the thousands of hours to produce the work.

« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2021, 03:50 »
0
Vector artists also, please do a quick search for "svg" and "vector" on Etsy and get these dirtbags making thousands off your work shut down. They bundle hundreds of stolen vectors together and sell the files for a couple of dollars, which they can do because they havent had to put in the thousands of hours to produce the work.

Banning Printify, Printful, and the other "integrations" would be a good start, literally nobody is checking the ownership/license of the files going thru them, a thief could even claim to own a "Unsplash License" or having a paid membership in similar sites granting use for pseudo "CC0 images" lifted as usual from Flickr or torrent packs.



To top if off, one of the sites they recommend is called "Death to the stock photo".
See how they reason, it must be funny for them.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 03:55 by Stocksaurus »

« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2021, 04:13 »
0
I disagree with you @stocksaurus.

Evil prevail because good men like us do nothing. I have been joining forces to file copyright infringement of my artworks (Etsy, Shutterstock, etc), and I have successfully closed down many stores and portfolios. It does work.

Do take 1 day (or a few hours) in a month to browse through and see if your works are stolen at Etsy. I feel so good after filing these complains and the infringements were taken down the next day. It gives me peace and justice.

I know many of you prefer to close-one-eye on this matter because it felt troublesome or fear of being revenged. But you are being violated. You need to do something about it. Don't let them getaway this easily.

We are good men but the international laws do nothing to help us and protect us, and that's why there's a neverending debate about how to properly tax the american BigTech companies doing business in europe and paying almost no tax at all, Amazon, Google, Apple, Ebay, Facebook, Twitter, and many more and this is a real problem if you consider their monopolistic position, the only country that had the balls to ban Google and Facebook was China, go figure.

If the big guys are untouchable what can we expect to be made minor players like Etsy ?
And yet Etsy is europe's nr.1 craft/handmade marketplace, is operating in EU territory, grabbing fees by european sellers, collecting EU VAT on their buyers., all while allowing the sale of counterfeit items and stolen photos/designs laughing all the way to their (offshore) bank.

Takiong 1 day a month to fight all this is the only thing we can do, as you do, but realistically it's not going to change anything, even proper stock agencies have been caught selling stolen items no matter if they ask IDs and model releases, there's always a way to get in.



« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2021, 09:30 »
+2
I disagree with you @stocksaurus.

Evil prevail because good men like us do nothing. I have been joining forces to file copyright infringement of my artworks (Etsy, Shutterstock, etc), and I have successfully closed down many stores and portfolios. It does work.

Do take 1 day (or a few hours) in a month to browse through and see if your works are stolen at Etsy. I feel so good after filing these complains and the infringements were taken down the next day. It gives me peace and justice.

I know many of you prefer to close-one-eye on this matter because it felt troublesome or fear of being revenged. But you are being violated. You need to do something about it. Don't let them getaway this easily.

We are good men but the international laws do nothing to help us and protect us, and that's why there's a neverending debate about how to properly tax the american BigTech companies doing business in europe and paying almost no tax at all, Amazon, Google, Apple, Ebay, Facebook, Twitter, and many more and this is a real problem if you consider their monopolistic position, the only country that had the balls to ban Google and Facebook was China, go figure.

If the big guys are untouchable what can we expect to be made minor players like Etsy ?
And yet Etsy is europe's nr.1 craft/handmade marketplace, is operating in EU territory, grabbing fees by european sellers, collecting EU VAT on their buyers., all while allowing the sale of counterfeit items and stolen photos/designs laughing all the way to their (offshore) bank.

Takiong 1 day a month to fight all this is the only thing we can do, as you do, but realistically it's not going to change anything, even proper stock agencies have been caught selling stolen items no matter if they ask IDs and model releases, there's always a way to get in.

You are again using big words pushing your ideology, in a case that has nothing to do with it.

There is nothing wrong with not paying taxes, as long as the law is respected.
I am pretty certain that a very large majority among us would do exactly that, paying as little taxes as possible, when the law allows it.
If you don't like the laws, vote for politicians willing to change them and blame the politicians who made such laws.

You can't blame those who respect the laws. You can't wish to see their freedom to do business taken away, only because they are successful.

On the other hand, you can clearly act against the thieves from Etsy who are breaking the law and stealing from you.
Just do it, instead of using defeatism and ideological sophisms to justify your lack of action.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 09:38 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2021, 10:16 »
0
Just do it, instead of using defeatism and ideological sophisms to justify your lack of action.

I'm all for low taxation, law, and order.
And that means counterfaiting/stealing/robbing photos or designs sold in PODs should be seen as a proper crime rather than a minor nuisance.

Again, i don't want to go into politics but as the topic evolved into DMCAs let me underline that if Etsy is allowed to run their business with total impunity is exactly because in the US they apply "Safe Harbor" provisions to the DMCA freeing the platform (Etsy) of any legal responsability towards their sellers userbase.

In other words we have all these nice IP/copyright laws but once a thief is caught the law can easily become unenforceable and unaffordable unless there's a lot of money at stake which is never the case with the Etsy/Ebay/Amazon crooks selling items for as low as 20-30 bucks.

I'm not defeatist, just being realist.
I'm also not blaming you for filing DMCAs, i'm just saying that because of the actual legal situation it's a total Wild West for content creators and there's no reason to expect any improvement unless the ISPs/platform will be legally liable for what is sold on their marketplaces, just as they would with a normal brick/mortar shop.

« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2021, 10:26 »
+2
I understand your point of view. But please, we do what we can do, and filing infringement is the least we can do.

After taking down 30-40 listings that is infringing my bestseller, I now start seeing people buying from me again. This is a win. The reward from doing this is money, justice, peace of mind, and most of all... satisfaction.

« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2021, 10:46 »
+2
Another PM I just received, I can't empathize with:

I am writing to you because Etsy took down one of the listings from my store due to copyright infringement.

 I want to personally apologize to you for this. It was not my intention to have your photo without your permission or rights, I had no idea that this image belonged to you and thought it was a public image, as you can see we dont sell these type of photos we sell more of street art and graphic designs. I am very, very sorry.

We are a very small business without employees, it is just me. I run everything from my parents home and we have never sold your actual print it was in our store and I didnt even notice until I got the email from Etsy.

 Etsy is my familys main source of income, and I would never do anything intentionally to affect this or other artists as it is what allows me to provide for my family. We dont even have it that art listed on our website, it was a mistake.

We will not be listing this image or any city images as we only work with free stock images for street art. I apologize once again, as an artist I understand how frustrating it can be for people to try to sell your art.

I am very sorry, it wont happen again. 


« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2021, 12:24 »
+1

there's no reason to expect any improvement unless the ISPs/platform will be legally liable for what is sold on their marketplaces, just as they would with a normal brick/mortar shop.

While I also believe that Etsy could do more to maintain a good reputation and protect other honest sellers from unfair cheap stolen goods competition, your analogy is not so straightforward.
The equivalent of the brick-and-mortar shop you mentioned is not Etsy, but the seller using Etsy.

You can't blame the postal office for carrying packages with stolen goods, but you can blame the thieves using the postal services to ship stolen goods.
You can't blame the paper manufacturer for the content of newspapers printed on their paper.
You can't blame the wireless carrier for carrying calls made by criminals.

Having said that, I agree that Etsy could be more proactive in making sure that the users of its platform are respecting the laws.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 13:24 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2021, 14:26 »
0

there's no reason to expect any improvement unless the ISPs/platform will be legally liable for what is sold on their marketplaces, just as they would with a normal brick/mortar shop.

While I also believe that Etsy could do more to maintain a good reputation and protect other honest sellers from unfair cheap stolen goods competition, your analogy is not so straightforward.
The equivalent of the brick-and-mortar shop you mentioned is not Etsy, but the seller using Etsy.

You can't blame the postal office for carrying packages with stolen goods, but you can blame the thieves using the postal services to ship stolen goods.
You can't blame the paper manufacturer for the content of newspapers printed on their paper.
You can't blame the wireless carrier for carrying calls made by criminals.

Having said that, I agree that Etsy could be more proactive in making sure that the users of its platform are respecting the laws.

Yes, the seller is the problem here, but there's no political will to change anything about it, so far only China and few others took a protectionist stance against some foreign BigTech corporations.

Soft crimes like copyright infringement are seen as a nuisance, but try doing some hard crime like selling drugs or explosives on etsy/ebay/amazon and the cops will knock at your door the next day.

Problem is, POD items are too cheap to bother our governments and nobody has any respect for creatives and artists in general, piracy is so widespread nobody would care if we end up under a bridge and some would cheer at the prospect of us being forced to get a "real job".

The only factor that could damage Etsy is a serious loss of reputation, their buyers must realize that Etsy is barely one step above Ebay and act accordingly.



« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2021, 14:32 »
0
Another PM I just received, I can't empathize with:

I am very sorry, it wont happen again. 

Good.
At least he was polite.

What makes me mad is we now have millions of sellers worldwide who can't draw, paint, photograph, design, edit, invent, and no matter what, somebody convinced them that in 2021 you don't need to invest years to master a craft anymore, all you need is a laptop and stolen digital items to resell.

Some of them are even very successful and yes indeed they could feed their whole family with Etsy alone if they live in Karachi or Saigon, good luck telling them about copyright infringement, they must feel like they're genius and we're all idiots.


« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2021, 14:37 »
0
This is a win. The reward from doing this is money, justice, peace of mind, and most of all... satisfaction.

I'm happy for you !

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2021, 14:49 »
+1
Vector artists also, please do a quick search for "svg" and "vector" on Etsy and get these dirtbags making thousands off your work shut down. They bundle hundreds of stolen vectors together and sell the files for a couple of dollars, which they can do because they havent had to put in the thousands of hours to produce the work.

This brings me to ask, how do people find their own works, without going through everything SVG and Vector? Or is that how you do it.

I don't think the proper term for the protection of websites is safe harbor and how they pay taxes or what anyone's political views are, has nothing to do with the issue either.

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act has been interpreted to mean that operators of Internet services are not "publishers" per the letter of the law. This means that unlike publishers, site owners are not legally liable for the words of third parties who use their services. Likewise sale or trading sites, like Etsy, eBay, Amazon, and many more, including the Microstock agencies, are not responsible for what the users put up on the site, if it is stolen or misrepresented. They do have a responsibility to monitor and correct illegal use, or issues with the laws, but the site is not liable.

So back to my question. How do I find these people on Etsy, do I have to go through every listing?

« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2021, 15:54 »
0
I don't think the proper term for the protection of websites is safe harbor and how they pay taxes or what anyone's political views are, has nothing to do with the issue either.

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act has been interpreted to mean that operators of Internet services are not "publishers" per the letter of the law. This means that unlike publishers, site owners are not legally liable for the words of third parties who use their services. Likewise sale or trading sites, like Etsy, eBay, Amazon, and many more, including the Microstock agencies, are not responsible for what the users put up on the site, if it is stolen or misrepresented. They do have a responsibility to monitor and correct illegal use, or issues with the laws, but the site is not liable.

"Passed on October 12, 1998, by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended Title 17 of the United States Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of the providers of online services for copyright infringement by their users.

The DMCA's principal innovation in the field of copyright is the exemption from direct and indirect liability of Internet service providers and other intermediaries. This exemption was adopted by the European Union in the Electronic Commerce Directive 2000. The Information Society Directive 2001 implemented the 1996 WIPO Copyright Treaty in the EU. "


« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2021, 16:01 »
0
Yes, the seller is the problem here, but there's no political will to change anything about it, so far only China and few others took a protectionist stance against some foreign BigTech corporations.


...and that's bad.

I don't see why you wish for some authoritarian government to limit freedoms, by allowing only their preferred companies to operate, by limiting the choices their citizens could have, by eliminating the competition and making things more expensive and worse for everybody (except for their cronies, of course)...


Again, you bring ideological arguments in a discussion that has nothing to do with ideology.

It's about ordinary theft, nothing more.


« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 17:16 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2021, 17:20 »
0
Yes, the seller is the problem here, but there's no political will to change anything about it, so far only China and few others took a protectionist stance against some foreign BigTech corporations.


...and that's bad.

I don't see why you wish for some authoritarian government to limit freedoms, by allowing only their preferred companies to operate, by limiting the choices their citizens could have, by eliminating the competition and making things more expensive and worse for everybody...


Again, you bring ideological arguments in a discussion that has nothing to do with ideology.

It's about ordinary theft, nothing more.

Globalization and open doors among western countries is mutually beneficial for all, the problem here is opening the doors to the millions of digital thieves operating in the third world.

Yes, their freedom to upload 100K stolen images and designs to Etsy or Ebay must be stopped because apart for being illegal it's also totally unfair to us, not only the PODs don't move a finger against piracy but they also allow these gangs to rank higher in their search, to flood any keyword with their products and therefore to gain a commercial advantage.

A real competition is good for all, but the kind of unfair competition we see now will kill the POD industry for the small honest and law-abiding players.

So, it's not ordinary theft, that would be true with our local common thieves, here instead we're witnessing the direct result of political decisions imposed from the USA to all of us. 


« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2021, 17:26 »
+1
.... and giving China as an example to be followed, when we discuss copyright protection is very precious!

Common man!  ::)

Do what is in your power to do, instead of sitting on your hands, blaming the world...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 17:30 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2021, 21:19 »
+1
So back to my question. How do I find these people on Etsy, do I have to go through every listing?

Etsy marketplace is not flooded like stock agencies. Usually a simple keyword only have a few pages of listings. So, for my case, I try to search for the keyword of my bestseller and browse through the listings.

« Reply #45 on: Yesterday at 07:18 »
0
.... and giving China as an example to be followed, when we discuss copyright protection is very precious!

I mentioned China just because they defend their national interests.
Allowing american multinationals to operate in their country and in their markets and eventually reaching a monopoly status as they do in the West is obviously a loss for their national interests.

The US did the same with Huawei and other chinese manufacturers, they also banned several russian news site and TV channels, Trump even tried to ban TaoBao, Alibaba, and Baidu.

Last week Nigeria banned Twitter, see it's not hard to make things better when there's the political will.

The only companies really caring about copyright infringement are the RM stock agencies and art galleries, anything else is a joke.




« Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 09:57 »
0
.... and giving China as an example to be followed, when we discuss copyright protection is very precious!

I mentioned China just because they defend their national interests.
Allowing american multinationals to operate in their country and in their markets and eventually reaching a monopoly status as they do in the West is obviously a loss for their national interests.

The US did the same with Huawei and other chinese manufacturers, they also banned several russian news site and TV channels, Trump even tried to ban TaoBao, Alibaba, and Baidu.

Last week Nigeria banned Twitter, see it's not hard to make things better when there's the political will.

The only companies really caring about copyright infringement are the RM stock agencies and art galleries, anything else is a joke.

"National interest" is another big ideological word.

Rest assured that those politicians who claim to defend the "national interest" are not doing anything more than defending their own interests and their cronies'.
They only use big words like "national interest" to justify their grip on power and economy in front of gullible followers.

Allowing real competition to flourish is in the real interest of all individuals in a country.

And yes, unfortunately, even the US took action against its own citizens, by banning some companies to compete in the US market, or making it harder for some.
Trump excelled with this anti-economical policy hurting the American people. It's sad to see that (although to a lesser extent) even Biden continues some of them.

Anyway, are you are now giving Nigeria as an example to follow? Seriously? Banning Twitter because their president was criticized? That's for sure in the name of the "national interest", and clearly not in the personal interest of the Nigerian president!  ;)

Talking about ideological brainwashing!  ::)

Having said that, you are again blaming the world for your failures, expecting others to protect your interest, instead of taking action and just do it.

BTW, I just submitted a new DMCA report for another batch of 34 listings.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:09 by Zero Talent »


« Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 14:18 »
0
Talking about ideological brainwashing!  ::)

Having said that, you are again blaming the world for your failures, expecting others to protect your interest, instead of taking action and just do it.

BTW, I just submitted a new DMCA report for another batch of 34 listings.

To reach the point where we have a proper "real competition" you need to reach the point where we have clear simple and effective laws that make punishment quickly enforceable.
Either that or all you get is the actual Wild West scenario where the scammers are winning their low-risk/high-gain game.

Nigeria is a great and funny example, Trump should have done the same to set the example.
Yes of course it's in their national interest because form now on the other US multinationals will think twice before f-cking with the nigerian president and their local users will now be forced to move on a local social network, again to the benefit to their local economy, win-win scenario in my opinion.

Look, i fully support your DMCAs but the problem here is we can only stick to DMCAs and nothing else, it's an uphill battle, the governments don't care, the ISPs don't care, the platforms don't care, the banks don't care, even the buyers don't care.

Whenever you hear somebody lamenting that artists got scr-ewed again remember the DMCA has been designed exactly for this purpose, any kind of liability from the Platforms has been lifted and the gates have been flooded by worldwide sellers acting with almost total impunity.
Artists got scr-ewed already in pre-internet times, nothing new, but now we're really on a different level, if this trend keeps going on in a few years it will become impossible to live with your art alone or with freelancing in general.

« Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 17:47 »
0

Look, i fully support your DMCAs but the problem here is we can only stick to DMCAs and nothing else, it's an uphill battle, the governments don't care, the ISPs don't care, the platforms don't care, the banks don't care, even the buyers don't care.


Explaining even basic economics to people with preconceived notions is a futile exercise.

Therefore I am only asking (again) what are you doing about it, instead of this sterile bitching and moaning against private companies while praising authoritarian leaders and wannabe dictators?
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 19:48 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #49 on: Today at 03:18 »
0
Therefore I am only asking (again) what are you doing about it

Me ? I'm fully accepting the harsh reality of stock and PODs.

I'm improving my skills in order to produce expensive artsy products, i want to become a real artists selling in art galleries, micro/macro stock  doesn't make any financial sense anymore while prints/merch/PODs at least give me a lot of freedom especially on the pricing.

Anyone can shoot stock nowadays and that's why it's worth nothing, either we raise the bar or we go home.


 

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