MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Cultural Diversity, What is Needed in Imaging?  (Read 13749 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2009, 16:14 »
0
Hi Phil,

 Does your kid want a job as a producer  :) Thanks for that story you have a very bright child on your hands. I am sure the apple doesn't fall to far from the tree.

Best,
Jonathan


Squat

  • If you think you know, you know squat
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2009, 08:01 »
0
double post
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 10:30 by tan510jomast »

« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2009, 08:07 »
0
I think it's important to realize that most of us (working in the USA, for example) are not trying to simulate an group of a different ethnicity shot in another country by a photographer of a different ethnicity.  We are trying to make a melting pot of Americans.  If there is one of this ethnicity or one of that ethnicity in the group, it is unlikely all this concern about skin tone matters.

Squat

  • If you think you know, you know squat
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2009, 08:16 »
0
.. deleted..
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 16:12 by tan510jomast »

Squat

  • If you think you know, you know squat
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2009, 10:27 »
0
..
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 16:11 by tan510jomast »

« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2009, 13:58 »
0
Hi All,

 Cultural differences are still carried over here in the U.S. That is who I am shooting my multi cultural material for, the U.S. market. The cultural difference are very strong here in the U.S. you can do melting pot stuff and I think it is a good idea but their are a large numbers of image buyers advertising to ethnic buyers here in the U.S. and these buyers know the differences in their cultures. I'm Not focusing on sales in Asia although that doesn't hurt, I am looking to sell to the buyers in the U.S. and their need for true ethnic content. I am only repeating what Blend and Getty and Corbis all are saying and asking for.
 Example, If neither you or your models have never played golf I would not try to shoot it, the buyer would see right away that the shots are not real and your sales would be smaller than if you understand the details of your subject matter. From the way the model carries the bag on their shoulder to how they hold the club.
 Same thing rings true for ethnicities and there cultural differences. Just an observation, ya'll can shoot anything you like as long as it makes you happy. For me it only takes a bit of time these days to learn about different cultures on the internet and I find it fascinating as well as educational.

Best,
Jonathan.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 16:41 by Jonathan Ross »

Squat

  • If you think you know, you know squat
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2009, 15:21 »
0
removed
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 19:07 by tan510jomast »

« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2009, 15:54 »
0
Same thing rings true for ethnicities and there cultural differences. Just an observation, ya'll can shoot anything you like as long as it makes you happy. For me it only takes a bit of time these days to learn about different cultures on the internet and I find it fascinating as well as educational.

I doubt there's much to worry about when shooting two models having burgers at a table outside, and one of them happens to not be caucasian.

« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2009, 19:35 »
0
 Howdy, SJ

 Anything with good talent and well shot in stock will sell, I am looking for the largest number of buyers per image. I was trying to share the ethnic diversity side of the question which is what I thought the original post was about. Put a turtle with a hare and I am sure you have a strong concept without staying inside the same family. Nothing written in stone for stock, just sharing ideas and agency requests :)

Thanks,
Jonathan

puravida

  • diablo como vd
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2009, 20:00 »
0
Cultural diversity , if you've travelled extensive, is nothing more than a hyperbole. Whether it is in North America, or Britain, or the continent of Africa, or China.
I agree with the suggestion that one needs to be immersed directly to understand a culture. You don't get to know this simply by surfing the web. You may fake it to someone who has never left his own country, but your internet experience of being a cultural expert will be easily noticed by any globetrotter, from the travelling photojournalist to the budget student hiker.

There is one consistency regardless of culture, ie. the white skin is always the color preference. Whether it be Bollywood (white skinned from Bombay), Hong Kong or China  (white skinned Cantonese), Africa (lighter skin in preference to the darkest  from Senegal ) , Spanish be it from Latin America or Spain (white skin once again).

Is this up for contradiction from anyone here who has found this not to be true.
Well, I would be very surprised, if any of my peers, who  is either an intrepid traveller or one who has done any research , would disagree.

My point being, as much as the media or politicians try to bring about racial tolerance or multi-culturalism, it is merely a blatant white-wash (no pun intended) . How much of this light skin subtle prejudice is indeed due to conditioning. Very much so. Magazines mould the young minds, products like Barbie dolls, etc.. insidiously brainwash a child so much that sadly enough, many dark skin beauties even come to actually believe they are not very good looking and wish they could bleach their skin.

Well, someone who just passed on and who is an icon (no names mentioned) is a prime example of this disease that plagues our global society.

Cultural Diversity , you say?  Ha ! Don't make me laugh, pulllleeez !
To coin a very famous saying from Henry Ford , with slight change in reference to this topic:
You can have any colour you want, as long as it is ... WHITE !
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 20:03 by puravida »

« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2009, 21:48 »
0
Fine points. Harsh but true. And while we are talking about skin color, here's the irony to ponder. White people pay money to get sun baked, even going to tanning studio to look like the oriental , latino, and other dark skinned. The white kids dress and talk and walk like the black gangsta. White girls dress like Britney but look for black and coloured boyfriends to look cool.
Meanwhile, the orientals and other darker skin people, pay money to get their skin procelain, even bleach their lovely black or brown skin to look white.

We are never satisfied with what we are born with. Crazy lots us human beings, aren't we? 8)

« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2009, 22:17 »
0
Fine points. Harsh but true. And while we are talking about skin color, here's the irony to ponder. White people pay money to get sun baked, even going to tanning studio to look like the oriental , latino, and other dark skinned. The white kids dress and talk and walk like the black gangsta. White girls dress like Britney but look for black and coloured boyfriends to look cool.
Meanwhile, the orientals and other darker skin people, pay money to get their skin porcelain, even bleach their lovely black or brown skin to look white.

We are never satisfied with what we are born with. Crazy lots us human beings, aren't we? 8)

There is an old Hebrew saying: "Who is wealthy? He who is satisfied with what he has"
and its corollary: "Who seeks more than he needs hinders himself from enjoying what he has." 

The problem, if you want to call it that, is that humans always strive to have better, if not for themselves then for their children. This is what drives us to discover, to explore space, to invent new technologies etc, etc.
The sword cuts both ways. It makes us dissatisfied with what G_d gave us and at the same time drives us to make ourselves and our world a better place.

« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2009, 23:19 »
0
Hi Puravida,

 I couldn't agree more. That is why when we are shooting ethnicities that we are not clear on their customs and nature we have a person of that culture on set to keep it real as possible. Doing some internet education is also helpful to gain some insight but nothing like having the real thing there to help, or living in the country itself. My work shot in Europe is one example. Not only do the models fit because they are local but so does the surrounding environment and their habits and customs thanks to my local interpreter. Different from country to country, even different inside each country. Shoot in Eastern Germany then go shoot in Western Germany and that's just one example.
 Quite often the model of that culture can help if you are making a mistake, I always tell them " If we are doing something that doesn't make sense to your culture please speak up and let us know ". I know that the Japanese don't share food from chopsticks to chopsticks, it is considered very rude. I could easily envision a great romantic shot of two Japanese people sharing each others food across the table with their chopsticks and the buyer that knows their business would look at that and say what is going on in this photo. Just one small example from one culture, every culture has many of them. Don't underestimate your buyers knowledge.
 Even technical issues like shooting in a surgery room. There are so many rules to follow in there, you can't put your hands below a counter they must always stay on top so they stay clean at all times. You also never turn your back on the operating table when walking so all surgeons and support have their eyes on one another and there is no accidental bumping going on when someone is being worked on. These are just a couple of the details that will separate your work from the next guy as the competition grows at every level of stock.
 I love great feedback like what so many including Purivida have added to this topic and so many others on this site, this has been very educational. Even if your information goes completely against what I believe I love it! That is when I start to look at things from a different angle and gain more info and hopefully grow as a shooter as well as a person. I enjoy it so much more when people try and keep it educational for everyone with some data instead of just personal opinion based on nothing. Then we all grow and learn.

Good post thanks,
Jonathan

« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2009, 23:23 »
0
There is an old Hebrew saying: "Who is wealthy? He who is satisfied with what he has"
and its corollary: "Who seeks more than he needs hinders himself from enjoying what he has." 

The problem, if you want to call it that, is that humans always strive to have better, if not for themselves then for their children. This is what drives us to discover, to explore space, to invent new technologies etc, etc.
The sword cuts both ways. It makes us dissatisfied with what G_d gave us and at the same time drives us to make ourselves and our world a better place.


How profound. We've gone slightly OT but how profound !  One step forward two steps backwards.

Is anyone here old enough to remember when mainframe first came out? They told our elders that it would eventually do away with wasting paper so we won't need to have journals and ledgers. Even cutting our work days to 4 , or even 3 days a week.

By the time we progress to micro computers, we were making hardcopy backups every weekend, and we had to work 7 days a week - in at 8am out at 11pm, right through Christmas and New Year. Simply because our Data System needed to be revise, rewritten, tested and implement, continuously.

Then only a couple of years ago, one of my financier's specialist joked about how he has become so important to the company that he was given the prestigious blackberry . Her colleague laughed and said, "You mean we all became so important that we are demoted to become slaves to the organization . We report in 24 hours, and if they call us and we don't respond even if we are in the toilet, and they lose an investment , we take the blame. What a status symbol, huh?"

This is much like our top performers in micro stock: "You have all been promoted to be superstars and now we pay you a commission of 30 cents per download. Congratulations on making our company one of the best. "

Double edged sword, did you say?    It's gotten so out of hand, the only way to cope with this outrageousness is to laugh at it because complaining is only going to get us all a CVA or triple bypass .
As Bobby McFerrin said, "Don't worry be happy!" or better still, for the older crowd, "Let's go get stoned".

;D
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 23:31 by Perseus »

« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2009, 15:54 »
0
I know that the Japanese don't share food from chopsticks to chopsticks, it is considered very rude. I could easily envision a great romantic shot of two Japanese people sharing each others food across the table with their chopsticks and the buyer that knows their business would look at that and say what is going on in this photo. Just one small example from one culture, every culture has many of them. Don't underestimate your buyers knowledge.

Very interesting.  It's the kind of thing we would never imagine, small details that are part of each culture.

Squat

  • If you think you know, you know squat
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2009, 18:52 »
0
delete

« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 19:07 by tan510jomast »

« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2009, 12:08 »
0
 Hi All,

 Here is a great link on Facebook from Blend Images on cultural diversity and the Hispanic youth market. Follow Blend images at Facebook for more info to come.

http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=109929

Best,
Jonathan


« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2009, 13:03 »
0
Good read, JR.
Thanks!

« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2009, 13:12 »
0
I'll need to keep an eye on mediapost for further articles, but my takeaway from that is that Hispanic teens in the US are pretty much like any other teen.  Just Hispanic and large in number.

« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2009, 13:34 »
0
I'll need to keep an eye on mediapost for further articles, but my takeaway from that is that Hispanic teens in the US are pretty much like any other teen.  Just Hispanic and large in number.


And if you read the original article they do not really respond to advertising, or pay for anything online:

times online article

Quote
The world according to Matthew Robson aged 15 and a half
Radio: With online sites streaming music for free they do not bother, as services such as last.fm do this advert free and users can choose the songs they want instead of listening to what the radio presenter/DJ chooses

Newspapers: No teenager that I know of regularly reads a newspaper, as most do not have the time and cannot be bothered to read pages and pages of text while they could watch the news summarised on the internet or on TV

Internet: Facebook is the most common, with nearly everyone with an internet connection registered. On the other hand, teenagers do not use Twitter

Music: They are very reluctant to pay for it (most having never bought a CD) Teenagers from higher income families use iPods and those from lower income families use mobile phones

Directories: Real directories contain listings for builders and florists, which are services teenagers do not require. They can get the information free on the internet

Viral/Outdoor Marketing: Most teenagers enjoy and support viral marketing... Teenagers see adverts on websites (pop-ups, banner ads) as extremely annoying and pointless...they are portrayed in such a negative light that no one follows them.

Cinema: Teenagers visit the cinema more often when they are in the lower end of teendom but as they approach 15 they go to the cinema a lot less. This is because of the pricing; at 15 they have to pay the adult price. Also it is possible to buy a pirated DVD of the film at the time of release, and these cost much less than a cinema ticket

Mobile phones: The general view is that Sony Ericsson phones are superior, because of their long list of features, built-in Walkman capacity and value


And these are our future asset buyers  ???

If you want to target this market then it is Facebook, Teen mags and Mobile phones.

When I blogged that we need a plug-in to deliver $1 websized images to the browser, for young users to understand they need to pay for images must be done at the point of delivery!   ::)

David  ;D
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 13:54 by Adeptris »

« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2009, 14:14 »
0
Hi Nosoya,

Just some reading info to help think about the future of our industry and who will be spending money down the road, the info also helps to direct your concepts to the parents of these teens they are the ones spending the money now. Nothing set in stone here just info based on ethnic research as apposed to opinion. You are welcome.

Best,
Jonathan
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 14:16 by Jonathan Ross »

« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2009, 14:21 »
0
Hi Adeptris,

 Remember what it was like being a kid. We all thought we are invincible and had all the answers, the adults where useless in their old ways and archaic thinking. The article you posted was interesting but it is a story written from the perspective of one kid only. Not research done on stock buyers and what they are looking for. Very different subject. Thanks for the link it was interesting reading.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2009, 14:42 »
0
Jonathan has a great point. Besides, the marketing is often targeting the parents who have the money. For instance, if you can influence the parents with the concept of healthy eating, they would impose the products on the kids whether they like it or not.



Hi Adeptris,

 Remember what it was like being a kid. We all thought we are invincible and had all the answers, the adults where useless in their old ways and archaic thinking. The article you posted was interesting but it is a story written from the perspective of one kid only. Not research done on stock buyers and what they are looking for. Very different subject. Thanks for the link it was interesting reading.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2009, 15:06 »
0
Hi Adeptris,
The article you posted was interesting but it is a story written from the perspective of one kid only. Not research done on stock buyers and what they are looking for. Very different subject. Thanks for the link it was interesting reading.

Best,
Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,
The one kid as part of his internship collected and then presented his research based on his findings and feedback, Quote: "he explained that he was only relaying the daily conversations of the 200 teenagers in his year and thousands of others across the country", this is honest peer to peer thinking and not just selective marketing research done by adults for a specific industry as a questionnaire to un-interested youths.

My post was tongue in cheek, but the content does have a lot to ponder and has caused a lot of big companies to think about how to spend to reach this market both now and in the future, so that may affect the stock buyers and what they are looking for in the future, and I do understand that parents seeing nice clean living youths of their ethnic origins in marketing may buy into marketing concepts.

So we are right to keep taking the lifestyle images aimed at parents, but we also need to keep an open mind and research, so we can be aware when marketing methods might change, and where each new generation reaching the workplace will target spending of their disposable income.

I have four daughters and nine grandchildren, I gave up years ago buying what the advertisers said they would like, and now it is just a check book Christmas.

David  ;)  
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 15:22 by Adeptris »

« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2009, 16:02 »
0
This is also a light hearted post, talking of diversity, we have a large number of single parent families in the UK 25% compared to AUS 14% and USA 9%, many of these are wage earners and some single by choice or relationship breakdown, so not all families are the happy 2 + 2 family.

I have done a research exercise, scenario: 'as a buyer for a lone parent magazine I am writing a lifestyle article on parents cooking with their children'.
Research: searching for suitable images over on IS, for:
Mum and Daughter Cooking: 221
Mum and Son Cooking: 85
Dad and Daughter Cooking: 51
Dad and Son Cooking: 44

Conclusion:
From the returned images about only 10 - 20% would really match for a lone parent article, but Family Cooking returned 863 images, so it looks like as artists we still do not diversify enough and put a lot of content into our own comfort boxes, maybe when shooting family 2 + 2 add all 1 + 1 variations as well.

David  'Food for thought' ;D  
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 16:37 by Adeptris »


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
A Cultural Diversity Series

Started by Leo Blanchette iStockPhoto.com

2 Replies
1876 Views
Last post August 27, 2009, 23:23
by Leo Blanchette
0 Replies
1678 Views
Last post July 11, 2013, 03:09
by Monty-m-gue
2 Replies
1975 Views
Last post June 20, 2020, 10:30
by Uncle Pete
5 Replies
2131 Views
Last post June 22, 2020, 13:17
by oooo
65 Replies
3567 Views
Last post September 03, 2021, 10:57
by For Real

Sponsors

Mega Bundle of 5,900+ Professional Lightroom Presets

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors

3100 Posing Cards Bundle